Gitmo defense lawyers: defending a man driven insane.
Gitmo defense lawyers: defending a man driven insane.
Today in the Washington Post, Joseph Margulies and George Brent Mickum — defense attorneys for Guantanamo detainee Abu Zubaydah — describe the prisoner’s mental insanity after being held by the United States for years:
Regardless of whether he was “insane” to begin with, he has gone through quite an ordeal since his arrest in Pakistan in March 2002. Shuttled through CIA “black sites” around the world, he was subjected to a sustained course of interrogation designed to instill what a CIA training manual euphemistically calls “debility, dependence and dread.” Zubaydah’s world became freezing rooms alternating with sweltering cells. Screaming noise replaced by endless silence. Blinding light followed by dark, underground chambers. Hours confined in contorted positions. And, as we recently learned, Zubaydah was subjected to waterboarding. We do not know what remains of his mind, and we will probably never know what he experienced.
They added that “if we cannot learn the facts and share them with others, the truth is only what the administration reports it to be.”
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Thank goodness they only do these thing in barbaric countries.
God Bless America!
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:19 pmThis is beyond sickening.
What are we…?
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:21 pmTo what end?
Has these barbaric tactics made us more safe?
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm“…the truth is only what the administration reports it to be.â€
Yeah, and we all know how well this administration does with the truth. :+
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 pmWhat are we…?
Comment by Zooey — February 23, 2008 @ 12:21 pm
We are a country that has abandoned the rule of law, and has, as a matter of official policy, committed crimes against humanity. We are a country being run by war criminals.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 pmThere will be karma.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:23 pmgop, the party of torture.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:26 pmThe only difference between the Nazis and the US is the ability to conceal, mislead and render the truth inaccessible.
Were the US to receive the same scrutiny, we would be exposed as every bit the monstrous self-appointed religious ‘world savior’ as the Aryan horror that inflicted so much death in the name of ‘advancement.’
Were there a real god, bush and cheney, rumsfeld, kristol, rice, ashcroft, would be paraded through the streets in chains, subjected to the ire and jeers of those they sought to subjugate through their banana republic machinations and kangaroo court intimidation.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:29 pmBush has a better press operation than Hitler.
To quote George Carlin: America is finished.
-GSD
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:31 pmSucks for the terrorists.
Comment by good_golly — February 23, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
yes, bush and henchmen will be forever vilified, with Hitler, et al.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:34 pmSucks for the terrorists.
Comment by good_golly — February 23, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
it also sucks for the American terrorists that they can’t get any real, valuable information with htis savage, primitive, inhuman treatment.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm“…the truth is only what the administration reports it to be.â€
It’s the same thing with reports out of Iraq.
A∞Ω
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:35 pmSomewhat off topic, but related to the WoT.
The administration’s strategy became clear yesterday: there will be no compromise. The Democrats will back down and pass the Senate’s version of the surveillance bill (with retroactive immunity for the telecoms), or they will be consistently attacked for exposing the country to risk.
The strategy continued today. For the second day in a row, Republicans boycotted talks to reconcile the Senate and House versions of the surveillance bill.
================================
If the Bush and his henchmen were really serious about this being a threat, why did Bush veto the FISA bill because it didn’t contain retro immunity? He apparently values the bank accounts of the telecoms more than he values the so-called security of the USA.
It goes without saying that if there was no law-breaking involved, immunity would not be needed.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:41 pmCome to think of it, Hillary voted for all this. That’s probably the reason she is doing so bad. It’s over.
OBAMA ‘08
A∞Ω
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm“Sucks for the terrorists.
Comment by good_golly — February 23, 2008 @ 12:32 pm”
actually the real terrorists are quite happy about these despicable actions. Their recruitment drive has never been better and the real terrorist are waiting to be greeted by their God once they finish being tortured by the infidels.
it really “sucks” to be one of the many innocent victims who have been renditioned and tortured by the most powerful country in the world.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:45 pmSucks for the terrorists.
Comment by good_golly — February 23, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
“sucks for the jews.”
– a. hitler
friend of yours gg?
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:45 pmSupport of the Republican agenda is outright treason.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:47 pmComment by joe cantwell — February 23, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Good one.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:52 pmSucks for the terrorists.
Comment by good_golly — February 23, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
What proof do you have that these people are terrorists? There has been no legitimate application of the rule of law to determine whether they are or are not terrorists. How do we know you are not a terrorist? We could just as easily subject you to this barbaric treatment on the basis of unsupported claims and conjecture.
Thanks for letting us know where you stand on civilization, the rule of law, and barbarism. We now know for sure which side you come down on. That you seem not the least bit bothered by this is sickening.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 pmIf we aren’t allowed to instill terror, then the terrorists win.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 pmSucks for the terrorists.
Comment by good_golly — February 23, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
Please provide a link to the signed Judgment of Conviction forms.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:58 pmThere will be karma.
Comment by Vanthomas — February 23, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
I believe this country has been accumulating bad karma for a long time, beginning with the destruction wrought upon the native Americans (still continuing), and includes dropping two nuclear weapons on Japan, sponsoring death squads in central and south america, the invasion of Iraq….just to name a few. The complete anniliation of a human mind is “small potatoes” I guess…except that it reveals the inhumanity that lies “below” the myth of America. For the trolls on this site, don’t accuse me of “blaming America first.” In fact, it is the overwhelming desire to “win” by ANY country or faction that seems to justify (in their own minds) the completely horrible and cruel behavior humans are capable of. Humans are also capable of incredibly beautiful things. The problem is that the evolved humans aren’t the ones that necessarily want power in the world. Power DOES corrupt. Any Christians out there might remember Jesus’s temptation in the desert. He turned it down.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:12 pmPlease provide a link to the signed Judgment of Conviction forms.
Comment by Zooey — February 23, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
They’re brown people with Arabic names – what more proof do you need? Sheesh!
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:13 pmRemember in GOP world, if you are accused of a crime, you are guilty.
Unless you are a Republican, then you are the victim of an out of control prosecutor.
Watch 60 Minutes on Sunday.
-GSD
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:26 pmReplace the word Jews for the word Muslim when you hear rightwingers talking.
You’ll catch the drift of what their brave new world is all about.
Same song, newer tune.
-GSD
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:27 pmWe still have a Chance to Elect an Honest, Conservative, Constitutionalist, Libertarian with a record of Principled Integrity and Leadership. Who has a clear plan to restore the Constitution, Reduce Government and Rebuild America. Elect Ron Paul President.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:29 pmRon Paul has raised $32 million dollars for his campaign from individual donors. McCain raised $54 million from Coal mining and generating companies that use coal. McCain flopped on his most core issue â€torture†to get the nomination and the support of George H. Bush. McCain is the only candidate that would pardon George W. Bush for his crimes and abuse of the constitution.
“We get the government we deserveâ€
They’re brown people with Arabic names – what more proof do you need? Sheesh!
Comment by toasterhead — February 23, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
What was I thinking….? My bad.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:35 pmSucks for the terrorists.
Comment by good_golly
Yet this idiot was whining and snivling about how st mcain is being denied the presumption of innocence in the press about his whoring and being a hypocrite lobbiyist lover.
You’d think these neocon trolls would be able to see the similarities, but then, if they did, they wouldn’t be neocon trolls.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm“… if we cannot learn the facts and share them with others, the truth is only what the administration reports it to be.â€
Well, shucks… this has been the point all along, no?
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm“”… It’s the DARVOnianRoveReichianFascistobushitcoism.”
Comment by satirev — February 23, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
Yeah, but let’s see yer George Bush puppet say that while you’ve got a mouth full of water!
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:59 pmComment by good_golly — February 23, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
And it puts us on equal footing w/ the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazis, and the Khmer Rouge!
We’re Number… huh… We’re Number… huh??? Hmmm…
What the HELL have we turned into?
And in such a short length of time, too.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:01 pm“It goes without saying that if there was no law-breaking involved, immunity would not be needed.”
Comment by Marie — February 23, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
Great Point Marie! Yesterday I posted on this thread :
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/22/coburn-iraq-mistake/#comments
#17 with a letter and a link to all of the members of the house.
Again I encourage everyone to write and call to urge them to do the right thing. They must not cave on this issue to the fearmongers on the wrong side of the aisle!
One more reason that I was so disappointed in “Real Time” last night. He let that jackass keep talking about how immunity is needed. LIES!
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:09 pmNow I’m off to : http://boards.hbo.com/forum/Maher-Member-Created/30054
To give Bill a small peice of my mind, (it’s all I can afford) ;)
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:12 pmI have no pity for this terrorist and neither should you.
Comment by Frank M — February 23, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
So says the self-admitted fascist.
So tell me, bedwetter: isn’t it high time you also admit to being a Nazi?
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:15 pmComment by satirev — February 23, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
The saddest part of this issue is that the U.S. has always portrayed themselves as a “free” nation, yet since the American Revolution, power has corrupted us. The Alien & Sedition Acts of 1798 are prime examples of a ruling class immediately following the ratification of the U.S. Constitution (in 1788) to maintain power and the status quo. Again, the desire to quash dissent resulted in a similiar piece of legisation (The Sedition Act of 1918). The concept of “Manifest Destiny” has been expanded to “Pax Americana.” Power corrupts!
My point is that the U.S. is that we, in this country, do not know the history of this country via what we are taught in our schools, or what we are shown through our media. We are told a myth and then encouraged to continue to believe it. Hence, all that WE do is “good,” and that all that our proclaimed enemy does is “Evil.” We never will have a chance to make this country what it has the potential to actually be until we recognize that it has NOT been the country we’ve been told it is. That’s the starting point to change.
Last point: any country that declares itself the “savior of the world” is usurping God (whatever one’s perception of that is), and in Christian theology, a system or person who does so is called “Antichrist.” The U.S. is only the latest of any country that has done so; there have been many more previously in history. They all lie in the dust now.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:16 pmAnd this at the hands of that ultimate “progressiveâ€.
What has Cuba become?
Comment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
This is the best straw man you can come up with, troll?
Observers, note the clear expression of a personal philosophy that two wrongs make a right. Typical mentality of a morally inferior fascist.
Pathetic and disgusting.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:18 pmAnd this at the hands of that ultimate “progressiveâ€.
What has Cuba become?
Comment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
Why would you consider Castro the “ultimate progressive?” Establishing a totalitarian government is hardly progressive, whether right or left-leaning.
The question here is what the hell has the U.S. become? Is Castro worse than us? You have no logical argument here. All you are saying is, “But look what (our enemy) has done!” So? Do two wrongs make a right?
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm“Why would you consider Castro the “ultimate progressive?â€
Comment by impeachcheneythenbush — February 23, 2008 @ 2:21 pmâ€
Too much Michael Moore maybe? He’s never wrong, is he? You obviously missed the memo.
Comment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
Sorry Gin, but unlike so many on the Right, I don’t use the “talking points” of people on the Left. But you didn’t answer the real question: “Do two wrongs make a right?” More to the point, is it only ok when the U.S. does it, but abhorrent when our enemy does it?
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:33 pmToo much Michael Moore maybe? He’s never wrong, is he? You obviously missed the memo.
Comment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
Is it possible for you to say something that isn’t a straw man argument? Or are you every bit as intellectually inferior as you are morally inferior?
Or is it that you think everyone else marches in lockstep with their chosen leader the way you march in lockstep with yours? If that is the case, you need to be told that progressives aren’t lickspittles who grovel at the feet of their authoritarian masters.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:33 pmToo much Michael Moore maybe? He’s never wrong, is he? You obviously missed the memo.
Comment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
And you’ve clearly missed more than a memo. You do look pathetic and desperate, thrashing around with bullsh!t like identifying Castro as a progressive. It’s a sign of how weak your viewpoint is that you have to lie so often.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:34 pmFrank the wondertroll is here. How do you know he was a ‘terrorist’? Because your lord and king George Bush said so?! You’d believe anything these sadistic barbarians would tell you. I bet you even believe Larry Craig’s “wide stance” statement. You and people like you seem to be overly joyous whenever the US is engaged in armed conflict with another entity. It’s like a sporting event to you. Rah rah, wave the flag, kill, kill, kill! We have to stay in Iraq until we win. WIN WHAT?! What will constitute victory there? There are many solutions to any problem. Invading Iraq in response to 9-11 was just wrong not to mention based 100% on lies.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:36 pmRumsfeld said there weren’t enough good targets to bomb in Afghanistan. That statement seems to infer that they just wanted lots of things to blow up. That’s why we didn’t stay and finish the job there. We just grabbed a bunch of people and flew them to Gitmo to be tortured over and over again. So how much information can you get out of someone incarcerated for 6 years that’s pertinent to today’s mission? None. So why still torture. Because you enjoy it.
to whom that did this:
i will revel the day when we see your sorry asses hanging by the necks till your sorry, worthless excuse for a human beings are dead.
mankind doesn’t need your ilk. if anyone has a chance to capture and torture these individuals who did this kind of thing… feel free, we’re at war and no rules apply.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:37 pmAs you sow so shall you reap. He chose to pick up arms against us.
I have no pity for this terrorist and neither should you.
Comment by Frank M
Go to hell Frank. If I have to wait until you die for you to go to hell, fine, until then, just go away.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:39 pmWhat has Cuba become?
Comment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
The USA, obviously.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:47 pmPay no attention to frank M, he’s a paid troublemaker, 10 cents a post. he’s a proven coward with no military experience, and no education.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:48 pmThis brings to mind the concept, “the banality of evil,” which posits that evil (such as the Holocaust) is not committed by sociopaths, but by ordinary people who accept the premises of the state.
Premise one: These prisoners are terrorists.
Premise two: The accepted rules of law and human rights do not apply to them.
Premise three: They deserve to be tortured, even killed without due process.
Premise four: Anyone who does not agree with these premises are stupid or supporters of terror.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:56 pm“As for HAVING SYMPATHY, how about HAVING HUMANITY and COMPASSION you f**KING NEO-NAZI? It’s UNAMERICAN to BEHAVE and BELIEVE as YOU DO – get the f**K out of MY COUNTRY you FASCIST PIG!”
Comment by republicans hate facts — February 23, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
DAMN, RHF, don’t hold back… it’s not good to keep it all bottled up inside. Let it out man, get it off your chest! ;) SNARK-OFF
I agree with you! It’s punks like this that are ruining our country! The problem is that many off the same ilk are running this country right now. Right into the ground! And all of them are so isolated and protected that if they were to say this shit on the street, outside of thier bubble and with out their protections, they would be squashed like the bugs they are.
February 23rd, 2008 at 2:59 pmI have no pity for this terrorist and neither should you.
Comment by Frank M — February 23, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
And once again Frank SWINGS for the fences and misses completely.
(Gits kinda painful after a while, doesn’t it, watchin’ poor poor Frankie whiff endlessly?)
Okay, let’s see if I can put it in one syllable words.
It is not about (2, sorry) pity, it is about what we BECOME when we behave like this. We are now on par w/ the Nazis, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Khmer Rouge.
February 23rd, 2008 at 3:04 pmWhat has Cuba become?
Comment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
Well, from the description of what they were subjected to, I’d say Cuba has become the US…
February 23rd, 2008 at 3:13 pmAs you sow so shall you reap. He chose to pick up arms against us.
I have no pity for this terrorist and neither should you.
Comment by Frank M — February 23, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
Bush and Cheney couldn’t have destroyed the country without the help of fascists like you and gin and good_golly. This is America and we have a Constitution and if you can’t follow the rules get the hell out of OUR COUNTRY. Get out or we’ll throw you in a cell and show you that waterboarding is in fact torture as are the other enhanced interrogation techniques you’re so fond of before we throw you out of the country.
February 23rd, 2008 at 3:19 pmWhat’s sad is for the first time in his life, Frank/Jake is PROUD of our country for behaving like a third world dictatorship! ;)
Comment by republicans hate facts — February 23, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
Amazing, isn’t it? On one hand our beloved trolls condemn us for being “soft on tha terra-ists”, and then turn right around and blame Cuba on us, when it sounds like the Cubans have been alledgedly behaving… just like… us.
We also have no idea who these “Cubans” are – the ones talking about the abuse. Were they far-right terrorists themselves? How do we know their stories are true? What an F-in’ mess…
February 23rd, 2008 at 3:23 pmbring on the suitcase nukes…place them strategically in Penn Station, NY and in Chicago and lets rid ourselves of this repulsive entity called amerika.
Comment by jason baddo — February 23, 2008 @ 3:44 pm
Just reported you for abuse, Jason. Encouraging violence is the OPPOSITE of what TP stands for. Trying to give material to the right-wing? I was part of the peace movement back in the 60’s and 70’s. We always had to contend with people like you. Also found out that many were FBI plants. Go spew your b.s. somewhere else. We are about liberty and justice, NOT turning into the slime that rules this country presently.
February 23rd, 2008 at 3:53 pmComment by jason baddo — February 23, 2008 @ 3:44 pm
the trolls are getting desperate.
friend of yours gg?
(flagged for abuse)
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:03 pmComment by jason baddo — February 23, 2008 @ 4:00 pm
flagged again. for personal invective, abuse and, of course, being a troll.
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:06 pm#
bring on the suitcase nukes…place them strategically in Penn Station, NY and in Chicago and lets rid ourselves of this repulsive entity called amerika.
Comment by jason baddo — February 23, 2008 @ 3:44 pm
1: Flagged as inappropriate for hateful content.
Suitcase nukes: Do not exist, they are a right-wing fantasy created to scare gullible fools such as the sockpuppet jason baddo.
Ridding the world of America: You don’t need a fictional boogie-man created by the Fascist Authortarian organization known as the American Right to do that. The Authortarian Right does that fine all by itself.
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:15 pmConsidering the fact that literally thousands of scientists, engineers, PHD’s, celebrites and people you would never consider to be kooks are saying the governments story about what occurred on 911 is unbelievable due to evidence and physics, should we not do a real investigation into what happened on 911 before we sentence these guys in a kangaroo court?
I mean admittmitting a confession that was optained thru torture is not exactly going to sit well with the world community that already believes 911 was an Inside job.
According to a Zogby poll done last September (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354), 51% of Americans want Bush/Cheney investigated for their role in 911.
I guess Americans are starting to think of 911 in the same terms as the rest of the world community. It is taking longer considering the constant barrage of patriotic propaganda that the Republicans push through the main-stream media (You just can’t find those flag pin lapels anywhere because of the huge demand).
The Chairman of the 911 Commission, Thomas Kean, did admit that the 911 commission was set up to fail.
Hmmmmm?
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:16 pmGeneral to Marines: No Such Thing as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
http://civilcoldwar.blogspot.com/2005/03/general-to-marines-no-such-thing-as.html
————————————————————————-
General Officer Announcement
So he gets LEAPFROGGED from one to three-star rank? Shouldn’t sensitivity training on the psychological detriments of war be in order?
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:25 pmTorture- which the U.S. definitely does & condones- destroys people and ends with ‘information’ that has no validity- proved over & over. If tortured, people will say anything to have it stopped. It is not evidence. It is forced falsehoods.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:05 pmYa know, if you insert a thin pin into the brain and swirl it around, you can totally disrupt any higher brain functions and totally remove any ability to reply to the charges.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:13 pmWhat is sad is that these effing clods don’t realize we don’t enact rules to protect criminals. The reason to abide by the highest standards, of prisoner treatment, is for OUR protection. Not long ago an American held by a foreign power, legit or not, could count on the fact that his/her captors might hold themselves to the same standards.
Now? An innocent American mistakenly arrested by, let’s say, Chinese police can expect nothing but abuse. We have sacrificed the “moral high ground” and nothing short of the prosecution of the guilty will restore us. Anyone who would condone the mistreatment of a prisoner is an enemy of our Democracy and all the good we have ever done. They are subhuman.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:23 pmComment by Gin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
Is it possible for you to say something that isn’t a straw man argument? Or are you every bit as intellectually inferior as you are morally inferior?
It is incapable of intelligent thought. It is the Borg tied to it’s mother ship. Hopefully when the mother ship goes down, it will implode with it.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:42 pm“Considering the fact that literally thousands of scientists, engineers, PHD’s, celebrites and people you would never consider to be kooks…”
Comment by ctcadguy — February 23, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
Pretty funny. ;)
February 23rd, 2008 at 7:01 pmDon’t think this couldn’t happen to YOU.
February 23rd, 2008 at 7:31 pmThey are subhuman.
Comment by pete — February 23, 2008 @ 6:23 pm
Without question!
Now how do we rid ourselves of them?
February 23rd, 2008 at 8:23 pmNow how do we rid ourselves of them?
Comment by TheRadicalRightisRadicallyWrong — February 23, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
Fumigate?
February 23rd, 2008 at 9:10 pmPretty funny. ;)
Comment by upright left — February 23, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
very funny, from the party that runs decrepit old actors for president. ul is a shallow fool.
February 23rd, 2008 at 10:17 pmThe U.S. can do better than this. As if our safety was up to whether we torture or not. It’s this kind of logic that Bush uses to force words through an endless twist and turn blender to make us scared and weird. It hasn’t worked and will not work. How do we “sell” democracy if this is what it is. A country that disappears people, spies on its on citizens and starts war by lying? Our entire system of law is based on innocence until proven guilty. We have an entire body of law on the books about the treatment of suspects and our criminal courts are guided by it. The law is who we are. With a lawless president, we have treated this man like a dog. I don’t care who he is, if our principles don’t fit in one instance they don’t fit in every instance. 9/11 is no excuse to become crazy with revenge. We are a country of laws. If we are a great country we apply our principles to everyone not just the favored few. How shameful it is to treat anyone in this manner. Shame on Bush, the CIA and Christian, Muslim, Jewish and other faiths for letting this happen without expressing any outrage.
February 24th, 2008 at 10:00 amThe original Catch 22: it you’re sane enough to pretend to be insane, then you must be sane. Sounds insane to me.
http://newsprism.wordpress.com
February 24th, 2008 at 9:36 pmPretty funny. ;)
Comment by upright left — February 23, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
very funny, from the party that runs decrepit old actors for president. ul is a shallow fool.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — February 23, 2008 @ 10:17 pm
C’mon bud, it’s lefties who equate,”literally thousands of scientists, engineers, PHD’s, celebrites and people you would never consider to be kooks…â€
February 24th, 2008 at 10:55 pmWay to take those scientists, engineers and PHD’s down a notch. ;)