Bush opens up wiretapping docs to House.
By on Jan 24th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Bush opens up wiretapping docs to House.
Ending “months of resistance,” President bush today “agreed to give House members access to secret documents about its warrantless wiretapping program” in an effort to provide immunity to telecoms:
The documents include the president’s authorization of warrantless wiretapping, Justice Department legal opinions going back to 2001, and the requests sent to the telecommunications companies asking for their assistance, said the official, who declined to be named because he is not authorized to speak to reporters.
Reps. Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) and Pete Hoekstra (R-MI) requested the documents in May, “saying they would not support telecom immunity without them.”
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Months of resistance? Try months of running the bank of paper shredders.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:52 pmPages of blacked-out text will prove their case.
/snark
January 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pmDoes anyone believe that bushco will actually produce the documents?This is just a ploy to get reid to give in on telecom imunity. After the fISA bill passes bush will renige saying since the telecoms have imunnity there is no reason to look at the docs. This hand has been played so many times.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pmGreat, now the Democrats will say Bush was finally nice to us, so we’ll pat him on the back too. Telecom Immunity here we come. What next? Senator Dodd will be censured?
January 24th, 2008 at 2:54 pmIf this doesn’t work, telecoms will resort to the “It looks as if consumers will have to pay more” sob story.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pmReps. Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) and Pete Hoekstra (R-MI) requested the documents in May, “saying they would not support telecom immunity without them.â€
Well, I hope they don’t vote for immunity even with them. Not after the testimony by the AT&T Technician who said that they started wiretapping Americans shortly after Bush took office, at the behest of the Bush Administration. If they do give immunity, it should state “immunity from prosecution for any assistance they gave to the Bush Administration AFTER 911″. There is no excuse for the telcoms cooperating with Bush before 911.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pmDoes anyone remember how Sen Roberts was going to investigate the bush whitehouse’s role in 9-11, after the election to insure that there was no politicalization of the process? After the 04 election Roberts decided to cancel the investigation because there was no reason to investigate since the election had already happened. This is the same game.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pmTook them seven months to produce the documents, so the committee should get around to approving telecom immunity in, say, seven years…
January 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pmQuick, invest in whiteout duct tape manufacturers…!
January 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pmDoes anyone believe that bushco will actually produce the documents?This is just a ploy to get reid to give in on telecom imunity.
Reid doesn’t need anything from Bush to give the telcoms immunity. He has already decided in that direction. Otherwise he would not have introduced the bill with immunity in the first place. There are two bills before the senate, one with immunity and one without. Reid chose to advance the bill with immunity. In my opinion, that makes him unfit for office and he should be kicked to the curb.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:58 pmOk, you have what they say are the documents.
Now you also have proof positive that they have broken the law with these documents.
So can you please impeach the War Criminal now?
Oh, not enough time and way too much trouble, ok, well just thought I would ask.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 24th, 2008 at 2:58 pmAnyone voting for immunity will be fired/voted out/ toast.
Bastard Blue-dogs, this means you. Dem party, your spinelessness makes me sick; pwned by the Telecoms and trying to bend over for a war criminal. Update that resume. Your lobbyist buddies will be scouting your next gig and will need a copy after you get dumped. Fire Pelosi and Reid and get the country back on track.
Update that resume. Your lobbyist buddies will be scouting your next gig and will need a copy.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:59 pmActually they go back to 2001 PRIOR TO 9/11.
THAT IS CRITICAL.
Bush used warrantless wiretapping to monitor the FBI’s efforts to track Bin Laden, and to SHUT DOWN “Able Danger” in order to enable 9/11 to happen.
Focus on the PRE 9/11 wiretapping and ask yourself why in the wide world of sports they put this practice into place BEFORE 9/11.
This is known as EVIDENCE OF FOREKNOWLEDGE AND PLANNING.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:00 pm“Every conversation monitored under Bush’s warrantless domestic surveillance program is a missed opportunity to get someone who is talking with terrorists off the streets and behind bars.
Why? Because evidence obtained by Bush’s warrantless domestic spying program is probably not admissible in court. Convictions obtained with evidence from this program may be overturned.â€
STOP RIGHT THERE! THINK.
Clearly the Bush Administration knew that to be true. So what EVIDENCE do you have that Bush actually wants potential terrorists prosecuted? How many terrorists have been CONVICTED AND SENTENCED since 9/11?
Do the math folks. Think like a criminal. The clearest explanation is often right under your nose. False flag terrorism is a TACTIC of the Mossad and the CIA. The terrorists are merely doing the bidding of this administration and their surrogates. Any actual TRIAL with TV CAMERAS and EVIDENCE would blow their entire operation.
If they really want to arrest AND CONVICT terrorists, they would absolutely follow the letter of the law. They CHOSE not to. Coincidence? NOT!
What more do you need to know?
http://www.countercurrents.org/usa-hassan050405.htm
Let’s start out with a recap of some highly disturbing events in this country, as reported by a mainstream newspaper on the United States in August of 2005:
http://www.timesherald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15114089&BRD=1672&PAG=461&dept_id=33380&rfi=6
Now can you help me out with a plausible explanation for this:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
And this official DEA report:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deareportisraelispying.html
January 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pmIf the congress persons are so retarded as to think they are getting the real documents, it will be another sad day. It is hard to look more offensive than the folks that you are supposed to oversee.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:03 pmIs there any duct tape on these documents? Or was the EPA hogging it all?
January 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pmhttp://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7127
The “Able Danger” data-mining operation that supposedly uncovered the New Jersey cell of the 9/11 plotters was – for some reason yet to be determined – blocked and prevented from apprehending key figures in the plot, according to the testimony of at least three people who have direct knowledge of this matter. Shea’s memo opens up a possibility that may relate to (and explain) the “Able Danger” blockage: was surveillance of Arab terrorist groups in the U.S. subcontracted out to the Israelis, with the knowledge and complicity of the CIA, so that “Able Danger” was considered poaching on the Israelis’ preserve? Shea cites a piece in The Forward that describes Israeli covert activities in the U.S. as a violation of “a secret gentleman’s agreement between the two countries,” and avers:
“The real question today, however, appears to be whether the ‘gentlemen’s agreement’ did indeed prevail here and, because we lacked adequate warning from our surrogates who were keeping the Arabs under surveillance, helped bring us to disaster.”
http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps
One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm. Comverse provides almost all the wiretapping equipment and software for U.S. law enforcement.
Custom computers and software made by Comverse are tied into the U.S. phone network in order to intercept, record and store wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators.
The penetration of Comverse reportedly allowed criminals to wiretap law enforcement communications in reverse and foil authorized wiretaps with advance warning. One major drug bust operation planned by the Los Angeles police was foiled by what now appear to be reverse wiretaps placed on law enforcement phones by the criminal spy ring.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml
January 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pmIsrael can wiretap every communication in the United States without a warrant. Bush is just jealous.
COMVERSE & KOBI ALEXANDER:
Kobi Alexander is the founder of the Israeli high-tech company Comverse and is wanted by the FBI for alleged financial wrongdoings. After fleeing the law in the US, Alexander was recently found and arrested in the African country of Namibia and has posted bail. He is awaiting extradition.
The U.S. government will send a request to Namibia next week for the extradition of Jacob “Kobi” Alexander, the former Comverse Technology Inc. chief executive officer wanted for securities fraud.
Alexander, 54, was freed Oct. 3 by a Namibian judge on $1.34 million bail.
The U.S. wants Alexander to face charges related to stock-option backdating, including conspiracy, securities fraud, making false filings to U.S. regulators and money laundering.
SO WHAT DID KOBI HAVE TO DO WITH WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING?
WHAT DID KOBI HAVE TO DO WITH 9/11?
ASK FOX NEWS:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
And this official DEA report:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deareportisraelispying.html
Kobi Alexander should be arrested and interrogated about his knowledge of the events of 9/11. His company acquired the other Mossad firm, Odigo, shortly after it was revealed that Odigo employees had been forewarned of the attacks on the World Trade Center.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:07 pmPTECH’s Kobi Alexander – 9/11 Kingpin.
His company “ODIGO” gave the early warning to Israeli Nationals on the morning of 9/11 to steer clear of the Twin Towers.
His other company PTECH developed software based on “PROMIS” which Cheney used to blind NORAD & the FAA on the morning of 9/11.
Alexander is said to have fled the country. It is claimed that he is in Namibia (of all places)
Oct. 23, 2006 13:14
US submits extradition request for Kobi Alexander
The United States submitted a request to Namibia on Monday for the extradition of fugitive Comverse CEO Ya’akov (Kobi) Alexander.
The request came four days before the official cutoff date for such an appeal. Namibia’s justice minister was expected to convene an emergency discussion on the extradition request on Tuesday.
Alexander, who was accused in a multimillion-dollar stock manipulating scheme, was released on bail earlier this month by a Namibian judge. The Namibian government said at the time that it opposed bail pending a formal extradition request from the US, according to Justice Ministry official Dennis Khama.
Earlier, US Attorney Roslynn Mauskopf said that she would seek Alexander’s swift extradition to face charges in federal court in Brooklyn.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193501620&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
HERE’S THE TRUTH:
ALEXANDER IS A MOSSAD OPERATIVE WHO WORKED HAND-IN-HAND WITH GHW BUSH AND CHENEY TO IMPLEMENT 9/11.
ALEXANDER IS ACUALLY ALREADY IN THE UNITED STATES (AND HAS BEEN FOR WEEKS) IN THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM.
WHY?
UNDER WHOSE CARE?
WHY IS THE US GOVERNMENT PROTECTING A MOSSAD AGENT HERE IN AMERICA IN THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM?
BECAUSE CHENEY DID 9/11.
ISRAEL’S MOSSAD HELPED.
AGENT CHERTOFF IS COVERING IT UP.
IMPEACH – HANG.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:08 pmUrban myth, my ass!
More proof of conspiracies
BY JOHN SUGG
Federal Justice Department flaks have denounced reports of a massive Israeli spy ring as an “urban myth” — despite solid reporting by Fox News…
60-page Drug Enforcement Administration document detailing the apparent spying by Israeli “art students” who tried to gain access to sensitive federal buildings, military bases and intelligence officials’ homes.
http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm
http://cryptome.org/fox-il-spy.htm
Lewinsky herself said that in March 1997, when she was with the president in his office, he told her he suspected that a foreign embassy had been tapping his line.
It’s going to be hard, however, to make Monica Lewinsky’s testimony that President Bill Clinton warned her that a foreign embassy was listening to their telephone sex go permanently down the memory hole. This is particularly true after the whole sordid Monica story hit the U.S. media fan just hours after then-Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu arrived in the U.S. national capital vowing “to set Washington on fire†back in 1998.
Now we know where he got the matches.
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/072000/0007043.html
Spies Tap Police and Government Phones
In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, the FBI has stumbled on the largest espionage ring ever discovered inside the United States. The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence services.
The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost all the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement.
The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps, authorized by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), appear to have been breached by organized crime units working inside Israel and the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad.
Global Spy and Crime Network
Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps
One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys.
U.S. National Security Compromised
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml
January 24th, 2008 at 3:10 pmDoesn’t matter – all the incriminating bits have been redacted. Besides, the Dems would have rolled over and caved regardless of the content.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:11 pmI think the real surprise is that it took the current regime this long to destroy/hide/alter the documents to reflect the party line…..
January 24th, 2008 at 3:11 pmIsraelis Hold Keys To
NSA, US Govt Computers
By Christopher Bollyn
American Free Press
7-4-6
The most critical computer and communication networks used by the U.S. government and military are secured by encryption software written by an Israeli “code breaker” tied to an Israeli state-run scientific institution.
The National Security Agency (NSA), the U.S. intelligence agency with the mandate to protect government and military computer networks and provide secure communications for all branches of the U.S. government uses security software written by an Israeli code breaker whose home office is located at the Weizmann Institute in Israel.
A Bedford, Massachusetts-based company called RSA Security, Inc. issued a press release on March 28, 2006, which revealed that the NSA would be using its security software:
“U.S. Department of Defense Agency Selects RSA Security Encryption Software” was the headline of the company’s press release which announced that the National Security Agency had selected its encryption software to be used in the agency’s “classified communications project.”
RSA stands for the names of the founders of the company: Ronald L. Rivest, Adi Shamir, and Leonard M. Adleman. Adi Shamir, the lead theoretician, is an Israeli citizen and a professor at the Weizmann Institute, a scientific institution tied to the Israeli defense establishment.
“My main area of research is cryptography — making and breaking codes,” Shamir’s webpage at the Weizmann Institute says. “It is motivated by the explosive growth of computer networks and wireless communication. Without cryptographic protection, confidential information can be exposed to eavesdroppers, modified by hackers, or forged by criminals.”
The NSA/Central Security Service defines itself as America’s cryptologic organization, which “coordinates, directs, and performs highly specialized activities to protect U.S. government information systems and produce foreign signals intelligence information.”
The fact that the federal intelligence agency responsible for protecting the most critical computer systems and communications networks used by all branches of the U.S. government and military is using Israeli-made encryption software should come as no surprise. The RSA press release is just the icing on the cake; the keys to the most critical computer networks in the United States have long been held in Israeli hands.
AFP inquired with the NSA about its use of Israeli-made security software for classified communications projects and asked why such outsourcing was not seen as a national security threat. Why is “America’s cryptologic organization” using Israeli encryption codes?
NSA spokesman Ken White said that the agency is “researching” the matter and would respond in the coming week.
American Free Press has previously revealed that scores of “security software” companies — spawned and funded by the Mossad, the Israeli military intelligence agency — have proliferated in the United States. The “security” software products of many of these usually short-lived Israeli-run companies have been integrated into the computer products which are provided to the U.S. government by leading suppliers such as Unisys.
Unisys integrated Israeli security software, provided by the Israel-based Check Point Software Technologies and Eurekify, into its own software, so that Israeli software, written by Mossad-linked companies, now “secures” the most sensitive computers in the U.S. government and commercial sector.
The Mossad-spawned computer security firms typically have a main office based in the U.S. while their research and development is done in Israel. The Mossad start-up firms usually have short lives before they are acquired for exaggerated sums of money by a larger company, enriching their Israeli owners in the process and integrating the Israeli directors and their Mossad-produced software into the parent company.
RSA, for example, an older security software company, acquired an Israeli-run security software company, named Cyota, at the end of 2005 for $145 million.
In January 2005, Cyota, “the leading provider of online security and anti-fraud solutions for financial institutions” had announced that “security expert” Amit Yoran, had joined the company’s board of directors. Prior to becoming a director at Cyota, Yoran, a 34-year old Israeli, had already been the national “Cyber Czar,” having served as director of the Department of Homeland Security’s National Cyber Security Division.
Yoran had been appointed “Cyber Czar” at age 32 by President George W. Bush in September 2003.
Before joining DHS, Yoran had been vice president for worldwide managed security services at Symantec. Prior to that, he had been the founder, president and CEO of Riptech, Inc., an information security management and monitoring firm, which Symantec acquired in 2002 for $145 million.
Yoran and his brother Naftali Elad Yoran are graduates of the U.S. Military Academy at Westpoint. Elad graduated in 1991 and Amit in 1993. Along with their brother Dov, the Yoran brothers are key players in the security software market. Amit has also held critical positions in the U.S. government overseeing computer security for the very systems that apparently failed on 9/11.
Before founding Riptech in 1998, Yoran directed the vulnerability-assessment program within the computer emergency response team at the US Department of Defense. Yoran previously served as an officer in the United States Air Force as the Director of Vulnerability Programs for the Department of Defense’s Computer Emergency Response Team and in support of the Assistant Secretary of Defense’s Office.
In June 2005, Yoran joined the board of directors of Guardium, Inc., another Mossad-spawned “provider of database security solutions” based in Waltham, Massachusetts.
Guardium is linked with Ptech, an apparent Mossad “cut out” computer security company linked with the 9/11 attacks.
Ptech, a computer software company in Quincy, Mass., was supposedly a small start-up company founded by a Lebanese Muslim and funded by a Saudi millionaire. Yet Ptech’s clients included all the key federal governmental agencies, including the U.S. Army, the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Naval Air Command, Congress, the Department of Energy, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Internal Revenue Service, NATO, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service and even the White House.
The marketing manager at Ptech, Inc. when the company started in the mid-1990s, however, was not a Muslim or an Arab, but an American Jewish lawyer named Michael S. Goff who had suddenly quit his law firm for no apparent reason and joined the Arab-run start-up company.
Goff was the company’s information systems manager and had single-handedly managed the company’s marketing and “all procurement” of software, systems and peripherals. He also trained the employees. Goff was obviously the key person at Ptech.
In the wake of 9/11, during the Citizens’ Commission hearings in New York, Indira Singh, a consultant who had worked on a Defense Advanced Research Project, pointed to Ptech and MITRE Corp. being involved in computer “interoperability issues” between the FAA and NORAD. At this time Ptech’s ties to Arabs was the focus, and Goff was out of the picture.
“Ptech was with MITRE Corporation in the basement of the FAA for two years prior to 9/11,” Singh said. “Their specific job is to look at interoperability issues the FAA had with NORAD and the Air Force in the case of an emergency. If anyone was in a position to know that the FAA — that there was a window of opportunity or to insert software or to change anything — it would have been Ptech along with MITRE.”
The Mossad-run Guardium company is linked with Ptech through Goff Communications, the Holliston, Mass.-based public relations firm previously run by Michael S. Goff and his wife Marcia, which represents Guardium. Since being exposed in AFP in 2005, however, Michael’s name no longer appears on the company website.
Photo: Amit Yoran, the Israeli “Cyber Security Czar” appointed by President George W. Bush in 2003. Yoran has held various positions since the 1990s in which he oversaw computer security for the Dept. of Defense computers.
Although he and his brother reportedly grew up in Pound Ridge, New York during the 1970s and 1980s, the heads of the Jewish community told AFP that they had never heard of him. One said that she had conducted a survey of the Jews living in the small village of Pound Ridge in the 1970s and she would have remembered if a wealthy Israeli family named Yoran had been found.
Why did the locals in Pound Ridge NOT remember the Yorans?
Probably because they were NOT in Pound Ridge – but in Israel. The Pound Ridge address was used to give the appearance that the Yorans were Americans. I spoke with Elad and he has a distinctive Israeli accent – not what you would expect for a guy who grew up in a posh Yankee village.
So who are the Yorans? Who are their parents and why did they come to the United States? To raise a couple high-level moles to infiltrate the most sensitive U.S. computer networks? How could they have lived for 20 years in Pound Ridge and NOT be remembered.
http://rense.com/general72/nss.htm
January 24th, 2008 at 3:12 pmChandra Levy and Monica Lewinsky – “Swallows†for Israel.
Isn’t it interesting that Lieberman’s name pops up in the case of two similar-looking tarts, who were “Honey Pots” (or “Swallows” – the term used to describe women in the employ of Israel whose job is to compromise US Officials) for Israel’s Mossad?
Note that his article dated less than TWO MONTHS PRIOR TO 9/11.
Police to return to parks in Levy case
Experts: Condit damaged own reputation
July 22, 2001 Posted: 6:07 PM EDT (2207 GMT)
Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Connecticut, said it wouldn’t be productive to focus on Condit’s conduct. In 1998, Lieberman was the first prominent Democrat to criticize Clinton for his affair with Monica Lewinsky.
Lieberman said the two matters are different and he declined to say whether Condit should resign, as two Republican lawmakers have said.
“The Chandra Levy case is a missing persons case. And I think we all ought to let the law-enforcement authorities focus on finding Chandra Levy and relieving the terrible trauma and nightmare that her family and friends have gone through,” Lieberman told Fox News Sunday. “And when that is over, politicians can begin to speak out.”
Saturday, a spokeswoman for Vice President Dick Cheney, said Cheney met with Condit around the same time Levy was logging off her computer in her apartment May 1.
Juleanna Glover Weiss said the meeting happened between 12:30 p.m. and 12:50 p.m. in Cheney’s office in the House of Representatives. The meeting was “at Condit’s request,” she said, and included Cheney and some of Cheney’s staff discussing the California energy crisis.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/07/21/missing.intern/index.html
CHENEY ORDERED THE HIT TO PROTECT THE 9/11 OPERATION?
January 24th, 2008 at 3:13 pmNothing like an avalanche of plungerspam to shut a thread down.
May I suggest a marketing class, so you’d learn how to effectively deliver a message to an audience?
January 24th, 2008 at 3:34 pmThere are countless lurkers coming to TP specifically for (the extensive) plunger posts.
Comment by sjc001 — January 24, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
And your evidence for this is…?
January 24th, 2008 at 3:59 pmSome prefer the details and not just synopsis. If it is too much for you, simply skip over them. There are countless lurkers coming to TP specifically for (the extensive) plunger posts.
Comment by sjc001 — January 24, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
Really? If they’re lurkers, how do you know they’re countless? Or any at all?
If plunger really has a huge audience like that, why not help him start his own blog where they could all hang out reading his commentary?
You can get a blog up and running in less than an hour.
January 24th, 2008 at 4:00 pmThe documents include the president’s authorization of warrantless wiretapping, Justice Department legal opinions going back to 2001, and the requests sent to the telecommunications companies asking for their assistance, said the official, who declined to be named because he is not authorized to speak to reporters.
Well, that effectively moots the faux argument that the telcos couldn’t “defend” themselves because they were not allowed to talk about what they did or didn’t do….
Cheers,
January 24th, 2008 at 4:01 pmThe whole point of getting the documents was to look to see whether telecom immunity was deserved and whether the surveillances were justified and could stand up to some “necessity” type argument.
We need to see the documentation on what was done, and what was accomplished, before deciding if the warrantless wiretapping was justified … and can be justified as a “necessary” exigency … in the future.
Cheers,
January 24th, 2008 at 4:05 pmsorry, I’m all PLUNGERED out, I agree with most of what he says but this is to much…
January 24th, 2008 at 4:17 pm#17 plunger:
Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps
One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm. Comverse provides almost all the wiretapping equipment and software for U.S. law enforcement.
Sorry, this isn’t true. Most switch manufacturers do their own in-house implementation of the actual targeting and tapping capability. Control of the wiretaps is done by an “administrative function” administered by the service provider (or service bureau). This equipment may be provided by either the switch manufacturers or third-party vendors such as Comverse (and others).
Cheers,
January 24th, 2008 at 4:22 pmI believe this is again, just for show.
The Dems are in on this from the get-go.
Next it will be:
“Listen-up citizens . . Your highly respected President has given us some documents and in return we’re going to grant immunity.”
The actual documents don’t even have to change hands.
All we get is what they say they’ve done, not necessarily what they have actually done.
All b.s. I tell ya.
January 24th, 2008 at 4:28 pmsjc001, if you’ve read my previous plunger related posts, I do have lots of respect for his research, but in his zeal to spread the word, he doesn’t seem to realize that many of us have read the same 42, 000 words at least twenty times. He needs a better marketing strategy if he wants to be an effective communicator. That’s the point I was trying to make.
January 24th, 2008 at 5:03 pmGuess Rayes and Hoekstra didn’t say which “May”?? WTF?? After 8 months of expunging and sanitizing, nothing the prez provides now will be the “real deal”. Fuggitaboutit!
January 24th, 2008 at 6:02 pmWhat we’re sadly discovering is that the ENTIRE government, including Congress, is “in on it” – the screwjob to the people. That’s why Reid and Pelosi lied to us and made promises they had no intention of keeping. They’re all “in on it”.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:04 pmZuch: Cite your sources for debunking, please or skedaddle. Why should anyone believe you when you use loose generalities and zilch links?? Methinks you’re just a “debunking troll”.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:06 pmZuch: You’re obviously not familiar with constitutional law and the laws of the united states. They clearly read that there is absolutely no provision of immunity when asked to break an existing law; unlike a presidential “pardon” (I.e. Libby), a sitting president cannot make a promise of no retribution for asking you to break the law. That’s why it’s law.
Secondly, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever for a wiretap to begin which is not on record as either being “pre or post warrant”. The pres has the right to begin a wiretap without warrant but within 72 hours must present it to FISA and secure the document.
Thirdly, this massive national wiretapping of american citizens, which Bush overtly denied repeatedly in news conferences (remember that lie???) is patently and totally ILLEGAL. Bush screwed up, got telecoms to collude with him on the promise of illegitimate immunity, and now is covering his own ass. That’s the nut of the rest of his presidency: CYA all the way and kick anyone in the way to the curb. After all, it may mean prison time.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:10 pmNixon wiretaped one building, folks and we pitched his sorry ass out of the white house – how can we continue to allow this massive degree of criminal activity to continue? How many lies will we tolerate from this charlatan? One lie and he should have been history long ago. Where are our balls, country?
January 24th, 2008 at 6:12 pmAs for the telecoms who “aided and abetted” this illegal activity with some faux promise of immunity, I say, TS – bad decision/ horrendous judgment. They’ve violated our right to privacy and should now be punished accordingly. If they have to fold up their tents, so be it. Errors in judgment and the ship sinks.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:13 pmVeritas:
Keep up the good work.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:31 pm#37 Veritas:
Zuch: Cite your sources for debunking, please or skedaddle.
I know quite a bit about the business, you might say. Plunger thinks the “Jewish” Comverse is some big evil. Not so, although they may well be Mossad-connected. They’re not the exclusive players for CALEA equiment; check out the likes of Verint and SS8 (and the recently mentioned Narus). Not to mention, Nortel and Alcatel/Lucent build CALEA tap capability (the “acquisition function” or “AF”) right into their switches, and Ericsson wants to do the whole shebang (AF, DF, etc.) themselves. Similarly for Nokia and Siemens, the “AF” is in their switches (and that’s kind of how it has to be; getting at the wiretap information w/o access to the guts of the switch is difficult both technically and logistically). For IP snoops, Cisco does their own internal “taps” (although it can be controlled over a network connection through the Cisco SII functionality by a “MF”/”DF”).
It’s simply not true that Comverse has things wrapped up.
As for RSA encryptation, the algorithms are basically “shareware” by now (and used, for instance, in PGP open-source product). Anyone can look at the algorithms as see if there’s some secret “trap-door” that that nefarious Jew Adi Shamir might have snuck in, that siphons off all the information to the Mossad.
Now, that’s not to say that Israel (and the Mossad) haven’t tried to penetrate whatever security they could (and I’m pretty sure that both the U.S. and Russia would do and have done the same), or put in trap-doors or trojans into things.
If you read the web, you’ll see claims (which I personally think preposterous) that the NSA or CIA managed to pass Intel 8085 mask sets to the Russians /w some supposed back-door or “time-bomb” inserted which supposedly caused the Russians to use these mask sets, put these processors into pipeline equipment on the trans-Siberian pipeline, and cause these chips to go bonkers and cause a pressure surge that caused the pipeline to rupture … causing the crash of the Soviet economy, the subsequent fall of the Berlin Wall, Gorby to invent the word “perestroika”, and Britney Spears to forgo underpants. All nonsense, of course, and no serious engineer would believe this preposterous scheme for a second.
Intelligence agencies aren’t super-human. See, e.g. the failure to decode the phone call warning of 9/11. See, e.g., just the plain ol’ intelligence snafus of 9/11 and the Iraq War (and believe me, the Mossad did no better than we did for the most part).
The Mossad is pretty good as they go, but I think it wrong to piss your pants about them …. and even more wrong to get into stuff verging on outright anti-Semitism here. I don’t like the policies of Likud, and I don’t like the policies of Israel over the decades very much. I think that the U.S. should have given the Jews a “homeland” after WWII; could have given them ten times as much easily, and much better land, more water, better climate, etc.
That being said, Plunger is going a bit off the rails here.
Cheers,
January 24th, 2008 at 7:07 pm#38 Veritas:
Zuch: You’re obviously not familiar with constitutional law and the laws of the united states. They clearly read that there is absolutely no provision of immunity when asked to break an existing law; unlike a presidential “pardon†(I.e. Libby), a sitting president cannot make a promise of no retribution for asking you to break the law. That’s why it’s law.
Not sure where you’re coming form here. AAMOF, I happen to know quite a bit about both Constitutional law and wiretapping law (you can trace my link to find out who I am and look around a bit if you disagree).
I don’t think I said anything like what you’re claiming I said here. Matter of fact, I agree with you that there should be no “immunity” and that someone who broke the law ought to take responsibility for such. Sadly enough, from a legal perspective, Congress can pass a law retroactively decriminalising certain behaviour (but not the opposite, there’s where the ex post facto prohibition comes in). I don’t think that is a good idea, but the “necessity” of the criminal behavious may influence whether Congress deigns to do so. I’d note also that the real “good faith” provision in the telecom law (that says that if the AG certified it OK, the telecom is immune) which would make the telecoms not liable was and is already in effect; all the gummint had to do was have the AG do this, and NP for the phone companies. Thus there was always a “good faith” immunity. But let’s find out … umm, let’s say, why they didn’t get the AG on board…. And the telco lawyers (who damn well know that warrants are needed) should have said “waiddaminnit” when the gummint came knocking. To claim they’re ignorant of the law beggars belief. I don’t think a “good faith” argument can be made, and the same with a “necessity” defence; if it can, put the facts on the table in open court rather than having liars lobbying Senators than haven’t a clue except for the amount of the check. Here’s my take on “necessity”, BTW.
Simply put, Veritas, I’m on your side. But I want to keep the argument honest and stick to facts as well.
Cheers,
January 24th, 2008 at 7:28 pmJeebus, BushCo is like a petulant, snotnosed, insufferable child. Gotta drag ‘em by the ear just to get ‘em to act with a shread of decency, forget about adhering to the law, let alone refraining from defecating on the Constitution. They listened to Nancy Reagan say “Just say no,” then they chanted that refrain, then they giddily injected it into their veins, then they deified it, then they tattooed it on their chests with a branding iron, then they disemboweled their first born children on a bloody altar emblazoned with “JUST SAY NO!” across its cold, dead stones.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:18 am.
SINCE WHEN IS WARRANTLESS… LEGAL?
Congress votes to usurp the Rights that provide the People of America their “SECURITY†from Tyranny. Congress “claims†to be usurping the People of America for “National Security†ergo, Congress fails to faithfully support and defend the Constitution of the USA and instead moves toward TYRANNY. I guess the People of the USA aren’t a National interest to Congress.
T R E A S O N!
WHAT DOES CONGRESS SUPPORT AND DEFEND IF NOT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE USA?
.
January 25th, 2008 at 2:12 am