11 killed during Gates’s visit to Iraq.
By on Feb 11th, 2008 at 11:29 am
11 killed during Gates’s visit to Iraq.
Eleven people were killed and 30 were wounded as two car bombs exploded in southern Baghdad today. Reuters notes that the attacks came as Defense Secretary Robert Gates “was concluding a trip to Baghdad during which he praised the improved security in the country and said al Qaeda had been routed.”
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Exley, anymore ‘happy talk’ to add to this little factoid?
February 11th, 2008 at 11:31 am“…the attacks came as Defense Secretary Robert Gates “was concluding a trip to Baghdad during which he praised the improved security in the country and said al Qaeda had been routed.â€
Neocon Republican Bushists live in an irony-free zone.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:34 amOh great. Wouldn’t you know it, just as al Qaeda is routed, some other group steps in.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:35 amExley?
That’s 41 people dead or injured because Gates had to stop by & be told the Surge will not end in 6 months. Or 8 months. Or 12 months.
Yeah, it’s really working…
February 11th, 2008 at 11:35 amWell, several of the people killed were painting a school at the time of their deaths:)
Endless War, Vote McCain.
-GSD
February 11th, 2008 at 11:36 amPerhaps it was a typo, shoeless… and the writer meant to say “al Qaeda had been RE-ROUTED… to other parts of the country…
February 11th, 2008 at 11:36 amExley, anymore ‘happy talk’ to add to this little factoid?
Comment by Zimzone
Yay! More dead brown people! The splurge is working!
February 11th, 2008 at 11:37 amExley’ll be in, in a moment. Those Bush goggles make manuvering from room to room difficult…
February 11th, 2008 at 11:41 amHey! It’s only a couple of bombs, only eleven brown people killed, what are you all getting so worked up about!
February 11th, 2008 at 11:42 amRight Cap’n, Exley, gigi???
Exley,
According to John McBomb, we could be splurging for a 100 years, or as long as he’s President.
Let’s see, that would make him 171 years old. Are you prepared to support this illegal invasion that long?
Do you think the Army buried the report on pre-invasion ‘intelligence’ because they thought we had already won? Could it be, perhaps, to cover up some phuck up who’s wrong at least, according to Tony Snow, 80% of the time? Ya think?
Bush couldn’t find his brain with a metal detector.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:44 amCheney could, but it would blow his battery pack out of his chest.
We’re routing them over there to insure they try and seek revenge here.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:46 amHey, g_g, got yer lies all lined up fer today?
They better be harder to fact check than yesterday’s little kerfluffle…
That must have been embarrassing, seeing just how easy it was to nail you… :-D!!!
February 11th, 2008 at 11:49 am“The dwindling number of remaining al-Qaeda fighters are expected to continue to focus on car bombs in their final acts of terrorist desperation.”
Lemme guess, last throes all over again?
February 11th, 2008 at 11:50 am….al Qaeda had been routed.
Apparently they’ve been “routed” to southern Baghdad.
Flag the trolls.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:50 amVote McBomb in ‘08 for more of the same!
February 11th, 2008 at 11:52 amSo after invading a country for no real reason, destroying their infrastructure and homes, murdering 4000 American troops, ruining untold amount of young lives and still NO IRAQ GOVERNMENT OR POLICING in place, but oh yeah, Bush was so tough.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:57 amDoes anyone care about the 11 troops killed this weekend? One American killed is 1 too many. Two draft dodgers easily send others to die.
Is it my imagination, or is this week getting off to a really bad start?
February 11th, 2008 at 11:59 amPerhaps it was a typo, shoeless… and the writer meant to say “al Qaeda had been RE-ROUTED… to other parts of the country…
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
It was a typo. But, it was meant to read, ““al Qaeda had been touted… by other parts of the country… “.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:59 amLemme guess, last throes all over again?
Comment by Dumb_Fox
If you will.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pmDoes anyone care about the 11 troops killed this weekend? One American killed is 1 too many. Two draft dodgers easily send others to die.
Comment by texaslady — February 11, 2008 @ 11:57 am
The people killed were Iraqis waiting to buy gas, not American soldiers.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pm“Lemme guess, last throes all over again?”
Comment by Dumb_Fox
“If you will.”
Comment by shoeless
I always confuse these movie sequels; is this Dead Enders VII, or VIII?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:05 pmThe people killed were Iraqis waiting to buy gas, not American soldiers.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
Oh well, then that doesn’t count. Dead brown people = no violence
February 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pmOh well, then that doesn’t count. Dead brown people = no violence
Comment by Shayne — February 11, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
Took the words right out of my mouth, Shayne.
What is wrong with these trolls?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pmOh well, then that doesn’t count. Dead brown people = no violence
Comment by Shayne — February 11, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
I didn’t say that, it was merely a factual correction.
BTW, the suicide bombers were “brown people”, too.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pmThe people killed were Iraqis waiting to buy gas, not American soldiers.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
Are you Tommy “We don’t do body counts” Franks?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmWhat is wrong with these trolls?
Comment by Zooey — February 11, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
Why the rush to make this a racial question, Zooey? Texaslady said the dead were American troops, they weren’t, that is all I said and all I intended.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:11 pmI didn’t say that, it was merely a factual correction.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
A correction of what exactly? The article says 11 people were killed… you say, nah-ah, 11 Iraqis buying gas were killed.
So, by your own formulation, what were you trying to correct?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:13 pmBTW, the suicide bombers were “brown peopleâ€, too.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
Oh you’re probably right. Perhaps they had Down’s Syndrome like the two last week. Then they’re handicapped and brown so you can deduct them double from the killed list. Hitler would be so proud of you.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:15 pmA correction of what exactly? The article says 11 people were killed… you say, nah-ah, 11 Iraqis buying gas were killed.
So, by your own formulation, what were you trying to correct?
Comment by Dumb_Fox — February 11, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
Texaslady in comment #17.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pmWhy the rush to make this a racial question, Zooey? Texaslady said the dead were American troops, they weren’t, that is all I said and all I intended.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
Texaslady was addressing the troops killed over the weekend and these 11 were killed today. Can you even read?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pmKeltoi – icasualties.org 16 military deaths for February 08. One as of 2/10. We are at 3960 so far for this illegal war. As I stated before EVERONE who is for this war needs to put on a uniform today. Go be a cook if too old to carry a gun.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:17 pmOh you’re probably right. Perhaps they had Down’s Syndrome like the two last week. Then they’re handicapped and brown so you can deduct them double from the killed list. Hitler would be so proud of you.
Comment by Shayne — February 11, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
Whatever Shayne, go ahead and just make up stuff that I think so you can feel good about calling me a Nazi.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:17 pmYes, Shayne, I can read, here is the article linked in the thread.
“BAGHDAD, Feb 11 (Reuters) – Two car bombs exploded in southern Baghdad on Monday, killing 11 people during a visit to the city by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Iraqi police said.
Police said the bombs, which were packed in two cars waiting at a fuel station and exploded within minutes of each other, also wounded 30 people.”
And here is Texaslady’s comment:
“Does anyone care about the 11 troops killed this weekend? One American killed is 1 too many. Two draft dodgers easily send others to die.
Comment by texaslady — February 11, 2008 @ 11:57 am”
So yeah, I can read.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:20 pmSIXTEEN TROOPS SO FAR AS OF FEBRUARY 11, 2008. And I wonder where McCain’s son is stationed.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:23 pmKeltoi- we are angry that military lives mean so very little to all of you bush supporters, and check out how many soldiers are taking and trying to take their own lives after the misery they are enduring. Don’t tell me, “well they enlisted.” To fight a legal war is much more different than for a group of ego power mad sub-humans. The Iraqis want us OUT, 70% Americans want us OUT !
February 11th, 2008 at 12:26 pmStrange how 15 Saudis could kill 3,000 Americans…
and we respond with 160,000 troops to the wrong country and let 4,000 more Americans die.
7,000 dead and we’re still invading the wrong country!
Bush could phuck up free beer. Just say’n…
February 11th, 2008 at 12:28 pmSo yeah, I can read.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:20 pm
So Monday is this weekend to you?
February 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pmBush could phuck up free beer. Just say’n…
Comment by Zimzone — February 11, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
Actually Bush will suck up the free beer, while phucking up everything else. =P
February 11th, 2008 at 12:38 pmWhatever Shayne, go ahead and just make up stuff that I think so you can feel good about calling me a Nazi.
Comment by Keltoi —
I would feel “good” if you so called Americans would stop making racist comments and infer that the death of an Iraqi is not the same as the death of an American. A human life is a human life.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:40 pmI would feel “good†if you so called Americans would stop making racist comments and infer that the death of an Iraqi is not the same as the death of an American. A human life is a human life.
Comment by Shayne — February 11, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
Find one racist comment I have made. I do not infer anything, you infer it for me.
A human life is indeed a human life, I never said or inferred any differently.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:44 pmThe dwindling number of remaining al-Qaeda fighters are expected to continue to focus on car bombs in their final acts of terrorist desperation.
Comment by good_golly — February 11, 2008 @ 11:46 am
And then the Awakening Councils will turn their attention to the next two enemies on their list: the Iraqi police and the Shi’a tribes.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:07 pmWhy the rush to make this a racial question, Zooey? Texaslady said the dead were American troops, they weren’t, that is all I said and all I intended.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
It’s not a racial question, dingleberry. I simply asked what’s wrong with you trolls. Meaning, why is it ok in your tiny world that any of these people are dying for f_cking nothing?
February 11th, 2008 at 1:11 pmWait for it, the dead will be labeled as high level AlQueda operatives soon, they may well be all the number three man in iraq. and then there will be a barrage of troll droppings accusing us of hating the troops.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pmIt’s not a racial question, dingleberry. I simply asked what’s wrong with you trolls. Meaning, why is it ok in your tiny world that any of these people are dying for f_cking nothing?
Comment by Zooey — February 11, 2008 @ 1:11 pm
It ISN’T okay, I never said it was okay, never inferred it was okay, don’t think it is okay, wish it would stop – okay?
And if we were to book out of there lots more “brown people” would die as a result. If you think the current situation is bad, the aftermath of a precipitious retreat would make today’s incident seem tame indeed.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pmComment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
Right. So let’s stay there.
More Americans and coalition members will be killed, and our mere presence causes the Iraqi factions to kill each other at an escalating rate, and they certainly have no reason to talk to one another — as long as they have their common enemy. Us.
That’s working out quite well.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:28 pmAnd if we were to book out of there lots more “brown people†would die as a result. If you think the current situation is bad, the aftermath of a precipitious retreat would make today’s incident seem tame indeed.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
Isn’t this a bit of a strawman? A “precipitous retreat” is not physically possible without the invention of the teleporter. Even the most liberal withdrawal timelines estimate that the process of getting all personnel, vehicles, and critical equipment out of Iraq will take 8-12 months, which is plenty of time to simultaneously work with the GOI on reconciliation between the various factions we’ve created.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:28 pmIf you think the current situation is bad, the aftermath of a precipitious retreat would make today’s incident seem tame indeed.
Comment by Keltoi
I used to think this, several years ago, but the reality is that this is going to happen no matter when we leave. We spent 20 years in Vietnam, and when we left it got real ugly. Should we spend another 15 years in Iraq, supporting a cabal that we like, fighting insurgents in ebbs and flows? When will you support our leaving Keltoi? Be specific, no bumpersticker “We’ll stand down when they stand up” crap.
It’s never going to be good. We will never fix what we’ve broken, never. This is not a shot at our soldiers. They don’t have a defined mission beyond keeping each other alive.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:29 pmMore Americans and coalition members will be killed, and our mere presence causes the Iraqi factions to kill each other at an escalating rate, and they certainly have no reason to talk to one another — as long as they have their common enemy. Us.
Comment by Zooey — February 11, 2008 @ 1:28 pm
Just from a fact standpoint, the factions are not killing each other at an escalating rate.
Do you really think the suicide bombers blew up those people because of our prescence? Or are they trying to sow terror and chaos so as to spark a full blown civil war? That is AQI’s stated goal in their own words…
February 11th, 2008 at 1:37 pmThat is AQI’s stated goal in their own words…
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
And you know this because bin Laden emails you personally every day. Just like you KNOW, what would happen in Iraq if we left by the anecdotal evidence of Viet Nam.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:46 pmIt’s never going to be good. We will never fix what we’ve broken, never. This is not a shot at our soldiers. They don’t have a defined mission beyond keeping each other alive.
Comment by Bobwurst — February 11, 2008 @ 1:29 pm
And to Toasterhead at 50, I don’t necessarily disagree with any of your points. “Never” is a long time, though. Maybe it will “never” be good, but it can be made less of a disaster.
Bobwurst, I am waiting to see the results of the 08 election as far as when we leave. If McCain wins, we stay, likely another 4 years. When he made his point about staying 100 years he had the important caveat that Americans would support it if our troops weren’t getting killed. I think that is true, given our experience in Germany and other places. Whether or not such an Iraq can exist is an open question. If Obama wins, we’re outta there in the 12-18 months that are logistically required, and I could support that, but I fear there will be a bloodbath…I hope the Left is ready to watch that. I have no idea what Hillary would do. She says she’ll leave, but when the massacres start she may change her mind.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:47 pmComment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Since AQ wasn’t in Iraq when we attacked them for no reason, other than their oil, then yes, they are killing each other because of us. AQ has established a presence in Iraq because of us.
Deal with that.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:48 pmJust from a fact standpoint, the factions are not killing each other at an escalating rate.
Do you really think the suicide bombers blew up those people because of our prescence? Or are they trying to sow terror and chaos so as to spark a full blown civil war? That is AQI’s stated goal in their own words…
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
The factions are not killing each other at an escalating rate yet, but the seeds are being planted. The head of the Anbar Salvation Council is threatening to “raise weapons against the Iraqi Islamic Party” if political power is not immediately handed over from the Anbar provincial government to them. Awakening militias are already clashing with Iraqi police in Baghdad and blaming Shi’ites for the assasinations of Awakening leaders, and shutting down Baquba militia-style with demands that the local police chief be fired.
The civil war was sparked long ago, when we created a power vacuum. Right now it’s in a relative lull while some key factions regroup and reorganize, and while 2.5 million bombing targets are still hiding out in Jordan and Syria.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:51 pmAnd you know this because bin Laden emails you personally every day. Just like you KNOW, what would happen in Iraq if we left by the anecdotal evidence of Viet Nam.
Comment by Shayne — February 11, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
No, I know this because of intercepted letters between Zarqawi and Bin Laden and captured documents from various AQI Emirs that state this.
And I don’t KNOW there would be a bloodbath – I fear it. You also can’t KNOW that we will never be able to bring stability and security to Iraq if we stay. The only way to know either is to try one or the other.
I am not a raging ideologue on this. I think everyone wishes things would calm down there, but they aren’t, at least not to the point where we can say Iraq is at peace. It is reasonable to ask, “is it worth it”?
We will find out based on the 08 elections what the people want. A very stark contrast will be drawn, especially if Obama wins the nomination.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:57 pmre 54:
That’s not really an answe to the question I was asking. Let me put it another way: define success and how we are going to achieve that success with a military presence. I disagree with your reply to Zooey about why there is so much violence there. AQI is, by our military’s own view, a very small part of the insurgency, less than 8% or something. Most of the violence is iraqi on iraqi. The IEDs that are blowing the legs off our troops are aimed at us. they don’t want us there. period. and they’re going to fight it out whenever we leave, tomorrow, next year, 4 years, 40 years, it doesn’t matter. Allwe’re doing now is face saving for bush, when hillary or Obama get in, I’m afraid that they will want to stick it out until there is some sign that we’re “winning” so they can leave in a position of power and be able to claim that we left victiorious. And the result will be 4 more years of dead, wounded, ptsd’d, divorced, soldiers. it makes me sick.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:59 pmNo, I know this because of intercepted letters between Zarqawi and Bin Laden and captured documents from various AQI Emirs that state this.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
Fair enough, but remember that AQI is but one faction in the Iraqi civil war, and a very tiny one at that – perhaps 2% of all fighters, and probably much less now that we’ve been arming Sunni tribes to rout them in their areas.
The real problems are going to start when AQI is gone. We’ll have destroyed one monster by creating twenty monsters.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:03 pmI saw this story over the weekend too, Toasterhead, ominous indeed.
But does this argue for us getting out of there ASAP? You could say it argues for the opposite. Unless you take Bobwursts position that the whole thing is doomed no matter what and we should get out as fast as logistically possible.
But what is left behind? When Cambodia and Vietnam went to hell after we cut funding for the South, it didn’t really affect us. Can the same be said for the Persian gulf?
February 11th, 2008 at 2:04 pmoff topic for Keltoi,
There has been some discussion here over the weekend on how to best deal with trolls. For the record, I don’t put you in that catagory, even if I disagree with most of what you write. You do seem sincere about your postings and not just seeking attention or trying to derail the conversation. Thanks for coming around, even though I usually want to give you a rhetoricl bloody nose.
Everyone else, feel free to tell me to get a room, quit sucking troll ass, etc.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:05 pmThanks, Bobwurst, I am sincere and have no interest in derailing, quite the opposite, I often feel I play the role of provacateur to keep the discussion going; echo chambers are no fun.
I am also questing, seeking a better understanding of the Left, that is why I come here instead of RedState or whatever. And in the year I’ve been here I have moved left on several things – I am not sure if it was TP or Bush’s incompetence that did it, but it has happened.
As far as “trolls” go, just ignoring them is the best response. I think RHF is a troll because all he ever adds is venom and personal attack, which often derails the discussion, so I ignore him. What else can you do?
February 11th, 2008 at 2:16 pmBut does this argue for us getting out of there ASAP? You could say it argues for the opposite. Unless you take Bobwursts position that the whole thing is doomed no matter what and we should get out as fast as logistically possible.
But what is left behind? When Cambodia and Vietnam went to hell after we cut funding for the South, it didn’t really affect us. Can the same be said for the Persian gulf?
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
I think it argues for us announcing a deadline for withdrawal. As long as our presence is open-ended, we give the Iraqi factions no incentive to work towards reconciliation. When we announce that we might be there for 100 years, it tells the tribes we’re currently bribing that they’ll have a steady source of income for the next 100 years as long as they always have someone to fight.
I think Iraq as a concept is doomed. It’s been doomed since it was drawn on a map of the old Ottoman empire in the 1920s. Perhaps it will be better off as a loosely-federated group of emirates rather than a unified country.
Either way, we need to step up our diplomatic efforts – including Iran, Syria, and Turkey – and help Iraq figure out what it wants to be while at the same time reducing our footprint in the country.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:28 pmBTW, the suicide bombers were “brown peopleâ€, too.
Comment by Keltoi — February 11, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
What would YOU do if say, China invaded here, bombed the crap out of everything, and that was the only way you could fight them?
Would you submit or fight?
2nd Amendment or 1st Amendment?
February 11th, 2008 at 2:37 pmEveryone else, feel free to tell me to get a room, quit sucking troll ass, etc.
Comment by Bobwurst — February 11, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Agreed – Keltoi argues with facts instead of talking points. I appreciate that, even if I don’t agree.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:37 pmComment by toasterhead — February 11, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
Yes….I always thought Joe Biden had a decent perspective on this as far as the “Tri-raq” thing goes. So long as we have friends among the Gulf states who allow us airbases there, a serious invasion from Iran is unlikely.
I DO think Iraq as a failed state invites AQ in, but maybe the Sunni Awakening has made it no longer possible for them to do more than car bombings. Maybe.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:37 pmWhat would YOU do if say, China invaded here, bombed the crap out of everything, and that was the only way you could fight them?
Would you submit or fight?
2nd Amendment or 1st Amendment?
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — February 11, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
I’d fight, but I can’t imagine blowing myself up at a gas station where there were no Chinese soldiers to make a political point.
February 11th, 2008 at 3:04 pmI’d fight, but I can’t imagine blowing myself up at a gas station where there were no Chinese soldiers to make a political point.
Comment by Keltoi
neither can most Iraqis, but could you set off bombs that would kill Chinese soldiers as they drive by? Would you kill collaborators with the occupiers? Would you reject a puppet government? Regardless of whether you, or I, think that iraqis who work with the US military or NGOs are collaborators, or whether we think the Malikai gov is a puppet regime, there are those in iraq who do.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pm