McCain spiritual adviser: ‘Allah was a demon spirit.’
McCain spiritual adviser: ‘Allah was a demon spirit.’
Last month, Ohio televangelist Rev. Rod Parsley endorsed Sen. John McCain (R-AZ). McCain called Parsley — who helped mobilize evangelicals to vote for President Bush in 2004 — his “spiritual guide.” David Corn of Mother Jones takes a look at this spiritual adviser, excerpting from Parsley’s 2005 book, Silent No More:
In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.
Parsley has also called Allah a “demon spirit” and said that explorer Christopher Columbus’s dream was to “defeat Islam.”
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lol
March 12th, 2008 at 4:09 pmlol religious ppl...
March 12th, 2008 at 4:12 pmGod's Rod has spoken!
March 12th, 2008 at 4:13 pmMc100yearsinIraq wanted dead-eye Dick to be his "spiritual adviser", but Cheney was too busy raping Iraqi children to take the job.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:15 pmI believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.
I didn't know Mann Coulter was McCain's spiritual advisor.
Makes sense, though.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:15 pm#2 - got that right! religion is a mental disorder.... meaning that when that shit rules your life and you take it literally word for word... YOU'VE GOT MAJOR HEAD PROBLEMS!
March 12th, 2008 at 4:16 pmMy history books seem to be missing this part.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:16 pmCheney was too busy raping Iraqi children to take the job.
Comment by Dr. Matt — March 12, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
Don't be absurd. Cheney doesn't rape Iraqi children. That's what he hired KBR for.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:16 pmMc100yearsinIraq wanted dead-eye Dick to be his “spiritual adviserâ€, but Cheney was too busy raping Iraqi children to take the job.
Comment by Dr. Matt — March 12, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
dont forget the countless americans these goddamn traitors have raped.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:17 pmMcBush has taken the plunge into the abyss of ignorance hoping for a soft landing on Bush 2.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:17 pmANOTHER self-proclaimed "man of God" who's full of BS?? Don't we have exterminators for this kind of infestation?
And this one, while recycling that old chestnut about Allah being a "demon spirit" (never mind that "Allah" is merely the Arabic word for "God" and the God that Muslims worship is exactly the same God we call Jehovah or Yahweh), he has come up with a new wrinkle -- "our historical conflict with Islam."
WHAT historical conflict with Islam? Did I miss something? Yes, we have had some trouble with a few violent crackpots who spouted a very twisted line of religious dogma, that no more resembled Islam than the KKK credo resembles Christianity. But I don't recall that our country has ever had a problem with Islam itself.
And this guy is advising McCain. On spiritual matters. That alarms me a bit that the possible leader of the free world is getting spiritual guidance in the form of anti-Islamic bigotry.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:17 pmSo, the Constitution deliberately removed all mention of religion (except to say that "there shall be no religious test" for public office) in creating the American scheme of government - for the purpose of actually creating a Christian country that would defeat Islam? Wow, those Founding Fathers were too clever!
March 12th, 2008 at 4:18 pmMay I suggest "Parsley the Flake"?
March 12th, 2008 at 4:20 pmSo, the Constitution deliberately removed all mention of religion (except to say that “there shall be no religious test†for public office) in creating the American scheme of government - for the purpose of actually creating a Christian country that would defeat Islam? Wow, those Founding Fathers were too clever!
Comment by gulfwargrunt — March 12, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
Yeah, too clever. It took 220 years for our fundies to figger out what the FFs wanted and give us our marching orders.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:20 pmOh, great. Just what we need: *another* god-smacked bigot panting for the Rapture.
*eyeroll*.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:20 pmThe fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed,
My history books seem to be missing this part.
Comment by Dr. Matt
Yeah, I thought Chris's main goal was to trade STDs for gold.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:22 pmNut job.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:23 pmEdit
Parsley has also called Allah a “demon spirit†and said that explorer Christopher Columbus’s dream was to “defeat Islam.â€
Yeah, I thought Chris’s main goal was to trade STDs for gold.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:23 pmWoo Hoo! New Low! McInsane and his Looney Friends! Its reached the point where I can't even get upset about this. Watch the train wreck that the Republican party's become and Work for Change.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:24 pmImpeach Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution.
"Allah was a demon spirit."
Uh huh, and Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:27 pmReligion....who ever thought of it should be embarrassed by it. Worst idea ever.
McSame sure has some McInsane supporters.
Like the "Crusade Sword" he is toting there, sort of says it all.
Buck Hussein Fush
March 12th, 2008 at 4:27 pm"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence AGAINST ISLAM, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
See. It's right there. Will someone please tell me how a rationale person could have voted for Bush in 2004 and now want the same again. There must be a classification in The DSM.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:29 pmHere you have the direct consequences of the "dumbing down of America". What sane individual would even give this un-sage Parsley the time of day?
March 12th, 2008 at 4:29 pmI found this on Wikipedia:
"Parsley was also criticized by a group of 31 Columbus, Ohio area pastors for possibly violating federal tax laws. It was alleged that he violated the tax-exempt status of his church by supporting various political causes, and that he was misusing the finances of his church for personal gain."
In response to, he told his flock:
"The secular media never likes it when I say this, so let me say it twice. Man your battle stations! Ready your weapons! They say this rhetoric is so inciting. I came to incite a riot. ... Man your battle stations. Ready your weapons. Lock and load--for the thirty, forty liberal pastors who filed against our ministry with the Internal Revenue Service. ... Let the struggle begin. Let it begin in your heart today with a shout unto him who has called us to war--not only that, he has empowered you and I to win."
Yeah, great pick there, Senator McCain.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:31 pmI charge thee dumbass with a quest. A crusade. Get a suit of armor and ride to Damascus. We will watch the news wire for results.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:32 pmWHAT historical conflict with Islam? Did I miss something?
Comment by missmolly — March 12, 2008 @ 4:17 pm
As I understand, it goes back to the Puritans who considered conquering the new world to be part of some zionist destiny. England was, of course, all too happy to get rid of them, so they came to America. The current crop of lunatics on the religious right are the direct descendant of these folks.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:35 pmNow, I would expect to see some very sharp questioning on these statements during the presidential debates. We should see McCain asked whether he supports these statements and whether he believes a person with such a person supporting him should be president. He should be asked whether he has forcefully enough disavowed the statements. He should be asked three times in a row.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:41 pmMcBush responds:
I repudiate any remarks by my friend. But, I accept his support. He says his sermons were taken out of context, especially anything that mentions the teachings of Jesus Christ.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:41 pmWhat in the world is he holding in that pic? Is that a sword? Does he fancy himself a warrior for Christ or something? Sounds like he wishes he could have been part of the Crusades.
His kind of religion is all about power and money.
p.s. the article says he calls himself a "Christocrat". There's our new third party!
March 12th, 2008 at 4:43 pmHey TP, how about that Geraldine Ferraro on the Hillary Clinton campaign?
Woo, nutty!
**crickets**
March 12th, 2008 at 4:44 pmYou know, this would be ridiculous to the point of hilarity if it wasn't for the fact that there are people ready, willing and able to defend these falsehoods as truths.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:45 pmWHAT historical conflict with Islam? Did I miss something?
Comment by missmolly — March 12, 2008 @ 4:17 pm
As I understand, it goes back to the Puritans who considered conquering the new world to be part of some zionist destiny. England was, of course, all too happy to get rid of them, so they came to America. The current crop of lunatics on the religious right are the direct descendant of these folks.
Comment by toasterhead — March 12, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
So , at a time when most of the 'civilized' world still believed the Earth to be flat , these folks were destined to destroy Islam by running away towards the unknown ?
Didn't most of the planet believe they'd perish ?
And now this jackass is claiming this rubbish ?
And as we can all see , the good reverend is properly equipped with sword-in-hand , to fight against machine guns ; glad he heard that "call to arms" so soundly ....................
March 12th, 2008 at 4:48 pmFolks please tune in Christian TV, after all it's probably your tax money paying for every broadcast. You'll hear stuff like this every 5 minutes, along with how King-George is a wonderful gift from God. Did you know that GWB is the FIRST Christian President. Did you know that Gays are causing abortions? Pat Robertson will explain it all to you. And don't forget, SEND YOUR MONEY, or God will not love you.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:49 pmAs I understand, it goes back to the Puritans who considered conquering the new world to be part of some zionist destiny. England was, of course, all too happy to get rid of them, so they came to America. The current crop of lunatics on the religious right are the direct descendant of these folks.
Comment by toasterhead
Hence the overabundance of right-wing, psuedo-Christian, deadenders in this country.
I once heard that Puritan philosophy was based on the fear that someone, somewhere, might actually be happy.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:50 pmLeave it to the nutters to get it backwards. The only remote connections between the voyages of Cristobal Colon and Islam are (1) the Ottoman seizure of Constantinople threatened the overland passage between Europe and the far east thus creating an incentive to find a sea route; and (2) Spain had incentive to sponsor his first voyage having recently thrown out the Moors to consolidate the country. Strange a flat earther like Rev. Rod would invoke Columbus at all but can't expect consistency from this crowd.
Anyone who believes the US was founded to destroy Islam really needs to look at the history of the first decade or so of our relations with the Barbary pirates -- we basically bribed them not to attack our ships kind of like we seem to be doing with certain Iraqi militias. Not sure if Rev. Rod is ignorant or just assumes his flock never reads a book that doesn't come with crayons but he sure is talking some major crazy.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:51 pmRomans 16:18 - For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:52 pmDaryll, I would have thought you would have read the bible and noticed a false prophet when you see one.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:52 pmAs soon as you enter the sanctuary, you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
That's faulty wiring.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:53 pmYou guys should visit Pastor Parsley’s church in Columbus, OH (Harvester). As soon as you enter the sanctuary, you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll
Is that like the Green Lantern's Power Ring? or more like Captain Marvel's shazam qualities?
March 12th, 2008 at 4:54 pm...you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll
No, you probably just had too many sausages for breakfast that Sunday.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:54 pmSo , at a time when most of the ‘civilized’ world still believed the Earth to be flat , these folks were destined to destroy Islam by running away towards the unknown ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
Yup. That was the plan. They believed that this base in the new world would provide them the ability to reconquer Palestine and bring about the rapture.
Craig Unger writes about this in great detail in The Fall of the House of Bush, tracing the roots of the current evangelical industry back to the landing at Plymouth Rock. It's a fascinating and very frightening read.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:55 pmAs soon as you enter the sanctuary, you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
That’s faulty wiring.
Comment by Zooey — March 12, 2008 @ 4:53 pm
Oh, Zooey! ZING!
March 12th, 2008 at 4:56 pmOh crap, another scarey book that I'm just gonna have to read.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:56 pmI wanna see context for the Allah = Demon Spirit quote. It's easy to rebutt as 'out of context' the way it's presented.
Anyone have a source to pre-empt the trolls?
March 12th, 2008 at 4:58 pmThis is totally off-topic but Greta van Sustern is soliciting messages for Silda Spitzer as if FOX isn't gleefully milking this but actually is concerned for her welfare. Please TPers, bomb the sh1t out of this trash and make me proud...
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/03/12/your-chanceto-write-to-silda-spitzer/
March 12th, 2008 at 4:58 pmDaryll, good to see you here; maybe you can clear up a few things from yesterday. Apparently you were running late and missed the couple of direct questions I asked you on the Eliot Spitzer thread.
You said, ""Yes. His wife failed him."
and you also asked why she would hold out on him.
Now, in order to properly consider your position, I need to understand how you got your information. I mean, you state it pretty definitively, so I assume you have some direct knowledge of the Spitzers' marital dynamic.
So, tell me, Daryll, how do you know that Gov. Spitzer's wife "failed" him?
March 12th, 2008 at 4:59 pmYou guys should visit Pastor Parsley’s church in Columbus, OH (Harvester). As soon as you enter the sanctuary, you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
That's just static electricity, Daryll.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:59 pmI wanna see context for the Allah = Demon Spirit quote. It’s easy to rebutt as ‘out of context’ the way it’s presented.
Anyone have a source to pre-empt the trolls?
Comment by deebaser — March 12, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Me too, though I can't imagine a context that would justify such a ridiculously bigoted statement.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:00 pmyou probably just had too many sausages for breakfast that Sunday.
Comment by shoeless — March 12, 2008 @ 4:54 pm
Daryll can't eat sausages. Doesn't the Bible say that pork is forbidden?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:01 pmZooey! I actually wrote mine before yours but my kid was on the phone and I got distracted it. Seriously. Really. Truly.
Cross my heart!
March 12th, 2008 at 5:01 pm...you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll
Is that like the Green Lantern’s Power Ring? or more like Captain Marvel’s shazam qualities?
Comment by raynman
No. I read those comics, and I don't recall either the Green Lantern, or Captain Marvel having the power to turn someone into a blithering idiot.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:01 pmThat’s just static electricity, Daryll.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
It's from the tesla coils they use to zap IRS agents who come around to audit the ministry's "first fruits."
March 12th, 2008 at 5:02 pmDaryll can’t eat sausages. Doesn’t the Bible say that pork is forbidden?
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 5:01 pm
Oooh, ralph needs to get out more. Never heard of lamb? Beef? Chicken?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:02 pmDoes Pastor Parsley *snort* let you play with his sword when you go to Columbus, Daryll?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:03 pmLooks like it would take two hands to wield.
Does he sprinkle a bit of himself on your buttered spud?
Zooey! I actually wrote mine before yours but my kid was on the phone and I got distracted it. Seriously. Really. Truly.
Cross my heart!
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:01 pm
Kids these days....
No crying in Snarkville!! ;)
March 12th, 2008 at 5:04 pmDon’t be absurd. Cheney doesn’t rape Iraqi children. That’s what he hired KBR for.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
My bad. I meant to write, "Cheney was too busy watching video of KBR raping Iraqi children to take the job."
March 12th, 2008 at 5:04 pmYou guys should visit Pastor Parsley’s church in Columbus, OH (Harvester). As soon as you enter the sanctuary, you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
That’s faulty wiring.
Comment by Zooey — March 12, 2008 @ 4:53 pm
Actually, Daryll was in a local house of ill repute when he felt that power. The wiring defect was due to smoking too much pot to be able to recognize where he really was.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:04 pmOooh, ralph needs to get out more. Never heard of lamb? Beef? Chicken?
Comment by gummitch
If lamb sausage doesn't make you feel the power of God, nothing will.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:05 pmI was thinking about Daryll -- I'm working on a post about STDs and the failure of abstinence-only programs.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:05 pmHey TP, how about that Geraldine Ferraro on the Hillary Clinton campaign?
Woo, nutty!
**crickets**
Comment by Zooey — March 12, 2008 @ 4:44 pm
------
Yeah... Anti-Obama posts only come when they aren't vaguely anti-Hillary.
It's TPs blog and they can post what they want, but c'mon if this pastor said that, it'd be an Update
March 12th, 2008 at 5:06 pmGreta van Sustern at Foxnews.com is soliciting messages for Silda Spitzer as if FOX isn’t gleefully milking this but actually is concerned for her welfare. Please bomb the sh1t out of this trash and make me proud…
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/ 2008/ 03/ 12/ your-chanceto-write-to-silda-spitzer/
March 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pmIt’s TPs blog and they can post what they want, but c’mon if this pastor said that, it’d be an Update
Comment by deebaser — March 12, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
Hey, if TP is covering the elections, I say cover the whole damn thing.
Just sayin'
March 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pmOooh, ralph needs to get out more. Never heard of lamb? Beef? Chicken?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
Not for breakfast, though... you need pork sausage and gravy fer yer biscuits... nothin' else'll do.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pmHe should be asked whether he has forcefully enough disavowed the statements. He should be asked three times in a row.
Comment by JMOHR — March 12, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
And before the cock crows.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pmmore holy crap...
America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed ...
...explorer Christopher Columbus’s dream was to “defeat Islam.â€
this is all news to me... and to most others...
but imagine ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING FED THIS CRAP...
ALL THE CHILDREN LEARNING THESE LIES...
how ever are we gonna get it all right again?... how?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:08 pm...
Aw, man, you guys chased Daryll off with all your faulty wiring snark!
I was just about to get him to answer my question from yesterday, I know I was!
March 12th, 2008 at 5:09 pmKids these days….
No crying in Snarkville!! ;)
Comment by Zooey — March 12, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
She's job hunting. Cross your fingers and toes and light a candle.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:09 pmShe’s job hunting. Cross your fingers and toes and light a candle.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
Can I light the candle first...? :)
March 12th, 2008 at 5:10 pmNot for breakfast, though… you need pork sausage and gravy fer yer biscuits… nothin’ else’ll do.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
Good point. I loves the piggies.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:11 pmThose of us who follow TP may laugh at the statements emanating from this "moron", but about one-third of the people in this country believe every thing this guy is saying. That scares the sh*t out of me because if Obama and Hillary don't quit their petty bickering and start focusing in these very issues the bible beating bastards are going to be in charge for four very bloody years.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:13 pmComment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
I see the stone pile guy is switching tactics -- instead of pretending to be an illiterate progressive, he's pretending to be an illiterate... what is that exactly that he's pretending to be now?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:13 pmCan I light the candle first…? :)
Comment by Zooey — March 12, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
Before you take off your shoes, you mean?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:13 pmI was just about to get him to answer my question from yesterday, I know I was!
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
Ralph, walk with me....
This will be difficult for you to hear, but our Daryll (FSM love him) doesn't answer difficult questions, otherwise he'd have to leave Pastor Gino -- and just the thought of that will cause Daryll's little pointy head to pop.
I'm sorry to disappoint you.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:14 pmI see the stone pile guy is switching tactics — instead of pretending to be an illiterate progressive, he’s pretending to be an illiterate… what is that exactly that he’s pretending to be now?
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
Pretending? Doing a credible job as an illiterate crazy person.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:14 pmBefore you take off your shoes, you mean?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
Shoes? I'm on Spring Break!
March 12th, 2008 at 5:15 pmThe US was founded to defeat Islam?!?!? I guess it's not enough for these evangelical scare mongers to make up their own facts, now they are making up history, too.
Just because you may think it so, does not mean it really happened. These zealots have lost all contact with the real world.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:17 pmYou guys should visit Pastor Parsley’s church in Columbus, OH (Harvester). As soon as you enter the sanctuary, you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
Sure that wasn't the Mexican or Tai food you had during the week ?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:18 pmI know this because, if Gov. Spitzer’s wife gave him more than enough sex, he would have stayed home.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
You really don't know much about sex, do you, Daryll?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:20 pmI was just about to get him to answer my question from yesterday, I know I was!
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
I know this because, if Gov. Spitzer’s wife gave him more than enough sex, he would have stayed home.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
What about Larry Craig ?
Did he venture out because his wife sold their double-headed dildo ?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:21 pmI know this because, if Gov. Spitzer’s wife gave him more than enough sex, he would have stayed home.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
Why aren't you home right now, Daryll?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:21 pmPretending? Doing a credible job as an illiterate crazy person.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:14 pm
THAT"S IT!
(gummitch does somersaults like Charlie Brown)
That was the word I was looking for -- "crazy person".
Okay, words.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:21 pmI know this because, if Gov. Spitzer’s wife gave him more than enough sex, he would have stayed home.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
Why aren’t you home right now, Daryll?
Comment by Zooey — March 12, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
He's tending to "God's" lost souls here at TP...................
March 12th, 2008 at 5:22 pmDaryll, you don't think this pastor is a false prophet? The bible tells us he is.
So Daryll, are you following God or a false prophet?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:22 pmYou really don’t know much about sex, do you, Daryll?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:20 pm
Why should sex be any different from the rest of reality?
(... that was rhetorical, wasn't it?)
March 12th, 2008 at 5:23 pmhey Daryll check out the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago! its crazy funny!
Comment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
Yes, I know about trinity, as well. My brother is good friends with the Music Director (Rob Wooten). They believe in following the complete book. Can you say that about your church or does your pastor give you a motivational speech and sends you on your way?
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
Why is a "Music Director" necessary to play remedial type of utter crap ?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:24 pmAs soon as you enter the sanctuary, you instantly feel God’s Holy Ghost power.
Comment by Daryll
Hahaha, it's call Air Conditioning...by the way God is a made up faerie tale.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:25 pmI love Paul and Jan Crouch.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Ahhhh , wife-swapping ; you just garnered some respect .........
March 12th, 2008 at 5:25 pmDaryll, if you can't figure out if he's a false prophet or not just go to this link and take the quiz.
http://www.christianet.com/bible/falseteachers.htm
March 12th, 2008 at 5:25 pmWhy is a “Music Director†necessary to play remedial type of utter crap ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
What? You have something against church music? gospel? Chill out.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:25 pmI know this because, if Gov. Spitzer’s wife gave him more than enough sex, he would have stayed home.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
What if she gave him lots of sex (intercourse and oral sex) but what if it was entirely the wrong kind of sex for him? What if he likes being spanked, or handcuffed and peed on? Is she still to blame for not giving him that? Do you know what their sex life consists of? And if so how do you know that?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:26 pmHey TP, how about that Geraldine Ferraro on the Hillary Clinton campaign? Woo, nutty!
**crickets**
Comment by Zooey — March 12, 2008 @ 4:44 pm
VERY good question...
surely any SEXIST remarks from ANYONE directed at hillary,
would have meritted at least ONE thread here ar Think PROGRESS...
just heard on randi that geraldine sent her a letter,
telling her she was resigning from her campaing
BECAUSE OBAMA WAS ATTACKING HER...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
March 12th, 2008 at 5:26 pmThank God, I will eventually be at home because TBN is having their Gospel Telathon. I love Paul and Jan Crouch.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Okay, that's it, the jig is up, Daryll. You had us going for a while there but no real believer in his or her right mind would say something as asinine as this.
I switch my party affiliation from Daryll: Genuine Deluded Sheep to Daryll: Parody Troll.
Good job, though, D. Solid work in the field.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:26 pmWhy is a “Music Director†necessary to play remedial type of utter crap ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
What? You have something against church music? gospel? Chill out.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
Oh please
People Get Ready , You'll Never Walk Alone and Amazing Grace are the only tunes worth a damn ; the rest is all insipid , unlistenable piss.......
March 12th, 2008 at 5:27 pmWaiting for hardware to arrive so I can at least set everything up for testing. Thank God, I will eventually be at home because TBN is having their Gospel Telathon. I love Paul and Jan Crouch.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
What!? You watch television while you could be having sex? You're neglecting your husbandly duties.
Poor Tiffany....
March 12th, 2008 at 5:27 pmDaryll, you have ignored Romans 16:18 - For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Why do you stand at the pulpit for some biblical verses but run from others?
Take the quiz yet?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:28 pmWhy is a “Music Director†necessary to play remedial type of utter crap ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Why do you go to church on Easter will you constantly make the decision not to follow Acts 2:38? If you don’t want to be saved, stay home and wait for hell.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
I don't attend church , you Bible thumping ignoramus.........
BTW
I'm not gonna' stay home and wait for "Hell" ; I'm gonna' be driving the chariot that's headed that way .................
March 12th, 2008 at 5:29 pmthats some funny chit.
Allah is just another name for the same Abrahamic god, that Christians and Jews worship.
The same god started his first incarnation as a sky/hill god that required innocent blood sacrifice from humans, children and animals
This fool is calling his own demon god a demon
LMAO
March 12th, 2008 at 5:30 pmthats some funny chit.
Allah is just another name for the same Abrahamic god, that Christians and Jews worship.
The same god started his first incarnation as a sky/hill god that required innocent blood sacrifice from humans, children and animals
This fool is calling his own demon god a demon
LMAO
Comment by Wayne — March 12, 2008 @ 5:30 pm
Well you have to remember that these reverends have never been confused with or ever been Rhodes Scholars ............
March 12th, 2008 at 5:32 pmBuckie Boy just because Science has learned a lot about space and the nature of our universe how does that exactly rule out “God�
Comment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
It doesn't rule out all conceptions of God. Just the bigoted, closed-minded version of God that Pastor Parsley and James Dobson and Pat Robertson seem to worship.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:33 pmPeople Get Ready , You’ll Never Walk Alone and Amazing Grace are the only tunes worth a damn ; the rest is all insipid , unlistenable piss…….
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
Really? Wow. All that music going back to the Renaissance is insipid? And you think "People Get Ready" isn't?
Gospel music is insipid?
Good god.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:33 pmAnd let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.... error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.... I deem the essential principles of our government.... Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; ... freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:34 pm-- Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801
" ever been Rhodes Scholars "
Not even when they're rockin out playin "Rock of Ages" on their Rhodes 88?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:35 pm#111, now you must remember Wayne that Christians believe in the swiss army knife God (three in one as it were), not the truly monotheistic G_d. Well at least from the non-Christian side of the fence, of course the Christians don't think there is a distinction.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:37 pmPeople Get Ready , You’ll Never Walk Alone and Amazing Grace are the only tunes worth a damn ; the rest is all insipid , unlistenable piss…….
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
Really? Wow. All that music going back to the Renaissance is insipid? And you think “People Get Ready†isn’t?
Gospel music is insipid?
Good god.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:33 pm
"All that music" going back to the Renaissance is crap compared to Mozart , Beethoven , Vivaldi , Strauss etc ..................
Gospel music is insipid ; how many times can you really say "God is great" in every friggin' song ?
BTW
There's nothing "good" about "God"............
March 12th, 2008 at 5:37 pmAllah is just another name for the same Abrahamic god, that Christians and Jews worship.
Comment by Wayne — March 12, 2008 @ 5:30 pm
More of a title, really. Lah is the Arabic word for a god, and al is the definite article. So al-lah is literally "the god."
March 12th, 2008 at 5:37 pm†ever been Rhodes Scholars â€
Not even when they’re rockin out playin “Rock of Ages†on their Rhodes 88?
Comment by RUCerious — March 12, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
Unless it's "Rock Of Ages" by Def Leppard .............
March 12th, 2008 at 5:38 pmLet me get this straight. If I don't hate Muslims, Jesus will kill me?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:38 pmLet me get this straight. If I don’t hate Muslims, Jesus will kill me?
Comment by pete — March 12, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
Or daryll will ...........
March 12th, 2008 at 5:39 pmMillions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:39 pm-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82
Or daryll will ………..
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:39 pm
Uh, oh. You may have summoned him up from the depths of his basement, where the well thumped bibles await his next thumperation...
March 12th, 2008 at 5:41 pmWhy don’t you have the same resentment for Muslims than for say Southern Baptist?
Comment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
Sheesh. How many times do I have to explain this to you people?
We don't have any resentment for any religion, be it Islam or Judaism or Hinduism or Southern Baptism or Atheism. Our resentment is with the hypocrites who corrupt these faiths and use them either for personal gain or to promote hatred and intolerance.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:42 pmIs it a contradiction to thank god for Thomas Jefferson?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:42 pm#111, now you must remember Wayne that Christians believe in the swiss army knife God (three in one as it were), not the truly monotheistic G_d. Well at least from the non-Christian side of the fence, of course the Christians don’t think there is a distinction.
Comment by j swift — March 12, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
I recall when I was a kid , the 1st 'hard core' Christian I came across , who hated Greek mythology and the Greeks themselves for ever even considering the Greek gods and goddesses as being anything more than a blsphemous faory tale ; especially considering the "insanity" that a deity would have sex with a human being ...........
Who was Jesus' mother , BTW ? And how was he conceived ?
Wow , good call there .................
March 12th, 2008 at 5:43 pmIs it a contradiction to thank god for Thomas Jefferson?
Comment by hellinabucket — March 12, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
Not at all. As a secular Deist, he might find it amusing, but not contradictory. You'd be thanking God for putting the forces in place that eventually led to Jefferson's birth and political philosophy.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:44 pmthanks for the clarification toasterhead.
And I thank God for Thomas Jefferson.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:47 pm"Waiting for hardware to arrive so I can at least set everything up for testing."
Comment by Daryll
Did you remember to pick up the double A's on the way home?
March 12th, 2008 at 5:48 pmAnd how 'bout the butter?
Stupid Comments by Thecairngman
Sorry, you are just too ignorant to respond to.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:52 pmHow are all these Pro’s so passionate about the non existence of God?
Comment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:48 pm
You seem to be confusing "Progressive" and "Atheist." One is a political philosophy and policy agenda. The other is a religion. I know it's convenient to your ideology to conflate the two, but they're really not the same thing.
Scanning this thread, I count two, perhaps three Atheists. Most progressives I know, including myself, are Christians who believe in acting towards our fellow humans and our planet as Christ would have wanted us to - with loving kindness, respect, dignity, and forgiveness. Not how some warmongering, profiteering preacher says we should.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:55 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ&feature=related
March 12th, 2008 at 5:55 pm“All that music†going back to the Renaissance is crap compared to Mozart , Beethoven , Vivaldi , Strauss etc ………………
Gospel music is insipid ; how many times can you really say “God is great†in every friggin’ song ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
I'm guessing you don't get to church much. Most of the music I've heard at our parish was written by Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, et al, along with Tomas Luis de Victoria, etc.
And I also have to believe you've never actually listened to gospel.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:56 pmOld saying-
I like your Jesus Christ, it's his followers that I have a problem with.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:58 pmtoo me thats just as bad as having a religion.
Comment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:51 pm
Atheism is a religion. There are many on this board who will disagree with me on this, but that's my belief. Atheism is a belief in No God, and it deserves the same level of respect and tolerance as a belief in a god.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:59 pmWhy don’t you have the same resentment for Muslims than for say Southern Baptist?
Comment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
Because at this point in time, Muslims aren't running around THIS country trying to tell the rest of us what to do.
They show up in sufficient numbers and get as obnoxious as Southern Baptists do, we'll treat 'em the same.
As far as the "blood thirsty" part goes, go check out Tim LaHaye's video game, the one where **cough** "good Christians" are supposed to kill those they can't convert.
Saaaay... what did Tranne Coulter say about that?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:00 pmI like your Jesus Christ, it’s his followers that I have a problem with.
Comment by Buckie Boy — March 12, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
Mahatma Gandhi said it well:
March 12th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Atheism is a belief in No God, and it deserves the same level of respect and tolerance as a belief in a god.
Comment by toasterhead — March 12, 2008 @ 5:59 pm
Since no one can prove or disprove the existence of God, I'd say it's safe to call Atheism a religion, or at the very least, a belief system.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:02 pmHow are all these Pro’s so passionate
about the non existence of God?
Comment by Thecairngman — March 12, 2008 @ 5:48 pm
Not everyone is passionate. I simply accept that there is no life beyond this one. I think the entire discussion about whether there is or isn't a god is irrelevant. It simply doesn't matter, and I give it no thought whatsoever.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:02 pmThere is a new movement to counteract the right wing fundies within the religious community....I still can't forgive them for standing around with their thumbs up thier collective butts for the last 7 year nightmare.....but at least they are finally taking a stand.
They say they are neither democrat or republican but their values sound like progressives.
They are called Red Letter Christians
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/185/story_18562_1.html
March 12th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
And I also have to believe you’ve never actually listened to gospel.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:56 pm
Mozart, Beethoven et al wrote liturgical music because that's who paid them... the Church. Some of them prolly had strong religious beliefs. Some of 'em prolly didn't care, but that's where the money was.
And at times, it was prolly for their own personal safety, if ya know what I mean.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:04 pmROTFL!! So WINGNUT CHRISTIANS are now PAGANS that believe in a PANTHEON OF SPIRITS? HYSTERICALLY PATHETIC!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:05 pmMore of a title, really. Lah is the Arabic word for a god, and al is the definite article. So al-lah is literally “the god.â€
Comment by toasterhead — March 12, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
My point was all 3 branches of the Abrahamic faith worship the same god =)
And that god did start out as what we would define as a demon in todays world, requiring blood sacrifice
That was Cain's big offence, not killing his brother in self defence, he refused to kill for sacrifice.
Ironic as hell.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:06 pmIt simply doesn’t matter, and I give it no thought whatsoever.
Comment by Merlin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:02 pm
As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on this one. Since I can't prove or disprove it absolutely, I'm hedging my bets. I try hard to not do anything I can't live w/. It does seem to make a difference as to how I feel to me.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:06 pmI know you Think Regress Rejects aren't too keen on history, but defeating islam and winning back the holy land was a major goal of Christopher Columbus.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:06 pmSince no one can prove or disprove the existence of God, I’d say it’s safe to call Atheism a religion, or at the very least, a belief system.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 12, 2008 @ 6:02 pm
You guys trying to raise the ghost of Bartlebee Past?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:07 pmI know you Think Regress Rejects aren’t too keen on history, but defeating islam and winning back the holy land was a major goal of Christopher Columbus.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
Yeah, Columbus had so much to do with establishing the United States of America. He practically wrote the Constitution single-handed.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:08 pmIronic as hell.
Comment by Wayne — March 12, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
All three follow the same lineage of prophets and all three use the first five books of the Old testament as a starting point.
Christians insist that Jesus is the Only One.
Jews think he was a nobody.
Moslems say, yeah, he might have been a prophet, but he was just one of them.
That's my understanding...
March 12th, 2008 at 6:09 pmAnd what founding father said we should destroy Islam?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:09 pmThe biblethumpers are lunatics. Those who listen to them are equally so, but they're not rich.
Gummy,
March 12th, 2008 at 6:10 pmI didn't say anything about Columbus establishing the United States.
Caption: And this is my Undead Avenger Claymore Sword!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:10 pm“All that music†going back to the Renaissance is crap compared to Mozart , Beethoven , Vivaldi , Strauss etc ………………
Gospel music is insipid ; how many times can you really say “God is great†in every friggin’ song ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
I’m guessing you don’t get to church much. Most of the music I’ve heard at our parish was written by Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, et al, along with Tomas Luis de Victoria, etc.
And I also have to believe you’ve never actually listened to gospel.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 5:56 pm
The "Romantic Era" musical pieces are not recognized as "Gospel" music ; I have to believe you don't know what you're talking about.
Different churches play various pieces ; that doesn't make it "gospel music"............
March 12th, 2008 at 6:12 pmI know you Think Regress Rejects aren’t too keen on history, but defeating islam and winning back the holy land was a major goal of Christopher Columbus.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
Any support for this bold statement of "fact" there, mandy?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:12 pmAnd what founding father said we should destroy Islam?
Comment by Marie — March 12, 2008 @ 6:09 pm
Christopher Columbus, apparently.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:13 pmbut defeating islam and winning back the holy land was a major goal of Christopher Columbus.
Comment by mandolin
Yeah, that's why he went to the other side of the world...
March 12th, 2008 at 6:13 pmThe “Romantic Era†musical pieces are not recognized as “Gospel†music ; I have to believe you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Different churches play various pieces ; that doesn’t make it “gospel musicâ€â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:12 pm
I didn't suggest they were gospel music. I'm trying to convey to you the scope of music played in church, which you apparently have no experience with. You issued a blanket dismissal of church music.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:14 pm"The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore"...Parsley has also called Allah a “demon spirit†and said that explorer Christopher Columbus’s dream was to “defeat Islam.â€
***********************************************
And upon what historical citations, precisely, is Parsley basing these claims and conclusions -- apart from his own subjective theories and interpretations, that is? The man is a theologian, not a historian -- and as most historians know very well, even history is frequently at least mildly biased depending on whose account you're reading. If the Founding Fathers hated Islam so much, why did they consider freedom of religion so very important that they not only specifically and explicitly included it in the laws of the land -- but included it as one of the first principles upon which the laws would be based? Parsley is clearly one of those evangelicals who's trying to rewrite history and make people believe that the Founding Fathers intended this country to be a Christian theocracy in spite of the fact that it was founded in defiance of a country which was at least partially a theocracy. If memory serves, although the reigning British monarch is now only a figurehead, one of his or her official titles continues to be "Defender Of The Faith" because he or she is considered to be the official head of the Anglican Church (or Church Of England) even above the Archbishop of Canterbury -- and the official motto of the British monarchy continues to be "Dieu Et Mon Droit" (God And My Right) referencing the belief in Divine Right, the idea that the King or Queen was chosen by God to be the monarch.
(As an aside, am I the only one who finds it ironic that George W. Bush and his supporters fervently believed God wanted him to be president? It certainly explains a lot, particularly his predilection for signing statements and the like...as if he considers himself beholden to no one, just as the monarchs once did!)
March 12th, 2008 at 6:15 pmI know you Think Regress Rejects aren’t too keen on history, but defeating islam and winning back the holy land was a major goal of Christopher Columbus.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
You're gonna' win back the "Holy Land" that is in Israel and defeat Islam by traveling half-way across the planet (when that took months, BTW) ?
For what ?
Recruiting American Indians to join a new Christian Army ?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:15 pmYeah, that’s why he went to the other side of the world…
Comment by Juan C. — March 12, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
They were running away from Islam! Run away...!!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:17 pmthese whacky "spiritual advisors" of mcsame's really chase gg, keloi, southern man, et al. away, don't they?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:18 pmThe “Romantic Era†musical pieces are not recognized as “Gospel†music ; I have to believe you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Different churches play various pieces ; that doesn’t make it “gospel musicâ€â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:12 pm
I didn’t suggest they were gospel music. I’m trying to convey to you the scope of music played in church, which you apparently have no experience with. You issued a blanket dismissal of church music.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:14 pm
No , I did not.............I dismissed GOSPEL MUSIC
------------------------------------------------------------------
“All that music†going back to the Renaissance is crap compared to Mozart , Beethoven , Vivaldi , Strauss etc ………………
Gospel music is insipid ; how many times can you really say “God is great†in every friggin’ song ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me where I posted "church music" ..................
BTW
My not (regularly) attending church is a good thing ; seeing as how I'm not predisposed to having to protect it and their idiotic edicts , biases and outright fraudelent existence ................
March 12th, 2008 at 6:19 pmthese whacky “spiritual advisors†of mcsame’s really chase gg, keloi, southern man, et al. away, don’t they?
Comment by joe cantwell — March 12, 2008 @ 6:18 pm
Amazing isn't it? There are actually some people too offensive to have their sack stroked by our trolls. It's actually rather hopeful.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:21 pmYeah, that’s why he went to the other side of the world…
Comment by Juan C. — March 12, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
If you can recall (and apparently you can not) Columbus thought he could sail around the world and find a route to India. He did this for trade reasons, but also to find a back door to the ottoman empire which had been preventing the Europeans from taking back the holy land.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:22 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 12, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
As far as I’m concerned, the jury is still out on this one. Since I can’t prove or disprove it absolutely, I’m hedging my bets. I try hard to not do anything I can’t live w/. It does seem to make a difference as to how I feel to me.
Hedge away if it makes you feel better! I did that for 30 years. When it is proven, I will change my interest level. But, unlike the prophets who are barefoot, wearing white robes and long beards and who carry a sign that the world is coming to an end, I don't expect any proof in my lifetime.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:22 pmYeah, that’s why he went to the other side of the world…
Comment by Juan C. — March 12, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
Well, at the time, Columbus didn't know it was the other side of the world. He thought he was going to India.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:22 pmShow me where I posted “church music†………………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
Why is a “Music Director†necessary to play remedial type of utter crap ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Was there some distinction that you were making that isn't obvious?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:24 pmIt seems, at least judging from the overall ignorance about Columbus, that conservative students sign up for history classes as electives and liberal students sign up for yoga classes as electives.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:25 pmYeah, that’s why he went to the other side of the world…
Comment by Juan C. — March 12, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
If you can recall (and apparently you can not) Columbus thought he could sail around the world and find a route to India. He did this for trade reasons, but also to find a back door to the ottoman empire which had been preventing the Europeans from taking back the holy land.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
Yeah , and you know this because you were part of the group that made the decision to send him ?
Okay............
March 12th, 2008 at 6:25 pmSo here we are, having a pleasant discussion, actually answering cairgnman's questions politely and thoughtfully...
And what happens...
I know you Think Regress Rejects aren’t too keen on history, but defeating islam and winning back the holy land was a major goal of Christopher Columbus.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
D*ckwad shows up and cuts a really bad one.
I shall quote B Dylan here... "Light another match and start anew..."
Just googled Columbus' voyages and got NO info on "Columbus Out To Defeat Islam". It appears to have been all about the Benjamins.
However, I did find this nugget:
As a matter of fact, Columbus had two captain of muslim origin during his first transatlantic voyage: Martin Alonso Pinzon was the captain of the PINTA,and his brother Vicente Yanez Pinzon was the captain of the NINA. They were wealthy, expert ship outfitters who helped organize the Columbus expedition and prepared the flagship, SANTA MARIA. They did this at their own expense for both commercial and political reasons. The PINZON family was related to ABUZAYAN MUHAMMAD III (1362-66 CE), the Moroccan sultan of the Marinid dynasty (1196-1465CE).
See, cairgnman... ask an intelligent question and we'll answer it... but too many times all we get is human butt plugs like Mando here.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:26 pmI know this because, if Gov. Spitzer’s wife gave him more than enough sex, he would have stayed home.
Comment by Daryll — March 12, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
Well now, according to my husband there's no such thing as enough sex! So that means that it would be impossible to have MORE than enough sex! Jeez, way to put that bar beyond reach!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:27 pmWell, at the time, Columbus didn’t know it was the other side of the world. He thought he was going to India.
Comment by toasterhead — March 12, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
Well, to "the Indies", which essentially included everything from China to India -- the place where all the good stuff came from.
And, contrary to Mandolin's rewriting of history, his goal was to get Spain into the business of trade with the East without having to go through the middlemen of the Mediterranean. What was he going to do with his three little boats, invade Constantinople?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:28 pmI don’t expect any proof in my lifetime.
Comment by Merlin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
I don't expect proof either.
I've just learned that if I behave badly, I don't like myself.
So I don't do things I can't live w/.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:28 pmYeah , and you know this because you were part of the group that made the decision to send him ?
Okay…………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:25 pm
No, I know this because Columbus wrote extensively about his travels. If you had taken a history class instead of signing up for pottery 205 you might know this.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:28 pmShow me where I posted “church music†………………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
Why is a “Music Director†necessary to play remedial type of utter crap ?
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Was there some distinction that you were making that isn’t obvious?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:24 pm
Yeah , I made the distinction when I posted "Gospel Music" ; gospel requires more than 1 musician , along with vocals.
Romantic Era pieces that are played in a church are played by an individual ; a pianist , to be exact . A music director is unnecessary for a capable pianist that can play those type of pieces.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:28 pmIt seems, at least judging from the overall ignorance about Columbus, that conservative students sign up for history classes as electives and liberal students sign up for yoga classes as electives.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:25 pm
It seems, at least judging from the overall level of discourse, that liberal students sign up for logic courses as electives and conservative students cut class and watch Faux News.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:28 pmYeah , and you know this because you were part of the group that made the decision to send him ?
Okay…………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:25 pm
No, I know this because Columbus wrote extensively about his travels. If you had taken a history class instead of signing up for pottery 205 you might know this.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
You believe "history classes" are what you attended by making up utter bullshit ?
Looks more like you attended and/or hosted a GOP convention , because you're categorically wrong............
March 12th, 2008 at 6:30 pmJeez, way to put that bar beyond reach!
Comment by mary — March 12, 2008 @ 6:27 pm
Pssst... mary? In all fairness... we don't know what constitutes "more than enough sex" to Daryll.
15 seconds? 30? Prolly no more than 1 min, TOPS...
March 12th, 2008 at 6:30 pmIt seems, at least judging from the overall ignorance about Columbus, that conservative students sign up for history classes as electives and liberal students sign up for yoga classes as electives.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:25 pm
You're a liberal? Because so far all you've done is demonstrate a pretty thorough ignorance of Columbus and you're using your ignorance to prop up an even more ignorant defense of the argument that this country was founded, in part, to destroy Islam.
You're demonstrating a breath-taking lack of knowledge across several hundred years.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:30 pmcontrary to Mandolin’s rewriting of history, his goal was to get Spain into the business of trade with the East without having to go through the middlemen of the Mediterranean. What was he going to do with his three little boats, invade Constantinople?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Simply and elegantly put.
Mando attempts to attribute martial ambitions to a purely commercial venture. Why would he do that?
Oh, yeah -- to defend the stupidity of a Christofascist.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:30 pmWhat was he going to do with his three little boats, invade Constantinople?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
If you remember Gummy, most people did not believe in a western trade route. His goal was to establish that India or the "Indies" could be reached. After that, the Europeans could attack the Ottomans from the other side. What class did you take in lieu of History? Let me guess, Intro to the Koma Sutra?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:32 pmOnce again Gummy Bear, I never said this Country was founded to destroy islam. I only said that one of Columbus's goals was to retake the holy land.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:34 pmWhat was he going to do with his three little boats, invade Constantinople?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
If you remember Gummy, most people did not believe in a western trade route. His goal was to establish that India or the “Indies†could be reached. After that, the Europeans could attack the Ottomans from the other side. What class did you take in lieu of History? Let me guess, Intro to the Koma Sutra?
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
Umm , that's why those in the GOP always have to pay for sex , while those that know what they're doing like gummitch never do .......You'd do well to take a few thousand of those classes yourself , BTW.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:34 pmYou guys trying to raise the ghost of Bartlebee Past?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:07 pm
Nah... I just think it's a fair statement and I really don't want to go around and around on it like Bart.
By and large, I have to good sense to keep my personal belief system to myself. IF ONLY...
March 12th, 2008 at 6:35 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
I’ve just learned that if I behave badly, I don’t like myself.
So I don’t do things I can’t live w/.
Exactly. I feel as you do. But that philosophy does not need to be connected with an after life. It can if you want it to, however, the result is the same.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:36 pmRomantic Era pieces that are played in a church are played by an individual ; a pianist , to be exact . A music director is unnecessary for a capable pianist that can play those type of pieces.
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
That explains a lot. You've obviously been in the wrong church. And, for your information, a music director is responsible for choosing the music, regardless of who composed it.
You've also been steadily moving goalposts around and you've studiously ignored your original remark. What did that mean? "remedial type of utter crap"? Somewhere along the line, you decided that only the Romantic era qualified (for something, I'm not sure which) and that any music written before or after is, what, utter crap? Palestrina is utter crap? Bach, Mozart, Beethoven? I've heard them all in my parish and they seem to include a choir.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:36 pmthe Koma Sutra?
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
It's Kama Sutra, stupid.
In your case, I'd think Coma Sutra would be more appropriate.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:36 pmOnce again Gummy Bear, I never said this Country was founded to destroy islam. I only said that one of Columbus’s goals was to retake the holy land.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:34 pm
Which makes perfect sense 500 years ago , from the other side of the planet ................They were developing cruise missiles then , too........
March 12th, 2008 at 6:36 pmIt can if you want it to, however, the result is the same.
Comment by Merlin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:36 pm
No one knows. We don't know where we come from, or where we go. that's the way it is. And we take nothing w/ us, contrary to what the Egyptians and Rockefellers hoped.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:38 pmIf you remember Gummy, most people did not believe in a western trade route. His goal was to establish that India or the “Indies†could be reached. After that, the Europeans could attack the Ottomans from the other side. What class did you take in lieu of History? Let me guess, Intro to the Koma Sutra?
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
It's Kama Sutra, mandolin, and I wouldn't expect you'd need to know any of that. But you'll have to do a whole lot better in establishing that Columbus was looking for a martial path to the Ottomans rather than looking for wealth for the Spanish throne -- which, if you had been paying attention, had just finished driving the Muslims out of Spain and needed the cash.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:38 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 12, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
Of course, those pesky Mideasterners, who were no more homogeneous than they are now, didn't much care for armies of Europeans violating their homelands so they could take a bunch of smelly leaves to Europe. They much preferred to transport the smelly leaves themselves and charge a substantial markup. How inhospitable of them.
They not only objected to the Europeans lack of manors (to put it very kindly) but had the goal to engage in capitalistic practices which benefited them instead of the Europeans.
The "back door to the Ottoman Empire" had nothing to do with religion. It was a quest for toll free passage between Europe and the Orient.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:39 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 12, 2008 @ 6:30 pm
Good point RoS! Considering some of his postings, perhaps more than enough sex is when he decides he's done but his wife still wants more!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:39 pmMCMetal,
March 12th, 2008 at 6:40 pmPlease tell me you are no that stupid. Are unaware that Columbus thought he could reach India by way of the west. If Columbus had been right, the Europeans could have attacked the Turks from the east.
Sheesh
Once again Gummy Bear, I never said this Country was founded to destroy islam. I only said that one of Columbus’s goals was to retake the holy land.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:34 pm
Oh, I see. And the relevance of this, which you were using to chastise the ignorant liberals, when the thread is about someone who claimed the country was founded to defeat Islam is . . . ?
Most Christians of the time wanted to retake the Holy Land, so it's fair to assume that Columbus agreed. Suggesting he was looking for a back door into the Ottoman Empire, though, is just hysterical.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:41 pmOh, yeah — to defend the stupidity of a Christofascist.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 6:30 pm
According to this article, Parsley considers himself a "Christocrat"...
March 12th, 2008 at 6:42 pmbut his wife still wants more!
Comment by mary — March 12, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
Shhhh... Daryll might be listening...
In all fairness, it's not nice of me to infer such things about Daryll's personal life, is it?
JUST LIKE HE WANTS TO INFER AND FIND FAULT w/ the Spitzers, w/out actually knowing them, huh?
At least I'm funny when I do it. Christian indeed, Daryll.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:43 pmInteresting how mando is so insecure about his tenuous grasp of history that, whenever he states his shaky premise, he feels the need to insult the educations of those who don't buy his bullsh!t.
In my experience, such a consistent pattern of behavior represents a habitual compensation for a severe lack of self-esteem.
Or maybe he's just a d!ck-head.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:43 pmAccording to this article, Parsley considers himself a “Christocratâ€â€¦
Comment by mary — March 12, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
Uh oh. Why does Gilbert Gottfried suddenly come to mind?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:44 pmSuggesting he was looking for a back door into the Ottoman Empire, though, is just hysterical.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:41 pm
I think we all understanf Mando's REAL interest here, folks...
Finding "the back door"... no wonder he's a GOOPer!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:44 pmThat explains a lot. You’ve obviously been in the wrong church. And, for your information, a music director is responsible for choosing the music, regardless of who composed it.
You’ve also been steadily moving goalposts around and you’ve studiously ignored your original remark. What did that mean? “remedial type of utter crap� Somewhere along the line, you decided that only the Romantic era qualified (for something, I’m not sure which) and that any music written before or after is, what, utter crap? Palestrina is utter crap? Bach, Mozart, Beethoven? I’ve heard them all in my parish and they seem to include a choir.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:36 pm
Ummm 1st off , you're absolutely wrong.
Unless the music director is also the head of any particular church (highly unlikely) , EVERY PIECE HE/SHE CHOOSES has to be run past and approved ; he/she cannot simply arbitrarily pick their personal favorite(s).
2nd I have not "ignored" anything ; Gospel Music is insipid piss , which doesn't require much skill (especially musically).
And classical music that may be played within your church is not "church/Gospel music" ; it was music written by artists at the behest of the church , but not needing to be used as a vehicle inside the church itself and that included the redundant lyrics of "God's" greatness..............
If I misspoke anything , I should have been more articulate and accurate in identifying "Gospel" , specifically ; I apologize if you took that as all music played with in all churches , and especially your own.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:45 pmThis is from Columbus's own hand
…and I saw the Moorish king come out of the gates of the city and kiss the royal hands of Your Highnesses…and Your Highnesses, as Catholic Christians…took thought to send me, Christopher Columbus, to the said parts of India, to see those princes and peoples and lands…and the manner which should be used to bring about their conversion to our holy faith, and ordained that I should not go by land to the eastward, by which way it was the custom to go, but by way of the west, by which down to this day we do not know certainly that anyone has passed; therefore, having driven out all the Jews from your realms and lordships in the same month of January, Your Highnesses commanded me that, with a sufficient fleet, I should go to the said parts of India, and for this accorded me great rewards and ennobled me so that from that time henceforth I might style myself “Don†and be high admiral of the Ocean Sea and viceroy and perpetual Governor of the islands and continent which I should discover…and that my eldest son should succeed to the same position, and so on from generation to generation forever.
Here is the link if do not believe me http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9109621/Christopher-Columbus
March 12th, 2008 at 6:46 pmOr maybe he’s just a d!ck-head.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 6:43 pm
Is this a trick question, ralph?
I say the answer is b) d!ck-head!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:46 pmMCMetal,
Please tell me you are no that stupid. Are unaware that Columbus thought he could reach India by way of the west. If Columbus had been right, the Europeans could have attacked the Turks from the east.
Sheesh
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
Please
It was all about COMMERCE ; it had nothing to do as you have falsely claimed of "saving the Holy Land"...........
You're an imbecile.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:46 pmUmmm 1st off , you’re absolutely wrong.
Unless the music director is also the head of any particular church (highly unlikely) , EVERY PIECE HE/SHE CHOOSES has to be run past and approved ; he/she cannot simply arbitrarily pick their personal favorite(s).
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:45 pm
No. Sorry, but you're wrong. I don't know where you get your information, but it's just flat wrong. I've seen the Music Director argue with the pastor, and I've seen at least one Music Director quit and take the entire choir with him because of the argument, but except for the most extreme circumstances, this is entirely the job of the Music Director.
Like I said, you're just going to the wrong church . . . except you don't go at all.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:48 pmGummy Bear,
After reading the excerpt from Columbus's journal that I posted above, please reiterate your position that "Suggesting he was looking for a back door into the Ottoman Empire, though, is just hysterical."
HA HA HA HA
March 12th, 2008 at 6:48 pmThis is from Columbus’s own hand
…and I saw the Moorish king come out of the gates of the city and kiss the royal hands of Your Highnesses…and Your Highnesses, as Catholic Christians…took thought to send me, Christopher Columbus, to the said parts of India, to see those princes and peoples and lands…and the manner which should be used to bring about their conversion to our holy faith, and ordained that I should not go by land to the eastward, by which way it was the custom to go, but by way of the west, by which down to this day we do not know certainly that anyone has passed; therefore, having driven out all the Jews from your realms and lordships in the same month of January, Your Highnesses commanded me that, with a sufficient fleet, I should go to the said parts of India, and for this accorded me great rewards and ennobled me so that from that time henceforth I might style myself “Don†and be high admiral of the Ocean Sea and viceroy and perpetual Governor of the islands and continent which I should discover…and that my eldest son should succeed to the same position, and so on from generation to generation forever.
Here is the link if do not believe me http://www.britannica.com/ eb/ article-9109621/ Christopher-Columbus
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:46 pm
And where , do tell , does that article claim that Columbus was interested in future military operations as a reason for his voyage , clueless wonder ?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:49 pmUm. If Europe was so all fired concerned about retaking the Holly Land; why did they embark on a half-millennium of war, amongst themselves, for control of Europe and the New World?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:49 pmComment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:46 pm
There is nothing in there at all about a back door to attack Islam, mandolin. Please learn to read.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:50 pmNo. Sorry, but you’re wrong. I don’t know where you get your information, but it’s just flat wrong. I’ve seen the Music Director argue with the pastor, and I’ve seen at least one Music Director quit and take the entire choir with him because of the argument, but except for the most extreme circumstances, this is entirely the job of the Music Director.
Like I said, you’re just going to the wrong church . . . except you don’t go at all.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
Oh really ?
If that's true , why did one argue with the pastor and the other quit ?
It is not up to the music director ; he/she simply does not have final say , as your own words have just revealed above.
If the music director had final , they would not have to argue , never mind quit , over their selection(s)............
March 12th, 2008 at 6:51 pmComment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:46 pm
That's the best you got?
Columbus talking about converting Muslims? He spends way more time talking about what's in it for him.
That's what convinces you that Columbus sailed in order to defeat Islam?
Man, you dudes are easily convinced if it's something you want to hear, no matter how much at odds with reason.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:52 pmAfter reading the excerpt from Columbus’s journal that I posted above, please reiterate your position that “Suggesting he was looking for a back door into the Ottoman Empire, though, is just hysterical.â€
HA HA HA HA
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
OK. It's just hysterical. It's hysterical that you can't read.
He says he's to go to the Indies, convert the heathen and gain enormous wealth, in return for which Ferdinand and Isabella are going to make him high admiral, viceroy and perpetual Governor. Nothing about war, nothing about attacking the Muslims from behind. Nothing.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:52 pmMaybe you guys should reread the article. I've posted the link, so I will not have to fill up the message board with excerpts. You guys are clearly wrong and you would benefit greatly to just admit that I am smarter than you.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:53 pmLike I said, you’re just going to the wrong church . . . except you don’t go at all.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
BTW
I'm not missing much by not going ; I don't need a bunch of fictional stories/fairy tales to tell me how to live.
If anything , your repeating that I do not attend church makes me feel better and feel bad that you are gullible enough to attend regularly ; my condolences.............
March 12th, 2008 at 6:55 pmOh really ?
If that’s true , why did one argue with the pastor and the other quit ?
It is not up to the music director ; he/she simply does not have final say , as your own words have just revealed above.
If the music director had final , they would not have to argue , never mind quit , over their selection(s)…………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:51 pm
In the first case, they argued because they disagreed. I did not say that the director didn't win the argument. Pay attention.
In the second case, the director believed that the choir should sing all the music and never the congregation; the priest disagreed and since they were both pigheaded converts to Catholicism, he packed up his choir and left.
I also made it clear that these were exceptions and that the Directors jobs were to (a) direct the choir and (b) choose the music. If you visit Portland, I'll introduce you to a few Music Directors and you can hear it from them.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:55 pmMaybe you guys should reread the article.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
Maybe you should point out what phrase convinces you that Columbus wanted to attack Muslims and retake the Holy Land?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:57 pmIf anything , your repeating that I do not attend church makes me feel better and feel bad that you are gullible enough to attend regularly ; my condolences………….
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
My point is only that, since you don't actually go to church you're hardly in a position to know what music directors can and cannot do. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what you do or do not do. Seriously.
I also never said I attended regularly, and never implied as much. In fact, I'm pretty much fallen away. What I did appreciate most about our parish was the fantastic music, which was always the most spiritual part of the Mass. If you don't get it, fine. I don't care.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:57 pmMaybe you guys should reread the article. I’ve posted the link, so I will not have to fill up the message board with excerpts. You guys are clearly wrong and you would benefit greatly to just admit that I am smarter than you.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
You're a Christofascist defending twit ; I don't know anyone who would claim that is in any way smart or intelligent.
BTW
When you post an article , you're supposed to post the section that confirms your assertion(s). You did not.
That isn't indicative someone that's smart at all , much less someone who (laughably) claims to be more intelligent than everyone else...............
March 12th, 2008 at 6:57 pmMaybe you guys should reread the article. I’ve posted the link, so I will not have to fill up the message board with excerpts. You guys are clearly wrong and you would benefit greatly to just admit that I am smarter than you.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
The whole point of quoting something is to quote the relevant portion, Mr. So Much Smarter. If you failed to do so, you can hardly blame the rest of us.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:58 pmThat isn’t indicative someone that’s smart at all , much less someone who (laughably) claims to be more intelligent than everyone else……………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:57 pm
To be fair, mando didn't actually claim to be more intelligent than everyone else; he claimed to be better educated than everyone else.
Now, the claim he made is obviously no more accurate than the claim you attributed to him. But we should at least be accurate when we criticize trolls.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:00 pmSweet jeebus, I go away to do some work and come back to find someone trying to advance the "round the world invasion theory". Mandy, perhaps you can explain what they taught you in "Conservative History Class" about who governed the land that is now India at the time Columbus was trying to reach it (I'll give you a hint: his crew included a translator fluent in Arabic -- I'm sure you knew that being an expert and all). The writings of Columbus make clear that he considered himself to be a devout Christian by the standards of the day. That necessarily included enmity towards Islam as evidenced by the Spanish defeat of the Moors and the Ottoman threat to eastern Europe. Other than the possibility that he was somewhere in the vicinity when Grenada fell to the Spanish however there is nothing to suggest he ever came close to lifting a finger against that enemy. Had he wished to I suspect as a good Genoese sailor he would have found the front door to the holy land much closer seeing as how it was just across a much smaller sea. Had he wished to fight the Turks he could have joined his slavic friends -- some of whom lived in areas formerly part of Genoa's sphere of influence -- who were desperately fighting off the sultan's armies while this back door invasion through the Indies was allegedly on the drawing board. Yup, Columbus fought Islam just like Bush kept the VC out of Alabama.
Want to go double or nothing on the "U.S. formed to fight Islam" myth?
March 12th, 2008 at 7:01 pmRalph, he said he was "smarter".
You guys are clearly wrong and you would benefit greatly to just admit that I am smarter than you.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:02 pmIf anything , your repeating that I do not attend church makes me feel better and feel bad that you are gullible enough to attend regularly ; my condolences………….
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
My point is only that, since you don’t actually go to church you’re hardly in a position to know what music directors can and cannot do. Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn what you do or do not do. Seriously.
I also never said I attended regularly, and never implied as much. In fact, I’m pretty much fallen away. What I did appreciate most about our parish was the fantastic music, which was always the most spiritual part of the Mass. If you don’t get it, fine. I don’t care.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 6:57 pm
Just because I do not attend (because it's a ruse and a fraud) , means I don't know what's going on there ?
Especially seeing as how I'm a musician by trade and know more music directors than you probably know people ?
Could you be any more obtuse ?
BTW You don't need Mass to be or feel spiritual ; nor do you need any type of religion or religious belief to be moral.
Music is what makes me spiritual and lifts my spirit(s) , as it does for a number of people ; that you don't get that people can feel similar sensations to yourself without using/needing the crutch that is religion/Mass , is your own doing and limitation.
That you cannot fathom that doesn't effect me 1 iota............
March 12th, 2008 at 7:04 pmRalph, he said he was “smarterâ€.
You guys are clearly wrong and you would benefit greatly to just admit that I am smarter than you.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 7:02 pm
I stand corrected. Thanks, gum.
So mando is wrong twice. At least.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:04 pmThat isn’t indicative someone that’s smart at all , much less someone who (laughably) claims to be more intelligent than everyone else……………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 6:57 pm
To be fair, mando didn’t actually claim to be more intelligent than everyone else; he claimed to be better educated than everyone else.
Now, the claim he made is obviously no more accurate than the claim you attributed to him. But we should at least be accurate when we criticize trolls.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 7:00 pm
RTWL , the turd did claim he was indeed "smarter" (though I don't believe anyone can explain why he would ever claim that)
March 12th, 2008 at 7:07 pmOh double jeebus, please don't go whipping out the Encyclopedia Britannica on us!!! We'll be good, honest. Um, Mandy, this may be an esoteric concept for you but let's try it out. Columbus had no funding. Columbus needed funding. Spain had little wealth, having used a lot to push out the Moors. Ferdinand in particular did however style himself as a strong defender of the Christian faith having recently Christianized a Muslim-occupied European land. If you want to entice a cash-strapped monarch to show you the money, one good way to do so is to weave a bit of faith-based motive into your predominantly commercial enterprise. The text from your oh so authoritative article alludes to as much (*chortle* seriously dude, most of us stopped citing this kid of source around 5th grade when we started reading books without pictures, where did you get this great education?). Again, I know this is kind of subtle but give it some thought. Anyway, I am late for my pottery class. Have a great night folks.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:10 pmI stand corrected. Thanks, gum.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — March 12, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
And I shall sit corrected!
March 12th, 2008 at 7:10 pmAnyway, I am late for my pottery class. Have a great night folks.
Comment by paleolib — March 12, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
OMG... look at the time... I'm late fer Kama Sutra 200A - Advanced Studies... wink, wink.
LATER, chumpolas!
March 12th, 2008 at 7:12 pmIf you can recall (and apparently you can not) Columbus thought he could sail around the world and find a route to India. He did this for trade reasons, but also to find a back door to the ottoman empire which had been preventing the Europeans from taking back the holy land. -- Mandolin
**************************************************
Even if that's true -- and it's possible that it is -- that still doesn't sufficiently explain why Parsley apparently considers Columbus's beliefs and intentions to be critically relevant to modern America's relations with Islam and the Islamic world. Apart from "discovering" the American continent -- a credit which every student of history knows may actually be open to debate (i.e., Leif Ericson) -- how are Columbus's beliefs and intentions really relevant to modern America apart from the national holiday which we celebrate in his honor? In what ways were his specific beliefs and intentions critical to the formulation of our country and our culture? Since Columbus died long before the establishment of the first permanent British settlements in North America, let alone the American Revolution, I think it's safe to say that the answer to that question is NONE -- certainly, I can't recall that any of the Founding Fathers described Christopher Columbus as being a particularly significant source of inspiration for their belief in the principles which prompted them to fight for their freedom and later create our system of laws. Citing Christopher Columbus in this context -- suggesting that we should combat Islam because Christopher Columbus supposedly believed in combating Islam -- is at best a very tangential and logically threadbare argument which only serves to demonstrate that the proponent of the argument is grasping at straws.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:14 pmis at best a very tangential and logically threadbare argument which only serves to demonstrate that the proponent of the argument is grasping at straws.
Comment by Bluestocking — March 12, 2008 @ 7:14 pm
I was under the impression that a great deal of the Constitution is based on John Locke's work and has NOTHING to do w/ religious writings...
March 12th, 2008 at 7:16 pmMusic is what makes me spiritual and lifts my spirit(s) , as it does for a number of people ; that you don’t get that people can feel similar sensations to yourself without using/needing the crutch that is religion/Mass , is your own doing and limitation.
That you cannot fathom that doesn’t effect me 1 iota…………
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
You're really an arrogant bugger. Where did I ever suggest that anyone could have "similar sensations" without attending Mass? You're the one projecting all over the place. You're a musician, so you know everything there is to know about music directors in churches. You don't believe in the value of religion so anyone who does hates you.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:17 pmExcuse me, I was upset. I meant where did I suggest that anyone could NOT have similar sensations?
March 12th, 2008 at 7:18 pmExcuse me, I was upset. I meant where did I suggest that anyone could NOT have similar sensations?
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 7:18 pm
Knock that shit off ; you don't need to apologize to me for anything .........
March 12th, 2008 at 7:21 pmRod Parsley is a JesusMongering IDIOT!!
McLame is a peacher-sucking assh0le!!!
March 12th, 2008 at 7:22 pmYou’re really an arrogant bugger. Where did I ever suggest that anyone could have “similar sensations†without attending Mass? You’re the one projecting all over the place. You’re a musician, so you know everything there is to know about music directors in churches. You don’t believe in the value of religion so anyone who does hates you.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
Well , you also stated that because I do not attend church at all , I don't know what goes on there in sofar as musical directors are concerned .........
And I did not claim "all" music directors ; but you stated that I did not know at all what goes on with music directors , which I have revealed is untrue.
I'm not the one "projecting" ; you are ......As you have also shown by stating : "You don’t believe in the value of religion so anyone who does hates you" ; I never intimated that.
BTW
I resent being called an "arrogant bugger" ; I'm more a big-mouthed , opinionated asswipe ..............
March 12th, 2008 at 7:29 pmI was under the impression that a great deal of the Constitution is based on John Locke’s work and has NOTHING to do w/ religious writings. -- The Republic of Stupidity
*********************************************
Exactly my point. People like Parsley and Mandolin are trying to convince us that simply because Christopher Columbus supposedly happened to "discover" the land mass on which we now walk -- which he did largely by accident, since he ostensibly intended to sail to India -- we somehow ought to consider ourselves duty-bound as Americans to share his putative beliefs and intentions even though these played no actual role as such in the formation of our nation and were at least in part a reflection of both the times in which he lived and the country which was paying for the voyage.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:33 pmBeautiful sword. Hideous b@stard.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:58 pmI’m more a big-mouthed , opinionated asswipe …………..
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
**snort**
Ya got me w/ dat one...
March 12th, 2008 at 8:00 pmI’m more a big-mouthed , opinionated asswipe …………..
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
**snort**
Ya got me w/ dat one…
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 12, 2008 @ 8:00 pm
Well , unlike Chimpy and his imbecilic backers here , I'm hardly delusional about who or what I am .............
March 12th, 2008 at 8:04 pmOMG… look at the time… I’m late fer Kama Sutra 200A - Advanced Studies… wink, wink.
LATER, chumpolas!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — March 12, 2008 @ 7:12 pm
Detailed report, please....
March 12th, 2008 at 8:05 pmI resent being called an “arrogant bugger†; I’m more a big-mouthed , opinionated asswipe …………..
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
Personally, I regret being an arrogant bugger.
As far as music is concerned, we probably have more in common than we'd willingly admit in the midst of a stupid argument.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:10 pmI resent being called an “arrogant bugger†; I’m more a big-mouthed , opinionated asswipe …………..
Comment by MCMetal — March 12, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
Personally, I regret being an arrogant bugger.
As far as music is concerned, we probably have more in common than we’d willingly admit in the midst of a stupid argument.
Comment by gummitch — March 12, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
Yeah
But you're probably more right than I am , anyway ......I'll live through it.
BTW
Don't regret being who you are ; it seems to be working .........
March 12th, 2008 at 8:16 pmThis crazy man Mr. Rod wants us to start a war against 58 Moslem countries...over 1.3 billion people in all continents on this planet to fulfill his religious interpretations whom he and his buddies invented.
McCain is getting himself deeper in trouble surrounding himself with these religious warriors like Parsely,Hagee and others who think the whole earth is designed to accommodate them only.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:17 pmIf you can recall (and apparently you can not) Columbus thought he could sail around the world and find a route to India. He did this for trade reasons, but also to find a back door to the ottoman empire which had been preventing the Europeans from taking back the holy land.
Comment by mandolin — March 12, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
Was pure bussiness. Common knowledge was that there existed a direct route by the East to Cipango (Japan), China and India, and that the world had a lesser radius. They did want a direct and faster maritime route of commerce to do bussiness, as I've said, avoiding thus a all the sailing around Africa, whose coasts were unknown under the Ivory Coast or so. And, well, America was a surprise. They didn't know its existance. The recovery of holy land was a very secondary motivation, if any. They had a more immediate problem ending the Reconquista, with their aspirations of unification of the Iberian penninsula kingdoms and lands, and with their European goals. Don't forget that they planted the seeds of the Holy Roman Empire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V%2C_Holy_Roman_Emperor
The subsequent disputes were more about dominancy of the Mediterranean sea trade, hampered by the Ottoman empire than an active will to recover the Holy Land.
As in today's "struggles" is a lot of talking about spiritual motivations (Christianity, Spreading Freedom), but a lot of action to improve bussiness, ideology be damned.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:41 pmNot to be confused with the Demon Spirit that grabbed ahold of George Herbert Walker Bush the night #43 was conceived.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:57 pmReverend Parsley doesn't know the half of it. World War II was fought to stop Muslims. Ditto World War I and the Civil War. Also Mickey Mantle hit home runs to turn back the Muslim tide, especially when batting right-handed. Judas did that thing he did he did to save Christ from the Muslims. Finally, the Big Bang was an explosion set off to rid the yet unformed universe of demon spirit. Rev, you're free to use my facts if you wish. Attribution is not required.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:28 pmMost all arguments here can be summed up like this in my humble opinion. Religion is the greatest evil ever perpetrated upon the human race.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:09 pmPlease keep your children as far from church as possible. They can think up goofy crap on their own that is probably far less harmful.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:23 pm.
T h e
G o d
of
Abraham
was a
d e m o n
s p i r i t?
.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:27 amthere is nothing in the Constitution ,Bill of Rights and Amendments about Islam. I am glad old Johnny keeps bringing in these Religious Bozo`s who are hurting his campaign.Old johnny must really have Dementia because he doesn`t have a clue what he is doing. His camp must not be very capable. I can see why the republicans are are not showing up to vote in the primaries.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:57 amIf you don’t want to be saved, stay home and wait for hell.
Comment by Daryll
That's interesting. The devil makes house calls, but God doesn't.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:00 amIf you can recall (and apparently you can not) Columbus thought he could sail around the world and find a route to India. He did this for trade reasons, but also to find a back door to the ottoman empire which had been preventing the Europeans from taking back the holy land. — Mandolin
Typical "red herring". Christofascists try to conflate Columbus with founding of "this nation" or Pilgrims at Plymouth with founding "this nation" so that they can ignore Adams, Jefferson, Madison, et al who actually founded "this nation" on Enlightenment ideals of natural rights and the social contract a la Locke, Rousseau, etc.
And the reason he never pointed out the exact words from his quotation that supported his claims is because he couldn't. I see my Repug students do this all the time. They allege something, then when you ask for the exact supporting evidence, they provide the proverbial "red herring". Then act like somehow you're insane for demanding real evidence, and that they are so much smarter because of their "moral values".
And they never see the irony.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:50 amComment by Angry McAngus — March 13, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Are you saying that we - U.S. Citizens - would have the U.S.A. that we know and cherish without the influence of
Christianity and
the Bible?
March 13th, 2008 at 12:45 pmAre you saying that we - U.S. Citizens - would have the U.S.A. that we know and cherish without the influence of Christianity and the Bible? -- Bitblt
*****************************************************
Let's see now...
Does the text of the Declaration of Independence include the words "Bible", "Christ", or "Jesus"? No, it doesn't. There is one occurrence of the word "God" but the context in which it appears (..."the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them"...) leave at least some room for doubt whether this is a specific reference to the biblical God. There is also one occurrence of the word "Creator" -- but again, this reference is somewhat vague and may or may not specifically refer to the biblical God.
Let's look at the Constitution...any mention of the words "Bible", "Christ", "God", or "Jesus" within the text? Nope -- NONE, for all four words. Since it seems safe to argue that these two documents constitute the foundation upon which this country was built, and since neither of these documents make much reference to God or to Jesus, then I think it's also safe to argue that the answer to your question is YES.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:43 pmAre you saying that we - U.S. Citizens - would have the U.S.A. that we know and cherish without the influence of
Christianity and
the Bible?
Comment by bitblt — March 13, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
====
Influenced = Yes
Reliant upon = No
To be fair, we wouldn't have the U.S.A. that we know and cherish without the influence of Islam and Judaism as well as many other religions. Pretty sure the US was and still is for the most part a mixing pot of world views (see the current discussion) and religions and therefore many MANY groups contributed to the basic ideas and principles of the US's founding.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:26 pmComment by Bluestocking — March 13, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
bitblt certainly disagrees.
bitblt’s question should not be construed to mean that the U.S. is a “Christian†nation. bitblt believes the U.S. was intended to be a nation for a Christian people, and he believes that without the influence of Christianity and the Bible there would not be the U.S. we know today.
The following quote seems appropriate:
Quoted from http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2971
References at the link.
Nonetheless the U.S. Constitution has three references or allusions to Christianity.
The first reference is the First Amendment itself. Drafts of this amendment make it clear that its purpose was to insure that no membership in a particular Christian denomination would be required to hold a Federal office. In the early U.S. many states did have state religions. I’m told that one of the twelve drafts which survives actually uses the word â€Christian.†Other writings at the time of and near the time of the writing of the constitution also make the intent clear. The writers of the constitution assumed that Christianity would always be the predominate religion. The First Amendment was never meant say that all beliefs are equal. This would include non-belief – atheism - being equal to belief.
The second reference is the counting of business days. The Christian day of worship, Sunday, is excluded when counting business days.
The third reference is the dating of the Constitution. The document uses the phrase, “In the year of our Lord.†This one seems rather obvious when you consider that C.E was available to the writers.
bitblt thinks that the intent of the founders is important, but he thinks the worldview of the current citizens is important for the preservation, for the future of the nation we have. His worldview seems to be different that yours.
It seems to bitblt that the Christian worldview is the one that brought the nation to this point.
That would be the …
…above.
Do you think your worldview is the one that will hold the nation together in the future?
March 13th, 2008 at 3:27 pmTo be fair, we wouldn’t have the U.S.A. that we know and cherish without the influence of Islam and Judaism as well as many other religions. Pretty sure the US was and still is for the most part a mixing pot of world views (see the current discussion) and religions and therefore many MANY groups contributed to the basic ideas and principles of the US’s founding.
Comment by Alex Encandar — March 13, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
There certainly wouldn't be Christianity without Judaism. So in this regard bitblt agrees.
However, your remark about Islam seems to bitblt to be more of a twenty-first century answer to a question mostly set in the eighteenth century.
bitblt is not aware of any contribution made by Islam to the founding of the U.S., but he’s open to hearing about it
Further, bitblt doesn’t see how Moslem influence will contribute to insuring the future of the U.S, but he's also open to hearing about that.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:45 pmbitblt’s question should not be construed to mean that the U.S. is a “Christian†nation. bitblt believes the U.S. was intended to be a nation for a Christian people, and he believes that without the influence of Christianity and the Bible there would not be the U.S. we know today.
despite bitblt's propensity for referring to himself in the third person, angry mcangus will respond.
another blooody logical fallacy bitblt. this one a "straw man". No one has claimed that Christianity and the Bible didn't affect the bloody history of the US. Obviously, it has influenced all of Western Culture since, oh, about the Augustan age.
that is not what the thread was about. it was about this fookin preacher's claim that the US "was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false [Islam] religion destroyed".
warrant that claim and quit changing the blooody sooobject.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:42 pmThe sixth President of the United States, John Quincy Adams, reflecting on the origin of the nation, stated succinctly the role that God played in America’s founding
bitblt has referenced the son of a man pivotal to the American Revolution, who happens to be a fairly conservative and pious Christian. but it's still his opinion, which he's certainly entitled to.
here's another man's:
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. . . . Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error. Give a loose to them, they will support the true religion, by bringing every false one to their tri bunal, to the test of ther investigation. . . Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformithy. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth. Let us reflect that it is inhabited by a thousand millions of people. That these profess probably a thousand different systems of religion. That ours is but one of that thousand. That if there be but one right, and ours that one, we should wish to see the 999 wandering sects gathered into the fold of truth. But against such a majority we cannot effect this by force. Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments. To make way for these, free enquiry must be indulged; and how can we wish others to indulge it while we refuse it ourselves [?]"
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia
John Quincy Adams saying the way things were doesn't make things that way. I've no doubt he probably truly felt what he said, but he doesn't speak for Jefferson, obviously. Adams already had an agenda, but he doesn't speak for his father either:
John Adams, the second U.S. President rejected the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and became a Unitarian. It was during Adams' presidency that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli, which states in Article XI that:
March 13th, 2008 at 8:11 pmAs the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arrising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (Charles I. Bevans, ed. Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949. Vol. 11: Philippines-United Arab Republic. Washington D.C.: Department of State Publications, 1974, p. 1072).