Ellen: ‘We must change’ our country’s attitudes towards gays.
In a segment that airs today, talk show host Ellen DeGeneras speaks about the murder of 15-year-old Lawrence King, who was killed by a classmate for being gay. Saying that “we must change our country,” Ellen urges her audience to “check on who you’re voting for” to see if they stand for gay rights:
A boy has been killed and a number of lives have been ruined. And, somewhere along the line the killer, Brandon, got the message that it’s so threatening, so awful, and so horrific that Larry would want to be his Valentine — that killing Larry seemed to be the right thing to do. And when the message out there is so horrible that to be gay, you can get killed for it, we need to change the message. Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It’s ok if you’re gay.
Watch it:
“I think one thing we should change is hate,” Ellen said. “Check on who you’re voting for. Does that person really truly believe that we are all equal under the law?”
Transcript:
I need to talk to you about something that’s really serious and really sad. And, if you know me it’s hard to talk about sad stuff without getting emotional but this is really important to talk about. On February 12th an openly gay 15 year-old boy named Larry, (King) who was an 8th grader in Oxnard, California was murdered by a fellow 8th grader, named Brandon. Larry was killed because he was gay. Days before he was murdered, Larry had asked his killer to be his Valentine.
I don’t want to be political. This is not political. I’m not a political person, but this is personal to me. A boy has been killed and a number of lives have been ruined. And, somewhere along the line the killer, Brandon got the message that it’s so threatening so awful and so horrific that Larry would want to be his Valentine, that killing Larry seemed to be the right thing to do. And when the message out there is so horrible that to be gay, you can get killed for it, we need to change the message.
Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It’s ok if you’re gay.
I don’t care what people say; I don’t care what people think. I know there are entire groups of people who face discrimination every single day and I know we are a long way from treating each other equally.
All of it is unacceptable. All of it. But I would like you to start paying attention to how often being gay is the punch line of a monologue or how often gay jokes are in a movie. And that kind of message, laughing at someone because they’re gay is just the beginning. It starts with laughing at someone, and then it’s verbal abuse, then it’s physical abuse, and it’s this kid Brandon killing a kid like Larry.
We must change our country, and we can do it. We can do it with our behavior; we can do it with the messages that we send our children. We can do it with our vote. This is an election year and there’s a lot of talk about change. I think one thing we should change is hate. Check on who you’re voting for. Does that person really truly believe that we are all equal under the law? If you’re not sure, I say change your vote. We deserve better.
My heart goes out to everybody involved on this horrible, horrible incident. All the families, even Brandon’s life has changed because he did this.
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‘We must change’ our country’s attitudes towards gays.
and human beings that are not Americans.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:54 pmThe prejudice and stupidity of the religious morons that have so much influence in the US is despicable ; that is what contributed to this tragic event.
To those of you who claim to be religious and “righteous” ; does this event seem “right” to you ?
February 29th, 2008 at 12:55 pmLarry was killed because he was gay.
According to Psychology: Larry was killed because Brandon was gay.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:57 pmAccording to me Juan C, you are part of the problem and not the solution.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:58 pmIt’s appalling that they want to charge this kid as an adult.
What could be more immature and childlike than reacting with violence at being teased about being gay?
He’s a kid, he reacted with kid emotions, and he just happened to have access to a deadly weapon.
Sad all around.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:59 pmI’ve never understood why someone would hate a person simply because that person is homosexual…So many great and creative people have been homosexual throughout history.
It makes no sense to me.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:59 pmA heart-felt “HEAR, HEAR!!” to you, Ellen.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:00 pmWhat a heartbreaking story.
All of it is unacceptable. All of it. But I would like you to start paying attention to how often being gay is the punch line of a monologue or how often gay jokes are in a movie.
Ellen is right.
This goes on right here at ThinkProgress — it’s unacceptable.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:00 pmThe first thing we need to do is start reject and denounce the hate-mongers in our society. I’m talking about the right-wing “Christians” that preach that homosexuality is a sin. We are all entitled to our religious beliefs but not to enforce them on others. The 14th amendment to the constitution says that all citizens are entitled to equal treatment under the law. That means if heterosexuals have the right to be married, so do homosexuals. We must reject and denounce the theocrats and their lies that America was meant to be a christian nation. Know your history and don’t let them get away with that propaganda.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:00 pmDevils and Dust. Fear’s a powerful thing, it will turn your heart black you can trust…….
February 29th, 2008 at 1:00 pmHow soon before “pick & choose” “c”hristians Daryll and Bitbit are here to throw their highliy specific verses of the Bible to justify their hatred for gay people?
Why do the Daryll & Bitbit “pick & choose” “c”hristians only use some of the Bible to support their prejudice, while they ignore the words of Jesus about divorced people remarrying is a sin?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:01 pmComment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
Well said mr. napier.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:01 pm6 - Note to Charlie Nappy - IT’S BECAUSE YOUR FASCIST REPUBLICAN SCUMPIG RULERS HAVE BEEN TELLING THEM TO FOR YEARS.
Clueless moron.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:01 pmThis goes on right here at ThinkProgress — it’s unacceptable.
Comment by Zooey — February 29, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
Zoo, sure, some of it is sophomoric and crude, but most of the “gay” accusations here are directed at trolls who react so vehemently against the very notion of two people of the same sex being in love.
It’s not especially unfair.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm6 - Why not repudiate their hatred, Charlie? Do it now. By name.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pmWe must change our country, and we can do it. We can do it with our behavior; we can do it with the messages that we send our children. We can do it with our vote. This is an election year and there’s a lot of talk about change. I think one thing we should change is hate. Check on who you’re voting for. Does that person really truly believe that we are all equal under the law? If you’re not sure, I say change your vote. We deserve better.
Ahhh, so that must be the “gay agenda” the Christian Taliban is always screaming about.
Scary stuff, eh?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pmI’ll give Chuckles some credit for a reasoned opinion, for once.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:03 pmEven tho I was a dirty hippie commie in the sixties and embraced the embodied laissez faire social attitude, I still felt uncomfortable with and biased toward homosexuality… until I got to know some gay people. Many became friends treasured to this day. This is why it’s so important for gays to display the courage so many do and be open about their sexuality - it’s an education for heteros. There will continue to be animosity and violence toward gays (and there will always be the emotionally crippled), but it will dissipate in time.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:04 pmAccording to me Juan C, you are part of the problem and not the solution.
Comment by hellinabucket
And what’s your problem now?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:05 pmI’ve never understood why someone would hate a person simply because that person is homosexual…It makes no sense to me.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
And it makes sense that you’re a GOP/Chimpy leg humping chucklehead ?
The people you’re questioning are the same ones you VOTE FOR . Go ask them ; and then ask yourself why you would vote for those whom you seriously just questioned…………
February 29th, 2008 at 1:06 pm#6 - Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
I agree, well said Mr. Napier. I may not agree with you often, but I do now!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:06 pmEven here on TP threads, how many times do posters taunt each other with jabs at each other’s sexual orientation? How many times do posters call other posters gay or homosexual because they disagree with them? Why is this considered to be the ultimate insult?
I’ve always believed that should stop. Now is as good a time as any to say so.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:06 pmI’ll give Chuckles some credit for a reasoned opinion, for once.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
I won’t ; he’s chastising those whom he supports.
That makes absolutely zero sense.
Words on a blog are basically meaningless ; entertainment at best.
An action like a vote , especially for the GOP , has much more impact ; and sadly , in a bad way , usually……..
February 29th, 2008 at 1:08 pmIt’s not especially unfair.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
It’s unfair to the gay community.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:09 pmI’ve always believed that should stop. Now is as good a time as any to say so.
Comment by missmolly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
I agree completely, Miss Molly, and said so above. It likely won’t go over well…
February 29th, 2008 at 1:10 pmRe #6
Thank you Charles.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:11 pmI’ve always believed that should stop. Now is as good a time as any to say so.
Comment by missmolly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
Agreed. It’s intellectually lazy, in addition to being intolerant. There are so many ways to insult people that are vastly more creative.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:12 pmWhy not repudiate their hatred, Charlie? Do it now. By name.
Comment by Leftside Annie
————————————————————
By name?…..Sure: I repudiate the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia & The Iranian government of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and their predesesors who have been the worst oppressors of homosexuals in the modern world.
I also repudiate every person who harbors hatred in their hearts towards homosexuals regardless of their political affiliation.
How’s that?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:13 pmHate is not innate. It’s a learned trait. People are not born racists.
I can’t wait to see what Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Coulter, Savage, and Beck have to say about Ellen. They make more annually than most of will in our lifetimes. And they do it by hating. They do it by cheerleading hate. They do it because they are given a platform and a lot of money.
Nothing will change until the pocketbooks of those paying exorbitant amounts to these people are damaged.
WE are paying for hate.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:13 pmJust a note, Ali: It’s DeGenerEs, not DeGenerAs.
And yes, judging a person by its sexual orientation is simply evil. No one but God (or goddess Nature) has given us our sexual tendencies, heterosexual or homosexual.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pmWhy not repudiate their hatred, Charlie? Do it now. By name.
Comment by Leftside Annie
————————————————————
By name?…..Sure: I repudiate the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia & The Iranian government of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and their predesesors who have been the worst oppressors of homosexuals in the modern world.
I also repudiate every person who harbors hatred in their hearts towards homosexuals regardless of their political affiliation.
How’s that?
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
Then why do you try and defend Shrub and Co ; and why do you vote Republican ?
You’re part of the problem , regardless of the words you post here………
February 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pmThank you Charles.
Comment by Bobwurst
Thank you? Why you should thank a human being for caring about another human being? To me, it’s the least you could do.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pmSomeone needs to tell Charles Napier that the preferred term is gay. Even the Washington Times no longer uses homosexual to refer to gay people because the term is clinical and suggestive of some abnormality. Otherwise, agree with the post.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pmBTW, I used racists in my 1:13 post as but one example. I should have used homophobe to be on track for this thread. Sorry…my bad.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pmThe sort of hatred does not come naturally to children. It is learned from adults. And Republicans have been very active in teaching this kind of hatred.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:16 pmI’ve always believed that should stop. Now is as good a time as any to say so.
Comment by missmolly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
I’ve never understood why people on this website call each other names in the first place. Its just sophomoric and takes away from any credibility to the argument you are making.
With that said, I feel strongly about 1st Amendment rights. If you want to make a homophobic (or anti-Semitic, or racist) remark, joke, or slur, you have the right to do so. Not saying I agree with it…just feel it the course of freedom, this is one of the prices you have to pay.
I also feel gays should have the exact same rights as the rest of us: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal….â€
February 29th, 2008 at 1:16 pmEquality is one of the foundations of our country.
#22 — Always the voice of reason, miss molly, completely agree. I always thought the use of that as an ultimate insult was disturbing on this blog, particularly since I am a happy gay boy;)
February 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pmI also feel gays should have the exact same rights as the rest of us: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal….â€
Equality is one of the foundations of our country.
Comment by dim wit — February 29, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
Precisely
Why shouldn’t gays and lesbians be just as miserable in marriage as heteros seem to be …………….It’s only fair.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pmThen why do you try and defend Shrub and Co ; and why do you vote Republican ?
You’re part of the problem , regardless of the words you post here………
Comment by MCMetal
———————————————-
Does Shrub hate homosexuals?…I don’t think so.
I know that YOU hate Shrub, but that’s different.
And, even though you folks don’t believe me, I do not support everything that President Shrubby says or does.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:19 pmWords on a blog are basically meaningless ; entertainment at best.
An action like a vote , especially for the GOP , has much more impact ; and sadly , in a bad way , usually……..
Comment by MCMetal — February 29, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
True enough, MC, but words on a blog are all we have on which to judge each other here. If we can criticize trolls like Napier when they say repugnant our abhorrent things, we should be equally able to praise them when they say human or reasonable things.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:19 pmJust a note, Ali: It’s DeGenerEs, not DeGenerAs.
And yes, judging a person by its sexual orientation is simply evil. No one but God (or goddess Nature) has given us our sexual tendencies, heterosexual or homosexual.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — February 29, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
___________________________
I don’t think it matters whether it is by birth or by choice. It may be some of each. The bottom line is that none of us should discriminate against anyone because he/she may be gay.
Comment by good_golly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
You just called yourself out ; you vote for those who do that ………
February 29th, 2008 at 1:19 pmIf you check out the United Church of Christ’s website (Obama’s church) http://www.ucc.org/lgbt/ you will see that it is truly all inclusive. As a Christian, I have always wondered why so many other Christians condemn what they disagree with. This goes all the way to some of us not going to heaven because we are not “Christian” enough. When God taps me on the shoulder and tells me it’s now up to me to judge everyone not like me, maybe I will consider it. Until then, let’s just leave it in God’s hands and reach out with love and tolerance.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pmCan we just challenge any of the phobic freaks to pony up and take their stand? I am not suggesting they need be banned or anything only that the record show where everyone stands. There is no moment that I regret placing the responsibility of my daughter’s life in the hands of her two godfathers should that need arise.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pmWords on a blog are basically meaningless ; entertainment at best.
An action like a vote , especially for the GOP , has much more impact ; and sadly , in a bad way , usually……..
Comment by MCMetal — February 29, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
True enough, MC, but words on a blog are all we have on which to judge each other here. If we can criticize trolls like Napier when they say repugnant our abhorrent things, we should be equally able to praise them when they say human or reasonable things.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
Actions say much more than mere words ; both Golly and Chuck are expounding on the incorrectness of being homophobic/hateful towards gays.
Then why vote for those who are ?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pmZoo, sure, some of it is sophomoric and crude, but most of the “gay†accusations here are directed at trolls who react so vehemently against the very notion of two people of the same sex being in love.
It’s not especially unfair.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
Zooey’s right — it IS unfair. Let me put this is a slightly different setting.
What if, instead of a poster prattling on and on against homosexuals, he was blasting non-whites? Would it be reasonable or “fair” to taunt him by calling him the N word?
Most people would think that to be unfair. Not as much to the “tauntee”, but certainly to the rest of the readers of the thread. It’s offensive, no matter how it’s used.
Any anti-gay slurs should be treated with as much disdain.
Furthermore (and I have said this before many times), when one resorts to taunts and name-calling, it means that person has run out of intelligent debate.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pmDoes Shrub hate homosexuals?…I don’t think so.
I know that YOU hate Shrub, but that’s different.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
Both points are irrelevant. The Republican party has pandered to homophobic bigots for a long time. There is no denying it. It is disgusting. Those who vote Republican enable hatred and bigotry towards gay people. Republicans have worked hard to thwart hate crimes legislation aimed at persecution of gay people as part of this pandering. Republicans have encouraged hatred and discrimination against gay people with a wink and a nod.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pmVerbalKint,
Kids can be very cruel, but you’re right when you say that hatred is taught….although I think that you would be surprised to find that irrational hatred of homosexuals falls on both sides of the political spectrum.
Many rap lyrics contain hateful comments about gays and I doubt that most rappers are Republicans.
I think that such hatred is often rooted in the haters own confusion regarding his/her own sexuality.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pm42. If any of us only voted for people that we agreed with 100% on all issues, there would be nobody to vote for.
Comment by good_golly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:21 pm
Promoting fear, racism, hatred, bigotry, homophobia, and xenophobia is the GOP stock in trade. It is a global strategy employed by the party. On that count alone, no one should vote Republican until the party reforms its way.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pm42. If any of us only voted for people that we agreed with 100% on all issues, there would be nobody to vote for.
Comment by good_golly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:21 pm
Gimme’ a break ; the last 5 Republican presidents have all committed criminal acts .
And the latest GOP candidate spins more on his opinions than a pinwheel would during a hurricane ; that isn’t someone worth a damn , yet you probably are gonna’ vote for that wrinkled , senile old fool.
Where’s the sense in that ?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pmIt’s unfair to the gay community.
Comment by Zooey — February 29, 2008 @ 1:09 pm
I’ll agree that reflexive, simplistic gay slurs are unfair to the gay community.
But that doesn’t mean that anything “gay” is off-limits. If a troll like Daryll shows up and says homosexuals are going to hell, I don’t think it’s much a stretch to propose that Daryll himself is a closeted homosexual. Much like Ted Haggard.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pmI just dont undestand why there are people out there that dont want homosexuals to be just as miserable in marriage as us hetrosexuals.
Misery loves company!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pmVerbalKint,
Kids can be very cruel, but you’re right when you say that hatred is taught….although I think that you would be surprised to find that irrational hatred of homosexuals falls on both sides of the political spectrum.
Many rap lyrics contain hateful comments about gays and I doubt that most rappers are Republicans.
I think that such hatred is often rooted in the haters own confusion regarding his/her own sexuality.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
You’re comparing a form of music to one of the basis and platforms of a political party ?
Rap artists/music are an expression ; you can choose to listen or not listen to it.
Politicians determine the direction of our country and the laws which we live by and have a much more direct impact on our daily lives; notice the slight difference ?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:27 pmI think that you would be surprised to find that irrational hatred of homosexuals falls on both sides of the political spectrum.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
Oh, well, Chuckles, you had it going there for a moment.
Then you decided to play the “everybody does it” card. Care to offer any evidence for a systematic “irrational hatred of homosexuals” on the Left?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:28 pmComment by missmolly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:22 pm
I agree with your first but not so much the second.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:29 pmIn general I think there has been improvement from a year or so ago on the rascist, phobic, and sexist comments.
As to name calling I am less sure that it is an equivalency. In some cases some name calling can be a creative use of satire/comedy and may serve an interesting purpose if employed in a thoughtful manner. I myself am no namecaller. I just think that we may be talking about two distinctly different situations
http://online.logcabin.org/
Comment by good_golly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
You’re hopeless
You post a link to a group of morons that has John friggin’ Bolton as a “keynote speaker” and expect to be taken even somewhat seriously ?
You’re incredibly silly ………
February 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pmGood for Ellen.
Homosexuality is clearly biological - why would anyone CHOOSE to be part of a group that faces such bigotry?
Were either of my children to turn out gay, I would love them just the same. Everyone’s child deserves the same respect.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pmSad that the hate mongers of society have brought down our world to this level.
You have to just listen to Rush, Bildo, Laura, Mann Coulter and the like to see that they are a large part of the problem with the spreading of hate in this country.
They constantly try and make the Reichwingers hate the rest of American citizens because they think and act differently than them.
Buck Fush
February 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pm.
In the Seattle area, we are blessed(?) to have such a Pastor that loves to hate.
ORCINUS covers it well…
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ 2008/ 02/ they-love-to-hate.html
A few teachers are being threatened with their jobs because they dared to confront this bigoted Pastor while he addressed a school assembly about equality on MLK jr Day.
.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pmActions say much more than mere words ; both Golly and Chuck are expounding on the incorrectness of being homophobic/hateful towards gays.
Then why vote for those who are ?
Comment by MCMetal — February 29, 2008 @ 1:22 pm
You don’t trust their words on gays, why trust their words on who they would vote for? After all, it’s nothing but words on a blog. You have no idea what actions are taken by the people who author these words.
If you’re going to take their words seriously, then challenge their stated positions — that’s fair — but don’t claim that reasonable positions that they take are not worthy of praise.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pmI agree with dbadass.
Making name calling the whole “argument” of your posts are an incredible waste of time. But using them, from time to time, to EMPHASIZE arguments, it is enrichening, I think.
Sometimes a nice “moron” is better than a large paragraph filled with pseudo-tolerance.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:33 pmAs the mother of a gay man, this is disturbing to me on so many levels. There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t fear for his saftey just because he is gay.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:33 pmSometimes a nice “moron†is better than a large paragraph filled with pseudo-tolerance.
Comment by Juan C. — February 29, 2008 @ 1:33 pm
I’m with ya there.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:34 pmSometimes a nice “moron†is better than a large paragraph filled with pseudo-tolerance.
Comment by Juan C. — February 29, 2008 @ 1:33 pm
And sometimes it’s just a statement of obvious fact…
February 29th, 2008 at 1:35 pmAs for some of the di(kweeds who post here, there is never a reason to call them anything other than what they are: racists, homophopes, $h!theads, a$$wipes, jerkoffs, TRAITORS!
There are so many pejoratives appropros to their level of idiocy, random slurs that apply to a broad range of people (well, unless you’re a gooper, then all’s fair and all), random hurtful slurs are not needed.
(wink wink nudge nudge)
February 29th, 2008 at 1:35 pm#61 - “…religion. Last I checked, this too was a “chosen behavior.— Comment by Max-1 — February 29, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
Very good point! Why is one’s religious “choice” somehow more sacrosanct than supposed sexual-expression “choice” when it comes to civil rights?
Sexual orientation is not something that is chosen. Only how we express our sexuality. I never chose to be gay, but I thank God for making me the way that I am!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pmI don’t think it’s much a stretch to propose that Daryll himself is a closeted homosexual. Much like Ted Haggard.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 1:25 pm
C’mon, Ralph! It’s not mere speculation. Some of the comments are absolutely disgusting and embarrassing. I often wonder what our gay commenters think of those types of comments.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pmYears from now, people will look back and wonder how on earth it took so damn long for gays to achieve true equality.
A little humor from a few years back:
Ten Reasons to oppose gay marriage:
1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, liposuction, and air conditioning.
2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all: women are still property, blacks still can’t marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full yet, and the world needs more children.
7) Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.
9) Children can never succeed without both a male and a female role model at home. That’s why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven’t adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pmCare to offer any evidence for a systematic “irrational hatred of homosexuals†on the Left?
———————————————–
I’m not referring to politicians, I’m referring to individuals.
Care to offer any evidence for a systematic “irrational hatred of homosexuals†on the Right?
BTW - I do not consider the belief that homosexual behavior is a sin to be equal to hatred….but I’m sure you do. Nor do I consider it hatred to wish to preserve marriage as it has always been; the union of a man and and a women.
That said, I am in favor of civil unions for same sex couples and I personally could live with same sex marriage so long as it is instituted with the consent of the people and not by the decree of some judge or court.
Now I’d better go before one of you calls me a Nazi.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pm“irrational hatred of homosexuals falls on both sides of the political spectrum.”
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
A few years ago I saw an excellent feature length documentary that focused on half a dozen individuals who are now serving long prison sentences for killing gay people specifically because of sexual orientation. These people were provided extensive, uninterrupted camera time to express themselves about their crime. Some of them were hyper-religious, and others weren’t. Some of them had themselves engaged in gay sex acts, some of them hadn’t (none of them admitted to being gay, however). The common theme that emerged among them was their sense that society disapproved of homosexuality. The hyper-religious ones felt that killing a gay person was justified by their religious beliefs, essentially by the notion in their mind that God hates homosexuals. The non-religious latent homosexuals expressed the view that killing a gay person was a low risk act because they believed that the police would not investigate the crime with any enthusiasm, because in their mind gay people were unimportant, on par with hookers.
Although each of these people murdered a gay person for their own personal reasons, each of them also was motivated by their sense that gay people were hated by most other people. Now, Charles, explain to me how the Republican party is not aggravating the likelihood of violence against gay people when they promote legal discrimination against them?
Charles, you are an equivalencer. You are one of those Republicans who rationalizes the bad deeds of your party by conjuring some trumped up equivalence with non-Republicans.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pmRight wing Christianity has done this to America. Theirs is not a religion of Jesus, but a religion of hate, and greed for power. Theirs is the religion of the Antichrist.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:42 pmI’m not referring to politicians, I’m referring to individuals.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Read my previous comment. Individuals may experience feelings of bigotry, but if these ideas are publicly condemned, they are much less likely to act on them. When these ideas are encouraged, it fans the flames of their hatred. That is what your GOP does as a systematic political strategy to gain votes.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:42 pmThat said, I am in favor of civil unions for same sex couples and I personally could live with same sex marriage so long as it is instituted with the consent of the people and not by the decree of some judge or court.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
I suggest a high school civics class — emphasis on protecting the minority from the majority. **sigh**
February 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pmI’m not referring to politicians, I’m referring to individuals.
Care to offer any evidence for a systematic “irrational hatred of homosexuals†on the Right?
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Attempting to enshrine bigotry against gays into the constitution?
BTW - I do not consider the belief that homosexual behavior is a sin to be equal to hatred….but I’m sure you do. Nor do I consider it hatred to wish to preserve marriage as it has always been; the union of a man and and a women. Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
ROTFL! Hateful people NEVER DO consider their HATE - HATRED!
That said, I am in favor of civil unions for same sex couples and I personally could live with same sex marriage so long as it is instituted with the consent of the people and not by the decree of some judge or court.
Now I’d better go before one of you calls me a Nazi.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Hitler never considered his concern about the unclean jew as hate either. And people like you, used to say the same thing about freeing the slaves… Bigots are all the same, you’re pathetic!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pmI think that you would be surprised to find that irrational hatred of homosexuals falls on both sides of the political spectrum.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
A 100 to 1 ratio isn’t really PROOF of this being RELEVANT! ROTFL!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pmhttp://online.logcabin.org/
Comment by good_golly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
WOW a group that your OWN POLITICIANS IGNORE, thanks for proving that your PARTY IS FULL OF BIGOTS! ROTFL!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:45 pmAnother point, Charles, about the corrosive effect of legal discrimination, often sought by your party: if people fear sanctions (for example a school teacher losing a job, or a soldier being discharged from the army), they are driven underground. They have to hide their sexual orientation. Why does this have a corrosive effect? When non-gay people learn that someone they know at work, at home, or socially is gay, it normalizes the behavior for them. They think “hey, Joe is a great guy, even though he is gay. Maybe gay people aren’t so bad after all.” It is a fact that bigotry diminishes when we are exposed to different people, whether they are gay, foreigners, or a different skin color.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm.
#68 Comment by Democrat Soldier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Read the entire article AND the comments. It is great!
Pastor Ken Hutcherson has a very large congregation beneath his belt. A year ago he got into hot H2O for renting a public school’s gymnasium as his church. He’s initiated several pro-family(read anti-gay) rallies that encourage discrimination against other minorities, especially gays. He helps himself to his hatred because he cloaks it in his robe of Faith.
.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pmI think we can all rejoice in knowing we are living through and witnessing the next significant step forward in the history of civil rights in the US. Sure many of us will make ill advised and inconsiderate statements at times but overall forward progress continues. I simple personal commitment to the impact of words as well as an awareness of one’s audience is all that is needed.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pmRight on, Ellen!!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pmCharles, you really don’t have a leg to stand on. Your party fans the flames of hatred and bigotry. It doesn’t matter whether the cynical politicians who do this hate gay people or not (after all, a LOT of Republican politicians and their staff are gay). They are encouraging those people who do hate gays to commit acts of violence against them, by normalizing the hatred with their political strategy.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pmVerbalKint,
Are you saying that because I don’t hate gays, I therefore should vote for higher taxes, gun controll, socialized healthcare, a weakened military and all the rest ?
I don’t hate gay people. I have many close friends who are gay. My little daughter’s babysitters are a lesbian couple whom I consider to be family.
I don’t have to vote for Barack Obama to prove anything to anyone.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pmCare to offer any evidence for a systematic “irrational hatred of homosexuals†on the Right?
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Are you serious?
http://findarticles.com/ p/ articles/ mi_m1295/ is_n3_v57/ ai_13510325
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ articles/ A23672-2004Nov3.html
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20031020/ireland
http://www.cafepress.com/ buy/ anti-gay+marriage/ republican
http://www.prospect.org/ cs/ articles?article=the_future_of_antigay_activism
That should do for now. Let me know if you need more links.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pmNow I’d better go before one of you calls me a Nazi.
Comment by Charles James Napier
We don’t need too, it’s a given.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pmThey are encouraging those people who do hate gays to commit acts of violence against them, by normalizing the hatred with their political strategy.
Comment by VerbalKint
————————–
Completely false.
Prove your accusation.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pm.
#71 Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
PRESERVE MARRIAGE…
… OUTLAW DIVORCE!
Leave gayness out of your hate equation to preserve your identity. Preserve it by outlawing it’s own demise… divorce! Gays aren’t destroying straight marriages… straights are doing it for themselves!
As far as equality goes, if gay marriage… er… same sex marriage, as you call it, can it hold legal muster if it is NOT supported by the courts or a judge? You aren’t for equality when you defend separate but equal ideology. Bigotry doesn’t wear well.
.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:55 pmAre you saying that because I don’t hate gays, I therefore should vote for higher taxes, gun controll, socialized healthcare, a weakened military and all the rest ?
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:53 pm
Easy, Chuckles, you’re getting straw all over the place! Did you even get any in that straw man you’re trying to build? Doesn’t look like it.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pmNow I’d better go before one of you calls me a Nazi.
Comment by Charles James Napier
A lesser person might call you stupid, a dumb ass, or maybe suggest you try to finish high school. Do you begin to see why you might be misunderstood?
February 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pmVerbalKint,
One more thing..
I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to serve openly in the armed forces, so long as the rules of conduct apply equally to everone.
Now I do have to go.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pmsocialized healthcare,
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:53 pm
Who said anything about socialized healthcare? Democrats don’t favor socialized health care. Are you claiming that Clinton or Obama is promoting socialized healthcare? If so, this claim is utterly false.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pmI’ve never understood why someone would hate a person simply because that person is homosexual…So many great and creative people have been homosexual throughout history.
It makes no sense to me.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
I don’t think it matters whether it is by birth or by choice. It may be some of each. The bottom line is that none of us should discriminate against anyone because he/she may be gay.
Comment by good_golly — February 29, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
Homosexuality is clearly biological - why would anyone CHOOSE to be part of a group that faces such bigotry?
Were either of my children to turn out gay, I would love them just the same. Everyone’s child deserves the same respect.
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
—————————————————
All three of the above posters have posted things here at TP in the past that I disagree with. All three have embraced conservative ideals that I oppose. And while I have no proof of how they vote, I would be willing to bet there are some GOP votes in their pasts.
Nevertheless, I agree with all of their statements I pasted above, and I gave each one of them a “recommend” because I believe they are well-stated.
Have we truly become so polarized in our society that we are limited to only two inflexible ideologies? And is it true that if you agree with Point A of an ideology then you must agree with Point B, Point C, Point D, etc.?
I will continue to praise good posts, no matter who writes them. Likewise, if I disagree with a post written by somebody I normally agree with, I will say so.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:00 pmdbadass,
Still upset about yesterday?
Look, I’m sorry I called you stupid…but you kept asking the same stupid question over and over.
Maybe you are not stupid but your question (which I answered the first time) was stupid.
So long.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:00 pmBrandon got the message that it’s so threatening so awful and so horrific that Larry would want to be his Valentine, that killing Larry seemed to be the right thing to do.
Why would Brandon feel threaten because Larry would want to be his Valentine?
Why would Brandon think killing Larry was the right thing to do?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmAre you saying that because I don’t hate gays, I therefore should vote for higher taxes, gun controll, socialized healthcare, a weakened military and all the rest ?
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:53 pm
In addition to your BOGUS claim about socialized medicine, your claim about a weakened military is ludicrous. Your party has all but DESTROYED military readiness by pursuing Bush’s ill-conceived, counter-productive, and flatly illegal adventure in Iraq.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmI will continue to praise good posts, no matter who writes them.
Comment by missmolly — February 29, 2008 @ 2:00 p
I, on the other hand, will condemn people for saying one thing, and doing another. This is the Republican party m.o.
I think you are being naive here, missmolly.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pmComment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
To be still upset would require first being upset. You understand the exact point I am making. It is okay to try to save face.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pmI will continue to praise good posts, no matter who writes them. Likewise, if I disagree with a post written by somebody I normally agree with, I will say so.
Comment by missmolly — February 29, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
Hear, hear, missmolly!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pmI won’t give a free ride to anyone who says they don’t personally hate gay people, but who at the same time won’t hold their own party accountable for frequently pandering to that hatred in others.
Hypocrisy matters!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:04 pmC’mon, Ralph! It’s not mere speculation. Some of the comments are absolutely disgusting and embarrassing. I often wonder what our gay commenters think of those types of comments.
Comment by Zooey — February 29, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
I would imagine that many of our gay commenters probably stay in the closet — “Democrat Soldier” being a rare exception. Who would want to reveal they are gay in a hostile environment?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pmI also repudiate every person who harbors hatred in their hearts towards homosexuals regardless of their political affiliation.
How’s that?
Comment by Charles James Napier
Not good enough. Many of the people that this troll supports are anti gay (like most of the Republican party). How about repudiating them. Then there are the religious “leaders” like Dobson and others who are rabidly anti-gay. How about repudiating them too.
I am afraid that this troll has stepped into a hole he is going to have a hard time digging himself out of.
Although I do appreciate his posting what he did if he really means it.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pmAre you saying that because I don’t hate gays, I therefore should vote for higher taxes, gun controll, socialized healthcare, a weakened military and all the rest ?
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:53 pm
Easy, Chuckles, you’re getting straw all over the place! Did you even get any in that straw man you’re trying to build? Doesn’t look like it.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
I dunno, Ralph. I don’t think that it is a straw man to question the validity of the statement that if you vote GOP you must hate gay people. There has been some very strong inference on this thread that that is the case. It is factually inaccurate.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pmWhy would Brandon feel threaten because Larry would want to be his Valentine?
Why would Brandon think killing Larry was the right thing to do?
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
Because Brandon was a kid in middle school, with a middle schooler’s intense focus on being accepted. An openly gay kid teasing him about being his valentine jeopardized that acceptance.
Because Brandon came from an abusive home and had been taught by either parents or friends that violence was an acceptable way to settle disputes.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pmI don’t think it matters whether it is by birth or by choice. It may be some of each. The bottom line is that none of us should discriminate against anyone because he/she may be gay.
Comment by good_golly
Wow, GiGi believes that gays should be allowed to get married. Good on you GiGi. Since you said something compassionate and that makes sense, I will address you directly.
Now, are you going to walk the walk?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:09 pmI don’t think that it is a straw man to question the validity of the statement that if you vote GOP you must hate gay people. There has been some very strong inference on this thread that that is the case.
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
THIS argument is a straw man, Keltoi. I have repeatedly argued above that it is IRRELEVANT whether or not an individual Republican hates gay people. My problem is that the party EXPLOITS this hatred in others for political gain. This is reprehensible, and actually WORSE than just personally hating gay people. But there is more to the story: the Republican party thrives on promoting hatred in general: hatred of blacks, hatred of Mexicans, hatred of Muslims, hatred of gay people. It is the fear and smear party, and right now they are saying utterly reprehensible things about Barack Obama, then trotting out a few officials to “condemn” what their own foot soldier thugs are doing on their behalf.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:09 pmI think you are being naive here, missmolly.
Comment by VerbalKint — February 29, 2008 @ 2:03 pm
I probably am. Idealistic, too. However, I don’t agree with my party on every single thing, either. This doesn’t make me a hypocrite, it just means I am a person who thinks for myself. And then I vote for the party/candidate who most closely represents my ideals, even it’s not a perfect match.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pmWhy would Brandon think killing Larry was the right thing to do?
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
Did he read some dumb shit in some book that claimed this was a good idea or was it that he figured after eating the shellfish it didn’t really matter anymore
February 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pmComment by VerbalKint — February 29, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
Well said.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:12 pmThere are half a million dead civilians in Iraq, and many Republicans are perfectly comfortable with this fact because their party has done such a thorough job of demonizing and dehumanizing people, particularly brown-skinned people of the Muslim faith. There would be outrage in the party if those people were white Christians.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pmWhy would Brandon feel threaten because Larry would want to be his Valentine?
Why would Brandon think killing Larry was the right thing to do?
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
Oh I don’t know, maybe he was fearful, and influenced by people with a “holier than thou” attitude — like you?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pmAre you saying that because I don’t hate gays, I therefore should vote for higher taxes, gun controll, socialized healthcare, a weakened military and all the rest ?
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:53 pm
I dunno, Ralph. I don’t think that it is a straw man to question the validity of the statement that if you vote GOP you must hate gay people. There has been some very strong inference on this thread that that is the case. It is factually inaccurate.
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Jeezus, Keltoi, you’re smarter than that, aren’t you?
Among the many little straw men (let’s call them “straw GI Joes” that Chuckles has tried to erect here are the following:
1) that “because I don’t hate gays, I therefore should vote for higher taxes”
2) gun controll
3) socialized healthcare
4) a weakened military and all the rest ?”
Your claim that if you vote GOP you must hate gay people isn’t really a straw man, just a hyperbolic restatement of the original dispute. But each one of Chuckles’ distortions of the right-wing stereotype of a Democratic platform is a straw man, as is the overarching insinuation that the original poster was saying such a thing.
They weren’t really artful straw men, either. Like the kind where you guys use a paper bag for the head, y’know?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pmI appreciate your optimism, missmolly. I can tell that you are a good person from your comments. If everyone was like you, the world would be a much better place. That goes for most of you here.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pmI dunno, Ralph. I don’t think that it is a straw man to question the validity of the statement that if you vote GOP you must hate gay people. There has been some very strong inference on this thread that that is the case. It is factually inaccurate.
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
It is factually inaccurate, yes, and ignores the spectrum of opinions in both parties. But I think you’d have to agree that the preponderance of voices speaking anti-gay rhetoric are on the right side of the aisle. They may not be representative of conservatives or Republicans as a whole - they may not even be the majority or the right, but through sheer volume they drown out the voices of tolerance and moderation. It’s a phenomenon called aspect dominance, and it’s something we can all be fooled by from time to time.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:18 pmI dunno, Ralph. I don’t think that it is a straw man to question the validity of the statement that if you vote GOP you must hate gay people. There has been some very strong inference on this thread that that is the case. It is factually inaccurate.
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Tell that to the individuals and families that are victimized by GOP hate legislation against them. I hate to tell you, but it IS a REALITY that you SUPPORT THIS HATE whether you BELIEVE IT SHOULD HAPPEN OR NOW. Your VOTE for the GOP is a VOTE FOR THE HATE - PERIOD!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pmComment by Southern Man — February 29, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Oh please, don’t hold yourself above anyone here.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pmPosters like Dr. Matt and a few others are guilty of this. They give very juvenille responses when threatened. I always find whenever I have been accused of being gay, it’s the accuser who has problems with other people, no matter their preference.
Comment by Southern Man — February 29, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
ROTFL!! Ironic, coming from a BIGOT LIKE YOU! Just because you are SELF LOATHING, and use THAT as your EXCUSE FOR HATE, don’t call it HATE when OTHERS POINT IT OUT - TARD!! ROTFL!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pmI dunno, Ralph. I don’t think that it is a straw man to question the validity of the statement that if you vote GOP you must hate gay people. There has been some very strong inference on this thread that that is the case. It is factually inaccurate.
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Keltoi, It is pure straw. It’s pure straw because Charles and far too many people that vote Republican aren’t telling their party that the gay issue IS NOT AN ISSUE. We have three people in this thread that are clearly Republican and yet all three have no issue with sexual orientation and yet the Republican party continually brings the issue up at every election. Isn’t it time for you three to do something about it? The Republican’s seem to think that their “base” requires them to interfere in peoples sexual orientation when the reality is they could expand their “base” by abandoning this issue. (same goes for abortion) For the love of humanity get into the 21st century. It would only help the Republicans to dump the religious far right.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pmThey are encouraging those people who do hate gays to commit acts of violence against them, by normalizing the hatred with their political strategy.
Comment by VerbalKint
————————–
Completely false.
Prove your accusation.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
COMPLETELY TRUE FACT, you are a WILLING ACCOMPLICE as your BELIEF that HATING IS OK as long as you have a RELIGIOUS REASON TO DO SO! You share a LOT in common with Osama! ;)
One more thing..
I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to serve openly in the armed forces, so long as the rules of conduct apply equally to everone.
Now I do have to go.
Comment by Charles James Napier — February 29, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
ROTFL! Says the TARD who’s PARTY doesn’t even want to investigate RAPE AND ABUSE AGAINST WOMEN in the Armed Forces! You people are PIGS!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pmWondered how long before this one was posted.
Oh I don’t know, maybe he was fearful, and influenced by people with a “holier than thou†attitude — like you?
Comment by Zooey — February 29, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Why not a real attempt at answering the question? It was real question. How do these things happen?
In the last week the news here carried a story about an 18 year old Senior – a white boy for those who are interested – raping at 14 year old Freshman girl. They were on a school bus with about 60 other students. The video on the bus recorded much of what happen. The boy forced the girl against the bus an proceeded to digitally penetrate her. All reports indicate that the two didn’t know each other.
What happened? Did this guy want to end his life just a few months from graduation?
Was he overly stimulated?
Did the evolutionary juices kick in?
Did he do that because “God made him that way?â€
Did it just happen?
What could have possibly prevented this? bitblt’s ans: He would have to have had a profound respect for the girl.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pmAh bitblt is here to show everyone how STUPID REPUBLICANS REALLY ARE!! ROTFL!!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:24 pmWhat could have possibly prevented this? bitblt’s ans: He would have to have had a profound respect for the girl.
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Now you know what the IRAQIS feel like! You’ve created a CULTURE that HONORS TAKING WHATEVER YOU WANT, and you WONDER why YOUNG PEOPLE FOLLOW YOUR EXAMPLE? ROTFL, you REPUBLICANS ARE DUMB!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pmHe would have to have had a profound respect for the girl.
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
And this would be manifested how? Please say it has nothing to do with any crazy stuff
February 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pmComment by Zooey — February 29, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Why not a real attempt at answering the question? It was real question. How do these things happen?
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Why pretend that Zooey was the only poster to respond to your question?
Why respond only to Zooey and not to others, myself included, who actually offered an answer?
Or were you just trolling for “gotcha” material?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:28 pmBut each one of Chuckles’ distortions of the right-wing stereotype of a Democratic platform is a straw man, as is the overarching insinuation that the original poster was saying such a thing.
They weren’t really artful straw men, either. Like the kind where you guys use a paper bag for the head, y’know?
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
Touche, I was not addressing his run down of Democratic platform planks but was looking at the thread topic point only.
And Verbalkint, I have worked my entire life to keep my heart 100% free of hate, even when tempted to hate individuals who had directly wronged me and harmed me. Exploiting fear of “the other” is a political tactic as old as democracy; whenever it is done it should be condemned.
All of the groups you say the GOP hates and fear mongers against also are exploited by the Dems in counter-point. “Vote for us or there’ll be nooses hanging from every tree in every town in America.” (Not a direct quote, an illustration). Like a lot of things we argue about here, it boils down to which party sucks more. When either of them use underhanded tactics - and last time I checked, Hillary is a Democrat and has fear mongered Obama’s African roots and Muslim name - it sucks and should be condemned.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmAre you claiming that Clinton or Obama is promoting socialized healthcare? If so, this claim is utterly false.
Comment by VerbalKint
Unfortunately. Actually, Obama has often stated that if he was starting from scratch he would design a single-payer government run health care system. His plan now deals with the reality of what he has to work with. It would be very difficult to tell every health care company “sorry, as of tomorrow you are out of business and all your employees are out of work”. I’m hoping that Obama can take the profit out of health care and all the health care companies like Blue Cross can become non-profits used to help administer the program for the government.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmbitblt’s ans: He would have to have had a profound respect for the girl.
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Sorry bitblt but I need you to clarify. Are you saying he wouldn’t have done it if he had profound respect for the girl?
How about a small shred of respect? It seems he showed exactly zero respect.
If your point is that people don’t respect people, then I agree with you 100%.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pmOops, ralph’s bad — he responded to bitbutt by speaking of himself in the first person.
Apparently, bitbutt doesn’t care for that linguistic construction.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pmIt would only help the Republicans to dump the religious far right.
Comment by Nature Rules — February 29, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
Boy howdy. Alas, I do not control them…perhaps if they hate McCain enough they WILL leave and form a Third Party. That’d be a scary damn party, alrighty!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:33 pmAll of the groups you say the GOP hates and fear mongers against also are exploited by the Dems in counter-point. “Vote for us or there’ll be nooses hanging from every tree in every town in America.â€
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
Your point?
Are you actually trying to suggest that, in offering themselves as an alternative to bigotry and fear-mongering, Democrats are somehow as responsible for its exploitation?
Wow, Keltoi. please tell me that’s not the argument you’re trying float here.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:33 pmComment by ralph the wonder llama — February 29, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
bitblt would put these answers in the very plausible and perhaps even likely category.
But – killing someone. Had this kid Brandon, “…gone over the video game edge?â€
An openly gay kid teasing him about being his valentine jeopardized that acceptance.
Could Larry have been trying to embarrass Brandon – intentionally?
February 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pmThere has been some very strong inference on this thread that that is the case. It is factually inaccurate.
Comment by Keltoi
I think the inference that has been made here is not that if you vote Republican you must hate gays. The inference has been made is that because the Republicans promulgate hate in so many ways it seriously impacts the judgment of the people who are Republican. That hate is easily transferred onto gay people because they are a convenient target of this hatred.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:36 pmAll of the groups you say the GOP hates and fear mongers against also are exploited by the Dems in counter-point. “Vote for us or there’ll be nooses hanging from every tree in every town in America.†(Not a direct quote, an illustration). Like a lot of things we argue about here, it boils down to which party sucks more. When either of them use underhanded tactics - and last time I checked, Hillary is a Democrat and has fear mongered Obama’s African roots and Muslim name - it sucks and should be condemned.
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
ROTFL! I can see you’re keeping HATE out of your HEART /SNARK!
You mean they’re being DEFENDED by Democrats, instead of ATTACKED by Republicans and that’s USING THEM? Yeah, like giving people civil rights - BIG EXPLOITATION!!!!
Wow, you’re a STUPID POS!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pmAn openly gay kid teasing him about being his valentine jeopardized that acceptance.
Could Larry have been trying to embarrass Brandon – intentionally?
Comment by bitblt — February 29, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Could you be trying to DEFLECT from YOUR BIGOTRY - INTENTIONALLY?
ROTFL!
February 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pmThis has been an excellent thread. It has had the air of “being in the same room” that is normally missing in blog threads.
Even if the hatred takes it back over now, at least the tone of the exchanges has changed for the better……
It was funny to watch the trolls contribute, whether they genuinly intended to or not…
some good Karma earned here today.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pmBoy howdy. Alas, I do not control them…perhaps if they hate McCain enough they WILL leave and form a Third Party. That’d be a scary damn party, alrighty!
Comment by Keltoi — February 29, 2008 @ 2:33 pm
Or you could vote for the party that ISN’T SPREADING THIS HATE - an OBVIOUS ACT that ESCAPES YOUR PATHETIC LITTLE TARDED BRAIN! ;)
February 29th, 2008 at 2:39 pm