Former Navy airman describes ‘water torture.’
Former Navy airman describes ‘water torture.’
Today in the Washington Post, Richard E. Mezo, who served in the Navy for six years, describes his experience being waterboarded:
Last week, much to my dismay, government officials testified before Congress that the United States has used the interrogation technique known as waterboarding and would like to hold out the option of using it in the future. As someone who has experienced waterboarding, albeit in a controlled setting, I know that the act is indeed torture. I was waterboarded during my training to become a Navy flight crew member. [...]
Waterboarding has, unfortunately, become a household word. Back then, we didn’t call it waterboarding — we called it “water torture.” We recognized it as something the United States would never do, whatever the provocation. … Waterboarding is torture, and torture is clearly a crime against humanity.
Former Justice Department official Daniel Levin, who was voluntarily waterboarded in 2004, came to similar conclusions about the procedure.
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It’s not torture if you don’t call it torture, ya see.
A∞Ω 1984 speak.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:21 pmSo proud to be an Amerikan these days.
The GOP couldn’t have screwed up our country more. Wait, I take that back, we still have too many days for them to make that end game screw up.
If only I could awaken to this having been a really bad dream.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:23 pm“Waterboarding” sounds like a good time on the waves at the beach.
It used to be called “water torture”. Renaming it doesn’t make it different.
George Bush used to be called “a drunk”.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:25 pmFrom now on we should call it what it is.
Water torture…..
Just like the Healthy Forest Initiative and the Death Tax, the GOP-ers took the framing of this issue.
It is water torture.
-GSD
February 10th, 2008 at 3:25 pmMukasey will be cross-referenced in history books, under “torture:” and “illegal wiretapping: in defense of.” For decades hence, school children will name him in class as the second-most morally, intellectually and legally corrupt individual to ever stain the office of Attorney General.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:30 pmAnd torture is a tool of terrorists….ergo…..
February 10th, 2008 at 3:44 pm“Waterboarding is torture, and torture is clearly a crime against humanity.”
– - And the unhinged response from the Right would go, “And so is flying airplanes into buildings killing thousands of Americans.” We’re becoming who we’re fighting.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:48 pmWaterboarding sounds A-OK if you are a bedwetting coward with no moral compass, and know it won’t happen to you because your authoritarian leaders would only ever do it to your “enemies”.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:48 pmWater based extremely enhanced interrogation method?
If it sounds like torture, looks like torture, hurts like torturel, it doesn’t matter how you try to spin it.
It’s torture…
February 10th, 2008 at 3:49 pmI am waiting to see the trolls show up and defend the practice. We will never really put an end to the Orwellian use of language until such time as the politicians (Democratic) and media refuse to follow the Ministry of Propaganda’s lead in calling these crimes what they are: TORTURE. We are reaping the rewards of having permitted the Raygun White House avoid responsibility for Iran Contra and other various scandals. The Democratic leadership believe they have acted in the best interest of the republic. They are wrong. The Republican elite will not learn the right lesson from their past scandals. Instead, they are always willing to place the republic in peril to gain their ends and to enhance their power. The Democrats enable this conduct. Indeed, it will make the ultimate price paid by our government and people much higher when the Republican fascists must be brought to heel.
February 10th, 2008 at 4:01 pmYet another day where America’s reputation in the world sinks even lower….
How many years is it going to take to unfu(k this country, once king george and the G.O.Pigs are done?
February 10th, 2008 at 4:01 pmH20WWWWW!!!
February 10th, 2008 at 4:02 pmHow many years is it going to take to unfu(k this country, once king george and the G.O.Pigs are done?
Comment by GL2814 — February 10, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
My best estimate is about two decades.
February 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pmBack then, we didn’t call it waterboarding — we called it “water torture.â€
Again, This Administration is just playing with semantics. By pretending it’s NOT torture, they maintain that it;s legal…
Could someone give GW a BJ so we can Impeach him?? Please???
February 10th, 2008 at 4:13 pmPart of the problem with all the back and forth about whether or not waterboarding is in fact torture is that the core discussion has itself become waterboarded – watered down, contextualized and nuanced to death.
If you picture three or four guys in hoods are standing over a someone strapped on his back pouring water into his nose and mouth – it’s pretty clear that that what you’re seeing is torture whoever the guy may be that’s strapped to the board.
Once we begin to contextualize it – “oh, but the guy is a terrorist…”, we completely depart from the essential fact that such conduct is, at its very core, completely UNAMERICAN.
http://www.FEARandSMEAR.com
February 10th, 2008 at 4:18 pmIt is only not torture to the sick f-ks that want to use it.
Unless you use it on them, that is.
Since we have prosecuted people for waterboarding, from a legal standpoint it is torture, and a War Crime.
February 10th, 2008 at 4:27 pmWaterboarding by any other name would be so torture.
February 10th, 2008 at 4:33 pmHow low we have sunk under Bush&co.
Nomenclature for interrogation practices has to be parsed and then redefined and then denied, then equivocally admitted, in defiance with the Bush &Co. addition that “we’d do it again.”
The procedure has been designated as torture for hundreds of years, globally condemned, yet Bush (the guy who took pleasure blowing up frogs as a kid) obviously gets his jollies from the thought of torture.
Anyone who supports WATER TORTURE (or any torture for that matter) is a war criminal.
A line from the movie JFK:
Jim Garrison: “Treason doth never prosper,” wrote an English poet, “What’s the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
February 10th, 2008 at 4:34 pmCLINTON”S campaign Mnanger is replaced.
This is a sure sign she is SCARED and her coronation is NOT going as well as the plan she laid out!
http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org
February 10th, 2008 at 4:46 pmClinton’s campaign manager , Pattt Solis-Doyle, is demoted, but will remain with the team.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:06 pmHow will this sit with the Latino vote?
My favorite one, which I found recently.
in 1983, the Federal Government tried and convicted a sheriff and his deputies for waterboarding a prisoner. The sheriff served 10 years for doing this.
Beyond that, this government has succeeded in changing the argument from the acceptability of torture to the acceptability of one type. Who knows how many other techniques they’ve used?
Plus, as is typical with this administration, you have to watch how the parse their words. They are now admitting to waterboarding three people. At NO point do they talk about the people that they’ve turned over to other countries to have that country do the torture.
UN Human Rights Commissioner came out on Friday. Said it is torture AND it would be acceptable if some country arrested and tried anyone thought to be involved in authorizing the practice. Anyone want to send Georgie off to Venezuela?
February 10th, 2008 at 5:07 pmTime to bring charges against Bush & Cheney for crimes against humanity. This needs to happen now before any further discussion of whether waterboarding is torture or not occurs. Waterboarding is torture and against the law in this country. There’s nothing to discuss further except for charges against these war criminals in the white house.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:09 pm*shakes head*
and wonders where the America that I grew up in went.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:11 pmThe Bush Cabal “game” is to try to finagle language and if one doesn’t ask a very specific question, they get lies. These con men are pros in the art of double speak. This is what’s happening in discussing torture. They want to now begin to define different types of waterboarding when ANY waterboarding is torture. We cannot permit them to do this or we will lose any shred of credibility this country has left internationally.
Every type of water torture IS torture. Discussing it any further than necessary to bring criminal charges against those upon desk this buck stops (Bush & Cheney) is simply playing their game of “evil semantics”.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pmLibertyLover – This country already is unrecognizeable to us following the Bush Crime Spree against our Constitution. If he is given another year, there will be no recognizing it any longer AND the prospect of reversing the destruction and damage will be extremely difficult. We can see how much more damage he does with his SOTU speech lies and reverals within 7 days of making the promises to the american people. We see how he bastardizes the laws passed by Congress by his infamous (and probably illegal) signing statements. We see how his stooge, Murky Mukasey is only there to protect and cover Chimpy’s sorry ass. He certainly doesn’t work for the people and basically admitted it in the hearings. Down with Mukasey – he’s no better than Gonzo. We have no DOJ under Mukasey since he’s made the contempt charges against Miers and Bolton null and void. The people need to call for his resignation immediately. He’s nothing but a Bush pimp.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:16 pmgolly_golly: Good advice – now take it yourself.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:17 pmGolly: And don’t bother posting links because no one gives a flying horses pitutie about your allusions and illusions.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:18 pmSo a crime committed five years ago is not a crime according to certain morally deficient people who don’t believe in the rule of law (but who do believe the lies their leaders tell them). Funny, I haven’t heard about a statute of limitations for torture. Is there one? I don’t think so. But I guess the “principle” being suggested here is that if you are able to abuse the power of your office to cover up your crimes for a certain amount of time, you get to go scot free. But just so long as they don’t find out about the more recent crimes that you have not yet admitted.
Time to move on.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:22 pmOh, and I also get a distinct whiff of the stench of extreme moral relativism in the room.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:23 pmLet us also remember the many suspects rendered to other countries for torture after being stripped of habeas corpus. And remember too the 80+ suspicious deaths, many classified as homicides, of people being held in custody without habeas corpus, and without charges ever being made known to them.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:25 pmLet us ask, what is the morality of “moving on” when a “rare” but heinous crime has been committed and the perpetrators identified? Are we not a society of laws? Do we not prosecute and punish known lawbreakers? Or are certain people treated to a different standard, exempt from following our laws, despite the equal protection clause of our Constitution? Do we call it a “dead issue” when a woman or child has been raped, and say “let’s move on”? I think not. At least not according to my values and ethics, and those of the majority of Americans. It is any less bad to torture human beings than it is to rape them? Where does the backsliding to barbarism stop?
February 10th, 2008 at 5:36 pmWe have become the KGB.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:37 pmAfter all, serial killing is “extremely rare”. Is that a basis for ignoring the crime?
Want to commit a heinous crime and get away with it? Just choose something extremely rare, that is expressly banned by the CIA. That appears to be the recipe here for getting away with a crime.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:38 pmComment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 5:29 pm
It’s too bad that you don’t want to be informed, whatevah. If you were informed, you may be able to learn to move on and progress from a dead issue about an extremely rarely used interrogation method that hasn’t been used in 5 years and is expressly banned by the CIA.
Then, from what you say, if a person murdered someone 5 years ago, but not after, then we should simply move on and pay no heed to the crime. After all, the murder was a rarely used technique and is expressly banned by law.
Explain to me the difference between these two scenarios.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:41 pmGood golly, Li’l good_golly is one obstinate, repulsive, PAID troll.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:41 pmg-g can’t, Merlin. The explanation didn’t come w/ his latest “talking points” memo from the RNC.
g_g’s an f-in’ parrot. If it ain’t on the page, it’s not in it’s head.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pmI believe in the rule of law, because without it we are lost. We are no better than barbarians. I believe in upholding the Constitution, because it has been the bedrock of success of our way of government for over 200 years. It is precisely what has made us better than other governments. To abandon constitutional principles puts our country at grave risk, and those who do so stand the risk of becoming traitors to the principles upon which this country was founded. It is grave and perilous path indeed.
And yet there are those who would. These are the people who believe that two wrongs make a right. These are the people who believe that the ends always justify the means. These are the people who degrade the status of other humans to something less than human beings. These are the people who abandon any pretense of following religious principles.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:44 pmThe easy thing about not having principles is that you never have to work to follow them. That is the easy path, the morally and intellectually lazy path, the path taken by the weak of spirit.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:46 pmTorture has never been legal in the history of our country. Torture cannot be wished away by redefining the language. Despite all their attempts to pervert the language, Nazi leaders learned that the hard way at Nuremberg.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:48 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 10, 2008 @ 5:41 pm
Good golly, Li’l good_golly is one obstinate, repulsive, PAID troll.
It would have to be PAID to argue like this! No one with free will and even a drop of compassion could justify this tortuous behavior. This is called “black capitalism” in my book. Taking money from the most evil of people to whom you have just sold your soul.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:49 pmThose who sanction torture always start with high-minded but specious arguments in its favor. When confronted with the falsity of their logic, their faux-legal arguments are always stripped down to two very simple and morally repulsive rationales:
Two wrongs make a right. The ends justify the means.
But even these rationales fall by the wayside. Then they must degenerate into mendacious liars, saying that torture isn’t really torture at all.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:52 pmgood golly never ceases to amaze there is nothing bush can do that gg won’t make excuses for.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:52 pm.
A rose by any other name(enhanced interrogation),
Is a rose(TORTURE) just the same.
“We have meet the enemy, and it is us.”
.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:55 pmThis little b*st*rd is lying thru his teeth.
The Democratic party controlled Congress passed military commissions legislation in September which provided retroactive legal protection to those who carried out waterboarding and other coercive interrogation techniques.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2006/ 10/ 04/ AR2006100402005.html
It was passed in 2006 by the GOOPer controlled Congress, you lyin’ POS. Hell the date in the article you “quoted is 2006.
WhattanF-in’fraud!
http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TortureisUn-American/FAQs:MilitaryCommissionsAct
After several weeks of wrangling between the Administration and Congress, on Friday September 29th, Congress passed the Military Commissions Act of 2006.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:57 pmOrdinary people tell little lies all the time, so if you tell a little lie, they will know it. Therefore tell big lies instead. Then ordinary people will believe it, because they, being decent people, would be far too ashamed to tell such a lie, and will assume the same of you.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:57 pmComment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
There is no difference between them. Your trying to skirt the issue by verbal dancing (certain variations!) does not change anything. Your reasoning would say lynching is not illegal if they used nylon rope instead of hemp! Controlled torture is torture no matter what variation you use. And water torture has been, and is, illegal.
For how many pieces of silver did you sell your soul.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:57 pmGod condemns torture. Jesus condemns torture. Yahweh condemns torture. Allah condemns torture. Waterboarding is torture, then, now, and forever.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:59 pmYour MASTER Satan awaits you…
Good one, Arn. I don’t believe in Satan, but if I did, he would certainly be a player in this wicked saga. Let’s just say I believe in a metaphorical Satan.
February 10th, 2008 at 6:06 pmHow interesting… g_g gets caught in a blatant lie and takes off running.
February 10th, 2008 at 6:28 pmVK, you really need to try to keep up here. The Democratic party controlled Congress passed military commissions legislation in September which provided retroactive legal protection to those who carried out waterboarding and other coercive interrogation techniques. There will be no prosecution here thanks to your Democratic party controlled Congress. If you don’t like it, vote those Democratic bastard out. Otherwise, it is time to move on.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2006/ 10/ 04/ AR2006100402005.html
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 5:43 pm
On October 4, 2006 the Republicans held a majority in Congress. Good try asswipe!
February 10th, 2008 at 6:30 pmI already nailed his smarmy *ss on that one, Walt!
February 10th, 2008 at 6:32 pmRoS,
February 10th, 2008 at 6:35 pmSo you did, sorry, I missed it.
That’s all right, Walt. There’s nothing quite like a second solid boot to the groin to really express mail that point home… :-D!
February 10th, 2008 at 6:40 pmThey deserve this and MORE!!!
Comment by John Kerry — February 10, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
So after the 1st string (g_g) humiliates itself by getting caught in a blatant lie, the RNC tries to play catch-up by putting the bench warmers in the game…
Sorry, JK, but yer comment is just a load of irrational, empty hyperbole.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:00 pmJohnnie, when ya donna make any sense, laddie, ya best shut yer trap…
February 10th, 2008 at 7:06 pmNice work, polar bear. :)
February 10th, 2008 at 7:08 pmIt will be time to move on as soon as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and the rest of the barbarians start the life prison terms for crimes against humanity. Then we can all move on. Until the evildoers are prosecuted and punished, we must keep this issue in front of the public, especially since it gives such palpitations to the rightarded trolls who come here to spew their ignorance and treason.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:10 pmThey deserve this and MORE!!!
Comment by John Kerry — February 10, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
they’re going to Disneyland!
February 10th, 2008 at 7:11 pmThank youuu… thank youuu verrry much…
I saved that one off, and everytime g_g shows up, I’m a-gonna cut ‘n paste that li’l beauty, over ‘n over again!
It’s like you said last night, Z… when you catch a troll telling a whopper, it’s yer civic duty to nail ‘em good. :-D!!
February 10th, 2008 at 7:11 pmIt’s like you said last night, Z… when you catch a troll telling a whopper, it’s yer civic duty to nail ‘em good. :-D!!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 10, 2008 @ 7:11 pm
Yep!! The harder, the better. :-)
Pissing contests are useless, and much less satisfying.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:13 pmcatching good golly in a lie is easier than catching a cold in February.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:14 pmMay be true, Lefty, but it was still a satisfying “kill”.
I got him dead to rights. He actually shut up and took off running!
Right, Z… that endless “I said-you said-you said-I said” drives me crazy after a while. There’s just something so… **satisfying** about nailing a troll like g_g w/ his own words.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:18 pmWaterboarding, beheading are the same. You get nothing from it.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:22 pmWHy don’t you libs give this crap up about torture!! What kind of pussies are you? Your nice little terrorist friends are laughing at you cut and run cowards. Fight fire with fire! Who the hell cares if we torture these barbarians??? They deserve this and MORE!!!
Comment by John Kerry — February 10, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
Now this is some quality shit! Thanks John Kerry
February 10th, 2008 at 7:26 pmAt the Caucus yesterday in Washington, I did a speach for Obama for our district, I told them about how Hillary would not commit to not using torture, and how Obama said he absolutely would not use it…it turned the four undecided to Obama. Our district 5 Obama, 3 Clinton.
It is torture and the unamerican scum sucking Nazicons who think it is ok, need to be removed from society.
Buck Fush
February 10th, 2008 at 7:28 pmComment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
so you get paid for this, huh?
thought so.
(weekend cut short or did you forget your parking pass again?)
February 10th, 2008 at 7:29 pmI think JK went to attend a troll pep rally, along w/ g_g ‘n the rest of the gang, dbadass. Check the last stall on the left, the Men’s Room, down at the airport.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:30 pmThey deserve this and MORE!!!
Comment by John Kerry
You just can’t get anymore immoral, and subhuman scum than this, nice job there JK, I will keep that quote to show friends and family just how vile your types are.
Eat sh!t and die, JK
February 10th, 2008 at 7:33 pmC’mon, folks, quit feeding the trolls exactly what they want: attention.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:36 pmignore kerry, it brings nothing to the table. gg at least attempts sophistry, so if you want to play wack a troll pound on gg.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:36 pmI wonder how our trolls will feel with a democrat in the Whitehouse and 75-80% majorities in the House and Senate? Do you suppose their heads will explode if we pass laws with retroactive provisions for the Bush administration illegal actions?
February 10th, 2008 at 7:42 pmHey look… JK is back from the pep rally!
February 10th, 2008 at 7:44 pmNothing worse than a whiny troll.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:49 pmIt must be harder ‘n Hell bein’ a troll these days, Z…
How would you like to have to get every day and defend the latest load of insane horse crap from the mouf of Herr Brusch, over ‘n over ‘n over again ‘n put up w/ all those “libruls’ laughin’ at ya, ‘n all fer minimum wage ‘n no benes?
Permanent GOOPer majority? HAH!
February 10th, 2008 at 7:54 pmPersonally I think that before any official can deny it is torture or refuse to call it torture, they should have to go through it.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:55 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 10, 2008 @ 7:54 pm
**tiny violin playing for trolls**
February 10th, 2008 at 7:57 pmLOL, good catch RoS. Need to pound golly_goofy with that lie every time it pokes its head out of its hole.
Kinda weird goofy dropped off and JK popped in on queue. Troll shift change or sockpuppet change?
February 10th, 2008 at 7:58 pmAgreed, bilbo.
Perhaps some of our resident trolls, like g_g, or JK, would bravely volunteer?
Sonata for Tiny Violin and 2 Whiny Trolls, Z?
February 10th, 2008 at 8:00 pmI’m personally guessing the Coach benched g_g fer blowing the play so badly, ‘n JK is the 2nd stringer…
February 10th, 2008 at 8:01 pmGee, maybe JK should first convince Bush to care where Osama was…seems to me he doesnt want to waterboard that barbarian Osama.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:06 pmYour beating a dead horse here. Although the U.S. performed a moderated form of “waterboarding†on three high level Al Qaeda suspects over 5 years ago, it hasn’t done so since 2003 and it is now against CIA policy. Move on.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/ theblotter/ 2007/ 11/ exclusive-only-.html
Comment by good_golly
Our resident troll GiGi has now defined waterboarding as “a moderate form of waterboarding”. So what, exactly, is a moderate form of waterboarding? It (GiGi) is also unclear on the concept that it was illegal when they did it and it is still illegal. Since he thinks we have stopped waterboarding prisoners (something that is doubtful), he thinks we should just forget about it and move on. I guess that it will have no problems if a Democratic president flagrantly breaks the law.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:06 pmDuring occupation of the Philippines in 1889, US soldiers were court-martialed for water torturing prisoners. This has been illegal for a long time and many examples of people prosecuted, including a Texas sheriff sentenced to 10 years in 1983.
We should not even have to have this discussion and the Bush Administration should be in jail
February 10th, 2008 at 8:12 pmIt is ludicrous that there is any “debate” at all.
It is f-king illegal, period.
VK, you really need to try to keep up here. The Democratic party controlled Congress passed military commissions legislation in September which provided retroactive legal protection to those who carried out waterboarding and other coercive interrogation techniques.
Comment by good_golly
Goon Golly sure is missing the point tonight, isn’t it. I have no problem with giving the people who carried out the waterboarding retroactive legal protection. What I want is the person who authorized the heinous crime prosecuted and that would be George W. Bush. I would have a hard time prosecuting someone who was operating under a direct order by the President of the United States. I do not hold the person doing the crime responsible if he was ordered to do so by a higher authority. That’s why I was furious when none of the people who ordered the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Garib were prosecuted, only the grunts who were following orders (some a little too gleefully, though).
February 10th, 2008 at 8:14 pmSo by G-G’s twisted logic, 9-11 happened over 5 years ago so it is time to forgive bin Laden and give him back his membership to the republican golf club. Also, since 9-11 was among one of the false reasons used to invade Iraq we can now bring the troops home.
Where does the rnc get these people?
February 10th, 2008 at 8:15 pm42. Merlin: Murder is and always has been illegal. Certain variations of controlled waterboarding, on the other hand, has not always been illegal. Moreover, the Democratic controlled congress has provided retroactive legal protection to those who carried out waterboarding. See the difference?
Comment by good_golly
Does anyone besides me see a trend here? The RNC knows that they have no basis on which to defend waterboarding so they are telling their minions to go out there and say that it was “controlled waterboarding” or a “moderated form” or waterboarding. That way they can say that it wasn’t illegal because it wasn’t a “full on waterboarding”. What a bunch of lying sacks of shit.
Perhaps trolls like GiGi can tell us why it was illegal when a US sheriffs performed waterboarding and was put in jail for it, but then magically it somehow became legal when GWB took office.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:17 pmTrolling reported since that is (in my own opinion) a more constructive response than trying to engage them …
February 10th, 2008 at 8:18 pmWell if you were going for best of 3, that settles it.
Best of 5 ? The jury’s still not in.
This is bad news for the 0% of readers here who are still sitting on the fence on the question of whether waterboarding constitutes torture.
Comment by Kilo — February 10, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
Please go ahead and get waterboarded, kilo, and then give us your “expert” opinion on whether it constitutes torture.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:29 pmSonata for Tiny Violin and 2 Whiny Trolls, Z?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 10, 2008 @ 8:00 pm
Heh. It’s a classic. :-)
February 10th, 2008 at 8:33 pmWhy do these trolls hate Navy Airmen telling the truth? Why would anyone be willing to compromise the integrity of the USA to use a torture technique which does not provide reliable information? Use of torture also compromises any future prosecutions in a court of law as any info obtained by torture is not admissible. Supporting torture is very Un-American.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:35 pmYeah, but we got new laws and stuff that say it’s ok. So that makes it ok, right?
February 10th, 2008 at 8:47 pmOT. Sorry, new to this board. RE 107: Just wanted to state our troops must be brought home and receive the proper care that has been denied to them by the republicans.
Water boarding, water torture that is, is a practice carried out by depraved individuals. As stated above, little to no real information of consequence is ever obtained. Those in charge must be held accountable.
Pax
February 10th, 2008 at 8:51 pmYou are beating a dead horse here. Although the U.S. performed a moderated form of “waterboarding†on three high level Al Qaeda suspects over 5 years ago, it hasn’t done so since 2003 and it is now against CIA policy. Move on.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
Is it OK to waterboard a U.S. troop, even with a “moderated” form?
February 10th, 2008 at 8:52 pmnew to this board.
Comment by LiberalVoter — February 10, 2008 @ 8:51 pm
Welcome aboard.
February 10th, 2008 at 8:54 pmnew to this board.
Comment by LiberalVoter — February 10, 2008 @ 8:51 pm
Welcome aboard.
Comment by Wayne — February 10, 2008 @ 8:54 pm
Ditto!
February 10th, 2008 at 8:59 pm‘There will be no prosecution here thanks to your Democratic party controlled Congress.â€
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 8:55 pm
…. At the dire risk of the future of their party, there will be no prosecutions, you mean.
I don’t think people that remember Watergate and Iran/Contra will sit quietly by if they let them go this time.
I sure won’t. I will be helping the new 3rd party, the Democrats will lose my vote forever. Neither party should survive if that is the case.
War Crimes are War Crimes, Period.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:03 pmIt is not o.k. for either side (â€US or the terroristsâ€) to waterboard.
But but but but but but……
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
The troll mantra…..but
February 10th, 2008 at 9:04 pmComment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
War Crimes are War Crimes, Period.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:07 pmI strongly encourage you to help that new 3rd party Wayne. Go for it. With a lot of hard work, you might manage to pull in 2% of the popular vote.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
In the words of the greatman, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. – “We Shall Overcome”.
Evil must always be fought against.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:11 pmI see the new troll talking pooint re: waterboarding is “the CIA only did it three times and hasn’t done it in five years”.
Point number one: IF you believe them.
Point number two: if GiGi had sex only three times five years ago, that don’t make her a virgin today.
Point number three: let’s assume point one. That’s the CIA accounted for. Great. How about military intelligence? How about private contractors who operate in our name?
(NOTE: please excuse the wildly outlandish postulate that our troll GiGi has ever had sex. With another person. It was just for the sake of argument.)
February 10th, 2008 at 9:15 pmSo, Military commissions act is a law, repeal the law when we get the FULL COngress in Nov.
Then we can prosecute anyone back from the point of passage backwards again. No prob. See the law cuts both ways G-G.
As with JK, the only terrorists ARE the Neocon, so I say just use water torture on them until they crack. I would pay to turn the bucket.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:17 pmArrest, try and HANG Bush and Cheney.
YES WE CAN!!!!!
February 10th, 2008 at 9:18 pmThe troll mantra…..but
Comment by Zooey — February 10, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
Or…butt, a kind word for ass.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:19 pmGoon golly sputters:
“CIA only did it under controlled conditions on 3 high level Al Qaeda terrorists”
So, it was on “3 high level terrorists?”
ANd we know they are “3 high level terrorists” BECAUSE….?
They admitted so under torture.
AHHH I see you have sprung a leak.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:21 pmI am going to give Obama my vote, in the hope he will not let war crimes slide. If he goes along, he will be the last Democrat I will vote for. I already won’t vote Republi-Crime Inc.
Nixon got off, the Democrats caved, Ford pardoned. Guilty Nixon officials filled the Raygun Administration. Raygun got off, the Democrats caved. And then Raygun’s corrupt officials filled the Shrub’s Administration.
Anyone stupid enough to not see a pattern here?
February 10th, 2008 at 9:23 pmONce again the g-g states the inappropriate.
“99Luf. Thank you for demonstrating the hypocricy [sic] of the Left.”
The “hypocrisy” spoken of must have been g-g’s desire to throw out the assumption that we can just vote out the law of the Military Commisions act. Of course we can. YES WE CAN! And since as it was NOT the Dems who voted it in. Ergo, no hypocrisy.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:24 pmHey, Golly. Had those 3 high level terrorists been convicted in a court of law? Or were they “suspected” terrorists who hadn’t seen the inside of a court room? Just wondering…
February 10th, 2008 at 9:25 pmI apologize for my obvious error in this post. The Republicans did hold a slim majority of Congress in 2006 when this legislation passed, but 34 Democrats approved the measure in the House as well.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 8:55 pm
I knew it! I just knew this smarmy, prevaricating little POS was off counting votes, trying to cover it’s greasy tracks.
No, your premise wasn’t correct. Yer just a lying POS, and that’s all you are.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHA…
You… got… BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-D!!!
February 10th, 2008 at 9:25 pmSo, supposedly since 34 Dems voted for the unconstitutional Military Commisions act, we have to stand by for the remainder of eternity.
I think not.
We can enact NEW legislation REPEALING it.
YES WE CAN!!!!
Say is with me Goonie Golly
February 10th, 2008 at 9:28 pmYES WE CAN!
YES WE CAN!
YES WE CAN!
YES WE CAN!
The Supreme Court has already ruled once that retroactive imunity is unconstitutional.
I posted that when I was the first to bring the Military Commissions Act and it’s
secretprivate signing to the attention of this blog.An honest judge would through it out.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:28 pmComment by Wayne — February 10, 2008 @ 9:28 pm
Ahhhh…the good ol’ MCA. The one that Bush thinks would be fine if other countries adopt, and hold our troops indefinitely and put them on trial while withholding evidence from their defense.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:31 pmOh no, no, no, I have no problem with doing to those who claim that it is NOT torture.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:31 pmI have always said, I would rather just have it to be OK to kill all Republicans in the street.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:32 pmThus, it is a dead issue and time to move on.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
February 10th, 2008 at 9:33 pmNot even close. Despite any legislation which purported to provide immunity, consideration should be given to revoking that immunity. Those who participated need to be brought out of the shadows they inhabit and should be compelled at the very least to describe the exact actions they took and exactly who ordered them, and who at the top may still be liable for imprisonment. This will be a very large part of the investigation into just how badly this farce of a president has damaged the nation he was selected to run.
I could give shit about you. You ahve shown your contempt of our way of life. You are worse than Freddo. You are now rotting flech suckling off the teat of Lady Liberty. I no sooner excise that which is rotten, than let it fester to become something MUCH worse.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:33 pmThus, it is a dead issue and time to move on.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
No, it’s time to get a real liberal congress and overturn that stupid, anti-American ruling, and bring Bush and Cheney and crew to justice for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Sweeping these crimes under the rug weakens America, which is why rightwingnut traitors like good goober are all for it. it’s time for America to stop playing mini-3rd-reich.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:35 pmThe hypocrisy is your desire to waterboard your political opponents.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
No, I want criminals on trial for crimes commited. It is possible some Democrats or recent Independents need to be put on trial too.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:35 pmBy the way, where’s hillbilly? I guess he’s WAY tougher than the wussies covered in this article. Isn’t a good waterboarding part of his daily constitutional?
February 10th, 2008 at 9:36 pmThe person coccupying the Whitehouse needs to be brought out into the open, and judged for the crimes he has committed, or allowed to be committed in his name. Or stood by and gave cover to be committed by others, namely Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice, Negroponte, et al. There is nothing redeemable about any of them. Their organs are not even worthy of continued living.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:36 pmThey are dirt to me.
And you too for supporting the, obvious to a schoolgirl, traitors.
NOTHING. Hence, the issue is dead.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:34 pm
And as everyone has seen, tne repuiblican treeason rank and file will allow nothing to be passed that doesn’t enrich their pigs at the trough, so the dems are not to blame for the immoral stance of the US government at this time. once we decimate republican ranks, the rule of law will be returned, and we will prosecute war criminals to the fullest extent of the law. That is real “moving on”.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:37 pm141. That’s fine marlow, but what has your Democratic controlled congress done in this regard? NOTHING. Hence, the issue is dead.
Comment by good_golly — February 10, 2008 @ 9:34 pm
February 10th, 2008 at 9:38 pmIt ain’t dead by a longshot, pal. If a role was played by craven democrats, that will be exposed too. The world will know of the scumbaggery of this administration, democrats notwithstanding.
“once we decimate republican ranks, the rule of law will be returned, and we will prosecute war criminals to the fullest extent of the law. That is real “moving onâ€.”
YES WE CAN!!!!
February 10th, 2008 at 9:38 pmthere is no Democratic-controlled Congress, becasue there is no democracy in the US any more. that is the first thing that will change in January ‘09. Democracy and freedom will be returned to the USA.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:39 pmI love this totally irrational throught process of Goonie:
“That’s fine marlow, but what has your Democratic controlled congress done in this regard? NOTHING. Hence, the issue is dead.”
What does one have to do with the other? Acts were committed, a secret law, and an unconsitutional one was passed supposedly giving the purpetrators of said actions “retroactive immunity” (unconsitutional) and since no one in Congress has moved on this point, Goonie says that the point is lost, move on.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:43 pmMove on, Moveon? Are you really with Moveon.org?
Isn’t a good waterboarding part of his daily constitutional?
Comment by marlow — February 10, 2008 @ 9:36 pm
I think that technique is called beer bonging, not waterboarding.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:44 pmI think that technique is called beer bonging, not waterboarding.
Comment by Wayne — February 10, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
Wouldn’t that imply that the troll has friends?
February 10th, 2008 at 9:48 pmIMAGINARY friends, Z, imaginary friends…
February 10th, 2008 at 9:49 pmJes’ like his **cough** “girlfriend”… Ms Rosie Palm…
February 10th, 2008 at 9:50 pmWouldn’t that imply that the troll has friends?
Comment by Zooey — February 10, 2008 @ 9:48 pm
Not when you just tap a keg =)
February 10th, 2008 at 9:50 pmI’m sure the Nazis passed more than a few laws retroactively immunizing their conduct. I’m sure that meant a hell of a lot at Nuremberg (not).
February 10th, 2008 at 9:51 pmI’m sure the Nazis passed more than a few laws retroactively immunizing their conduct. I’m sure that meant a hell of a lot at Nuremberg (not).
Comment by marlow — February 10, 2008 @ 9:51 pm
They did and it didn’t.
Didn’t mean a lot in the war criminal trials of the Yugoslavians either.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:54 pmThey did and it didn’t.
Didn’t mean a lot in the war criminal trials of the Yugoslavians either.
Comment by Wayne — February 10, 2008 @ 9:54 pm
February 10th, 2008 at 9:58 pmQuite right, and I’ll appreciate it if you’ll all leave my mistress Rosie Palm out of it, thank you very much.
Jes’ like his **cough** “girlfriendâ€â€¦ Ms Rosie Palm…
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 10, 2008 @ 9:50 pm
Oh, I know her — haggard old crank….
February 10th, 2008 at 10:01 pmQuite right, and I’ll appreciate it if you’ll all leave my mistress Rosie Palm out of it, thank you very much.
Comment by marlow — February 10, 2008 @ 9:58 pm
Hey, that wasn’t me that mentioned Rosie, it was that polar bear over there.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:01 pmRight, Z… ‘n talk about calloused…
February 10th, 2008 at 10:02 pmPolar bear???? Where??? Where??? Where???
February 10th, 2008 at 10:03 pmWhat, the one on the ice flow, all by hisself, because Global warming has melted the ice cap?
February 10th, 2008 at 10:03 pmLOL
February 10th, 2008 at 10:03 pmWhat, the one on the ice flow, all by hisself, because Global warming has melted the ice cap?
Comment by 99Luf Balloons — February 10, 2008 @ 10:03 pm
The polar bear escaped from the Zoo. ;)
February 10th, 2008 at 10:05 pmGee, Z… are they makin’ fun o’ my plight?
***sniff… sniff***
February 10th, 2008 at 10:10 pmGee, Z… are they makin’ fun o’ my plight?
***sniff… sniff***
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 10, 2008 @ 10:10 pm
It’s cruel….are you feeling up to a snack? :D
February 10th, 2008 at 10:12 pmWell… I am gittin’ mad enough ta… ta… ta… eat somebody…
February 10th, 2008 at 10:17 pmMake sure you brush after!
February 10th, 2008 at 10:24 pmN’ floss… don’t fergit tha flossing… ;-D!!
February 10th, 2008 at 10:24 pmYou have opposable thumbs? You’re a new generation of polar bear!
February 10th, 2008 at 10:36 pm***pssst… Z… it’s called “evolution”, but don’t tell the fundies… they won’t believe ya!***
Actually, that’s partly what caused my, ahem, “weight problem” (the one Shayne is allus pointin’ out… snotty wolf… I figgered out how ta use this thingy called a “can opener”…
faaaabulous invention…
February 10th, 2008 at 10:41 pmYou crack me up, polar bear. :-)
February 10th, 2008 at 10:53 pmthread needs coffee drinker warnings now
LMAO
February 10th, 2008 at 11:02 pmWell, seein’ how humans have had both “opposing thumbs” ‘n “can openers” all along… ya think they’d all have weight problems…
Ooops… my bad… a lot o’ ‘em do, don’t they?
Bad fer my cholestrol levels… Doc keeps tellin’ me I gots ta be more careful… ‘n I jes’ say, “Geez, Doc, you ever EAT a vegetarian?”
‘Course, on the other hand, it’s kindalike a balanced diet… ya get yer greens and yer meat all in one…
February 10th, 2008 at 11:16 pmVegetarians are stringy and mean. Make sure you eat ‘em two at a time.
February 10th, 2008 at 11:23 pmstringy and mean…
Comment by Zooey — February 10, 2008 @ 11:23 pm
String beings??? Can I have ‘em French cut?
February 10th, 2008 at 11:28 pmAh, a polar bear with a discriminating palate.
Would you like bacon bits ™ with those string beings? ;)
February 10th, 2008 at 11:31 pmAre they real Bacon bitsâ„¢, or those freakin’ soy Bacon bitsâ„¢???
I mean… let’s face it… I’m a polar bear… I jes’ LUVs seal blubber… jes’ how discriminatin’ can I be?
BUT… I… will… not… eat a GOOPer…
(a friend o’ mine did, once, ‘n he was sick fer weeks… all his fur fell out… man, did we tease him… said he looked like a Mexican hairless w/ a gland problem…)
February 10th, 2008 at 11:38 pmHow about some seal blubber bits(tm)? A truly special feast.
Oh please, DO NOT eat a GOOPer. Eat Spaghettios, they’re healthier.
…and I wouldn’t be able to keep from snickering if all your hair fell out… :D
February 10th, 2008 at 11:41 pmOooooh… Seal Blubber Bitsâ„¢… now, THAT’s a sure-fire winner…
And if all my hair fell out, I’d prolly get such a nasty sun burn…
But fortunately, I’d die from tha shame ‘n embarrassment first…
February 10th, 2008 at 11:44 pmThe trick is keeping the blubber bits crunchy — it’s a secret recipe, you know.
Don’t ask about the truckloads of cat litter, you don’t want to know.
Hey, a great marketing idea for y’all polar bears — water wings and sun screen!
February 10th, 2008 at 11:52 pm“… water wings and sun screen!”
Comment by Zooey — February 10, 2008 @ 11:52 pm
***sniff… sniff***… now yer makin’ fun o’ my plight again…
Ya know, I did go ta Hollywood once ‘n tried ta git an agent… she didn’t realize that I’m indeed a polar bear… all she kept sayin’ was nasty things about “that excess body hair” and suggesting I git sumpin called a “wax job” if I expected anyone ta take me seriously…
I finally got so mad I ate her…
February 10th, 2008 at 11:58 pmSorry, just being practical. Heh.
There ain’t enough wax for that job, hun. :D
C’mon, you were gonna eat her anyway. ‘fess up.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:01 amStrange t’ing ’bout that agent… she kinda mentioned that she had allus wanted ta be a comedienne… a-fore I et her… n’ she, ah, tasted… kinda funny…
KA_BOOM! ***Rim shot***
Thank youuuu, thank youuu verrrry much! Yer a wunnerful audience…
February 11th, 2008 at 12:09 amPolar bear, I think it’s time to take your act to the Poconos. I really think you’re ready!
You might even be able to scarf down a couple tourists while they’re gawking at the polar bear in the Poconos.
Need an agent…?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:11 amCareful… apparently I et tha agent… which kinda ’splains why folks at the agency were actin’ kinda edgy last time I stopped by…
Ever hear that old joke ’bout the food at those hotels?
First guest… “The food here is terrible…”
2nd guest… “And the portions… they’re so small…”*
*Woody Allen – “Annie Hall”
February 11th, 2008 at 12:16 amOh yeah….what happened to my concentration just then? :D
Gotta be on my toes around a polar bear. Yikes.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:19 amUh oh, I said a naughty word and got censored.
Do over:
Oh dear, it seems so terribly silly to complain about the small portions of terrible food. Ha ha.
**eyes rolling**
February 11th, 2008 at 12:25 amWell, yeah… what can I say?
I may seem like a cuddly stuffed animal, but I’m actually one of tha most feared predators on tha North American continent… or so my press releases say…
February 11th, 2008 at 12:26 amCensored?
Huh? Wha’ happened?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:27 amI’ll make sure the wolf reads those press releases. ;)
I wrote the dreaded b-word. Sheesh….they’re sensitive around here.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:31 amHow strange… you get censored… but they let me post my endless inanities w/out blinkin’ an eye…
Oh well… what’cha gonna due?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:33 amIndeed… make SURE tha wolf sees those press releases…
‘Bout time she lernt who’s tha top predator ’round here!
***Oooops… did I jes’ say that out loud? Don’t tell her… pleeeease…***
February 11th, 2008 at 12:35 amI think I’m on a TP naughty word list. Not sure why… ;)
Toughen up, bear! Your paw is as big as her head, and she needs a whole gang backing her up. Come on….
February 11th, 2008 at 12:37 amYou don’t know why yer on TP’s Naughty Word List? Sheeesh… gimme a break… after some o’ tha t’ings you’ve said here?
I… ahem.. on tha other paw… am a Paragon of Polar Bear Virtueâ„¢…
But that wolf… she’s… kinda scary… I mean, sheesh, she actually eats LEMMINGS, fer cryin’ out loud… ‘n someone who can choke a lemming down is capable of almost anything… even eatin’ MICE…
February 11th, 2008 at 12:45 amWell….I’ve said some really rank things, but they were all true! Truth should count for something. :)
I bet the wold would even eat a vegan — imagine that horror — all bony and gristly. No standards whatsoever…
February 11th, 2008 at 12:49 amWell, hey… don’t get me started ’bout wolves…
Lemmings? Sheesh?
‘n ta think them wolves need a whole pack ta run down… a lemming…
**snort…**
Sadly enough… tha truth, tha whole truth, ‘n nothin’ but tha truth, is, as often as not, a pretty rank t’ing…
February 11th, 2008 at 12:53 amFew things have EVER gotten me in as much trouble as simply telling the truth… I kid you not…
February 11th, 2008 at 12:54 amEspecially the truth these days. OMG…
No wonder the trolls live in that happy place called denial — it’s easier.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:55 amNo kidding about truth. It did get me divorced, and that was one good thing.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:57 amAh yaassss… denial, the drug of choice fer trolls everywhere…
Apparently, quite addictive…
Ya know… telling folks tha simple, unvarnished truth, at times, seems to be an unforgivable sin.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:06 amIt’s easier to tell unvarnished truth, than hear unvarnished truth.
As long as it’s not used as a club on someone’s head, truth is the better path.
Well, polar bear, I’ve finished my reading, so it’s off to bed for me. I’ll probably have nightmares about Abnormal Psychology. Yikes.
I’ll send you a bag of those Seal Blubber Bits ™ Yum!
February 11th, 2008 at 1:12 amOh yeah… Seal Blubber Bitsâ„¢… yummmers…
February 11th, 2008 at 1:16 amIt’s easier to tell unvarnished truth, than hear unvarnished truth.
As long as it’s not used as a club on someone’s head, truth is the better path.
Well, polar bear, I’ve finished my reading, so it’s off to bed for me. I’ll probably have nightmares about Abnormal Psychology. Yikes.
I’ll send you a bag of those Seal Blubber Bits ™ Yum!
Comment by Zooey
Could you PLEASE do this down on your own blog.
This stuff is pure bull sh¡t, with a tinge of sadism.
A∞Ω
February 11th, 2008 at 2:57 amAh… up yours, ya self-important twit…
You weren’t even here… why would you care?
Oh waitaminute… yer talkin’ bullshit… you are qualified to have an opinion…
February 11th, 2008 at 3:00 amComment by alphainfinityomega — February 11, 2008 @ 2:57 am
F_ck off, limp dick.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:01 pmIn view of the difficulty that Congress has encountered in getting the minds of Executive Branch officials to function in enquiries, if waterboarding is not torture then I suggest Congress should enact legislation making all uncooperative people who are called to testify before Congressional committees subject to waterboarding.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:05 am