Former DIA Director Responds To Bush’s Torture Ban Veto: ‘I’d Fire Mike McConnell’
Former DIA Director Responds To Bush’s Torture Ban Veto: ‘I’d Fire Mike McConnell’
Today in his radio address, President Bush announced that he had vetoed the Intelligence Authorization Act, which would ban the use of waterboarding and place the CIA’s interrogation program under the dictates of the U.S. Army Field Manual.
In the past few weeks, Bush administration officials have aggressively attempted to defend the CIA’s torture techniques. The most incredible statements came from spokeswoman Dana Perino and Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell. On Feb. 14, Perino defended the veto decision by denigrating the experience of U.S. troops:
The Army Field Manual is a perfectly appropriate document that is important for young GIs, some so young that they’re not even able to legally get a drink in the states where they’re from.
Before the Senate Intelligence Committee that same day, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell echoed Perino’s comments, stating that the Army Field Manual is “designed for young and inexperienced” men and women in uniform.
ThinkProgress spoke with ret. Army Lt. Gen. Harry E. Soyster, who served as the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) during DESERT SHIELD/STORM. He called Bush’s veto a “mistake”:
I think that he will be sending an unclear message to the troops. … Gen. Petraeus has made it very clear in his letter to the troops that the standard is the Army Field Manual.
Soyster also sharply criticized McConnell’s defense of the techniques:
I would say that if Mike McConnell worked for me, I’d fire him. That is one of the weakest arguments. The Army has a lot of good training, 10-, 18-week courses at the school. And many of our interrogators have been in the Army for 28 years. They’re not 18-year old kids. […]
And the idea, in fact, these techniques [used by] the experts at the CIA — waterboarding, sleep deprivation, hypothermia, whatever those techniques are — it doesn’t take much expertise to use those. You know, dumb guys in the Middle Ages were doing the same thing. The KGB were strong on sleep deprivation. So there’s no skill required from the CIA. They may need those techniques because of their skill level. And they think that they need them.
Soyster added that one of the interrogation experts who had worked for him at the DIA laughed “at the idea that anyone would be so incompetent as to have to use any of these [torture] techniques.” Many interrogators, in fact, don’t even go to the extend that the Field Manual authorizes, “because good interrogators don’t need those techniques.”
Soyster also noted that the three-star commander in Afghanistan confirmed that the Army Field Manual “gives him everything he needs.”
UPDATE: The Gavel has responses from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), as well as other military leaders.
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These men (Bush & McConnell) are so evil it makes me shudder every time I think about them. Neither of them are going to be welcome in heaven if it exists.
I am so looking forward to becoming a country of laws, peace and compassion. That is what we will get if we elect Obama our President. Elect Clinton or McCain and we will get more of the same on this subject.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:10 amBush has now made torture legitimate and has now placed America soldiers in jeopardy of the exact same treatment.
Russia and China are taking copious notes.
Mission Accomplished.
-GSD
March 8th, 2008 at 11:10 amBush is indeed an evil creature. I won’t use the word “man” to describe this creature.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:13 amTorture thy enemies: it’s the “Christian” thing to do!
March 8th, 2008 at 11:14 amBush continues to step backwards through the important lessons of history. Not a proud day for America… nor a proud 7 years really.
~Sean
March 8th, 2008 at 11:18 amLooking at McConnell’s bad combover just makes it all the more disgusting.
-G
March 8th, 2008 at 11:22 amSo it’s official: Pres Bush condones and endorses torture.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:22 amBush is indeed an evil creature. I won’t use the word “man†to describe this creature.
Comment by VerbalKint”
I don’t know sir, I love my dog and cat, and they are creatures. I mean each to their own, but I would call Bushco a MADMAN with bold letters each time.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:23 amMcCain needs to be hammered on this point. Does he support the Prezinut’s veto? Bush is more interested in protecting his own ass than he is protecting the American people. It is obvious that waterboarding is an illegal activity that yields questionable information. This practice damages the reputation and standing of the USA. This veto damages our position in the world community. Bush doesn’t have a leg to stand on. POTUS demanding torture…..How low has the once mighty USA fallen?
March 8th, 2008 at 11:25 amI’d like to thank the shrub for completely ruining the charactor of the United States. Thank you, thank you very much.
Jesus Hussein Christ. What’s next?
March 8th, 2008 at 11:29 amThese men (Bush & McConnell) are so evil it makes me shudder every time I think about them. Neither of them are going to be welcome in heaven if it exists.
I am so looking forward to becoming a country of laws, peace and compassion. That is what we will get if we elect Obama our President. Elect Clinton or McCain and we will get more of the same on this subject.
Comment by Bilbo Hussein Baggins”
This statement had a good beat & I could dance to it. I hope everyone at least taps their toes to the ditty. Course if you are in a toilet at the airport, please refrain till you get out of the stall.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:29 amgood morning… sorry about the OT here, but once again, i’m asking for help… hopefully this time i’ll get better results…
i’m trying to find a list that i remember reading here some days ago -
a list of the warnings that bushco received prior to 9/11…
can anyone point me to that post, please? thanks!
March 8th, 2008 at 11:32 am.
.
Canada, just last week, refused to used coerced evidence obtained through TORTURE.
As reported in NewsweekThe Canadian government is no longer using evidence gained from CIA interrogations of a top Al Qaeda detainee who was waterboarded.
According to documents obtained by NEWSWEEK, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), the country’s national-security agency, last month quietly withdrew statements by alleged Al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah from public papers outlining the case against two alleged terror “sleeper” operatives in Ottawa and Montreal.
…
Copeland said the Canadian government’s decision to drop claims about Harkat and Charkaoui that came from the CIA’s interrogations of Abu Zubaydah indicates “the government of Canada, or at least the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, has concluded that everything that came from Abu Zubaydah was obtained by torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.”Yep, setting the standard for lawlessness one criminal at a time.
.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:32 amOpps, blockquotes didn’t work.
The last sentance was mine. “Yep, setting the standard for lawlessness one criminal at a time.”
March 8th, 2008 at 11:34 amBush, McConnell, Mukasey, et al, would be characters in a grade B movie - their coordinated assault on the Constitution is doing far greater harm to our democracy than any external threat from an enemy.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:39 amBush’s economic policies, coupled with the illegal and immoral quagmire he began in Iraq, and his arrogance in the world will detract from our status as a world power - our enemies will be delighted.
#3, “Bush is indeed an evil creature. I won’t use the word “man†to describe this creature.
Misanthrope?
Sociopath?
Was this signing today (Saturday) done on purpose so as to slip past most Americans?
March 8th, 2008 at 11:46 amDo we see the press hopping on the attack against our military interrogators as nothing more than 18 year old kids? Frankly, the military has more and better interrogators than the CIA. Field and headquarter interrogations of prisoners and others is a stock in trade of the Army. It has to be, it is essential in every operations. The CIA does do active operations, however, my guess would be that since the end of the Cold War and 9/11, there would have been little need for a massive interrogation staff. 9/11, Afghanistan and Iraq created the need to greatly expand interrogation staffs at all levels. However, the Army would have had a fairly extensive cadre of trained and experienced interrogators. The CIA would not creating the need to use contract labor. To a large extent, the military resisted the use of such techniques. Bushco had to remove the service TJAGS from the process since they refused to agree with definitions of torture and applicability of Geneva Conventions. It took pressure from Rummy down through the command and vague guidance to get field interrogators into the act. Additionally, GTMO standards were taught to the field. Oh, are we not proud.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:53 am“Was this signing today (Saturday) done on purpose so as to slip past most Americans?
Comment by Marie”
As always the most replusive news comes out from Fri. at 4:00 to Sat. at 4:00.
obtusehussianman
March 8th, 2008 at 11:54 amBush and his collaborators are now officially War Criminals.
He has just lowered the US to the status of the Stasi which will make us even more popular with the rest of the world. Hard to go below zero.
As long as these lunatics are allowed to roam free (?) we all will be in danger not so much for attack physically but as an international low-life to be avoided at all costs unless you’re here to buy up what’s left - cheap.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:54 amHey Pelosi and Reid,
March 8th, 2008 at 11:55 amHow is it over at your table over there? Ours over here has a lot of TRAITORS on it, can you maybe come on over to reality every so often and sit at OUR TABLE?
We have our nooses all ready for the traitors.
ARREST, TRY, HANG
Good for General Soyster! Virtually 100 percent of military intelligence officers, active or like me, retired, as well as JAG officers, want no part of torture. It is immoral, against international law and doesn’t work.
I have never been able to figure out why Bush and his neocon enablers are so enthralled with torturing prisoners. Since they have proven their cowardice by avoiding wartime service, I suppose the think it makes them appear macho. Nothing like inflicting pain on someone completely under your control!
I would like to have a few days with them to practice on them what they preach, starting with a little gentle waterboarding.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:59 amMike McConnell echoed Perino’s comments, stating that the Army Field Manual is “designed for young and inexperienced†men and women in uniform.
Then it is the duty of troops to report torture or disobey an order to aid or facilitate torture (Troops can disobey an unlawful order). Bush and McConnell are sending conflicting orders into the field by this decision and Congress MUST override the veto.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:03 pmTorture is unamerican. Waterboarding is banned by international treaties that we have signed and are therefore law. Testimony obtained by waterboarding is not admissible in a court of law. If Bush was just some drunk in a bar he could cheerlead for torture all he wants, but he is President of the United States. This veto cannot stand. Can the USA survive the days left of this administration?
March 8th, 2008 at 12:04 pmWas this signing today (Saturday) done on purpose so as to slip past most Americans?
Comment by Marie — March 8, 2008 @ 11:46 am
Goes without saying.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:04 pmComment by katy
Is this the one Katy?
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2008/ 03/ 07/ david-kay-condi-rice/
“Bin Ladin Public Profile May Presage Attack†(May 3)
“Terrorist Groups Said Co-operating on US Hostage Plot†(May 23)
“Bin Ladin’s Networks’ Plans Advancing†(May 26)
“Bin Ladin Attacks May Be Imminent†(June 23)
“Bin Ladin and Associates Making Near-Term Threats†(June 25)
“Bin Ladin Planning High-Profile Attacks†(June 30)
“Planning for Bin Ladin Attacks Continues, Despite Delays†(July 2)
March 8th, 2008 at 12:06 pmthank you, fred!
i was just coming back to say that i may have found the list at the
Zelikow/Richard Clarke thread of yesterday - the one you point to!
i sure thought i’d read it before yesterday, and in the comments,
but that is exactly what i need… too much more and the poor idjit
i hope to inform would surely melt…
thanks!
March 8th, 2008 at 12:12 pmBush is phlegm. I’d call him scum, but scum floats.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:12 pmtoo much more and the poor idjit
i hope to inform would surely melt…
Comment by katy
I don’t know, facts seem to just bounce off of some of them…….good luck.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:15 pmWhere does McCain stand, or can he bothered to vote? Maybe if a blonde with million mile eyes asks him.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:16 pmWhy doesn’t congress just over ride the veto?
Comment by Rodham Gin
We will take care of it once the obstrutionist republicans are sent home..for another 40 years in the minority….
March 8th, 2008 at 12:19 pmSo the experts associate torture with lack of skill. Time and again this describes the Republicans in all areas.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:22 pmOctober 26, 2007
Rudolph W. Giuliani’s statement on Wednesday that he was uncertain whether waterboarding, a simulated drowning technique, was torture drew a sharp rebuke yesterday from Senator John McCain, who said that his failure to call it torture reflected his inexperience.
However McCain voted against the bill.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:23 pmI have reason for concerns that the administration’s use of renditioning and detaining prisoners is far more extensive than is publicly perceived. These concerns are being detailed at http://timelikethis.blogspot.com/
March 8th, 2008 at 12:24 pmWhy doesn’t congress just over ride the veto?
Comment by Rodham Gin
Why did the little AWOL coward COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA
VETO it in the FIRST place??
Oh, right…
Another Chickenhawk who avoided Vietnam, who tries to act “tough”.
I hope Bush’s MASTER Satan SMASHED HIS FACE IN EVERY SECOND FOR ETERNITY.
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
McHussein NRA Gun Nut(e)s
“WHO’S ’sane’, HUSSEIN?
March 8th, 2008 at 12:26 pmNOT ‘Bomb Boimb Iran’ McCain!!”
So, how did your senators vote? If they don’t appear in the two lists below, they voted “Yea.” We would all do well to contact them, as well as those on the other two lists in preparation for an anticipated override attempt within the next week or two. Of the three remaining presidential candidates, McCain voted in favor of torture–Obama, Clinton, as well as Graham (R-SC) and McCaskill (D-MO) abstained. And then there is Sen. Ben Nelson (D) who voted for torture, perhaps following in the footsteps of Holy Joe, who seems to be polishing his credentials for a VP nod or cabinet position in a potential McCain administration.
To see for yourself, go to http://www.senate.gov/ legislative/ LIS/ roll_call_lists/ roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00022 and to see how your house member voted, go to (the house website is extremely user unfriendly in this regard) http://www.opencongress.org/roll_call/show/2243
NAYs —45
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-NE)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wicker (R-MS)
Not Voting - 4
Clinton (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Obama (D-IL)
“The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.” ~James Madison
March 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pmHowever McCain voted against the bill.
Comment by leftcoast — March 8, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
FLIP FLOP, bottom of the class. looney tunes.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:28 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2008/ 03/ 08/ AR2008030800304.html?hpid=topnews
Poor Gin. It tries so hard to stir up dissent. It knows that the reason that we’re not getting our laws passed is because of the ‘Up Or Down GOP’ obstructionists in congress.
Those latest polls now show both HRC AND Obama trumphing McCain in the General. What must that say to poor Gin. Hell, what must that say to the paid righties who come in posing as hard-core Obamaites and Clintonites, saying they won’t vote for the other candidate. And what of poor Rush Limbaugh, who wanted Clinton in because an earlier poll showed McCain beating her.
Could it be the harder the OverTroll that controls the sock puppets Gin, Good_Golly, Bert, et al pushes, the more it turns the public off of its appointed dictator?
Ah, poor Gin. It tries so hard, and still, it just can’t get no satisfaction.
See ya at the polls in November, buttmunch.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:29 pmWe all know the real reason Bush vetoed the ban on waterboarding. He’s a sadist. And the “destroyed videos” of waterboarding? He has them. He probably masturbates to them every night.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:32 pmLet’s just fire the chymp and call it good.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:41 pmLet’s just fire the chymp and call it good.
Comment by RUCerious — March 8, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
Let’s fire the clown out of a cannon. :-)
March 8th, 2008 at 12:43 pmBush said that Iraq possessed stockpiles of WMD, they didn’t have any. Bush said that ‘the USA does not torture’. The USA does torture! It did use torture in South America and Central America. It uses torture in Iraq and Afeganistan. The USA does torture.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:43 pmThis is admitted PROOF that BUSH IS A WAR CRIMINAL, he has admitted on TV that the CIA has used WATER TORTOUR and claimed that it has stopped attacks.
If it had really stopped attacks they would have been broadcasting that on all their Reichwinger Radio and TV Stations, he is lying, of course.
I will keep calling and mailing my Senators and congressman to bring WAR CRIMES charges against Bush and Cheney. I will also write and mail who ever is the next President to bring WAR CRIME charges against them.
This is SICK, this is WRONG, this is IMMORAL, this is REPUBLICAN.
Buck Hussein Fush
March 8th, 2008 at 12:49 pmjb - in answer to McCain’s stance on Bush’s veto…he encouraged and supports it.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/ news/ 2008/ 02/ mccain_bush_should_veto_tortur.php
I saw “Rendition” a couple of days ago and would recommend it highly to everyone, especially (on the DVD) the bonus feature entitled “Outlawed,” which interviews individuals who were kidnaped under the U.S. policy of Extraordinary Rendition (started by the way in 1995 under the Clinton Administration) who were TORTURED!!!
March 8th, 2008 at 12:55 pmthis is encouraging….even if they fail at least make the effort and make it public. From Speaker Pelosi’s statement about the veto:
Also a long list of Military Officials condeming torture…
http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=1190
March 8th, 2008 at 12:56 pm…..but, but, but I just heard CNN call it only “harsh interrogation techniques”.
Maybe it’s not torture if it’s not called torture.
A∞Ω
March 8th, 2008 at 12:56 pmRe: Comment #39 –
Although this information surfaced as far back as May 21, 2000, the following New York Times article (in the March 8, 2008) edition couldn’t be more timely.
The story makes reference to an interview with Terry Throckmorton, a childhood friend of George W. Bush, which includes the following excerpts:
”We were terrible to animals,” recalled Mr. Throckmorton, laughing. A dip behind the Bush home turned into a small lake after a good rain, and thousands of frogs would come out.
”Everybody would get BB guns and shoot them,” Mr. Throckmorton said. ”Or we’d put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up.”
When he was not blowing up frogs, young George — always restless and something of a natural leader — would lead neighborhood children on daredevil expeditions around town, seeing how close they could come to breaking their necks. George also quickly acquired a colorful vocabulary.
”Georgie has grown to be a near-man, talks dirty once in a while and occasionally swears, aged 4 and a half,” his father despaired in a letter to a friend in 1951. In another letter four years later, he lamented: ”Georgie aggravates the hell out of me at times.”
Having worked in a professional capacity with mentally ill offenders for more than three decades, the following guidance has become increasingly clear over the years: THE BEST PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR. In George W. Bush’s case, this couldn’t be more true. And we can only imagine what kinds of activities Darth Cheney engaged in as a child (perhaps, “Friday the 13th” on steroids?).
March 8th, 2008 at 12:58 pmComment by Fred — March 8, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
Did she say anything about reasserting moral authority by upholding her oath of office?
March 8th, 2008 at 1:00 pmWe have been here before and it was a disaster then just as it is now. How can you say they are old enough to pick up arms and shoot to kill and have the judgment to do that but they are not wise enough to drink…..1969 redux…….they should not be doing either. They are someone’s child.
If we are defending our country then we will all go….all ages not just our children…
March 8th, 2008 at 1:03 pmComment by Fred — March 8, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
Did she say anything about reasserting moral authority by upholding her oath of office?
Comment by Zooey
You’re killin me Zooey……I was as surprised as anyone that she was willing to say what she did about the veto but at least she did….maybe she will get the message before it’s too late…..we can only hope.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:05 pmFred, read this. It’s heartbreaking.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:08 pmBush says “we don’t torture.” Then why would he have a problem banning it if we don’t do it anyway? My guess is because he’s an out of touch with reality, sadistic liar.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:09 pm…maybe she will get the message before it’s too late…..we can only hope.
Comment by Fred — March 8, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
It’s already too late — for her. Maybe for this country…maybe.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:12 pmComment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
Speaking of clowns, why aren’t you a “Clinton” Gin?
March 8th, 2008 at 1:17 pmAnd who would know better about water torture than this clown.
Comment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
Kennedy was a veteran. Bush an AWOL coward.
And Bush would beat Kennedy in an ALCOHOL-TORTURE contest. Because of all the OTHER dope he does. Besides “Jeff Gannon”, that is.
“You’re either WITH Bush and McCain OR
You’re with the USA and the TRUTH!!”
“WHO’S ’sane’, HUSSEIN?
March 8th, 2008 at 1:18 pmNOT ‘Bomb Bomb Iran’ McCain!!”
Fred, read this. It’s heartbreaking.
Comment by Zooey
I couldn’t finish it in one reading……..we all knew this was what was going to happen when this started….I cried the night of shock and awe…..my full grown children did not fully grasp my despair at the time…..I’m one of the lucky ones. I have a good wife who has helped me more than I can say. It has been hard for her I know.
This is the part that people just don’t seem to understand…it is inconcievable to me that we have learned nothing…
I’m just looking for any bright spot on the horizon zooey. I watched Sicko last night and it just depressed me more because we are so far from being a decent and civilized society. The movie points it out dramatically and makes it perfectly clear that it is possible and is within our reach…..we just for some reason reject it…….
March 8th, 2008 at 1:21 pmAnd who would know better about water torture than this clown.
Comment by Rodham Gin
You diparage a man of true integrity while defending a traitor who said the constitution was just a piece of paper….you make yourself irrelivant.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:27 pmI wonder if TRAITOR Bush actually BELIEVES that Jesus will be recommending him for Heaven to the Almighty God.
Consider his LIES, GENOCIDE and BLASPHEMY, Jesus is likely to recommend Bush to his new MASTER Satan when the time comes.
“WHO’S ’sane’, HUSSEIN?
March 8th, 2008 at 1:30 pmNOT ‘Bomb Bomb Iran’ McCain!!”
So what’s the big deal if these measures are not required?
Comment by Frank M
no one here expects you to understand about moral authority. You have proven too many times that you are without a soul.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:30 pmComment by Fred — March 8, 2008 @ 1:21 pm
I remember the night of shock and awe, just sitting there watching the night vision bombing and saying over and over, “This is the wrong war. What are they doing?” Both of my men are draft age, and they are as against this war as I am, thank goodness, but it breaks my heart that anyone’s children are being used by this ugly war machine.
We can be a great society, but will we? Whatever this country decides, Fred, we will be witnesses to it.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:30 pmComment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
Speaking of clowns, why aren’t you a “Clinton†Gin?
Comment by Zooey
How about a Hillary Rove Clinton Gin?
That’s what I will be calling Clinton from now on since she has adopted Rovian tactics.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:30 pmComment by Frank M — March 8, 2008 @ 1:24 pm
Still doesn’t get it, does it?
Is it really this dense, or just deliberately obtuse?
George Botch’s US of A… right on par w/ the Inquisition, the Nazis, and the Khmer Rouge…
March 8th, 2008 at 1:33 pmI have reason for concerns that the administration’s use of renditioning and detaining prisoners is far more extensive than is publicly perceived.
Comment by Trevor Wynne — March 8, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Gee, ya think? Considering how much Botch & Co lie about every and anything, that’s pretty much a given.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pmAnd of course Mary Jo couldn’t be reached for comment.
“Diane Rodham Ginâ€
Comment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
And neither could the 4000 US soldiers DEAD in Iraq for the LIES and ILLEGAL WAR of MURDER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR.
BURN IN HELL, MURDERER Bush.
With TRAITOR Ronnie HUSSEIN Reagan, already DEAD and BURNING!!!
March 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pm“Diane Rodham Ginâ€
Comment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
Saddam Gin.
Oops! That’s wrong, as far as I know….
March 8th, 2008 at 1:35 pmAnd of course Mary Jo couldn’t be reached for comment.
“Diane Rodham Ginâ€
Comment by Rodham Gin
one mistake causing a regretable and regreted death does not compare the the death cause by your leader in the name of oil and power……go get under a rock so I can’t see you.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:35 pmGeorge HUSSEIN Bush, Son of Satan.
Business partner to the Bin Ladens.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:36 pmRonald HUSSEIN Reagan
George HUSSEIN Bush
Richard HUSSEIN Cheney
Karl HUSSEIN Rove
The list of unamerikkkan TRAITORS goes on and on…
March 8th, 2008 at 1:39 pmComment by Fred — March 8, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
The comment also has nothing to do w/ the particulars of the moment, Fred. To go back to that incident and use it as a reason to denigrate Kennedy’s support of legislation banning torture just shows the troll has NO REAL argument or justification for Botch’s veto.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:40 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity
Excellent point RoS. I forget what they are here for.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:45 pmT’anks, Fred. I sometimes get so caught up in playing Whack-a-Trollâ„¢ I fergit certain t’ings meself. I hafta say, it’s ever so stasifyin’ ta plant one foot and really unload one on a troll, huh?
Time out over… resume play!
March 8th, 2008 at 1:49 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 8, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
The troll’s comment is also a distraction from the fact that, regardless of Kennedy’s moral, ethical standing, and whether or not you like him as a person, torture is still wrong.
But it’s a typical argument from all kinds of Bush supporters: If Pres Bush is on the wrong, all they have to do is find a fault on his critics, hence making this administration’s misdeeds ok, in their tiny little minds.
Two-wrongs-make-a-right symmetrising kind of mind set. Truly bizarre.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:50 pmI’m flagging you Gin.
Besides Soros didn’t fund anyone to attack the United States so you are really just babbling.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:50 pmTwo-wrongs-make-a-right symmetrising kind of mind set. Truly bizarre.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 8, 2008 @ 1:50 pm
Bull’s eye, Gregor.
Please feel free to step up to the counter and select yer prize.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:52 pmComment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
Speaking of two wrongs make a right…
March 8th, 2008 at 1:52 pmBusiness partner to the Bin Ladens.
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — March 8, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
Along with George Soros who just happened to help fund this little website.
“Diane Rodham Ginâ€
Comment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
REALLY?
Show us where Soros has ANY connection to the Bin Ladens.
The TREASONOUS Bush family, however, has 30 YEARS of partnership with the Bin Ladens.
Salim Bin Laden was with GHW Bush at a Carlyle Group meeting in DC on 9/11.
The Bin Ladens were flown out of the country by the Bushes on 9/13, when commercial flights were banned.
So, give us the PROOF of Soros linked to Bin Laden.
The TREASONOUS Bushes already HAVE been linked.
McHUSSEIN NRA Gun Nut(e)s
“WHO’S ’sane’, HUSSEIN?
March 8th, 2008 at 1:55 pmNOT ‘Bomb Bomb Iran’ HUSSEIN McCain!!”
“…some so young that they’re not even able to legally get a drink in the states where they’re from.â€
This ignorant statement emphasizes the stupidity that is Dana Perino. Let’s see, now why is it impossible for anyone under 21 to drink legally in this country? Oh, now I remember:
“In July 1984 Congress passed a bill requiring all states to enforce a minimum drinking age of 21, or they would lose their federal highway funding as punishment.â€
http://web.syr.edu/~su4rally/age_history.html
Let’s try another argument, shall we Dumb Dana? And please, please, please try and not come up with one that is as stupid as all of the ones that have come before it. I know that’s asking a lot, but you don’t have much time left to make your desired place in history and the clock is ticking.
(Teh Stupid is strong within this one. Geebus.)
Fitzgerald Hussein Roket
March 8th, 2008 at 1:58 pmAnything it takes.
Comment by Frank M — March 8, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Yer a fraud. Torture reduces us to the level of the Nazis and Khmer Rouge.
Yo aren’t any safer. You just get a chubby from thinking about.
PUTRID!!!
March 8th, 2008 at 2:03 pm#60: Nonsense, but I’d gladly trade my soul for more security for Americans. Anything it takes.
Comment by Frank M
Hit me!! Respond to me!!
March 8th, 2008 at 2:03 pmhard up for cash Frank? Here’s 10 cents for ya.
Anything it takes.
Comment by Frank M — March 8, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
This just in from Fascist Frank.
**eyes rolling**
Crawl back under your dripping piss-soaked bed, troll.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:04 pmALL you RapeubliNazis traded your SOUL long ago.
MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA is PROOF.
When he DROPS DEAD, he will join his MASTER Satan, as well as TRAITOR Ronnie Reagan, now DEAD and BURNING, and STILL senile…
March 8th, 2008 at 2:04 pmThe troll’s “anything it takes” safety includes tossing democracy out the window, because “it has never worked”.
The troll’s dream “safe” society would even keep us “safe” from dissent and free speech, apparently.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:07 pmHeh. Nice to see a strong reaction from the common decency crowd on TP. :)
~Hussein Zooey
March 8th, 2008 at 2:07 pmYou’re throwing rocks from a glass house, Saddam Gin.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:37 pmAnd of course Mary Jo couldn’t be reached for comment.
“Diane Rodham Ginâ€
Comment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
And of course a car accident is the same as committing torture. Your stretching and reaching is stll going to lead to democratic super-majorities in the House and Senate, and a Democrat in the White house. we all understand the desperation of a rightard watching it all go down the shitter, along with the GOP, and I am getting a good chuckle from your death throes. You, along with the other fascist coward Frank M, have a better chance of survival if you enlist and head to Iraq. of course, that would demand courage and patriotism, which you’ve ceded to the left.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:43 pmSaddam Gin is right on the money, as is Saddam Bush, Saddam Rice and Saddam Cheney. Saddam McCain will fit, as well,except the old fart will disappear into the bowels of history after losing 50 states in november.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:45 pm#60: Nonsense, but I’d gladly trade my soul for more security for Americans. Anything it takes.
Comment by Frank M — March 8, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
I cannot think of a better example than your sorry , stupid ass , that fits that quote ……..
March 8th, 2008 at 2:46 pmAnd of course Mary Jo couldn’t be reached for comment.
“Diane Rodham Ginâ€
Comment by Rodham Gin — March 8, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
Was Laura Shrub’s ex-boyfriend available for comment , skid mark ?
March 8th, 2008 at 2:51 pmSloe Gin Saddam is pretty wobbly today. They must have reduced her to 7.5 cents per post. Poor thing.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:58 pmClearly the USA has become the new Fascists. The Cheney-Bush presidency is a stain on this republic and dishonors all who have served in US forces.
March 8th, 2008 at 3:00 pmSometimes I wonder if the Bush supporters who pollute the threads at ThinkProgress are naturally stupid, or if they have to take some sort of training course to learn to act like absolute brain-deads.
These two options are not mutually exclusive, of course.
(Someone needs to explain to me how Soros’ business practices are the moral equivalent to Pres Bush’s attempts at legalising torture, or how Soros is relevant to this thread)
March 8th, 2008 at 3:03 pmNonsense, but I’d gladly trade my soul for more security for Americans. Anything it takes.
Comment by Frank M — March 8, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
except enlist. I won’t trade my body for safety, just my soul, which I’m not using anyway. Frank M
March 8th, 2008 at 3:13 pmWhat value is a soul? Corrected for current dollars of course.
March 8th, 2008 at 3:22 pmThe Cheney-Bush presidency is a stain on this republic…
Comment by Doc Rock — March 8, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
Boy… tell me about it. You should see my dry cleaning bills.
March 8th, 2008 at 3:25 pmCorrected for current dollars of course.
Comment by dbadass — March 8, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
I’m sorry, but I would only take Euros at this point…
March 8th, 2008 at 3:29 pmNew campaign slogan.
John McCain: Blurring the line between maniac and megalomaniac.
March 8th, 2008 at 3:30 pmThe person who said: Bush has made torture acceptable is exactly right. The enemy now has the right to torture our soldiers and make videos of them being killed. The problem with evil men is that they do evil things to people in the name of protecting the citizens. I my opinion both these men are “war criminals” and should be prosecuted at The Hague for “Crimes Against Humanity”. The weak democrats have allowed the very morals which this country was founded on to be twisted and so preverted that they bear part of the responsibility too. I served this country for 11 years and I taught soldiers in the Rules of War and part of it was the 5 S’s. They were Search, Silence, Secure, Segregate, Safe guard, and take them to the rear.
Thoses principles had served our soldiers well until this power crazed evil doorer and his henchment too power. The American people also bare responsiblity for the crimes they have committed. Why? Because we stand by and don’t demand that the Congress take action. I have consistently contacted my member of Congress and other to demand that they impeach this fool. But they are cowards who only pay lip serve to me because I stand alone in try to bring out our finer angels. All of those who remain silent after reading this, must approve or disapprove of torture and the job they are doing. I know that thousands of others have tried in vein to stop this too, I’m not the only one.
The people who now support Sen. John McCain are about to lead America down a far more dangerous road. This man is not fit to be President based on being a “Hot head”, which is how he was described by Sen Thad Cochran and others from his own party. They made the statement: He scares me when he loses it.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:18 pmDid gin get banned and then come back as Rodham Gin? Doesn’t matter, it is still as vapid as it was in the first incarnation.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:29 pmComment by The Shadow — March 8, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
You nailed it. What these fools can’t comprehend is that we must treat all prisoners humanely for our own benefit. Not to mention being the right thing to do.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:42 pmNonsense, but I’d gladly trade my soul for more security for Americans. Anything it takes.
Comment by Frank M — March 8, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Since Francine knows it has no soul, this is a meaningless offer. Funny how it is willing to trade it’s soul but not put it’s money where it’s mouth is and enlist. Or, if it’s too old, it can join one of the contractors and go to Iraq and make lots of money. That sounds more like it’s style.
March 8th, 2008 at 5:12 pmComment by impeachcheneythenbush — March 8, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
I just rented that last week, also — I recommend it, too.
March 8th, 2008 at 5:22 pm#50, zooey,
March 8th, 2008 at 5:30 pmThat letter is heartrending; I am still crying for all of them.
Nonsense, but I’d gladly trade my soul for more security for Americans. Anything it takes.
Comment by Frank M — March 8, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Is it OK if our enemies waterboard our troops?
March 8th, 2008 at 5:48 pm.
Dear Franken Troll,
When the President of the USA does it, does that make it legal?
When a horrific act is perpetrated, does that justify my use of horrific acts then? IE, can I use the fact that murder happens as justification for committing murder? O.K. I’ll tame it down for you, how about rape? Too violent, then what about theft?
See, do two wrongs then make it right?
What does one become when they justify what they’ve done based off the egregious acts of others?
So, I CAN torture other people because other people torture? Haven’t I just joined their ranks?
Having pity for you right about now is difficult because to NOT take pitty is to wish upon you, the same horrors you support. And I’m a better person than that.
May God have mercy on you.
.
March 8th, 2008 at 7:38 pm