Mukasey: If Bush Issues Signing Statement, He’ll Have To ‘Virtually’ Do The Waterboarding Himself
Mukasey: If Bush Issues Signing Statement, He’ll Have To ‘Virtually’ Do The Waterboarding Himself
Yesterday, the Senate joined the House and voted to “prohibit the CIA from using waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods,” approving legislation that would bring the CIA’s interrogation methods in line with the Army Field Manual.
President Bush has threatened to veto the bill. If Congress manages to override his veto, Bush could issue one of his infamous signing statements. But in an interview with NPR, Attorney General Michael Mukasey said that if Bush issues a signing statement on waterboarding, no interrogation officials will abide by it and the President will have to do the torture himself:
MUKASEY: The question of conflict between the president’s Article II powers and statute is one that I think has been, to a large extent, overblown. [...]
OK, let’s assume that the president wants, despite a finding of illegality under law, to have waterboarding done, who is it precisely that he’s going to get to do it? He would virtually have to do it himself.
Listen here:
Mukasey has repeatedly said that he personally finds waterboarding “repugnant” and even believes that it would be torture if administered on him. He still refuses, however, to say whether he believes the tactic is illegal.
UPDATE: In 2005, after Congress passed a law outlawing the torture of detainees, Bush issued a signing statement saying that he would “construe [the law] in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President…as Commander in Chief.”
UPDATE II: Today in the White House press briefing, Perino addressed Bush’s upcoming veto:
[T]he reasons the President would veto the bill are the reasons that are laid out in our statement of administration policy, which is available on the OMB website. There were four basic reasons for it. But the main reason is that it would repeal the entire enhanced interrogation program that this Congress passed on a bipartisan basis in October of 2006. It’s the program that General Hayden has said has saved lives. This is not the President talking, this is the intelligence community.
And I think that everyone will just have to put it to a — they’ll have to ask themselves, do you trust the intelligence community more than you trust Democrats who are beholden to their left wing? And that’s the debate that this country is going to have.
Transcript:
SHAPIRO (voice-over): Mukasey has said he finds waterboarding personally repugnant and that he might consider it torture if done to him. But on the plane flying to Baghdad, he told me that would not affect his consideration of whether it is a legal interrogation technique. Because in the context of a CIA interrogation, he said it would be used on very different people in very different circumstances.
Mukasey quoted CIA Director Michael Hayden’s statement that out of a large number of terrorism detainees, 100 were subjected to coercive interrogation techniques.
MUKASEY: And of those three were waterboarded. So these are people who self-select for their ability to resist the technique.
SHAPIRO (voice-over): Congress has passed laws in the last few years that Mukasey says could relate specifically to waterboarding; the Military Commissions Act and the Detainee Treatment Act, for example.
But I pointed out the president has asserted the right to ignore laws passed by Congress using his commander in chief powers under Article II of the Constitution. Mukasey said he doesn’t think that’s a serious threat.
MUKASEY: The question of conflict between the president’s Article II powers and statute is one that I think has been, to a large extent, overblown.
SHAPIRO (voice-over): Plus, he said, if the president decides to ignore a law that appears to outlaw waterboarding and authorize the technique, there are other problems.
MUKASEY: OK, let’s assume that the president wants, despite a finding of illegality under law, to have waterboarding done, who is it precisely that he’s going to get to do it? He would virtually have to do it himself.
SHAPIRO (voice-over): Mukasey said the people who would ordinarily do the waterboarding, CIA interrogators, just wouldn’t do it under those circumstances.
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And don't you think for one moment he wouldn't. Just for the sheer exhilaration and pleasure.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:54 amImpeach Mukasey for not investigating the torture that has already been admitted to.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:54 amWeasel
February 14th, 2008 at 11:54 amI mean, if he'd milk a horse, he'd be able to carry out a waterboarding, dontcha think?
February 14th, 2008 at 11:56 ambushco has plenty of sadists who would BEG for that job...
February 14th, 2008 at 12:00 pmRiiiiiiiiight! ... because noone in THIS administration is blindly loyal and they ALL respect the laws and Congress sooooooo much.
Please write Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein and tell them how well their vote on him has turned out.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:00 pmTheyre all scum
F@#CK any American who condones torture.
The penalty for torture should be death, especially when that torture is carried out by a military or government. All involved must die for crimes against humanity.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:00 pmBush and company don't have the cajones, they'll just farm it off to one of the mercenary companies that have already made themselves rich thanks to Bush. And remember, these companies have virtual immunity for everything that they do, up to and including rape and murder. They won't turn their noses up at a little torture.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:02 pmPerhaps SM, gigi, ct and the other trolls that litter this space would volunteer, so the chymp wouldn't have to get his widda hands wet...
February 14th, 2008 at 12:08 pmWeasel
Comment by gumby — February 14, 2008 @ 11:54 am
Yeah, King George has probably set a record for appointing 3 weasels in a row to AG.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:11 pmThe Texas sheriff that was convicted in 1983 for waterboarding confessions out of suspects, and spending 10years doing hard time might tell you it was ALREADY F_KING ILLEGAL.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:16 pmThis guy is exactly why the democrats shouldn't have approved any of the idiots for Attorney General. They have all proven to be Yes men and partisan hacks.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:19 pmHe would "virtually" have to do it himself.
They're probably already in negotiations with this guy to build the new "Virtua-Torture 2000" Waterboarding Robot...
http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/17/internet-hunting-coming-to-texas/
February 14th, 2008 at 12:19 pmThe chickenshit little punk Bush used to stuff firecrackers up frogs behinds and blow them up.
So you can bet that that sociopathic sicko would indeed love to water-TORTURE someone, he would enjoy the hell out of it.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials '09
Buck Fush
February 14th, 2008 at 12:19 pm"the President will have to do the torture himself"
- - Bread and circuses, Mr. A.G. What hooey.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:20 pmRiiiiiiiiight! … because noone in THIS administration is blindly loyal and they ALL respect the laws and Congress sooooooo much.
Comment by Peter C — February 14, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
The first thing that crossed my mind when I heard Mukasey make this asinine statement.
Dontcha love the stupid faux-logic that right-wingers use in place of actual analysis and debate?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:20 pm"Virtual" - the only Reality that Bush knows.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:25 pmDon't tempt him, Mike. The only question is if Cheney would let him, or couldn't bear not to do it himself.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:26 pmI heard that Frank is really a terrorist planted here in the US. And I have this inkling that he is planning on bombing something. Somewhere. Sometime. Maybe…
So I think we should find this suspected criminal and cut his fingers off, one by one, until he tells us his nefarious plans. Oh, he will cry and tell you that he really is the innocent zit faced punk he appears to be but don’t believe him. When we run out of fingers we can do the toes. Someone bring the rose pruners, these kitchen knives are ok for fingers but we need something more solid for toe bones.
Ignore the piss running down his legs and the cries for Mommy, it’s all part of the subterfuge. In the end, if we don’t get anything of value out of the little puke, don’t despair. At least we can sleep comfortable tonight with the knowledge that little Frank won’t be blowing something up. Somewhere. Maybe…
February 14th, 2008 at 12:27 pmFrank ought to read the Constitution's description of Congressional powers:
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
**the President is an "Officer thereof", isn't he Frank**
February 14th, 2008 at 12:30 pmit's too damn bad bushco is not lying about steroid use...
February 14th, 2008 at 12:32 pmthen we'd see some REAL action in congress to deal with
that most outrageous of crimes - self abuse...
So maybe Frank M or some other Chimpy-leg-humper can tell us;
how exactly is the "ticking time bomb" scenario that's used to justify what would otherwise be a crime (torture) any different from a man stealing to feed his starving family?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:32 pmOh I'm sure Mr. Mike Mucousy would help the cheerleader prince, wouldncha Mike? You owe those boys big-time for that job, dontcha? Just like every other "made man" in this ongoing gop organized crime venture. Prison-rape is too good for the lot of ya.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:37 pmStealing to feed a starving family is still a crime - a lesser crime, but a crime nevertheless.
Comment by Frank M — February 14, 2008 @ 12:35 pm
So is torture.
You still haven't identified why it's any different.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:38 pmwhat are you babblling about frank? thanks, though, for stopping by to serve as whipping post around here one more time. enjoy the abuse.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:38 pmFrankie just confessed to be willing to commit war crimes.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:38 pmIf the President, or someone in that chain of command, tells me to waterboard a muslim fanatic to find out where the rest of the terrorist cell is hiding, I will not hesitate to do it. Whatever the weak-willed weasels in the Congress are saying about it is irrelevant.
Comment by Frank M — February 14, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
Does this mean that Francine is enlisting and heading to the Middle East to be ready to follow those orders?
One would think that if a person in the United States had been identified as a Muslin fanatic that his or her associates had been identified and legal steps were being taken long before the ticking had begun.
If I am ever within earshot of a politician talking about a mushroom cloud I swear I'll yell back "I want mushroom pizza".
February 14th, 2008 at 12:38 pmComment by katy — February 14, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
This got me thinking. Steroids are used to hasten the healing process after an injury and to bulk up the muscles to be more powerful. Isn't this EXACTLY what BushCo has done with terror, the unitary executive, wiretaps, torture, etc - "heal" bad media coverage and gain more power?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:42 pmWould someone please inform Francine that unless she's on Active Duty in the military, she's not IN the chain of command...
February 14th, 2008 at 12:42 pmHas anyone ever heard of bush doing the dirty work that he wanted done himself? Or Cheney for that matter. Good Republicans always find a clean up person for their crap. With taxpaid Attorneys working around the clock to cover their ass, who would feel smug.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:42 pmhahah we all know that no president has ever used his influence to get somebody else to do something illegal, right? wow.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:45 pmTelevised questioning of steroid use so everyone is diverted from what is really going on. Yeah, thats a real worry steroid use in athletics.
And revision to comment #31 - Who wouldn't feel smug with taxpaid Attorneys working around the clock to cover their ass.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:45 pmFrank, if the prez told you to hit yourself in the head with a big hammer, of course you would do it. SO....'GET R DONE'.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:46 pmOK, let’s assume that the president wants, despite a finding of illegality under law, to have waterboarding done, who is it precisely that he’s going to get to do it? He would virtually have to do it himself.
- - - -
No, not really.
Someone else would do the torture and then the President would demand retroactive immunity.
Hmmm, sounds familiar.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pmThey'll just pay Blackwater to do it. Those guys will kill or torture anyone if someone payed them for it. (and sometimes they just do it for the fun of it)
February 14th, 2008 at 12:49 pmIf Congress overrode a veto, there wouldn't be any place for a "signing statement."
When you override a veto, the bill becomes law without the President's signature.
That's kinda the whole point.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:49 pmI doubt if that little principle of constitutional theory would stop the Deciderer from trying, john.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:50 pm"no interrogation officials will abide by it "
Sorry, but someone needs to go back and study human psychology. There are more than enough folks who would do it for the thrill. There are more than enough people who would do it for obedience to authority. etc. etc.
Even if the above paragraph is not true, go back and look at the simulated prison experiments where the "guards" turned sadistic within a couple of days.
Go back and look at the REAL WORLD situation of Abu Ghraib (and note that several of the soldiers implicated were, in their civilian jobs, prison guards and this had all sorts of fancy training on treating prisoners and how to deal with the pressures.
May I nominate that his nickname be Puke-kassey ?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:50 pmHas anyone ever heard of bush doing the dirty work that he wanted done himself? Or Cheney for that matter. Good Republicans always find a clean up person for their crap. With taxpaid Attorneys working around the clock to cover their ass, who would feel smug.
Comment by texaslady — February 14, 2008 @ 12:42 pm
Perhaps Frank M is admitting the existance of the Troll Troops? They are obligated to follow orders because they are being paid to post here.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:53 pmSince this thread is about torture, yet again, here's a question that came to mind the other day. Who actually ORDERED that water boarding back in 2002 in the first place?
Which INDIVIDUAL w/ in the Brusch Admin said, "Do it"? We've heard all about who was water boarded. we've heard from who did the actual deed, we know who issued the phony opinions claiming it was legal, who destroyed the tapes, etc, etc, etc.
But have we ever found out WHo specifically said, "Git 'er done"?
Was it Von Rumsfeld? Biggus Dickus? The Toy Emperor himself? Who?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:54 pmNote also Mukasey's opinion that
"The question of conflict between the president’s Article II powers and statute is one that I think has been, to a large extent, overblown."
Given that Bush has repeatedly attached signing statments to legislation that reverse in spirit, intent and espeicially the letter of the law AND has ACTED in contravention of the law no rational person and no honest legal mind would consider Bush's supposed Article II powers as uniquely applied by him to be of "overblown" concern.
Mukasey's opinion seems to be that using signing statements to reverse the purpose of laws is of no particular interest, ergo any action taken derived from such signing statments is of no great interest either.
Mukasey is implying that Bsuh would have to be caught red-handed personally torturing someone before Mukasey would take any interest whatsoever.
As othewr have noted here, this was and is all too predicatable. The stupid Democrats should have let the AG position go unfilled until a rational candidfate was found. It wasn't like the Justice Department was in danger of being corrupted--it already had been by Ashcroft and Gonzalez.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:54 pmFrank M. is looking for a job with the team as "waterboarding-boy"
February 14th, 2008 at 12:58 pm"... the existence of the Troll Troops?"
Comment by Saint Augustine — February 14, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
Beginning to sound like "The Lord of The Rings" here, but that just might be appropriate, seeing how some of our trolls do seem to live in a fantasy world of their own making.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:02 pmUsually bush/cheney do whatever they want and then get a bill to provide immunity to whatever law they broke, so wonder why the waterboarding is different. And remember the tapes were destroyed, or were they?
February 14th, 2008 at 1:02 pmActually, Frank wants to be Team Troll's Official Fluffler.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pmRight, texaslady, and I don't think it's an accident that BruschCo tells so many lies in so many different directions that you end up having no idea what's what anymore.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:04 pmAnd don’t you think for one moment he wouldn’t. Just for the sheer exhilaration and pleasure.
Comment by RUCerious — February 14, 2008 @ 11:54 am
Absolutely my first thought after reading this post.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:06 pmSome expert on torture and interrogation was quoted in a thread here as saying, "Torture doesn't provide reliable intel. People torture because THEY WANT TO TORTURE."
Back to you in the studio, Skippy...
February 14th, 2008 at 1:08 pmSomeone said, "you have to be able to eat and lie at the same time to be a politician." I think this administration has mastered that.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:13 pmSomeone said, “you have to be able to eat and lie at the same time to be a politician.†I think this administration has mastered that.
Comment by texaslady — February 14, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
But I think if they were pressed for time, they'd definitely skip lunch.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:20 pmBush wouldn't know which end to pour the water in.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:25 pmLibLover #48 ~ And I can just visualize his smirk with a little 'heh' at the end...
February 14th, 2008 at 1:33 pmIsn’t this EXACTLY what BushCo has done with terror, the unitary executive, wiretaps, torture, etc - “heal†bad media coverage and gain more power?
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian — February 14, 2008 @ 12:42 pm
send that up to waxman... i want to see the outrage...
February 14th, 2008 at 1:44 pmyea...
The reason we haven't had any success in selling impeachment to Congress is because we've been calling it the wrong thing.
We just need to start calling it an "Enhanced Congressional Oversight Technique" and then they'll be all for it.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:01 pmBush Will Veto Ban On Torture
February 14th, 2008 at 2:09 pmCBS News - 1 hour ago
The White House said that President Bush will veto a bill that would ban the use of waterboarding by the CIA. The president claims such a prohibition will inhibit the collection of information.
Bush can get Jeff Gannon to help.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:32 pmThe president claims such a prohibition will inhibit the collection of mis-information.
Comment by katy — February 14, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
Had to fix that for ya.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:40 pmRefresh my memory, isn't Frank the one who said he wouldn't join the services because he was afraid of his own safety?
Just wondering.
r
February 14th, 2008 at 3:02 pmWhatever the weak-willed weasels in the Congress are saying about it is irrelevant.
Comment by Frank M — February 14, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
and real Americans will enjoy your execution, you America-hating coward.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:12 pmImpeach Mukasey for not investigating the torture that has already been admitted to.
What? So far we've gotten more straight talk from him than Ashcroft and Gonzales combined. Anyway, you set a pretty goddamn low bar for impeachment -- its kneejerk idiocy like this that allows impeachable offenses to be committed with impunity.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:38 pmBush and company don’t have the cajones, they’ll just farm it off to one of the mercenary companies that have already made themselves rich thanks to Bush. And remember, these companies have virtual immunity for everything that they do, up to and including rape and murder. They won’t turn their noses up at a little torture.
Contractors are exempt from UCMJ and Iraqi censure or prosecution -- unless said waterboarding was carried out over there, 'farming off' illegal coercive methods would carry the same penalties for any involved party.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:42 pmOK, let’s assume that the president wants, despite a finding of illegality under law, to have waterboarding done, who is it precisely that he’s going to get to do it? He would virtually have to do it himself.
- - - -
No, not really.
Someone else would do the torture and then the President would demand retroactive immunity.
Hmmm, sounds familiar.
That's right, so keep it illegal -- if there is a place for torture, it needs to be on a case-by-case basis, which can only take place if torture is not a sanctioned tool for interrogation. If torture is legal under proscribed limits, every gov't spook will consider there case to warrant torture. Yeah, its a delicate balancing act -- every potential torturer must weigh whether the circumstances are dire enough to commit a grossly illegal action -- but if torture is carried out without severe strictures, it will become systemic. Ex post facto, one would be hard-pressed to find someone who undertook waterboarding to have done it as anything less than a last resort, if the penalty was severe. While it may seem to place an undue moral burden upon the potential torturer, I personally feel that anyone given license to torture should be willing to carry out such a moral balancing act -- otherwise, they should not have been given clearance to be in such a tenuous position. Any thoughts?
February 14th, 2008 at 4:56 pm