Hayden: waterboarding may be illegal.
Earlier this week, CIA director Michael Hayden left open the option of reinstating waterboarding. Yet in a House Intelligence Committee hearing today, Hayden said that agency lawyers are unsure of the legality of the tactic:
It [waterboarding] is not included in the current program, and in my own view, the view of my lawyers and the Department of Justice, it is not certain that that technique would be considered to be lawful under current statute.
Watch it:
Hayden told the committee that he “officially prohibited CIA operatives from using waterboarding in 2006 in the wake of a Supreme Court decision and new laws on the treatment of U.S. detainees,” the AP notes.
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ooops, Hayden, your new assignment orders are on the way.
Enjoy Southwestern Afghanistan!
February 7th, 2008 at 6:08 pmThe military in charge of the CIA is more than stupid.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:09 pmHayden: waterboarding IS illegal.
Has been illegal and anyone who has engaged in this sort of activity in this Administration and the HIGHER UPS (Bush/Cheney) should be taken out of office and put on trial for their crimes.
Buck Fush
February 7th, 2008 at 6:10 pmThe military in charge of the CIA is more than stupid.
Comment by leftcoast — February 7, 2008 @ 6:09 pm
Yeah. Tell me again why a four-star general is running the Agency.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:19 pmDidn’t Congress just pass a law strictly forbidding the use of waterboarding? Or was I dreaming?
February 7th, 2008 at 6:26 pmYeah. Tell me again why a four-star general is running the Agency.
Comment by gummitch — February 7, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
Because they all work for the same company
Exxon/Lockheed/AIPAC/AT&T Inc.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:26 pmDid he unofficially say it was ok if we really really needed to use it?
February 7th, 2008 at 6:28 pmDid he officially prohibit contractors of the CIA from using it?
Did he say it was ok if milk , or urine, or some other liquid was used instead of water?
We (our government) have prosecuted people for waterboarding. So, please tell me when it became legal?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 11/ 02/ AR2007110201170_pf.html
February 7th, 2008 at 6:28 pm“…under current statute.”
riiiight…
kinda changes things when the public has the correct information…
February 7th, 2008 at 6:31 pmsunlight… aaahhhhh… …or, as bushco might say: AAAAAaaaaach!!!
Only another reason why “independent” organizations of the United States government SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT!
February 7th, 2008 at 6:36 pmThe next time Hayden shows up in Congress wearing his uniform, he should be escorted back out of the door. We have civilian control in our form of government - not some monkee wearing a shiny soldier suit.
The militarization of our government must stop.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:40 pmAmen, StratRat. Monkey in a soldier suit.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:42 pmWell, he didn’t know that “probable cause” was in the 4th amendment, so maybe he really isn’t sure if torture is illegal or not.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:44 pmTo try waterboarding, I sat in my bath tub, turned on the shower and adtusted it to hit my face. Then I draped a wash cloth over my face.
Upon trying to inhale my first few breaths, I got the point, i.e. I knew I’d die if I didn’t take off that wash cloth.
The same experiment could be done jn the Senate shower room for interested members…..
February 7th, 2008 at 6:58 pmThe twisted logic used by the current officials in addition to the “I don’t knows” and the “I can’t recalls” are simply unacceptable in a democratic government.
This is all the more reason why a Democratic administration is absolutely necessary in 2009.
From Nieman Watchdog:
February 7th, 2008 at 7:02 pmThe next President will have the authority to declassify and disclose any and all records that reflect the activities of executive branch agencies. Although internal White House records that document the activities of the outgoing President and his personal advisers will be exempt from disclosure for a dozen years or so, every Bush Administration decision that was actually translated into policy will have left a documentary trail in one or more of the agencies, and all such records could be disclosed at the discretion of the next President.
why do you suppose that is?
YIPPIE KI YAY moonbats
*bert
Comment by BERT CONVY
Because we care about OUR COUNTRY, creep. I don’t care what anybody else does with regard to their behavior - it is OUR BEHAVIOR which we have control over - NOT THEIRS.
Why is that so hard to understand? Remember when you asked your parents to go somewhere and they said no? Remember how you said that Bobby or Sally or Jimmy is going (whine, whine). The answer you got was probably along the lines of: Just because they do it, doesn’t mean you have to. Please try and keep your head in the game.
BYW: I knew Bert Convy, and you are no Bert Convy.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:09 pmI just flagged bert, I recommend the same. This talkingpoint has been refuted repeatedly. If it wants to argue something new, fine, but post 16 is a waste of time.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:10 pmOkay, so here’s what they’re saying:
‘It’s illegal, we’ve done it in the recent past, as the records show,
but we’re not doing it anymore so that makes what we’ve done in the past okay.’
Doesn’t that equate to:
‘Yes, I killed someone last year but I promise I won’t kill again so
February 7th, 2008 at 7:22 pmI should be free from accountability’.
Looks like Hayden really wants early retirement (or a trip to the desert).
February 7th, 2008 at 7:30 pmAh, were you being help upside down and forced by angry interrogaters at the time?
February 7th, 2008 at 7:34 pmwaterboarding may be illegal
And there are unconfirmed rumors of papal Catholicism.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:39 pmWHo cares if it’s illegal???????????????????????
Fight fire with fire, libs!
February 7th, 2008 at 7:44 pmWHo cares if it’s illegal???????????????????????
Fight fire with fire, libs!
Comment by John Kerry
Only true patriots who care about the constitution and the sacrifices that our fathers made during WWII.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:48 pmTo Keith H: No, it is not the same, and that is not exactly what they are saying.
“Whatever was done as part of a CIA program, at the time that it was done, was the subject of a Department of Justice opinion through Office of Legal Counsel — and was found to be permissible under the law as it existed then,” Mukasey told the House Judiciary Committee.
Whether it was just some memo from the Executive Office or some actual point of law, waterboarding was, apparently, deemed “legal” but the CIA at some point.
It matters not that waterboarding is “immoral,” “known to be torture,” or whatever. If there was some “opinion” from the highest echelons of government that there was authorization, it was, well, authorized.
What happens now, or should happen, is that many lawyers need to go over every aspect of every memor and opinion from all legal councils to find if indeed some real law or procedure has been violated.
The past Executive Branch Legal Council thought that during time of war the President could by Executive Order do basically anything. That is where the real battle should be.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:50 pmWHo cares if it’s illegal???????????????????????
Fight fire with fire, libs!
Comment by John Kerry — February 7, 2008 @ 7:44 pm
Won’t that result in more fire? I think I will continue to fight fire with water
February 7th, 2008 at 7:54 pm*yawn*
Such a tiresome and arrogant — and aggressive — attitude. Problem is, it is pervasive in our government, our police, our pundits, our history, in fact.
On a personal level, at times, such an attitude will be deemed okay, such as protecting your person, your family, your property. But beyond that… where should the line be drawn?
But, this is not the place for a philosophy class.
But in terms of waterboarding, Dershowitz is, I think, kind of, sort of, perhaps right, in that in those rarest of rare, one-in-a-million cases where it is perceived that torture might work — maybe it should be done. But ONLY if it then is brought out in the open and those in charge, those giving the order, stand up and are held accountable.
I am saying maybe, mind you.
The thing is, this DID happen. Yet NO ONE is standing UP. NO ONE involved from the President to Legal Counsel to Secretary to whatever, is EVEN GIVING A STRAIGHT ANSWER!
Only a coward says we should “fight fire with fire” and then sit back and do nothing when his ass is on the line.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:09 pmGood point dbadass, John Kerry would fight STDs with more STDs, and he must wipe his ass with more shit.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:10 pmthe CIA has no right nor power to deem ANYthing “legal”…
waterboarding is torture and torture is illegal.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:11 pm#30
No. But the point is this is about an order to waterboard.
When a CIA or military person gets an order he or she must either obey or refuse (and face court marshal).
It was, IMHO, an illegal order. But who am I? A nobody.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:16 pmComment by Bobwurst — February 7, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
Strategic use of controlled burns would be a valid retort but I think I may be blowing that possibility by typing this.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:16 pmComment by John Kerry — February 7, 2008 @ 7:44 pm
WHo cares if it’s illegal???????????????????????
Fight fire with fire, libs!
John Kerry has lost touch with humanity. He is no longer human. Perhaps after therapy he can rejoin the human race. Till then, this creature without a species, does not deserve any response.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:39 pmWAR CRIMINAL!
February 7th, 2008 at 10:22 pmWHo cares if it’s illegal???????????????????????
Fight fire with fire, libs!
Comment by John Kerry
Obviously, you need to use the same tactics as your enemy.
Like how during WWII the US used torture on prisoners, killed civilians as reprisal to attacks on soldiers, used both POWs and civilians as slave labor, and brutally treated and murdered hundreds of thousands of POWs.
Yep. America was just like the Germans and the Japanese.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:25 pmNo one can argue in good faith that water boarding is legal. It is a crime against hummanity in violation of international law. The Nuremburg cases and the Japanese war crimes trials levied criminal liability upon the accused for these acts based upon the actions being a crime against humanity. It was not based upon US statute. It was irrelevant. Waterboarding was considere a crime under US law when done by a US soldier during the Phillipine conflict.
The latest defense by the Bush administration is reliance upon the advice of counsel defens. It is a defense that arose out of complex business regulations that were hard for an individual to understand. SEC, tax, EPA and other such areas provide excellent examples of where an individual has benefited from the defense. Never has it been used to justify what have been traditionally call mala in se crimes, i.e. the very nature of the action makes its nature apparent.
The reliance on counsel defense further is predicated upon a reasonable reliance on the legal advice by the person taking the action. In otherwords, a legal opinion in and of itself is not sufficient. The president and his minions will argue that the nature of waterboarding as torture is ambiguous. Given a jurisprudential history in the United States os over one hundred years that water boarding is illegal, one must argue that such reliance would not have been reasonable. The second argument is the president had the right under Article II of the constitution to violate US and international law or that it was reasonable for those carrying out the orders to rely upon such an opinion. But was not that issue resolved by the Nuremeburg proceedings after WWII? The whole point was to prevent any defense to crimes against humanity by asserting that orders came on high.
Even assuming that one could assert the reliance on counsel defense as to those carrying out the orders, there is the matter of the attorney writing the opinion. This is not a matter of a little legal malpractice. It is a matter of an attorney writing an opinion to authorize and shield those who committed a crime against humanity. God, I wish that I had had such power when I was a prosecutor and later a government attorney.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:34 pmJohn Kerry has lost touch with humanity.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:34 pmThanks Merlin! I was thinking of something to right about this idiot, but you are spot on!
Imbecils like that don’t realize that approving waterboarding/torture and not abiding to the Geneva convention, American soldiers are at risk of going through the same ordeal… I bet this guy, if he is not CIA checking on blogs, he lacks the courage to wear an uniform!
…and I bet he beleives that the USA is winning the war on terror… 5 years after the imbecil in chief declared ‘mission acomplished’…
February 7th, 2008 at 10:39 pmOf course it is illegal, it has been prosecuted by the US internally and externally.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:21 pmTroll goon_golly states as though it were fact that “Just 3 high level terrorists were waterboarded “. First off, we have no way of knowing how many DETAINEES were tortured. They have so far admitted to 3 and only 1 of those, as far as I can see, was considered a high level detainee. Goon uses the monikor “terrorist” because he refuses to believe or admit that his Government would actually torture innocents. Problem is, without charges and a trial who’s to say that these men were in fact terrorists?. His assertion that we haven’t done it since has yet to be proven. The destruction of evidence, the stonewalling, the obstructions to investigation and the lawsuits of several men who were released by there American captors have sworn that THEY were tortured as well. Goon-golly’s blind faith in this Administration leads him to believe whatever they say. Unfortunately for him and the Administration there are less and less people buying the bull shit that they are trying to sell to us.
February 8th, 2008 at 8:34 amWHo cares if it’s illegal???????????????????????
Fight fire with fire, libs!
Comment by John Kerry — February 7, 2008 @ 7:44 pm
Spoken from the Liberal posing as a Neo-Con. This gets funnier every day. Don Rickles did the same schtick. Everyone thought Rickles was an ahole, but underneath was a true blue nice person.
Again, that’s for the entertainment John Kerry!!!
February 8th, 2008 at 9:15 am