The economic costs of war.
The economic costs of war.
The New York Times’ Bob Herbert writes:
The war in Iraq will ultimately cost U.S. taxpayers not hundreds of billions of dollars, but an astonishing $2 trillion, and perhaps more. There has been very little in the way of public conversation, even in the presidential campaigns, about the consequences of these costs, which are like a cancer inside the American economy.
On Thursday, the Joint Economic Committee, chaired by Senator Chuck Schumer, conducted a public examination of the costs of the war. The witnesses included the Nobel Prize-winning economist, Joseph Stiglitz (who believes the overall costs of the war — not just the cost to taxpayers — will reach $3 trillion), and Robert Hormats, vice chairman of Goldman Sachs International.
Both men talked about large opportunities lost because of the money poured into the war. “For a fraction of the cost of this war,” said Mr. Stiglitz, “we could have put Social Security on a sound footing for the next half-century or more.”
Matt Yglesias notes, “Few people seem to appreciate it, but it’s quite literally true that al-Qaeda’s strategy is to cripple the U.S. economy by dragging us into quagmires abroad.” Arianna Huffington writes, “The thing about $3,000,000,000,000 is that, at a certain point, it becomes hard to ignore.”
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The chymp got suckered into this by a much smarter person. Bin Laden must be chuckling from his cave or grave.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:54 am“The thing about $3,000,000,000,000 is that, at a certain point, it becomes hard to ignore.â€
Yeah, but, presidenting IS hard work.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:54 amtheres also been talk of $3 to $7 trillion for this war
March 4th, 2008 at 11:54 amIt sucks to have the leader of your nation be an idiot.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:56 amThis war has been all about enriching Bush’s cronies. That’s all. It has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting us from terrorists or keeping us safe.
Someone needs to protect us and keep us safe from the biggest terrorist of them all: George W. Bush.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:57 amal-Qaeda’s strategy is to cripple the U.S. economy by dragging us into quagmires abroad
Why not? That’s what broke the back of the Soviet Union in its Afghan misadventure. Lightning CAN strike twice.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:58 amAQ didn’t need to work to destroy our country. George Bush has done it for them. Heckofa job George.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:58 amAnd on top of that The rest of the world dont want your products no matter how cheap
we are ethical investors – and to buy American super wheat would make us sick straight after
MBNA europe have had thousands of Returned credit cards for ethical reasons
McDonalds and ASDA are fearfull to tell the Americans the real extent of Boycott
TAKE YOUR PRODUCTS AN STUFF EM -
March 4th, 2008 at 11:59 amIf I had voted for George Bush, I would be so embarrassed. How do the people who voted for him live with themselves?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:00 pmThey knew GW was an arrogant sociopathic moron and could easily be suckered into this illegal immoral war, as was most of America that did not look into what was going on at the time…I was not suckered, I was the only one of 22 people at where I work that called BS. Now they all agree that it was one big lie.
Bush/Cheney
March 4th, 2008 at 12:01 pmHague Trials ‘09
but, but but but…..some Righties in suits told me it would pay for itself!!!!!!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:02 pmISN’T IT FUNNY HOW OBL KNEW MORE ABOUT THE AMERICAN PSYCHE THAN AMERICANS DID? HOW TO DESTROY A COUNTRY WITH THEIR OWN BLOODTHIRSTY GREED?
PRETTY BRILLIANT IF YOU ASK ME.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:02 pmHow do the people who voted for him live with themselves?
Denial? Delusion? Cheap booze?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:02 pmThis war has been all about enriching Bush’s cronies. That’s all. It has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting us from terrorists or keeping us safe.
Someone needs to protect us and keep us safe from the biggest terrorist of them all: George W. Bush.
Comment by Leftside Annie — March 4, 2008 @ 11:57 am
I couldn’t say it any better.
Thank You
March 4th, 2008 at 12:02 pmBuckie, do ya think that’s why AQ waited until Bush was chympident to pull off 9/11? or maybe Bush waited till he was chympident to pull off 9/11?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:03 pmCLINTON TORTURED FIRST
First introduced during the Clinton administration, extraordinary renditions—in which suspected terrorists are turned over to countries known to use torture, usually for the purpose of extracting information from them—have been one of the cia’s most controversial tools in the war on terror. According to legal experts, the practice has no justification in United States law and flagrantly violates the Convention Against Torture, an international treaty that Congress ratified in 1994. Nonetheless, Congress and the American courts have essentially ignored the practice, and the Bush administration has insisted that it has never knowingly sent anyone to a place where he will be tortured.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:04 pmThis is the result of letting our irrational fears guide our decision making.
Thank the administration for stoking our fears but shame on us for allowing them to do it.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:04 pm#16: CLINTON TORTURED FIRST
– - Little early to go off the rails, ain’t it?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:07 pmIndolence should be a goal and not a starting place.
No trolls here to defend their chymperor for borrowing us into a ditch the size of the grand canyon to pay for this misadventurism.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:09 pmHope I didn’t jinx the thread…!
That one has its own agenda, badmoodman…
It rarely seems connected to the thread its on.
Merely erecting its own billboards wherever it goes.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:09 pm“Few people seem to appreciate it, but it’s quite literally true that al-Qaeda’s strategy is to cripple the U.S. economy by dragging us into quagmires abroad.â€
———————————————
And we make it SOOOOOOOOO easy for them…
March 4th, 2008 at 12:10 pm.
Well, let’s see…
What has your Government asked you to sacrifice for this war?
If you don’t have any skin in the game, then you aren’t being asked to sacrifice a damn thing… except your future livelihood.
Nope, no rationing gas, or hosiery, or tin, or tires…
Nope, no war bonds, no war tax…
Just your economic future, that’s all folks.
The problem with $2,000,000,000,000 is that at some point the number gets to be so large it’s incomprehensible, even when you feel it’s effects. Our DOLLAR isn’t even worth a dollar, anymore.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?
.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:11 pmTRoS, remember the billboard in the Rat Race
‘You’
‘Should’
‘Have’
‘Bought’
‘A’
‘Squirrel!!’
~~
March 4th, 2008 at 12:11 pmBadmoodman, just report the post as off topic – that’s the only way to deal with that sort of abuse.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pmI thought the war was going to pay for itself! Boy am I dumb for believing that one.
/snark off
March 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pmAnd we make it SOOOOOOOOO easy for them…
Comment by missmolly — March 4, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
Layin’ the Snark on a little heavy this morning, are we?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:13 pmComment by RUCerious — March 4, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
I remember being pleasantly surprised by that movie… it turned out to be quite a bit funnier than I thought it would be… :-D!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:14 pmlefty, when you think about the Wolfie prediction that the oil would pay for it, and the Rummy prediction, no longer than six months, doesn’t it strike you as weird that six months worth of oil revenues would be just a little shy of THREE TRILLION DOLLARS!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:15 pmRemember those wonderful Burma Shave roadside signs, RU?
(Boy, am I ever dating myself…)
March 4th, 2008 at 12:15 pmIt sucks to have the leader of your nation be an idiot.
The understatement of the decade RU.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:16 pmTRoS ~ I see quite a few parallels between parts of that movie and this ongoing farce of an occupation.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:17 pmIf we’d bought a Gore or Kerry squirrel we wouldn’t be in the trash heap at the bottom of the canyon named Iraq Gulch.
Not a current prices, RU.
Just makes Ole Wolfie look like some kinda Nostra… Nostra…
Notre Dameus? La Cosa Nostril? Gimme some help here, folks…
March 4th, 2008 at 12:17 pmTRoS ~ Yep, we travelled cross country (by car, with four of us kids) in 60 and 61 to visit my Dad’s relations in Mass, and we must have read dozens, if not hundreds of them!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:18 pmNosferatu?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:18 pmIraq Gulch?
Sounds like a Western…
Bad Day, Week, Month, and Year at Black Rock?
The High Noon of Lowered Expectations?
Shootout at the Okey Dokey Corral?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:19 pmUh, oh. I got TRoS on a roll here! LMAO!!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:20 pmThe 3:10 express to Hell?
The Low Plains grifter?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:21 pmNosferatu… yeah… that’s it… that’s the ticket.
Yeah, I loved those Burma Shave signs when I was a kid.
They seemed so silly. Sh*t, they WERE silly.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:21 pmWhy not? That’s what broke the back of the Soviet Union in its Afghan misadventure. Lightning CAN strike twice.
Comment by Uncle Ho — March 4, 2008 @ 11:58 am
Usama bin Laden must’ve seen that movie “Charlie Wilson’s War.” I bet that’s where he got the idea.
Ooo – maybe the producers can sue him for copyright infringement!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:22 pmThe only thing that saved my parent’s sanity on those trips was ~
Mad Magazine! Furshlugginer!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:22 pmThe GOP: The Bad and The Ugly
March 4th, 2008 at 12:24 pmThe Low Plains grifter?
Comment by RUCerious — March 4, 2008 @ 12:21 pm
Ooooo… I like that one…
An epic – How the West Was Bankrupted?
Blood Red River?
The Sons of Barbara Bush?
Truly Gritless?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:25 pmComment by Max-1 — March 4, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
Dead on. Bush has caused so much damage to this country. Blind ignorant partisans will only see this too late.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:27 pmOh yeah… mad magazine… the GOOD stuff…
Hmmm… we seem to be slipping sideways into unmitigated silliness here.
And so easily. how did that happen?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:27 pmThe Sons of Barbara Bush?
shorter,
Son of a Bush
March 4th, 2008 at 12:28 pmJoseph Stiglitz (who believes the overall costs of the war — not just the cost to taxpayers — will reach $3 trillion), and Robert Hormats, vice chairman of Goldman Sachs International.
Mr. Stiglitz noted that nearly 40 percent of the 700,000 troops from the first gulf war, which lasted just a month, have become eligible for disability benefits. The current war is approaching five years in duration.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:30 pmRemember those wonderful Burma Shave roadside signs, RU?
(Boy, am I ever dating myself…)
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 4, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
OLD FART on board.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:31 pmHmmm… we seem to be slipping sideways into unmitigated silliness here.
And so easily. how did that happen?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 4, 2008 @ 12:27 pm
For all their stupidity and obliviousness, the trolls do offer a point of focus for most threads.
When they’re too chickensh!t to even show up and defend their preznit, threads run the risk of sliding sideways.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:33 pmShayne, that should be plural, OLDS FART on boards.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:33 pmComment by RUCerious
I’m actually reminded of the 2004 Presidential race when Republicans collectively got the vapors over Kerry saying that the war cost $250 billion.
Look on the bright side. How much will $3 trillion actually be worth when Bush is done? The dollar is the new peso.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:34 pmYes, camel guy, sometimes we just go slideways, just for fun.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:34 pmBeats cryin, sometimes.
And through all of the money that’s being pissed away, I really don’t see ANY repuglycans assuming the mantle of responsibility, of how they plan to deal with the unprecedented amount of debt we’re racking up, nada, nothing, nosirree!
March 4th, 2008 at 12:36 pmThe price will be measurable in foods and medications (not to mention toys) not inspected, bridges not repaired, water pipes in New Orleans not replaced, deteriorating infrastructure, dollar devastated, unemployment, health uninsured, USW.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:38 pmOLD FART on board.
Comment by Shayne — March 4, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
And just when I thought we were friends… humpf!
threads run the risk of sliding sideways.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 4, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
Well, I’m just relieved to see that no one is blaming ME for all this silliness… after all, I always am such a proper, dignified presence here.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:40 pmHey it’s not your fault you’re old, right ralph?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:43 pmNope RUC, if I pluralize “old fart” I’d have to include myself. Not gonna go it.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:45 pmIt’s all my fault, TRoS, what with the Rat Race reference and all, and I proudly accept all blame, responsibility and reverse kudos.
Now, wouldn’t it be nice to hear a troll/repuke do that occasionally?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:45 pmRU, when I’m not busy being the stone wise ass the Good Lord intended me to be, I am simply AGHAST at the damage Botch & Co has done to our country in just 8 short years… uh… make that 8 endless years.
(Sorry… can’t help it… I was born to snark…)
It will take DECADES to fix this mess, if we can.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:46 pmI really don’t see ANY repuglycans assuming the mantle of responsibility, of how they plan to deal with the unprecedented amount of debt we’re racking up, nada, nothing, nosirree!
Comment by RUCerious — March 4, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
Responsibility? It’s not their thang.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:46 pmIndeed, RU…
My name is TRoS… and I’m a snarkaholic…
Friends don’t let friends blog snarked…
March 4th, 2008 at 12:47 pmYup, we shoulda bought a squirrel, instead we got Bush whacked.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:47 pmThe price will be measurable in foods and medications (not to mention toys) not inspected, bridges not repaired, water pipes in New Orleans not replaced, deteriorating infrastructure, dollar devastated, unemployment, health uninsured, USW.
Comment by Doc Rock — March 4, 2008 @ 12:38 pm
Not to mention all the mad cow distributed to our children in school lunches because the USDA can’t be bothered following protocol regarding downer cattle not being butchered unless they’ve been inspected.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:48 pmThe American people didn’t stand up to stop this along with the Bush Administration and the Media the public blamed everyone but ourselves. Even Bill Clinton was blamed for the mess. Most Americans don’t realize how serious this is. As I watch Obama secretly with his mentor’s help John Kerry, start setting up the same policy Bush has. Anyone can make a mistake but idiots keep making the same mistakes over and over again. We have watch voters vote for a candidate based on a speech even when they know he’s doesn’t know what to do without being told or directed. Sounds like another George W. Bush as has already started his Cabinet even before the election is over. The new World Leaders are guided by the old ones to make sure the US continues to fall.
Yes soon the US will great new female Presidents who like Hillary know what their doing and have spent years getting the experience.
Iraq is the winner in all this as they have the oil to sell. Law Makers are back stabbing the public and each other for greed. Our Constitution and Laws were set up to protect the people. Only the American people have the power in the US. By not educating the people we now see the results. Immigrants know more about how the US Government works then Americans. A poll showed Americans know all of the people in the cartoon show the Simpson’s, but don’t know who the US Supreme Court Justices are nor how many there are. So look for another corrupt President as Obama says he is or if people only have two choices of Obama/McCain we lose either way.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:50 pmWe CANNOT let anything get in the way of making money, Shayne.
Our children’s health and very futures be damned if it’s gonna cost some business man one F-in’ dime.
Isn’t that the principle this proud Republic (no, no… not ME, this time…) was founded on? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of every last, single, solitary dollar out we can wring out of any and everything we can possibly get our hands?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:54 pmBut snarling, sneering, smirking George W. Bush says no problem – we’ll just print more money and let someone else worry about it.
March 4th, 2008 at 12:57 pmBush whacked = am-Bushed
March 4th, 2008 at 1:16 pmThe spineless pissant trolls can’t even fake an argument on this thread.
The full weight of their ignorance is laid on their shoulders here. This is the true legacy of George W. Bush. He has bankrupted this country and fallen directly into the trap of AQ.
Partisan neocon ideology has taken precedence over the USA. I will fight with every fiber of my being to not allow their ignorance and fear push this country anywhere ever again.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:16 pmUncle Ho {:>}
March 4th, 2008 at 1:21 pmhellina ~ AMEN!
March 4th, 2008 at 1:22 pmRemember those wonderful Burma Shave roadside signs, RU?
(Boy, am I ever dating myself…)
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
I also remember the billboards that read “Empeach Earl Warren” from the same era.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:23 pmTime to INDICT, IMPEACH AND IMPRISON BUSH/CHENNEY & Co. is overdue! HAGUE 2009!
March 4th, 2008 at 1:24 pmRU; you & TROS seem to be on a roll today. :-)
March 4th, 2008 at 1:29 pmDoes anyone else ever wonder which country George Bush actually works for ? He has cut funding for every department that tries to protect the American public, he cuts out oversight, whistleblowers are hounded out of their jobs, journalists are punished for uncovering some of the crap he has done. Does anyone wonder why nobody has the courage to stand up and call this administration what it really is ?
March 4th, 2008 at 1:31 pmThanks Uncle Ho {:>} Slow day at the data factory.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:35 pmCheck out NPR’s Fresh Air. Today’s interviews with Nobel Prize winning economist Joe Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes lay out the true human and economic cost of this debacle.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:46 pmIt’s staggering. It’s disgusting and shameful.
Wounded soldiers have to PROVE that they’re injured before getting any benefits. The lag time is when they fall into homelessness, substance abuse and domestic violence.
But White House hitman Tony Fratto said
“People like Joe Stiglitz lack the courage to consider the cost of doing nothing and the cost of failure. One can’t even begin to put a price tag on the cost to this nation of the attacks of 9/11,â€
Once again linking 9/11 with Iraq.
Another Profile in Courage from the Bushies.
Bush lacks to courage to tell the American people the true cost of his war.
I remember seeing Burma Shave signs on Route 66, Mad Magazine and the Impeach Earl Warren billboards, mostly in the South, too, but what does it have with the topic at hand?
March 4th, 2008 at 1:49 pmCal, you’d have to follow the thread for that answer.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:55 pmCal, start at post #23.
March 4th, 2008 at 1:56 pm“CLINTON TORTURED FIRST”
So that must make it ok?
If Clinton did allow torture, then he too should be prosecuted for his crimes.
Now go away
March 4th, 2008 at 2:10 pmMr Bungle, when I first spied that headliner, I supposed that it was about Hillary getting tortured before Barack…?
March 4th, 2008 at 2:22 pmRead it. Still don’t see how. Amusing anyway.
March 4th, 2008 at 2:42 pmTo me, the ultimate irony is that the Neocons laud Saint Ronnie with a mantra that he forced the Soviets into spending massive amounts of money for the military, thus pulling them into an economic quagmire, crippling their economy, and ultimately pulling down the Berlin Wall.
Now the Neocons pull us into the same ruse.
Can’t we even learn from ourselves ?
March 4th, 2008 at 5:35 pmBeyond the unspeakable travesty of the waste and lost opportunity cost, the $2 trillion dollar projected cost of Iraq is a magic number because it is the same as the $2 trillion projected Social Security surplus that bush inherited and subsequently squandered in his foolish war. It thus becomes a media bonanza for Democrats to claim that ‘bush and the republicans spent your (every American’s) social security in Iraq’. It then nicely wraps in a bow to remind voters that ’republicans have been trying to get rid of social security by privatizing it. Republicomics – it sucks!’
March 4th, 2008 at 7:17 pm.
Stiglitz’ argument hinges on a crucial premise: that the cost of oil has been impacted so greatly by the war that well over $50 a barrel can be attributed to the Iraq war. That’s where most of the cost comes from. Now, can you prove it? That’s the thing – how do you prove that oil prices wouldn’t be, say, $5 a barrel lower if we weren’t in Iraq?
March 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm