Big Oil’s shame.
By on Feb 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Big Oil’s shame.
With the announcement that Exxon Mobil has “beat its own record for the highest profit ever recorded by a U.S. company,” Climate Progress notes that the other Big Five oil giants — BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, and Shell — have seen similar trends:
Yup, Cheney kept his promises.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:50 pmMISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:52 pm25% per year Bush’s Dividends
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pmThey have the U.S. Army to protect them and U.S. tax dollars to underwrite them … not a bad deal when you figure that more than half are not even U.S. companies …
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:01 pmMISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 2, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
Nail on head, my friend.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pmWell, yeah, I got raped pretty hard at the gas station this morning.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:09 pmShock and Awe at the Gaspump.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:10 pmHi, Z.
I tired coming back last night and replying, but yer website was misbehaving. It wouldn’t let me on.
Man, that little graph above is telling and scary.
Since the Deciderer decided to go to war, oil prices have tripled, the national debt has nearly doubled, the dollar is tanking…
What a hideous, complete disaster that rotten little dry drunk has been for this country and whole world…
EXCEPT for oil companies and defense contractors.
Just… disgusting…
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:10 pmThat’s “tried”… I “tried” replying…
(I think I might be lysdexic… either that, or a rcappy ytpist…)
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 pmTwo oil cronies, with an assist from the SCOTUS, stage a coup in late 2000, occupying the Oval Office since January, 2001.
Oil companies profits have more than tripled since then. Can you say the same about your own income?
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 pmThe only thing that has tripled, is the number of Jobs family members need to work at…to make ends meet.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:16 pmI remember thinking back in 2000, when Botch “won” the election, at least at the SCOTUS level, that seeing how George’s background was so intimately entwined w/ the CIA and Big Oil, and w/ BigDick and Colin Powell, the military, this didn’t bode well for the future.
I hate it when I’m right all the time.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:16 pmAlthough the headline for this story is most likely facetious, if taken literally, it could be argued that conveys a message about oil companies that is totally misleading (in the same vein as No Child Left Behind, Healthy Forests Initiative, Clear Skies, etc.).
Oil companies and their friends are no doubt incapable of experiencing shame. Perhaps the title, if one were striving to make it literal, would have used the headline, “Big Oil’s Proudest Accomplishment.”
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:17 pmNO ** SH*T, curmudgeon…
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:18 pmLooks like Big Oil is winning the class war.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pmObviously, the oil companies don’t need anymore Corporate welfare.
Time to make them pay their share of taxes.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 pmAmazing - the “perfect storm” of corporate greed.
Get a president that will do anything for you to make money, start a war in the middle east, oil FUTURES price goes up, consumer gets gouged, W and his buddies spend 5 years doing that and then laugh maniacally riding off into the sunset with everyone’s money…leaving the mess for the next president.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:42 pmMission Accomplished BushitCo.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:44 pmAmerica has experienced Oil Shocks before. In 1974, the Yom Kipper War with Israel sent oil prices through the roof. In 1979, after the Iranian Revolution, high oil prices wreaked havoc with the US Economy, and sent Jimmy Carter back to peanut farming.
Americans did respond by conservation. Compact cars like VW’s and Toyota’s began replacing V-8’s, oil prices plummeted, and OPEC fell into dissaray. Arabs feared they had killed their golden goose. Fortunately for them, Americans have short memories. A decade of $10/barrel oil, plus the absense of CAFE standards for pickups and SUVs , led us back to huge oil imports. The notion of a Gas Tax to fund alternative energy research was derided as political suicide.
The silver lining of $3/gallon gas is that the American people are ready to fix problem. Plug in hybrids and alternative energy research funding can and will release us from dependence on foreign oil. In the end, we needed to go thru this transition. The problems of Climate change and Oil Wars need to be fixed.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:53 pm. . . out of your pocket, into theirs.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:00 pmExxon must be so proud! But I betcha they still won’t pay up for the Valdez incident 15 years ago.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:00 pmIt’s all about profits, and oil barons making a killing on the public who has no alternative.
Will they send a box of chocolates to Bush and Cheney?
Who could have known that putting to oil barons in charge of America would result is such windfalls.
-GSD
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:02 pmSince the Bush gangster regime overthrew our democracy back in 2000, the major oil corporation profits have increased 300%… Heck of job, BushInc….
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:10 pmIf you flip the image of the graph you have a visualization of the spread of freedom and democracy around the oil producing world.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:14 pmFinally, the real Bush legacy.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:19 pmWar proftiers!!!!
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:24 pmYep, the old portfolio is lookin might nice, buy, buy, bye!
Comment by Billy Hill
Run right out and buy a new Ramcharger with your windfall, Silly Billy.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:31 pmI’d like to recommend an article:
Something Had to Give
How Oil Burst the American Bubble
By Michael T. Klare
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174888
Klare says that in 1998 when oil was $11 a barrel, US paid $45 billion for its imported oil. In 2007 we paid $400 billion.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pmThe oil reserves of the Big Five is now worth about $2.3 TRILLION! That’s also about how much the Iraq war and occupation will eventually cost the American taxpayer.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:34 pmWe actually give tremendous tax breaks to “businessmen” who buy a vechicle OVER a certain weight! The business might be an accountant who has no need whatsoever for a Hummer—but still they get a fantastic tax break—-say $20,000 if the vehicle costs $60k.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:39 pmTrees and ropes
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:00 pmRelax, folks. HillyBilly is talking about his collection of bottles and cans.
He actually thinks of the empties he adds thru his own daily consumption as “reinvesting his dividends”.
Yep… life is lookin’ good… from the crawl space under the double wide, AKA “Mom’s basement”. Mom must be at her 2nd job right now. How else would Hilly get to use the dial up connection?
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:10 pmHey, jason, heaven forbid folks can’t just waddle to their SUVs whenever they feel like it, to drive 3 blocks, in order to chow down at the Trough O’ Potato Salad Bar at their local chain eatery for $9.95…
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 pmDon’t worry I can hear the trickling now. It’s just a matter of time. Be patient people, we’ll get to wet our beaks soon. A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage. I just knew Ronny Reagan was right!
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:20 pmComment by williamf — February 2, 2008 @ 4:20 pm
Some people think the trickle-down economics of Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover was great, too. They are still waiting for the benefits. But at the hight of roaring 20’s prosperity, the majority of Americans were below the poverty line. It took the socialism of FDR’s New Deal to improve the quality of life for Americans. We need another New Deal today.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:44 pmThat’s HEIGHT of roaring 20’s prosperity.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:48 pmdon’t higher gas prices drive down consumption and help the environment?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
No.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:58 pmBush demanded tax breaks for oil companies, and got them. How much are these companies saving with the lower taxes?
To put it another way, how much have American taxpayers lost, since we’re going to be stuck paying the bills?
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:03 pmwhat’s really shameful, though, is that americans believe they have a god-given right to drive as much as they want, even when climatologists tell them that driving is causing the very problem.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:08 pmdon’t higher gas prices drive down consumption and help the environment?
of course they do! why do think gas costs so much in europe? because they don’t want people to drive.
why do you think london is charging SUVs 50 pounds to enter the city? same reason.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:09 pmlet me put it in black and white:
the only way we’re going to save the environment is by making it extremely difficult for people to pollute (i.e. drive).
that is why every single thinkprogress article slamming the oil companies is utterly pointless and irrelevant.
it is up to individuals to save the environment, not the government, or the oil companies. oil is a dirty, dirty business. stay away from it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:11 pm*
you MUST see this… pass it on…
Yes We Can - Barack Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY
get back with me and tell me you were NOT moved…
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:11 pmmyself, to tears…
how are oil companies making so much money?
because fat, lazy americans keep giving and giving and giving.
why do you think the saudis love us?
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:13 pmI think there is an element of hypocrisy for environmentally conscience people to complain about rising gas prices, when it is probably one of the best things that could happen for the environment. Think of it as if you were buying a carbon credit.
thank you!!
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:13 pmit takes balls to admit that liberals, and democrats and progressives, might be wrong on the ‘must lower gas prices’ issue.
will there ever come a day when obama or clinton will say the obvious truth? and that is that higher gas prices will SAVE the environment.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:14 pmthat would pay for a lot of social programs.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 4:54 pm
In case you haven’t noticed—all your heroes are totally utterly opposed to social programs. They were cut back as much as possible under Reagan, GHWB, and GWB. They were even cut back some with Clinton and the Repug congress.
We have social programs in spite of conservatives, not because of them. Also, nothing is paid for!!! We are just piling on the debt. Currently at $9.1 Trillion. It was $0.9 trillion after the first 200 years of the US—ending before Reagan. $4.1 Trillion after twelve years of Reagan/GHWB. Current Bush is responsible for over 45% of US debt.
When we go totally bankrupt in 20 years and are taken over by the World Bank, there will be no social programs.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:16 pmkaty. I think Obama is the best political speaker I have ever seen.
speaking is one thing, but acting is another.
you think obama has the courage to raise gas prices?
i think not.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:23 pmLet’s see. Profit is up 80 billion dollars per year. We use, according to one Web site, about 146 billion gallons of gas per year. That means about 50 centers per gallon is pure profit. Sounds about right.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:36 pmAh yes… ms loon is here to share her **cough* “wisdom” w/ us.
Did you ride the bus to get here today, ms loon?
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:37 pmIt really makes one wonder what was discussed at Cheney’s secret meeting with oil (energy) executives in 2001…… and why he fought so hard to prevent the American public from even finding out who attended those meetings.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:40 pmWe do know there was at least one crook; Ken Delay was in attendance.
I support George Bush
surely, you must be joking?
Did you ride the bus to get here today, ms loon?
i don’t even use public, i bike or walk.
republic of stupidity,
if you are so wise, then tell us how you would solve the climate crisis?
i can’t wait to her this…..
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:40 pmWithout the businesses, where would the money for the projects come from?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
businesses no longer pay their fair share of taxes. money for the projects should come from fairly taxing the rich, which would mean doubling their taxes, at least. they’re the ones who benefit the most, they’re the ones who should pay.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:46 pmBefore we all lambast oil companies for making a hugh profit, let’s not forget a big portion of the money they make is used to run our government.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Uh, mr masterbastic?
http://www.usatoday.com/ news/ washington/ 2007-06-21-gopblocksoil_N.htm
GOP blocks tax hikes for oil companies
WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Republicans on Thursday blocked a $32 billion package of tax breaks for renewable energy that would have been financed mostly by new taxes on major oil companies.
Democrats came three votes short of overcoming a threatened GOP filibuster that was keeping the measure from being attached to a broader energy bill. Republican senators argued that the nearly $29 billion in additional taxes on major oil companies would have led to reduced production and higher gasoline prices.
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2007/ 02/ 16/ washington/ 16royalty.html
Another Energy Inquiry on Royalties Collection
Published: February 16, 2007
WASHINGTON, Feb. 15 — Top Democrats on the Senate Energy Committee, citing widespread management problems at the Interior Department, ordered a new inquiry on Thursday into the department’s fast-growing program to collect billions of dollars worth of oil and gas from companies that drill on public territory.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:55 pmI don’t think you’re here to “solve the climate crisis”.
You’re here to be an obnoxious pain-in-the-Cheney, and doing a very good job of it!
Anyone can make up whatever sort of nonsense they want when they post here, even you, when you claim to not even ride buses.
Suuuuure… you bike or walk… prolly even on water… **cough**
Go ahead, give us yer next bit of free wisdom, ms loon.
We’re all waiting breathlessly.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:00 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 5:59 pm
Pssst… masturbastic… over here…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth
However, if the federal taxation rate (”Individual Income Tax Rates and Shares, 2004.” (2006) published by IRS) is compared with the wealth distribution rate the net wealth (not only income but also including real estate, cars, house, stocks, etc) distribution of the United States does almost coincide with the share of income tax - the top 1% pay 36.9% of federal tax (wealth 32.7%), the top 5% pay 57.1% (earning 57.2%), top 10% pay 68% (wealth 69.8%), and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% (wealth 2.8%).
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:04 pmactually, republic, we’re waiting on your ideas.
i did ask you a question, which you clearly dodged.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:07 pmI don’t need to answer your pointless questions at all, ms loon. Again, you’re not here out of concern for the environment, you’re here to be an obnoxious pain-in-the-Cheney, and you’re succeeding wildly.
Your only real goal here is to be nasty, ya phony little creep.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:09 pmThe way to read this is that the wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 67.9% of the country’s individual income taxes. And yes, that 103% is not a typo - the bottom 40% in income as a group pay negative personal income taxes (because of the EITC).
http://www.coyoteblog.com/ coyote_blog/ 2004/ 10/ on_class_warfar.html
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 5:59
What does that have to do with big oil? and….
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:12 pmare you a shut-in or something?
You spend an inordinate amount of time commenting here.
You should get out once in a while and get some fresh air.
THERE ARE lots of taxes paid in this country BESIDES Income Tax.
Social Security Tax starts with Your first earned dollar, and it has been “Borrowed” to finance the rest of the Govt. Of course once you earn $97,000 your tax is ZERO on the rest of your income.
People who RENT pay ALL of the property tax on their apartments.
Poor people pay a lot of Sales TAX, Road TAX, and User Fees.
Warren Buffet pays a LESSER percentage of his income in taxes that his secretary pays.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:15 pmWhat masturbastic can’t comprehend here, flavorino, is that the bottom 40% pay “negative personal income taxes’” because they’re so F-in’ broke. Let’s go back to our firend Google for a second.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth
“In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation’s wealth.”
Man, that’s pretty ugly, huh?
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:16 pmAt least Warren has the decency to say publicly that he thinks that is wrong, Badger. If I recall correctly, he was roundly smeared by the righties for simply speaking up, too.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:17 pmhttp://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2008-0202-1.mp3
I heard something interesting here last nite, apparently Exxon is spending money buying back its stock, lots of its stock.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:18 pmWhere the hell’s my effing hydrogen filling station pump???
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:22 pmIs that what folks are calling Limbaugh these days, RU?
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:23 pmDumb Question: And what were oild company profits doing when Shrub and the Republican Congress got together and decided that the Oil companies need a special tax relief ?
Dumb Question 2: And what was Shrub doing to promote oil conservation ?
Dumb Question 3: And what has Shrub done (and what has big oil done out of their profits) to either develop alternative fuels and/or fuel conservation.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:24 pmQuestion One: Going Up!!!
Question Two: Fighting fuel efficiency standards!
Question three: Nothing, that I’ve heard of.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:29 pmGee, where’d masturbastic and ms loon go?
Tha conversation was jes gittin’ innerestin’.
Saaayyy… you don’t suppose?
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 pmAll these ‘top income earners are paying all the taxes statistics’ are based on the premise they all file a 1040-EZ and take the standard deduction.
Actually they all have a platoon of accountants and lawyers that reduce their tax obligation to someone making $17,000 a year.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm02 03 04 05 06 [Fiscal year]
5 6 9 18 29 [In billions of dollars]
Exxon is, by each year, and amount, above, is buying billions in its own stock.
Seems oil is to be found on wall street.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:31 pmWhere the hell’s my effing hydrogen filling station pump???
Comment by RUCerious — February 2, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
One way of dealing with the excess hydrogen is to inject carbon dioxide into the methanol synthesis reactor, where it, too, reacts to form methanol according to the chemical equation
CO2 + 3 H2 → CH3OH + H2O
Burning this Methanol releases no net Carbon Dioxide…and Methanol, Like Ethanol, is a liquid that will work in the gas tanks of cars without major retrofitting of gas stations to accomodate Hydrogen gas .
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:39 pmGood point, Clumberfeet.
When you take into account the interest deduction on mortgages, Keough plans, medical savings accounts, etc, the higher income earners have plenty of ways to shelter their money and lower the tax bite.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:44 pmYour only real goal here is to be nasty, ya phony little creep.
and yet your real goal here is to engage an interesting topic?
republic, you are as transparently ideological as the current idiot-in-chief, and i’m awaiting your “ideas” as to how to address the climate crisis.
so far, i have heard nothing substantive, just empty threats.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:47 pmIf people spent half the time using the web to research things, instead of listening to pundits, we would be much better off politically and economically.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:48 pmso far, i have heard nothing substantive, just empty threats.
Comment by darladoon
I have a few. One is to use switchgrass which produces more ethanol than corn or grain which would ease rising prices for corn and grain and is cheaper to grow [less pesticides etc]
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:51 pmI see reading comprehension is one of your problems too. I haven’t made any threats here today. I’ve never made a threat on TP.
You were 2 nights ago. You immediately started indulging in generalizations about “spoiled liberals” and what you fantasize “the average TP poster” is like, and proceeded to use your self-serving spewings as an excuse to issue blanket condemnations of everyone here.
Sorry, you gave it all up right then and there. Waaaay too obvious.
You’re not here to discuss climate issues, or debate.
You’re here to be obnoxious and abusive, and you get treated accordingly.
Yer a real laff riot, ms loon. Too bad the 1/2 hr Comedy hr is already off the air. Youse coulda been a contenda…
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:53 pmagain, nothing substantive. just more off-topic nonsense….from yet another spoiled white, male, pseudo-liberal.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:56 pmRiiiight… more self-serving generalizations.
You know NOTHING about me, other than I think yer a total phony, BUT, you have no problems indulging in stereotyping to justify yer nonsense….
BWAHAHAHAHA… yer givin’ it away fer free, ms loon. But, hey, you prolly have to… who would pay you fer it?
Keep it up, yer wildly entertaining.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:59 pmOkay, darladoon,[and all] lets skip the he said she said stuff, what ideas do you [anyone] have?
I like Badgers methanol idea, but what does it cost to run a methanol synthasizer?
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:00 pmi’ve been talking about ideas all day! here’s my idea:
in order to solve the climate crisis, americans must stop driving.
since, obviously, cars are causing it.
and republic of stupidity thinks that’s hilarious. and probably thinks the oil companies are causing global warming. or bush. i don’t know.
liberal web sites, such as TP, are horribly and transparently partisan and ideological.
this is why i like to challenge them.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:02 pmMethanol synthesizer? I think it’s called a ‘cow”.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:03 pmalternative fuel will not solve the larger, looming crisis, as more roads will be built, more congestion will occur, etc, etc.
the only real solution to global warming is: population control.
why? because progressive ecology is not cooperative with economic growth.
and one of the biggest challenges liberals will ever face is having to tell “2nd and 3rd world” economies that they have to reduce their populations and conform to 1st world sustainability practices.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:07 pmthis is why i bicycle everywhere. this i why buy only locally made products. this is why i don’t have children.
republic thinks this is “hilarious”, when in fact, i am the solution.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:09 pmthis is why i like to challenge them.
Comment by darladoon — February 2, 2008 @ 7:02 pm
I repeat, you’re a phony.
You don’t come here to debate or even discuss. You come here to distort and abuse, and that’s why I react to you the way I do.
Yer a fraud.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:09 pmMs loon, yer not the solution…
Yer a fraud.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:10 pmrepublic, show me an example of how i’m not here to debate. i dare you.
and, for the record, we are all frauds here. that is why you’re name is ”
republic of stupidity” and not, say, david.
you’re also afraid…..so very afraid….that everything you believe to be true………is actually…….false. you are WEAK.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:14 pmMethanol synthesizer? I think it’s called a ‘cowâ€.
That would be a Methane synthesizer. ;)
Seriously, there are lots of good energy sources…like the thermal solar power plant in the Mojave Desert. America is “Blessed” with huge desert areas, sunny and hot and perfect for solar energy.
The Problem: they are usually out in the middle of nowhere..with no wires running thru them. Wires also lose much of their energy over long distances.
The Solution: onsite hydrogen/methanol plants.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:17 pmmark my words: global warming will spiral out of control in the next 3-5 years. the effects will be BIBLICAL. trust me. BIBLICAL. every competent scientist knows it. and none of the so-called “democratic candidates” will do a thing about it.
does anyone honestly think that hillary or obama will ask americans to stop driving? do you think they’ll stand up to the timber/oil companies?
do you think hillary or obama will personally stop driving? i doubt it.
the ONLY thing that will stop global warming is:
for each and every earthling to drastically limit their carbon footprint. and even then we will be lucky to save ourselves.
and this is “hilarious”?
the only thing that is hilarious is watching these two frauds debate endlessly on CNN.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:18 pmIt’s okay.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 7:18 pm
F- you, masturbastic… yer as big a phony as ms loon.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:27 pmOh garsh, ms loon… you must be one ‘o them edumacated trolls, with a degree in pschocology, or sumpin…
Afraid, of you?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… yer funny, extremely funny.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:29 pmit’s abudantly clear that republic has nothing to add, and even worse, what he “contributes” to the discussion is scornful and repugnant.
which is typical of those who refuse to see another point of view….
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 pmWhat’s hilarious here is your endless attempts to sell yerself as something yer not. I remember you from a few months ago. You were an extremely nasty right-wing troll.
I don’t believe in the least that you’ve somehow turned a concerned, pious environmentalist since then.
Sorry, but yer… a fraud.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 pmYer… a fraud.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 pmit is up to individuals to save the environment, not the government, or the oil companies. oil is a dirty, dirty business. stay away from it.
Comment by darladoon
You certainly are a simpleton, aren’t you. You seem to believe that it will be very easy for every American to stop driving their cars and start walking. Well, unfortunately that is rather difficult in most of this country. I live 10 miles from my work. There is no way to get to my work by bus. I am 60 years old. So you think I should walk the 10 miles to my job?
Big oil is very complicit in the mess we are in economically. Watch “Who Killed the Electric Car” and come back here and tell me that our current oil crisis is all our fault.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:34 pmthe only real solution to global warming is: population control.
Comment by darladoon — February 2, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
From the Population Surprise by Max Singer:
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99aug/9908popdrop.htm
FIFTY years from now the world’s population will be declining, with no end in sight. Unless people’s values change greatly, several centuries from now there could be fewer people living in the entire world than live in the United States today. The big surprise of the past twenty years is that in not one country did fertility stop falling when it reached the replacement rate — 2.1 children per woman.
Because in the past two centuries world population has increased from one billion to nearly six billion, many people still fear that it will keep “exploding” until there are too many people for the earth to support. But that is like fearing that your baby will grow to 1,000 pounds because its weight doubles three times in its first seven years.
The solution to population control is Modernization and Women’s Rights.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 pmCongratulations folks. Another thread turned over to a couple of trolls.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:37 pmObviously, the oil companies don’t need anymore Corporate welfare.
Time to make them pay their share of taxes.
Comment by DieNowForPeace
we can’t have that. That would be discrimination. When repubs talk about doing away with welfare they are talking about taking it away from human beings…..you know the ones that eat and get ill and need shelter….the suseptible ones….not the huge companies who exist only on paper…..
if one poor person gets it then all coporations should get it whether they need it or not…..just like wealthy people insist on drawing their social security whether they need it or not………
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:37 pmbilbo has discussed this and so have I but some want to play with the trolls and insist it be allowed…….I have been doing what bilbo suggested and just talk about them. Not engage them directly…..seems to defuse them usually.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:39 pmYou certainly are a simpleton, aren’t you. You seem to believe that it will be very easy for every American to stop driving their cars and start walking. Well, unfortunately that is rather difficult in most of this country. I live 10 miles from my work. There is no way to get to my work by bus. I am 60 years old. So you think I should walk the 10 miles to my job?
try this logic on for size (this is indisputable logic):
greenhouse gases are the primary cause of global warming
greenhouse gases emanate primarily from motorized vehicles.
if we eliminate, or reduce, motorized vehicles, then we eliminate, or reduce, global warming.
can you even begin to dispute this logic? i didn’t think so.
you live 10 miles from work?! oh my! and you’re 60?! omg! you’re so, so old. i don’t know how you managed to get all the way to 60. gee, that must be an all-time record!
big oil has NOTHING to do with the mess we are currently in. what do you expect big oil to do about it? lower the price of gasoline? redistribute the money to the world’s poor? what?
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:45 pmwhat do you expect big oil to do about it?
Comment by darladoon
stop gouging poor working class families for profit……..mandated and regulated because no bookie will regulate themselves fool.
this message was addressed to the board and not to the troll. Approved by me
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:52 pmYou are right on here.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
a troll wedding is in order…….roll out the barrell……..just like bush….if you get two of them together, they think they have a mandate.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:54 pmDarladoon…
Motorized Vehicles are not THE primary cause of Greenhouse gasses, although they ARE a major source of Carbon Dioxide. Power Plants and the aforementioned Cows are significant sources of Greenhousew gasses as well.
And a plug in hybrid vehicle that gets it’s electricity from Solar, wind, geothermal, even nuclear (BOOO) would not release Greenhouse Gasses.
The problem is TRANSPORTATION, not motor vehicles. Americans, given the proper incentives, are smart enough to figure this out.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:54 pm“greenhouse gases emanate primarily from motorized vehicles. â€
I think this is incorrect, but I’ll check it out.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
you do that mister and get back with us in about 50 or 100 years…..we’ll be waiting for your word on this…….
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:55 pm“a troll wedding is in order”
l o l , fred …
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:57 pmI wouldn’t consider you and Fred trolls. :)
Comment by CaptainMantastic
maybe one of these days they will wake up some morning under a bridge……
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:58 pmstop gouging poor working class families for profit……..mandated and regulated because no bookie will regulate themselves fool.
so they must be really gouging european families, then? or is it ok, since they are more concerned about air pollution, global warming, noise pollution, congestion, etc, etc?
Motorized Vehicles are not THE primary cause of Greenhouse gasses, although they ARE a major source of Carbon Dioxide.
of course you know that this is what i meant. power plants, obviously, too. but not NEARLY as much as 1 billion vehicles, 24 hours/day, 365 days/year.
vehicles are, without a doubt, the primary cause of the problem we are in. no scientist disputes this.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:58 pmput your face in front of a tailpipe (i do it every day on my bike)….
now multiply that x 1 billion.
and then get back to me.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:59 pmso 22 (cars/trucks) + 12 (planes/trains) = 34%
i was right. it is the highest.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:00 pmheh, the trolls are acting like they are having an intelligent conversation…….I can see them both behind their computer screens…copy and pasting as fast as they can so they can make their riduously incorrect point(talking point only..not a real point)first.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 pmso, to recap:
planes, trains, trucks and cars are the highest emitters of carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas responsible for most of the world’s warming.
ergo, if we eliminate planes, trucks, cars and trains, then we reduce carbon emissions.
ergo, we reduce most of the world’s warming.
you think i’m crazy?
well, then why is london charging SUV drivers 50 pounds to drive into the city?
you think it’s just about congestion? thing again.
why do you think california is suing the feds to be able to put caps on carbon emissions?
cuz they are serious. and we’re talking about a republican (arnold).
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 pmit’s funny, i’m the troll here? i’m actually MORE liberal than thinkprogress people……and i’m the troll? now that’s hilarious!
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 pmso 2 (trolls) + 12 (lies) = 100%
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 pmyou know, captainmantastic and i, although we probably disagree on a lot, are at least expanding the discussion in new and interesting ways.
and we’re trolls because we don’t spout the thinkprogress party line?
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:05 pmfred,
where are the lies?
inform me, please.
try and dispute my logic above. i dare you.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 pmwhat do you expect big oil to do about it?
so they must be really gouging european families, then? or is it ok, since they are more concerned about air pollution, global warming, noise pollution, congestion, etc, etc?
Comment by darladoon
yep, your a troll……..too
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 pmtry and dispute my logic above. i dare you.
Comment by darladoon
in the words of the immitable Bart Simpson “Eat my shorts” I don’t do legwork for trolls….do your own research and get back to me when you’ve made the appropriate corrections to your logic path.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 pmit’s not rocket science trolls…….read the article at the beginning…….it’s about shameful profits on the backs of Americans……at the expense of working class families…..we know you big shots aren’t harmed by it and that is why you cannot claim to be a progressive……..
you defend big oil and you want me to take you seriously…..seriously?
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:11 pmfred, i don’t understand you.
here is the logic again, no research is actually necessary in this case, and any of the variables contained within can be adjusted to fit the degree of severity (less warming/more warming) you are looking for:
carbon emissions are the primary cause of global warming
carbon emanates primarily from trucks, cars, planes and trains.
if we eliminate, or reduce, trucks, cars, planes and trains, then we eliminate, or reduce, global warming.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:13 pmyou know, captainmantastic and i, although we probably disagree on a lot, are at least expanding the discussion in new and interesting ways.
and we’re trolls because we don’t spout the thinkprogress party line?
Comment by darladoon
yep, this is not a place for the right wingers to get together and chat…..you shouldn’t be here. I can’t get rid of you or I would. I will not entertain your bullshit however.
Oh, and I don’t think your conversation is all that new or entertaining……fyi
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:14 pmit’s not rocket science trolls…….read the article at the beginning…….it’s about shameful profits on the backs of Americans……at the expense of working class families…..we know you big shots aren’t harmed by it and that is why you cannot claim to be a progressive……..
so the “progressive” solution is to……? what? i’m curious, tell me.
MY solution is to: not give my $$ to big oil.
and therefore, i’m a troll.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:15 pmyep, this is not a place for the right wingers to get together and chat…..you shouldn’t be here. I can’t get rid of you or I would. I will not entertain your bullshit however.
and i’m a right winger because i’m offering a common sense solution to reducing carbon emissions?
now if anything is right wing, then that is it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:16 pm141 off topic……flaged for abuse. The subject of the thread is Big Oil companies shamefully large profits.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:16 pmdefintion of troll:
anyone who disagrees with thinkprogress.
you know, it’s funny, but george bush surrounds himself with people with agree with him. anyone who disagrees with bush? fired.
sounds a lot like thinkprogress, doesn’t it?
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:18 pm141 off topic……flaged for abuse. The subject of the thread is Big Oil companies shamefully large profits.
so, big oil profits and global warming have no relation whatsoever?
if thinkprogress wants to censor discussion, then here we have the seeds of authoritarianism.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 pmThis is darlaLOON’s tact here… take a subject matter that posters do care about, like global warming, and deliberately head to the most extreme position imaginable -
if we eliminate, or reduce, trucks, cars, planes and trains, then we eliminate, or reduce, global warming.
Comment by darladoon — February 2, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
If we don’t agree w/ ms loon, we “don’t care”.
If we agree, we give “her” just what she wants (eliminate cars, trucks, planes, trains) - it makes us look like we agree w/ Bill Clinton when he ’says’ we must slow our economy, and therefore, we’re all unpatriotic, unamerican phonies who simply hate business… blah, blah, blah…
Sorry, ms loon is just posting strawmen, over and over again.
Ms loon is a right wing troll, and that’s all.
Yer waaaay toooo transparent, ms loon. Waaaayyy toooo!
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 pmwhat do you expect big oil to do about it?
Comment by darladoon
stop gouging poor working class families for profit……..mandated and regulated because no bookie will regulate themselves fool.
Comment by Fred
so they must be really gouging european families, then? or is it ok, since they are more concerned about air pollution, global warming, noise pollution, congestion, etc, etc?
Comment by darladoon
hmm…..so, troll, how does that last statement level with your high and mighty argument that you are here to discuss? Sounds like a distraction from the facts and totally irrelivant…..just as I have seen a thousand times.
You guys can come here but I will not stand by and let you run your scam on a thread without interupting……so go ahead and keep trying…..I’m ok/your ok
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:23 pmdarladoon if you want to have a private conversation with captainmantastic then you should get his number and meet him at the airport. I think he has his own private stall.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:25 pmKeep slapping them down, fred.
I’ve been at it all afternoon and my tendons are starting to bark. Sheez, someone check and see if there’s a full moon. The loonies are out in force at TP today. High tides? Bad weather?
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:26 pmBig oil executives will have no problem affording to drive.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:26 pm“the significant standards of living… for the poor alike…”
Riiiight, masturbastic… they git a better grade of garbage to fish thru.
It’s shame the 1/2 Hr News Hr is already off the hair. Yer a natural.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:28 pmI gave the example the although Exxon’s rising revenues increase profits, they consequently increase tax revenues.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
who’s stupid now Cap? gawd, I just can’t believe you can even man up enough to say this knowing you don’t have to look anyone in the eye while you’re saying it……if we were face to face I guarantee that you could not keep a straight face…..I know I’m laughing in your face either way.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:29 pmFred, when you do this, you sound like a second grade tattler.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
your kind started running from my kind about then and you haven’t stopped runnin yet…….
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:32 pmThe rich oil executives will gladly buy your house if its cheap enough.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:32 pmYou have the freedom to pick a bridge to camp under that is walking distance to a grocery store you can’t afford.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 pmOil profits like that are like a tax without representation.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:35 pmOr alternatively:
You are at a rock concert , on a hot day, with no carryons. You discover that the lemonade that cost you a dime to make, and which you were selling for a dollar can be sold for 5 bucks a pop because there is nothing else to drink and people are thirsty.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 pmIf the government would stop throwing tax breaks to oil companies and instead seriously use incentives for innovation towards other sources of energy, then perhaps there would be greater supply and competition would drive down prices. But no, the GOP lead Government only seriously promote big oil.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 pmRiiiiight, masturbastic…
keep tryin’… somewhere, there’s a poster slow enough to be fooled by yer nonsense. Sorry that person isn’t HERE fer your sake.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 pmThis is TRIPLE, 300%+ increase in profits.
Where’s the money going? Into banks?
Follow the money.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 pmlemonade stands come……lemonade stands go……..a new one will pop up tommorrow somewhere if it’s needed……it’s calle capitalism.
lemonade is not worth $100 a barrell.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 pmCapn decided to go do his lemonade enema.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 pmThis is TRIPLE, 300%+ increase in profits.
Where’s the money going? Into banks?
Follow the money.
Comment by Isis
It is called war profiteering and it is illegal under any other administration except this one.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 pmFollow the money.
Comment by Isis — February 2, 2008 @ 8:45 pm
I’d bet a fair chunk is being donated to politicians who will play ball with the Oil industry.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 pmGee, ya think, jb?
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 pmWe need a windfall profits tax, but how. And war profiteering should be banned retroactively.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 pmGOP governance has reduced us to a nation of oil and arms. Everybody else can enlist or live under a bridge.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:52 pmComment by CaptainMantastic
thought you took your zanex and whiskey and went to bed?
you must have done those things but just haven’t gone to bed yet as you’re not making a lot of sense…..oh yeah, I forgot
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:55 pmUnregulated capitalism is the most abusive system.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:56 pmGeez, I thought masturbastic had said good bye for the night.
Ya cain’t believe anything he says!
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:07 pmIt’s not capitalism if you regulate the price or limit the profit.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Corporations regulate prices, not demand. Furthermore, corporations regulate the need of people to get a product by publicity. Or the cell phone is really really vital for 12 y/o kids or even for you? Before cell phones it was really difficult to meet your friends for a cup of coffee, I guess.
Furthermore, there is no free market here. Could you possibly compete with Wal-Mart? Nahhh, free market is an illusion. There is just a bunch of superpowerful corporations trading goods between them. That’s why all the fusions are about.
Capitalism…yeah.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:15 pmNow, you don’t have any more money than anyone else. You’re all equal. And you’re all equally thristy.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
I missed that. What a bunch of nonesense.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 pmIt’s not capitalism if you regulate the price or limit the profit.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 8:51 pm
Unregulated capitalism has been a disaster anywhere it’s ever been tries.
Hell, even Adam Smith didn’t believe completely unregulated capitalism was a good thing.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:18 pmCapitalism is like fire….beneficial but dangerous when uncontrolled.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:22 pmCapitalism is a game, and like all games, it needs rules.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:26 pmWho wants total capitalism anyway. Not even republicans want private police or firemen….we’ve already established that we need a mix now we just have to settle on particulars……..reminds me of a joke…
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 pmThe cops are socialists.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:38 pmThe cops are socialists.
Comment by jb
yeah but don’t tell anyone because socialist is a bad word, remember.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:48 pmBush’s Budget Would Rival The Record Deficit of 2004
Washington Post - 1 hour ago
By Michael Abramowitz and Jonathan Weisman President Bush will present a budget tomorrow that would slow the growth of Medicare and cut or eliminate an array of domestic programs but still anticipates a flood of new red ink that will rival the record …
Bush to Seek Budget Cuts, Except in Child Health New York Times
Bush budget cuts health programs Seattle Post Intelligencer
i’m sure there’s help in there for big oil though…
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:56 pmIt’s not capitalism if you regulate the price or limit the profit.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 8:51 pm
It’s called capitalism with regulation. You’ve been sniffing too much Milton Friedman hiney…
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:30 pmMISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 2, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
Low oil prices are in their last throes, if you will.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 pmcapitalism:
“Economic system characterized by the following: …and free market forces determine the prices of goods and services. Such a system is based on the premise of separating the state and business activities.â€
It’s not capitalism if you regulate the price or limit the profit.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — February 2, 2008 @ 8:51 pm
Oh dear…you aren’t suggesting that Bush has exhibited socialist behavior, are you? (I would suggest he’s a closet socialist, but my post might end up on Gibson’s radio show).
Let’s take a trip back in time…
Bush at one time also wanted to allow the market to control prices, instead of government involvement.
But that was before he halted deposits into the SPR in 2006:
I remind especially the Bush lovers here that this was a move that he refused to take in 2004 during his re-election campaign:
And, it was before he denounced the same move by Clinton in the 2000 election campaign:
Heh.
(Source.)
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pmHeard recently about a Reich Wing zombie who was supplementing his income by disrupting progressive websites. He reportedly works on a piece rate, receiving a set amount for every posting that is directed toward him. It is apparently worth good money for whoever is paying him to prevent fruitful, uninterrupted discussions about substantive matters.
This guy is allegedly earning so much money by moonlighting that he is considering resigning from his day job.
Keep directing those responses to the trolls, after all, you wouldn’t want to be responsible for any of them needing to reduce their standard of living, would you?
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 pmPoint #9: Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
“Nothing is more pitiful than a nation being swept along by fools.”
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 amKeep directing those responses to the trolls, after all, you wouldn’t want to be responsible for any of them needing to reduce their standard of living, would you?
Comment by curmudgeon — February 2, 2008 @ 11:17 pm
How else can they afford to buy gas, or heat their homes, or buy the food that has traveled half way round the globe?
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 amOr as their fearless leader says, “Put food on their families.”
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:24 amjust found an old note-to-self:
Leadless Fearer
something i picked here, i suppose…
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:21 ampicked UP here…
g’nite now…
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:22 amOil prices have increased 50% over the last 2 years since Exxons last record year of profits of 36 billion, yet their profits have increased only 11%, or 5% adjusted for inflation over 2 years. The increase in revenue from oil price increases should be close to 100% profit so they should have well over 50 billion in profits if not 60 billion.
There sure are record profits, but they sure as hell are not going to pay the tax on it by declaring what they actually are. They shift the profits to their subsidiaries in the tax havens while shifting the costs of drilling for oil elsewhere in the world to US, which lowers their profits. This is called tax evasion and lands regular people in jail, but Exxon never gets audited since the Big 5 accounting firms who audit them for a big fee and say all looks to be in order here, wink, wink, and their evasion is thus certified. All the multinationals do the same thing, thats why our government is broke.
The people pay more tax for Exxon gasoline with the gas tax than the tax Exxon pays on their “declared” profits. Time to wake up.
February 3rd, 2008 at 2:04 amhttp://ccoaler.blogspot.com/ 2008/ 02/ why-job-market-is-even-worse-than-you.html
job market showin signs of long term recession
February 3rd, 2008 at 2:34 amCan someone tell me why oil companies aren’t supposed to make profits? I’m serious - I never understood the argument for undercutting these companies, no matter how high or low their profits may be. We’ve seen historically how windfall profits taxes backfire, right?
February 3rd, 2008 at 3:04 amOil companies are supposed to make profits, but I don’t want the US government to force me to pay taxes, then turn around and give that money to the oil companies. I’ve already paid them enough at the pump, thanks.
It’s is long past time to end tax breaks for oil companies. A company that makes solar panels has to pay a tax rate that is double what the oil companies pay. How in the hell is that fair? Our government has been bought wholesale by those with most money, and that is the oil companies.
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:57 amHey folks…Yes they made a huge profit. You know how many stock holders like me made out as well? Do you realize that succesful companies like the oil companies make thius economy thrive? It is the American way. God Bless them. WE all should have high profit companies like this. I love how you Libs hate big companies yet these very same compaines supply health benefits, income for families, invest in charitable causes, and invest in R&D for our future. But you guys want to make them out to be a bunch of Nazi’s. Let me ask you…if you were an executive in these companies what would you do? Reduce your salary as a good person? You know you wouldn’t.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:01 amMike
http://mtaricani.blogspot.com/
I want to be completely clear on this. I know I’ve had vigorous debates with people on this blog, and I can fairly be described as right of center on economic and defense matters. But I’m open minded to arguments about why this story is a bad thing. Furthermore, I’m unconvinced that any of these industries, especially oil, should be subsidized, whether directly or indirectly via tax breaks. I’m open to arguments on either side - they should be subsidized, they should be taxed more and regulated more, etc. - so if I anyone can make a strong case, please do.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:06 amUS pressures Germany to engage in combat in Afghanistan
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:25 amWe’ve seen historically how windfall profits taxes backfire, right?
Comment by thirdparty — February 3, 2008 @ 3:04 am
When? Windfall profit taxes are a small price to pay for not freezing the poor to death, or forcing the working people out of jobs because thay can’t afford to get to work. And it is certainly long past the time that CEOs should have their salaries and benefits capped. this insane runaway capitalism will destroy the USA as surely as runaway communism destroyed the USSR, and runaway fascism destroyed WW2 Germany and Italy.
February 3rd, 2008 at 9:54 amif you were an executive in these companies what would you do? Reduce your salary as a good person? You know you wouldn’t.
Mike
http://mtaricani.blogspot.com/
I would most certainly vote for salary caps for executives. But, unlike you greedy fascist sympathizers, I have a conscience, and I don’t need extra millions in unearned profits to prove my self-worth. You are arguing from a position of weakness, and weakening your country as you do so.
February 3rd, 2008 at 9:56 am201
see 2008 election
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 am200
you are considered part of the 28% that love bush…..most Americans have no stock.
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am200 & 201 We were so glad to hear from the priveliged of our country. Why don’t you consider trying to be an American instead of just worrying about yourself for a change…….Monopolies are unamerican and illegal…….why is that so hard to understand?
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:16 am200 & 201
and we will be taxing your asses off come 2009……better save a little something back.
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am