Charles Swift: Use Of Waterboarding Evidence In Court Unheard Of Since ‘Spanish Inquisition’
Charles Swift: Use Of Waterboarding Evidence In Court Unheard Of Since ‘Spanish Inquisition’
Military prosecutors announced yesterday that they have filed death penalty charges “against a former senior leader of Al Qaeda and five other Guantánamo detainees on Monday for their roles” in the 9/11 attacks.
One of these detainees, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the so-called 9/11 “mastermind,” has been confirmed to have been waterboarded. Yesterday evening, Attorney General Mike Mukasey refused to rule out using this evidence in court, saying, “What evidence gets presented at this trial is up to the prosecutors.”
On CNN last night, Charles Swift, the “hero of Guantanamo” who represented Salim Hamdan in the case Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, slammed the government’s refusal to rule out waterboarding-based evidence in the military commission:
SWIFT: And if we use — we move beyond the torture discussion to the question of using this in a trial where life and death is at stake. If we use waterboarded testimony in that trial, to my knowledge…the last precedent for using that kind of testimony was the Spanish Inquisition.
Watch it:
Swift added the government’s “incredibly unenviable position” of using torture evidence “is further compromised by the fact that we destroyed the tapes of the interrogations themselves,” referring to the CIA’s interrogation tape destruction.
And according to Swift, the trial could be unfair, as the government’s Office of Military Commissions has no attorneys who are “death-penalty-qualified currently assigned” to the case. They “don’t have the resources,” he said. “The government seems to almost intentionally insure that there is not sufficient assets to put on a credible defense.”
Swift concluded, “I have absolute faith in our system of justice that we can convict an admitted mastermind without using torture to do it. It’s the fact that we keep trying to do it that’s destroying us.”
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Anyone else wonder if the timing of these trials has anything to do w/ the approaching Presiduncial elections?
February 12th, 2008 at 11:51 amWell, just torture the kids, like you’ve been doing…
February 12th, 2008 at 11:51 amDid any of these detainees ever get legal representation ? I know Padilla was held for over two years without even talking to his attorney.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:53 amWHAT IS WRONG WITH MY COUNTRYMEN?!?!?!?!
I am so ashamed. I hope Washington, Madison, and Jefferson can forgive us. I don’t know that I ever will.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:54 amSwift concluded, “I have absolute faith in our system of justice that we can convict an admitted mastermind without using torture to do it. It’s the fact that we keep trying to do it that’s destroying us.â€
Enough said.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:54 amThere’s a good discussion about this case on Democracy Now today:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/12/torture_due_process_denial_mar_capital
February 12th, 2008 at 11:56 amSo do we ever get to hear the defense’s side? I also read where Khalid M was not that sane prior to his waterboarding and that his wife and children were threatened while he was interrogated. The tapes were destroyed , how very convenient. If the evidence was solid where was the need to destroy the tapes?
February 12th, 2008 at 11:56 amafter all this time, there is no other way to look at these “trials”
February 12th, 2008 at 11:57 ambut as political manipulation.
Yes but the trials are months away and in the meantime Bush can keep saying “can’t comment on ongoing trial” and never discuss torture again~
February 12th, 2008 at 11:58 amThis is a deadly circus. The prosecutors are not death qualified, and they’re using evidence obtained through torture.
I agree with The Republic of Stupidity @ #1. This is a diversion of the “bread and circuses” variety.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:58 am“The government seems to almost intentionally insure that there is not sufficient assets to put on a credible defense.â€
ya think?
it’s all about the fear factor… it’s all political theater…
February 12th, 2008 at 11:59 amMike “Torquemada” Mukasey.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pm“the trial could be unfair”
YA THINK?! DUH!
February 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pmThis is a deadly circus. The prosecutors are not death qualified, and they’re using evidence obtained through torture.
Comment by Zooey — February 12, 2008 @ 11:58 am
Not to mention that even if the defendants are acquitted, they still won’t be set free. They’ll be detained indefinitely until the government finds something else to charge them with.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:01 pmWe have met the barbarians and they are the Republicans.
Buck Fush
February 12th, 2008 at 12:02 pmif we use waterboarded testimony in that trial, to my knowledge…the last precedent for using that kind of testimony was the Spanish Inquisition.
although possibly true for waterboarding, I don”t believe its true of torture in general – there is US precedent. IIRC, people were tortured in the Salem witch trials into confessing that they were witches and then killed for their confession.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:02 pm.
Correction, tortured confession at the Salem witch trials is not US precedent because the Salem witch trials were pre-US, but still American precedent.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:05 pm.
Anyone else wonder if the timing of these trials has anything to do w/ the approaching Presiduncial elections?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 12, 2008 @ 11:51 am
I think it has more do with trying to neutralize the threat of prosecution for committing torture.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:08 pmbarbarians are Republican?!
Gee, I always thought of Republicans as knuckle-dragging Neanderthals.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:11 pmWas the Spanish Inquisition after the Salem Witch trials?
February 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pmRepublicans as knuckle-dragging Neanderthals.
Comment by Uncle Ho
That to, but to more accurate it would be “scum sucking. brownshirt, christofascist, lemming, sub human, knuckle-dragging neanderturds”
February 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pmDid this guy forget or not understand these are purely show trials? Timed to commence right before the elections, more than likely.
What better way for the Repubs to hold onto the thread of hope that scare tactics will still pull a win out of the fire for them.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pmNormally I’d say “unbelievable,” but things have gotten to a point where nothing surprises me anymore. The Spanish Inquisition reference was perfect, isn’t that when “the man” realized that people will admit to anything if you just torture them enough?
PS: What about the FISA ordeal? Check out this: FISA: Fascism Is Stalking America
February 12th, 2008 at 12:19 pm#s 1 & 10 Yup.
A circus where they serve moldy rye bread instead of cotton candy.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:19 pmGetcher Lysergic Acid DiEthelamyde, right here!
Can’t tell the terrists from the other gitmoers without your LSD!
Buckie Boy; LOL!
February 12th, 2008 at 12:19 pmMy computer at work blew it’s mind yesterday, so I get to just sit here most of the day till it is fixed, Big SGI animation computer, so it’s gonna be awhile.
;-)
February 12th, 2008 at 12:20 pmSo we have been through six long years of this fiasco and now George needs a trial with an assumed outcome so that he can become the executioner president on top of all the rest. Now it is the “Justice” conclusion.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:23 pmWhat happened six long years and hundreds of thousands of lives ago when George had the chance to get the criminals and try them in court but Iraq looked better in Dick Cheney’s eyes.
This presidence has been an agenda of the crooked and nothing more.
.
Imagine an arrest warrant garnered through waterboarding.
Such was the case of Mukasey’s signature for one Jose Padilla.
.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:26 pm#20 – I believe that the Spanish Inquisition started before and lasted long after the Salem witch trials but I could be wrong. I think the Inquisition lasted officially until the 1830’s when the pope finally called it off.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:26 pmAnyone else wonder if the timing of these trials has anything to do w/ the approaching Presiduncial elections?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
I don’t wonder. I’m certain the timing is for purely political reasons. The gang of war criminals known as the Republican party are desperate. They think their only hope to remain in power is to once again play the only card left in their hand, and hope that enough of the American public is still stupid and cowardly enough to fooled one more time.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:29 pmHow would these trials help the Republican in the election? Surely intelligent people would ask the same questions being asked on this thread instead of running out and buying duct tape and plastic for their homes again. Boy that and our color code has to be the most stupid ideas from Home Land Security yet. How much has that boondoggle department cost so far?
February 12th, 2008 at 12:29 pmThanks Dreary City Dweller, I could have used the googles, I guess, but then I’d have to know how to spell inquisition!
February 12th, 2008 at 12:30 pmI can just see the timing of this whole charade culminating in an executiion date of Nov 3, 2008.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:31 pmbarbarians are Republican?!
Comment by Uncle Ho
No, Libertarians are barbarians. Republicans are criminals.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:31 pmHow would these trials help the Republican in the election? Surely intelligent people would ask the same questions being asked on this thread…
Comment by texaslady
They are not playing to intelligent people.
“Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.” -P.T. Barnum
February 12th, 2008 at 12:35 pmThis is awful. This is shaping up to be as much of a kangaroo trial as Saddam Hussein’s trial. Saddam was evil. But he deserved a fair trial to show that WE ARE BETTER THAN HE IS AND THAT WE WILL NOT RESORT TO HIS TACTICS.
The same is true for Mohammad and EVERY other gitmo detainee. IF he WAS the mastermind behind the attacks on 9/11/01, then he should be punished as per law. But Bush and his cronies have totally ruined any chance of there being any sort of perceived fair trial. This is terrible. Every step of the way, the neocons have destroyed another great pillar of what was the greatest nation in the world…
Remember, even the nazis had FAIR trials! There were many that wanted to execute them all after the war. But the allied nations wanted to make a statement that we will always be fair even to our enemies. What the hell has happened to us since then?!
February 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pmshoeless – you unfortunately, may be right, with so much evidence repressed regarding 9/11 the truth may never be known.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:39 pmSaddam was evil. But he deserved a fair trial to show that WE ARE BETTER THAN HE IS AND THAT WE WILL NOT RESORT TO HIS TACTICS.
Comment by Parrotlover77
We are better than he was. Unfortunately, Republicans are not.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:41 pmHeckuva legacy, Bushie, heckuva legacy.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:47 pmTrue, but how likely are they to be acquitted when the prosecution can say “He admitted everything and said he would do it again. Case closed — by the way, we would show you, but the tapes were destroyed, but trust us.”
February 12th, 2008 at 12:48 pmThe nazi criminals had valient people hunting them, took years in some cases but they never gave up. Who do we have in today’s world that cannot be bought off but will be brave enough to stand up to this crowd in office?
February 12th, 2008 at 12:49 pmI am deeply, deeply ashamed of my government and my president today.
Again.
I am deeply, deeply saddened for America today.
Again.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pmOne of these detainees, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the so-called 9/11 “mastermind,†has been confirmed to have been waterboarded. Yesterday evening, Attorney General Mike Mukasey refused to rule out using this evidence in court, saying, “What evidence gets presented at this trial is up to the prosecutors.â€
Not sure what Mukasey has to do with the decision. I thought it was all run by the military (not that I think that’s a “good thing” … I should have a post up later on this)/
Cheers,
February 12th, 2008 at 12:51 pmzuch – you are right, I thought too it was to be run by the military. Still where are the defense lawyers, even the worst criminals are suppose to have legal advice.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:54 pmTrue. As Hunter S. Thompson’s lawyer friend said in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, “Even a werewolf deserves representation in court.”
February 12th, 2008 at 12:58 pmI can just see the timing of this whole charade culminating in an executiion date of Nov 3, 2008.
Comment by RUCerious
I wonder what day they would hold the execution if Giuliani had been the Republican nominee?
February 12th, 2008 at 1:01 pm*** Russ Feingold – votes correctly 100% of the time ***
February 12th, 2008 at 1:03 pm– 96 to 1 (Feingold voted AGAINST the patriot act).
texaslady; today’s Nazi criminals are the ones holding office, presiding over this travesty of justice. The USA under Bush has now officially joined Stalin and Hitler in conducting ‘Kangaroo courts’.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:04 pmThis is all one great big humongous MONTY PYTHON script!
February 12th, 2008 at 1:06 pmWhat the hell has happened to us since then?!
Comment by Parrotlover77 — February 12, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
February 12th, 2008 at 1:09 pmNaziNeocon trash getting elected to power.this might be the most important news item i’ve read in……years. maybe ever. wtf?
February 12th, 2008 at 1:13 pmQuote by Russ Feingold in a speech describing why he voted against the Patriot Act:
It seemed relevant here, forgive me if I am wrong.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pmGreat post, DanCaveman, thank you.
Feingold entered the race too early, (’04), I sure wish I could vote for him in November.
Out of 100 Senators, is Feingold the only one willing to tell truth?
February 12th, 2008 at 1:23 pmUncle Ho 1:04 p.m. Unless America gives rights to the worst who will speak up for those who are innocent? Why do some feel it couldn’t happen to anyone who dares to speak out. Right or wrong we have to have dissent, our country was built on that right.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:25 pmDan you are correct I had forgotten about Russ Feingold. He has displayed courage on many issues.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:26 pmThe Republican theory works in this manner: “We already know that they are guilty, thus there is nothing wrong with torturing them to obtain the confession necessary to convict.”
However, we see the Republicans apply this kind of logic in all sorts of cases:
1. The person is a criminal. He does not deserve to have procedural rights at trial.
2. Those who object to searches or eavesdropping without warrant have done something wrong.
3. The poor are lazy and shiftless and thus do not deserve any assistance from the government.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:52 pmJMOHR – I agree with two out of your three points. The poor and sick, and elderly should always be helped with a social program. But our current welfare system, and EIC are promoting healthy people to lean on assistance instead of improving their condition. Welfare, food stamps, should be a temporary help for most people. We all need a hand now and then.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:59 pmTexas lady: You do agree with me. My point was that certain conservatives do indeed want to see no assistance. I will not argue that determining the right mix of assistance and self reliance is a hard job and that the system over time tilts too much towards one direction and then the other. You can see how the US automotive industry became too dependent upon light pollution and reduced mileage requirements from the government to keep them afloat. Now, they are noncompetitive with most other nations around the world.
February 12th, 2008 at 2:06 pmIf we know – we must have had proof to begin with; therefore, torture is unnecessary. Also, torture is wrong. We shouldn’t do it – even if it were helpful – because of that.
(I know you weren’t advocating…I was just rebutting the generic republican argument.)
February 12th, 2008 at 2:25 pmUnfortunately, I firmly believe that both the military and the republicans are more than capable of rigging a kangaroo court all by themselves. When joined together, I have full faith that they can manufacture all the false evidence they need.
February 12th, 2008 at 2:37 pmThe Inquisition (what a show)
February 12th, 2008 at 2:40 pmThe Inquistion (here we go)
We know you’re wishin’ that we’d go away.
But the Inquisition’s here and it’s here to stay!
as taken from http://www.ifimpresident.com/d2176_Waterboarding_is_legal_now/ as a quote from the UN convention Against Torture:
“Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.”
Waterboarding, imo, falls under this category..
February 12th, 2008 at 5:37 pmOr, to put a closer example, “Unheard Of Since ‘Salem’s Trials’”
February 14th, 2008 at 8:08 amAny act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the acer batcl50l4 battery ,acer travelmate 290 battery
October 15th, 2008 at 2:45 aminstigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.