Bush Administration Hides More Data, Shuts Down Website Tracking U.S. Economic Indicators
Bush Administration Hides More Data, Shuts Down Website Tracking U.S. Economic Indicators
The U.S. economy is faltering. Family debt is on the rise, benefits are disappearing, the deficit is skyrocketing, and the mortgage crisis has worsened. Conservatives have attempted to deflect attention from the crisis, by blaming the media’s negative coverage and insisting the United States is not headed toward a recession, despite what economists are predicting.
The Bush administration’s latest move is to simply hide the data. Forbes has awarded EconomicIndicators.gov one of its “Best of the Web” awards. As Forbes explains, the government site provides an invaluable service to the public for accessing U.S. economic data:
This site is maintained by the Economics and Statistics Administration and combines data collected by the Bureau of Economic Analysis, like GDP and net imports and exports, and the Census Bureau, like retail sales and durable goods shipments. The site simply links to the relevant department’s Web site. This might not seem like a big deal, but doing it yourself–say, trying to find retail sales data on the Census Bureau’s site–is such an exercise in futility that it will convince you why this portal is necessary.
Yet the Bush administration has decided to shut down this site because of “budgetary constraints,” effective March 1:
Economic Indicators is particularly useful because people can sign up to receive e-mails as soon as new economic data across government agencies becomes available. While the data will still be available online at various federal websites, it will be less readily accessible to members of the public.
In its e-mail announcement on the closing of Economic Indicators, the Department of Commerce acknowledged the “inconvenience” and offered “a free quarterly subscription to STAT-USA®/Internetâ„¢” instead. Once this temporary subscription runs out, however, the public will be forced to pay a fee. So not only will economic data be more hidden, it will also cost money.
It’s ironic that the Economic and Statistics Administration is facing “budgetary contraints,” considering Bush recently submitted a record $3.1 trillion budget to Congress for FY ‘09.
UPDATE: Steve Benen has compiled other examples of the Bush administration hiding inconvenient data.
UPDATE II: OMB Watch has put together an index to replace Economic Indicators, offering one-stop-shopping for economic data links.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Nixon is green with envy of the secrecy of the Bushies. Nixon could only dream of what Bush/Cheney has actually achieved.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:49 pmHey, illegal preemptive wars cost money, you know.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:49 pmIf you’re doing something illegal in your (white) house, you would probably close the curtains and not answer if anyone rang the door bell.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pmWhy… am… I… not… surprised, in the least.
Ostrich… meet sand, or perhaps… GOOPer… meet rear end.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:52 pmThat’s because it’s secret. Don’t want people knowing the truth or anything, the truth is secret.
Buck Fush
February 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pmYou can always go to the Heritage Foundation for their economic data. Always rosy and spot on!
Who needs the government to provide this data when you can fund it instead with stolen US bricks of US currency meant for Iraq?
February 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pmI guess shutting down the website is the worst of all economic indicators.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pmWow. Just wow.
Yet another example on how Bush and the GOP want to keep the electorate an uninformed as possible. If you shut down where people can get actual facts, there is no way to refute their outrageous claims.
“You can’t see the info on terrorists, just trust us we’re doing the right thing.”
“You can’t see info on climate change, just trust us it’s not happening.”
“You can’t see info on private contractors in Iraq, just trust us they’re doing a great job with no screwups.”
“You can’t see a report on where the money in Iraq is going, just trust us that it’s being spent perfectly.”
“You can’t see info on the economy, just trust us it’s not bad. Go shopping.”
February 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm“An Inconvenient Website”
February 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pmfrom antiwar.com (Justin Raimondo) :
Since 9/11, the United States has stood astride the global arms market and shows no signs of slacking off. In 2006, Washington wrapped up the biggest number of new arms deals, to the tune of some $16.9 billion, over 40 percent of the worldwide total. Russia came in second, with a mere $8.7 billion. More than half of the global arms deliveries were made by the U.S.
Just last week, on Feb. 8, 18 “defense”-related contracts were announced totaling $326,664,244. That makes 58 publicly-reported defense contracts for the week, totaling $1,584,635,220. Last month, there were 223 publicly-reported defense contracts, totaling $19,625,989,716. While the civilian economy is shrinking, the military sector is expanding – and, if either of the eventual major party candidates have their way, the military expenditures will balloon. The Democrats, like the Republicans, are pledged to an even bigger U.S. military. It’s good for business, if your business is war or war-related, and it’s good for votes – especially the votes, active support, and political contributions of the growing group of Americans whose livelihoods, and claim to some sort of social status, depend on the continuation of our foreign policy of perpetual war.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:55 pmEverything can’t be great if we can’t afford the website that says how great everything is going.
February 13th, 2008 at 2:55 pmMr. Bush,
The time for glorifying yourself will soon be at an end.
Maximus
February 13th, 2008 at 2:55 pmI guess shutting down the website is the worst of all economic indicators.
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda — February 13, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
—-
Qutoed for truth
February 13th, 2008 at 2:56 pmSocialist commie pinko website. Shut it down!
February 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pmmore from antiwar.com (Justin Raimondo)
This permanent war economy is financed by government, of course, which goes into debt in order to pay for the biggest orgy of arms spending in history. That debt eats away at the very heart of our prosperity and threatens to hollow out our economic system as the markets shake and quiver, hinting at a financial meltdown that every half-awake economist and market maven expects – and fears. A few profit while the rest of us suffer the consequences. That isn’t capitalism; that’s government-subsidized cronyism.
We are borrowing from the Chinese in order to pay the costs of our Middle Eastern empire, but what will we do when they no longer buy our debt? When they dump our securities, our “empire” goes down the tubes – and the warlords of Washington know it
February 13th, 2008 at 2:59 pmThe Democrats, like the Republicans, are pledged to an even bigger U.S. military.
Comment by Kay — February 13, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
And therein lies the problem. All the problems Hillary and Barack pledge to address simply cannot materialize as long as the Defense budget stays at current levels or is increased. Period.
The defense budget needs to be cut 25% IMMEDIATELY and another 25% shortly thereafter.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pmThe definition of irony is when national economic indicators get so bad that the government has to shut down its website for reporting national economic indicators.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pmEconomic indicators, like reality, have a well known liberal bias.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pmeven more from antiwar.com (Justin Raimondo)
For a relatively paltry investment – chump change, really – the military-industrial complex hauls in boatloads of cash. It’s nice work, if you can get it. The problem is that the rest of us pay, in the form of taxes, to subsidize this politically powerful new class: an America that isn’t producing anything all that useful, except for bombs and subprime mortgage securities, is growing poorer as a result of their labors. Every dollar locked up in the dead end of military equipment, which cannot be used except for a single, rather limited purpose, is one less dollar that is invested in productive capital, i.e., an investment that expands the private market, creates non-government jobs, and generally increases the level of well-being in our society.
In effect, the military-industrial complex lives very much like a vampire, draining the life’s blood from the productive sector and reducing the availability of capital investment where it’s really needed. Our foreign policy massively misallocates the distribution of wealth in our society and pumps funds into areas that are not productive, while starving those sectors that would benefit the civilian economy.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pmYet another example on how Bush and the GOP want to keep the electorate an uninformed as possible.
Comment by bobcat_grad — February 13, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
Damn straight, bobcat.
It’s why they have such a hard-on for the “liberal academic elite”. Because they know that, in general, the more educated one becomes, the more liberal their thinking.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1228-32.htm
February 13th, 2008 at 3:02 pmActually, as most already know, this is just bogus. The work, and the real cost of the website, is still going to done to produce the data. The cost of having the website is trivial in comparison.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:03 pmWe have to face the facts : it’s a War Economy and the civilian economy is going down the toilet.
The only ones that are getting rich are the arms manufacturers.
Folks, this is a “phony war on terror”
February 13th, 2008 at 3:04 pmGee, ya think, kay?
February 13th, 2008 at 3:05 pmKay; another way of saying it is:
Kill! It’s GOOD for the economy!
February 13th, 2008 at 3:07 pmBush is a cut and run coward. He has cut and run from trouble every time he has caused it in his pathetic, cowardly life.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:10 pm“Facts are stupid things.”
- Ronald Reagan
February 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pmThat explanation is pure garbage. The cost of the site - like most any site, really - is in establishing it, not so much in maintaining it.
Another daily example of lies, lies, and more lies. If the administration does not like information critical of it, they manipulate it, discredit it, or, in this, case bury it - even their own data.
But, I did not expect anything different. We’ve only had seven years of this same crap to get us acclimated to it. I’m only sometimes surprised at the various ways they find to continue with their deceitful, dishonest ways.
My dad ( WWII vet, Korea, etc.) said how lucky were were to not live in the USSR where those damn Reds kept their citizens in the dark, owned the press, lied and/or hid all the information on government operations. Big secretive state.
Wow. I bet Stalin and Khrushchev would be so proud right now. George Bush has brought their ideology and governmental operations right to our doorstep, and without a shot being fired.
Nyet to Premier Bushky! Impeach them all, and do it now!
February 13th, 2008 at 3:20 pmSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
DAMMIT! you weren’t suppose to notice.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:26 pmNow we’ll have to round you up and detain you for an indefinite period of time.
Of course, you won’t need counsel, as you won’t be charged with any criminal action, just subversive activity as defined by the fearless codpiece_in_Chief.
InMotion Hosting, Inc (USA) | Host Interview
Value Max Plan - $5/mo (Plan Value 80018)
Linux | Check Host Reliability
99% (172 ratings posted)
$5.00 a month
I’ve got $5.00 on it… who’s willing to chip in?
February 13th, 2008 at 3:27 pmFollowing up on my previous comment, #23, it would seem like someone with good investigative skill and the FOIA (yeah, I know, insert joke here) could find out the budget for this website and a breakdown of costs.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:28 pmI’m in fer $5, belac.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:29 pmOops, I meant #21
February 13th, 2008 at 3:29 pmTired; is your dad still around to see the sh!t we are in now? And if so, what does he have to say about it?
February 13th, 2008 at 3:31 pmNaturally, they solved this problem by voting to send everyone a check, and cutting taxes to pay for it.
Right.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:36 pmI’m in fer $5, belac.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — February 13, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
Sweet, now all we have to do is get through to the President and tell him that we’ve found a sweet server that’ll cut down on costs and still allow them to get the data out… um… oh, I get it…
February 13th, 2008 at 3:37 pmA message on the website states that it was shut down due to budgetary contraints. Once again proof that these people live in an irony-free zone.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:38 pmThis is like Bush shutting down the EPA libraries to supposedly save all of $2 million, which is what we spend in Iraq about every 11 minutes.
It was never about saving money — but it was about shutting the public off from information that the government found embarrassing or potentially harmful to its corporate friends.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:39 pmA message on the website states that it was shut down due to budgetary contraints. Once again proof that these people live in an irony-free zone.
Comment by shoeless — February 13, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
Yeah, but they used a really small font so they wouldn’t take up so much of the tubes-… ya see, on the digi-web ya have to be aware of your datum files and whatnot- otherwise things get clogged and people have trouble watching the YouTube…
February 13th, 2008 at 3:43 pmUm…how much does it cost to keep this website running? If our leaders were truly interested in cutting spending, surely they could find some bigger items to focus on (the war in Iraq, the constant funneling of money toward our no-bid contractors, etc.).
This is a little bit like a person cutting their caloric intake by having a Diet Coke with their pizza, buffalo wings, cheese fries, and banana split instead of a regular Coke.
When the “official” reason is this weak, a sensible person has to ask what there is to hide.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:44 pmThese aren’t the data you are looking for…
You can go about your business…
February 13th, 2008 at 3:46 pmThese aren’t the data you are looking for…
You can go about your business…
Comment by RUCerious — February 13, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
Move along, move along…
February 13th, 2008 at 3:48 pmRemember, the Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded
February 13th, 2008 at 3:54 pmYeah, but they used a really small font so they wouldn’t take up so much of the tubes-… ya see, on the digi-web ya have to be aware of your datum files and whatnot- otherwise things get clogged and people have trouble watching the YouTube…
Comment by belac
Oh, I thought they just couldn’t afford the big font.
I heard Bush sent his budget to Congress over the internets. The chapter on defense spending alone is big enough to clog up the series of tubes.
February 13th, 2008 at 3:55 pmAccording to the FY2009 Congressional Budget Justification, the budget for Economic and Statistical Analysis at the DOC is $80.3 million for FY2008, with $90.6 million requested for FY2009. I don’t see anything specifically about this web site, but it would seem to be part of their mission:
http://www.osec.doc.gov/ bmi/ budget/ 09CBJ/ ESA-BEA%20FY2009Congressional%20Justification.pdf
February 13th, 2008 at 4:00 pmThe Ministry of Propaganda strikes again!
Just another act of desperation by the cheney/bush criminal enterprise.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:01 pmComment by shoeless — February 13, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
Ahh, but Congress is just down the street so it didn’t have too far to travel… ya see, technology is easy to understand if you just use “common sense”
February 13th, 2008 at 4:02 pmProbably a really short internets tube running from da Casa Blanca to the Congress…
February 13th, 2008 at 4:06 pmBut it runs uphill. No way that bloated defense budget is going to make through those tubes.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:13 pmWith trucks in the way, too!
Seriously, this is what they meant by “gumming it to death.” Everything, all of it, through 01-09.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:14 pmSomebody probably told the chymp they’d have to pay the Native Americans for an Apache server license.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:20 pmThe strategy has been quite apparent for some time now. The Repubs plan to make “happy talk” about the economy until they are driven from office and then blame the coming recession (or depression) on democrats. The challenge for Bush people is that the economy is deteriorating faster than they figured it would and it’s becoming harder and harder to avoid the truth about it before Bush leaves office.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:27 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — February 13, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
But will it work? I tend to think that the American people are starting to show serious signs of “happy talk” fatigue.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:41 pmAfter a while, all that sunshine being blown up our a$$es starts to sunburn and peel.
I know that Bush et al. doesn’t seem to care but I think they’re queering the pitch for the other Repubs in the short and long term…
1984 came twenty years late
February 13th, 2008 at 5:04 pmOr they could just take one day off — just one day — from Iraq and use the $275,000,000 to pay for it and thousand’s of other things.
February 13th, 2008 at 7:37 pmWhy is anyone surprised? Hiding the data which doesn’t report what they want it to or say it does is a frequent practice by the Bush administration. Am I the only one who remembers that the Bush administration used to collect data about terrorist activity worldwide during the first term? Can anyone tell me why they don’t do that anymore? Yup, you guessed it…the reports were showing that terrorist activity was actually increasing around the globe rather than decreasing as the Bush administration was claiming and wanted everyone to believe it was, so they simply stopped collecting (or at least publishing) the data.
February 13th, 2008 at 7:47 pmThanks for the well presented information Kay! It is all true… unfortunatly!
February 13th, 2008 at 10:04 pmThey’re going to go balls-out to cover and lie and prop things up until the day the chimp leaves office. The day after when the whole thing comes crashing down, they’ll say: “It didn’t happen onn our watch, it’s all Obama’s fault!”.
February 13th, 2008 at 10:27 pmGreat way to tell economy is in the dumps…shut down a government site because of money…
Too, funny…
Bush = bass ackwards
February 13th, 2008 at 11:28 pmBush should be hung upside down from the ceiling and beaten like a piñata (or water-boarded)!!
But seriously, isn’t there anyone who’s read this who has contacts with a tv station? This bit of news looks really newsworthy, and what better way to bring this to the attention of MORE people!!
February 14th, 2008 at 1:24 am“Hey, illegal preemptive wars cost money, you know.”
War? I thought it was an occupation?
February 14th, 2008 at 1:30 amOnce again the head chimp of BUSHCO speaks,lies, lies, and more lies that is all we are going to continue to hear until JAN 09.We should be used to it by now after 7yrs.This latest escapade is just what BUSHCO needs to confirm to me that him and his crime family need to go on trial for WAR CRIMES and CIVILIAN CRIMES also.To the rest of the world DUBYA has made this once great country of ours look like a FARCE.People please call, write and e-mail your senators and congressmen/women and let them know we want this web site back on.The creep is hiding something and we as the PEOPLE of this country demand action.Tell me again how the media is to blame,does fox news tell us lies too when they talk about the economy and we should just it around and “viola” everythings rosy.To coincidental for me to swallow….
February 14th, 2008 at 8:59 amThe Government’s short of money? Legalize marijuana, there’s $40 billion annually right there! That should keep economicindicators running.
Cost to society in ending the prohibition - NOTHING. Cost to society in perpetuating the prohibition - increased taxes, increased crime, funding of criminal organizations, drug testing nonusers in workplaces and schools, alienation within families and society itself, death by prohibition-related crime and enforcement activities, risk to every nonuser of SWAT-style police actions or home invasions due to being wrongly suspected of marijuana involvement. The list goes on. 800,000 people are arrested every year for marijuana-related offenses, the benefit to society which pays for these arrests and subsequent judicial activity and sentencing - NOTHING.
Legalize marijuana and save economicindicators!
February 14th, 2008 at 1:18 pmYou’ve still got other government websites, don’t get too down.
Why, you can still visit Barney’s place on the web, it’s still operating.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/barney/
February 14th, 2008 at 2:38 pmeh, “portal” in question is just a list of 15 links that don’t even change from report to report, current one is always there. Copy the links, easy, take you about 10 seconds if you know how to work with a browser.
much ado about nothing…..
February 14th, 2008 at 7:28 pmthey haven’t found a way yet to hide job performance indicators: 30% approval and plummeting, but I’m sure they’re working on it. And many more Repugnicans expecting unemployed status following the next election. Better hope Obama doesn’t cut their benefits!
They can’t lower the bar far enough to make their own corruption, negligence, malfeasance, sheer incompetence and rampant stupidity look good, even compared to third world dictatorships like Chavez, Kim Jong Il and W’s buddy and fellow despot, Vlad (the Impaler) Putin! Even he’s envious of the clampdown on information and civil liberties that routinely goes on in W’s USA.
Can’t wait ’til all the lying stooges are in the Hague on trial for their crimes against humanity…
February 14th, 2008 at 10:19 pm“Make it so, Number One. They all resemble Number Two.”
Don’t like the news out of Iraq deny reality
Don’t like the news on the economy shut down the website
Don’t like the news on climate change deny reality
Don’t like the news that you’re going to lose shut down the election.
This Congress has so completely failed its constitutionally mandated oversight responsibilities that it has sent a loud and clear message to the Bush Administration that it’s “OK” to postpone the constitutionally mandated election. They don’t do any anything about the kill crazy mercenaries in Iraq, illegal spying on citizens, corrupt contracts in New Orleans, and hundreds of other abuses of power. What does Bush-Cheney have to fear from never holding a General Election until one or both of them is dead?
February 14th, 2008 at 11:23 pmWHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? HE’S DOING IT TO PROTECT US FROM THE TERRORISTS!!!
February 15th, 2008 at 1:20 amEphedra and Ephedrine diet pills are scientifically proven to melt fat and raise metabolism without diet or exercise.
EphBurn 25 is the classic ECA Stack just like the original Stacker 2. It will give you the strong thermogenic fat burning effect naturally. You can get it here:
http://www.thatswholesale.com
February 15th, 2008 at 8:17 amWelcome to the Soviet Union. All love to the Revered Leader.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:00 pmEphedra and Ephedrine diet pills are scientifically proven to melt fat and raise metabolism without diet or exercise.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:02 pmComment by stacker2ephedra — February 15, 2008 @ 8:17 am
They’re also scientifically proven to kill you. Piss off, stacker.
“The recognition of our despot may also come before the destruction of
February 15th, 2008 at 2:18 pmthe constitution; the moment for this recognition will come when the
peoples, utterly wearied by the irregularities and incompetence - a matter
which we shall arrange for - of their rulers, will clamor: “Away with them
and give us one king over all the earth who will unite us and annihilate the causes of disorders - frontiers, nationalities, religions, State debts - who will give us peace and quiet which we cannot find under our rulers and representatives.”
This is a tactic of all governments whose actions cannot withstand the scrutiny of just men and women. We have this here in Canada in BC as government reports have to be applied for under the Freedom Of Information Act (FOI) and there are fees attached to each report. Somewhere we have forgotten that it is our taxes that pay the salaries of those who write the reports, contract out for these reports, attain research for the basis of these reports. Every move to make information about the government’s health or actions, like checking it’s pulse when you look at economic studies and reports, less accessible or affordable is a red flag that should not only be noted but challenged. It’s your government, you own it the way Canadians own ours. Some of us are very ashamed when we see what our government does in the world community (trying to force the Ueropean Union to accept Genetically Engineered crops and foodstuff against their will is the latest) but it is still up to us to educate others on the way a government is supposed to work. When we say “Democracy” with a capital D, do we know that that means every citizen not only has a say but has the responsibility of that vote. The fact that the situation is so out of hand in your country and in our is that we have been kept in the dark. There are so few who work to keep the information out there, and so many who would rather keep the cloak of darkness. Best wishes to all of you who work at keeping our societies alive and free. Anyone who wants to can join in. There are innumerable opportunities. The pay, however, is in non-monetary units: self esteem, self confidence, and a deep feeling of self satisfaction.
February 15th, 2008 at 3:33 pmIts just a matter of time before stuff like GDP, CPI and other government economic data become classified information due to national security concerns.
A nasty though just popped into my mind, perhaps Al Qaeda has infiltrated the derivatives trading desks of leading financial institutions. Of course.
Our economy is being attacked by terrorists! No wonder we can not find OBL, he is soaking up the rays in the Cayman Islands and tanking our economy.
Lets invade the Cayman Islands and occupy them, I am sure the troops will find it more pleasant than Iraq. Besides, 1/4th of global GDP are hiding there evading taxes, we can confiscate it and pay off our debt. War should be profitable, we can steal Iraqs oil, go into the drug business with Afghanistans poppy, oops, we are already doing that, sorry. But where is the money? The Cayman Islands! Where else can you launder 1 trillion per year?.
February 16th, 2008 at 12:21 amPerhaps this is part of the reason Bushco wants to hide as many economic facts as possible:
“With home prices expected to eventually fall 20% to 30% nationally about 10 million households will have negative equity,” explains economist Nouriel Roubini. “Banks will have to eventually recognize that even a plan that freezes the reset of most mortgages will not be enough.
To stop foreclosures they will have to accept a reduction of the face value of the mortgage to the lower current value of the home.
While this may be costly to the banks the alternative of foreclosure and selling such homes in an illiquid market is worse for creditors.
Thus, much more radical policy options should be considered to avoid the biggest foreclosure crisis in US history.”
February 16th, 2008 at 4:44 pmall the people complaining about us being in iraq should shut up or start taking the bus. I mean you could see the hardcore sales job from the very start. Mushroom clouds, yellow cake uranium, centrifuges, weapons of mass destruction and so on. This war has always been about oil and americans will not give up their lifestyle for the unimpeded access to oil. talk about the economy going in the tank. it would if we didn’t have access. We will be there until there is another energy source which means at least another 50 no matter who is in office.
February 20th, 2008 at 7:48 pmThe Strongest fat burners and energizers. Stacker 2 Original, Stacker 3 with Ephedra, Xenadrine RFA-1, Metabolife 356, Lipodrene, Stimerex, Ripped Fuel, Hydroxycut, Ephedra and more with free shipping. Ephedrine diet pills are scientifically proven to melt fat and raise metabolism without diet or exercise.
EphBurn 25 is the classic ECA Stack just like the original Stacker 2. It will give you the strong thermogenic fat burning effect naturally. You can get it here:
http://www.thatswholesale.com
May 31st, 2008 at 12:00 pm