ThinkFast: March 5, 2008
ThinkFast: March 5, 2008
“Voters in two southern Vermont towns passed articles Tuesday calling for the indictment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney for violating the Constitution. More symbolic than substantive, the items sought to have police arrest Bush and Cheney if they ever visit Brattleboro or nearby Marlboro or to extradite them for prosecution elsewhere — if they’re not impeached first.”
Yesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said he does not “agree with [the] sentiment that there has been widespread corruption” in the Bush administration, suggesting he wouldn’t support independent investigations into the administration’s activities if elected.
Despite recent speculation of a compromise, Congress is still deadlocked over controversial electronic surveillance legislation. Democratic aides met yesterday in an effort to resolve differences between House and Senate bills, but “Republicans boycotted the meetings — as they have previous meetings on the issue.”
Twenty-six Senate Democrats will send a letter to the Bush administration today urging it to impose sanctions on Iran, contending its central bank “is heavily involved in the funding of terrorism and the financing of Iran’s proliferation activities.”
Senate Democrats unveiled a budget “that would inject billions of additional dollars into such domestic priorities as education, energy and transportation, while providing $35 billion for a second round of government spending aimed at stimulating a weak economy.” The budget “omits…tens of billions of dollars to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
A top CDC official told a congressional panel yesterday that the agency “should have reacted sooner to concerns about hazardous fumes in government-issued trailers housing thousands of Gulf Coast hurricane victims.” Howard Frumkin said “Formaldehyde in trailers didn’t rise to the top of our priority list at that time.”
Adopting a message that could “help Democrats to portray themselves as protecting the military and national security,” Congressional Democrats will argue that getting troops out of Iraq “is the only way to rebuild a spent military.”
Anti-coal groups filed a lawsuit this week “to stop federal investment in new power plants that would enshrine coal for another generation.”
Today, Senate conservatives plan to announce a package of harsh immigration bills that would “require jail time for illegal immigrants caught crossing the border, make it harder for them to open bank accounts and compel them to communicate in English when dealing with federal agencies.”
And finally: Get ready for the House GOP’s “live-blogging” from a Budget Committee debate on the fiscal 2009 spending plan! House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) said that Americans will get a “front-row seat for this important debate” and a “chance to follow the action as it happens.” The excitement starts today at 10:30 EST here.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Congratulations to Dennis Kucinich on winning the Democratic Primary for his Congressional Seat. Dennis beat back a challenger almost certainly directed and financed by centrist Democrats.
The "Conscience of the Congress" should glide to easy victory against the Republican opponent in the general election.
Note to Pelosi: Dennis will be back and hopefully continue to make your life, and the rest of the traitors in the Democratic Party, as uncomfortable as possible!
March 5th, 2008 at 9:02 amBrattleboro, Vermont, Votes to Indict Bush and Cheney
Brattleboro, Vt., voted today in support of a measure calling on the town's police force to arrest and indict Bush and Cheney. The vote was 2012-1795.
Marlboro, Vt., passed a similar measure at its town meeting today at which the vote to indict Bush and Cheney was 43-25-3. That's 43 in favor and 3 abstaining. Thus Marlboro beat Brattleboro to it by a few hours. In Brattleboro, the indictment question was on the primary ballots for both parties.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/31522
*** If you put the arrest of Bush and Cheney on Pay-per-View and made it available to the entire world we could pay back our National Debt in one day!
March 5th, 2008 at 9:05 amHouse Set to Vote on Mental Health Parity Bill Next Week
WASHINGTON – The House is scheduled to vote Wednesday on mental health parity legislation named for the late Sen. Paul Wellstone that would require equal health insurance coverage for mental and physical illnesses when policies cover both.
“I cannot emphasize enough how historic this vote will be,†said Wellstone’s son, David Wellstone, in a letter to activists. “For five years, I have heard promise after promise that Congress will pass mental health parity legislation in my father’s honor.â€
Paul Wellstone, a Minnesota Democrat who championed mental health parity for years, was killed in a plane crash in 2002. David Wellstone is urging people to contact House members on the eve of the vote Tuesday to rally support for the bill, called the “The Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act.â€
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/01/7392/
*** As a matter of self-interest the neo-conservatives should vote unanimously for mental health coverage.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:09 amHoward Frumkin said “Formaldehyde in trailers didn’t rise to the top of our priority list at that time.â€
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Lemme get this straight. The formaldehyde in the trailers was SO dangerous that FEMA people weren't permitted in them for ANY reason. One FEMA staffer wasn't even allowed to go into one to switch off a light. Yet it wasn't important enough to be a priority for the CDC, even though people were living in them.
What's the deal here? Is it:
1) The formaldehyde levels really weren't that dangerous and FEMA overreacted?
2) The CDC truly did have higher priorities in that Americans were being subjected to something far more deadly elsewhere (and if so, what was that?)?
3) It doesn't matter if poor and/or displaced people live in a dangerous environment because they are really little more than flotsam?
Which is it?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:15 amYesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said he does not “agree with [the] sentiment that there has been widespread corruption†in the Bush administration...
and today, he supports investigating Bush.
'John McCain, boldly standing on both sides of any issue.'
March 5th, 2008 at 9:16 amLast night's 'Slimeary' was Hillaryious.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:17 am"Twenty-six Senate Democrats will send a letter to the Bush administration today urging it to impose sanctions on Iran..."
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And the Bush administration will say, "Nah, we'd rather just bomb them. That gets more coverage in the press, and we need to show our relevance."
March 5th, 2008 at 9:19 am“Voters in two southern Vermont towns passed articles Tuesday calling for the indictment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney for violating the Constitution. More symbolic than substantive, the items sought to have police arrest Bush and Cheney if they ever visit Brattleboro or nearby Marlboro or to extradite them for prosecution elsewhere — if they’re not impeached first.â€
YEA! An American town with some balls!
March 5th, 2008 at 9:21 amsuggesting he wouldn’t support independent investigations into the administration’s activities if elected.
Of course he wouldn't. He wouldn't want to set a bad precedent like a little accountability. I'm sure that McCain is salivating at the thought of all that unitary executive power.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:22 amDemocratic aides met yesterday in an effort to resolve differences between House and Senate bills, but “Republicans boycotted the meetings — as they have previous meetings on the issue.â€
There is no reason for the Democrats to even be addressing this issue as long as the Republicans are refusing to come to the table. They just should announce that they will suspend all discussions until such time as the Republicans stop acting like spoiled children.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:24 amcontending its central bank “is heavily involved in the funding of terrorism and the financing of Iran’s proliferation activities.â€
WTF is wrong with the Democrats. Why are they handing Bush something like this. And, why aren't they sending a letter to Bush asking him to impose sanctions on Saudi Arabia. They are pretty much funding terrorism in Iraq also.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:25 amA perfect example of Republican leadership if there ever was one. I thought Conservatives were supposed to stand up to their adversaries and never back down from a fight?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:25 amIt's easy to see them for the cowards they really are when they don't have a soldier to hide behind.
The budget “omits…tens of billions of dollars to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.â€
Good. It's about time we start spending our money at home rather than dumping it into the hell hole that is Iraq.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:26 amToday, Senate conservatives plan to announce a package of harsh immigration bills that would “require jail time for illegal immigrants caught crossing the border, make it harder for them to open bank accounts and compel them to communicate in English when dealing with federal agencies.â€
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Ah, it's "git tough on im'grants" time again. Now we're going to fill our jails with them? Yes, I can see how being in jail would make it tougher to open a bank account, but how is this going to compel them to communicate in English? If an immigrant can speak English, he will be less likely to go to jail? Or is the idea here that they will be motivated to learn English while in jail? Since a good percentage of cell-mates will likewise be Spanish speaking, since they will be in jail for the same reason, I doubt it.
Or maybe these conservatives are saying that it's not the illegality of their immigration that's the problem, it's that they can't speak English? WTF?
But back to the jail idea -- all this is going to do is fill up our jails to overcrowded. Just like zero tolerance on drugs has done. I fail to see how this will be a benefit to anyone.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:27 am#1 - thanks for the post. Good to know Kucinich will still be a thorn in the backside of the powers that be.
Now, it would be nice if Cindy Sheehan could unseat Pelosi!
March 5th, 2008 at 9:27 amHoward Frumkin said “Formaldehyde in trailers didn’t rise to the top of our priority list at that time.â€
Of course they didn't. Why would they care if a bunch of poor people were being poisoned because of something they did. I sure hope all the people who were living in those trailers are suing our government.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:27 amAdopting a message that could “help Democrats to portray themselves as protecting the military and national security,†Congressional Democrats will argue that getting troops out of Iraq “is the only way to rebuild a spent military.â€
I'm not sure why they should have to portray a message that they can protect the military and national security. It's not like the Republicans have done a good job with either of those. Besides this new message, they need to hammer home the fact that Bush and the Republicans broke the military and broke Iraq, all in the pursuit of the holy grail, oil. They have also not made us safer since they are creating new terrorists every day we stay in Iraq.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:30 amsuggesting he wouldn’t support independent investigations into the administration’s activities if elected."
So every american who thinks that there should be investigations should vote for whichever dem wins the nomination, it's that simple.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:30 amHillary hints at shared ticket:
WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton, fresh off a campaign saving comeback, hinted Wednesday at the possibility of sharing the Democratic presidential ticket with Barack Obama — with her at the top. Obama played down his losses, stressing that he still holds the lead in number of delegates.
LINK
March 5th, 2008 at 9:31 amToday, Senate conservatives plan to announce a package of harsh immigration bills that would “require jail time for illegal immigrants caught crossing the border, make it harder for them to open bank accounts and compel them to communicate in English when dealing with federal agencies.â€
And the Democrats need to introduce a companion bill that would require jail time for Employers who employ undocumented workers and make it harder for them to do business in this country.
I love the part about compelling them to communicate in English when dealing with federal agencies. Exactly how is someone who doesn't speak english do that? Perhaps the Mexican government should pass a law that requires any American who goes to Mexico to speak only Spanish, otherwise they will be ignored.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:32 amMissmolly, good points. One more- the proposed "communicate in English only" requirement violates the equal protection clause of the Constitution.
Of course, violating the Constitution never seems to bother Conservatives, as long as they're the ones doing the violating. It's almost like a rapist claim that laws against rape really don't apply to him. Our Constitution is constantly being raped by the very people sworn to uphold it.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:33 amLet's get a list for poor McSenile of exactly those involved in corruption within the GOP since he can't seem to gather that info for himself. Let the list begin with his main squeeze, Renzi.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:34 amWhich is it?
Comment by missmolly
#3.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:34 am“require jail time for illegal immigrants caught crossing the border, make it harder for them to open bank accounts and compel them to communicate in English"
so how exactly does one compell someone to comunicate in a particular language? Really. Should we just repeat ourselves slowly, and loudly, ennuciating each syllable? I guess I always knew those brown people were just pretending to not speaky Englily...
March 5th, 2008 at 9:34 amBrise - amen.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:34 amSo every american who thinks that there should be investigations should vote for whichever dem wins the nomination, it’s that simple.
Comment by Bobwurst — March 5, 2008 @ 9:30 am
Unless both Hillary and Obama also deep-six the idea of investigations into Bushco. They have already both come out against impeachment, and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine either of them adopting a "let's move forward" stance when elected.
I hate to say it, but they are capable of being seduced by that much power, too.
It will take the American people to keep the pressure on if we want any accountability from Bushco. And this includes keeping the pressure on after January 20 if nothing has been done.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:34 amSorry about the double post Bilbo, I'm stunned by that bit of arrogant ignorance too.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:35 amre:26
At least we have a chance with them, our only other choice is to storm the Bastille and erect guillitiones.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:36 am14 doesn't this smack of entrapment by the bush crime cabal? to intentionally keep borders open knowing that they're permitted these poor folks to come here in the first place and then turning on them once they're here. hypocrisy.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:36 amDoes it bother anyone that Hillary is running attack ads that mirror Hate radio & republiscum tactics?
She never took a 'red phone' call as First Lady, nor would we have wanted her to do so.
If her policies are so comprehensive & forward thinking, why does she have to come on like a Neoturd? Wouldn't they stand on their own merit?
McCain has shown better taste, to date, than Hillary.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:38 amComment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 9:24 am
What they should do is hold a press conference and announce that due to continued obstruction from House Republicans who have announced publicly that there will be NO bipartisan legislation from them this year and continued bullying and lack of any honest compromise from this Administration, ANY progress on this issue will be brought up AFTER the elections this year. They should also read off to the media the long list of true experts from this Administration and in the private sector who all agree that the current FISA laws are perfectly adequate to protect our Country. They should also read to the press the letter they received from the Computer & Communications Industry Association (CCIA) in which they state that they clearly oppose the prospect of retroactive immunity and claim that it's ludicrous that they may not assist the WH without immunity. This would more than satisfy the public on this issue while forcing the press to actually report some of the truth behind this issue. It boggles the mind why this Congress hasn't called press conferences to get their side of the issues out to the public.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:40 amComment by missmolly — March 5, 2008 @ 9:15 am
You've got be honest with yourself here. FEMA was to incompetent to react to Hurrican Katrina when it was plastered all over the TV, newspapers and internet. The notion that this gov't could respond to an invisible, but smelly, vapor in a quick and efficient way is almost laughable.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:41 amObama played down his losses, stressing that he still holds the lead in number of delegates.
And it is a lead that Hillary can't overcome unless she is somehow able to browbeat every super delegate to support her. My confidence that we will win this election easily just took a nose dive. Hillary isn't going to give up and she is going to continue with her fear mongering divisive attacks on Obama. By the time the convention comes around, the Democratic party will be horribly split. And, I do fear that McCain can beat Hillary.
I don't believe Hillary would have won Texas if it had not been an open primary state where Republicans could cross over and vote Democratic. I am willing to bet if you took away all the Republicans who crossed over and voted for Hillary, Barak Obama would have won handily.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:43 amMcCain has shown better taste, to date, than Hillary.
Comment by Zimzone — March 5, 2008 @ 9:38 am
True -- although McCain has mostly benefitted from his opponents' self-destruction (in the world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king). When you're in a race with the likes of Huckabee, Romney, Thompson, and Giuliani, all you have to do is just stay rational to win.
It will be a tougher race for McCain in the fall, and I suspect there will be plenty of mudslinging -- particularly from the underdog McCain. The GOP will see to that.
I don't believe for a moment that McCain has "better taste" than any other candidate.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:43 amI wish bush will not be president anymore.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:45 amDuring my next trip to the New England area, I definitely plan to include Brattleboro and Marlboro on my itinerary, spending a generous share of my tourist dollars there. I would also let the people in those towns know why I was there. Hopefully, others will choose to follow suit.
They both appear to be attractive tourist destinations. For further info, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brattleboro,_Vermont and for a taste of small town life (2000 census -- 978), please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlboro,_Vermont
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt, 1918
March 5th, 2008 at 9:46 ammissmolly — March 5, 2008 @ 9:43 am
'Better taste' was a poor choice, missmolly, agreed.
Less Hate, may have been a better descriptor.
Regardless, her tactics right now are disturbing & 'less tasteful'.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am14 doesn’t this smack of entrapment by the bush crime cabal? to intentionally keep borders open knowing that they’re permitted these poor folks to come here in the first place and then turning on them once they’re here. hypocrisy.
Comment by osiris
Not really. Bush wants the immigrants here. They help the profit margin of his wealthy buddy's. Bush is not in sync with a majority of the Republican party on this issue.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:47 amI am willing to bet if you took away all the Republicans who crossed over and voted for Hillary, Barak Obama would have won handily.
I was there, at the caucus, and met several older Repubs who did just that. They believe McCain has a much better chance of beating Hillary than Obama.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:48 amRegardless, her tactics right now are disturbing & ‘less tasteful’.
Comment by Zimzone — March 5, 2008 @ 9:47 am
Agreed. Not only is it unbecoming (as it is for any candidate who plays the game that way), but it's a bit embarrassing for those of us Democrats who criticize the Republicans for these tactics.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:50 amThis would more than satisfy the public on this issue while forcing the press to actually report some of the truth behind this issue. It boggles the mind why this Congress hasn’t called press conferences to get their side of the issues out to the public.
Comment by A Patriot Acting — March 5, 2008 @ 9:40 am
Great plan but we don't have a media that'd report it. If they reported any of it it'd be distorted, twisted and misrepresented. And then the media would highlight the Republican response which would be attacks and smears.
If the Democrats were truly an opposition party they'd be working on restoring the Fairness Doctrine so they could get their message out to the masses - or - they'd be furiously building their own media network.
Whoever controls the media controls the country. Period.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:50 amDoes it bother anyone that Hillary is running attack ads that mirror Hate radio & republiscum tactics?
Definitely. Her current attack ad darkening Obama's skin is beyond despicable. She is getting to the point where I could not vote for her if she was the candidate. Oh well, maybe, if she is the candidate, the number of people who sit out the election on the Republican side will number the Democrats who sit out the election and they will cancel each other out.
I am starting to be afraid of what is going to happen in this election. I believe that Hillary would rather take down her party than admit defeat.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:50 amYes, it does bother me that Hillary is running a smear campaign against Obama. It will only give McCain more fuel once he's running against Obama.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:51 amI would love to see Darth and Chimpy being taken away in handcuffs --
March 5th, 2008 at 9:51 am(I can dream, can't I?) or are we under thought control yet under this Fascist Regime?
I am willing to bet if you took away all the Republicans who crossed over and voted for Hillary, Barak Obama would have won handily.
I was there, at the caucus, and met several older Repubs who did just that. They believe McCain has a much better chance of beating Hillary than Obama.
Comment by DieNowForPeace
After Wisconsin, or was it Michigan, didn't Hillary claim that there was a lot of republicans voting for Obama for this very reason?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:51 amDoes it bother anyone that Hillary is running attack ads that mirror Hate radio & republiscum tactics? . . . She never took a ‘red phone’ call as First Lady, nor would we have wanted her to do so.
Comment by Zimzone — March 5, 2008 @ 9:38 am
Hell yeah, Zim -- it bothers me. She's basically setting up McBush's campaign ads for him for the next few months -- and with her rhetoric, it doesn't matter which Dem wins; she's essentially saying that it's "experience" (whatever that means) that matters, and she certainly don't have that over McCain...
I fail to understand how being First Lady at the state and federal level, and being an elected official for only 6 years, means you have more "experience" that's relevant to being President than someone who has been an elected official at the state and federal levels for well over 10 years...but maybe that's just me...
It's pretty clear now that this primary has always been, and always will be, about the Clintons and their lust for power -- she won't back down until she's forced to, and even then she won't back down, thereby virtually guaranteeing a split in the Democratic party and 4 more years of repuke mismanagement come the fall...
March 5th, 2008 at 9:51 amI am willing to bet if you took away all the Republicans who crossed over and voted for Hillary, Barak Obama would have won handily.
bilbobaggins @ 9:43 am
I was there, at the caucus, and met several older Repubs who did just that. They believe McCain has a much better chance of beating Hillary than Obama.
DieNowForPeace @ 9:48 am
"thank you, rush limpbaugh!!!" - hillary clinton
March 5th, 2008 at 9:51 amThe Republicans create the government they define: inefficient and ineffective.
How else can they justify "small government" that can and should be "drowned in a bath tub" so corporations have less regulation?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:52 amHe's just following Reagan's prohibition against speaking ill of another Republican...
...even if that Republican is a traitor, thief, perjurer, torturer, mad-man, hypocrite, or all of the preceding.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:53 amI was there, at the caucus, and met several older Repubs who did just that. They believe McCain has a much better chance of beating Hillary than Obama.
Comment by DieNowForPeace
I heard a caller at Air America say she went to a chamber event in her town in Texas. She said she was the only Democrat in the room. She also said that every one of the Republicans at the event were "gleeful" because they were leaving the event to go vote for Hillary.
I wonder if it is possible to know how many Republicans did this? Hillary certainly can't say that those Republicans voted for her because they thought she was the best candidate. Barak could have said that if Republicans voted for him, but Hillary can't.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:53 am…even if that Republican is a traitor, thief, perjurer, torturer, mad-man, hypocrite, or all of the preceding.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius
Which is exactly what McCain will be if he is elected.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:55 amI am starting to be afraid of what is going to happen in this election. I believe that Hillary would rather take down her party than admit defeat.
Comment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 9:50 am
what a foolish position. Hillary is proving that she can play the game against the Republicans. She is showing that she is not going to fold like Gore and kerry did. This is modern politics, a down and dirty game, and Clinton is showing some of the nasty that will be needed. She is not taking down the party, that will be up to you voters who think that losing in '00 and '04 by being civil and polite was OK. it wasn't.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:55 amNot really. Bush wants the immigrants here. They help the profit margin of his wealthy buddy’s. Bush is not in sync with a majority of the Republican party on this issue.
Comment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 9:47 am
Which brings us back to reality -- NOTHING will alleviate the immigrant "problem" as long as holding employers accountable is out of the equation. Every other proposal we hear (deport them all, build a fence, put them in jail, etc.) is just a stunt put forth by lawmakers to appease their xenophobic constituents back home. None of them will be implemented, none of them would work even if they WERE implemented, and the lawmakers know it. They just "sound" good.
And this IS an election year...
March 5th, 2008 at 9:55 amif she is the candidate, the number of people who sit out the election on the Republican side ...
Comment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 9:50 am
if she is the candidate - and she will be, i have resigned myself -
the repugs will NOT be sitting it out...
it's all fooked now...
March 5th, 2008 at 9:55 am“thank you, rush limpbaugh!!!†- hillary clinton
Comment by katy
You're right. I bet she's sending him a big ole box of chocolates today.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:56 amFinally, you guys are beginning to realize that your democratic heros are just as big losers as the republican candidates, and that this election isn't going to be a cake walk.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:58 amThink Fast "May 5th"?????
That's my Birthday, and I aint quite 40 yet! 2 more months.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:58 amMy confidence that we will win this election easily just took a nose dive. Hillary isn’t going to give up and she is going to continue with her fear mongering divisive attacks on Obama. By the time the convention comes around, the Democratic party will be horribly split. And, I do fear that McCain can beat Hillary.
Comment by bilbobaggins
What is going on is just power brokering.......You can't give up that easily bilbo.....I'm a little sadened to hear talk of losing this election just because hillary might.....might be the candidate. Many don't like her but many do and I don't think the divisions are that deep......when the dust settles democrats should all be together behind one person......I believe we will and I still believe that the republicans can't possibly win.....short of illegal actions on thier part.
We have a lot to hold the republicans responsible for.....lots of ammunition. The American people are finally becoming aware of what is going on because it is starting to hit them financially.....and it is going to get worse, not better...
March 5th, 2008 at 9:58 amOne thing I think we should keep in mind that this is a very early election season. In years past, nominations were not sewn up until June. I'll support whoever the Democratic nominee is. But, I think that the longer this election lingers on, this will help McBomb.
McWar is already sharpening his talons for his Rove-inspired election. So, whoever the Democratic nominee is : this will get dirty.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:59 amAfter Wisconsin, or was it Michigan, didn’t Hillary claim that there was a lot of republicans voting for Obama for this very reason?
Don't remember hearing that. Every Republican I've spoken with is either:
1) not voting in primary
2) going with Obama thru Nov
or
3) voting for Hillary so McCain can crucify her in the Pres campaign.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:59 amf she is the candidate - and she will be, i have resigned myself -
the repugs will NOT be sitting it out…
it’s all fooked now…
Comment by katy
I don't think she will be the candidate. I think that the Super Delegates are going to realize that Hillary is screwing the Democrats and they will start pledging to Obama. He already picked up 50 more of them and that brings him even with Hillary in Super Delegates.
I'm not sure, but I believe that yesterday's wins by Hillary won't change the delegate count much. She didn't win big like she needed to. I heard on Countdown the other day that if she didn't win by 60% or more in both elections, she wasn't going to make much advancement in the delegate count.
I'm betting that Hillary is going to start discounting the delegates and start emphasizing the popular vote. This even though she has constantly said "it's the delegate count, not the popular vote count". That another way that Hillary is like the Republicans. She is a two-faced hypocrite.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:59 amFunny.
How "No Country for Old Men" (McWar) and "There Will be Blood" (McWar vs. ?) came out the same year.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am"...she’s essentially saying that it’s “experience†(whatever that means) that matters, and she certainly don’t have that over McCain…"
Comment by The Dogfather — March 5, 2008 @ 9:51 am
I believe she's counting on the short attention span of Americans. Another Rove axiom.
If she were to get the Dem nomination (and that's still a VERY big "if"), she will probably hammer away at McCain for having too MUCH experience. Translation = he's too old.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:01 amTwenty-six Senate Democrats will send a letter to the Bush administration today urging it to impose sanctions on Iran, contending its central bank “is heavily involved in the funding of terrorism and the financing of Iran’s proliferation activities.â€
Well, let's hope they didn't spend their AIPAC donation checks all at once.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:01 amMcWar IS too old.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:02 amMany don’t like her but many do and I don’t think the divisions are that deep……when the dust settles democrats should all be together behind one person……I believe we will and I still believe that the republicans can’t possibly win…..short of illegal actions on thier part.
The divisions may not be that deep now, but if Hillary continues with her "scorched earth" campaign, they will be by the convention. She handed McCain a couple of very nice campaign advertisements this last week. The first is the "phone ringing at 3 a.m." and the second was her saying that only she and McCain have the experience to lead. Both of these advertisements tell me that Hillary cares more about winning than she does about the future of her party and the future of this country.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:02 amShe is showing that she is not going to fold like Gore and kerry did. This is modern politics, a down and dirty game, and Clinton is showing some of the nasty that will be needed.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — March 5, 2008 @ 9:55 am
So you think she'd challenge caging lists, electronic voting machines and the like? I haven't heard her say one word about any of this.
You do know that approximately 5-6 million votes (almost all Democrats) WILL be "caged" for the 2008 Presidential election.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:02 amI’m not sure, but I believe that yesterday’s wins by Hillary won’t change the delegate count much.
Comment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 9:59 am
Here's the delegate count so far (not counting superdelegates):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22419475
Here's what it is with superdelegates:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#D
March 5th, 2008 at 10:04 amTexas Office of the Secretary of State 2008 Democratic Party Primary Election Night Returns
http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_136_state.htm
March 5th, 2008 at 10:07 amjust to explain my disposition this morning...
i would have no problem at all with hillary being the nominee IF
she had run a clean campaign... i hate that she used rovian dirty
tricks and scams... that's all... now she's openly sleazy...
i'm saddened that it came to that... unnecessarily, in my opinion...
but, i still think we're all fooked... the criminals are digging in...
March 5th, 2008 at 10:08 amThink Fast “May 5th�????
That’s my Birthday, and I aint quite 40 yet! 2 more months.
Comment by ForTruth — March 5, 2008 @ 9:58 am
Methinks TP is just hastening your age a little bit? :-) Until TP catches their error and fixes it -- Happy Birthday!
March 5th, 2008 at 10:08 amBut, what's troubling for us Obama supporters is the fact that Hillary is winning all the delegate rich "big" states : California, Ohio, Texas, New Jersey, Massachusetts. etc.
That's another factor driving Clinton on.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:08 amHillary is winning all the delegate rich “big†states
In Texas, it's 51% Hill, 49% Barack.
If anything, they'll split the delegates here, so not much to brag about.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:10 am‘John McCain, boldly standing on both sides of any issue.’
Comment by Zimzone — March 5, 2008 @ 9:16 am
A wide stance is mandatory for those in the Republic party.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:10 amSenate Democrats unveiled a budget “that would inject billions of additional dollars into such domestic priorities as education, energy and transportation, while providing $35 billion for a second round of government spending aimed at stimulating a weak economy.†The budget “omits…tens of billions of dollars to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.â€
--------------------------------------------
Let's see. Spending money on infrastructure and our future, and not spending money on stupidity. Makes way too much sense, so it obviously will never fly.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:10 amok. I'm wrong about Texas.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:11 amThat’s another factor driving Clinton on.
But you're right about that! She'll use these marginal victories for bragging rights only, but if it keeps her in the race, that's bad.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:13 amBut back to the jail idea — all this is going to do is fill up our jails to overcrowded. Just like zero tolerance on drugs has done. I fail to see how this will be a benefit to anyone.
Comment by missmolly
This is a common solution from the right......I shouldn't say this because I don't have a link to back it up but I can remember Newt and his gang saying things like..before we are done we will have 10% of Americans in jail. More compassionate conservatism I guess.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:13 amThis is a common solution from the right……I shouldn’t say this because I don’t have a link to back it up but I can remember Newt and his gang saying things like..before we are done we will have 10% of Americans in jail. More compassionate conservatism I guess.
Comment by Fred — March 5, 2008 @ 10:13 am
But it's such an easy way to keep unemployment statistics low...
March 5th, 2008 at 10:16 amIn Texas, it’s 51% Hill, 49% Barack.
If anything, they’ll split the delegates here, so not much to brag about.
Comment by DieNowForPeace — March 5, 2008 @ 10:10 am
Exactly. Part of the problem is the media's constant insistence that one candidate or the other "wins" a state primary, as if it's the Electoral College. We hear it all the time -- "Obama has 'won' eleven straight primaries" (oh really? Hillary picked up a lot of delegates in those same primaries), or "Hillary must 'win' Texas and Ohio to stay in the race" (never mind that in any realistic scenario, Obama will pick up a fair chunk of the delegates, too).
It's not winner-take-all. Only the Republicans have subscribed to that stupidity for their primaries.
Whoever comes out on top in any individual state primary isn't nearly as important as who winds up with the most delegates by convention time. I think the media just like to use the word "win" a lot.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:17 amThe narrative vs. the numbers
By: Steve Benen @ 5:20 AM - PST
As decisive and impressive as Hillary Clinton’s impressive victories were, her campaign’s delegate problem remains a very awkward hurdle.
This is, of course, not a state-by-state race, but rather, a race for delegates. And on that score, Clinton made little progress yesterday.
That’s true. Clinton has changed the momentum of the race, and has clearly bought herself some more time on the campaign trail, but the cold, hard numbers haven’t changed much. It creates a new dynamic — the narrative vs. the numbers.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:20 amhttp://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/05/the-narrative-vs-the-numbers/
Caption :
The Nazi Chimp and his accomplice Darth Cheney brainstorm about creating another 9/11, canceling the 2008 election and installing Martial Law....
March 5th, 2008 at 10:21 amIt’s not winner-take-all. Only the Republicans have subscribed to that stupidity for their primaries.
Comment by missmolly — March 5, 2008 @ 10:17 am
I heard a Republican commentator on NPR this morning criticizing the Democratic proportional representation system as "old fashioned" and "inefficient."
I guess kinda like the Constitution is "quaint." Those silly "Democrats" with their silly "democracy." What are they thinking?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:21 am"...but I can remember Newt and his gang saying things like..before we are done we will have 10% of Americans in jail. More compassionate conservatism I guess."
Comment by Fred — March 5, 2008 @ 10:13 am
I seem to remember Newt saying something like that, but I can't find a link, either (probably because it was more than 10 years ago).
Newt never seemed bothered by the idea of 90% of Americans supporting the other 10% in jail. But if that same 10% was on welfare, expecting to be supported by the other 90%, the Repubs would all be squealing like stuck pigs.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:21 amBut it’s such an easy way to keep unemployment statistics low…
Comment by toasterhead
Yeah and adding the military to the employment rolls as reagan did....I think they look at the prisons as service industry jobs.....heh.....sad isn't it? They are privitizing them of course.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:23 am"I think they look at the prisons as service industry jobs..."
Comment by Fred — March 5, 2008 @ 10:23 am
Aha -- you nailed it! After years of watching their corporate buddies in the private sector profiting from the cheap labor they get from undocumented workers, the government now wants a slice of the action. Fill up the jails with undocumented workers and pay a lot less to keep the highways clean!
March 5th, 2008 at 10:25 amRather than voting for the inevitable, Repub voters were able to get a head start on their campaign against us, by manipulating the democratic nomination, or voting for Hillary, reasoning that she'll be an easier opponent.
I didn't think that a democratic primary process, the stage we're still in, would work against us. Seeing that we have two fine democratic candidates, Hillary and Barack, this has been a "Power of 10" emotional rollercoaster.
The repubs had their ridiculously fluid race, determining their candidate, or the best of the worst, in time to leave Republican voters in significant remaining states -- Penn, NC, Miss, an additional few -- to employ the same tactic.
These mouthbreathers are the ones who could drive Hillary toward the nomination. I was hoping that Hillary would lose Ohio and Texas last night, but there's still reasonable chance that Obama could win. It's the Republican swing-tactic voters I worry about.
I'm closer at this point of supporting a Hillary/Barack ticket. This will cushion us from Repub tactics. And it will certainly make Barack president 4-8 years later.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:27 amand in other "news", confusion still reigns...
Abbas: Truce Necessary to Resume Peace Talks
March 5th, 2008 at 10:31 amVoice of America - 1 hour ago
By VOA News Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas says he will not resume peace talks with Israel until there is a truce in place that will end the violence in the Gaza Strip.
Rice says Israelis and Palestinians intend to resume peace talks Los Angeles Times
Some Israeli Forces Enter South Gaza ABC News
GiGi must be voting for Obama.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:33 amand closer to "home"...
Diplomats confident South American crisis will be resolved
March 5th, 2008 at 10:33 amCNN - 1 hour ago
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Envoys huddling in Washington believe they can "reach an acceptable solution" to the developing rift between Colombia and its neighbors, a leader of the diplomatic group said.
Profiles of Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador presidents Reuters
Venezuela moves tanks to Colombian border MSNBC
US challenges Iran with tough questions
Jerusalem Post - 2 hours ago
By AP The United States on Wednesday challenged Iran to end its state of nuclear denial and explain why it had diagrams showing how to shape fissile uranium into the shape of warheads and other experiments linked to atomic arms research.
IAEA members urge Iran to continue talks, slam cooperation record Monsters and Critics.com
Iran says new sanctions will not hurt economy Reuters UK
when is iran's next election?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:36 amShut up already. Every politician flip flops to make their opinion advantageous to them. Obama flip flops, McCain flip flops, Hillary flip flops, Bush flip flops. Get over it. It's politics.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:37 amYou sure can be rpoud of American troops - look at these troops throwing a Little Jack Russel terrier OFF a cliff in Afghanistan
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=621_1204615429
The mentality is all WRONG
March 5th, 2008 at 10:37 amNOTHING will alleviate the immigrant “problem†as long as holding employers accountable is out of the equation.
Comment by missmolly — March 5, 2008 @ 9:55 am
Fixing the economies of the countries they're coming from wouldn't be a bad idea either. If these folks could make a decent living where they come from, do you really think they'd go thru all the grief they have to put up w/ to get here and then be treated badly to boot? It's called "desperation".
March 5th, 2008 at 10:37 amChevron, BP, Shell and Exxon have deals now with the Iraqi ministry in processing their crude oil.
This was the goal of the war in Iraq wasn't it?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:39 amComment by good_golly — March 5, 2008 @ 10:31 am
Comment by good_golly — March 5, 2008 @ 10:35 am
Why, good morning to you too, good_golly!
Your topic du jour appears to be portraying Obama as a flip-flopper (while making fun of his campaign catch-words).
Would you care to provide some links to support your points? Then perhaps we could discuss them seriously.
In the meantime, is there anything that's actually on the ThinkFast topic list you'd care to comment on?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:41 am"...and not spending money on stupidity...
Comment by missmolly — March 5, 2008 @ 10:10 am
Whoa! Waitaminute... what did I do wrong?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:41 amGrim news from private employers; labor costs up
March 5th, 2008 at 10:42 amReuters - 36 minutes ago
By Burton Frierson NEW YORK, March 5 (Reuters) - The weakening US job market dealt another blow to the struggling economy on Wednesday, while more bad news emerged from the inflation front.
ADP Says US Companies Reduced Payrolls in February (Update2) Bloomberg
Private sector sheds 23000 jobs, ADP survey says MarketWatch
when is iran’s next election?
Comment by katy — March 5, 2008 @ 10:36 am
Sometime in June of 2009. Ahmedinajad is expected to run for reelection against at least two pro-reform candidates.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:42 amWhoa! Waitaminute… what did I do wrong?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 5, 2008 @ 10:41 am
No, no, no --- I meant "stupidity" with a small S. Sorry about that!
March 5th, 2008 at 10:43 amBarack H. Obama
p.s. The “H†stands for Hope.
Comment by good_golly — March 5, 2008 @ 10:35 am
Actually, it stands for Hussein.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:44 amFixing the economies of the countries they’re coming from wouldn’t be a bad idea either. If these folks could make a decent living where they come from, do you really think they’d go thru all the grief they have to put up w/ to get here and then be treated badly to boot? It’s called “desperationâ€.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 5, 2008 @ 10:37 am
Yes, but that'd cut into the profits of the multinationals who are already over there exploiting people in those countries. If those folks could make decent livings in the textile and extractive and manufacturing industries, Walmart would have to raise their prices to something that'd compete with mom-and-pop stores. Can't have that!
March 5th, 2008 at 10:47 amNo, no, no — I meant “stupidity†with a small S. Sorry about that!
Comment by missmolly — March 5, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Whew... that's a relief... **sniff** I feel better now. You are now all free to spend all the money you want on me...
March 5th, 2008 at 10:48 amBrattleboro / Marlboro, Vermont, a place in America where represenative democratic goverment actually works. It's a relief to know that somewhere goverment will listen to it's constituent and act accordingly.
And in Washington, Ms. Pelosi is unable to control a gang of renegades who must have their own way for partisan agenda.
Are the "rebels" or the "rabble" the true defenders of the Democratic way of life? Begins to look that way.
Go Reb!
March 5th, 2008 at 10:50 amMissed in Western newspapers
Venezuela deploys army on border
Venezuela has begun land, sea and air forces - including 10 tank battalions - to the border with Colombia, according to the country's defence minister.
Gustavo Rangel said on Wednesday that the movement of troops was to counter US expansion in the region amid an escalating dispute over Bogota's attack on rebel fighters in Ecuador.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:50 amActually, it stands for Hussein.
Comment by toasterhead — March 5, 2008 @ 10:44 am
recommended by randi - and i think it's a great idea too:
broadcast that name wide and far...
rename yourself, you dog, whatever... get used to it!
-Hussein Katy
March 5th, 2008 at 10:51 amCan’t have that!
Comment by toasterhead — March 5, 2008 @ 10:47 am
That's pretty much it in a nutshell, isn't it?
Hey, let's face it... frightened, hungry, desperate people work harder.
*Spoken in deep voice* It's the Amurican Way.... **cue up "God Bless America"...
March 5th, 2008 at 10:51 amthis is educational, good links:
Clinton's 'math problem' remains; 'joint-ticket' a possiblity?
Winning three of Tuesday's four primaries hasn't changed one thing for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton: She's got delegate troubles.
[...]
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/clintons-math-p.html
-Hussein Katy
March 5th, 2008 at 11:02 am" After much deliberation and a message of HOPE, I started gathering his own union endorsements. "
Next time you attempt snark, GG remember that proofreading your comment is the difference between biting commentary and toothless twaddle.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:02 amIt's a bad mistake to back Iran into a corner when you are only told half of the story. The IAPAC agenda is the only one that America knows, thanks to the incompentancy of the MSM.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:04 amAs Condi fails in the middle east, America finds some other destructive agenda to throw into the mix.
It should be time for America to wake up and deal with this matter in the appropiate forum. But war, death and confusion hold sway to our leaders who really don't want to learn the whole story.
Diplomacy and constructive dialogue will be the only solution to these problems. And we all know it.
Flip-flops, GiGi? That's the best you can come up with against Obama? Oh, I get it -- taking a page outa the Dumbya campaign 2004 book...
OK, so let's try this game on McBush:
McBush: against the war before he was for it (Flip)
McBush: in favor of campaign finance reform before he was against it (Flop)
McBush: in favor of participating in the public campaign finance system
until he was against it (Flip)
McBush: against torture before he was for it (Flop)
McBush: against making the Bush tax cuts permanent until he was for it
(Flip)
And the capper:
McBush: against kissing George Dumbya Bush's a$$ until he was for it
(Flop)
See, GiGi? Anyone can play your little asinine game...now go back to your poopy sandbox and play with the other kiddies so we adults can get back to fixing our country that you and the rest of the repuke enablers ruined...
March 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am-Hussein Katy
Comment by katy — March 5, 2008 @ 10:51 am
Well done! It's a name to be proud of. Just look at all the nice words that come from the H-s-n root.
Hussein Toasterhead
March 5th, 2008 at 11:06 amI wondered if anyone would suggest taking a preemptive strike on the name hussein and overusing it to make it seem as if it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal, but paying ANY attention to it makes it a big deal.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:06 amMan, oh man, oh man....a bad day for Democrats.
I forget who it was, someone on the left, possibly Randhi Rhodes, maybe Donna Brazille a few weeks ago, just marveling that with Bush's popularity in the tank, the economy faltering, an unpopular war dragging on and a strong field of Dem candidates, the Democratic Party would STILL, SOMEHOW find a way to lose in November. And it is the Clintons they will have to thank.
That 3 am ad? My God, what were they thinking? It is CLASSIC Republican tactics, like the Wolves ad from 04 or the Bear ad from 84. And what are the Dems going to do when the R's play THAT SAME DAMN AD in November?
Who in America can argue that Clinton is tougher/more experienced than McCain? And Clinton has basically written the script for McCain should Obama win.
And HRC is "in it to win it" - a virtual impossibility mathematically - til AT LEAST April 22. The "fun part" and "kitchen sink" is just getting started.
I pity the Left, I really do. I pity the Right too, we are just as lost as you guys, but it is going to get pig ugly on your side now. I have been listening to folks here crow about what a slam dunk November was going to be - not any more. Because now you have the equivalent of an auto-immune rejection going on in the Democratic Party, and the Clinton Machine (read: Bill, the greatest politician of his generation) is the foreign body. Good luck, Barack!
March 5th, 2008 at 11:08 amaw, why d'ya want to spoil the fun, repunk?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:09 am:-(
So... does Gigi think that "flip-flopping" is a bad thing in a presidential candidate?
One must always clarify the position Gigi embraces when she makes these cryptic statements of hers. She seems to be implying that "flip-flopping" is a Bad Thing. But she will never come right out and say that, because then she might be faced with having to apply her stated standards to another candidate. Perhaps a Republican.
And that would spoil Gigi's fun.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:10 amI pity the Left, I really do.
Comment by Keltoi — March 5, 2008 @ 11:08 am
That's truly compssionate of you, Keltoi. Truly.
You're absolutely right. Democrats having a tough time choosing between two worthy candidates is going to tear apart the party. Democrats consistently seeing double the turnout of Republicans in their primaries spells certain doom in November. Democrats having to face a candidate who enthusiastically ties himself to the Bush administration really deserve to be pitied, don't they?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:16 amWell, now, isn't that special?
Goony got himself a new Talking Points Memo!!! Awwww. Isn't it CUTE??
Yay, goony!!! You couldn't possibly be clever enough to have thought that up all on your own.
~ Hussein Annie
March 5th, 2008 at 11:18 amDemocrats having to face a candidate who enthusiastically ties himself to the Bush administration really deserve to be pitied, don’t they?
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 5, 2008 @ 11:16 am
But will they keep coming, that is the question. And what will independents do when Obama has been eviscerated by the Clinton attack machine? McCain has very strong appeal to independents, and HRC is clearly going to stop at nothing to destroy him.
I'm just sayin, Ralph, don't count your chickens before they hatch. I want Obama to win....Billary is going to do all they can to tear his heart out, and you know it.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:27 amDon't forget, good googily moogily, it was the right who first coined the phrase "flip flop" to attack a candidate.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:32 amAnd what's your point of Obama's flip flops? do you like sandals? Or are you under the sorry pretense that you may change someones mind regarding his/her vote? Because you won't. I, among most here, have made up their mind on whom to vote for. Your supposed inconsistencies, usually stolen from a "right" blog, do nothing here but expose your (and your party's) desperation. Why else would Rush push for Hillary, a woman he's hated?
Desperate times call for desperate measures, eh gg?
Several posters on this site have referred to the Republican nominee as a “flip flopper,†thus taking the position that “flip flopping†is a bad thing.
Comment by good_golly — March 5, 2008 @ 11:22 am
We didn't start that, actually. That phrase was used by the Republicans in 2004 as a constant drumbeat against Kerry. And THEY were the ones who painted "flip-flopping" as a bad thing.
All politicians change their positions from time to time. Sometimes it's due to changing conditions in our world, and other times it's for political expediency. It's only the ones for political expediency that come across as particularly hypocritical to the people, yet the term "flip-flop" has been hung on both.
That said, I don't think you want to get into a contest of which party's candidates have "flip-flopped" the most. All candidates (both parties) have made some position changes, but if you are going to award points for frequency and weight of the issues, the GOP team of Romney, McCain, Giuliani et al beats Hillary, Obama, and Edwards hands down.
By the way, you never did provide the links I asked for. Just a link to the "before" position and another link to the "after" position for each allegation you've made (and try to make them from authoritative sites -- not just wingnut blog sites). Otherwise it's just rhetoric. Ditto your claim that "there are many, many more Obama flip-flops."
March 5th, 2008 at 11:40 amSo it appears that Clinton's delegate advantage from her 'win' in the Texas primary is a whopping four delegates. When the caucus delegates are apportioned, Obama may well make those back up plus some. If Obama's 54/46% caucus lead reported last night holds up, he'll get 36 and Clinton will get 31.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:45 amLike him or hate him, good golly has a point about the flip flopping thing. It was a republican tactic that users here have used against mccain, with no remorse.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:47 amInteresting article at townhall
Delegate Race
To quote part...
Barack Obama regained lost ground in the fierce competition for Democratic convention delegates on Wednesday based on results from the Texas caucuses, partially negating the impact of Hillary Rodham Clinton's string of comeback primary victories.
Late returns showed Clinton emerged from Rhode Island, Vermont, Texas and Ohio with a gain of 12 delegates on her rival for the night, with another dozen yet to be awarded in The Associated Press' count.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:49 amThat left Obama with an overall lead of 101 delegates, 1,562-1,461 as the rivals look ahead to the final dozen contests on the calendar.
oops, forgot the close tag...damn.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:49 amDelegate Race
"And what are the Dems going to do when the R’s play THAT SAME DAMN AD in November?"
[Announcer]: John McCain is a lobbyists' dream. He says he's for campaign reform, while he's loading his campaign bus with Washington lobbyists. One look at his Senate record shows John McCain speaks the truth, when he says he knows little about the issues that Americans deal with on a daily basis. With him, Washington lobbyists know who will really run the administration, and establish government policies that affect us all on a daily basis.
Can we really trust him to represent all Americans, in this time of uncertainty?
March 5th, 2008 at 11:52 amComment by RUCerious — March 5, 2008 @ 11:49 am
It actually looks like I might get a vote as to who my party's nominee will be this year. Our state primary isn't until May 6, and generally the nominee has been chosen before the process gets to us.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:52 amSeveral posters on this site have referred to the Republican nominee as a “flip flopper,†thus taking the position that “flip flopping†is a bad thing.
Comment by good_golly
The idiot troll misses the point that they came up with that term. And in McCain's case, it really fits. Whereas Kerry changed his mind on a few issues over a course of time, McCain changes his mind on a daily basis. That is truly a flip flop. What Kerry did was change is mind because circumstances changed.
Oh, I guess that would apply to McCain too. He changes his mind because circumstances have changed in that he needs the NeoCon's votes so he has gone back on ideals he has held for a lifetime in order to fit into the NeoCon mold.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:57 amComment by barfly — March 5, 2008 @ 11:52 am
I predict the fall campaign will have a lot of references to McCain's coziness with lobbyists. The Dems will probably also capitalize on McCain's coziness with Bush -- Dubya's low approval ratings make that a no-brainer, as well as McCain's morphing virtually all of his positions to match the Bush agenda.
Poor Bush. His "legacy" will be that his presidency was so bad it was used in negative ads by the opposition party.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:57 am1) Not that many R's will got to the polls in Nov.
1.5) D's are bursting the seams on every polling place, even though it's just the Primaries.
2) D's are outraising R's by 4-1 margins month after month after month.
3)Traditionally, R's outspend D's by those kinds of margins just to win by a hair or a cheat.
4) Running a primary to its end because there are 2 good candidates is not a bad thing. Never was - just seems that way because the world is so impatient to have the nightmare over. If Tim Russert wants to say that will "destroy" the D's, then its just because he's a fatheaded loudmouth media whore who wants everyone to keep watching him on TV. Others who say the same are merely desperate R's wanting to piss in everyone else's cheerios.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:00 pmIt actually looks like I might get a vote as to who my party’s nominee will be this year. Our state primary isn’t until May 6, and generally the nominee has been chosen before the process gets to us.
Comment by missmolly
Me too. The Oregon primary is held on May 26.
The problems with pushing the nomination out that far are:
1) Both Democratic candidates are going to waste a lot of money they will need for the presidential campaign
2) It gives McCain a head start on his advertising
3) It is likely to split the Democratic party if Clinton continues with her "scorched earth" advertising campaign
The fact of the matter is that even with the wins for Clinton yesterday, she still can't get the delegate count she would need without convincing practically all the uncommitted Super Delegates to vote for her. I don't think she can do that.
God, I wish she would accept defeat gracefully. But, it's not likely she will do that. She's so ego bound in winning she is willing to trash the Democratic Party and this country in order to "win".
March 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pmIt may even come down to the Puerto Rican caucus on June 7. This is getting very interesting.
Comment by good_golly
No it won't. Even if Hillary won all the remaining states with big numbers, she still won't have the delegate count she needs to win. And that is highly unlikely to happen. If she refuses to give up, it will come down to a brokered convention and probably a seriously split Democratic party.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:03 pmLike him or hate him, good golly has a point about the flip flopping thing. It was a republican tactic that users here have used against mccain, with no remorse.
Comment by Repunklicans
You seem to miss the point......it's not that they are flip flopping....its that they made such a big deal out of it in the past and now they are doing it.....as usual with republicans it's the hypocracy...
you understand? Like closeted gay republicans who sponsor anti-gay legislation......
March 5th, 2008 at 12:04 pmNo, I caught that point. The other point is that Democrats were outraged by the accusation that Kerry was flip flopping, and were all pissed off that such accusations were working to discredit him in the election, and now are using it against Republicans.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:06 pmI’m just sayin, Ralph, don’t count your chickens before they hatch. I want Obama to win….Billary is going to do all they can to tear his heart out, and you know it.
Comment by Keltoi
You know Keltoi, if you want us to think you are not just another Republican troll, you should stop using their talking points like calling Hillary Clinton "Billary". You can point out where you disagree with Senator Clinton without resorting to using Republican talking points. As long as you continue to do that, we will continue to view you as a Republican troll.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:08 pmThis is modern politics, a down and dirty game, and Clinton is showing some of the nasty that will be needed. She is not taking down the party, that will be up to you voters who think that losing in ‘00 and ‘04 by being civil and polite was OK. it wasn’t.
Comment by Lefty Patriot
You don't have a problem with her acting more like Republicans (i.e. Karl Rove) than a Democrat? You don't have a problem with her darkening Obama's skin color in an ad? You don't have a problem with her running what sounds like a new announcement to distort Obama's position on Nafta? You don't have a problem with her using fear mongering with her "3 a.m." ad? You don't have a problem with her telling the world that only she and McCain are qualified to lead?
You don't think that all of the above is going to hurt the Democratic party in the end? If you don't think so, then you are seriously deluded. What you are saying is you like Hillary because she acts like a Republican. Most of us dislike Hillary because she acts like a Republican.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pmNo, I caught that point. The other point is that Democrats were outraged by the accusation that Kerry was flip flopping, and were all pissed off that such accusations were working to discredit him in the election, and now are using it against Republicans.
Comment by Repunklicans
Well, why not. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The difference, though, is that McCain is truly a flip-flopper and panderer extrodinaire wherein Kerry was someone who changed his position, over time, due to changing circumstances.
Also, I don't believe that Democrats were outraged at the accusation that Kerry was a flip-flopper, they were outraged by the fact that the Republicans were lying.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:15 pmCongratulations to Dennis Kucinich on winning the Democratic Primary for his Congressional Seat.
At least someone with some backbone is in there.
Bush/Cheney
March 5th, 2008 at 12:16 pmHague Trials '09
Running a primary to its end because there are 2 good candidates is not a bad thing.
Comment by tombaker — March 5, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
I agree. I made this point yesterday. A tight race for the duration of the campaign keeps both candidates in the forefront of the news cycle. Meanwhile, Grampa McCain will have to score the endorsement of the Ku Klux Klan in order to get noticed by the media (not counting their daily prayers of worship to His Saintliness).
A tight race also drives fundraising for longer periods of time -- sure to increase the Democrats' already significant advantage in that area.
Also, the candidate who prevails will have been severely tested in a campaign, and his or her staff will have a solid foundation for defending the candidate, and will have the swelling of support that comes with unifying a party behind a single standard-bearer, and will have that "surge" later in the campaign than Grampa.
The wild card is Hillary's drive for power -- is she going to prove to be a win-at-all-cost kind of gal? Or will she have the best interests of the party and the nation at heart if and when it becomes clear that an Obama candidacy is what Democrats want and what gives them the best chance for retaking the White House?
March 5th, 2008 at 12:16 pmIt is a bit more subtle than that ralph. Several posters on this site have referred to the Republican nominee as a “flip flopper,†thus taking the position that “flip flopping†is a bad thing, and have taken to use of “flip flop†phrases like “fish on deck.â€
Comment by good_golly — March 5, 2008 @ 11:22 am
Ah. So it's NOT a case of Gigi pointing out the failures of Obama to live up to Gigi's standards.
It's "more subtle" than that. Gigi HAS no standards. She just seeks to ridicule Democrats whenever she thinks she sees an opportunity. Gigi has no principles, just jollies.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Ralph Hussein Wonder Llama
March 5th, 2008 at 12:20 pmAs long as you continue to do that, we will continue to view you as a Republican troll.
Comment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 12:08 pm
He is a troll, Bilbo. Before the SS Botch&Co took on so much water and sank w/out a trace, taking all hands down, he was endlessly caustic and sneering here. As it became clearer that Dubya had shat the bed to an incredible degree, Li'l Special K here tried gittin' all friendly 'n nicey-nicey 'n "Can't we just be friends?"
Now, w/ the least little edge to clamp onto or sore spot to dig into, he reverts to his blood-sucking tick routine so F-in' fast...
Once a troll... ALWAYS a troll!!!!!
March 5th, 2008 at 12:21 pmYou don’t think that all of the above is going to hurt the Democratic party in the end? If you don’t think so, then you are seriously deluded. What you are saying is you like Hillary because she acts like a Republican. Most of us dislike Hillary because she acts like a Republican.
Comment by bilbobaggins
I may be deluded but I think that you repeating Rush Limpballs rhetoric here is not helping us win this election.....I don't think the party division will be any greater than extremists on either side make it.....
we have two excellent candidates.......some people obviously like each of them for thier own reasons....
March 5th, 2008 at 12:22 pmMcMaverick's "head start" is going to amount to him sticking his foot in his mouth daily while lots of people discuss the question of his checkered, adulterous, opportunist past and his lobbyist pandering present.
At the same time, "team players" like Cornyn will weep and moan about how he was their last choice, and the am radio nazis will flame him every time he tries to reach out for independent voters.
When the RNC sends in their "pros" to take over his campaign, he'll get fussy and indignant and that will further rankle his demeanor on the campaign trail, giving everyone the clear message that he's a dangerous old reactionary kook (which he is).
A good High School Class President could beat John McCain.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:24 pmShut up already. Every politician flip flops to make their opinion advantageous to them. Obama flip flops, McCain flip flops, Hillary flip flops, Bush flip flops. Get over it. It’s politics.
Comment by Repunklicans
And you are an idiot troll in that you don't understand the difference between changing your opinion on a topic as circumstances change over time and changing your opinion overnight and from day to day so that you can pander to whatever audience you are currently speaking too. John McBush has changed his position on every substantiative issue since he started running for President. He has done this only to attract the NeoCon votes.
If Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton were changing their positions daily on issues in order to pander to an audience, I would have a hard time voting for either of them. But they have not, and McBush has.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:27 pmwe have two excellent candidates…….some people obviously like each of them for thier own reasons….
Comment by Fred — March 5, 2008 @ 12:22 pm
I agree. I'll vote for either of 'em. While I will admit Hillary is pissing me off as of recent (her tactics reek of desperation), I don't think its entirely fair to discount all of the people who are voting for her nor do I believe she should just have to quit and give Obama the nomination.
We should not forget - this is politics. Once the nominee becomes evident, Obama and Hillary will get amnesia and will promptly forget anything negative they have said about the other.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:30 pmi was just informed of something i hadn't realized before, via edschultz...
last night hillary congratulated mcCREEPY on his win...
she has yet to congratulate barack hussein obama, at all...
now, i don't care what the excuse is, there is no GOOD one for that...
March 5th, 2008 at 12:31 pm...
now, i don’t care what the excuse is, there is no GOOD one for that…
…
Comment by katy — March 5, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
I heard a voice clip on the radio this morning of that. Creeped me out too.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pmNope. The best is yet to come. This is just a preview.
Comment by good_golly
Oh...we're all so scared. goon_golly is on the warpath. It is going to destroy us all. We should all run and hide under our beds. What...no room? We'll have to get all the scared spitless Republicans out from under our beds to fit.
Ignore the idiot troll. It says nothing, means nothing and effects nothing.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:47 pmThat 3:00 ad makes me want to puke!
I'm trying to talk myself into actually voting for her if she wins the nomination... The longer she carries keeps this bullsh!t up, the less likely I can pull that lever.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:47 pmI don’t think its entirely fair to discount all of the people who are voting for her nor do I believe she should just have to quit and give Obama the nomination.
We should not forget - this is politics. Once the nominee becomes evident, Obama and Hillary will get amnesia and will promptly forget anything negative they have said about the other.
Comment by dim wit
I see, you think it is just fine for Hillary to continue her scorched earth campaign and fear mongering? You don't think that will affect the Democrats at all? You may be right that once the nominee is evident the Democrats will have amnesia. The problem is, the Republicans won't.
It is already evident who the nominee should be. The only way that Hillary can win the nomination without some pretty dirty politics is if she wins ALL the delegates in the remaining states. We all know that is not going to happen. Hillary will destroy the Democratic party (and with it the Nation) before she will admit defeat.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:51 pmwe have two excellent candidates…….some people obviously like each of them for thier own reasons….
Comment by Fred
If you still think Hillary Clinton is an "excellent candidate" now that she is taking plays from Karl Rove, then heaven help us all.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:56 pmBTW, I think many of you are forgetting that there is a BIG difference between flip flopping and nuanced, yet congruent positions. John Kerry was blasted for flip flopping because the repubs selected statements out of context and knew that the public was too stupid to understand. Kerry's positions were consitent, he was simply too cerebral. Same could be said about Gore in 2000.
Remember, Americans want someone they can have a beer with, not someone who is smarter than them.
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March 5th, 2008 at 1:15 pmComment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
Are you actually suggesting the votes of those poeple who have yet to vote in their state's primaries shouln't count?
And I already noted Hillary is upsetting me with her tactics, but with that said, there are literally millions of people who voted for her yesterday. Sorry if you disagree with their vote, but they still get to vote for whomever they want whether it suits you or not. To think, just a few months ago you were complaining about how only a fraction of the American people get to choose the presidental nominee and now that the states towards the end of the process have a chance to decide who will win, you want to take it away from them.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:17 pmBilbo - I think you're putting too much stock in the hype getting thrown around by the punditocracy (and our concern trolls)
No one is going to "destroy" the D party.
No amount of primary campaigning is going to do any damage.
No amount of Chris Matthews' hysterics is going to change what happens in November either, as much as he'd like to believe otherwise.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:25 pmwhatever, Mr. Golly - look what the R cat managed to drag in (besides a pack of crazy losers).
game over.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:26 pmwe have two excellent candidates…….some people obviously like each of them for thier own reasons….
Comment by Fred
Or perhaps, people obviously dislike each of them for their own reasons.
Comment by good_golly — March 5, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
Or perhaps, some people like them and some people dislike them. For their own reasons.
Oh, wow! Gigi spoke a half-truth! We should congratulate her. That's the closest she's ever come to the truth.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:26 pmbildo, I posted this earlier after reading the hysteria on the Clinton wins Ohio primary thread. Please bear with me as I try to express my feeling on this issure:
My Grandfather was a democrat, my father was a democrat…..I am a democrat. One of the first things I learned in life was that what they teach you in civics class about ignoring the party and vote for the best man is bull.
If I don’t like the democrats then I will work to change them. I will not vote or enable a republican out of spite…..ever
Any democrat will do more for American citizens by accident than any republican will do for them on purpose.
The description of a split in the Democratic Party right now is imaginary and by design…..of the right…..don’t fall for it. You guys are a lot more upset about it than the average American.
those who say Hillary is a war monger……..I never fear and have no reason to believe that Hillary would ever have invaded and occupied Iraq….sorry…don’t believe it would have happened.
As far as her health care attempt in the 90’s which many of you choose to call a failure…….I blame most of you for turning your back on her. She tried….you cannot call that a failure….she is still trying.
Mr Obama is an elegant and intelligent young man…..So was JFK. I have every faith that either of these amazing people can lead our country to a better existence than any republican…….ever.
There is a reason why the republicans were the minority party for 50 years…..you are seeing that reason now…..the American people are having to admit that now because it is actually touching their individual lives……its the economy…again….
Have faith Democrats, the future is bright……we are going to be finally given the opportunity to correct some of the the damage done by 30 years of republican influence
March 5th, 2008 at 1:34 pmThanks, Fred. You said it all, right there.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:43 pmComment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
Are you actually suggesting the votes of those poeple who have yet to vote in their state’s primaries shouln’t count?
And I already noted Hillary is upsetting me with her tactics, but with that said, there are literally millions of people who voted for her yesterday. Sorry if you disagree with their vote, but they still get to vote for whomever they want whether it suits you or not. To think, just a few months ago you were complaining about how only a fraction of the American people get to choose the presidental nominee and now that the states towards the end of the process have a chance to decide who will win, you want to take it away from them.
Comment by dim wit
Ok, let's see how many ways you can misrepresent my positions. Please show me where I said that the votes of the people yet to vote in a primary don't count. And also show he where I said I disagree with the vote. How can you disagree with how people voted.
All I am saying is that it is pretty much statistically impossible for Hillary to win enough delegates to take the nomination. And I am saying that her scorched earth tactics and fear mongering are NOT going to help the Democratic party remain united.
Personally, I believe that all elections should simply be based on the popular vote. That is the only way that one man one vote is a reality. But in today's world we have the delegate system and the reality of that system is that Hillary Clinton can't get enough delegates by the convention to lock it up. And by pushing it to the convention she is splitting the Democratic party and draining funds that they could use in the general election.
I will vote for Hillary Clinton if it comes to that, but I will be holding my nose while I do it.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:47 pmBilbo - I think you’re putting too much stock in the hype getting thrown around by the punditocracy (and our concern trolls)
No one is going to “destroy†the D party.
in November either, as much as he’d like to believe otherwise.
Comment by tombaker
I hope you are right, but I fear you are wrong. Hillary's fear mongering, blackening Obama's face and claiming that only she and McCain have the experience to lead are feeding right into the Republican play book. I don't see why you folks don't see that as alarming.
I have already, today, heard two people I work with say if Hillary Clinton is the candidate, they aren't going to vote.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:52 pmComment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
You noted: "It is already evident who the nominee should be" Considering Hillary is less than 100 delegates behind Obama, I don't see how this is so "evident" Why should Hillary be the one to quit? I imagine if Obama wanted to throw in the towel and give the nomination to Hillary, we wouldn't need to worry about a "sorched earth" policy there either.
Furthermore, you noted: "God, I wish she would accept defeat gracefully. But, it’s not likely she will do that."
Again, she is less than 100 delegates behind. What if she is to end up with more delegates than Obama? Wouldn't that make her the presumtive nominee? Should it be Obama's responsibility to accept defeat at that point?
March 5th, 2008 at 2:08 pmyep, thank you fred, tombaker, bilgobaggins, and even dimwit...
you're ALL correct...
but, i really really really do hate that hillary has turned to rove...
for example:
...THE CLIP OF HILLARY ON FOX & FRIENDS,
CHUCKLING WITH AND THANKING KARL ROVE FOR HIS SWEET
REMINDER TO HER ABOUT PRESIDENT’S BIRTHDAYS !!!
holy crap… how can she even THINK that is a good idea…
disgusting.
to be found at:
March 5th, 2008 at 2:11 pmhttp://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/hillary-lays-it-on-thick-on-fox-friends/
Found this clip from an article about Vermont's indictment votes:
"Imagine if one of the esteemed Selectmen in Brattleboro were discovered to be accepting bribes, handing out public dollars to his friends, and torturing children in the basement. Would an appropriate response be "How awful, but you know he's retiring in another year and those children are used to being tortured by now anyway?" That response is not even imaginable."
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0803/S00043.htm
March 5th, 2008 at 2:18 pmAn Op-Ed piece of Nader about economy, worth reading:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20080305/cm_usatoday/itsnotaboutmeitsaboutourbrokensystem;_ylt=AsAUx0oRos6vBoWrd39lhWn9wxIF
March 5th, 2008 at 2:25 pmYou noted: “It is already evident who the nominee should be†Considering Hillary is less than 100 delegates behind Obama, I don’t see how this is so “evident†Why should Hillary be the one to quit? I imagine if Obama wanted to throw in the towel and give the nomination to Hillary, we wouldn’t need to worry about a “sorched earth†policy there either.
Comment by dim wit
Because, if you bother to read up about it, the fact is that it is statistically impossible for Hillary to get enough delegates without winning all the remaining delegates. And even then she would come up short.
Read this and educate yourself:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-cooper/its-3-am-and-hillarys_b_89936.html
BTW, I haven't seen you condemning Hillary for her fear mongering scorched earth policies. Do you think it is OK for her to act like Karl Rove. After all, she went on Fox this morning and smiled and flirted with Rove.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:25 pmKaty - I'd like to see it all go on the high road too, but it's a "contest", so maybe that's not even possible. I'd like it better to see the 2 of them get together, now, in any combination, and devote themselves to undoing everything R in Washington in a way that consigns them to kook-on-the-streetcorner status for the rest of my life, at least.
When it comes to who I think might be better at going-after-R's-with-a-vengeance once in office, it may be that HRC would deal with them more savagely than Obama, and that's the most important thing in the world to me. Cold, hard justice for the criminals that run that thing they call a political party.
No matter what she says or how she campaigns I don't think she should be written off. If Obama's taking the flak he is from her now, imagine what her team will do to McCracker, and to the remaining R's in Congress come '09.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:50 pmand, for the record,
i am all for Obama - will be ecstatic
i am all for all the good folks who are regulars here, esp. Bilbo, Ralph, 2Mil, Zooey, Jane&Wayne, Arn, TRoS, and just everybody. the "community" is awesome, and welcome medicine in the midst of a fever-dream of R insanity.
i am D first and last (though clinton was a little R-ish for my tastes) BO or HC will have my vote as soon as the polls open. nothing either of them does or says is going to change that. it would be insane for anyone alive not to charge the polls and vote D this fall. purely insane.
it's about the R's everybody, and getting the hell rid of them. as long as they're in business, none of the rest of this really matters.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:56 pmBecause, if you bother to read up about it, the fact is that it is statistically impossible for Hillary to get enough delegates without winning all the remaining delegates. And even then she would come up short.
Read this and educate yourself:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ marc-cooper/ its-3-am-and-hillarys_b_89936.html
BTW, I haven’t seen you condemning Hillary for her fear mongering scorched earth policies. Do you think it is OK for her to act like Karl Rove. After all, she went on Fox this morning and smiled and flirted with Rove.
Comment by bilbobaggins — March 5, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
Oh please. You and the rest of the huffpo-tards are such Hopium addicts you've turned into Rove Slime Machines. You ignore that Hillary has both the popular vote and electoral vote lead with Florida and Michigan included (please don't tell me you're a Bushco tard that doesn't believe we should count votes in florida again?).
Then there's the reality that OBAMA CAN'T WIN EITHER - MORON!
March 5th, 2008 at 3:20 pmyep, thank you fred, tombaker, bilgobaggins, and even dimwit…
you’re ALL correct…
but, i really really really do hate that hillary has turned to rove…
for example:
…THE CLIP OF HILLARY ON FOX & FRIENDS,
CHUCKLING WITH AND THANKING KARL ROVE FOR HIS SWEET
REMINDER TO HER ABOUT PRESIDENT’S BIRTHDAYS !!!
holy crap… how can she even THINK that is a good idea…
disgusting.
to be found at:
http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/hillary-lays-it-on-thick-on-fox-friends/
Comment by katy — March 5, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
Yet obama is the one that has obama-for-republican websites and who's campaign adviser includes a total homophobic anti-gay nut job, while he constantly talks about his religiousness? Sorry, but why must all of you people project your republicanism on Hillary. Her voting record is nearly identical to Obama's on virtually every issue, and she has a far longer one than he does. Lighten up, and stop hating Hillary, it's really disgusting, when you support an outright bigot like obama!
March 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pmso much to say, about others, but i can't let hate's b.s. go unanswered
at this time... and i'm not very good at it, but here goes...
she was WRONG to have included florida and michigan in her totals...
those problems have not been settled yet...
she cheated in both states, and that's the only reason she can claim a "win"...
florida and michigan do need to be counted - in a 2nd attempt, a RE-DO...
STOP THE LIES. ... and the HATE.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:28 pm"hate" is the bigot.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pmR's are the bigots, and the haters. They are the enemy.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pmLighten up, and stop hating Hillary, it’s really disgusting, when you support an outright bigot like obama!
Comment by republicans hate facts — March 5, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Hillary has proved herself a liar. I would think you'd be against something like that.
~Hussein Zooey
March 5th, 2008 at 5:13 pmYet obama is the one that has obama-for-republican websites and who’s campaign adviser includes a total homophobic anti-gay nut job, while he constantly talks about his religiousness? Sorry, but why must all of you people project your republicanism on Hillary. Her voting record is nearly identical to Obama’s on virtually every issue, and she has a far longer one than he does. Lighten up, and stop hating Hillary, it’s really disgusting, when you support an outright bigot like obama!
Comment by republicans hate facts
Would you care to back up any of your idiot statements here with proof?
You are beginning to sound like a rabid dog. Does Hillary losing bother you that much? Do you really not mind Hillary's fear mongering (out of Karl Rove's playbook), race baiting (making Obama's face lighter in an advertisement and then lying about it) and especially her giving John McCain cannon fodder by saying only she and Obama have enough experience to win.
Since you are such a Hillary lover, maybe you can explain to us where all of Hillary's "foreign experience" comes from. Also, tell us about the incidents she has been involved in where she has proved her readiness to :answer the phone at 3:00 am and keep us safe".
And while you are at it, can you tell us where she gets her "35 years of experience".
March 5th, 2008 at 6:17 pmmaking Obama’s face lighter
oops, meaning "making Obama's face darker", not lighter.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:18 pmOh please. You and the rest of the huffpo-tards are such Hopium addicts you’ve turned into Rove Slime Machines. You ignore that Hillary has both the popular vote and electoral vote lead with Florida and Michigan included (please don’t tell me you’re a Bushco tard that doesn’t believe we should count votes in florida again?).
Then there’s the reality that OBAMA CAN’T WIN EITHER - MORON!
Comment by republicans hate facts
So you support giving Hillary the popular vote and the delegates from a state where his name was not even on the ballot?
And if you want to include Florida, you will have to have the election again because a lot of Democrats stayed home and didn't vote because they thought their vote wouldn't count.
As far as your contention that Obama can't win, hogwash. He beats McCain in almost every poll that is taken whereas Hillary rarely does. And, he is the one who can unify the party once the primaries are over.
There is a quote by her husband Bill that you need to think about, that is:
"If one candidate’s trying to scare you and the other one’s trying to get you to think, if one candidate’s appealing to your fears and the other one’s appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope."-Bill Clinton, 2004
So Hate, which candidate is trying to scare us, Hillary or Barak? Which candidate is appealing to our fears, Hillary or Barak?
So, if Bill Clinton meant what he said, he would recommend we all vote for Barak Obama because he is not trying to scare the pants off of us and he has a message of hope.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:24 pmthere is no "negotiating" with the republiscum about telecom immunity...you're either immune or you arent, its like negotiating with your husband about how pregnant you're going to get...they want zero accoutability, fortunately i think that either the courts or the congress isnt going to let that happen.. remember, this immunity will get challenged in court, and theres a strong argument such a challenge could succeed..
March 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pmUnfortunately, Ohio (and probably Pennsylvania and a few other states) are heavy into less- educated, blue-collar, aging white people who are latent racists, if not blatant racists.
Clinton played this to her advantage with veiled, and not so veiled personal attacks, photos, and left-handed comments about Obama.
Obama wins heavily in big cities whose populations are more diverse, better educated, and not quite so prejudiced.
(And we also have Lintball encouraging repugs to vote for Clinton so she can be beaten by McCain - not illegal, just unethical on his part.)
What people might want to think about is Clinton will NOT beat McCain in the demographics where she enjoys superiority over Obama. The states where the population is as I describe above will not choose Clinton over McCain. He will beat her.
Her campaign tactics have turned off many Democrats, so she will lose the youthful vote, the Obama supporters who resent her campaign tactics, and those who were hoping for change.
In Clinton vs. McCain -- Clinton loses.
Obama vs. McCain -- new ballgame, better odds, broader support across all Democrats and independents.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:27 pm