ThinkFast: March 18, 2008
ThinkFast: March 18, 2008
“My life has been flushed down the drain,” said one Bear Stearns employee.
Bear Stearns had always encouraged its 14,000 employees, “from secretaries to top executives, to be long-term holders in the company’s stock, and the employees own over 30 percent of the company.”
A New York Times editorial warns that “if the United States government doesn’t stabilize the markets, foreign governments increasingly will, in exchange for an ever larger stake in the American financial system.” The Fed’s unprecedented loans to banks “cannot save defaulting homeowners, transform bad mortgage loans into good ones, or do the same for hundreds of billions of dollars of securities tied to those loans.”
Rep. David Dreier (R-CA) “failed to disclose tens of thousands of dollars in profits he made on stock sales on his annual financial disclosure forms for the past several years.” Last Thursday, after inquiries by Roll Call, Dreier filed an amendment to “his 2004, 2005 and 2006 disclosure forms” listing previously undisclosed stock sales “totaling between $85,000 and $263,000 in income.”
Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell recently delivered a speech that contained a story about an historical radio conversation at sea. “This is true. It’s an actual recording,” McConnell said. In fact, McConnell’s story was “untrue. False. Urban naval legend. Never happened.”
“A conference to reconcile Iraq’s warring political groups began to unravel even before it got under way on Tuesday, with the main Sunni Muslim Arab bloc pulling out and protesting it had not been properly invited.”
Newsweek’s Fareed Zakaria writes that the U.S. is “stuck in the Iraq loop.” “We are told that the surge has worked brilliantly and violence is way down. And yet the plan to reduce troop levels — which was at the heart of the original surge strategy — must be postponed or all hell will once again break loose.”
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has confirmed that his government will “at some point” hold an inquiry into the lessons to be learned from the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath. But, he said that time is not is “not now.”
A U.N.-supported report released yesterday conducted by the World Glacier Monitoring Service at the University of Zurich has found that “most of the world’s mountain glaciers, many of which feed major rivers and water supplies, are shrinking at an accelerating pace as the climate warms.”
Mirroring the results of a new CNN poll, a recent USA Today/Gallup poll has found that 76 percent of Americans think the U.S. economy is in recession. “Not since September 1992, two months before President George H.W. Bush lost re-election, have so many said the economy was in such bad shape.”
And finally: Echoing his infamous declaration in 2005 that former FEMA chief Michael “Brownie” Brown was “doing a heckuva job” responding to Hurricane Katrina, President Bush thanked Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson yesterday “for working over the weekend” in response to the long-brewing economic crisis.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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NEW REPORT: ABU GHRAIB PRISONERS PACKED IN ICE WATER-FILLED GARBAGE CANS AND SENT INTO SHOCK, MILITARY POLICE SAY
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/31874
March 18th, 2008 at 8:58 am“My life has been flushed down the drain,” said one Bear Stearns employee.
Bear Stearns had always encouraged its 14,000 employees, “from secretaries to top executives, to be long-term holders in the company’s stock, and the employees own over 30 percent of the company.”
“Can you say ‘Enron’, kids? I know it’s a funny word, but try it: ‘Enn-ron’….”
Cheers,
March 18th, 2008 at 9:01 amThe B Word (Bailout)
By Paul Krugman, The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/17/opinion/17krugman.html?_r=2&th&emc=th&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
** This is why extreme ideologists like Mr. Greenspan have no business holding positions, in the public sphere, that affect millions. In his mind he did nothing wrong. All the bankers will be bailed out with public funds. It’s only a matter of time before they do it all again.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:08 amThe Fed’s unprecedented loans to banks “cannot save defaulting homeowners, transform bad mortgage loans into good ones, or do the same for hundreds of billions of dollars of securities tied to those loans.”
The Feds (i.e. the Bush Administration) are not in the least interested in helping the homeowner. They only care about helping their rich donor friends.
If the people who have gotten rich and are now losing their wealth because of the Republican financial shenanigans haven’t learned their lesson, then to hell with them. I find it amazing that they didn’t see the danger in bankrupting our country while they were getting rich.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:14 amPresident Bush thanked Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson yesterday “for working over the weekend” in response to the long-brewing economic crisis.
Wow! Henry we’re all overwhelmed at your work ethic & the fact you actually worked on a weekend. Awesome!
Of course, the fact that you gave $30 Billion of our taxpayer’s money to subsidize a buyout by another corporate piranha makes us wish you’d stay home weekends.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:15 am/snark
Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell recently delivered a speech that contained a story about an historical radio conversation at sea. “This is true. It’s an actual recording,” McConnell said. In fact, McConnell’s story was “untrue. False. Urban naval legend. Never happened.”
Republicans wouldn’t know the truth if it hit them in the head with a two-by-four. We are a nation run by a bunch of pathological liars.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:16 am“My life has been flushed down the drain,” said one Bear Stearns employee.
Bear Stearns had always encouraged its 14,000 employees, “from secretaries to top executives, to be long-term holders in the company’s stock, and the employees own over 30 percent of the company.”
It’s Enron all over again, and Bush sits there like a jackass an laughs. Oh wait…he IS a jackass.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:16 amBritish Prime Minister Gordon Brown has confirmed that his government will “at some point” hold an inquiry into the lessons to be learned from the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath. But, he said that time is not is “not now.”
So Mr. Brown, why is that time not now? What do you need to wait for?
March 18th, 2008 at 9:18 amBear Stearns had always encouraged its 14,000 employees, “from secretaries to top executives, to be long-term holders in the company’s stock, and the employees own over 30 percent of the company.”
I’m sorry did you miss the class on diversification while you were earning your MBA?
March 18th, 2008 at 9:18 amA U.N.-supported report released yesterday conducted by the World Glacier Monitoring Service at the University of Zurich has found that “most of the world’s mountain glaciers, many of which feed major rivers and water supplies, are shrinking at an accelerating pace as the climate warms.”
New York City will be under 20 feet of water and the righties will still be denying that Global Warming is happening or that it is a problem. Unfortunately, by that time, it will be too late.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:19 amGreed and the failure of the administration to provide leadership to reign it in will cost us all billions and will push us further down into the crowd. Amazing how quickly they can move to bail out the big financials and how much they can drag their feet on helping the little guy, erstwhile home owner (trying for the “American dream”). Thank you Cheney-Bush and the Neo-con crony-capitalist crowd.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:20 amOne of the dangers of having a President who has watched every business venture in his life collapse is, well, unfolding before our very eyes…he’s destroying the business known as the USA.
Meanwhile, back at the invasion, Dirty Dick is still connecting dots that don’t exist between Saddam & AQ.
And while McWar basks in the comfort of his kevlar, he still doesn’t have a clue to what’s really happening economically.
Bush recently claimed he got a ‘C’ in Econ 101. I’ll just bet if we look closer at his grade, he got a big, fat ‘F’…& McWar never even took the course.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:20 am401-Ki$$ your a$$ets goodbye!
March 18th, 2008 at 9:21 amThese failing companies have one thing in common,their CEOs and managment bosses always leave with nice sums of money right before these companies finally collapse,while employees,stockholders,bond holders,and creditors get the shaft at the end.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:21 amI’m sorry did you miss the class on diversification while you were earning your MBA?
I’m fairly sure that the secretaries and other worker bees at this company did not have an MBA. On the other hand, the fact that they saw Enron go up in flames and the resultant damage done to employees, one would think that even the secretaries would have been a little more cautious.
The problem here is that these companies encourage their employees to invest in their own companies by giving them matching stock buys, like you buy three shares and we’ll give you one. It’s an irresistible lure for many people.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:25 amAmazing how quickly they can move to bail out the big financials and how much they can drag their feet on helping the little guy, erstwhile home owner (trying for the “American dream”). Thank you Cheney-Bush and the Neo-con crony-capitalist crowd.
Any voter out there who isn’t uber rich who votes for a Republican deserves what will happen to them. I am hoping that this financial mess will be enough to wake up the conservative voters in the heartland so that they won’t, once again, vote against their own best interests by voting Republican.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:27 am‘Everybody’s Working for the Weekend’…Loverboy
March 18th, 2008 at 9:33 amWhat is happening with the economy?
No madness is worst than greed. Every so often people assume that somehow they can make money out of the thin air. The most famous one was the Tulip mania of 1636-1637 in Netherland and the most recent one was the “dotcom” bubble of 1995-2001 (on March 10th, 2000 the NASDAQ peaked at 5132.52). Today we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the real estate bubble.
When President Bush entered office he gave one trillion dollars (tax cut) to the wealthy. In effect he increased the tolerance for financial risk of the wealthy individuals and companies even further. Later, he started the Iraq war, pouring billions of dollars into the economy. One should not forget that when the US government spends about $2 billion a week in Iraq, most of that money finds its way back into the US economy (salaries, armament, etc). But all these monies were borrowed money (deficit spending), and all the growth and feeling of well being was illusory.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_dr__abba_080316_what_is_happening_wi.htm
There are so many things coming to fruition for the neos and their minions. Don’t ever believe any of this happened by accident.
H/T Cali
March 18th, 2008 at 9:33 am…the plan to reduce troop levels — which was at the heart of the original surge strategy — must be postponed or all hell will once again break loose.”
Perhaps they should have branded it, “The Plug”.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:35 amHas anyone, besides myself, seen “Rollover?”
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083006/
“Jane Fonda might have unwittingly been on to something in 1981, when she released a movie called “Rollover”, which (mercifully) remains the only movie involving foreign investment into the U.S., Fed policy, a clumsy murder and equally clumsy love scenes between Fonda and Kris Kristofferson.”
March 18th, 2008 at 9:35 amFor a man with a collapsing economy and two ongoing wars and occupations, Boy George sure laughs and chuckles alot.
-GSD
March 18th, 2008 at 9:36 am“A conference to reconcile Iraq’s warring political groups began to unravel even before it got under way on Tuesday, with the main Sunni Muslim Arab bloc pulling out and protesting it had not been properly invited.”
Yeah, these guys just need another half a Friedman to get it together. C’mon, people now Smile on your Sunni brother Everybody get together Try to love one another right now.
Another BushitCo fairy tale.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:37 amtarazan Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:21 am
this might make you feel better (it does for me):
“Cayne still owns a 5 percent stake in the company. Before last week he was estimated to be worth about $1 billion. Cayne, 74, stepped down as CEO in January after 15 years and much of the blame for the collapse has been placed on him. He owns 5.6 million shares, which last month were valued at $80 a piece or $449 million. The JPMorgan Chase sale values those shares at just $11.2 million.”
March 18th, 2008 at 9:38 amG’morning all.
It’s twenty minutes to ten A.M. Eastern time – trolls with talking points at the top of the hour
March 18th, 2008 at 9:38 amDoes anyone here know what is going to happen to the homeowners who lose their homes to foreclosure? One would think that would be the end of it. But, it’s not. Let’s say you owed $200,000 on your mortgage when they foreclosed. Then the lender sells your house for $150,000 (probably to a real-estate speculator). What is going to happen is that the IRS is going to send that family that lost their home a tax bill for $50,000. You see, the lender will declare that $50,000 as a loss and the IRS has to offset the loss. So, the homeowner will have to pay taxes on the $50,000 like it was income. I know this is how it works because it happened to a friend of mine.
If the Bush Crime Family does nothing else to help out the homeowners who are losing their homes, they can do away with the travesty of taxing the homeowner for the loss.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:38 amIf Lehman Brothers fails today, will we see the ‘domino effect’?
This financial ‘house of cards’ could fall quicker than Tom DeLay’s reputation. Will the Bush cabal inject more taxpayer money into failing financial brokers? JP Morgan just got 20% of the entire economic stimulus package in one, brief weekend afternoon.
Where does this end?
Is their a floor in here?
March 18th, 2008 at 9:40 am“My life has been flushed down the drain,” said one Bear Stearns employee.
Bear Stearns had always encouraged its 14,000 employees, “from secretaries to top executives, to be long-term holders in the company’s stock, and the employees own over 30 percent of the company.”
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Cue the trolls blaming these victims in
March 18th, 2008 at 9:42 am3…
2…
1…
#6 Bilbo HUssein Baggins:
Republicans wouldn’t know the truth if it hit them in the head with a two-by-four. We are a nation run by a bunch of pathological liars.
Yes. There is that possibility. Admiral McConnell either hasn’t spent time in the foc’sle or he’s just telling another lie for the cause.
Cheers,
March 18th, 2008 at 9:52 amMirroring the results of a new CNN poll, a recent USA Today/Gallup poll has found that 76 percent of Americans think the U.S. economy is in recession. “Not since September 1992, two months before President George H.W. Bush lost re-election, have so many said the economy was in such bad shape.”
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Naturally, there will be a lot of argument from the remaining 24% as to the definition of “recession” and what constitutes a “recession”. It seems to me that three quarters of the people in this country are feeling the pain while the bickering continues. When the problem is that profound, does it really matter what it’s called?
March 18th, 2008 at 9:52 amWho did this Bear Stearns employee vote for in 2000 and 2004. My bet it was Bush. And while working class Americans were losing their jobs that paid decent wages because corporations were shipping them overseas to make bigger profits these investors told us about how corporations needed to make bigger profits.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:54 amAll these middle class folks who voted against their own best interests want our sympathy now when they were the same folks blaming the victims who fell before them.
found some interesting ammunition for the climate change deniers who visit:
Fashions do change. Global warming denial is out of vogue. Unfortunately, though, the climate change do-nothing set is sporting a new line: “Why should we bother fighting climate change when China’s emissions are increasing?”
It’s true that China’s galloping economy means that the country’s total emissions are on the rise—they are now the world’s number-one emitter. But China has also unveiled aggressive emissions reduction policies. Indeed, it may be the United States that will need to play catch-up with China, not the other way around.
read on – it’s short: http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=2275
March 18th, 2008 at 9:55 amPresident Bush thanked Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson yesterday “for working over the weekend” in response to the long-brewing economic crisis.
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The economy has now replaced the war in Iraq as the number one issue for voters. While I’m glad that Paulson cares enough about it to work over the weekend, I doubt that’s going to do much. We are going to need some real fixes for problems like the housing crash, unemployment, the sinking dollar, and skyrocketing debt. So far, Bush’s only solution is “make the tax cuts permanent.”
March 18th, 2008 at 9:56 amGSD Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:36 am
For a man with a collapsing economy and two ongoing wars and occupations, Boy George sure laughs and chuckles alot.
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AND tap dances…
March 18th, 2008 at 9:57 ammatter of fact, many should find the latest issue of YES to be very informative…
Climate Solutions: the NEW issue of YES!
March 18th, 2008 at 9:58 amhttp://yesmagazine.org/
Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell recently delivered a speech that contained a story about an historical radio conversation at sea. “This is true. It’s an actual recording,” McConnell said. In fact, McConnell’s story was “untrue. False. Urban naval legend. Never happened.”
Please…considering some of the things which Bush administration officials have claimed to be true which weren’t/aren’t true, this one is positively tame by comparison. Nevertheless, it raises some distinctly uncomfortable questions. If McConnell wrote this speech himself, why did he reference this supposed recording which doesn’t actually exist — especially since the putative conversation doesn’t relate to intelligence gathering and was simply being used as an illustrative metaphor in the context of his speech (and that in the most tangential way)? Perhaps McConnell — for that matter, the whole administration — could use a little refresher on what happens to people who get in the habit of making claims which prove not to be true (like the Boy Who Cried Wolf, perhaps?) If McConnell didn’t write this speech himself, what does it say about the people on his staff? To say the very least, it’s not an encouraging sign when the Director of National Intelligence includes a factual inaccuracy in a speech, no matter how comparatively trivial it may be — if they’re claiming this as fact without having verified it as such, what other “false facts” might be slipping through?
And finally: Echoing his infamous declaration in 2005 that former FEMA chief Michael “Brownie” Brown was “doing a heckuva job” responding to Hurricane Katrina, President Bush thanked Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson yesterday “for working over the weekend” in response to the long-brewing economic crisis.
Bush might be surprised (although probably not interested) to know that for a good many rank-and-file working stiffs, working over the weekend in addition to a full five-day week isn’t just a response to a crisis situation — it’s what they have to do to simply get by, either in the form of a second job or as an implicit expectation of their primary job.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:58 amIsrael to hold its largest-ever war drill…
In the face of a possible escalation with Syria and Iran’s efforts to obtain a nuclear weapon, parts of the country will shut down next month in what security officials say will be the largest emergency exercise in Israel’s history.
The drill, which is being organized by the newly-established National Emergency Authority, will take place over five days starting on Sunday, April 6.
But first, on Tuesday, a first-of-its-kind hospital emergency exercise will take place to see how Ashkelon’s Barzilai Medical Center would cope with a Grad missile hitting a five-story hospitalization building and an outpatient clinic’s laboratory filled with toxic chemicals and a fire breaking out, requiring patients to be lowered from the roof. Around 100 firemen, 10 fire service vehicles and various other equipment, as well as doctors and nurses, will participate in the drill, to be held between 11 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=5909
Just in case…while we are watching our economic meltdown, don’t forget to watch what else is going on. What do you think this might mean? This makes my blood run cold.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:01 ammissmolly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Call me a troll if you want because I will blame them. Do you understand they work for an investment firm? an investment firm! These people understand the market and investments and what do they do? They invest entirely in their own company without and regard for diversification. These people are frigin idiots.
On top of their own stupidity in regards to their own finances, lets not forget, these people essentially bankrupted their own company by making incredibly BAD investment decisions with other people’s money.
Who else am I suppossed to blame for this? You? Me? that guy waiting for the bus? How about a little accountability for the people actually making the stupid decisions?
March 18th, 2008 at 10:01 am35, Bluestocking…nice post, thank you.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:02 amoh, and last night’s guest on the DAILY SHOW was great… Brian Fagan…
another twist – DROUGHT…
“we could go down, but i think more likely we’ll survive, because we’re very clever” – the best part of his lesson… oh, after many millions perish…
http://www.thedailyshow.com/
March 18th, 2008 at 10:04 amYesterday morning Lawrence Kudlow from CNBC was on MSNBC Morning Joe blaming homeowners. He said home owners created the housing problem because,as he put it, 75% have cheated on their applications.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:05 amBut Kudlow made no mention of Borkers,mortgage companies, banks ,real estate agents who worked on and closed the deal.
He was quickly to blame the homeowners.
I have no doubt few might have cheated..but 75% of all applicants,sounds way high …!!!.
Kudlow also said government should not put regulations or interfer with our free markets…but Kudlow said nothing about the Fed pumping billions of dollars to save mismanaged corporations.
Kudlow provided no support for his claims of applicants cheating,but as usual,he showed a tendency to support corporate greed.
Important Bacteria Cultures Destroyed
Scientists wonder why the VA killed the collection of Legionnaire’s disease samples.
Let’s say your 48-year-old husband has just been diagnosed with Legionnaire’s disease in a hospital intensive care unit. You learn that the bacteria causing this disease spread in water supplies, and you have a hot tub at home where your teen-age kids are currently splashing about. How do you find out whether the hot tub was the source of your husband’s infection?
Until recently, you sent water samples to the Special Pathogens Lab at the Veterans Administration hospital outside Pittsburgh. That’s what Lynn Winn, of Orange, Calif., did in July 2006. But she never got the results, because the VA closed down the lab without processing her samples.
Six months later, in what infectious disease specialists around the world are calling a tragic, inexplicable act of vandalism, the VA incinerated the lab’s library of 4,000 microbe cultures, including the world’s most important collection of legionella bacteria, collected over a period of nearly 30 years.
No one seems to understand the point of this deliberate destruction. “My theory is that this was essentially a vindictive act,” sayd Dr. Victor L. Yu, who headed the lab. The VA has said the samples weren’t properly labeled. But Yu and his colleagues flatly deny that, and it seems hard to believe. VA spokesmen in Washington and Pittsburgh did not return several phone calls and emails seeking explanations.
http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/important-bacteria
What in the world were they thinking? Why would this have been done?
March 18th, 2008 at 10:11 amShayne Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:54 am
All these middle class folks who voted against their own best interests want our sympathy now when they were the same folks blaming the victims who fell before them.
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You have an excellent point. I have listened to conservatives constantly blame the victim — retirees whose employer has gambled away their pension (it’s their fault for placing their trust in their employer), homeowners who’ve been scammed with bad mortgages (it’s their fault for not reading the fine print), people who have been wiped out by the costs of a catastrophic illness (it’s their fault for not buying better health insurance instead of food) — the list goes on and on.
Every time I read the smug, pompous ravings of these “personal responsibility” talkers, I think “why are you so certain this could never happen to you?” I’m ashamed admit I’ve even WISHED some could meet with similar disasters, hoping that some empathy might set in.
I’m certain that some of the burned Bear Stearns employees are these same pompous “personal responsibility” preachers who voted for Bush. And I suppose I should gloat. But I still just feel sad — even though it was the greedhead mindset that caused this.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:12 amgood_golly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Major League Baseball has forced the closure of an online business run by a Barack Obama supporter
Ahh, guilt by association?
Give me a break.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:12 am“A billionaire just over a year ago when Bear’s stock soared past $160, his [James Cayne, Chairman] 5.8 million shares are now worth about $28 million” ( from the NYT)
5.8 million x $2 = $11.6 million, NOT $28 million
From #23 ( dimwit/tarazan, do you have a link for this? )
” Cayne, 74, stepped down as CEO in January after 15 years [...] He owns 5.6 million shares, which last month were valued at $80 a piece or $449 million. The JPMorgan Chase sale values those shares at just $11.2 million.”
So where does that 28 million figure come from? Bad math or was Cayne actually able to cash-out at $4 per share?
As Cayne “stepped down” in January, are we supposed to believe he didn’t cash-in at least some of his stock then? As it went from $160 to $80 over one year he surely would have cashed-in some of it! Assuming $80 and 20% of his total shares he’d still realize $92.8 million.
I highly doubt Cayne “owns” 5.6 or 5.8 million shares—surely he USED TO OWN that many shares.
Poor bastard! From Billionaire to mere Centillionaire in one fell swoops! How ever will he put food on his children” now?
March 18th, 2008 at 10:13 amOh the humanity!
41, GiGi,
Is that all you got?
Really?
A frigg’n t-shirt vendor violating copyright laws, when the Bush cabal pours $30 Billion into a private financial entity?
Bring it on, baby! If that’s all you got, you should be worried.
Very worried.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:13 amWait!!! These people didn’t learn from Enron not to do this?!?!?!
March 18th, 2008 at 10:15 amThe last couple of days have really made me stop and ask myself: is there anything good going on with America? Is there anyone out there that can turn this country around? Can America ever make a positive impact on the world as a whole anymore? Does anybody with any ability to change the direction even care anymore? Do the American people even know what is going on?
Although not an initial Obama supporter, I did see a slight glimmer of hope with him. That is all gone thanks to Hillary, she has already killed any hope and Obama can’t figure out how to deal with her. If Obama can’t deal with her, then does he really have what it takes to deal with the Repubs? Why does it take a Repubican until they are out of power to admit the truth (as they ALL do). Why are the Dems always rolling over for a 24% president.
I’ll stop my lamentations – its just really starting to get to me and I can’t imagine what kind of world I am leaving for my newly minted triplets.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:15 amoh, and check out last night’s MOMENT OF ZEN …
duby is cross-eyed loopy…
March 18th, 2008 at 10:16 amGolly goofy is really grasping at straws.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:17 amPathetic.
I wonder if good_golly knows whether or not McCain paid for the right to parody the Beach Boys (”bomb bomb Iran”).
March 18th, 2008 at 10:18 amA New York Times editorial warns that “if the United States government doesn’t stabilize the markets, foreign governments increasingly will, in exchange for an ever larger stake in the American financial system.”
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Our leaders are currently viewing foreign loans and investments as a bottomless well. I guess they figure that by the time China owns the whole country, somebody else will be in power and it won’t be their problem.
Whatever happened to running the country with a view to the future?
March 18th, 2008 at 10:19 amGov. Patterson shouldn’t really have to talk about problems with his marriage. His situation is obviously very different from Spitzer’s.
From the little I have seen of Patterson, he seems like a great guy. Refreshing openness from a politician.
Maybe the Spitzer scandal was a blessing for New York.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:21 amMy life has been flushed down the drain,” said one Bear Stearns employee. Bear Stearns had always encouraged its 14,000 employees, “from secretaries to top executives, to be long-term holders in the company’s stock, and the employees own over 30 percent of the company.
I would have thought financial-type people would be smarter than this. Suckers.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:23 amAnd finally: Echoing his infamous declaration in 2005 that former FEMA chief Michael “Brownie” Brown was “doing a heckuva job” responding to Hurricane Katrina, President Bush thanked Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson yesterday “for working over the weekend” in response to the long-brewing economic crisis.
Oh wow, he worked over a weekend!? Give the man a medal…
March 18th, 2008 at 10:25 amA U.N.-supported report released yesterday conducted by the World Glacier Monitoring Service at the University of Zurich has found that “most of the world’s mountain glaciers, many of which feed major rivers and water supplies, are shrinking at an accelerating pace as the climate warms
The cons and trolls know that most of the blue states are on the borders so they’ll gladly sacriifice NY, Ma, Ca, org etc. They’re willing to let fla go, collateral damage, but what they don’t realize is that the gays will just move inland and destroy the sanctity of marriage in ok an ohio.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:26 amObama is scheduled to give a speach to attempt to distance himself from Rev. “It’s all Whitey’s fault” Wright who had been Obama’s close spiritual advisor for 20 years, officiated at Obama’s wedding and baptized his two daughters
I have never agreed with any of my ministers 100%, even the two who married my wife and I, baptized my daughter, or baptized my grandchildren. I don’t even agree with my wife 100%. This is a phony issue meant to derail Obama’s campaign. But, I predict that he will come out of it OK and this will just reinforce the fact that Obama actually attends (physically and mentally) church.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am“So where does that 28 million figure come from?”
I read an article which used a figure of $4.75 a share. Where this figure came from I don’t know.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:30 amAn aide to Obama, whose speech will be delivered at a historic building across from Philadelphia’s Liberty Bell at 10:15 a.m. EDT (1415 GMT), said the speech will have a strong personal element. Obama worked late into the night on Sunday drafting it.
hope it’s broadcast later…
March 18th, 2008 at 10:30 amBobwurst Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
The cons and trolls know that most of the blue states are on the borders so they’ll gladly sacriifice NY, Ma, Ca, org etc. They’re willing to let fla go, collateral damage, but what they don’t realize is that the gays will just move inland and destroy the sanctity of marriage in ok an ohio.
Works for me. ;)
March 18th, 2008 at 10:31 amThe troll sure is shooting blanks this morning.
Put down the pop gun, fool. You are looking more pathetic with each post.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:31 amIt’s a very tough situation for the Bear Sterns employees, but especially after Enron, you can’t pass the responsibility for overexposure to the companies stock to anyone other than the employees that failed to diversify.
Having more than 5% of you’re nestegg invested in the company that you work at, is probably too much.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:32 amgood_golly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Excellent point, GG!
In that same vein, in order for us judge the credibility of any statements you post here, you should state who your spiritual leader is, and who performed the marriage ceremony for you and Mr. Golly, and who baptized your offspring.
Fair enough?
March 18th, 2008 at 10:32 amPlease, get your own blog, stupid fat Floridian.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:33 amkaty Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
An aide to Obama, whose speech will be delivered at a historic building across from Philadelphia’s Liberty Bell at 10:15 a.m. EDT (1415 GMT), said the speech will have a strong personal element. Obama worked late into the night on Sunday drafting it.
hope it’s broadcast later…
katy, if you find a link or the text of the speech, can you drop it by the Zoo? I’m going to be gone all day. :(
March 18th, 2008 at 10:35 amthe gays will just move inland and destroy the sanctity of marriage in ok an ohio.
I think that’s already been accomplished in OK. I know a “family” in Ok of six brothers and two sisters, and every one of them have been divorced (including mom and dad) for cheating on their spouses.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:35 amPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
This is a phony issue meant to derail Obama’s campaign.
——————————————
Amen. I can’t remember any other time when the views of a candidate’s clergyman was made such an issue, although the 1960 accusations that electing Kennedy “would put the Pope in the White House” came closest.
I have no idea who would actually believe the cherry-picked comments of Jeremiah Wright “prove” that Obama hates white people — except bigots who won’t be voting for Obama anyway.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am60- VerbalKint
“So where does that 28 million figure come from?”
I read an article which used a figure of $4.75 a share. Where this figure came from I don’t know.
—————-
So I guess the NYT reporter not only can’t do simple math, the reporter also has no sense of time and tense. It would appear that the NYT reporter is an idiot.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:38 amWhat did we miss?
Stupid fat Floridians should know why the primary votes won’t count there, but they’re TOO FAT AND STUPID to remember that when Florida (stupid people) moved their primary, they were WARNED it wouldn’t count.
FCUKING STUPID A$$ FLORIDIANS.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:39 amDalai Lama Says He’ll Resign if Violence Escalates
March 18th, 2008 at 10:39 amNew York Times – 48 minutes ago
Gurinder Osan/AP By SOMINI SENGUPTA DHARAMSALA, India – The Dalai Lama on Tuesday invited international observers, including Chinese officials, to scour his offices here and investigate whether he had any role in inciting the latest anti-Chinese …
_________________
Florida voters remain disenfranchised by DNC. Thank you Mr. Dean.
Didn’t you mean “Florida voters remain disenfranchised, but now it’s by the DNC?”
March 18th, 2008 at 10:39 amGOP Golly:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:43 amOur one-woman “truth” squad
Newsweek’s Fareed Zakaria Yes. I just checked. In January this asslicker said the Iraq “war was over.” And I remember before that how he was going around saying it was a big mistake. Now we’re “stuck in the Iraq loop.” This should go to show that this asslicker should never have any credibility even when he agrees with progressives. The same goes for the likes of Wolf, Scar, Howard, Dana and so on and so on.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:45 amObviously GG is winging it this morning until the RNC talking points are ready for him.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:46 amThe crash in Republican economics
YA THINK?????
LINK
March 18th, 2008 at 10:47 amGG will be out of a job come November. The days of 10 cents a post will be over for this idiot.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:48 amGood godly, you’re an complete retarded fcuking fat-body.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:48 amObama’s relationship to Wright is important for this reason:
He was in the church for 20 years, Wright married him and Michelle and later baptized Obama’s children.
I think Obama is responding appropriately; repudiating Wright’s racist and anti-American comments.
We still have racial problems in the U.S., but after you watch Wright’s comments, and the support he gets from what looks like mainstream blacks of the congregation, I believe that while whites have arguably made some gains when it comes to race, it is possible that racsism in the black community may have been ignored, until now. I am hopeful that Obama can provide leadership on the issue. In his position, he is our best hope to address a situation that has too long been ignored. I’m hopefully anticipating Obama’s comments.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:49 amgg and JMH should get together and share all their “useful” tips for Democrats — with each other only.
Obviously GG is winging it this morning until the RNC talking points are ready for him. Then s/he will be “right winging” it.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:49 amWell…heh, when your 20 years in the church with this bigot, you get your children baptized by this bigot and so on and so on…and you act like you didn’t know he was a bigot…makes you kinda look like a bigot, no??
But I forgot…only white people can be bigots…whoops, my bad.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:51 amgood_golly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
67. You’re late again Zooey. Drudge already has the full text posted.
Again? Better schedule that abortion.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:52 amI’d rather have Wright decrying racism in America than some
Catholic Priest molesting my young boys.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:55 amGiGi? gitrdone?
You realize that the Democrats are highly unlikely to win POTUS ‘08 unless they win Florida? So far, it looks like Dean has doomed your chances in that regard.
And so far, the economy still sucks, the war has no end in sight, our borders are unsecure, as is our food, and toys for our kids, republicans still are incompetents who let a city be flooded, and the electoral map is completely different than in ‘00 – but hold tight to your Florida fantasy, ’cause it’s about all you’ve got.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:56 amJeremiah Wright speaks for the majority of blacks. His views are shared by the majority of minorities.
Not surprising is that the truth is hard for racist white idiots to comprehend.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:59 amA New York Times editorial warns that “if the United States government doesn’t stabilize the markets, foreign governments increasingly will,
Inflation isnt a way to stabilise it. Neither is bailing them out. Make a law making it illegal for foreign investors to bail them out. We are better off without these money vultures.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:00 amAudit reveals problems with U.S. terror watch list
Inaccuracies may let terrorists go unnoticed, audit reveals
LINK
March 18th, 2008 at 11:01 amIf David Duke spoke for the majority of whites, would that make it the truth? Should we all just accept the views, because they are shared by the majority?
Better think through that position again.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:02 amThe report by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn Fine helps explain why innocent travelers continue to be misidentified as terrorism suspects despite efforts by the federal government to improve its databases of more than 900,000 watch list names.
This is all Daryll’s fault. If he were doing his job as a low level black box tester for the DOD (Dept of Dufi), these types of glitches would have been caught and corrected.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:03 amWhy does Daryll pretend to love jeebus while hating America?
Please, inbred racist tools,
Explain how Reverend Wright’s comments are wrong?
Just because your thin white skin doesn’t like hearing the truth, doesn’t mean you’re right either.
And since the only one’s decrying his statements are white, I’ll take that as proof that you’re stance is a purely racist one.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:05 amObama repudiated Wright’s expression on KO the other night, I don’t see McCreamed repudiating Rev Hagee’s hate speech, nor Rod Parsley’s extremist XianFascist views.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:08 amAnd since the only one’s decrying his statements are white, I’ll take that as proof that you’re stance is a purely racist one.
Think about this:
If the only people decrying slavery before the Civil War were black, you would consider their views racist?
I’m afraid you’re living in a fog, where you believe that the only people who can be racist have white skin.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:09 amyou were a white candidate for President and attended David Duke’s meetings for 20 years, called him your spiritual advisor and had him preside over your marriage etc…, do you think that would be an issue?
Wright is no different than Hagee.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:10 ambackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:49 am
I believe that while whites have arguably made some gains when it comes to race, it is possible that racsism in the black community may have been ignored, until now.
HUH?
Whites have made some gains when it comes to race? What is that supposed to mean?
Does this mean whites can finally play in the Negro Leagues or use the Colored water fountains? Or does this mean that whites are finally letting a few token black people into the country club?
When I look at ongoing issues like voter caging in minority areas or prison sentencing disparities or predatory lending or the ethnic cleansing of New Orleans, I find it hard to see where any “gains” have been made in the area of racism. It’s become more subtle – it’s not lunch counters and dogs and water cannons anymore. But it’s still there, and people like Pastor Wright have PLENTY of reason to harbor some bitterness against the entrenched racism that still exists quite strongly in this country. There’s nothing racist or anti-American about expressing that bitterness.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:12 amIf you were in a white congregation and a white preacher spoke about the problem with America were due to black people, you would be expected to dissent, leave the church and repudiate the comments. It would not be acceptable to enable the preacher for 20 years and stand and appauld when he made the comments.
Wright’s comments are not acceptable. They’re racist. Promoting the double standard, sets the progressive movement back.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:13 ambedbugs at fox.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/arts/18arts-BEDBUGSATFOX_BRF.html?_r=2&sq=bugs%20fox&st=nyt&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&scp=1&adxnnlx=1205853376-5dj4EcrZXVwqnVzMqLso7A
yecchh.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:17 amHagee promotes killing people so Jesus will come back to earth.
Thats wholly messed up. Hagee not only wants Semites to persih he wants our troops to perish and about half of America, black and white and brown to perish in some kind oe Lahaye left behind scenario so he can float off [but he wont] to heaven.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:18 amgood_golly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:06 am
94. If you were a white candidate for President and attended David Duke’s meetings for 20 years, called him your spiritual advisor and had him preside over your marriage etc…, do you think that would be an issue?
Yes. And it’s completely irrelevant.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:19 amBTW Im not promoting Wrights comments, I am repudiating Wright and Hagee who basically think, pigmentally, the same.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:21 ambackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:13 am
If you were in a white congregation and a white preacher spoke about the problem with America were due to black people, you would be expected to dissent, leave the church and repudiate the comments. It would not be acceptable to enable the preacher for 20 years and stand and appauld when he made the comments.
Wright’s comments are not acceptable. They’re racist. Promoting the double standard, sets the progressive movement back.
It is a double standard. Get the hell over it.
You seem to be misunderstanding the definition of racism. Racism is an systematic and sustained discrimination against a minority race by a powerful majority. By definition, minorities can’t be racist. They don’t have the power to be racist. They may be predjudiced, sure. They may have a racial bias, fine. But they cannot be racist.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:21 amOn the other hand, John McCain has only just met John Hagee.
You just cannot equate the two. good_golly
Dont try and tell me what I can and cannot equate, the fact is both Hagee and Wright have done the same thing for twenty years. McCain knew that full well and your irrational logic and projecting doesnt change the fact.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:23 amRev Wright’s comments need no repudiation, you f_cking racist trolls:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080317/cm_huffpost/091774;_ylt=Aq_lH72YCCxOlaE1vskCJXms0NUE
March 18th, 2008 at 11:25 amstretch two three four good_golly.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:26 amFor those here that want to support Wright’s comments, consider the words of someone who knows Wright well, Barrack Obama:
Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.
Wright’s comments are not acceptable. You not would support someone that pointed to someone as a problem – just because of their race. If you are unable to see that, you’re ideological presuppositions are clouding your judgement.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:27 amMcCain, on the other hand, only recently met Hagee and has already repudiated his comments.
Seems to me Hagee hates catholic whiteys. BTW repudiation is repudiation and has no set time limits other than in your goofy argument.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:28 amOh yeah, the trolls ignore anything that doesn’t fall in line with their world view.
One of the founders of the religious right, Francis Schaeffer, said exactly the same things — and he was a HERO TO THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT.
Hypocrites.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:29 amA pal of mine found this, and I thought I’d post it just for goofy_golly – from those well-known anti-American preachers Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson:
This is from a “transcript” of an interview between Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson on September 13, 2001 on the 700 Club.
Jerry Falwell: “What we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact, God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.”
Pat Robertson: “Well, Jerry, that’s my feeling. I think we’ve just seen the antechamber to terror, we haven’t begun to see what they can do to the major population.”
Falwell: “The ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this. And I know I’ll hear from them for this, but throwing God…successfully with the help of the federal court system…throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad…I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America…I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen.”
Robertson: “I totally concur, and the problem is we’ve adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government, and so we’re responsible as a free society for what the top people do, and the top people, of course, is the court system.”
Ooooh! Those EVIL ANTI-AMERICAN NUTJOBS!!!!! They must be destroyed!!!
March 18th, 2008 at 11:30 amMcCain knew full well what Hagee has said before kissing his behind for votes. Just meeting him is a moot point gg. Lets not forget what McCain said of Falwell. Agents of intolerance.
And now he he sucks up to Hagee while repudiating him?
Only a fool would believe McCains BS.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:31 amIf Rev. Jeremiah Wright was a WHITE MAN – NONE of this would be going on.
He’s being pilloried BECAUSE HE’S BLACK by the disgusting racists of the lily-white reichwing.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:32 amTimely repudiation helps show that you really mean it. Long belated repudiation shows nothing more than political intent. good_golly
No, it only shows that in your mind. Now stop projecting your opinion as some sort of fact, it isnt.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:33 amThe progressives here that understand that Wright’s comments are racist and unacceptable need to speak out against it. If you let the comments of those here that defend Wright, it implies support.
You enable an environment of racism (or reverse racism) here at TP that will eventually make the community less credible and less relevant.
Evil happens when good people remain silent.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:33 amExactly, L Hussein Annie. See my link at #111.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:34 amMcCain kissing the arses of agents of intolerance [his words]
Tall about political intent.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:34 am*Talk
March 18th, 2008 at 11:35 ambackup & goon-golly are racists — they hold a double standard for white and black preachers.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:36 amgood_golly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:26 am
sorry gg, mcsame sought out hagee’s endorsement, stood with him on stage and embraced him. this will obviously cost mcsame the catholic vote and thus the election (with or without michele bachmann* on the ticket). equally obvious is your deliberate attempt to ignore mcsame’s bond with rod parsley.
girl you really know how to dissemble don’t you?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23448170/
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1393
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tViqufbk7I8
*good_golly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:38 amMarch 17th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Soon you may be writing about Vice Presidential Candidate, Michele Bachman.
#67 Zooey:
katy, if you find a link or the text of the speech, can you drop it by the Zoo? I’m going to be gone all day.
Here ya go.
Cheers,
March 18th, 2008 at 11:42 amZooey Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:36 am
backup & goon-golly are racists — they hold a double standard for white and black preachers.
I’m listening, please elaborate.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:43 amThis Wright = Obama nonsense seems vaguely familiar. Where might I have heard something similar before? Oh, yeah, Saddam = Al Qaeda and “if you’re not with us you’re against us”, that’s where.
UTTER NONSENSE
March 18th, 2008 at 11:43 amWhile the Bear /Stearns employees learn the lesson that its a bad idea to invest heavily in your own company (despite significant pressure from the company to do so).
The “average joe” saving for retirement will also find that the lower interest rates will decrease their earnings towards retirement. And that is in the “best case” scenario where the fed bailout works.
More likely is that the govt will be on the hook for various losses of B&S which will contribute to Georgie’s debt. As well as many, many more Enrons coming home to roost.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:45 ambackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
so why haven’t you spoken out against mccsame, hagee, parsley, et al.?
have you failed to notice that the gop has been in the grip of a squadron of right wing racist ministers for over the last thirty years? why have you remained silent about that? why the double standard? why are you calling yourself “backup” instead of “throwup”?
the progressive movement needs truth and honesty, if you refused to bring these qualities to the table then get out now. go join gg. he’s alone and he could use a friend.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am#97 Good_Golly:
If you were a white candidate for President and attended David Duke’s meetings for 20 years, called him your spiritual advisor and had him preside over your marriage etc…, do you think that would be an issue?
Let me phrase it somewhat different: “If the Republican Party nominated David Duke for governor of a state, would you think the Republican Party is chock-full of racists azos?”
Now git.
Cheers,
March 18th, 2008 at 11:49 amI know the hate Reverend Wright feels because that’s how people like Gigi make me feel. Gigi thinks he can dictate what Obama thinks and feels and what we should feel about Obama. The people who don’t haven’t experienced their own anger with what this country has become would never vote for Obama anyway. And I’ll be damned if I’ll let so called news pundits and trolls like Gigi tell me what I should feel about this or any other issue.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:49 ambackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
The progressives here that understand that Wright’s comments are racist and unacceptable need to speak out against it. If you let the comments of those here that defend Wright, it implies support.
Well, I can’t let that implication stand. I’d like to state for the record that I agree with much of what Rev. Wright said and see nothing in any transcript I’ve read so far that needs to be “repudiated.” They are not racist – anything but. They’re not “unacceptable” – they’re the kind of criticism America doesn’t like to hear, but they’re far from “unacceptable.”
March 18th, 2008 at 11:49 amRacism:
Prejudice or discrimination based on an individual’s race; can be expressed individually or through institutional policies or practices. …
Wright intimates that black people are repressed by rich, white people. Not by rich people, but by rich, white people.
There aren’t rich white people that support civil rights and equality? Wright seems to be painting with a pretty broad brush. Also, his comments seem strange in the context of his support of Obama who is a black man that has a majority of white support.
I would not condon a white preacher preaching to me that problems we face can be blamed on a group of people, just because of their skin color. It’s a racist view.
I also share Obama’s sentiments, that Wright’s comments are unacceptable.
Join me and let’s keep the progress going.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:51 amFWIW, Glenn Greenwald has a good post on the Wright/Hagee issue.
Cheers,
March 18th, 2008 at 11:52 amWell, well, well, gg finally did something positive. I read Obama’s speech at (shudder) Drudge and it brought tears to my eyes.
I do hope to see that speech coming from his lips in full on all the stations that have been railing this issue.
As for ThinkFast…McConnell believes in an urban legend as truth. Swell. And what was his title again? Oh, right, Director of National Intelligence. If that doesn’t sum up in full how deeply in trouble our country is, nothing does. Heck of a job, there Director of National Intelligence McConnell, heck of a job.
And I wonder what those foreign governments are planning on doing to fix our mess. Thoughts?
March 18th, 2008 at 11:56 amMs Joanne.
I haven’t read the text yet, but I’m curious to your take on his message.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:59 ambackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:51 am
uh huh… nothing about hagee, parsley, falwell, robertson, copeland, haggard…
“Evil happens when good people remain silent.”
you wrote that.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:59 ambackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Wright intimates that black people are repressed by rich, white people. Not by rich people, but by rich, white people.
They aren’t?
March 18th, 2008 at 11:59 amRighties are deeply closeted these days (in oh so many ways) but mostly about their racism. They’ve discovered lots of ways to camouflage it, but at the end of the day they know that “those people” are why “we have so many problems in our cities”.
p.s. big thank you to Mr. Golly, for peppering the thread with precious and prescient parsimony. where would we be without that beacon of shortbus wit and wisdom?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:01 pmJohn McCain’s radical religious supporters advocate the violent overthrow of our own government.
John McCain’s radical religious supporters scare me way more than Obama’s Minister does.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:03 pmObviously gigi doesn’t know the struggle a person of color goes through on a daily basis in this country.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pmI got to out you CaptanMantastic…..
Your remarks are lost here. Most of us who you define as extremists to the left but who are actually just progressives basically agree with Wright. He makes valid points about real life for blacks in America. You don’t want to see that so you are doing what republicans always do……blame the victom.
The fact that you try to play the racism card is really just sad. It may work on some who are basically racist white people anyway but it won’t play with intelligent people.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pmjoe cantwell. I’ve got statements at TP against Haggard, Hagee, Robertson, and others who share similar sentiment. I’ll find them for you if you want, but I’ll expect concession if you want me to find them.
Hate speech is hate speech.
I oppose republican homophobic positions on gay marriage and I’m an agnostic that many times disagrees with Christian sentiments and bigotry.
Want me to find the comments?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pmMs_Joanne, backup is a concern troll that wants to be your friend. He’s just trying to protect progressives from themselves. Well, isn’t that special.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Yes, I’d like to see those posts with a link so we can all go and see what you have previously exposed and disagreed with.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:09 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
are you captainmantastic?
oh my that is sad…
“Evil happens when good people remain silent.”
and evil happens when bad people lie.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:09 pmTstatguy Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
backup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
does he have to concede too?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:10 pm>Wright’s comments are
>not acceptable. They’re racist.
Right.. saying the white man has a long history of
March 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pmscrewing over darker colored people is obviously untrue and racist. The United States never funded central american death squads or other groups who engage in terrorist attacks against civilians. The united states is uniquely good and civilized in the world. Uh huh. Speaking as a totally caucasian person, I can say that Wrights statements, while politically unpopular, are more true than any screwball religous nut screaming about how we need to bomb countries purely for the purpose of kickstarting armageddon.
It seems that it’s ok for McCain to ask for and to receive the endorsement of the hate spewer Hagee, and of course, let us not forget all of those $$ that he, McCain and Hagee, will be the benefactors of. It also seems that if money is involved and it’s a republican, it’s always ok….the party of greed and power. If the buck$ are there, it matters not that they spew hate and ignorance……nothing to see here, move along now. The talking heads just keep bobbing along in agreement, offering their usual nothingness.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pmOnly that I’m not hypocritical in my position against Wright as he suggests in his post.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pmdon’t bother backup, nobody is conceding anything to you. One lesson we all should have learned from Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans is that the white evangelicals consider everybody who isn’t a white elitist disposable. After all Bushco let old white people die just as readily as poor blacks in Louisiana. And these evangelicals blamed everything from abortion to homosexuality to the victims who were too dumb to leave the area even though they had no money or way to leave.
When I see how easy it is for people like you and Gigi to make me hateful I can understand why Reverend Wright, an EX MARINE, might at times get irritated enough to say things that Obama didn’t agree with and that he probably regretted saying himself later on.
No I’d appreciate it if you’d take your concern and shove it.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pmI just want him to come through: put up or shut up.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pmMcConnell – Intelligence Director – unaware of Snopes.com.
only in America.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:13 pmbackup Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
It says ‘all men’ not ‘all straight men’.
Discrimination against gays and lesbians is as archaic as discrimination against blacks or women. Time to get past it.
This was from the post where McCain was condoning Hagee.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
still searching?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pm> Gov. Paterson (D) admits to
> sex with other woman for years.
A politician committing adultery? Gosh GoobGolly, whats next, a bulletin that bears sh1t in the woods? You truly think this is something unique to one party? its not, its human nature,and the only ones trying to claim they are above it is YOUR people….many of whom are in the closet and particpants in alot more deviant acts that simple adultery. I suppose if this were a republican sex scandal it would read ” Senator Joe Blow (R) denies being gay after being caught codfishing in the urinal at Sizzler Steakhouse”
March 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
that’s it?
how many posts have you had here today alone against rev. wright?
i got tired counting.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:15 pmUnder what topic can we find this quote? It would help if you pointed to it for us and not spoon feed us.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:16 pm“Not since September 1992, two months before President George H.W. Bush lost re-election, have so many said the economy was in such bad shape.”
And all it took was another Bush (congratulations, American Idiots) to bring it to the same lowly condition again.
My dog would’ve known better than to vote for another Bush. WTF were America’s dim bulbs thinking??????
March 18th, 2008 at 12:17 pmFred Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
backup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am The progressives here that understand that Wright’s comments are racist and unacceptable need to speak out against it. If you let the comments of those here that defend Wright, it implies support.
I got to out you CaptanMantastic…..
Your remarks are lost here. Most of us who you define as extremists to the left but who are actually just progressives basically agree with Wright. He makes valid points about real life for blacks in America. You don’t want to see that so you are doing what republicans always do……blame the victom.
The fact that you try to play the racism card is really just sad. It may work on some who are basically racist white people anyway but it won’t play with intelligent people.
backup, this demands response or concession!
March 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmbackup are you seriously trying to sell the “Wright is a racist” line?
Are you seriously trying to say that racism agains blacks does not still exist in America?
Are you seriously trying to compare the plight of blacks in South Central La and other similar areas around our glorious country that are maintained by white slumlords to some kind of opression of the white man in America by the likes of Wright?
Please show me an example of racism where a white man has been oppressed by a black man.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
shhh…
backup’s busy searching!
March 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pmYes he is racist, and no, saying he is a racist doesn’t mean that racism against blacks don’t exist – that’s called a strawman
I never said that racism against blacks doesn’t exist – it does.
I would make the point that we are more comfortable pointing out and repudiating white racism then we are with exposing black racism. Any racism is bad. One day we will all understand the imperative that we denounce it all, indiscriminantly.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:30 pmzuch Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:42 am
#67 Zooey:
katy, if you find a link or the text of the speech, can you drop it by the Zoo? I’m going to be gone all day.
Here ya go.
Cheers,
thanks for that, zuch!
zooey, i left on some errands as soon as i posted my last, and before i read yours…
back in time to hear edschultz commentary about the speech… can’t wait to listen to it…
i see that it’s been posted at http://www.crooksandliars.com/ also…
listen and learn, folks…
March 18th, 2008 at 12:33 pmbackup Says:
February 23rd, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — February 23, 2008 @ 2:01 pm
Hey, ralph. How’s it going? I tried to post this as captain mantastic, but I’ve been banned.
hey bu i found this… so you are captain mantastic. what happened, someone steal your cape?
how’s the search going?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:34 pmkaty Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
brilliant!
March 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I’m still waiting for the info under what topic this was posted on 3/12/08 @ 3:26.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pmOh, backup…? Here are some names for you:
Ted Haggard
Pat Robertson
Tim LaHay
James Dobson
Rod Parsley
John Hagee
Jerry Falwell
Oral Roberts
Bob Jones
Fred Phelps
That ought to get you started. Find me some RIGHT-WING outrage against those inflammatory (white) evangelicals, would you?
BTW, the above listed men are ALL white and supporters of REPUBLICANS.
Any other questions…?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pmjust catching up on the reading here…
hussein toasterhead Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:12 am
[...]
There’s nothing racist or anti-American about expressing that bitterness.
excellent! i am going to copy/paste that one somewhere – with your permission, of course… sums up my thoughts exactly…
.
joe cantwell Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am
[...]
the progressive movement needs truth and honesty, if you refused to bring these qualities to the table then get out now. …
a great point, substantive too…
March 18th, 2008 at 12:40 pm.
Wow! I’ve been gone for a few days, and , a new TP.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:40 pmSame troll $hit, tho.
Listen, I have no idea what Obama’s pastor has preached. It is irrelevant. I have never based my vote on a candidate’s preacher. I base my votes on issues that are relevant to myself, my family, and my country. Anyone who is on the fence about Obama, who suddenly decides not to vote for him because of his preacher, probably should stay away from the voting booth, as more than likely he/she is the person randomly choosing, just to skew the polls.
As for the race issue, I challenge the nay sayers here to research Jack Johnson, and Joe Louis, and see how America treated these superb athletes. Hell, just research the PGA and attitude/policies towards minorities. This should give you an idea about “corporate white America”.
Let’s face it, the “black” family has been held “down” for centuries, and unfortunately, continues to be so. I probably wouldn’t agree with everything the pastor said, but, in all honesty, the typical “black” family does have a right to feel angry. It’s how they choose to channel that anger that’s important.
Until minorities have the same equal opportunity as the wealthy, there will always be resentment. PERIOD!
RHF – bfd. seriously.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pmHey, refresh my memory.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pmWeren’t there two “preachers” who blamed 9/11 on the liberals, and acceptance of “homosexuality”?
Where was the outrage?
Was there a massive protest from their congregation?
Did many a republican leave that denomination?
DRxJ Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Well said. I agree.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
That said nothing, and my point stands. What the Rev. said was just as racist if not more so, as it effectively implies that the nation (all white people) are responsible for their individual experiences of racism. Sorry, but his comments, his beliefs, his church, is racism. It’s inexcusable and even Obama condemned them, what’s your and Zooey’s problem with reality on this issue?
When someone refers to “white people” in this context, it doesn’t refer to the hundreds of thousands of white people who marched with Dr. King. It refers to a system, and to the people who benefit from and help perpetuate that system. Racism is not a comment or an epithet – it’s a system of systematic oppression. That’s what the reverend is speaking about. Not every single individual white person, but the collective historical oppressor.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pmL. Hussein Annie Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
just the tip of the ice berg annie!
btw “backup” likes to be called “captain mantastic”. why i don’t know and he won’t say.
and he may not be around for awhile. he’s searching for the myriad resounding condemnations he posted here at tp about the people you just listed.
i wonder if they will be equal in temper and number to the ones he posted here today regarding rev. wright…?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pmbackup Says:
Join me and let’s keep the progress going.
L O – F’N – L …
March 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pm.
I’m an agnostic. I oppose the right wing intolerance of homosexuals. I oppose Christain homophobia and bigotry. I have commented against the hypocrisy of Ted Haggard for preaching against homosexuality on Sunday after soliciting prostitues on Saturday. I don’t support McCain’s association with Hagee. I opposed the idea of a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage. I think Pat Robertson is ridulous. He somehow thinks it’s important that he can squat 1000 lbs and he thinks God is telling him who will be the next president in his sleep. I have commented in the past that the republican party has to be alot more to include blacks.
I believe that probably the worst things that have happened throughout recorded human history can be attributed to organized religion. And it makes me cringe when President Bush links American policy to God.
I will try to find some of those comments, but it will take some time, because, as Fred knows, I’ve made no secret of posting as CaptainMantastic. I was banned from the site and most of my previous posts have been exponged (deleted).
But, I’ll work on it.
Intolerance should be resisted, from whereever it originates.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pmWhile I disagree with republicans hate facts on this particular issue I would submit that this is the direct result of party infighting on this forum. We should be resolving this Obama/Clinton contest in private. Not before the prying eyes of the republicans who will use it against us.
It reminds me of two different unions having a juristictional dispute on a job. In other words a particular project on the job is in dispute over who it belongs to…say pipefitters or boilermakers.
What happens here is akin to the two crafts going to the project managers office and arguing their points before the contractor…..the opponent of both unions. It winds up making them both look bad and weakens them both.
What they should be doing is resolving the dispute in one of thier own offices and going to the contractor with the results and informing them of who will be doing that particular job.
just my thoughts on the thread direction this morning.
ps. I don’t disagree with RHF on many things….
March 18th, 2008 at 1:01 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Actually it does, in the same way that if a white person was referring negatively to n* people, they wouldn’t be referring to all of the good black people – right? Get it now?
No. In the coded language of race in America, terms such as “white people” and “black people” can have very different meanings, depending on the context and who’s doing the talking.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:03 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
woa, fred busted you!
then you admitted you were “captain mantastic”.
why the duplicity?
*
March 18th, 2008 at 1:07 pmI wouldn’t try to distance myself as CaptainMantastic.
Again, my original posts are gone. But, before they were deleted, Jeremy in Denver did me a favor.
People here were accussing me of rightwing intolerance.
I challenged anyone to go back and find an insult, profanity or threat that I had posted.
Jeremy searched back 8 months (hundreds of posts) and found this:
Okay, in hundreds of posts, the worst he could find, is me challenging Democrats to ‘get some balls’. I am passionate about the free exchange of ideas and I could have said it better. But, if that’s the worst there is, how intolerant is that? Would others here survive the scrutiny?
March 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pmgood_golly Says:
_________________
Florida voters remain disenfranchised by DNC. Thank you Mr. Dean.
It’s not Dean’s fault Floridians can’t follow instructions. They agreed to the rules, then tried to change them later. Their fault. period. you can whine all you want, it’s the perogative of all republicans and trolls, but your whining doesn’t change the facts in the reality based community. And please ask your husband to stop calling me, his necrophilia fantasies are creeping me out.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pmI wonder which word the neoturds actually use to describe Obama when behind closed doors.
HYPOCRITES AND HATERS – always welcome in the GOP.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:18 pmmantastic is just a tired old concern troll. that’s all.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
how about some concession?
so we can keep the progress going.
btw, who are you coming back as tomorrow?
March 18th, 2008 at 1:22 pmStill Captain, folks deserve to know who you are from the past….it is a reasonable assumption…
I suggest you add CaptainMantastic to your signature in each post. You can’t run from past…..we all make mistakes. People will forgive you if you change your behavior.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:26 pmbtw, who are you coming back as tomorrow?
backup, unless those here feel it’s more important to silence someone who disagrees with them, than to have an honest discussion.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:26 pmI suggest you add CaptainMantastic to your signature in each post. You can’t run from past…..we all make mistakes. People will forgive you if you change your behavior.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
If anybody is interested in Obama’s speech today about Jeremiah Wright, here’s a link to the transcript:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23690567/
March 18th, 2008 at 1:36 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
btw, who are you coming back as tomorrow?
backup, unless those here feel it’s more important to silence someone who disagrees with them, than to have an honest discussion.
let’s see rev. wright doesn’t agree with you and you wanted him silenced. but if he had agreed with you, then he could go on speaking.
is that your idea of an honest discussion, backup/captain mantastic?
duplicity.
du·plic·i·ty
March 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pmPronunciation:
\du?-?pli-s?-t? also dyu?-\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural du·plic·i·ties
Etymology:
Middle English duplicite, from Middle French, from Late Latin duplicitat-, duplicitas, from Latin duplex
Date:
15th century
1: contradictory doubleness of thought, speech, or action; especially : the belying of one’s true intentions by deceptive words or action
2: the quality or state of being double or twofold
3: the technically incorrect use of two or more distinct items (as claims, charges, or defenses) in a single legal action
One of my favorite portions of Obama’s speech:
Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution – a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.
And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part – through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk – to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.</strong>
March 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
No, it’s not irrelevant, as this preacher has claimed that white people engineered AIDS to kill blacks, and Obama choosing this person as his spiritual guide shows bad judgment. PERIOD!
—————————————
Ah, I see you’re a person who will vote for a candidate based on the opinions of their “spiritual guide”.
I suppose the bigoted and hateful remarks put forth by Rod Parsley (McCain’s spiritual guide) and Hagee (whose endorsement McCain sought and got) are more to your taste?
I recommend you listen to Obama’s response to this entire kerfluffle instead of basing your opinion on a few video snippets of cherry-picked remarks over several years’ worth of sermons from this pastor.
Transcript of Obama speech:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23690567/
March 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pmAnd McCain has said he is proud of his association with Rev. Hagee (a hate minister) he embraced Rev. Falwell, another homophobic hatefilled preacher, and he is pleased to have Rev. Parsley in his camp A preacher who believes the purpose of christianity and the USofA is to kill Islam.
Don’t forget Billy Graham and his anti-semitic remarks, his son Franklin’s anti-Islamic remarks.
Christian preachers may lead some folks on the path to being better people, but they themselves are no better than the rest of us — and they show us that every day.
Give me an agnostic or an atheist who simply follows the golden rule and I will be satisfied.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pmmissmolly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
PatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
This is a phony issue meant to derail Obama’s campaign.
——————————————
Amen. I can’t remember any other time when the views of a candidate’s clergyman was made such an issue, although the 1960 accusations that electing Kennedy “would put the Pope in the White House” came closest.
I have no idea who would actually believe the cherry-picked comments of Jeremiah Wright “prove” that Obama hates white people — except bigots who won’t be voting for Obama anyway.
What I see it as doing is to prove Obama’s overall bad judgment. This ISN’T a simple case of “well, I missed a sermon or two” but a case of KNOWING someone for TWO DECADES. Most people DO NOT consider someone with such obviously bigoted values as “close personal friends” for so long. Family members? Sure you will but no one chooses the family they’re born into. For MOST OF US, if we learn that our minister has values CLEARLY out of line with our own would dissociate from the person, if not simply find ANOTHER congregation. Hell, you’ve got thousands, if not millions, of Episcopal Church members who are LEAVING the mainstream US Episcopal Church in favor of African Anglican Churches over the mere issues of ordaining women and accepting gays in the Church. These issues have actually split individual congregations, but we’re supposed to blindly accept that Barack Obama, the Saint of Political Change, would keep a man with such atrocious views as a “close personal friend” and “spiritual advisor”? (Let’s not forget how roundly Dubya was criticized by progressives over his judgment about Putin’s soul. That was a stupid comment made after a meeting that lasted mere hours. Obama’s had TWO DECADES to get to know Wright.)
March 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pmAnd, just to remind you, this is Obama’s SECOND major religiously connected error in judgment to be made public. And, like the Wright issue, Obama’s using the “what he says doesn’t reflect my values” horse hockey cover when it simply shows to me that Obama has very poor judgment when it comes to spiritual advisors and “tourmates”. (Also, there’s the fact that he–the man who claims that he’s always been against the war–didn’t seek out a Senate mentor who was more in line with his own values; instead, he was assigned Lieberman, a man for whom he actively campaigned in the 2006 Connecticut primary.)
Joe, That’s not my sentiment. Here’s what I said at TP three days ago:
March 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Big post…
republicans hate facts Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
ROTFL! Who cares about the affairs people have, and what’s your complaint against Spitzer, that he actually upheld his job and prosecuted prostitution rings? The prostitution ring he hired wasn’t in New York, or did you miss that part? And most of us don’t care who he slept with, or if he paid for it, that’s what you moralizing, toe tapping, hypocrites worry about while you’re hiring more prostitutes during the GOP conventions than the local cities can supply!! ROTFL!!
———-
Let me state that Spitzer does fall under that definition of ’saying one thing and doing another.’ If he’s busy prosecuting prostitution and simultaneously hiring prostitutes, then IMO, the guy needs to resign (which he did) and be prosecuted himself (which I hope he is).
—————————
backup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I never said that racism against blacks doesn’t exist – it does.
I would make the point that we are more comfortable pointing out and repudiating white racism then we are with exposing black racism. Any racism is bad. One day we will all understand the imperative that we denounce it all, indiscriminantly.
———–
I’d also like to say here that what I think happened here was Wight lost his temmper. I get the gist of this sermon to mean that he’d had enough of being oppressed by _rich white people_, but said it in such a way that people with anti-black racist agendas could easily take it and read it as rich _white people_. Could this have been said better? Very likely. Am I only getting soundbytes from it? Hell yeah. I’d have to read the entire 20+ year history of this man’s sermons before I’ll render a judgement, and given that today’s society is all about the 5 second soundbite and the 10 word soundbyte? Pardon me if I don’t get incensed at two sermons over a 20 year record.
==============
backup Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
It says ‘all men’ not ‘all straight men’.
Discrimination against gays and lesbians is as archaic as discrimination against blacks or women. Time to get past it.
This was from the post where McCain was condoning Hagee.
Here’s a hint. They want links. You can give that easily. For instance:
This is today’s comment from you.
This is an inane comment from good_golly on the top thread as I write this post.
How did I do that? Right click on the blue linked date and time under your name, choose ‘copy link’, then type (Less_Than_Sign)a href=”(Paste the link here)”(Greater_Than_Sign)(Your Text)(Less_Than_Sign)/a(Greater_Than_Sign), where you paste the link without parenthesis between the doublequotes and type one or more words between the ‘‘ tag and the ‘‘ tag.
If you need more instruction on how to do this, consult any guide on HTML hyperlinking.
Pardon me, but I’m sensing a bit of ‘concern troll’ here with all of this. That concern troll mentality will go away if you follow those instructions above and load up lots of posts that suggests that you oppose inflamatory speech from everyone.
And for the record, again, I think this was a single pair of sermons that Wight lost his cool on and said something he shouldn’t have. I do agree with him that American Society is dominated by rich white people, who take advantage of poor people of all races (white, black, asian, hispanic, etc.) in order to further their own goals. Wight’s apparent mistake was not clarifying that ‘rich white people’ emphasized this particular subgroup and that not all white people of wealth stood against blacks and other races.
I’m still not convinced that this is anything more than a right-wing talking point attempt to smear Obama, filled up with soundbites taken out of context of 20 years of this man’s sermons, with an extra ‘guilt by association’ for good measure.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pmMany people on the right have been making most of what Wright has said, up (maybe even unintentionally). Just like this morning on Morning Joe, they were talking about and twisting it as if Wright said that the Government was involved in 9/11. While that fact may or may not actually be true, it is considered a politically toxic viewpoint to hold, but the catch is that he never even said anything close to that.
He said that we are now experiencing (with 9/11) the pain that the rest of the world feels when we attack, or support attacks against them… That’s all he said. What’s wrong with that sentiment?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
why are you complaining? obama condemned wright’s sermon, you got your censorship.
WHERE IS YOUR RIGHTOUS ANGER ABOUT MCCSAME AND HAGEE AND PARSLEY?
AND MCCSAME IS ALREADY THE CANDIDATE OF HIS PARTY!
why no honest disscussion there?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pmJ Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
He said that we are now experiencing (with 9/11) the pain that the rest of the world feels when we attack, or support attacks against them… That’s all he said. What’s wrong with that sentiment?
Americans don’t like hearing that their government does bad things. We’d much rather stick our fingers in our ears and yell “LALALALALA I’M NOT LISTENING I CAN’T HEAR YOU LALALALA”
March 18th, 2008 at 2:13 pmwhy are you complaining? obama condemned wright’s sermon, you got your censorship.
Joe, I’m okay with Obama’s response. But, if you scroll back through this thread, there are plenty of comments supporting Wright’s sentiment. All of it.
I don’t think that’s really were the country should go.
Do you agree with those that support Wright’s most divisive comments? There are plenty here that do.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:14 pmI would also submit that the churches across America have used the pulpit for political purposes……endorsing and fundraising for republicans. Yet the only church that is called to task for this is one that spoke positively about a democrat.
I would also submit that by your standards backup that every catholic in America is as guilty as Wright but for a different and more heinous crime…..child molestation and enablement…….the difference is that church members definately knew about this and did nothing…..unforgivable.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:15 pmYet the only church that is called to task for this is one that spoke positively about a democrat.
There have been dozens of posts at TP highlighting the bigotry of Christian leaders. The hypocrisy of Christian leaders embroiled in sex scandals. And there association with republicans.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:19 pmCap, we have tried the hate thing with your party carrying the flag…..Wright is a direct result of your methodology…..
Hate brings on hate….it is a chain reaction. You can deny the actions of the Black panthers too but you can’t deny that they came into existance because of actions by white people in America…..same rule applies….time to let this go.
If you cannot forgive this persons anger(Wright) when it was caused by policies set in motion by white people against blacks (you said you cannot deny that racism exists in America) then how do you ever think they can forgive the white people for the vile actions against blacks for the last 300 years? Please answer that.
It is time for the white people in this country to be the bigger man and admit thier own mistakes instead of trying to kill a biting dog that you have been kicking for 300 years.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:25 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Yet the only church that is called to task for this is one that spoke positively about a democrat.
There have been dozens of posts at TP highlighting the bigotry of Christian leaders. The hypocrisy of Christian leaders embroiled in sex scandals. And there association with republicans.
————————
His comment may be that there’s no main-stream press about Republican supporting churches doing wrong. I’m not sure that’s 100% true, but there sure was rapid press on this Wight thing.
Though I have to ask this question: What must Obama do to meet the measure of absolution of his association with this church in your eyes? Please, tell us all.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pmHillary and Bill have shown a great degree of arrogance on the campaign trail. By that measure, they would have no problem displaying the same arrogance if back in office. Far better it would be than a McCain tenure, but we’d be missing out on Barack Obama’s interpersonal skills to get things done for this country.
I haven’t done the math. Is there anyway that Hillary could retake the lead, in terms of delegates, even if she took a 100% proportion of them in the remaining states?
Could anybody please fill that void?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:29 pmTP is not CBS, etc. doen’t count because only really interested people see it here…..not the masses that are exposed day after day to every democratic scandal while repulbican scandals are swept under the rug..
Spitzer is a prime example….over a week of main stream exposure……not one word about his investigations into banking improprioties that undoubtedly initiated the downfall of Spitzer….sorry….your point is lost on me.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:30 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Do you agree with those that support Wright’s most divisive comments? There are plenty here that do.
yes, there are many opinions about wright’s sermons here.
“unless [you] feel it’s more important to silence someone who disagrees with them, than to have an honest discussion.”
sound familiar?
another opinion:
http://www.theroot.com/id/45301
and my concern (and apparently not yours) is with the presumptive republican candidate’s “spiritual advisors”. but, of course, that’s not very important to you.
do you support mccaine’s divisive candidacy for president?
*
March 18th, 2008 at 2:31 pmMcWars Says:
I haven’t done the math. Is there anyway that Hillary could retake the lead, in terms of delegates, even if she took a 100% proportion of them in the remaining states?
Could anybody please fill that void?
She is not yet mathematically eliminated. She cannot win the pledged delegate count unless she does indeed win close to every remaining vote – obviously, not going to happen.
She can still win the nomination if the Super Delegates break overwhelmingly for her, going against the popular vote of their own party. That too is a tough scenario to posit, but it at least exists in the realm of possibility.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:36 pmMcWars,
This link
http://www.slate.com/features/delegatecounter/
is useful for predicting outcomes based on future votes. But in the end, neither can win without at least SOME support from the Supers – Hillary needs much more, having lost the advantage among the Pledged.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:41 pmJosephW Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
———————————–
Your comments have been noted. You obviously believe that a candidate’s spiritual mentor carries far more weight than that same candidate’s position on the issues. And you also believe that a few cherry-picked negative comments trump anything positive (I would be willing to bet that your entire assessment of Jeremiah Wright rests on the snippets you’ve seen on YouTube and that you haven’t bothered to research anything else the man has said or stood for).
Fine — since this is your barometer, go for it. Cast your vote for the person with the least offensive spiritual mentor. And since that would probably be Hillary (unless you don’t consider the bigoted and hate-filled comments from McCain’s spiritual advisers Hagee and Parsley offensive), I assume you will vote for her.
But what will you do if she doesn’t get the nomination?
Of course, I could be wrong. Instead of sincerely placing an emphasis on a candidate’s pastor, you could just hate Obama and are looking for a reason to justify that hatred.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:51 pmKeltoi,
Thanks very much for your response. Very informative. The delegate counter is a neat find!
It’s official: Hillary cannot win unless superdelegates subvert the will of the people!
March 18th, 2008 at 2:51 pmMcWars Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
It’s official: Hillary cannot win unless superdelegates subvert the will of the people!
Yep. Which is why this thing with Wright is so troubling – I have been very depressed the last few days because it will give the Clintons the argument they need to pitch to the Supers – this guy is too toxic, too radical, too unvetted, if you choose him you hand the election to McCain.
I have printed Obama’s speech today – I haven’t seen it delivered yet, but he rarely disappoints on style. It has a chance at becoming an American classic, and will if he winds up winning.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:59 pmA U.N.-supported report released yesterday conducted by the World Glacier Monitoring Service at the University of Zurich has found that “most of the world’s mountain glaciers, many of which feed major rivers and water supplies, are shrinking at an accelerating pace as the climate warms
The cons and trolls know that most of the blue states are on the borders so they’ll gladly sacrifice NY, MA, CA, OR etc. They’re willing to let FL go — collateral damage — but what they don’t realize is that the gays will just move inland and destroy the sanctity of marriage in OK and OH. — Bobwurst
**********************************************************
The alleged destruction of the sanctity of marriage will be the very least of their worries at that point, believe me. One factor which I suspect leads to their rejection of global warming is the unwillingness to consider the very great possibility that should the water levels rise and the coastlines are flooded, that will leave much less land available to produce food and/or house people. Those who are driven further inland by flooding will at the very least need housing and food, not to mention jobs and medical care — and if the vocal opposition to Katrina refugees and illegal immigration over the last couple of years is anything to go on, the threat of having to share resources such as jobs and medical care with interlopers (albeit fellow citizens) is something that red-staters will probably consider a far greater and more dangerous threat.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:00 pmYou are the bigot. White people have kicked the black dog for 300 years and wonder why it growls….
White people(and I am white)as a group have kept the hate going against blacks for 300 years….they fuss at you and you cry like a little girl.
I think the black race in this country under the guidence of amazing leaders like Martin Luther King and other advocates of peaceful dissent have shown amazing restraint against the violence and disregard for their well being metted out to them by whites in America for so very long…..
grow up and try to be a productive, contributing member of society for a change.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:07 pmWright and Farrakhan are quite different from Martin Luther King.
Obama is a progressive and he understands the problems with Wright’s statements.
Do you disagree with Obama?
March 18th, 2008 at 3:14 pmMore on delegate counting and polling
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-03-17-poll_N.htm
Check out the poll data on the left handside in detail.
This is the craziest election of my life, bar none.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:16 pmKeltoi,
As you know, a reasonable candidate shouldn’t even look to taking that defense. Even some unreasonable candidates wouldn’t look to do it (McCain). But you’re right, I wouldn’t rule out the Clintons looking to this as a new defense. It’s a fine line to walk, though, with Bill’s remarks during S.C. etc.
There’s a chance superdelegates may flock, or flock back to Clinton because of Obama’s “evil” minister, but the numbers of the people don’t lie: Obama has the democratic nomination.
And while his ministers words may hit close to home, we have to think about the ways we become frustrated in our own lives if we’re not making progress, when we don’t have what we need to do so. I would have stated it with less intimidation, but I tend to agree with the minister. Obama was right to condemn the intimidating tone and the way his comments may have painted with wide strokes.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:17 pmI think Obama is sensibly addressing people like you who would use this as a wedge issue….he is merely distancing himself from a few hateful remarks made by a man who has spoken in public almost every day for 20+ years…..do you think you are so perfect as to never have said something that you might believe down deep but should have kept to yourself or have expressed more appropriatly?
March 18th, 2008 at 3:22 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
last chance backup*
do you support the divisive republican candidacy of john mccain?
*i thought you agreed with fred to identify yourself as “captain mantastic” in all your future posts?
_
March 18th, 2008 at 3:22 pmMcWars Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Keltoi,
>>As you know, a reasonable candidate shouldn’t even look to taking that defense. Even some unreasonable candidates wouldn’t look to do it (McCain).
That is interesting….McCain is in Iraq, I haven’t heard if he has been asked about this, but I can see him saying it was out of bounds; I certainly hope he would.
>>But you’re right, I wouldn’t rule out the Clintons looking to this as a new defense. It’s a fine line to walk, though, with Bill’s remarks during S.C. etc.
Well, that is truly the rub, my McFriend. Those words need not be spoken publicly. They will be said in the smoke filled rooms that are the natural habitat of Party indiders/Super Delegates. There will be no backlash because it won’t come out.
>>There’s a chance superdelegates may flock, or flock back to Clinton because of Obama’s “evil” minister, but the numbers of the people don’t lie: Obama has the democratic nomination.
Which is precisely why the Clintons MUST have the Supers. They know that quite well. They haven’t quit the race yet; the only way they win is if they overturn the popular vote; ergo, they must have a plan to do exactly that. And this Wright thing was just the poison pill they needed, but I think Obama may have given himself an anditidote with today’s speech…I am still weighing it, can’t wait to see what the polls do in the next few days.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:35 pmI believe McCain should distance himself from figures like Hagee and not seek their endorsement.
And, I think what I’m going to try to do is reference my first post of the thread with a reference to CaptainMantastic.
I sure you would understand that every post would become cumbersome.
I think it’s funny that I posted for a year as CaptainMantastic. I was banned. In my first comment under the new name ‘backup’ I referenced how I was banned as CaptainMantastic.
And that somehow translates to me running from the name CaptainMantastic? I guess you believe what you want to believe.
Now, how ’bout you. Are you willing to repudiate Wright’s comments, like Obama has? Or is your silence an endorsement of the comments?
March 18th, 2008 at 3:47 pmbackup Says:
And, I think what I’m going to try to do is reference my first post of the thread with a reference to CaptainMantastic.
Could you re-register as Capt.Mantastic, CapnMantastic, ManCapTastic or some such? I assume “backup” was just that, a back up?
March 18th, 2008 at 3:52 pmCould you re-register as Capt.Mantastic, CapnMantastic, ManCapTastic or some such? I assume “backup” was just that, a back up?
Might be the answer. I’ll consider it.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:54 pmDirector of National Intelligence Mike McConnell recently delivered a speech that contained a story about an historical radio conversation at sea. “This is true. It’s an actual recording,” McConnell said. In fact, McConnell’s story was “untrue. False. Urban naval legend. Never happened.
Is everyone wound up so tight that they don’t realize this was a joke? as someone who is a liberal dem, i have no problem disagreeing with someone when i see fit, but c’mon, the guy was telling a joke.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:59 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
do you support the divisive republican candidacy of john mccain?
I believe McCain should distance himself from figures like Hagee and not seek their endorsement.
gee cap, i’m looking for a yes or a no in that response and i don’t see one, do you? just the usual troll spin.
be brave. be honest. pick one.
*
March 18th, 2008 at 4:03 pmGreat posts, Keltoi. Look forward to other threads.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:04 pmHe wasn’t laughing…….I’m not laughing.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:13 pmJoe,
do you support the divisive republican candidacy of john mccain?
Sounds a little like ‘have you stopped beating your wife’?
I haven’t made up my mind between McCain or Obama. But, I think you can disagree with a candidate on one (or more positions) and still support the candidate overall. I don’t think there has been a candidate that I have ever been in total agreement with.
What do you think?
CaptainMantastic
March 18th, 2008 at 4:43 pmJoe,
I have commented that I disagree with Hagee’s comments and with McCain’s association with Hagee.
I think Obama is responding appropriately to Wright’s comments, but while we are being brave and honest, watch the link, and let me know if you support the views, that most here, are unwilling to repudiate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
March 18th, 2008 at 5:03 pmHey Fred, your response was hilarious “he’s not laughing….i’m not laughing.” you should take that kinda material on the road. of all the things to take seriously about this administration, you get bent out of shape over a joke about a us naval ship arguing with a canadian lighthouse. yeah, thats the stuff that should piss people off, nevermind iraq, health care, the economy, illegal wiretaps, etc. yeah, jokes are what get me too.
March 18th, 2008 at 5:05 pmgood_golly Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am
What did we miss?
_________________
Florida voters remain disenfranchised by DNC. Thank you Mr. Dean.
—————————————
Sorry GG — I must have completely missed this when you first posted it. And it’s been so long that you probably won’t see my reply, but here goes anyway.
You somehow claim that the DNC and Howard Dean have “disenfranchised” the Florida Democrats. Not so. If anything, the Florida Democratic party has disenfranchised itself.
The rules were set well before the beginning of the primary process — Florida chose to ignore them. As a result, they held something that was not recognized by the national Democrats as a primary election. No recognition, no delegates.
Of course, because Florida has not yet held a primary election recognized by the national Democrats, they still can. If they choose not to, they are disenfranchising themselves.
Now, Joe Voter probably has had little or no influence on any of these decisions and is rather miffed that his vote won’t count. I agree that it’s not fair to him. I live in a state with a late primary, and I NEVER get a say in who my party’s nominee will be (although it looks like this year, I probably will), so I feel his pain. But maybe if enough voters get mad enough at the state party machinery, they might play by the rules next time.
Oh, and speaking of disenfranchisement, the Republicans aren’t much better. Their “winner take all” system has effectively denied convention representation for all the Republican voters who supported anyone but the top vote getter. This doesn’t seem fair, either — but can you imagine the reaction from McCain’s people if Huckabee or Romney wanted to change the rules after the fact?
March 18th, 2008 at 5:22 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
“I’m very honored by Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement today”
– John McCain
after you stop spinning you can check out this youtube of macsame supporter “pastor” hagee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA
and commenting isn’t answering yes or no, is it backup/captain mantastic?
now youtube these names these famous conservative republican religious supporters:
Ted Haggard
Pat Robertson
Tim LaHay
James Dobson
Rod Parsley
Jerry Falwell
Oral Roberts
Bob Jones
pretty disgusting isn’t it?
*
March 18th, 2008 at 6:11 pm229 – the election in 2000 was the craziest election in the lives of all those now alive. unless the scotus intervenes and installs McMaverick, 2000 will retain “craziest” status.
the fact that 2 D candidates are in for the duration of the primary race would be considered no big deal at all during most presidential election cycles.
p.s. to Captain – John McCain’s radical religious supporters advocate the violent overthrow of our own government.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:12 pmtombaker and joe cantwell. I’m agnostic. I don’t support any of the religious leaders noted. I think religion is probably the biggest problem we have.
You are preaching to the choir.
Joe, I’ll take you refusal to comment on Wright’s comments as an endorsement of the views.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:22 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
“Joe, I’ll take you refusal to comment on Wright’s comments as an endorsement of the views.”
s/b
“Joe, I’ll take your refusal to comment on Wright’s comments as an endorsement of the views.”
and commenting isn’t answering yes or no, is it backup/captain mantastic?
so we can assume that your refusal to answer my question indicates your support for mccain’s candidacy despite his endorsement by religious bigots john hagee and rod parsley. thank you.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:54 pmI answered you. I object to Hagee and McCains association to Hagee.
I object to Wright’s comments and I applaud Obama’s timely repudiation of the comments in question.
I’m not asking you to repudiate Obama’s candidacy because of his association to Wright, only Wright’s divisive comments. Obama had the good judgement to do it, how ’bout you.
Your turn.
March 18th, 2008 at 7:04 pmhmm, what part of the question:
“do you support the divisive candidacy of john mccain?”
do you not understand?
just a simple yes or no question. nothing tricky about it at all. i can answer it. no.
your turn.
*
March 18th, 2008 at 7:31 pmhave you stopped beating your wife?
If you say yes, it implies that you have beat your wife.
If you say no, you admit to beating you wife.
do you support McCain’s divise candidancy?
If I say yes, it implies that I agree his candidancy is divisive.
I don’t accept the premise that McCain’s candidancy is divisive.
Additionally, I don’t know who I would support between McCain or Obama. I would probably not vote for Clinton.
Do I support McCains candidancy? yes.
Do I support Obama’s candidancy? yes.
I think they are two imperfect, but good choices. To be honest, my views fall between the candidates. I haven’t made up my mind yet.
Now, do you support Wright’s comments?
March 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pmdjk Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Hey Fred, your response was hilarious “he’s not laughing….i’m not laughing.” you should take that kinda material on the road. of all the things to take seriously about this administration, you get bent out of shape over a joke about a us naval ship arguing with a canadian lighthouse. yeah, thats the stuff that should piss people off, nevermind iraq, health care, the economy, illegal wiretaps, etc. yeah, jokes are what get me too.
This your first day out of the box……if not you would know that your entire statement is pulled right out of your ass. To be perfectly honest, I don’t find a damn thing about this administration to be the least bit amusing and when they feebly attempt to be funny it basically infuriates me. Got any more dumb questions. Try contributing to the converstatin mr. “I’m a liberal dem”
When these people laugh, someone dies. Think that’s funny?
March 18th, 2008 at 8:04 pmCapain, you guys still beating this horse.
What the hell that Wright said exactly….quote it please….has your panties in such a wad.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:07 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
having it both ways?
you object you the word “divisive”?
perhaps you’re not a catholic. many catholics would disagree with your assertion. there’s strong debate on the subject. perhaps you should put down your prejudice and look into it yourself.
i wish you luck on your journey. perhaps somewhere along the way you’ll meet someone you never met before. yourself.
*
March 18th, 2008 at 8:18 pmCome on Fred,
Wright is basically saying that black people are being repressed – today – by rich, white people. And the members of his congregation are supporting him. Many here support him.
We would not accept a white pastor, or any white authority figure, trying to blame some societal ill on a group of people, based on their race. It’s racism.
A pastor that got up and preached that we can blame Americas moral decay on black people would (or definitely should) be abandoned to preach alone. Not supported and enabled by an enthusiastic congregation.
It almost seems that progressives expect less from black people than they would from whites. That is the opposite of compassion. Two wrongs don’t make it right. I believe we should hold everyone to the same standard. True equality.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:20 pmOkay, Joe I support McCain’s divisive candidancy.
Do you support Wright’s divisive comments?
I think I just found myself. Now, how about you?
March 18th, 2008 at 8:22 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
why that would be the “soft bigotry of low expectations”, wouldn’t it?
(that’s a quote cap, just can’t remember who said it… do you?)
March 18th, 2008 at 8:26 pmbackup Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Okay, Joe I support McCain’s divisive candidancy.
Do you support Wright’s divisive comments?
I think I just found myself. Now, how about you?
heck no!
and i’m proud of you cap… this is a breakthrough.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:27 pmIt took a long time, but we got there.
soft bigotry of low expectations? you’re guess is as good as mine.
I’ve got to split before my wife kills me for too much blogging. I wouldn’t want to deny this place the benefit of my wisdom.
Seriously, good crowd. Good nite.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:35 pmCaptain,
Since you left us with it and no one will probably read this anyway….
What I get is that you believe that Wright is guilty of some form of racism. I guess you have a case for this but I think it is petty and self-serving for you to invoke it.
Joe’ quote is about it too:
It was bush being petty and self-serving about no child left behind and few of his other cheap shot agendas
March 18th, 2008 at 9:09 pmtest
April 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pm