Federal agents ’secretly’ profile immigrants.
By on Mar 4th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Federal agents ’secretly’ profile immigrants.
According to a 2006 Immigration and Customs Enforcement memo obtained by McClatchy, the Bush administration has “secretly established profiling techniques to screen immigrants based on their nationalities, protocols that critics charge encourage the unjustified targeting of Muslims.” After 9/11, “federal agents detained 1,200 mainly Muslim men and separately required visa-holders from predominately Muslim or Arab countries to be fingerprinted and registered in a database.”
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After 9/11, “federal agents detained 1,200 mainly Muslim men and separately required visa-holders from predominately Muslim or Arab countries to be fingerprinted and registered in a database.â€
“Land of the Free, Home of the Brave”
Riiight.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:37 amI wonder which group they target for profiling first – the tired, the poor, or the huddled masses yearning to breathe free?
My bet is on the huddled masses – they gotta be up to something.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:38 amIf we happen to hurt somebody’s feelings through effective profiling
Duh, it’s more than hurting someone’s feelings, dipsh*t.
It’s spreading fear and hatred which will only bring about more terrrorism.
But that’s the MO of the wingtards, create terrorism for political gain and control.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:44 amThose who are willing to sacrifice Liberty for a little Security deserve neither.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:47 amComment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 10:41 am
when conservatives get angry and frustrated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_city_bombing
(morning gg, ready for another day of work? hey, who won the “baseball game” last night? did you go with a friend? do you have any friends? oh that’s right, you’re a conservative… that answers that question!)
March 4th, 2008 at 10:47 amIf we happen to hurt somebody’s feelings through effective profiling, that’s bad, but not as bad as if a planeload or building full of people were murdered.
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 10:41 am
And I’m sure you would say exactly the same thing if YOU were the one detained because you fit a certain profile.
If we were truly going to profile based upon the alleged perpetrators of 9/11, we would save our harshest scrutiny for citizens of Saudi Arabia, because most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals. Are we doing this? Or are we just using profiling to exercise our bigotry of Muslims in general, regardless of where they come from?
March 4th, 2008 at 10:51 amDuh, gigi:
They had all types of intel around them FOR MONTHS and they couldn’t prevent 2 buildings full of people from being murdered. What do you think this will prevent?
Like closing the barn door after the horse ran away. Actually more like a dog and pony show.
Repugs couldn’t get laid in a whore house with a fist full of $50s. And they haven’t prevented a single act of terrorism with all this illegal surveillance.
Absolutely appalling what the American people are being duped into thinking is happening in this country.
Keepin’ us safe – don’t make me laugh.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:51 amComment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 10:41 am
Uh huh….yeah, people who want to ram airplanes into buildings go to a lot of trouble to get here, and stay here, legally.
Blow it out your ass, scumbag.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:55 amWhat about a day care center in a government building in Oklahama City, the doctors and nurses at an abortion clinic in Pensacola, Florida, or the fans at the Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia? The problem with racial profiling is that it blames one culture for all terrorism, while the reality is that even in just the last couple decades we have seen terrorist acts carried out by all sorts of different people. Getting the fingerprints from every muslim who enters the country would do nothing to help figure out most of the terrorists attacks in this country.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:57 amBlow it out your ass, scumbag.
Comment by Zooey — March 4, 2008 @ 10:55 am
be nice to gg.
she doesn’t mean to be a nazi.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:57 amRemember not all muslims are terrorists…
… but since all terrorists, islamofascists, islamic extremists, radical jihadists, bin Ladins, sunni extremists, mulla Omars, muslim antisemites, talibans, shia sectarians, radical Shia clerks, islamic insurgents, Hizbullahists, Hamas-activists, Islamic Jihadists, Ahmadinejad, Palestinian stone-throwers, and Iranian Revolutionary Guard speedboatdrivers are muslims FBI must target muslims.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:58 amIf we happen to hurt somebody’s feelings through effective profiling, that’s bad, but not as bad as if a planeload or building full of people were murdered.
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 10:41 am
Every day about 1,700 Americans die of heart disease. That’s about four fully-loaded Boeing 777 planeloads.
1,500 die of cancer. That’s three Boeing 747s.
350 die of lower respiratory diseases. That’s a bit more than an Airbus A330.
70 die of cirrhosis of the liver. That’s an Embraer 175.
You don’t seem so worried about these planeloads of people lost every day from conditions that are often quite preventable – no profiling needed!
March 4th, 2008 at 10:59 amTastguy, while I think your comment is right on the mark I do have to quibble with one point. I think it has been well demonstrated that Republicans can get laid in a whorehouse, or a limo service, or an airport restroom.
March 4th, 2008 at 10:59 amMan….can anyone here admit that yes, maybe it makes sense to put a special emphasis on would be immigrants from Arab/Muslim countries in an effort to intercept terrorists? I read the article….is it totally crazy to scrutinize a particular segment of foreign nationals seeking to enter the US when a particular group is exclusively responsible for terrorist attacks?
March 4th, 2008 at 10:59 amComment by fletc3her — March 4, 2008 @ 10:57 am
good questions fletch. but you should know that gg never comments on her friends work at oklahoma city.
hey i can’t even get her to tell us who won the baseball game last night.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:00 amYou don’t seem so worried about these planeloads of people lost every day from conditions that are often quite preventable – no profiling needed!
Comment by toasterhead — March 4, 2008 @ 10:59 am
Pure sophistry, toasterhead.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:02 amComment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 10:59 am
ooops sorry gg, missed that one.
kind of early in the season for baseball, isn’t it?
(mlb just started pre-season games)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:02 amPure sophistry, toasterhead.
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 11:02 am
Thanks! I try… :)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:03 amComment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 10:59 am
ps – oh yeah, does your son know what you do for a living?
thanks!
March 4th, 2008 at 11:03 amwhen a particular group is exclusively responsible for terrorist attacks?
Geee (wind blows out my a$$),
Thanks for reminding us that Timothy McVeigh is an Arab.
(stupid concern troll)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:05 amComment by fletc3her — March 4, 2008 @ 10:59 am
Yeah, you have a point, BUT……. where I went wrong was that I was mistakenly thinking of heterosexual sex!! That’s what they can’t seem to achieve.
Oh, and by the way I live and work in NYC – 1 of the acknowledged terror targets – and nobody around here is walking around afraid like your political party would have you believe.
Got a better chance of getting hit by lightning TWICE than being involved in a terrorist action.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:07 am2nd & 3rd paragraphs were aimed at gigi.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:08 amWe are all being profiled and data-based, every one of us, regardless of race, creed, or political persuasion.
Somehow a car dealer got my cell phone number from my browsing of auto review websites.
I gave no personally identifiable info in my browsing, the caller admitted getting my number off the internet, when I asked how, and who they were, she hung up.
The number the call came from was a “restricted” number…
TIA (Total Information Awareness) the brainchild of Admiral John Poindexter (anyone still remember him? Ronald Reagans NSA, convicted in Iran Contra…)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:09 amis alive and well, and now we know why the telecoms want immunity from prosecution………
Thanks for reminding us that Timothy McVeigh is an Arab.
(stupid concern troll)
Comment by DieNowForPeace — March 4, 2008 @ 11:05 am
Guess what? After Ruby Ridge and Oklahoma City, the militia groups that spawned McVeigh WERE profiled and infiltrated by the FBI. I’ll bet everyone here was real upset that white guys from red states were surveilled because of their association.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:10 amPure sophistry, toasterhead.
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 11:02 am
Thanks! I try… :)
Comment by toasterhead — March 4, 2008 @ 11:03 am
You scamp :)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:11 amgood questions fletch. but you should know that gg never comments on her friends work at oklahoma city.
Comment by joe cantwell — March 4, 2008 @ 11:00 am
You have to remember that it’s only “terrorism” when a Muslim does it. Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, and other American citizens who commit acts of violence for political purposes and to incite fear and intimidation are merely expressing their opinions, I suppose.
Therefore, when the righties declare “all terrorists are Muslims” it’s only because they have defined the term that way.
If you were to add up all the acts of violence with deathly intent in the United States so far this decade, acts perpetrated by Muslims would only make a small dent. I have never heard of a Muslim conducting a school shooting, for example.
Yet we spend far more time worrying about Muslims entering our country than we do about criminals and disturbed individuals already here.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:11 amTimothy McVeigh was an agnostic, anti-government, drug abusing nutcase.
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:05 am
the very definition of a conservative.
thanks gg.
(your son knows what you do for a living? yes? no?)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:12 amAs Fascism is, Fascism does.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:12 amComment by missmolly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:11 am
Exactly!
March 4th, 2008 at 11:13 amHigh school joe. We are 9 games into the regular Spring season already, and have three baseball seasons per year in Florida. Spring (Feb – May), Summer (June – Aug.), and Fall ball (Sept. – Nov).
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:09 am
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are you in florida, gg?
are you retired?
do you know “reverend” james kennedy?
March 4th, 2008 at 11:15 amthank the gods for McCLATCHY !
March 4th, 2008 at 11:15 amGuess what? After Ruby Ridge and Oklahoma City, the militia groups that spawned McVeigh WERE profiled and infiltrated by the FBI. I’ll bet everyone here was real upset that white guys from red states were surveilled because of their association.
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 11:10 am
Did the FBI profile all white guys from red states? I don’t recall them all being fingerprinted and added to a database.
No, the FBI investigated specific armed militia groups. There’s a difference.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:17 amthree baseball seasons per year in Florida.
C’mon rising oceans, we really don’t need Florida anymore. It’s done it’s job of attracting the lowest common denominators, now time to drown them all…
March 4th, 2008 at 11:20 amComment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:16 am
so gg if you’re in florida then you must know marty glickman (aka “republican marty”) right?
March 4th, 2008 at 11:24 amI doubt if the Eco-Terrorists of the ELF that struck again yesterday were Muslim.
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:16 am
This one is dumber than a bag of hammers.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:25 amNever met him. In case you haven’t heard, he died last year.
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:19 am
did you send flowers?
winding down from what?
March 4th, 2008 at 11:26 amComment by Zooey — March 4, 2008 @ 11:25 am
when gg start losing an argument she changes the subject (or leaves for one of her son’s baseball games.)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:28 amgigi, maybe if you spent more time doing your wifely duties, your hubby would stop calling me.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:29 amWhy not register all muslims entering America as potential terrorists and require them to report their whereabouts to federal or local lawenforcement once a day?
How about on all Christian or American hollidays make it illegal for muslims to enter the US because of the increased risk of terroristattacks on those days?
Where’s the limit?
March 4th, 2008 at 11:30 amwinding down from what?
Comment by joe cantwell
catatonia
March 4th, 2008 at 11:37 amcatatonia
Comment by Nevar — March 4, 2008 @ 11:37 am
thus the nurses.
assisted living.
gg, would you like a magazine?
March 4th, 2008 at 11:39 amI read the article….is it totally crazy to scrutinize a particular segment of foreign nationals seeking to enter the US when a particular group is exclusively responsible for terrorist attacks?
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 10:59 am
Yes, I think it is.
Terrorism is a technique, and it’s a technique just as likely to be used by Christian rebel groups in Uganda and Maoist rebel groups in Nepal and Marxist rebel groups in Colombia and displaced farmers in West Bengal and Basque separatists in Spain and anti-globalization groups in Seattle as it is by radical Muslims. An Interpol report last year found that the vast majority of terrorist attacks that happened in Europe in 2006 were not carried out by Muslims.
If we’re really serious about stopping terrorism from reaching our people, it would seem ludicrous to focus on only one group when there are so many others with a gripe against the United States.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:44 amgg, would you like a magazine?
Comment by joe cantwell
nothing too stimulating, mind you, she could get all worked up and go catatonic on us…….
March 4th, 2008 at 11:44 amBlow it out your ass, scumbag.
Comment by Zooey — March 4, 2008 @ 10:55 am
Time to switch to decaf, Z…
March 4th, 2008 at 11:46 am>>You have to remember that it’s only “terrorism†when a Muslim does it. Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, and other American citizens who commit acts of violence for political purposes and to incite fear and intimidation are merely expressing their opinions, I suppose.
No. They are terrorists.
>>If you were to add up all the acts of violence with deathly intent in the United States so far this decade, acts perpetrated by Muslims would only make a small dent. I have never heard of a Muslim conducting a school shooting, for example.
This is one step removed from Toasterheads argument. School shootings are not terrorist acts, they have no political agenda, they are crimes.
BTW, I work at a high school and we profile the bejesus out of kids who fit the school shooter affect. Schools have been totally redesigned since Columbine, as have counseling programs. Freedom of speech has been severely curtailed – any kid who even mentions guns or violence is pounced on.
And rightly so – a threat emerged, a response was developed.
>>Yet we spend far more time worrying about Muslims entering our country than we do about criminals and disturbed individuals already here.
Comment by missmolly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:11 am
I would highly dispute that assertion. Are you suggesting the total amount spent on all state, local and federal law enforcement is exceeded by counter-terrorism? I’d have to see some proof of that.
I always respect your input, missmolly – can you address my question in 16? Does it make any sense to you that we have the same screening process in place for Finnish nationals and Saudi nationals? It doesn’t make any sense to me, but I could be wrong.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:48 am“… when a particular group is exclusively responsible for terrorist attacks?”
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 10:59 am
McVeigh… Nichols… Rudolph…
Hookay… let’s start rounding up the Micks and the WASPs….
March 4th, 2008 at 11:48 amComment by Southern Man — March 4, 2008 @ 11:45 am
ladies and gentlemen, conservatism’s biggest idiot…
southern man!
(do another trick)
March 4th, 2008 at 11:48 amDid the FBI profile all white guys from red states? I don’t recall them all being fingerprinted and added to a database.
No, the FBI investigated specific armed militia groups. There’s a difference.
Comment by toasterhead — March 4, 2008 @ 11:17 am
True – but if I am correct, this program is directed at foreign nationals entering the US, not US citizens – that is a difference, too.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:50 amHookay… let’s start rounding up the Micks and the WASPs….
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 4, 2008 @ 11:48 am
while we’re at it let’s round up the all conservatives so we can protect our children, for the love of god!
http://exitstage-left.blogspot.com/2007/07/republican-sexual-deviants.html
March 4th, 2008 at 11:51 amshe could get all worked up and go catatonic on us…….
Comment by Nevar — March 4, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Catatonic is lifeless and frozen.
Perhaps you were looking for “psychotic”…
March 4th, 2008 at 11:51 amAnd the livestock, joe… don’t forget the livestock. Perhaps we will finally be able to buy some virgin wool in this country again.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:53 amThings must be slow at The Zoo. -crickets chirping-
Comment by Southern Man — March 4, 2008 @ 11:50 am
“-crickets chirping-”?
c’mon sm, admit it… you made that up all by yourself, didn’t you? you old wordsmith you!
March 4th, 2008 at 11:53 amIf you were a terrorist, and wanted to attack America, what rules would make your job easier to be one?
Comment by Southern Man
Everything the current administration promotes.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:54 amFear, prejudice, greed, bigotry, exploitation. More fear mongering.
Then just kick back and let America cluster itself into a quivering flock of sheep who do everything their corporate masters dictate.
gg, have you gone to another “baseball game”?
March 4th, 2008 at 11:54 amPerhaps you were looking for “psychoticâ€â€¦
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Hardly something one has to look for around here……..
March 4th, 2008 at 11:56 amAn Interpol report last year found that the vast majority of terrorist attacks that happened in Europe in 2006 were not carried out by Muslims.
Comment by toasterhead — March 4, 2008 @ 11:44 am
If I’m not mistaken, there are a frightening number of Neo-Nazi “incidents” in Europe every year, practically daily…
I don’t know if it’s true now, but 10, 12 years ago, the leading perveyor of Neo-Nazi literature to the world was… the US.
(not the “US”, officially, just which country the biggest % came from…)
And it’s not like Christian video game makers preach killing the unconverted or anythin… oh wait… never mind.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:00 pmHardly something one has to look for around here……..
Comment by Nevar — March 4, 2008 @ 11:56 am
True… it’s more than willing to come and find you…
March 4th, 2008 at 12:00 pmI always respect your input, missmolly – can you address my question in 16? Does it make any sense to you that we have the same screening process in place for Finnish nationals and Saudi nationals? It doesn’t make any sense to me, but I could be wrong.
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 11:48 am
No — even I can see the rationale for screening Saudi nationals more closely than Finnish nationals if it was Saudis who executed a horrific attack on one of our country’s cities. However, we need to realistically accept that most Saudis don’t have terrorism on their minds, and a byproduct of tarring them all with the same brush will be some animosity toward us by them.
I remember in the early 80’s how afraid everyone was of AIDS. And with some good reason — it was a deadly disease that we didn’t know much about at that time. However, gays were routinely profiled and discriminated against because of this fear — particularly by the medical establishment.
Then the medical and dental establishments hit on the best solution of all — they quit profiling and adopted the practice of treating EVERY patient as if they had AIDS. When I go to the dentist, my dentist and his assistant protect themselves as if I have radioactive germs. But I don’t feel insulted because I know they treat everyone this way.
Maybe we need to take a page from this book and treat everyone entering this country as if they are a potential terrorist. Fingerprint everyone and put everyone into a database. After all, the terrorists aren’t likely to send somebody over who “fits a profile” now, are they? That would be pretty stupid of them.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:05 pmWhy not register all muslims entering America as potential terrorists and require them to report their whereabouts to federal or local lawenforcement once a day?
How about on all Christian or American hollidays make it illegal for muslims to enter the US because of the increased risk of terroristattacks on those days?
Where’s the limit?
Comment by galmud — March 4, 2008 @ 11:30 am
Ah, the slippery slope argument, a proven invalid.
The idea that you can’t do anything because it is possible to do too much doesn’t hold up.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:06 pmAn Interpol report last year found that the vast majority of terrorist attacks that happened in Europe in 2006 were not carried out by Muslims.
If we’re really serious about stopping terrorism from reaching our people, it would seem ludicrous to focus on only one group when there are so many others with a gripe against the United States.
Comment by toasterhead — March 4, 2008 @ 11:44 am
How many Basque bombings were there in the US last year? And do you really think the Spanish don’t profile Basques?
Look, when the militia freaks were perceived to be a threat, we didn’t shy away from going after them. SOME degree of common sense would be appropriate here.
Also, McVeigh killed 160, Rudolph…three or four? Domestic terrorism is not as great a threat as Islamic terrorism. I also know of no Maoist or Marxist terror attacks launched on the US by foreign nationals. Our deisre to be PC should not blind us to the fact that AQ draws its strength from an identifiable group, and maybe we should put extra resources and screening procedures in place to scrutinize that group, that is all I am saying. And again, these are foreigners with no claim to Constitutional protections.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:13 pmAlso, McVeigh killed 160, Rudolph…three or four?
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
why don’t you share your cool, cynical analysis with the parent’s of the children mcveigh and nichols (you forgot him) murdered?
because you’re making me sick, herr doktor.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:22 pmYet we spend far more time worrying about Muslims entering our country than we do about criminals and disturbed individuals already here.
Comment by missmolly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:11 am
I would highly dispute that assertion. Are you suggesting the total amount spent on all state, local and federal law enforcement is exceeded by counter-terrorism? I’d have to see some proof of that.
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 11:48 am
Actually, I wasn’t speaking so much about money and law enforcement energy as I was about media time and energy (as well as emotional energy expended by the American public). Whenever our leaders need to ramp up fear in order to maintain political control, it’s always something along the line of “we’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here” or “we don’t want terrorists marching down Main Street USA” or “we can’t let the terrorists win” — and then the various media take that ball and run with it. The end result is a heightened fear level against scary brown people who worship differently from most of us. Much more than we are afraid of crazed gunmen, drunk drivers, and disturbed teenagers.
That’s what I meant when I said what I did.
State and local law enforcement agencies are to be commended for the work they do anticipating and preventing ALL kinds of deadly violence, regardless of which kind is getting the hype.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:23 pmOur deisre to be PC should not blind us to the fact that AQ draws its strength from an identifiable group, and maybe we should put extra resources and screening procedures in place to scrutinize that group.
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
You have a point, but Al Qaeda doesn’t mean all Muslims. It doesn’t even mean most Muslims. Just as the Aryan Brotherhood doesn’t represent most caucasian Americans.
If somebody comes through with an Al Qaeda membership card though — I agree that person should be detained and questioned.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:26 pmHow many Basque bombings were there in the US last year? And do you really think the Spanish don’t profile Basques?
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
In fact, we profile terrorists, not basques. Doing anything else would be counterproductive. Adding hay to the haystack makes more difficult to find the pin.
Also, McVeigh killed 160, Rudolph…three or four? Domestic terrorism is not as great a threat as Islamic terrorism. I also know of no Maoist or Marxist terror attacks launched on the US by foreign nationals. Our deisre to be PC should not blind us to the fact that AQ draws its strength from an identifiable group, and maybe we should put extra resources and screening procedures in place to scrutinize that group, that is all I am saying. And again, these are foreigners with no claim to Constitutional protections.
In the news: yesterday, two more shootings in the USA. Oh, the lovely 2nd ammendment…
March 4th, 2008 at 12:28 pmIn the news: yesterday, two more shootings in the USA. Oh, the lovely 2nd ammendment…
Comment by Evil Spaniard — March 4, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
Again, a red herring to the true argument. Crime is crime.
BTW, are there lots of ethinc non-Basques who commit terrorist acts in the name of Basque seperatism?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:32 pmProbably like all the Finns who commit terrorist acts in the name of Allah?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:34 pmMan….can anyone here admit that yes, maybe it makes sense to put a special emphasis on would be immigrants from Arab/Muslim countries in an effort to intercept terrorists? I read the article….is it totally crazy to scrutinize a particular segment of foreign nationals seeking to enter the US when a particular group is exclusively responsible for terrorist attacks?
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 10:59 am
It’s not crazy Keltoi. It’s common sense! They are laughing at us. Play devils advocate with yourself for a minute. If you were a terrorist, and wanted to attack America, what rules would make your job easier to be one?
Comment by Southern Man
They are laughing at you alright SM but not for the reasons you stated. Go ahead an keep underestimating the real dangers like this and we will have more problems. What would you do if they were smart enough to not use someone who looked so Arab/Muslim. It’s really a waste of time unless you really think they are just dumb…..like you……yep they are laughing at you alright.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:34 pmIn the news: yesterday, two more shootings in the USA. Oh, the lovely 2nd ammendment…
Comment by Evil Spaniard — March 4, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
Again, a red herring to the true argument. Crime is crime.
Oh? Why a red herring? Why not profile permanently everyone who buys a weapon (and specially the “collectors” who buy many weapons), and specially those of the NRA? They’re potentially dangerous, with far more evidence that a random muslim.
Why not? Oh, I know, a lot of the NRA members are Republicans. Personnal responsability, weapons are only tools… the usual red herrings of the Republican weapon lovers.
BTW, are there lots of ethinc non-Basques who commit terrorist acts in the name of Basque seperatism?
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
Again, you lose the focus. We focus in terrorists, not basques, simply because a majority of basques aren’t terrorists.
An example for you, and dare to call it “red herring”: in the 11/3 train bombings in Madrid, the main provider of explosives was… a spanish lowlife who stealed it from a mine.
So, following your logic, we must profile not every muslim coming to our country, but every spanish. A complete waste of time.
You’re stupid.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:41 pmIn fact, we profile terrorists, not basques. Doing anything else would be counterproductive. Adding hay to the haystack makes more difficult to find the pin.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — March 4, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
Exactly.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:46 pm>>Oh? Why a red herring? Why not profile permanently everyone who buys a weapon (and specially the “collectors†who buy many weapons), and specially those of the NRA? They’re potentially dangerous, with far more evidence that a random muslim.
Try to understand: in America, the Second Amendment allows citizens to own guns. It is completely unrelated to foreign nationals attempting to enter the U.S., and it also applies equally to Democrats and Republicans.
I imagine Franco was a big gun control supporter though….
>>You’re stupid.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — March 4, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
Wow, you really got me on that one!
March 4th, 2008 at 1:12 pm‘BTW, I work at a high school…”
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 11:48 am
OMG, It’s allowed to be around children.
As long as it’s mopping the floor and not allowed to pass on any of it’s ideas to the kids I guess that’s ok?
March 4th, 2008 at 1:26 pmTry to understand: in America, the Second Amendment allows citizens to own guns. It is completely unrelated to foreign nationals attempting to enter the U.S., and it also applies equally to Democrats and Republicans.
I imagine Franco was a big gun control supporter though….
Oh, I understand it perfectly… it’s an outdated ammendment, written when good old WASPs were massacrating indians, and pursuing evaded blacks from plantations. Every WASP needed a weapon to feel secure against all those inferior races wanting to kill them around… I wonder why. Civilization only came to the Far West when cities like Dodge City started to ban weapons. Till then, was the law of the most criminal. For sure you miss the times when ranchers killed and prosecuted and killed shepherds who wanted to stablish in a county “owned” by the greatest cattle tycoon of the area. Of course weapons give freedom… freedom to abuse and kill other people.
And your willingness to equate freedom to gun owning, whit the not-so-subtle argument of bringing back to life Franco… well, maybe if you’re a little versed in Spanish history, maybe you know we did a full transtion to Democracy without a shot, so your argument of guns=freedom is sinking, yet again. Franco owned all the guns but lost power.
And, speaking of Franco, please explain me how the USA, so fond of Democracy, stablished a series of military bases in Spain when he was in full force killing disidents, giving him the international credibility he was lacking…
>>You’re stupid.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — March 4, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
Wow, you really got me on that one!
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 1:12 pm
No wonder you’re shocked, it’s called “truth”.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:26 pmAnd your willingness to equate freedom to gun owning, whit the not-so-subtle argument of bringing back to life Franco… well, maybe if you’re a little versed in Spanish history, maybe you know we did a full transtion to Democracy without a shot, so your argument of guns=freedom is sinking, yet again. Franco owned all the guns but lost power.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — March 4, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
Spain is to be commended on its escape from Franco’s totalitarianism.
The fact remains, however, that every dictator in history has kept guns away from the people. Not all populations are willing to wait a generation for their freedom, or have the government take it away in the first place. No offense, Evil Spaniard, but I’ll go with the wisdom of Franklin and Madison over yours, thanks.
BUT MY MAIN point was that this is not a Gun control thread, nor a Spanish history thread. It is a thread regarding screening foreign nationals who seek to enter the US. As such, conflating the it with the Second Amendment is a red herring.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:36 pmToaster, 500 people in a Boeing 747?
March 4th, 2008 at 1:55 pmI’m clapping, Evil Spaniard.
Que eres la hostia! Je.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:57 pmThe fact remains, however, that every dictator in history has kept guns away from the people. Not all populations are willing to wait a generation for their freedom, or have the government take it away in the first place. No offense, Evil Spaniard, but I’ll go with the wisdom of Franklin and Madison over yours, thanks.
If fact, we fought against Franco for the whole dictature, but of course, you’re unaware of it. And well, a majority of the dictators have been males. Your posture in favor of weapons (even based in the same opinion of Franklin and Madison), doesn’t mean that freedom to bear arms prevents effectively a totalitarian regime, specially if the totalitarian in charge is in sintony with the laymen, at least in the populist front. Hint: Venezuelans are free to bear an unconcealed gun. Based in what your party line asserts, they’re free, therefore Chávez isn’t a dictator.
See the intricacies of isolated facts and dogmas?
BUT MY MAIN point was that this is not a Gun control thread, nor a Spanish history thread. It is a thread regarding screening foreign nationals who seek to enter the US. As such, conflating the it with the Second Amendment is a red herring.
Comment by Keltoi — March 4, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
OK, let’s return to the core of the thread:
No, the thread is about profiling everybody with a given religion in a terrorist’s database, not a generic immigration database.
See? I grasp far better than you the topic of the thread.
You’re too a pompous ass. Add to previous adjectives to your person, thanks.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:04 pmI’m clapping, Evil Spaniard.
Que eres la hostia! Je.
Comment by Juan C. — March 4, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
Gracias, Juan. Sé que me excedo bastante, pero estos fascistas boludos ;) disfrazados de demócratas me hacen hervir la sangre.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:07 pmGracias, Juan. Sé que me excedo bastante, pero estos fascistas boludos ;) disfrazados de demócratas me hacen hervir la sangre.
Comment by Evil Spaniard
Todo bien. Me gusta La Furia Española. :)
Estoy de acuerdo, éste la juega de moderado pero es un fascista de armario. Supongo que lo de Franco y los etarras te debe haber puesto la sangre caliente…
Buen trabajo. Y hoy gana el Barcelona, pero se le va la Liga… y no soporto al Real Madrid. Je.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:13 pmBuen trabajo. Y hoy gana el Barcelona, pero se le va la Liga… y no soporto al Real Madrid. Je.
Comment by Juan C. — March 4, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Well, I’m returning to English (sort of): we are gossiping of football here, today is the Celtic-Barça game at Barcelona.
I’m more preoccuppied of the damage the Celtic’s supporters will do to downtown city than of the result of the match. Last time they came were somewhat uncivil. This time, we have prepared a meeting point free beer, giant TV, futbolines… it’s cheaper than cleaning after them :D
March 4th, 2008 at 2:22 pmYou usually don’t set up straw men in your posts missmolly. I’ve never heard a Conservative say “all terrorists are Muslims.†There are plenty of terrorists who are not Muslim. I doubt if the Eco-Terrorists of the ELF that struck again yesterday were Muslim.
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:16 am
I admit I made that point with just a pocketful of wry — I know there are plenty of people, conservatives AND progressives, who believe that any act intended to promote fear in the populace and conducted for political purposes is properly described as terrorism no matter who does it. My post had the snark button on.
However, I have a hard time believing that you have never heard a conservative say “all terrorists are Muslims”. Here are a couple of examples:
“Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.” — Ann Coulter (said on more than one occasion)
“It is perfectly safe to say all terrorists are Muslims. All of them. If it was not for the religion of Islam, this world would be a much, much, much more peaceful place today.” — Neal Boortz
Furthermore, this has become an oft-repeated soundbite on conservative blogs — to the point where it’s become a cliche. If you google the phrase, the references go on for pages.
And it’s because this phrase has been rather overused, it’s reasonable to believe there are a lot of people out there who truly believe that only a Muslim can be a terrorist.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:25 pmAnd it’s because this phrase has been rather overused, it’s reasonable to believe there are a lot of people out there who truly believe that only a Muslim can be a terrorist.
Comment by missmolly — March 4, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
I think it’s a problem of ethnocentrism in the side of the Average Joe and a little naiveté about foreing issues. For many years, the mainland USA has been isolated of foreing influences (attacks). The people performing things as abortion clinic bombings weren’t labelled as “terrorists”, but whackos, misguided youngsters, faithful christians, and bank robbers or serial killers were labelled too often as “terrorists”.
The term itself has lost its meaning for that Joe in the mouths of so many ignorant and/or partisan pundits, and when the Bush cabinet decided to make an all out PR campaing to equate “muslim” with “terrorist”, they’ve swallowed hook, sinker and line without too much difficulty.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:35 pmI don’t think she’s a closet facist at all…….I think she is out in the open
March 4th, 2008 at 2:35 pmThere are plenty of terrorists who are not Muslim. I doubt if the Eco-Terrorists of the ELF that struck again yesterday were Muslim.
Comment by good_golly — March 4, 2008 @ 11:16 am
Yeah like those Sandinistas. Oh wait a minute weren’t they freedom fighters? I always get those two confused
March 4th, 2008 at 3:37 pm