SINCE WHEN IS WARRANTLESS… LEGAL?

Congress votes to usurp the Rights that provide the People of America their “SECURITY” from Tyranny. Congress “claims” to be usurping the People of America for “National Security” ergo, Congress fails to faithfully support and defend the Constitution of the USA and instead moves toward TYRANNY. I guess the People of the USA aren’t a National interest to Congress.

T R E A S O N!

WHAT DOES CONGRESS SUPPORT AND DEFEND IF NOT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE USA?

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Zuch: You’re obviously not familiar with constitutional law and the laws of the united states. They clearly read that there is absolutely no provision of immunity when asked to break an existing law; unlike a presidential “pardon” (I.e. Libby), a sitting president cannot make a promise of no retribution for asking you to break the law. That’s why it’s law.

Not sure where you’re coming form here. AAMOF, I happen to know quite a bit about both Constitutional law and wiretapping law (you can trace my link to find out who I am and look around a bit if you disagree).

I don’t think I said anything like what you’re claiming I said here. Matter of fact, I agree with you that there should be no “immunity” and that someone who broke the law ought to take responsibility for such. Sadly enough, from a legal perspective, Congress can pass a law retroactively decriminalising certain behaviour (but not the opposite, there’s where the ex post facto prohibition comes in). I don’t think that is a good idea, but the “necessity” of the criminal behavious may influence whether Congress deigns to do so. I’d note also that the real “good faith” provision in the telecom law (that says that if the AG certified it OK, the telecom is immune) which would make the telecoms not liable was and is already in effect; all the gummint had to do was have the AG do this, and NP for the phone companies. Thus there was always a “good faith” immunity. But let’s find out … umm, let’s say, why they didn’t get the AG on board…. And the telco lawyers (who damn well know that warrants are needed) should have said “waiddaminnit” when the gummint came knocking. To claim they’re ignorant of the law beggars belief. I don’t think a “good faith” argument can be made, and the same with a “necessity” defence; if it can, put the facts on the table in open court rather than having liars lobbying Senators than haven’t a clue except for the amount of the check. Here’s my take on “necessity”, BTW.

Simply put, Veritas, I’m on your side. But I want to keep the argument honest and stick to facts as well.

Cheers,

Zuch: Cite your sources for debunking, please or skedaddle.

I know quite a bit about the business, you might say. Plunger thinks the “Jewish” Comverse is some big evil. Not so, although they may well be Mossad-connected. They’re not the exclusive players for CALEA equiment; check out the likes of Verint and SS8 (and the recently mentioned Narus). Not to mention, Nortel and Alcatel/Lucent build CALEA tap capability (the “acquisition function” or “AF”) right into their switches, and Ericsson wants to do the whole shebang (AF, DF, etc.) themselves. Similarly for Nokia and Siemens, the “AF” is in their switches (and that’s kind of how it has to be; getting at the wiretap information w/o access to the guts of the switch is difficult both technically and logistically). For IP snoops, Cisco does their own internal “taps” (although it can be controlled over a network connection through the Cisco SII functionality by a “MF”/”DF”).

It’s simply not true that Comverse has things wrapped up.

As for RSA encryptation, the algorithms are basically “shareware” by now (and used, for instance, in PGP open-source product). Anyone can look at the algorithms as see if there’s some secret “trap-door” that that nefarious Jew Adi Shamir might have snuck in, that siphons off all the information to the Mossad.

Now, that’s not to say that Israel (and the Mossad) haven’t tried to penetrate whatever security they could (and I’m pretty sure that both the U.S. and Russia would do and have done the same), or put in trap-doors or trojans into things.

If you read the web, you’ll see claims (which I personally think preposterous) that the NSA or CIA managed to pass Intel 8085 mask sets to the Russians /w some supposed back-door or “time-bomb” inserted which supposedly caused the Russians to use these mask sets, put these processors into pipeline equipment on the trans-Siberian pipeline, and cause these chips to go bonkers and cause a pressure surge that caused the pipeline to rupture … causing the crash of the Soviet economy, the subsequent fall of the Berlin Wall, Gorby to invent the word “perestroika”, and Britney Spears to forgo underpants. All nonsense, of course, and no serious engineer would believe this preposterous scheme for a second.

Intelligence agencies aren’t super-human. See, e.g. the failure to decode the phone call warning of 9/11. See, e.g., just the plain ol’ intelligence snafus of 9/11 and the Iraq War (and believe me, the Mossad did no better than we did for the most part).
The Mossad is pretty good as they go, but I think it wrong to piss your pants about them …. and even more wrong to get into stuff verging on outright anti-Semitism here. I don’t like the policies of Likud, and I don’t like the policies of Israel over the decades very much. I think that the U.S. should have given the Jews a “homeland” after WWII; could have given them ten times as much easily, and much better land, more water, better climate, etc.

That being said, Plunger is going a bit off the rails here.

Cheers,

Keep up the good work.

Secondly, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever for a wiretap to begin which is not on record as either being “pre or post warrant”. The pres has the right to begin a wiretap without warrant but within 72 hours must present it to FISA and secure the document.

Thirdly, this massive national wiretapping of american citizens, which Bush overtly denied repeatedly in news conferences (remember that lie???) is patently and totally ILLEGAL. Bush screwed up, got telecoms to collude with him on the promise of illegitimate immunity, and now is covering his own ass. That’s the nut of the rest of his presidency: CYA all the way and kick anyone in the way to the curb. After all, it may mean prison time.

The Dems are in on this from the get-go.

Next it will be:

“Listen-up citizens . . Your highly respected President has given us some documents and in return we’re going to grant immunity.”

The actual documents don’t even have to change hands.
All we get is what they say they’ve done, not necessarily what they have actually done.

All b.s. I tell ya.

Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps

One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm. Comverse provides almost all the wiretapping equipment and software for U.S. law enforcement.

Sorry, this isn’t true. Most switch manufacturers do their own in-house implementation of the actual targeting and tapping capability. Control of the wiretaps is done by an “administrative function” administered by the service provider (or service bureau). This equipment may be provided by either the switch manufacturers or third-party vendors such as Comverse (and others).

Cheers,

We need to see the documentation on what was done, and what was accomplished, before deciding if the warrantless wiretapping was justified … and can be justified as a “necessary” exigency … in the future.

Cheers,

Well, that effectively moots the faux argument that the telcos couldn’t “defend” themselves because they were not allowed to talk about what they did or didn’t do….

Cheers,

Comment by sjc001 — January 24, 2008 @ 3:54 pm

Really? If they’re lurkers, how do you know they’re countless? Or any at all?

If plunger really has a huge audience like that, why not help him start his own blog where they could all hang out reading his commentary?

You can get a blog up and running in less than an hour.

Comment by sjc001 — January 24, 2008 @ 3:54 pm

And your evidence for this is…?

May I suggest a marketing class, so you’d learn how to effectively deliver a message to an audience?