Bush comes full circle.
By on Jan 30th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Bush comes full circle.
Forbes observes how little President Bush has accomplished on the economy:
And in an odd way, this State of the Union address brings the Bush presidency full circle. Seven years ago, he rode into town as a “compassionate conservative,” promising tax cuts and rebates. Now he’ll spend at least part of his last year as president pushing for more of the same.
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MORE DEBT MORE DEBT MORE DEBT!!!
The Party of Borrow & Spend lives on!!!
January 30th, 2008 at 1:52 pmAnd in an odd way, this State of the Union address brings the Bush presidency full circle. Seven years ago, he rode into town as a “compassionate conservative,†promising tax cuts and rebates. Now he’ll spend at least part of his last year as president pushing for more of the same.
What he really is is a criminal and a drooling moron.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:53 pm#1 – “The Party of Borrow & Spend lives on!!!” Comment by Mr.Bungle — January 30, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
I would call them the party of “Borrow & Squander”, but your term works as well. ;-)
January 30th, 2008 at 1:55 pmThat’s not “full circle”. It’s obsessive-compulsive.
Bush has NEVER pushed for anything except tax cuts.
The “full circle” is the journey of the economy itself, which went from a minor recession, through modest growth fueled by deficit spending and expanding consumer debt, to the current looming, more serious, recession.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:55 pmI agree that the government needs to cut spending. Or spend more on road construction.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:55 pmOh, and the other BIG difference between then and now?
Nobody in their right mind thinks of Bush as a “compassionate conservative”. In fact, nobody in their right mind even thinks such a thing even exists.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:57 pm25+ years of NeoKKKon Corporatist Borrow and Embezzle Reaganomics is finally coming to fruition.
they’ve done it…..the USA is bankrupt….and the sooner you realize it the better off you’ll be.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:58 pmIn fact, nobody in their right mind even thinks such a thing even exists.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
I’m conservative. And I’m compassionate.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:58 pmIn fact, nobody in their right mind even thinks such a thing even exists.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
I’m conservative. And I’m compassionate.
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
Apparently you missed the modifier “in their right mind”.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:01 pmApparently you missed the modifier “in their right mindâ€.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
So anyone that doen’t agree with you is not in their right mind? That’s very compassionate.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:03 pmIt’s called a one trick pony.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:04 pmNo, but nice straw man.
No, VV, anyone who believes that conservatives are compassionate is not in their right mind. I think this is supported by the evidence gathered over the past seven years: unjustified wars, redistribution of wealth upward, passionate defense of torture…
Although, perhaps you define “compassionate” differently than I do.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pmIn defense of VA Voter, I can see compassion from someone who describes themselves as conservative. In fact, I can see how fiscal conservatism in particular can have compassionate roots.
“Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for the rest of his life.” In that expression, I see one root for compassionate conservatism. Welfare? No, workforce development. The man who just lost his job gets money to live and go back to school, long enough for him to retool his skill set and rejoin the workforce. I, with moderate libertarian leanings, can find an attractive quality in that idea.
Mind you, the majority of conservatives do not expose that, but ralph, your statement implies that no-one can hold that type of belief. Absolutes very frequently come back and bite you on the back-end…
January 30th, 2008 at 2:08 pmNow he’ll spend at least part of his last year as president pushing for more of the same.
Nevermind the massive pile of bodies in his wake…
January 30th, 2008 at 2:08 pmNo, VV, anyone who believes that conservatives are compassionate is not in their right mind. I think this is supported by the evidence gathered over the past seven years: unjustified wars, redistribution of wealth upward, passionate defense of torture…
Although, perhaps you define “compassionate†differently than I do.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
Hey Ralph,
I think anyone who defines Bush as conservative is not in their right mind, either, but this is the danger with political labels.
I actually thought Rudy did a good job in his capitulation speech last night when he said conservatives want government to do what we can’t do as individuals but stay out of the way of our using our individual talents and energy to better ourselves and our communities.
“Compassionate Conservatives”..? That was just a bumper sticker. Bush had a chance to make it a reality, but he blew it.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:13 pmComment by Jeremy in Denver — January 30, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
Compassionate Conservatism, according to Bush
“I call my philosophy and approach compassionate conservatism. It is compassionate to actively help our fellow citizens in need. It is conservative to insist on responsibility and results. And with this hopeful approach, we will make a real difference in people’s lives.”
Well, I’m still waiting on both the accountability and the results. Any day now……
January 30th, 2008 at 2:15 pmBush comes full circle…
There you have it; the last 7 years have been a ‘full circle jerk’.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:17 pmI’m conservative. And I’m compassionate.
Comment by VA Voter
anyone who identifies with the current conservatives and says they are compassionate must have missed the last 4 threads on torture that was never mentioned or discussed before the current compassionate conservative administration and their enablers……
You can’t have it both ways…..you are a fact diseminating troll……
January 30th, 2008 at 2:18 pmralph, your statement implies that no-one can hold that type of belief. Absolutes very frequently come back and bite you on the back-end…
Comment by Jeremy in Denver — January 30, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
Fair enough, Jeremy. You’re right, conservatives can indeed be responsible citizens and members of the human race.
My point, perhaps sloppily made, was that those who describe themselves as “comapssionate conservatives” engage in the same practice as those who name their pro-lumber interest bills “Healthy Forests” or their relaxation of pollution control standards “Clear Skies”.
The modern conservative movement, judging by its positions and rhetoric, is concerned far less with the kind of compassion that you describe than with the use of that kind of justification for less noble ends, which mostly benefit the wealthy at the expense of the greater welfare of the nation.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:19 pmIt is conservative to insist on responsibility and results.
Comment by dim wit — January 30, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
Wow, now THAT is ironic….
January 30th, 2008 at 2:19 pmthe only good thing bush as accomplished is to expose the republican party as the selfish , incompetent crooks that they are. There is no reason to take any of these clowns at their word for at least a generation, because that’s how long it’s going to take to clean up the republican’s mess. And for you cons out there who resent being painted with the broad brush here, you had your chance and you blew it. The time for you to stand up and complain is when bush was destroying this country in your name. Instead of doing anything about it you played the politics of winning and ignored the damage your leaders were doing. That goes double for anyone who voted for bush in 04.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:22 pmThe modern conservative movement, judging by its positions and rhetoric, is concerned far less with the kind of compassion that you describe than with the use of that kind of justification for less noble ends, which mostly benefit the wealthy at the expense of the greater welfare of the nation.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 2:19 pm
Which movement? I think if the Republican primaries showed anything, they showed that there is no such movement. It SURE as hell isn’t Bush. While I have never quite understood the definition of “neocon” (labels again), that obviously isn’t it. Is Pat Buchannen the last real conservative? He may be, and he has basically left the Repbulican party.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:23 pmRepublicans say:
January 30th, 2008 at 2:24 pmTax and spend — Bad.
Borrow and spend — Good.
Republicans say:
Tax and spend — Bad.
Borrow and spend — Good.
Comment by Art — January 30, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
Conservative:
Cut tax and spending
Conservative libertarian (me)
January 30th, 2008 at 2:25 pmPass the fair tax and cut spending.
The time for you to stand up and complain is when bush was destroying this country in your name. Instead of doing anything about it you played the politics of winning and ignored the damage your leaders were doing.
Comment by Bobwurst — January 30, 2008 @ 2:22 pm
This reinforces my point about Buchannen – he has been a vociferous critic of Bush for years.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:26 pmI think anyone who defines Bush as conservative is not in their right mind, either
Comment by Keltoi — January 30, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Come on, Keltoi, that is such a crock. you’re better than that.
Bush is a hardline conservative by all of the measures of teh current cosnervative movement, all of the things that conservatives by their actions have demonstrated are imprtant to them.
Increased government spending? That is a conservative hallmark, like it or not. Either that, or you guys have been nominating and supporting the exact wrong guys to represent you for the past thirty years.
International intervention? Please. The isloationist conservatives have died out or become libertarians, to be abused like Ron Paul. Today’s Right is all about policing the world and getting the bad guys wo don’t serve our interests.
Conservative policies have demonstrably led to increased poverty, increased abortions, redistribution of wealth upward and contraction of the middle class.
Bush is about as conservative as it gets. Just because he’s incompetent, you don’t get to disclaim him. In fact,. incompetent governance is a fundamental conservative value too, isn’t it? It was reagan, after all, who said “government IS the problem”.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:27 pmre:22
The republican leadership used the same con that Ted Haggert and Jim Baker and that bunch used. They hid behind the rhetoric of morality while they pillaged the coffers. They knew the flock could be fleeced. It was appearent in 04 to anyone with any abilty to think independantly that bush was not christain, not moral, not concerned with the well being of our country, and not capable of actually running the government, yet half the country voted for him, why?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:27 pmto the trolls:
you and your kind has screwed it up bad…..instead of questioning people here you should be listening quietly and trying to learn from your mistakes. Your input is not respected for obvious reasons. you have nothing to offer to the conversation except more of the same failed polcies….do you begin to understand how irrelivant you have made yourselves?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:28 pmThe worst president in the history of the united state’s…The most insane person to occupy the white house…The most ignorant warmonger in history…The most vindictive person to walk the face of the earth, creating a war for profit against a country that treated his daddy badly…The worst king or dictator in recent history, bringing his own country to it’s knees..The biggest lier on earth, claiming he is a christian and against abortion and then through his created war’s causes retroactive birth control amounting to hundred’s of thousand’s of death’s….bull shit bush and his evil handler’s cheney and all other’s that back him carry the blood of hundred’s of thousand’s of innocent people in Iraq and here at home.. Miserable excuse for anything human…He and all his administration should be jailed forever…..
January 30th, 2008 at 2:28 pmThis reinforces my point about Buchannen – he has been a vociferous critic of Bush for years.
Comment by Keltoi
that’s one, what about the rest of you? What about you? What did you do to stop the madness?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:29 pmThe Bush Library will list all of his accomplishments on a post-it note.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:30 pmThis reinforces my point about Buchannen – he has been a vociferous critic of Bush for years.
Comment by Keltoi
not really helping yourself here…..
January 30th, 2008 at 2:31 pmAnother idiot who speaks only when retired:
Greenspan doubts Fed’s ability to prevent recession
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080130/pl_afp/germanyuseconomygreenspan
Greenie, you were in charge of the Fed when Bush was running amok with the USA wallet in his hands, spending like a drunk sailor at a brothel.
You’re share a great part of the responsability.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:33 pmthat’s one, what about the rest of you? What about you? What did you do to stop the madness?
Comment by Bobwurst — January 30, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
And you did what, exactly, other than type to a blog?
I never voted for Bush, BTW.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:34 pmFor the rich and crooked
January 30th, 2008 at 2:35 pmHow many trolls posted comments like ” Yeah, well you lost! so stop complaining.” or “So what, you’re going to lose in November!” It was all about the winning with the republicans, and Keltoi is one of them, even if he’s on the more resonable side of trolldom. We have a country that was swept up by patriotic facism and the result is that we’ve have 7 years of bad governence, criminal behavior by our elected officals, unecesarry wars abroad, a huge debt that continues to grow, and a string of broken promises; to the folks in New Orleans, to the people of Afghanistan, to the christians on the fringe of the republican party. And don’t forget the dismantling of the constitution that the replublican rank and file cheered for.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:36 pmWhich movement? I think if the Republican primaries showed anything, they showed that there is no such movement. It SURE as hell isn’t Bush. While I have never quite understood the definition of “neocon†(labels again), that obviously isn’t it. Is Pat Buchannen the last real conservative? He may be, and he has basically left the Repbulican party.
Comment by Keltoi — January 30, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
The reason there is no ‘conservative movement” at the moment is because the conservative control of the White House and Congress through most of this century had led us to this point — failing economy, disastrous foreign entanglements, plummeting international reputation. Those kind of failures tend to leave a movement dispirited.
The only reason conservatives are distancing themselves from Bush is because he is a failure. But face it — his policies have been conservative policies, as least as the term conservative is understood in the context of contemporary politics. He accomplished all of the disasters that he has brought on this nation with enthusiastic and nearly unanimous support of conservatives across the country and, since one of the virtues of Bush always touted by the Right was “you know where he stands”, you can’t honestly expect to get away with claiming he deceived you. Except where warrantless wiretapping and WMDs are concerned. And to hear righties talk about those things, they’re of little concern to you guys.
The Right owns him. Accept it.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:37 pmAnd you did what, exactly, other than type to a blog?
I never voted for Bush, BTW.
Comment by Keltoi
I don’t have to answer your questions either……and bull shittt
January 30th, 2008 at 2:39 pmTo Ralph and dim wit:
My point exactly. Compassionate Conservatives do exist…they’re human just like the rest of us. However, the current leadership is anything but compassionate and to many conservatives, it’s not conservative either (hence the loss of my dad and our family best friend after Dubya, amongst MANY others, to the libertarian cause in these two cases).
Heck, even my Mom in Law, a republican in past years, is now an Obama girl. ;)
January 30th, 2008 at 2:40 pmthat’s one, what about the rest of you? What about you? What did you do to stop the madness?
Comment by Bobwurst — January 30, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
And you did what, exactly, other than type to a blog?
Inever voted for Bush, BTW.
Comment by Keltoi
Cop out. You defend the bush adminstration here all the time. I’ve volunteered with a community group here that is supporting blue cantidtates, I’ve sent money to John Edwards, I started a Veteran’s Club at the college where I work to support the Iraq/Afghanistan soliders here who are encountering problems adjusting to life back here.
What have you done?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:40 pmI think anyone who defines Bush as conservative is not in their right mind, either, but this is the danger with political labels.
Comment by Keltoi
Ah yes, the new scam by right-wing Republicans. Even they have found that it is impossible to defend their Lord Bush any longer. So, now they tell us that he isn’t really one of them, and if we will just elect a real conservative, everything will be great this time. Sheez! They think we are as stupid as they are.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:40 pmConservative:
Cut tax and spending
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
All evidence to the contrary notwithstanding…
January 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pmI never voted for Bush, BTW.
Comment by Keltoi
You must be wearing asbestos pants.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pmre 41:
yes. next thing you know they’ll be claiming that al gore is a conservative.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pm41 you are so right……and they told us they would bring responsibility with them to power too didn’t they. Now they won’t accept responsibility for what they have done..
January 30th, 2008 at 2:43 pmI fail to see how spending 600 billion [1.2 trillion a year including black budgets [Higgs]] and then another trillion or two on top of that for combat operations in Iraq, Afghanistan.
How is that compassionate while at the same time denying children SCHIP?
Tax cuts go to people who dont need them. How is that compassionate?
Those tax cuts did not create jobs or help growth;
US growth rate of just 0.6 percent in fourth quarter of 2007; 2.2 percent for yea
January 30th, 2008 at 2:44 pmAnd you did what, exactly, other than type to a blog?
Inever voted for Bush, BTW.
Comment by Keltoi
Cop out. You defend the bush adminstration here all the time. I’ve volunteered with a community group here that is supporting blue cantidtates, I’ve sent money to John Edwards, I started a Veteran’s Club at the college where I work to support the Iraq/Afghanistan soliders here who are encountering problems adjusting to life back here.
What have you done?
Comment by Bobwurst
He did what his Bushgod told him to do. He went shopping.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:44 pmConservative:
Cut tax and spending
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
VA Voter:
January 30th, 2008 at 2:44 pmTalking point robot.
compassionate conservative=lying republican
period…
nothing the current “conservatives” say they stand for can be interpreted to mean “compassionate” by any stretch of the imagination…..
January 30th, 2008 at 2:46 pmyes. next thing you know they’ll be claiming that al gore is a conservative.
Comment by Bobwurst
…and that conservatives are compassionate. Oh wait.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:46 pmBush was a criminal when he stole the office and now he is just a much bigger War criminal, that is about the only difference.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 30th, 2008 at 2:48 pmcompassionate conservative=lying republican
same as any relious person who did not loudly stand against the republicans claim to god.
4 recent threads about whether we torure….in the year 2008 we are still having this discussion and you want me to take you seriously….
christians who are pro-life/pro-capital punisment same group. No credibility.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:49 pmComment by Jeremy in Denver — January 30, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
A compassionate conservative can be defined as “someone who believes that conservatism and compassion complement each other, particularly in opposition to common conservative party platform planks such as advocating laissez-faire economic policies. A compassionate conservative might see the social problems of the United States, such as health care or immigration, as issues that are better solved through cooperation with private companies, charities and religious institutions rather than directly through government departments.”
- – - -
While I imagine these people can exist, they are, none-the-less, still wrong.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:50 pmHookay, Ralph, I will give this a whirl
>>Bush is a hardline conservative by all of the measures of teh current cosnervative movement, all of the things that conservatives by their actions have demonstrated are imprtant to them.
I said earlier I think the conservative movement is dead, and Bush is largely responsible for killing it. It is semantics, maybe, but what has been termed “neoconservative” is not conservative IMHO.
>>Increased government spending? That is a conservative hallmark, like it or not. Either that, or you guys have been nominating and supporting the exact wrong guys to represent you for the past thirty years.
Where the military is concerned, and specific to fighting the Soviets, yes. As regards social engineering and income redistribution vis the Great Society and the New Deal, no. And yes, in retrospect, the Repubs did nominate the wrong guy in 2000. I think they were expecting something more like Bush I.
>>International intervention? Please. The isloationist conservatives have died out or become libertarians, to be abused like Ron Paul. Today’s Right is all about policing the world and getting the bad guys wo don’t serve our interests.
I revert to my previous point about conservatism being dead. But isolationism is dead too as a viable strategy, IMHO. Perhaps the two cannot live without each other? I wonder if the Dems being described as Republicans Lite is related to this….
>>Conservative policies have demonstrably led to increased poverty, increased abortions, redistribution of wealth upward and contraction of the middle class.
I think we’ll have to disagree here and spare ourselves a battle of the links to our pet statistics fest on the economic side of your statement. I am, frankly, astounded that you are going to try to pin increased abortions on the conservatives.
>>Bush is about as conservative as it gets. Just because he’s incompetent, you don’t get to disclaim him. In fact,. incompetent governance is a fundamental conservative value too, isn’t it? It was reagan, after all, who said “government IS the problemâ€.
No. SMALL government can be competent, and in fact is more likely to be than large, bureacratic nanny state government. Bush may well be incompent, but that doesn’t make him conservative. His spending policies – and that of the Repub congress 00-06 – were a total betrayal of conservatism.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
January 30th, 2008 at 2:52 pmre 53: Except all those things your list are benign. conservatism is an evil, that will be spoken of in the same breath as the salem witch trails, lynching, and recreational gay bashing.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:54 pmkeltoi, what do you hope to accomplish here? Are you trying to tell us how to fix the problem that you created using your solutions?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:55 pmIm all for cutting tax and spending, but first you have to pay off debt and people, for whatever reason, keep forgetting that we have a huge debt.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pmand Jeramy from Denver, I’m sorry but the term compassionate conservatism is now a passe term for failure….it has been adopted by people who never understood it’s meaning beyond it’s use as a wedge term…….
it is like an actor who cannot play any other part now……like radar Oriley on Mash. He will always be Radar……same with the above republican buzz word.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pmIn this country you are what you have. An idiot, who hasn’t done anything right in the last 7 years, goes on TV and they make him look so good. Like a total hero. They hug him and they kiss him while the idiot is bankrupting the nation with an endless crminal war. The crooked politicians, the rich that keep getting richer make him look like a total hero. What an evil nation this has turned into. The middle class is no longer heard, they have no word or say. All the sense of individuality is gone. The show must go on for the IDIOT! Feel free to screw up IDIOT BUSH! Knock yourself out! You’re on SATAN’s TEAM, so he’ll make u look like a STAR!! No matter how bad u screw up ! GO FOR IT IDIOT!!!
January 30th, 2008 at 3:00 pmNo. SMALL government can be competent, and in fact is more likely to be than large, bureacratic nanny state government
Keltoi.
Yet you can’t offer any examples of this. And you acknowledge that there are no examples by your use of the qualifiers” “can” be competent”, and “”more likely” to be than…” Your conservative bais bleeds through your smear of a description of large government as “nanny state”. the fact is Large government can do good things. Look at Lyndon jJohnson’s work with the great Society, Look at the New Deal. Good, Big Government. Where’s your little good government example. you can post that example with what you’ve done to stop the madness, unless of course all you’ve done is post here.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:01 pmWe basically live in a huge house that we owe trillions on and our accountants, congress, say we need to reduce our monthly payment and pay more interest.
Thats fiscally irresponsible and indentures man to material things.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pm>>Cop out. You defend the bush adminstration here all the time.
Do I? Funny, I just got through posting to Ralph flaming Bush.
>>I’ve volunteered with a community group here that is supporting blue cantidtates, I’ve sent money to John Edwards, I started a Veteran’s Club at the college where I work to support the Iraq/Afghanistan soliders here who are encountering problems adjusting to life back here.
What have you done?
Comment by Bobwurst — January 30, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
The last item on your list is most admirable, good for you. I have not done organized volunteering, so you are morally superior to me, but then, you knew that.
As far as working on a campaign or donating money, the ONLY candidate who I see that might so motivate me is Obama. I am in one of those lucky states that hasn’t held a primary yet and won’t get to before the candidates are decided.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pmIm all for cutting tax and spending, but first you have to pay off debt and people, for whatever reason, keep forgetting that we have a huge debt.
Comment by Xisithrus — January 30, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
Stop mentioning the debt. The plan is to forget about the debt and hope all the peoplw we owe money to forget about it as well.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pmNo. SMALL government can be competent, and in fact is more likely to be than large, bureacratic nanny state government. Bush may well be incompent, but that doesn’t make him conservative. His spending policies – and that of the Repub congress 00-06 – were a total betrayal of conservatism.
Comment by Keltoi — January 30, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
Modern society is far more complex than the 50’s society. It needs a greater government than way back then. And falling short to fund the government would result in a backward path to less freedom.
And, too bad “small government” are codewords for the Republican goal of dismantling every government program who helps the poor and disenfranchised, to invest the taxes money in initiatives who forward their corporations. Being the military the greater and costlier project of the government, it’s curious how no Republican candidate is willing to cut the spendings there.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:03 pmkeltoi, what do you hope to accomplish here? Are you trying to tell us how to fix the problem that you created using your solutions?
Comment by Fred
“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”- Albert Einstein
January 30th, 2008 at 3:04 pmNo. SMALL government can be competent, and in fact is more likely to be than large, bureacratic nanny state government
Keltoi.
poor misunderstood troll keltoi……he keeps spouting the reich rhetoric but not one person is treating him with respect…..He just don’t understand why when it works so well when he talks like that with republicans….
January 30th, 2008 at 3:05 pmModern society is far more complex than the 50’s society. It needs a greater government than way back then. And falling short to fund the government would result in a backward path to less freedom.
government is force. how can that be more freedom. You hate corperations so much but they can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:07 pmkeltoi, what do you hope to accomplish here? Are you trying to tell us how to fix the problem that you created using your solutions?
Comment by Fred
“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.â€- Albert Einstein
Comment by shoeless
also the definition of insanity……..maybe it’s something they put in their kool-aid that is causing it….
January 30th, 2008 at 3:08 pm>>Cop out. You defend the bush adminstration here all the time.
Do I? Funny, I just got through posting to Ralph flaming Bush.
Today….So one post puts you on the right side of history? You’re throwing bush under the bus, like any good conservative does when cornered. I’m not morally superior to you because of what I’m doing, but that was a nice try at misdirection. Why not talk about what you’ve done in the last 7 years to stop the madness that engulfed your conservative friends? Why not talk about how you warned them that bush was selling them nothing but misery and debt? Why not talk about how you railed against the morally inferior policies of the bush administratiion? It’s because you did none of that. You sat around feeling superior to all the liberals who complained about bush. You felt rightously superior to all the traitors who were against the occupation of Iraq, and torture of prisoners, etc. Now, you want to crawl away from your postions, too late. you’re a conservative, in all your glory.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:10 pmComment by Keltoi — January 30, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
Where the military is concerned, and specific to fighting the Soviets, yes. As regards social engineering and income redistribution vis the Great Society and the New Deal, no.
I never made such a distinction, and I don’t think it’s a relevant distinction. Republicans (as close to a conservative aprty as we have in this country — and it’s DAMN close) are willing to spend more on their priorities, but they’re not willing to pay for them through taxation.
I am, frankly, astounded that you are going to try to pin increased abortions on the conservatives.
You cleverly poisoned the air with your comment about “pet statistics”, but the fact remains that the abortion rate in this country declined under Clinton and has risen under Bush. That tells me that either the republican approach doesn’t work, or that decreasing the abortion rate is not the primary motivation behind the rigt-wing “pro-life” agenda.
SMALL government can be competent, and in fact is more likely to be than large, bureacratic nanny state government.
You have a valid point, especially since you’re comparing a competent “SMALL ” government to a “large, bureaucratic nanny state” government. Of course, comparing the best case scenario of the favored choice to the worst-case of the other isn’t really a very honest comaprison, is it?
But beyond that, the approach of Republicans in office, both practical and rhetorical, do not square with your “competent small government” ideal. Most of them seem to be antagonistic to anything that government doies, beyond spying and warfare. Oh, and corporate welfare.
Bush may well be incompent, but that doesn’t make him conservative. His spending policies – and that of the Repub congress 00-06 – were a total betrayal of conservatism.
Bush IS incompetent, but that doesn’t make him NOT conservative either. Which of his stated policies were non-conservative? Tax cuts? “Strict constructionist” judges? Pro-business leanings? Forceful foreign policy? Less regulation? More tax cuts?
Sadly, Keltoi, you don’t get to define conservatism for the rest of us. Conservatism, like liberalism has its downside as well as its upside. I happen to believe that conservatism’s downside is greater than its upside, and I think we’re seeing the fruits of those limitations now.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:11 pmIf you want smaller government, elect a Democrat.
If you say you want smaller government, but what you really want is to ensure gay people can’t marry or that there is no stem cell research or you oppose the lawful ruling of Roe v Wade, then by all means, vote for the “conservative”
January 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pmgovernment is force. how can that be more freedom. You hate corperations so much but they can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to.
Comment by VA Voter
so you consider police to be govenmental? How about firemen?
Are you a troll? yes or no? don’t go all McClusky on me now. Just answer the question.
the above institutions are socialist government programs. Don’t hear you saying we should get rid of them or make them private…..why?
government is force is gop speak for you to use against weak minds….try again fool.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pmgovernment is force. how can that be more freedom.
Two talking points this time, a Libertarian one, and a Republican one. Wow.
Government is the crystalization of the will of the people. Isn’t an exterior force. If you don’t like it, change it. It’s yours. If they act like jerks, it’s because you’re too lazy to control them.
One example of the “evil” agents of the government? Policemen capturing a serial killer in your neighbourhood, preventing so more attacks. Oh, I see how having a serial killer in your lawn by the night increases your liberty and the ones of your family.
You hate corperations so much but they can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to.
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
Try contracting a new healthcare insurance when you have a cancer in your medical background. Or try contracting a phone line in a zone where only exists a provider.
Or simply put: How was living in Cali when Enron decided to enrich themselves without providing enough service?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:15 pm“You hate corperations so much but they can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to.”
Comment by VA Voter
Yeah, you could always decide not to pay your gas and electric bill, and just shiver in the dark…
January 30th, 2008 at 3:16 pmgovernment is force. how can that be more freedom. You hate corperations so much but they can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to.
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
so I imagine you would agree its not the goverment’s job to define a marriage.
or oppose the state of California’s right to set higher emission standards for their vehicles?
or to tell the state of Nevada it can’t have medical marijuana?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:17 pmWe can all expect the Keltoi treatment from all the pundits for the next few years. Conservatives will claim that bush wasn’t one of them, that they never supported him, that they stand for good things, etc. then they’ll sadly decry the degradation in public discourse and wonder why can’t we all just get along. Yup, they’ll be all for being nice and all that, until they have a chance to bring facism back into vogue.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:17 pmso you consider police to be govenmental? How about firemen?
Yes. and yes.
Are you a troll? yes or no? don’t go all McClusky on me now. Just answer the question.
No. Answered.
the above institutions are socialist government programs. Don’t hear you saying we should get rid of them or make them private…..why?
I don’t have a problem with police or firemen. Or road workers or the millitary. I don’t thing the government should spend money on welfare. At all. I support charity.
government is force is gop speak for you to use against weak minds….try again fool.
Fred, I hate to tell ya buddy, but you do seem to have a weak mind. Sorry buddy.
Comment by Fred — January 30, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
January 30th, 2008 at 3:19 pmYou hate corperations so much but they can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to.
Comment by VA Voter
unless you…………deregulate them.
82 so true…..I can rembember after tricky dick was run out of town…..you couldn’t find anyone who had voted for him…..same with bush 1 after the read my lips recession.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:20 pmFred, I hate to tell ya buddy, but you do seem to have a weak mind. Sorry buddy.
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 3:19 pm
This coming from “one-liner” Voter Is. Comedy. Gold.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:21 pmNearly all the repukes that I know, including relatives are now saying that they didn’t vote for Bush and that he is not a true conservative….B F’n S, they voted for the scum bag and would not listen to reason and now they are trying to say they didn’t vote for him!!! You scum bags voted for this prick and watched and ignored happily all the crimes he has committed, it is only now after it is starting to affect you are you idiots trying to distance yourselves from this sociopathic liar.
Although it has made my Father-In-Law and Mother-In-Law say that they will vote for a Democratic candidate this time, they are sick of repukian lying and crime.
Buck Fush
January 30th, 2008 at 3:21 pmFred, I hate to tell ya buddy, but you do seem to have a weak mind. Sorry buddy.
Comment by Fred — January 30, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
Comment by VA Voter
now you have gone and hurt my feelings……if I only gave a rats ass what you thought. You have already shown how intelligent you are. Please carry on.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:23 pmCan’t buy a dildo in the statex of Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
I can only imagine it was big intrusive government Democrats who passed this legislation.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:24 pmoh yeah, here it is….va’s intelligent post:
I’m conservative. And I’m compassionate.
Comment by VA Voter
January 30th, 2008 at 3:24 pmBush’s brand of conservatism is all that’s left, after seven years of rhetorical rubberstamping for every anti-conservative act he committed. If conservatives are unhappy the scam was exposed, tough. They had a chance to repudiate Bush’s conservatism, and took a pass.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:26 pm92 Just as christians gave up thier god to bush without a wimper.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:28 pmkeltoi, what do you hope to accomplish here? Are you trying to tell us how to fix the problem that you created using your solutions?
Comment by Fred — January 30, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
Well, as usual I am trying to refute/debate 3 to 5 different lines of argument at once, at times I don’t know what I am trying to do either. I feel like there are 4 tennis balls in play and only one of me. Oh well, my fault for coming here.
This thread is mainly about economics. A conservative position – as opposed to a Bush Admin or Republican position – would be to cut spending and trim the debt. Iraq is indeed draining our treasury. Getting out would be good, but only if done in such a way that we don’t have a security crisis that demands we return again – that will be more expensive, more damaging to our economy and world economic stability.
I agree with John McCain that if you want to have tax cuts, you must have spending cuts, you can’t have both.
We have GOT to get off oil – just gotta. Energy innovation/technology will save us money we don’t spend on foreign sources and will be a money maker for us as an export technology.
Okay – gotta check on the other tennis balls.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:28 pmI don’t thing the government should spend money on welfare. At all. I support charity.
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 3:19 pm
Do you even know what you’re saying when you say things like this?
Do you know the definition of “welfare”? From Dictionary.com, the primary definition of the term is:
the good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being: to look after a child’s welfare; the physical or moral welfare of society.
Oh, wait, you’re a “compassionate conservative”. I can see how you would be against the government spending money on the good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity of the nation.
Makes perfect sense now. Carry on.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:28 pmCan’t buy a dildo in the statex of Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
I can only imagine it was big intrusive government Democrats who passed this legislation.
Comment by dim wit — January 30, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
I’m sure big intrusive government Democrats passed anti-sodomy laws in Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Tennessee, Utah, , etc., etc.,
Comment by Dr. Matt
lets not talk about the replublican plans for immigrants……
January 30th, 2008 at 3:29 pmCan’t buy a dildo in the statex of Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
I can only imagine it was big intrusive government Democrats who passed this legislation.
Comment by dim wit — January 30, 2008 @ 3:24 pm
I know the local Dems are trying to ban “Truck nuts.”
January 30th, 2008 at 3:32 pmBeing the military the greater and costlier project of the government, it’s curious how no Republican candidate is willing to cut the spendings there.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — January 30, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
“Providing for the Common Defence” is spelled out as a government imperative in the Constitution and is not something individuals can do.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:33 pmTwo common lies we will continue to hear:
1. I was at Woodstock
2. I didn’t vote for bush.
Comment by Dr. Matt
How can 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?
And, where did they all go?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:34 pmModern society is far more complex than the 50’s society. It needs a greater government than way back then. And falling short to fund the government would result in a backward path to less freedom.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — January 30, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
Needs? According to who? And how does more government make me more free?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:34 pm95 see you didn’t answer the question……these all sound like the same ideas……you have already cut everything you can cut….didn’t you see what happened in New Orleans…..were you asleep.
I just can’t go through this step by step with you. You should put the tennis balls down and start listening to these people here at TP. They have reasonable solutions for you.
You did come here because you didn’t really have an alternative, right? Why in the world do you think anyone here wants to hear your ideas? What you espouse….getting rid of welfare just for one…..is the same old bs we have been hearing….so just try to understand why we’re not “really excited” about your “true conservative” selling points……..
January 30th, 2008 at 3:37 pmYou care about this after the reich-wingers had a hissy fit over a nipple on T.V.? You hypocrite.
Comment by Dr. Matt — January 30, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
I never supported any such thing. I would assume see the FCC shut down.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:37 pmA conservative position – as opposed to a Bush Admin or Republican position – would be to cut spending and trim the debt. Iraq is indeed draining our treasury. Getting out would be good, but only if done in such a way that we don’t have a security crisis that demands we return again – that will be more expensive, more damaging to our economy and world economic stability.
I agree with John McCain that if you want to have tax cuts, you must have spending cuts, you can’t have both.
We have GOT to get off oil – just gotta. Energy innovation/technology will save us money we don’t spend on foreign sources and will be a money maker for us as an export technology.
Okay – gotta check on the other tennis balls.
Comment by Keltoi — January 30, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
Okay, Keltoi, now you’re getting back to sensible arguments. Doesn’t mean I agree with all of your conclusions, but I respect your ability to form generally sound arguments (and your willingness to withstand the usual abuse that comes with a conservative position here).
Your “Bush isn’t conservative” just threw me.
The frustration many of us feel here is that so often, when arguments are advanced like you just offered, they are followed with dishonest analysis or attacks (like “liberals want us to lose in Iraq” or other strategies meant to short-circuit debate) and no progress is ever made toward agreement of any kind.
I don’t lump you in with those kinds of commenters (also known as “trolls”) and you deserve credit for your willingenss to engage.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:39 pmso I imagine you would agree its not the goverment’s job to define a marriage.
or oppose the state of California’s right to set higher emission standards for their vehicles?
or to tell the state of Nevada it can’t have medical marijuana?
Comment by dim wit — January 30, 2008 @ 3:17 pm
I agree with all these things, though since marriage is a legal arrangement which confers special tax status and inheritance rights, it does have to get involved in the definition of civil unions. Let churches and or individuals define “marriage”, they do anyway and you can’t stop them.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:39 pm“Providing for the Common Defence†is spelled out as a government imperative in the Constitution and is not something individuals can do.
Comment by Keltoi
you can’t possibley be this stupid…..please use the internet to compare our military budget with the rest of the countries of the world and report back how ignoran you must feel.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:42 pmI know the local Dems are trying to ban “Truck nuts.â€
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 3:32 pm
You mean like the law Republican Leroy Myers tried to pass in Maryland?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:43 pmHerr dubyah and GOPigs did with their attempt at redefining obscenity. Don’t paint with a proud stroke unless you want it thrown back at you. Your outrage over truck nuts but silence about a nipple slip is pure and typical reich-wing hypocrisy.
Comment by Dr. Matt — January 30, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
did you read or hear any of my comments about the nipple?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:43 pmgovernment is force. how can that be more freedom. You hate corperations so much but they can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to.
Comment by VA Voter
Much like others have said, this is a code-phrase. Yes, Government IS force. It forces me to sign a release every time I buy sinus meds that might be made into meth. It forced my wife to jump through hoops to get emergency contraception. It also forces me to ride my bike according to the rules of the road–stopping at stop-signs (and losing my forward momentum), and it forces others who would like to cloud my lungs with soot from their burning plants wrapped in paper to take their burning plants in paper outside and inhale the products outside. It also forces me NOT to kill other people, and forces me to follow the terms of my contracts that I sign.
I.E. Government is ABOUT force. The extreme away from a society that controls everything I see and do is a society where ‘might makes right’ and I have no recourse against an outsider except what my body and my money can bring. THAT is called anarchy, and many Libertarians get dangerously close to that territory.
As for the lie that corporations cannot force me to do anything I don’t want to do…
Sure. I can disconnect my electric service and my water service and my phone service and my internet. I can forgo buying a car and not buy groceries. I can sit in the dark and cold (or hot) waiting for my stored energy reserves to give out and then move on to the next stage of my existence (afterlife or non-existance).
Grow my own food? Nope, virtually all food-seeds have ‘non-compete’ agreements and programmed in obsolescence built into them.
Cable Internet? I’ll lose my rights to trial by court if I don’t find this article on Consumerist about opting out of Binding Arbitration.
Car? Mandatory Arbitration there too.
Cell Phone? Mandatory Arbitration.
Corporations can and do try to force me to do things I don’t want to do. I want internet service, yes. I would like not to pay. If I knew that they couldn’t get me for not paying, I probably would neglect to send Comcast payment. But you see, they CAN force me to pay…take me to court, get a judgment against me, take money right out of my paycheck, harass me until I cough up the money due to them, etc. I actually have no problem with that. But now, they are trying to stiff me into Mandatory Arbitration. So I can’t take them to court for, say billing me for a month without providing service. I’d have to go to their hired help, the arbitration company…THAT is not fair.
Force is both good and bad. Force to keep people playing fair and by the rules is good. Force to allow one side to walk all over the other is bad.
VA Voter, you can keep your anarchy. I want nothing of it.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:46 pmNeeds? According to who? And how does more government make me more free?
Comment by Keltoi
and va voter
Get yourselves some books….read…change your friends….that’s probably the best advice…..I think that’s what they tell addicts…..change your friends and don’t go back to the same old haunts….try something new…..you can grow.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:47 pmSadly, Keltoi, you don’t get to define conservatism for the rest of us. Conservatism, like liberalism has its downside as well as its upside. I happen to believe that conservatism’s downside is greater than its upside, and I think we’re seeing the fruits of those limitations now.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
Fair enough, but you don’t get to define it for me, either, unless I get to define liberalism for you….
January 30th, 2008 at 3:47 pmIf conservatives are unhappy the scam was exposed, tough. They had a chance to repudiate Bush’s conservatism, and took a pass.
Comment by barfly — January 30, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
Not all, but then if they do repudiate him they are told “not so fast, you can’t throw him under the bus, he is yours yours yours forever and ever, if you ever agreed once with anything he did his whole admin is your fault.”
That is basically what I am getting above.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:50 pmFair enough, but you don’t get to define it for me, either, unless I get to define liberalism for you….
Comment by Keltoi
see, you just don’t get it……you are the one that is here trying once agiain to tell us how it is…….we don’t care what you think. We have our own ideas……interested in what we think? Just ask. Your thoughts on things……been hearing that for a while now…..didn’t work under raygun, aint workin now……do you get that?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:51 pmComment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
Fair enough, but you don’t get to define it for me, either, unless I get to define liberalism for you….
Comment by Keltoi — January 30, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
Agreed. I wasn’t trying to define conservatism for you. My point was that conservatism and liberalism are defined by usage of the terms in the wider culture, and by the behavior patterns of those who profess them in pursuit of power to make change, and of those who support those pursuits.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:52 pm114 If I can make that stick to you…..if you ever defended them for anything then yes, absolutly. What about taking some responsibility?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:53 pmVA Voter, you can keep your anarchy. I want nothing of it.
Comment by Jeremy in Denver
VA Voter is a Libertarian. A Libertarian is an anarchist without the guts for anarchy.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:53 pmHey, shoeless, not all libertarians are bad. The ones who recognize that force is necessary aren’t that bad in the philosophy department. the real answer is somewhere between total control and total freedom…where that answer is is up for debate, and keeps changing.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:57 pmI never said I wanted no government. Just less intrusive.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:58 pmIf conservatives are unhappy the scam was exposed, tough. They had a chance to repudiate Bush’s conservatism, and took a pass.
Comment by barfly — January 30, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
Not all, but then if they do repudiate him they are told “not so fast, you can’t throw him under the bus, he is yours yours yours forever and ever, if you ever agreed once with anything he did his whole admin is your fault.â€
That is basically what I am getting above.
Comment by Keltoi
Yes, you fool. What, did you think we would just forgive and forget the fact that you a-holes gave unquestioning, and unwavering support to the right-wing regime which has destroyed our country?
We will never forgive you for what you have done the past 7 years.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:58 pmif they do repudiate him they are told “not so fast, you can’t throw him under the bus, he is yours yours yours forever and ever, if you ever agreed once with anything he did his whole admin is your fault.â€
That is basically what I am getting above.
Comment by Keltoi — January 30, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
The problem is that they didn’t repudiate him when it could have meant something, and only now, when the only real power he has as a lame duck president is to destroy the party that supported him, do they repudiate him and his policies.
When he was cutting taxes without any concern for government spending, a few isloated voices complained, but most of his support lined up behind him, their heels together.
When he was beating the drums for war with an enemy that hadn’t attacked us and was no real threat to our nation, none of them raised an objection.
When he was briefed before Katrina and appeared bored and distracted, his supporters defended the subsequent uninspired and chaotic response to the disaster, and blamed it on the people who lived in poverty.
I could go on, but I trust you get the picture.
The point is, if you’re goiing to repudiate someone for scamming you, the time to do it is when they scam you, not when their usefulness has been exhausted. Otherwise you look cynical and dishonest.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:59 pmI never said I wanted no government. Just less intrusive.
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
Hence the reason I vote Democratic.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:02 pmHence the reason I vote Democratic.
Comment by dim wit — January 30, 2008 @ 4:02 pm
Please explain.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:03 pmCynical and Dishonest
Comment by ralph the wonder llama
The theme for this year’s Republican National Convention.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:04 pmyou can’t possibley be this stupid…..please use the internet to compare our military budget with the rest of the countries of the world and report back how ignoran you must feel.
Comment by Fred — January 30, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
I don’t feel ignorant Fred, and I know we spend more than all the nations of the world combined without having to Google it. If you don’t understand the historic geopoltical forces that has placed such heavy responsibilty on America, fine. You can say we could just spend all our money on social programs and the world would get on fine without us, China and Russia are led by really nice people who would never do anything bad were it not for us, but that is not the real world.
BTW, I will happily quit responding to you and your condescension. You could take a lesson from Ralph, who argues without the need to insult. And spare me the “wahhh” poor me accusation like McMetal tried yesterday. It is bs, there is just no point in debating with someone who can’t stick to the point and leave personality out of it. You don’t like my posts, fine, ignore them and I’ll do the same to you.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:04 pmI don’t feel ignorant …
Comment by Keltoi
The ignorant never feel ignorant.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:06 pmDamn thing ate my post…
Short answer:
VA Voter? Right, you didn’t say you wanted no government. But Binding Arbitration is the end result of your ‘hands off’ attitude towards government. If you find yourself being ****ed (rhymes with hucked) by a company because they slipped a mandatory arbitration agreement into your latest bill, I hope you enjoy what you wroght…your case will be heard by a person whose continued economic well-being depends on finding against you and for the company. Look it up…
January 30th, 2008 at 4:06 pmIt is bs, there is just no point in debating with someone who can’t stick to the point and leave personality out of it. You don’t like my posts, fine, ignore them and I’ll do the same to you.
Comment by Keltoi
I just don’t have as much patience with someone who is here just to divert the discussion to their agenda……I call trolls…..trolls.
You ignore mine because you know it’s the truth and it doesn’t reallly bother you, because you are not really here for a discussion…..that’s about it, right?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:10 pmI never said I wanted no government. Just less intrusive.
Comment by VA Voter — January 30, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
Hence the reason I vote Democratic.
Comment by dim wit
Please explain.
Comment by VA Voter
Why don’t you ask the NSA agent who is monitoring this thread to explain it to you?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:10 pmhere, let me remind you of what you thoght was worthy of discussion:
I actually thought Rudy did a good job in his capitulation speech last night when he said conservatives want government to do what we can’t do as individuals but stay out of the way of our using our individual talents and energy to better ourselves and our communities.
“Compassionate Conservativesâ€..? That was just a bumper sticker. Bush had a chance to make it a reality, but he blew it.
Comment by Keltoi
there’s more…….want to see it?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:13 pmLearn something new each day. Don’t just star out the u in the very versatile word that rhymes with huck and starts with an F. They filter that $#!+…
*sigh*
All over ‘don’t complain if you get ****ed (rhymes with hucked) by the used car dealership thanks to their binding arbitration.’
January 30th, 2008 at 4:13 pmWhich circle is the ninth of hell for this bastard?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:23 pmThe point is, if you’re goiing to repudiate someone for scamming you, the time to do it is when they scam you, not when their usefulness has been exhausted. Otherwise you look cynical and dishonest.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 30, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
I am cynical. I try to be as honest as I can.
I do feel scammed. I also admit I was wrong in the past, which is something that so many seem sooooo reluctant to ever do. It isn’t a sign of weakness to say “I thought one way before, but now I realize I was wrong then.”
Like the fall of the Soviet Union, for example. Would it kill the Left to ever, ever just once, say that maybe they were wrong to oppose Reagan’s military buildup? That maybe the development of Stealth technology, a 600 ship navy, the threat of SDI, the support of the Muhajadeen in Afghanistan had SOMETHING to do with the fall of the USSR? Maybe you make that acknowledgement, I don’t know.
Sometimes I think the problem with our country is we are so much more interested in scoring points off each other than we are with playing the game of civil discourse well – it is why I have so little patience for the ANGRYANGRYANGRY libs that come here and why I appreciate you and Gummitch and others so much. And yeah, I know Rove was a heartless Machiavellian bastard, but what was Carville? I dunno…
January 30th, 2008 at 4:30 pmthere’s more…….want to see it?
Comment by Fred — January 30, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
That was in response to something Ralph said, which was in turn a response to something someone else said. Sorry if you think I am derailing the thread, I will look forward to you criticizing RHF the next time his screaming personnae appears.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:33 pmSorry if you think I am derailing the thread, I will look forward to you criticizing RHF the next time his screaming personnae appears.
Comment by Keltoi
no you’re not. You are either a winger troublemaker or you are a sad pathetic needy sociopath as your statement confirms.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:44 pmAn apology is due you, Keltoi. When I said “Otherwise you look cynical and dishonest” it did read as if I was addressing that at you. In a way, I guess I was (in context of your statement that Bush is not conservative) but I really didn’t intend to accuse you of being dishonest.
I think you’re right, the political culture is far too focused on scoring points and not enough honest, reasonable shared analysis goes on here or p[retty much anywhere — certainly not enough goes on the 24-hours “news” networks these days.
Sure, I think Reagan doesn’t get as much credit as he deserves from most liberals (I think at least some of that goes to balance the outsized deification that occurs among the Right), just as Clinton’s economic accomplishments are dismissed by conservatives.
I understand your lack of patience with the angry libs here. For my part, I generally find them amusing, since they’re usually focused on trolls. Sometimes they get in the way of a real discussion, but not often, since so few of those actually go on here. Try to keep in mind that when we get angry with the trolls, it’s usually deserved, and sometimes you get caught in crossfire.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:51 pmHa, ha, ha,
Right wing greed rag, Forbes, says something other than masturbatory fellatio towards Bush. LOL.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:59 pmAll over ‘don’t complain if you get ****ed (rhymes with hucked) by the used car dealership thanks to their binding arbitration.’
Comment by Jeremy in Denver — January 30, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
for future reference, this spelling works: fu(k
January 30th, 2008 at 5:07 pmThat’s funny…fu(ked worked, but eff-star-cee-kay-ee-dee doesn’t. *shakes head*
January 30th, 2008 at 5:14 pmComment by dim wit
Please explain.
Comment by VA Voter
Concerning the size of government:
http://www.brookings.edu/gs/cps/light20030905.pdf
January 30th, 2008 at 5:14 pmBush’s only two solutions to any problem are war and tax cuts.
“Mr. President, a giant asteroid is about to hit the earth.”
“Well, bout time we had another one o’ them tax cuts and declared war on outer space.”
January 30th, 2008 at 6:44 pm