Evolution To Be Taught As Scientific ‘Theory’ In Florida Because Of Right-Wing Campaign
Evolution To Be Taught As Scientific ‘Theory’ In Florida Because Of Right-Wing Campaign
Today, Florida’s Board of Education voted 4-3 to change standards for teaching science in Florida’s public schools. The Miami Herald reports:
For the first time ever, evolution is to be taught clearly and explicitly in Florida classrooms now that the Florida Board of Education Tuesday approved a batch of new science standards that says the ”E” word.
But there’s a catch: Evolution will be taught as “the Scientific Theory of Evolution.”
Previously, Florida’s science standards referred to evolution as “biological changes over time.” The shift to evolution was widely embraced by Florida’s scientists, school teachers, and university professors.
Yet a successful lobbying campaign by a coalition of conservative groups, such as the Christian Coalition of Florida and the Florida Family Policy Council, managed to convince the board to insert the caveat. They said they were “vigorously opposed” to the evolution language because it “clashes with their religious convictions or their personal beliefs that evolution has not been proved.”
Unfortunately, however, the right’s tactics seemed to be mostly driven by ignorance. At a public hearing, one Florida Panhandle resident held up two oranges and mockingly said that “after reading all the material” on evolution, he has a “conviction” that one of the oranges “is the first cousin of somebody’s pet cat” and the other, “the parent of somebody’s pet dog.” Watch it:
Years of evolution-less education have biased Florida residents. A recent St. Petersburg Times poll of Florida residents found that “only 22 percent want public schools to teach an evolution-only curriculum, while 50 percent want only faith-based theories such as creationism or intelligent design.” A 2005 national review gave Florida’s science standards a failing grade because of its “superficiality of the treatment of evolutionary biology.”
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Evolution is a theory.
It also happens to very likely be true.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:32 pmThe guy with the oranges convinced me! Sign me up for the Crazy Train!
February 19th, 2008 at 5:35 pmEvolution is a theory that morons cannot understand because one has to be able to reason and think for oneself. Scratch the righties on that ability. I think evolution left them behind.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:36 pmThis country is DEvolving.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:36 pmYou have to be active in your school boards.
These board members will lose thier posts just like everywhere else when board members dial back learning standards.
Keep an eye on your schools! Our kids aren't in school yet but we got to PTA already getting to know these people. It's your duty! Just like voting!
February 19th, 2008 at 5:36 pmOn the positive side, we finally have a YouTube video that's funnier than the "Leave Britney Alone" guy.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:37 pmThis is freaking nuts, Evolution is reality, creationism is a fraud. God is a man made faerie tale meant to give power to a few to control the masses. Man has made up gods since he could think.
The magical invisible faerie in the sky does not exist, it is insane that modern man still believes in faerie tales.
Glad my daughter goes to Mount Holyoke in Mass., and not Florida.
Buck Fush
February 19th, 2008 at 5:38 pmWell, the right is so far behind on the evolutionary scale that they lack the fundamental thought processes to understand it. Too bad they're allowed to vote. Other chimps aren't.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pm50% of Floridians want only faith-based theories taught?
Wow.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pmGravity is a theory.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pmJust one more issue to make us the laughing stock of the civilized world.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pmI'd rather be related to a chimp than any neocon.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:40 pmGood.
Comment by Frank M — February 19, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
you think that moving mankind backwards is a "win" for your side, don't you, frankm. Payback will be pretty vicious, though, as your party gets decimated and buried in the next few cycles.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:40 pmEventually the citizens of Florida will be too stupid to figure out how to use a doorknob and then the cats and dogs will take over.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:42 pmHate to say this, but what is the Freudian interpretation of him holding the 2 oranges ? Male or Female picture.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:42 pm"Reality" is a theory. It can be proven "not" to exist.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:43 pmAnd this is way beyond an evolution/creationism problem. It's a problem with science education in general.
Scratch that - it's a problem with teaching of critical thinking and logic skills in general. As Mr. Orange demonstrates, this is not a new problem in this country.
There are a frighteningly large number of people who are apparently incapable of logical thought, choosing instead to memorize and repeat whatever is taught to them. The Reading/Writing/Arithmetic teach-to-the-test curriculum of No Child Left Behind is just the latest symptom of this problem.
A far more cynical person than myself might just conclude that this has been the plan over the last several decades - to raise a generation or two of children to be good listeners and good followers and not question what they're told to do.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:43 pmEvolution is a theory.
It also happens to very likely be true.
Comment by Charles James Napier
I suppose our naive little troll has some proof to back this up. That's the thing about theories, they don't need proof to back them up whereas science does need proof.
I feel sorry for the people living in Florida. If I was a parent with a child in a Florida school, I would object strongly about their being taught evolution as a science.
I once read an article about some people who think that earth is a scientific experiment by advanced beings on another planet. They seeded this planet with man and are watching how we evolve. If that turned out to be true, can't you see all those evangelical heads blowing up.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:44 pmSince 50% of Floridians only want faith-based theories taught would they be willing to accept Taoism as the singular religion presented to their kids? Or do they only accept their right-wing interpretation of Christianity.
Something tells me they believe its okay to teach religion in school as long as its their religion.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:44 pmOne last time, folks. If it can't be tested, it's not science.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:45 pmEvolution in Florida? Anything of note since Epcot?
February 19th, 2008 at 5:46 pmAmerican devolution 101.
This nation is toast.
-GSD
February 19th, 2008 at 5:46 pmBugs Bunny had the right idea. Just saw off that State.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:46 pmI went to Catholic HS in Florida in the early 80's and we learned about Evolution. It was explained as part of God's plan.
My fellow Floridians have lost it.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:48 pmSweet, well, I guess I'm going to eat some of my relatives now.
LOL
February 19th, 2008 at 5:50 pmkansas all over again.......they will wake up to the fact and try to change it quietly and with as little attention being drawn to it as possible......
February 19th, 2008 at 5:50 pm“Reality†is a theory. It can be proven “not†to exist.
Comment by DieNowForPeace — February 19, 2008 @ 5:43 pm
Reality is consciousness based. This is a fact, not theory. This 5 minute video illustrates this unquestionably. I strongly urge all my TP friends to watch it. Pay close attention to the last 30 seconds.
Reality is nothing until consciousness is focused on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
February 19th, 2008 at 5:50 pmI suppose next they will be teaching the "scientific theory" that the earth is round. Followed by the "scientific theory" that all matter is composed of atoms.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:50 pmChuckles is right for once.
Evolution IS a theory.
BFD. The problem with the fundies who think this is a blow against evolution is they don't understand the term "theory" as it is used in science:
In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by experimental evidence.
Evolution is a scientific theory. It originates from and is supported by experimental data and observation.
"Faith-based theories such as creationism and intelligent design"can never be scientific theories because they cannot be evaluated according to scientific method -- predicted result, experimentation to test the prediction, analysis of data.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:51 pmBugs Bunny had the right idea. Just saw off that State.
Comment by hellinabucket — February 19, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
Ok but can we keep Miami? I like Miami.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:51 pmflorida actually makes a good case for climate change... the sooner that place sinks into the ocean the better off we all will be...
February 19th, 2008 at 5:51 pmMemo to Technology Companies: Don't hire Floridians or create research facilities in Florida.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:51 pmI went to Catholic HS in Florida in the early 80’s and we learned about Evolution. It was explained as part of God’s plan.
My fellow Floridians have lost it.
Comment by m3vega
And I went to Catholic school in Arizona and I remember pouring Father MacGovern a big scotch and water before the Wednesday am mass. It was 6:30 or 7:00 o'clock in the morning, and there he was tossing back a few. When I asked my Mom and Dad about it, I was told that I was wrong - and if the father did it - it must be God's will. Needless to say, I had a very confusing upbringing.
We need to bring this country back to the version the Founding Fathers had in mind when they created it.
The American Taliban is out in full force - you better watch out.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:54 pmThe American version of the taliban strike again!
February 19th, 2008 at 5:55 pmwhat's next? book burning?
The American Taliban is out in full force - you better watch out.
Comment by StratRat — February 19, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
beat me by 1 minute!
February 19th, 2008 at 5:56 pmAnd I went to Catholic school in Arizona and I remember pouring Father MacGovern a big scotch and water before the Wednesday am mass. It was 6:30 or 7:00 o’clock in the morning, and there he was tossing back a few. When I asked my Mom and Dad about it, I was told that I was wrong - and if the father did it - it must be God’s will. Needless to say, I had a very confusing upbringing.
Comment by StratRat
religion has been used to victomize the poor and weak for millinium.....no wonder they fit so well with the republics.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:58 pmIt's laughable until you think that these religious freaks vote and sit on juries. Ignorance has its consequences.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:59 pmCan't we put a fence up there, instead of between TX and Mexico?
February 19th, 2008 at 5:59 pmAnd I'd also like to recommend the Tex-Mex fence actually be built along the northern border of TX, which should just be given back to Mexico as war reparations or something.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:00 pmIt only took the Church 500 years to apologize to Galileo for daring to say that the sun does not revolve around the earth.
So we can expect an apology from Florida's Board of Education on Feb. 19, 2508.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:00 pmHow about when the Democrats take control it is mandated that no school that teaches creationism as the base of it science curriculum be given federal funds until they fall withing accepted guidelines.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:01 pmSince people seems incapable of or unwilling to understand the difference between a "scientific theory"(a widely accepted hypothesis that explains repeatable obsrevations or results) and "theory" (stuff I think happened but have no way of proving) I propose that we invent a new word to describe the concept.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:03 pmHow about:
Thunck? it stands for (THeory Understood Now to be Common Knowledge)
I think that gets the concept across nicely and when flat-earthers use the word "thunk" they will on occasion be correct
I think that gets the concept across nicely and when flat-earthers use the word “thunk†they will on occasion be correct
Comment by belac
Not a bad idea until you consider Bush has been inventing his own language for years...
February 19th, 2008 at 6:06 pmIt's all part of God's mysterious plan. The line of brain deads that refuse to educate themselves slowly sink through the strata until they are finally forced out of the work chain and die off. The predators like Benny Hin and Patsy Robertson suck dollars from their wallets and hasten the process.
God is using the evolution topic to winnow the simple minded from the population base.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:06 pmEh...Florida is just America's wang...
February 19th, 2008 at 6:10 pmWould someone put these neanderthals into a room and force-feed them the difference between a casual "theory" and a scientific "theory?"
Their poor grasp of vocabulary and lack of understanding of the science involved in theory has confined them to the kindergarten school of thinking.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:12 pmGravity is a theory.
Comment by Guido OBGYN Lover — February 19, 2008 @ 5:39 pm
Not so fast Guido. Let's have some Balance here.... from the Onion :)
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512
Scientists from the Evangelical Center For Faith-Based Reasoning are now asserting that the long-held "theory of gravity" is flawed, and they have responded to it with a new theory of Intelligent Falling.
."Things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if you will, is pushing them down,"
February 19th, 2008 at 6:14 pmThis could backfire on the nuts -- if science teachers teach the correct definition of scientific theory. As for me, this is another reason why I'm glad we homeschool our son (in Florida). We're free to teach that evolution is real, and that there's no controversy among actual scientists.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:14 pmthe guy holding up the oranges is the son of his older sister.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:14 pmNot a bad idea until you consider Bush has been inventing his own language for years…
Comment by StratRat — February 19, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
So why not use that power for good, instead of evil? Words are meant to adapt with meaning- I think Mamet wrote, "If an actor reads one of your lines wrong more than three times, then you wrote it wrong"
February 19th, 2008 at 6:16 pmBadger, I gotta love any point that is sourced to The Onion.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:16 pmThis is almost enough for me to move to FL again. I didn't really like living there the last time but this crap is dope. Last time some freaks wanted to tell me how to teach biology by adding a little equal time for creation, I taught a native American creation version. The parents went apeshit. Turns out that wasn't what they wanted after all.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:16 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UU0dq5YVbs&NR=1
February 19th, 2008 at 6:17 pmComment by Marie — February 19, 2008 @ 6:12 pm
February 19th, 2008 at 6:17 pmExactly why I propose the addition of the word THUNCK to the English language...
Where the hell is Daryll?
February 19th, 2008 at 6:18 pmFrank, where is your horns?
February 19th, 2008 at 6:18 pmBetween the creationists who want to interpret the Bible literally and force their fundamental beliefs into our secular government and their refusal to accept evolution, they are hell-bent on pushing us backward into the 19th century. They may feel more comfortable in the limited, more primitive culture, but the rest of us are not, and we will not have their uneducated opinions take the whole country in the wrong direction.
I was going to list some examples here, but that would be preaching to the choir, because the boneheads wouldn't read it anyway, much less think about it.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:20 pmWow. After watching that complete and utter moron talk about those oranges I am now dumber than I ever thought possible and all the more convinced that Fundamentalist are more mental than fun!
February 19th, 2008 at 6:20 pmAh, they just can't handle the thought that our ancestors were furry little four-legged mammals.
I like the new research coming out these days on evolution and how it doesn't seem to be as linear as they once thought.
Here's a good link to read if you have a minute:
http://nervousaxon.blogspot.com/2007/12/linear-versus-branching-evolution.html
February 19th, 2008 at 6:25 pmThat’s the thing about theories, they don’t need proof to back them up whereas science does need proof.
Comment by bilbobaggins — February 19, 2008 @ 5:44 pm
With all respect, I disagree. Theories are based on the best interpretations of the best available evidences. Science acknowledges that 100% certainty is impossible but none the less the unifiying theories of science do in fact stand on a foundation of proof
February 19th, 2008 at 6:26 pmBetween the creationists who want to interpret the Bible literally and force their fundamental beliefs into our secular government and their refusal to accept evolution, they are hell-bent on pushing us backward into the 19th century. They may feel more comfortable in the limited, more primitive culture, but the rest of us are not, and we will not have their uneducated opinions take the whole country in the wrong direction.
Comment by Marie
sounds like a description of conservatives by fdr:
"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward."
February 19th, 2008 at 6:26 pm~Franklin D. Roosevelt
They should be teaching about devolution!
February 19th, 2008 at 6:27 pmEvolution is a theory...
February 19th, 2008 at 6:28 pmThen again so is gravity...
Maybe Orange Guy should jump off a cliff.
Electromagnetism is a theory...
February 19th, 2008 at 6:28 pmMaybe Orange guy should stick a fork in a socket...
#42, indeed. "Theory" doesn't mean in science what it means in common parlance. Theory is a corpus of laws, axioms and principles used to predict and explain empirical data.
Maxwell's Laws govern how charge and current create electromagnetic fields. The Theory of Electromagnetism is the corpus of applications of these laws to different sources and boundary conditions.
Theory, in science, is contrasted with experiment, not with fact.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pmThat’s the thing about theories, they don’t need proof to back them up whereas science does need proof.
Comment by bilbobaggins — February 19, 2008 @ 5:44 pm
With all respect, I disagree. Theories are based on the best interpretations of the best available evidences. Science acknowledges that 100% certainty is impossible but none the less the unifiying theories of science do in fact stand on a foundation of proof
Comment by dbadass
So what you are saying is that creationism is not a theory but rather it is a belief because it is not backed up by science......is that correct? I agree with that.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pmA "Scientific Theory" is different from a common "theory"
It is not a best guess...
February 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pmEventually the citizens of Florida will be too stupid to figure out how to use a doorknob and then the cats and dogs will take over.
Comment by TheToonGuy — February 19, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
So , instead of Sanitarium's ridiculously stupid "man-on-dog" sex will now be turned around to "dog-on-man" sex ........
February 19th, 2008 at 6:31 pm#65
PeterW said it better than my poorly evolved orange brain could have.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:31 pmSo what you are saying is that creationism is not a theory but rather it is a belief because it is not backed up by science……is that correct? I agree with that.
No, creationism is not a scientific theory because it has no predictive power, and only a purely ad hoc ability to explain observation.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:32 pmSo what you are saying is that creationism is not a theory but rather it is a belief because it is not backed up by science……is that correct? I agree with that.
Comment by Fred — February 19, 2008 @ 6:29 pm
Basically except I do not discount creation because it is not supported by "science". I discount it becuase it is not supported by tangible evidences.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:33 pmI'm really surprised no one brought this point up yet, but here it goes.
Evolution is both FACT and THEORY. The FACT is that organisms do change over time; that is indisputable amongst biologists and other people who follow science.. The THEORY part is the mechanism of change.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Florida's court and the creationist teams have sure fudged up with this ruling.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:33 pmIf an actor reads one of your lines wrong more than three times, then you wrote it wrongâ€
Comment by belac
Well it seems like the right side does better with pictures - rather than words. Words make them nervous and weak. Because the right side is so disappointed with itself, I don't want to upset them. We have enough cry babies already.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:34 pmIt's not just Florida. Check out this site, if you can stomach a bunch of "Fundie BS". It's good for some laughs when I'm in the right mood.
http://www.fstdt.com/default.aspx
February 19th, 2008 at 6:35 pmHey StratRat....
your link on your name doesn't work............72 Gibson Les Paul is my fun.....I do have an old Fender Twin amp though......
February 19th, 2008 at 6:41 pmLike many commenters here, when I was a child in Catholic school, I was taught evolution and it was somehow reconciled in the minds of us students. (Although some of us had fun challenging the nuns on some of their explanations.)
February 19th, 2008 at 6:42 pmAs an adult having abandoned all religion, I can understand how some can compartmentalize their religion and science and find reconciliation, and most thinking people do so.
There is something terribly lacking in the thought processes of those who insist that their rationale should be taught.
"Eventually the citizens of Florida will be too stupid to figure out how to use a doorknob and then the cats and dogs will take over."
You mean the oranges and the oranges, right?
February 19th, 2008 at 6:42 pmComment by Fred — February 19, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
Eeks! Will I be accused of plagiarizing now? I didn't even know of that quote.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:44 pmI’m really surprised no one brought this point up yet, but here it goes.
Evolution is both FACT and THEORY. The FACT is that organisms do change over time; that is indisputable amongst biologists and other people who follow science.. The THEORY part is the mechanism of change.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Florida’s court and the creationist teams have sure fudged up with this ruling.
Comment by pdoggeth
This is a really good point......evolution is easy to prove with animals that breed quickly.....tse tse flies for example. We can prove it by what we have done with livestock.
Herford cattle had horns forever.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:46 pmPolled herfords are cattle that don't have horns. It is done by breeding herfords that through a mutation did not have horns with other herfords with the same mutation.......eventual outcome.....polled herfords which are hornless herfords with the rare exception.....
Anybody ever seen a rightwing legislator in Florida. I live here, they look like overweight oragutans. Sorry to oragutans.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:47 pmThey probably haven
't evolved yet.
“after reading all the material†on evolution, he has a “conviction†that one of the oranges “is the first cousin of somebody’s pet cat†and the other, “the parent of somebody’s pet dog.â€
HUH? Is that guy retarded?
I really don't have a problem with the board calling evolution a 'theory'. They are calling it exactly what it is. If anyone were to watch the recent debate in Kansas over evolution would then know that scientists in that conversation say that a theory is the most vetted and proven process in proving the subject at hand. Joke's on them. HA HA.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:48 pmScience is so last millennium.
Fairy tales and make believe land are the new thing, baby.
Just show the kids commercials all day, that's what the market demands!
February 19th, 2008 at 6:48 pmThe devolution of a country or society can often be marked by a large part of the population giving up a thirst for knowledge and the acceptance of mythology or cult like religions.
We now have a society in which the Republican party rejoices in its ignorance and espouses a staunch anti-intellectualism. We hear diatribes against ivy league education and learned experts. We have a president who was elected in large part because he could play the part of a backwards cowboy who spouted malapropisms and excelled at being inarticulate.
However, when we see the elite of the conservative movement, we see those who did indeed graduate from the ivy league, went to work for conservative think tanks, white shoe law firms, stuffy old Wall Street and the Fortune 500.
I honestly believe that the Republican elite want to see an electorate that is ignorant, faithful (to a very backwards view of religion which emphasizes obedience to authority and that those who are superior in position or wealth were placed there by God), and full of self-loathing (willing to accept their lot in life as being their due because they were not good enough to deserve better.) We see city and state governments as well as many corporations adopting the Character Program that is based upon this conservative view.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:49 pmEeks! Will I be accused of plagiarizing now? I didn’t even know of that quote.
Comment by Marie
I don't think Frank will mind.........pretty similar though don't you agree?
February 19th, 2008 at 6:50 pmevolution is easy to prove with animals that breed quickly…
Comment by Fred — February 19, 2008 @ 6:46 pm
Unfortunately, it is also easy to prove with Drug Resistant Germs as well.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:51 pmEveryone please realize that this decision is a step in the right direction for Florida. It requires that evolution be taught for in all schools. Prior to this some schools did not teach evolution. Hopefully, qualified teachers will impart to their students an understanding of a scientific theory while not having to teach ID beside it.
Having graduated from a Maryland high school and a Florida University I can attest to the dificulities Florida high school graduates had understanding 1st semester biology.
Florida is a primary example why there needs to be national educational standards and a seperation between church and state.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:54 pmMy states Superintendant of Schools actually tried to have evolution removed from textbooks. She wound up having stickers put on all science textbooks that basically said, evolution is a theory, not a fact. Jeez. So I wrote a little news satire on the subject:
GEORGIA BANS EVOLUTION, CLAIMING ‘IT’S GONE FAR ENOUGH’
ATLANTA, Georgia
Nearly eighty years after the so-called Scopes Monkey Trial mandated the teaching of Darwin’s theory of evolution in America’s public schools, evolution itself has been banned from the state of Georgia.
Superintendent of Schools Kathy Cox reportedly plans to restructure the Georgia school system, which was recently ranked #50 in the nation in terms of quality of education, after the Middle Eastern madrassas, religious schools that indoctrinate young Muslims regarding Islamic jihad, or holy war.
Ironically, Third World countries like Pakistan are moving rapidly to modernize the madrassas even as Georgia seems to be taking a huge step in the other direction.
“Anybody who don’t like it can move some place they think ain’t so backward,†Cox suggested. “Like Ethiopia, or Afghanistan. Or Alabama.â€
“Evolution has gone far enough,†Cox concluded. “It needs to be stopped, and Georgia is just the place to stop it.â€
http://newsprism.wordpress.com
February 19th, 2008 at 6:54 pmGeneral public - guess=theory
Scientific community - guess=hypothesis
One designs experiments to gather data about the hypothesis. When enough data is gathered supporting the hypothesis, agreement may be reached in the scientific community to call it a theory.
If new evidence is later presented that contradicts a theory and it's reproducible, said theory is discarded or modified to reflect the new data.
Why the hell didn't School House Rock do an episode on the scientific theory? We'd be so much better off...
February 19th, 2008 at 6:55 pmWhat's really funny in a sad sort of way is this guy is actually looking at his notes while spewing this nonsense. Image, if you will, some bumpkin "studies" evolution over the weekend and comes up with his own convoluted theory and has NOTES. God, is this hilarious or what?
February 19th, 2008 at 6:56 pmComment by Saint Augustine — February 19, 2008 @ 6:54 pm
Flagler?
February 19th, 2008 at 6:58 pm"orange" rhymes with nothing. Apparently it doesn't reason with anything, either.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:01 pmSo I am assuming that the citrus industry has no interest in selective breeding nor any form of genetic manipulation of their signature crops? Should not the creator(s) have created the perfect form of the fruit?
February 19th, 2008 at 7:01 pmIntelligence in Republicans is also a "Theory". Or more like a phantasy.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:02 pmComment by dbadass
you must pray for it dbadass.......then if it happens it is the answer to your prayer......nothing more.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:03 pm... a whole generation of dummies coming our way...
and they've been breeding...
i fear the 20's...
February 19th, 2008 at 7:04 pmTheory what the heck. Maybe hypothesis, but without data collection, testing, documentation, and finally peer review it cannot be theory. Haven't these folks ever heard of the scientific method. Kudos to the GOP for adopting this line of reasoning though. The more they spout this nonsense the more Americans will run away from that party.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:04 pmFolks like that Floridian (Orange Man) prove the old adage that Stupidity is superior to the speed of light. Orange Man proudly proves that, unlike the speed of light, Stupidity has No limit.
Impeach Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution.
PS,
February 19th, 2008 at 7:04 pmI'm another Catholic and learned the concept in Catholic school. Faith will get you to Heaven, however its Doubt that gets you an education.
note: 95 is sarcasm.......
February 19th, 2008 at 7:05 pma whole generation of dummies coming our way…
Comment by katy — February 19, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
Don't sweat it. The immigrants they are so scared off will cover the intellectual deficeit
February 19th, 2008 at 7:06 pmIn 97 I was referring intelligent design/clock maker. Sorry for the confusion.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:06 pmThere has got to be something in the drinking water down there--these people aren't playing with a full deck.
Seeing that it is in the Panhandle why are we surprised--it's the home of Joe "when I was in Congress" Scarborough.
I find these people rather pathetic and limited. Safe and secure in their own little "fundie" worlds.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:07 pmyou must pray for it dbadass…….then if it happens it is the answer to your prayer……nothing more.
Comment by Fred — February 19, 2008 @ 7:03 pm
Inferior Creators piss me off!
February 19th, 2008 at 7:08 pmFlagler?
Comment by dbadass — February 19, 2008 @ 6:58
UNF Transporation and Logistics
February 19th, 2008 at 7:08 pmThe right wing people have the ability to 'time warp'... we are going back centuries!
February 19th, 2008 at 7:09 pmSo I am assuming that the citrus industry has no interest in selective breeding nor any form of genetic manipulation of their signature crops? Should not the creator(s) have created the perfect form of the fruit?
Comment by dbadass — February 19, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
Selective breeding precedes Darwin by centuries. All it required was observation, not the theory of evolution.
Most of science, including biology, is this way. All that is required is observation. A current, important question for the theory is whether or not it can deliver what is observed – irreducible complexity.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:13 pmWhen there comes no rhyme or reason
February 19th, 2008 at 7:16 pmMan forsakes his God, a treason-
He's given us to feel and know
And where in us will wisdom grow?
I guess the medical school the University of Central Florida is building won't have many graduates from Florida.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pmWhat a bunch of morons.
Selective breeding precedes Darwin by centuries. All it required was observation, not the theory of evolution.
Comment by bitblt
are you saying that selective breeding does not demonstrate evolution in action?
February 19th, 2008 at 7:19 pm“only 22 percent want public schools to teach an evolution-only curriculum, while 50 percent want only faith-based theories such as creationism or intelligent design.â€
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/22/opinion/polls/main657083.shtml
Poll at this link indicates that only 13% of the U.S. believes "Humans
evolved, God did not guide process."
Apparently the Darwinists having some difficulty teach their theory since so few are convinced.
bitblt thinks the theory, with its short comings, should be taught. Teaching the theory with the questions will make the theory better.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:19 pmare you saying that selective breeding does not demonstrate evolution in action?
Comment by Fred — February 19, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
Believe this demonstrates what is called microevolution. bitblt is not aware that anyone has used selective breeding to create a new species.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:20 pmBelieve this demonstrates what is called microevolution. bitblt is not aware that anyone has used selective breeding to create a new species.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:20 pm
Creationists have to concede that species evolve and that selective breeding works because it's so bleeding obvious. Since macroevolution requires huge spans of time to create new species, they simply pretend it can't be proven. This is especially helpful when you maintain the Earth to be 6,000 years old; even the most diehard of evolutionists has never pretended you can create a new species in 6,000 years.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:24 pmI guess the medical school the University of Central Florida is building won’t have many graduates from Florida.
What a bunch of morons.
Comment by dietrich — February 19, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
What does evolution have to do with medical school?
You are talking about the profession that's been washing its hands for only about 150 years. Thereby saving more people that all the surgeons saved in the last 4000 years.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:25 pmThis country is DEvolving.
Comment by mary — February 19, 2008 @ 5:36 pm
Question: Are We Not Men?
Answer: We Are Christian Coalitionists!
February 19th, 2008 at 7:25 pmI See Nothing!
"I’m a bit like an editor, trying to find a spelling mistake inside a document larger than four complete sets of Encyclopedia Britanica.
Nobody I know in my profession believes it [genetic code] evolved. It was engineered by ‘genius beyond genius,’ and such information could not have been written any other way.
Creation design is like an elephant in the living room. It moves around, takes up an enormous amount of space, loudly trumpets, bumps into us, knocks things over, eats a ton of hay, and smells like an elephant. And yet we have to swear it isn’t there!"
A molecular biologist, (speaking on condition of anonymity) who identifies genetic controls for diseases. “The Biologist,†interviewed by George Caylor, The Ledger, Lynchburg, Virginia. Feb. 17, 2000.
http://www.evolutionisdead.com/quotes.php?QID=374&keyword=genius
February 19th, 2008 at 7:30 pmI can solve this problem. I don't have kids in school any longer here in Florida so next year when it's time to pay my property taxes, I'll deduct the amount that is supposed to go to education and pay the rest.
Why in the hell should I be forced to pay for someone's beliefs that I don't believe in?
February 19th, 2008 at 7:31 pmGood.
Comment by Frank M — February 19, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
Idiot
February 19th, 2008 at 7:33 pmMost of science, including biology, is this way. All that is required is observation. A current, important question for the theory is whether or not it can deliver what is observed – irreducible complexity.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:13 pm
You are a complete idiot. Irreducible complexity has been shot down as another attempt to give credibility to ID. Try these on for size:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/wm/3416_08_056.html
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html
February 19th, 2008 at 7:34 pmWhat is it with the South and their support for this sort of insane crap? They love Phuckabee, who thinks the world is 6000 years old, the Creationist Museum, and now this...what is wrong with these people, are they just so inbreed that they are mentally inferior, or is it the water, is it that they all just reinforce poor thinking processes, what is it? I just can't for the life of me reason why anyone would think this way.
Glad I don't live in the south.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:35 pmWe live in Colorado and took our kids to the Morrison uprise, to view dinosaur tracks when they were young. Didn't take much time for them to see that this was real old stuff. When our local pastor's wife invited them to the Creationist tour interpretation of the site, they politely-and then later laughingly declined. My son's response was:
"I don't think anyone put that there as a joke. And I don't think God would find it funny".
But they both thought it was way cool, and both plan on being scientists. "and the children will...."
February 19th, 2008 at 7:35 pmIrreducible complexity has been shot down as another attempt to give credibility to ID. Try these on for size:
http://www.pbs.org/ wgbh/ nova/ programs/ ht/ wm/ 3416_08_056.html
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html
Comment by Saint Augustine — February 19, 2008 @ 7:34 pm
Stay tuned! You're going to get to see the birth of a new science - Intelligent Design.
Theory of evolution is really short in explaning many things. Troube is the theory is not making much progress.
Science will correct the "gaps" in the theory and in the end there will be a better theory.
http://www.evolutionnews.org/
Try finding the list of scientists and engineers who believe theory is inadequate to describe what is observed.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:42 pmWhen I was younger I used to think things would get better because the old fossils who believed this type of crap were dying out. That people were getting smarter.
Now that I approach 60, I don't have such optimism anymore.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:43 pm99% of people can't do calculus either, bitblt - doesn't mean anything about the validity or accuracy of calculus.
your wild-eyed believer enthusiasm isn't going to carry the day, either.
a mis-understanding of science is the problem of the party who misunderstands it, not a problem science has.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:52 pmWhy does bitbit speak like droid? badassthink droid made by man and not imagined cloud spirit
February 19th, 2008 at 7:54 pmWhen Creationists admit that we humans are mammals, that we procreate like mammals, form societies to support eachother, that sex is good for that reason, as it for most species on Earth, then they may begin to leave aside the penultimate starting point of "faith" that we are above being soiled by some grand plan that their god had in mind for every other species ever created. But they never will, and now try to ascribe it to "reason".
February 19th, 2008 at 7:56 pm...birth of a new science - Intelligent Design.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
This is an oxymoron.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:58 pm"Evolution will be taught as “the Scientific Theory of Evolution""
Yea! Now if they would just start teaching kids the definition of the term scientific theory so they know how real and definitive the facts and conclusions are that make up the theory.
Many anti-evolution folks get the term scientific theory confused with the normal everyday use of the term which is more like hypothesis. Funny that you don't often hear that the theory of gravity or music theory, etc. are just theories and therefore should be given equal weight or more with the alternative theories for those subjects.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pm…birth of a new science - Intelligent Design.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
Please define "science"? Intelligent design and cold fusion shall dance together in the trash can of history
February 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pmThis is HYSTERICAL. Glad my kids get to compete with the FLA and KAN and other idiot states for college scholarships.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pmHere's a thorough debunking of "intelligent design". Send the link to Fundies and watch them LIE!
http://www.talkorigins.org/
February 19th, 2008 at 8:03 pmAs long as we teach what a Scientific theory is this should be no problem, also include a few other theories such as gravity and plate tectonics
February 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pmTry finding the list of scientists and engineers who believe theory is inadequate to describe what is observed.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
Once again you prove your own stupidity by linking to the much discrideted Discovery Institute.
The Discovery Institute is a think tank based in Seattle, Washington, best known for its advocacy of intelligent design and its Teach the Controversy campaign to teach creationist anti-evolution beliefs in United States public high school science courses. A federal court, along with the majority of scientific organizations, including the American Association for the Advancement of Science, say the Institute has manufactured the controversy they want to teach by promoting a false perception that evolution is "a theory in crisis" by incorrectly claiming that it is the subject of wide controversy and debate within the scientific community. A federal court recently ruled that the Discovery Institute pursues "demonstrably religious, cultural, and legal missions", and the institute's manifesto, the Wedge strategy, describes a religious goal: to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Institute
February 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pmI am a history educator, not a scientist. It bothers me that science teachers fail to explain what "theory" means to scientists. I explain to my students that in science a theory is not some idle speculation or but a hypothesis which has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Many of the theories, like the heliocentric theory of the universe, the germ theory of disease, and the theory of evolution based on natural selection are almost universally accepted by scientists.
Science teachers simply refuse to deal with the issue of psuedo-science.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pmAt a public hearing, one Florida Panhandle resident held up two oranges and mockingly said that “after reading all the material†on evolution, he has a “conviction†that one of the oranges “is the first cousin of somebody’s pet cat†and the other, “the parent of somebody’s pet dog.â€
His brain is the first cousin of a turnip. Better proof of evolution could not be had.
Cheers,
February 19th, 2008 at 8:05 pmhistoryguy doesn't know any of the many scienceguys that I teach with. They all deal with this issue all the time. I am quessing some sort of odd social studies magnet school that was so worried about social studies that they ran out of money by the time the science teachers were hired.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:08 pmStill each's own opinions and experiences are their own.
Stay tuned! You’re going to get to see the birth of a new science - Intelligent Design.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
Intelligent Design is philosophy. It's not science.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:21 pmbitbit thinks it sufficient to claim "evolutionary theory has a lot of holes" without describing how "Intelligent Design" conforms to Scientific Theory.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:35 pmIntelligent Design is philosophy. It’s not science.
Comment by toasterhead — February 19, 2008 @ 8:21 pm
Its an attempt to drive a wedge into evolution, to create a crack, so creationists can begin poisoning true science and give credence to their crackpot beliefs. It is pure bullcrap, not a philosophy, rather a planned attack against science.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:36 pmI hope dbadass is right and my experience is not normal. I teach in Kansas and our science teachers might be intimidated. We certainly have many science teachers in the state who take this on, but many simple ignore or downplay evolution
February 19th, 2008 at 8:37 pmIntelligent Design is philosophy. It’s not science.
Comment by toasterhead — February 19, 2008 @ 8:21 pm
It is evil put forth by evil people.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:37 pmIts an attempt to drive a wedge into evolution, to create a crack, so creationists can begin poisoning true science and give credence to their crackpot beliefs. It is pure bullcrap, not a philosophy, rather a planned attack against science.
Comment by Saint Augustine — February 19, 2008 @ 8:36 pm
That too.
And it's the product of a very convenient marriage between the evangelical industry and the oil industry and the neoconservative industry to attack science itself. It's much easier to make people believe global warming is a myth if you've already worked to systematically undermine belief in science.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:47 pmComment by historyguy — February 19, 2008 @ 8:37 pm
My location requires those in your discipline to be forced into walking a tough line so as to not upset an out of date concept of colonial NE. Same issue different discipline. I wouldn't fault your science teachers nor my social science teachers. They have morgages, tuitions, and the like. Parents have to pay more attention to their local boards. I'll buy a round for historyguy and the rest of the educators that have to put up with this sort of oddness.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:50 pmIf one checks out some Fundie sites (I find it distasteful, yet, I like to "know my enemies") one will discover many "teachers" who willfully deny evolution. I have even seen people propose removing the "offensive" pages from textbooks.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:57 pmPeter, I love your posts, but c'mon man, you used polysyllabic words! And one even had (GASP) SIX, count them SIX(!!!) syllables!
You'll never get through to any riechwingers doing that. If it's not My Pet Goat (or USA Today) reading level, they're done.
Sad, sad, sad statement to our level of thought ability. Listening to this bonehead with the oranges gave me more incentive to move to another country. My country is sooooooooooooo on the wrong track.
February 19th, 2008 at 9:00 pmI’m another Catholic and learned the concept in Catholic school.
me too!
Faith will get you to Heaven,
debatable...
however its Doubt that gets you an education.
Comment by Leporello — February 19, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
i love that part...
February 19th, 2008 at 9:25 pmMe no tawk dum. Tha stoopid burns my brane.
February 19th, 2008 at 9:26 pmGravity? What gravity? Maybe we all just have really sticky feet.
February 19th, 2008 at 9:56 pmhttp://www.newsprism.com
Most of science, including biology, is this way. All that is required is observation. A current, important question for the theory is whether or not it can deliver what is observed – irreducible complexity.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:13 pm
Yeah but it's kind of hard to observe a quark without a particle accelerator isn't it. Tell me how you do it bitbit.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:44 pmBelieve this demonstrates what is called microevolution. bitblt is not aware that anyone has used selective breeding to create a new species.
Comment by bitblt — February 19, 2008 @ 7:20 pm
Your IGNORANCE doesn't change the FACTS - TARD!!! ROTFL you ANTI-SCIENCE IDIOTS are HYSTERICAL! You BELIEVE your IGNORANCE of a topic is a FACTUAL BASIS for an OPINION!!! And the EARTH IS FLAT - MORON!!! ;)
February 19th, 2008 at 10:49 pmIntelligent Design is philosophy. It’s not science.
Comment by toasterhead — February 19, 2008 @ 8:21 pm
Now you're pissing off the philosophers. Good thing they're dead.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:50 pmOff topic:
Obama wins Wisonsin. Hillary collects more votes than the Republicans combined. Check this link for spin free numbers. Just click on any state.
http://www.pbs.org/ newshour/ vote2008/ primaries/ states/
February 19th, 2008 at 10:55 pmFor those that are interested in seeing the NUMEROUS speciation examples, see here... Poor bullsh*tbullsh*t is now PROVEN to be a complete MORON!!
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
February 19th, 2008 at 11:01 pmComment by republicans hate facts — February 19, 2008 @ 11:01 pm
I'm with you, RHF. Talk Origins is a wonderful site. Simple explanations for simple doubters and technical descriptions for the rabidly inquisitive.
February 19th, 2008 at 11:06 pmOne simple question: If there's no such thing as evolution...WHY AREN'T THERE ANY CAVEMEN???
February 19th, 2008 at 11:51 pmum... i was married to one...
February 19th, 2008 at 11:54 pmdon't tell ME there are no more cavemen...
sorry dan... just a joke...
February 20th, 2008 at 12:07 amWHY AREN’T THERE ANY CAVEMEN???
Comment by Big Dan — February 19, 2008 @ 11:51 pm
I call them "trolls".
February 20th, 2008 at 12:29 amOne simple question: If there’s no such thing as evolution…WHY AREN’T THERE ANY CAVEMEN???
Comment by Big Dan — February 19, 2008 @ 11:51 pm
They died out when the Golgafrinchans landed. Duh!
February 20th, 2008 at 12:38 amwhoa nelly!!! - who is this orange guy??!!?? - the only redeeming part in that clip is that the people listening to him looked just as bewildered as i was!!!
February 20th, 2008 at 12:44 ami wasn't educated in the united states but did go to a catholic high school where we were taught evolution as part of our final year biology curriculum....by a priest!!! - he didn't have a problem with it and never once interjected what he was teaching us with what the bible says....what is it with the uproar with teaching evolution in schools? - i just don't get why certain people in america get so worked up about this.
- i just don’t get why certain people in america get so worked up about this.
Comment by shaun — February 20, 2008 @ 12:44 am
One word: FEAR. They can't manage without God looking out for them, so, anything which makes them question God must be denied.
February 20th, 2008 at 12:48 amThis guys holding his oranges at the same time Cindy McCain is bashing Michelle Obama for saying for the first time she is "really" proud of America. How can you be proud of a country that has idiots like this being listened to by school boards and has any school in the country arguing against teaching evolution. Unbelievable.
February 20th, 2008 at 1:03 am#161Comment by Shayne — February 20, 2008 @ 1:03 am
good call shayne - and the orange guy really lost me when he started talking about the truck full of turkeys smashing into another truck at an intersection with no lights or signs - WTF???!!??? - seems that that the type of people that knock evolution are the least evolved among us.
February 20th, 2008 at 1:15 amseems that that the type of people that knock evolution are the least evolved among us.
Comment by shaun — February 20, 2008 @ 1:15 am
Well, to be fair, it's hard to evolve when one thinks the "Flintstones" is a documentary.
February 20th, 2008 at 1:24 am"Well, to be fair, it’s hard to evolve when one thinks the “Flintstones†is a documentary."
Lewis Black I presume. Good stuff.
Cheers
February 20th, 2008 at 2:19 amI really do not care what another human being chooses to beleive. As long as two rules are observed:
1) I have the right to disagree
2) I have the right to my own opinion.
I will gladly discuss any topic and listen to others. As long as they are rational, logical and, above all else, respectful.
What happened to the American ideal that
February 20th, 2008 at 4:58 am"I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it"!
I really do not care what another human being chooses to beleive. As long as two rules are observed:
1) I have the right to disagree
2) I have the right to my own opinion.
I will gladly discuss any topic and listen to others. As long as they are rational, logical and, above all else, respectful.
What happened to the American ideal that
“I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will fight to the death for your right to say itâ€!
Comment by 08ingchange — February 20, 2008 @ 4:58 am
These principles are great for soccial issues, but are used by Republicans as a tool to fight against demonstrable reality based in political interests. Reality hasn't "two sides". For example, gravity exists. If you fall off a cliff, and don't have a parachute or flying machine, you can't have a second opinion and fly instead. Willing to discuss if gravity really exists is beyond discussion. And "Intelligent Desing" hasn't, by far, so many facts (if any) in its side as Evolution.
February 20th, 2008 at 5:21 amI am not arguing for the validity if the IT claim, merely that they have a right to beleive it. It's their choice, however ill informe (see above Orange Man. Graduate of Syracuse? Me thinks not).
February 20th, 2008 at 5:36 amI will draw the line at anyone telling me, or mine, what I should or should not beleive in. Let the schools teach all schools of thought and let us decide for ourselves. Not possible, I know, but wouldn't it be nice to be treated like we actually have a brain, do not bleat and will not follow blindly.....
oops!
About those oranges......
Of course, gravity being what it is, and cliffs being what they are, let's get Bushco and Congress and try to refute this whole gravity theory. One push each ought to do it.....
February 20th, 2008 at 5:40 amCould it be that the god is pushing us down and gravity really doesn't exist? Or perhaps the devil is holding the repubes down?
Call Fox News, we have a debate!
I beleive that Gary Larson said it best (IMO, naturally)
And I paraphrase....
You have got to make the choice, Dude... Is it the touchy, feel good god of the new testament, or is it that Dirty Harry, smite first, ask questions later kind of old testament god?
Personally, I think extremists from both sides could use a little of both.... Kind of a biblical tough love, as it were
February 20th, 2008 at 6:04 amThis reminds me of what Thomas Paine wrote at the beginning of Part 2 of The Age of Reason
"It has often been said, that anything may be proved from the Bible, but before anything can be admitted as proved by the Bible, the Bible itself must be proved to be true; for if the Bible be not true, or the truth of it be doubtful, it ceases to have authority, and cannot be admitted as proof of anything.
It has been the practice of all Christian commentators on the Bible, and of all Christian priests and preachers, to impose the Bible on the world as a mass of truth and as the word of God; they have disputed and wrangled, and anathematized each other about the supposed meaning of particular parts and passages therein; one has said and insisted that such a passage meant such a thing; another that it meant directly the contrary; and a third, that it meant neither one nor the other, but something different from both; and this they call understanding the Bible."
February 20th, 2008 at 6:50 ama mis-understanding of science is the problem of the party who misunderstands it, not a problem science has.
Comment by tombaker — February 19, 2008 @ 7:52 pm
I disagree. I think science needs to do a much better job of self-promotion. We need to use the same tools of mass media and communication that the religious Taliban has been using. Science is, unfortunately, David to the evangelical industry's Goliath. Science has academia and Ira Flatow on its side. The evangelical industry is in bed with politicians, big business, and the neocon think tanks, all of whom have reasons to suppress science. It hurts their bottom line.
We need to take the tactic that the evangelicals have been using for years - self-defense: Science is under attack.
It's not a fabrication or distortion - science is under attack by the forces of unreason. Science is under attack by the global warming deniers and the intelligent designers and the White House vetters. Let's keep pushing this message until it sinks in.
February 20th, 2008 at 7:18 am#14 - "Payback will be pretty vicious, though, as your party gets decimated and buried in the next few cycles." Comment by Lefty Patriot — February 19, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
LP, "decimated" is reduced by 10%. I think the Republic party will be eviscerated (organs removed) and be nothing but a shodow of its former self in 2009.
I just wish the Democrats would grow a spine and treat teh Republicans the same way the Republicans treated the Dems when they held the Majority. Payback would be such sweet justice!
Could you imagine the complaints by Republics is the Democrat held voting on a bill for hours after the maximum time allowed as they twisted arms to get the votes they needed?
February 20th, 2008 at 7:57 amembarrassed Floridian here... this is ridiculous... like George Carlin says, adding extra words to something does not necessarily change its meaning... we ought to keep the "public" in public schools... religious schools can teach whatever crap they like!
February 20th, 2008 at 9:26 amThe state of Florida is just a theory. In reality it is the largest insane assylum ever assembled. As I type this, our local republican politicians are again spending millions of tax dollars to dump sand on the beach in a futal attempt to stop the ocean from eroding millionaire's beachside properties. They have done this 3 or 4 times in the last few years, because they have a theory that if they repeatedly dump sand on the beach for the Atlantic ocean to wash away, it will eventually "give up" and stop making waves.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:46 amYes, well this testimony seems to fantsize about things in the present, in order to understand the past! The implication of his 'oranges preference', over 'teachers apples', inappropriately indicate something akin to the apes battling the (hairless) pigs! His is bad doctrine! But let's be real; Paine wrote HIS good stuff in Common Sense: "...inconsistency is too glaring not to be seen; the absurdity too great not to be laughed at; and such as could only have been made by those, whose understandings were darkened by the narrow and crabby spirit of a despairing political party; for ye are not to be considered as the whole body of...(a passive posture)...but only as a factional and fractional part thereof."
February 20th, 2008 at 10:12 amAs a secular progressive myself and someone who has been trained in the biological sciences, I have some news for many of you posting on this topic. If you attend any modern secular university and take a course on evolution you will find that it is taught as the "Theory of Evolution". A theory is to a fact as a theorem is to an axiom in mathematics. A theorem has not been backed up by a mathematical proof, an axiom has been proven indisputably. A theorem is still useful in math because all evidence points to it's likelihood to being true. In just this way all evidence points to the validity of the theory of evolution. What makes science such a powerful tool is the requirement for scrupulous honesty regarding conclusions such as the inability to prove certain assumptions.
February 20th, 2008 at 10:51 amTeaching evolution as a scientific theory is correct technically even if you find it politically unsavory.
Creationism does not rise to this level and should be relegated to religious discussions not taught in science classes.
The state of Florida is just a theory. In reality it is the largest insane asylum ever assembled. As I type this, our local republican politicians are again spending millions of tax dollars to dump sand on the beach in a futile attempt to stop the ocean from eroding millionaire’s beachside properties. They have done this 3 or 4 times in the last few years, because they have a theory that if they repeatedly dump sand on the beach for the Atlantic ocean to wash away, it will eventually “give up†and stop making waves.
February 20th, 2008 at 12:07 pmUnfortunately, it is also easy to prove with Drug Resistant Germs as well.
Comment by Badger — February 19, 2008 @ 6:51 pm
Florida is full of Fact Resistant Germs.
February 20th, 2008 at 12:13 pm"Today, Florida’s Board of Education voted 4-3 to change standards for teaching science in Florida’s public schools."
4 out of 7 floridians are stoopid!
February 20th, 2008 at 12:15 pmOne thing to remember, Jeb Bush is the head CHIMP in charge of FL.He is in command of all of this ,it is his agenda.He is learning alot from the head of BUSHCO.
As i recall are founding fathers wanted the seperation of church and state.I forgot that most REICH WINGERS scraped the Constitution in favor of heir own laws and regulations that they makeup as they go.
February 20th, 2008 at 12:16 pmmust see:
Conservapedia Page of the Day
Conservapedia’s entry for Scopes Trial starts off harmlessly enough:
February 20th, 2008 at 1:02 pm[…]
http://agitprop.typepad.com/ agitprop/ 2008/ 02/ conservapedia-1.html
What good is the theory of evolution?
February 20th, 2008 at 2:43 pmWhat good is the theory of evolution?
Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
It’s a plausible explanation for how we came to be.
February 20th, 2008 at 3:30 pmIntelligent design is not plausible. It explains NOTHING!
One thing to remember, Jeb Bush is the head CHIMP in charge of FL.He is in command of all of this ,it is his agenda.He is learning alot from the head of BUSHCO.
Comment by christopher wiwi — February 20, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
Floridians seem to be under the impression that Charlie Crist is in charge. ;)
February 20th, 2008 at 3:32 pmWhat makes science such a powerful tool is the requirement for scrupulous honesty regarding conclusions such as the inability to prove certain assumptions.
Teaching evolution as a scientific theory is correct technically even if you find it politically unsavory.
Comment by Marauder — February 20, 2008 @ 10:51 am
Are you some kind of trouble maker? ;)
February 20th, 2008 at 3:35 pmI was working the polls yesterday and didn't get a chance to see this one until just now.
If it is so important to point out to Floridian children that evolution is a theory (which technically is true), I think Florida should teach what constitutes a theory. Then proceed to explain "intelligent design" or "creationism" and point out that those are religious beliefs with no basis in fact or science. Don't forget to point out other crazy theories such as gravity or The Atomic Theory. All in all, lessons on evolution can be used to teach school children several good lessons.
February 20th, 2008 at 4:31 pmIf it is so important to point out to Floridian children that evolution is a theory (which technically is true), I think Florida should teach what constitutes a theory. Then proceed to explain “intelligent design†or “creationism†and point out that those are religious beliefs with no basis in fact or science. Don’t forget to point out other crazy theories such as gravity or The Atomic Theory. All in all, lessons on evolution can be used to teach school children several good lessons.
Comment by Bubs — February 20, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
First Marauder and now you? You people must stop deviating from the prog line. You cannot say that evolution hasn't been proven and you cannot mention intelligent design in a classroom. You can't have kids discussing God willy nilly. Children must be protected from hearing about God at all costs. Please, get with the program! ;)
February 20th, 2008 at 4:51 pm. Then proceed to explain “intelligent design†or “creationism†and point out that those are religious beliefs with no basis in fact or science. Don’t forget to point out other crazy theories such as gravity or The Atomic Theory. All in all, lessons on evolution can be used to teach school children several good lessons.
Comment by Bubs — February 20, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
The Genesis account of creation is a record. However, accepting the veracity of Genesis is indeed a religious belief.
Furthermore, making estimates from the CIA Factbook using World Religions: Christians 33.32%, would mean that about 2.0 B people know about the creation account in Genesis.
Jesus Christ ( a title not a name) endorses this account in Matthew 19. Many Christians will know this.
For many Christians the book of Genesis is filled with meaning and inspiration, because it certainly establishes a reason for the relationship between God and people and a reason for life. God, the Creator, is also noted to have considerable power.
In contrast, the theory of evolution is filled with meaninglessness. The theory isn’t able to say that life is better that death much less complexity is better that simplicity. The theory says all existence is a cosmic fluke.
Just try and get justice out of the theory of evolution. In contrast, the Bible is filled with the idea and desire for justice.
February 20th, 2008 at 4:58 pmYeah, and some people's "religious convictions" led to the mass slaughter of Native Americans and the wholesale theft of the Americas, and others lead to suicide bombings in the Middle East.
I'm getting pretty tired of being forced to deal with other people's religious convictions, particularly when it comes to them proselytizing to, and dumbing down, our children.
February 20th, 2008 at 5:38 pmupright_left, you can't prove that the theory of evolution is true, nor can you prove that the theory of gravity or the atomic theory is true. It doesn't make it any less true or make alternative theories any less valid but that doesn't mean that I can say that evolution is proven. I'm not going to lie about science because there are fools out there who choose to pretend that it is false.
I should have perhaps been a little clearer. I don't actually want ID or creationism taught, I'd rather keep schools religion free. My assumption (perhaps incorrect) was that Florida schools were mentioning these crackpot theories already. If that is, unfortunately, what is going on, teachers should point out the difference between these mythologies and actual theories.
February 20th, 2008 at 10:49 pmbitblt,
Why does the theory of evolution need to give us justice or tell us that death is better than life? Neither does the theory of gravity, that does not make it any less true. It also does not make the theory any less important. Your particular mythology has no more importance to people outside your faith than great pieces of literature have to me to explain the importance of life or the concept of justice.
February 20th, 2008 at 10:58 pmbitbit: The Genesis account of creation is a story supported by zero verifiable evidence. It is even contradicted by other creation stories in the bible.
In contrast, the theory of evolution is a scientific hypothesis supported by vast amounts of evidence. The theory of evolution says that all life evolved from previous life. No fluke. Life comes from life not a cosmic boogie man. It is really quite beautiful.
Science is not about justice. Science is about finding the truth based on the best evidence available. If new evidence emerges scientific truth is adjusted to accommodate the new evidence. Unlike the bible which supposedly never changes (except when the emperor or king decides to change it), science is a growing and changing enterprise. Alive, like us, not static and dead like that dusty old book of stories.
The bible is a story about an insecure vengeful god who seemingly enjoys tormenting his flawed creations just because they are flawed or because they don't stroke his fragile ego the way he likes.
There was a time when humanity needed this kind of childish story but as we have evolved (some of us) over time we have learned to put aside these crutches and find our true place in the universe with the help of the scientific method - the most powerful tool of discovery yet known to man.
Can you see the difference? Don't be afraid. The cosmic boogie man is not going to smite you.
February 20th, 2008 at 11:05 pmThe Genesis account of creation is a record. However, accepting the veracity of Genesis is indeed a religious belief. Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
A RECORD? No it's a DEBUNKED MYTH!! ROTFL!!!
Furthermore, making estimates from the CIA Factbook using World Religions: Christians 33.32%, would mean that about 2.0 B people know about the creation account in Genesis. Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
And a huge number also know that Zeus lives on mount olympus, doesn't make it true though - TARD!
Jesus Christ ( a title not a name) endorses this account in Matthew 19. Many Christians will know this. Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Another reason to PROVE he was a MAN and not a GOD!! ROTFL!!
For many Christians the book of Genesis is filled with meaning and inspiration, because it certainly establishes a reason for the relationship between God and people and a reason for life. God, the Creator, is also noted to have considerable power. Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
It's filled with a STORY about a FLIGHT from a VALLEY in northern Turkey into what's now IRAQ - TARD!
In contrast, the theory of evolution is filled with meaninglessness. The theory isn’t able to say that life is better that death much less complexity is better that simplicity. The theory says all existence is a cosmic fluke. Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Actually it's FILLED with CONCRETE SCIENCE, including ICE RINGS that are MILLION YEARS OLD, not 8000 - MORON!
Just try and get justice out of the theory of evolution. In contrast, the Bible is filled with the idea and desire for justice.
Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
ROTFL!! JUSTICE? You mean like saying SLAVERY is OK? And that DISEASE comes from SIN and not MICROBES? ROTFL!!! You're a ZEALOT, a FOOL and an IDIOT!
February 21st, 2008 at 11:43 pmWhat good is the theory of evolution?
Comment by bitblt — February 20, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
ROTFL!! Let see. Medicine, agriculture, and SCIENTIFIC TRUTH that helps us UNDERSTAND OUR WORLD and OUR OWN BIOLOGY?
What good is a RELIGION that creates STUPID, IGNORANT HATEFUL PEOPLE like YOU?
February 21st, 2008 at 11:45 pmFirst Marauder and now you? You people must stop deviating from the prog line. You cannot say that evolution hasn’t been proven and you cannot mention intelligent design in a classroom. You can’t have kids discussing God willy nilly. Children must be protected from hearing about God at all costs. Please, get with the program! ;)
Comment by upright left — February 20, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
ROTFL!! There's A LOT more PROOF of EVOLUTION than their is of CHRISTIANITY - TARD!!!
In fact EVERY KEY aspect of modern evolution HAS been proven, based on the THEORY - MORON! Whereas Genesis has been DISPROVEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
February 21st, 2008 at 11:46 pmCome on bitblt, I DEBUNKED your NO NEW SPECIES LIE, and your only COMEBACK is to say that LOTS OF PEOPLE BELIEVE a MYTH is TRUE? ROTFL!!! So we should SPREAD their IGNORANCE because they have IGNORANCE? ROTFL, you RELIGIOUS NUTS are SO PATHETIC!!
February 21st, 2008 at 11:53 pmI don't understand why so many people on this board are so hostile, even if they do believe themselves to be right. Even Darwin would admit that by definition evolution is a scientific theory so I don't understand why some of you have issues with the language. And for those of you insulting people who have faith, you are the ones acting ignorant, not for your beliefs but for stereotyping Christians around the world and the people in FL. It is a fact that not all people who claim to be Christians are good people but to attack an entire relegion or someones world view on a message board seems childish. In my opinion it is because you know deep down inside there is a God, but you are the ones that choose to make yourself belief its not there and you look for excuses not believe and try and fool yourself into thinking you do not need a higher power, because you know that if there really is a God you would owe something to Him, and you are afraid of that. I believe God created this world with a plan, and I believe in natural selection and adaptation but I don't think humans came from monkeys. And I am still confused because science says that matter can't be created or destroyed ( I think God created laws of universe so it doesn't apply to Him) then where did the first single cell organism come from? Please Reply Sorry for such long post, I was just reading alot of the comments and felt the need to voice my opinions. Thanks
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:34 amEric Curatola: "where did the first single cell organism come from?"
Eric, if you have been paying any attention at all it should be obvious that the first single cell life form ( not an organism by the way - that would be a more complex life form) came from an even simpler life form like perhaps a virus or something else yet to be discovered.
As for your question "why so many people on this board are so hostile, even if they do believe themselves to be right?" In my opinion this hostility stems from the High and Mighty moral certitude of the Christian majority in this country and their willingness to shove their tripe down everyone else's throats. So the hostility is just a little blowback from Christianity's overaggressive militant evangelicalism and lack of respect for other beliefs of lack thereof.
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:43 amFirst Marauder and now you? You people must stop deviating from the prog line. You cannot say that evolution hasn’t been proven and you cannot mention intelligent design in a classroom. You can’t have kids discussing God willy nilly. Children must be protected from hearing about God at all costs. Please, get with the program! ;)
Comment by upright left — February 20, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
ROTFL!! There’s A LOT more PROOF of EVOLUTION than their is of CHRISTIANITY - TARD!!!
In fact EVERY KEY aspect of modern evolution HAS been proven, based on the THEORY - MORON! Whereas Genesis has been DISPROVEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
Comment by republicans hate facts — February 21, 2008 @ 11:46 pm
Still haven't learned to pay attention eh bud? It was one of yours who said, correctly, that the theory of evolution hasn't been proven. Get it straight. ;)
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:42 amIn response to Maruders comment I agree with you when you say that some Christians (quazzi Christians) are overly pushy with their beliefs which is wrong but that doesnt mean that they represent the entire faith and I dont think it deserves the blowback on this board. Did it ever occur to you that many atheists on this board like the ones who call believers morons or tards may be equally offensive? Either way its wrong to judge a group of people entirely on the actions of a few individuals. It really doesnt bother me much because I assume that most of these people are so adamant because they believe themselves to be correct and want to try and shed some light on others so in the end they have good intentions, so the next time someone posts about evangelists and their lack of respect for others beliefs maybe they can look at it from the same point of view.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:46 amI am far from an expert on evolution or biology or Christian science in that matter, but the most glaring flaw in the evolution theory to me is where did the matter come from, there has to be a God matter just didnt happen out of nowhere. Some have brought up the fact that since the beggining of time every culture has had its own God, it is because that there is something intuitive in us thats lets us know there is a higher power and while man has acheived great things and we are discovering more and more in this world we still have a creator. Maybe I missed it but can someone please explain to me the theory of evolution in lay mans terms, I have a general idea I just want to be sure? Thank You
Eric Curatola: "there has to be a God matter just didnt happen out of nowhere"
Eric just try to examine the reasoning behind your statement. Just because you do not know where matter came from, in no way implies that there must be a god only ignorance. Perhaps this god thing is just wishful thinking on your part. I understand it is difficult to let go of your security blanket after all these years of indoctrination in this form of what you believe to be "thinking". Be brave and try reading a little about science and try thinking in a rational way as opposed to a superstitious way.
February 23rd, 2008 at 9:22 amI notice you want to be spoon fed all of this information by us, perhaps a side effect of not having to use your brain all of these years because your religion already has all of the answers. Right now you are siting in front of one of the most powerful research tools available - the computer. Did it ever occur to you that you can find out anything you want to know just by going to Google and looking up these topics and doing a little reading and thinking on your own?
Or you can go to the library and get an introductory science book.
You say "it is because that there is something intuitive in us thats lets us know there is a higher power". I suggest you change this to "Is it because etc." and then go look for rational, verifiable evidence that can answer your question.
The first thing I suggest you look up is the scientific method because this is really the heart of science and how it works. If I remember correctly something your Saviour said about teaching a man to fish. It is time for you to learn how to use you own brain for thinking instead of just storing a bunch of stories. In science, believing yourself to be correct is not good enough. Try doing some research.
Comment by Marauder — February 23, 2008 @ 9:22 am
Perhaps you would like to point out where Eric can find how matter originated. He'll be looking for a long time if you think he'll ever find anything except more theories. You have no proof of the origin of matter or life just as believers have no proof of the origin of God or that he created everything. God created everything or things just began appearing out of nothing. There is no proof of either.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:46 pmI suppose our naive little troll has some proof to back this up. That’s the thing about theories, they don’t need proof to back them up whereas science does need proof.
I feel sorry for the people living in Florida. If I was a parent with a child in a Florida school, I would object strongly about their being taught evolution as a science.
I once read an article about some people who think that earth is a scientific experiment by advanced beings on another planet. They seeded this planet acer aspire 5100 battery,acer aspire 5610 battery with man and are watching how we evolve. If that turned out to be true, can’t you see all those evangelical heads blowing up.
October 15th, 2008 at 2:52 am