1. Get out of Iraq.
If We Pull out of Iraq we will save Billons a month,(which we could put towards the other steps) and as for security, if we have our boys at home that will really increase our national security…(and maybe a few special ops tactical forces back in the middle east just to prevent genocide and the such,)

2. Invest in Green Industry.
Since the Middle East has most of the oil in the world and we buy most of it, the big Arab oil companies are SUPER RICH! America should stop sending any aid to the Middle East WHATSOEVER! They have the cash to fix their own poverty problems. If American invests and green industry such as Solar Panels, we could really reduce the dependency on oil. Think of it! We would highly educated people to make and design the panels. Not to mention installing, maintance, repair…and it’s not just the solar power. Think of wind farms, hydrogen cars, and recycling. Those could employ millions of Americans.

3.DO NOT SEND MONEY TO EVERYONE!
If every one gets $1,200 doesn’t that mean that the value of the dollar will go down? Think about it. We will start to see that every thing is going to cost $1,200 all of the sudden. Use that money to buy those Americans solar panels, or put it towards heath care.

4. STOP rewarding bad behavior.
The system stinks and it effects everyone. I think it’s really sad that a 15 year old pregnant girl gets free healh care to deliver her baby and another girl who is getting loans to get through collage (basically paying for everything herself) can’t get simple coverage!

Please remember I am only a junior in high school, and I want to know what you intellectuals think of my plans to fix America…

One, the article you posted is from 2002, before we knew that Bush had no intention of leaving the country.

Two, the article negects to mention all the off-budget spending that took place, which easily made the total seem smaller than it really was.

If you’re thinking this bit you posted proves – or even suggests – that war spending isn’t responsible for the recession, you haven’t proved the case. Not, at least, with with an article from ‘02, before the war even started.

Comment by barfly — February 9, 2008 @ 10:58 am

I want to be clear about this. I posted the article to demonstrate two things: 1) the argument for how WWII stimulated the economy; and 2) how, theoretically, the Iraq war does the same. This has played out in practice, but I never argued that it is at all comparable to the massive boost of WWII.

thirdparty is another troll you guys actually listen to them……I can’t believe it.

tell me that the trillion dollars spent on Iraq would not have fixed our health care system if properly used……think that might have helped our economic woes?

Comment by Fred — February 9, 2008 @ 10:30 am

Fred, maybe people listen to me and give me a fair shot because they aren’t as closed-minded like yourself.

You are correct that we could spend money differently. But the question is whether the war has added to the recession; it has not, because oil would be high anyway and, as we’ve gone over, there is a significant demand boost from wartime production.

This also doesn’t take into account the huge numbers of private contractors, something no previous war had. To attempt to equate other wars with Iraq just doesn’t compute. It’s quite a different story, in terms of the money spent (both on, and off budget) than WW2, the Korean war, or Vietnam. Perhaps it was true of previous wars, but Iraq is an entirely different kind of beast.

Comment by barfly — February 9, 2008 @ 11:04 am

I agree that Iraq is much different front those wars. But I’m suggesting that , like war in general, it has boosted demand for certain things, and thus has added to the economy via Keynesian theory. But position, like Paul Krugman’s, is that this reality is coupled with another reality – that Iraq isn’t really linked to the recession whatsoever.

As Krugman said, “One thing I get asked fairly often is whether the Iraq war is responsible for our economic difficulties. The answer (with slight qualifications) is no.”

The one area where you might consider Iraq as contributing to recession is oil. But Krugman states that, “high oil prices are a drag on the economy, and the war has some — but probably not too much — responsibility for pricey oil. Mainly high-priced oil is the result of rising demand from China and other emerging economies, colliding with sluggish supply as the world gradually runs out of the stuff.” Even if you argue the war has added to rising oil costs, which is true, it’s really unlikely that it had a big effect. Oil would still be incredibly high if we hadn’t gone to war.

Countries? Outside of Iraq, where else are troops going to pull out?

Oil was $22 a barrel right after Sept 11, 2001. The Saudi’s, ratteled by the terrorist attack and economic disruption, flooded the market with oil.

This was before we lost the moral highground and world support by invading Iraq. This was before we rejected Iran’s offer to help us fight terrorism and provide stability for the middle East, by the Axis of Evil speech.

And there is a lot of daylight between abandoning a country and occupying it.

While the US has upped the CAFE standards, we will still use a lot of it for awhile longer, so we can’t afford to abandon those countries yet.

My point is that not all sectors of the economy are suffering under the Bush Presidency. Unfortunately for the overall economy, all the dollars flowing into the defense industries are TAX DOLLARS.
No PROBLEM with a Single Payer System for Defense Contracts.

Tool Fool Troll Jason doesn’t think that the price of oil has already gone through the roof? He’s too stupid to see that we have destabilized the region by invading Iraq. We have done NOTHING to stabilize the middle east. It’s time for us to get out of the middle east and stop minding other people’s business. If we start minding our own business once again, I expect that the animosity the people in the middle east feel towards us will diminish.

Loon Tracy totally ignores the fact that government spending has doubled during the rein of her hero Herr Bush. This and some other bad economic decisions have driven us into a recession that might just end up a depression. But to loons like Tracy, this is good economics. I will suggest that loon Tracy is the one that doesn’t know anything about economics.

What?? Our current presence in Iraq AND the Bush administrration’s Middle East policy is having a detrimental effect on oil prices???

Well, that can’t be right.

Because it would refute the whole “we need to stablize the Middle East by keeping troops in Iraq” argument.

Ok, I’ll bite. What would we then use to run this country? Are you one of those who wants to privatize our government?

Comment by Jason M. Hendler

What “instability” would occur?
The amount of oil coming out of Iraq right now is barely at pre-2003 levels.

How much of an impact would a US withdrawl really have on oil production in the country?

And instead of comparing Iraq to WWII, how about a comparison to Vietnam?

Comment by barfly — February 9, 2008 @ 11:06 am

Good point, barfly, but then, most of Jason’s points are nonsense.

Interesting how those who defend the notion that the war spending has no relation to the recession fail to acknowledge the deficit spending inevtiably spawned waging such a war as this, while cutting taxes at the same time.

They also disregard the massive practical differences between this occupation and WWII, in which the entire nation was mobilized for the war effort, including more than 10% of the US population. This effort resulted in an unemployment rate of less than 2% in 1945.

By contrast, the deficit war spending for Iraq has had little to no impact on unemployment, the effort has touched relatively few Americans directly, and the increase in production for military contractors has been fairly well isolated from the economy at large. All factors completely opposite the environment during WW2.

But the biggest impact has to be the deficit spending, which leads to more borrowing, which leads to less confidence abroad in the US economy, which leads to less investment, which leads to stagflation. We’re not there yet, but it’s just over the next little hill.

If you like Bush’s War & Bush’s Economic Disaster — Vote McCain

Comment by Jason M. Hendler

Since the Saudis are already talking about raising prices to curtail US demand, your point is nonsense.

Comment by thirdparty

This also doesn’t take into account the huge numbers of private contractors, something no previous war had. To attempt to equate other wars with Iraq just doesn’t compute. It’s quite a different story, in terms of the money spent (both on, and off budget) than WW2, the Korean war, or Vietnam. Perhaps it was true of previous wars, but Iraq is an entirely different kind of beast.