almanya chat

And could you tell us, roughly, how many years you’ll wait before admitting it was a mistake to hold on?

Take your time, I wouldn’t want to rush you, and have an intellectual vacuum keep you from answering.

Comment by barfly — January 31, 2008 @ 5:10 pm

Obviously, there’s no arbitrary number of years I could tell you. If we begin to slip back to the way things were in 2006 and lose the gains we’ve made, then I would suggest we should redeploy our troops since all purpose and direction would be lost. We would have to deal with the consequences, and it would get really ugly, but at that point it would be clear that Iraq needs to sort itself out on its own.

However, right now we have a direction. The new strategy has brought improvements on the security level, as much as you guys like to deny it. CLCs are working with the US military to beat back extremism, local economies are growing, provincial reconstruction efforts are establishing an infrastructure on which an Iraqi state can rely, and, if implemented wisely, the new law on de-Baathification will represent a step forward. (The law, let’s be fair, is pretty vague, although it does create a judicial check. I asked Juan Cole and he agreed with me that the implementation will be what matters. I think it could go either way.)

You all want to pull out now, which I find odd since now is the time when we clearly need our troops there to keep a reasonable state of security. I challenge anyone to suggest that security, even in January, is worse than it was prior to mid-2007, when the surge fully kicked in.

Comment by thirdparty

And could you tell us, roughly, how many years you’ll wait before admitting it was a mistake to hold on?

Take your time, I wouldn’t want to rush you, and have an intellectual vacuum keep you from answering.

Got Kool Aid?

This will be largely ignored by the wingnut talking heads. We won’t hear from them again on this subject for another month — and that’s only if February (a shorter month) has numbers better than January.

Comment by missmolly — January 31, 2008 @ 11:22 am

OK, well, I won’t ignore it. I think we’ll have to see if there’s a trend in the wrong direction security-wise; still, look at that chart TP links to and observe the numbers on Baghdad security – six suicide explosions since Nov. 2, a major decline from what those numbers used to look like; also, civilian and sectarian killings are way down.

Another interesting story, from the Ashura tradition that is usually marked by violence:

A relatively uneventful passage of Ashura had been seen by U.S. and Iraqi officials as a rigorous test of the decline in violence in the country since Washington sent in 30,000 additional troops last year and many Sunni insurgents suddenly joined American forces in the fight against al-Qaeda in Iraq.

I think the trends in Iraq are really, really positive. I know the standard arguments in rebuttal – that political progress isn’t being made – but I think we have to be patient. While gains are made locally, it will take a while for the necessary national reconciliation. But things would be a lot worse if we withdraw and leave a security vacuum now.

A∞Ω

“We need to leave Iraq with honor” …….

How the hell do you propose to do that ?

Drop Chimpy in the middle of Baghdad so he can be drop-kicked by the entire populace ?

We INVADED ILLEGALLY ; there is no “honor” in that.

Everyone in the garbage Chimpy administration , past and present , should be arrested and shipped off to Iraq and be made to apologize to each and every Iraqi citizen ………

Comment by Above the Clouds — January 31, 2008 @ 11:28 am

The only thing I give a shit about Iraq for , is that our military is still in it.

Well that , and sitting on his stupid ass for 7 full minutes without a clue after being informed that the country was under attack……

-John McCain’s Sphincter

And then, down the road, as the new President struggles to extricate the US from the mess, the media can then point at his or her failure as indications that they’re not really Presidential enough…

The report also showed an increase in the number of attempted suicides and self-injuries — some 2,100 in 2007 compared to less than 1,500 the previous year and less than 500 in 2002.

The total of 121 suicides last year, if all are confirmed, would be more than double the 52 reported in 2001, before the September 11 attacks prompted the Bush administration to launch its counter-terror war.

Jackass.