McCain modifies his al Qaeda in Iran claim.
McCain modifies his al Qaeda in Iran claim.
Yesterday, after Sen. John McCain embarrassed himself by falsely claiming on multiple occasions that Iranian operatives are “taking al-Qaeda into Iran, training them and sending them back,” right-wing bloggers argued that “he shouldn’t have taken his statement back.” Abandoning his “straight talk” and trying to please everyone, McCain made a variation of the claim in his statement on the fifth anniversary of the Iraq war today:
Al Qaeda and Shia extremists — with support from external powers such as Iran — are on the run but not defeated.
By structuring his sentence as such, McCain is trying to have it both ways. To the critics of his gaffe, he can say the aside about Iran is referring to “Shia extremists,” but he can also tell his right-wing critics that it refers to “al Qaeda.”
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Quick! Someone tell McSame that Gigi provided links that say that alQaeda is being trained by Iran! He doesn’t have to embarrass himself any more! Gigi has the evidence!
March 19th, 2008 at 12:59 pmThat might be a plus for him – his tragic misunderstanding of everything about Iraq and Islam maps very neatly onto the American Public’s utter misunderstanding of those same things.
When Passively Dumb met Aggressively Dumber : The Story of the McCain Presidency
March 19th, 2008 at 1:05 pmDo we really want a president who doesn’t know how to get the talking points of the day from Newsmax?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pmAll gaffes and displays of ignorance and confusion are OK if you are Republican. It’s is only Democrats whose words and nuamces are endlessly parsed and critiqued.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pmMcCain is simply not qualified to be president. He is physically too old and it shows.
Making fun of someone who cannot help what they are is unfair – but this is not making fun of him – it is facing the fact that his age is working against him, his experience is less than he touts, and his learning curve is way off.
McCainichally Modified el Caida
By splicing Shia sprout genes to Al-kaSeltzer molecules, Pork Chop McCain has engineered a very profitable terrorist.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pm“It’s good for you, and it calms your upset stomach!”
Clarke wrote a lot of things, didn’t he?
O-O – Since you’ve got so many deep critiques to offer, I’m sure you’ve also got some brilliant solutions in mind. Let’s hear about what you would do, instead of just what others should not do.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:10 pmMcCain and right-wing extremists — with support from corporate powers such as the military industrial complex — are on the run but not defeated.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:11 pmCome on, Mr. Ohayo – what are you for?
What is your recommendation?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:12 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
I’m for defeating the Islamofascists.
Do the “Islamofascists” make the trains run on time?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:18 pmThere we go, Mr. Ohayo.
Thanks. Another adherent of the “flypaper theory” – a sucker who believes we can war our way out of reality if only we’re willing to spend-and-kill indefinitely.
Truly a masterwork of subtle and brilliant genius there, Mr. Ohayo.
As a follow-up, what do you recommend we do when the People’s Republic of China calls in our credit card?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:19 pmMr Pee is back.
**eyes rolling**
March 19th, 2008 at 1:19 pmShorter McCain:
I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about. Help…
March 19th, 2008 at 1:20 pmDoes McInsane begin to comprehend how stupid he looks by constantly changing his position, and constantly clarifying and re-clarifying his hot air? Mr. Straight Talk has become Mr. Double Talk, and it’s insulting to my intelligence that he expects me to buy into what he’s saying.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:21 pm“islamofascist” – what a pathetic, oxymoronic construct that is. guess it’s successful as it needs to be, among the “I read good – at a 8th grade level” crowd.
If willful ignorance could be traded on the markets, we’d have no national debt at all.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pmIt is necessary for the press or the Democratic contenders to pin McCain down. He needs to be asked point blank – Are the Iranians training AQ personnel in Iran? If not, then why only list Iran as the agent training terrorists for insertion into Iraq? Which other countries are complicity in the training?
But we need not worry. The MSM is to busy talking about old straight talk to actually pin him down on anything. Meanwhile, the children are too busy fighting over the nomination to go after the only opponent that they will face.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:24 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I’m for defeating the Islamofascists.
Islamofascists…I thought that word is now only used by idiots and morons…oh, wait a minute…
March 19th, 2008 at 1:24 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Too bad Clinton reneged on his MFN promise regarding China.
Too bad you’re dumber than a box of hammers.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:25 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
“Come on, Mr. Ohayo – what are you for?”
I’m for defeating the Islamofascists. Just wish Think Progress and ther followers were for the same thing instead of advocating for surrender.
You are part of a very, very small number of dead-enders who are going to embrace Bush and shooter no matter what. Logic doesn’t work with you, facts do not work with you. You surrendered when you began listening to bush and hiding under your bed. You surrendered when you watched Bush destroy our Constitution and Bill of Rights. You surrendered when you continue to support – and worship – the worst president in US history. Face it, you have totally surrendered your ability to be taken seriously by anyone, anywhere.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:25 pmgood_golly Says:
Iran Training Pro-Iran Factions in Iraq
“Pro-Iran Factions” This is a revelation?
Gigi, does this mean you’ve given up your Iran = al Qaeda meme for now?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:26 pm19 – they sure as hell are – get a dictionary, remove your head from your nethers, and look it up.
raving righty kook
dittohead
March 19th, 2008 at 1:27 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I’m for defeating the Islamofascists. Just wish Think Progress and ther followers were for the same thing instead of advocating for surrender.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Silly righty – fighting a made-up word. “Islamofascists.” That’s so cute.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
It’s not an oxymoron, and neither is “liberal fascism.”
Read a history book sometime, moron. Mussolini, the father of fascism, imprisoned or shot all of the Socialists in Italy.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I’m for defeating the Islamofascists. Just wish Think Progress and ther followers were for the same thing instead of advocating for surrender.
Soon he’ll be calling us surrender monkeys and yelling HEEYYYYYYOOOOOO!!!!
Flag him.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pmYou two trolls couldn’t tell the difference between an Arab and a Persian, a Sunni and a Shia, even if your neighbors’ 19-year-old son’s life depended on it – AND IT DOES!
Somebody ought to yank your voters registrations, just like the drivers licenses of drunk drivers. You’re a danger to everyone around you.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pmIs Islamofacism anything similar to christiofacism? Aside from the fact that they’re both made up words created to try and make a soundbyte rather than actually solve the problem??
March 19th, 2008 at 1:33 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
It’s not an oxymoron, and neither is “liberal fascism.”
Of course not. Not if you don’t understand the terms “liberalism” and “fascism”.
And “Islamofascism” makes perfect sense if you throw out the Islamist desire for a theocratic state, and thus eliminate the conflict between Islamist theocracy and the fascist principle of religion being harnessed to serve the state.
http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=14449
March 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pmHey – how about a new tag for the GOP…
the Spend-and-Kill party.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:35 pmIf being a surrender-monkey means defending the Constitution against attack both external and internal… then let me climb up the tree and start flinging poo.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:36 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
It’s not an oxymoron, and neither is “liberal fascism.”
ralph the wonder llama Says:
Of course not. Not if you don’t understand the terms “liberalism” and “fascism”.
And “Islamofascism” makes perfect sense if you throw out the Islamist desire for a theocratic state, and thus eliminate the conflict between Islamist theocracy and the fascist principle of religion being harnessed to serve the state.
And the term “liberal fascism” flies in the face of, among other things, the fascist principle of religion being harnessed to serve the state, and the liberal principle of separation of church and state.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm1. McCain made a verbal gaffe yesterday.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm2. The 911 Commission found there was indeed contact between Iran and Al Qaeda.
3. While they are seperate sects of Islam, both Iran’s hardliners and AQ are our enemies. It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.
He calls it “Straight Talk”, we call it “Forked Tongue”.
And why can’t they PROVE that Iran is doing this? They keep saying it, but I have yet to see any PROOF that they are. With the Repukes you cannot ever believe anything those lying sacks of sh!t say.
Bush/Cheney
March 19th, 2008 at 1:44 pmHague Trials ‘09
Omicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I’m for defeating the Islamofascists.
——————————————–
Do you actually have some grasp of this concept, or are you merely parroting a wingnut soundbite? Assuming you can interpret this phrase into English, can you answer these questions?
1) What, exactly, is an Islamofascist?
2) Is this a term to be applied to all Muslims, or just certain ones? Which ones?
3) Can you recognize an Islamofascist just by looking at them? How do we tell which people are the ones we are fighting? Or do we blast everybody, just to be on the safe side?
4) How many Islamofascists are we fighting? What percent of the Iraqi population do they make up? And how do we “defeat” them? How can we tell when we have killed the very last one?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:46 pmshoeless Says:
And the term “liberal fascism” flies in the face of, among other things, the fascist principle of religion being harnessed to serve the state, and the liberal principle of separation of church and state.
Good point, Shoeless. Of the Fourteen Points of Fascism outlined in the link I provided above, about eleven of them directly contradict core principles of liberalism.
Things like:
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
6. Controlled Mass Media
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
and my favorite,
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Yeah, that sounds pretty liberal, don’t it?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:47 pm3. While they are seperate sects of Islam, both Iran’s hardliners and AQ are our enemies. It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.
____________
Pure speculation and therefore meaningless.
Not even close to a valid point.
NEXT!
March 19th, 2008 at 1:47 pmKeltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
there is serious debate that this is thinking is flawed and has resulted in the worst foreign policy blunder in our nation’s history.
some say this mistake will be remedy during the next presidential cycle.
there is strong doubt that neo-conservatism, as a political entity, will survive.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pmIs GiantZeroGoodMorning really Tracy2?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:50 pmFor a start, if they were on the run as he claims, the ‘mission acomplished’ embarassing statement would have been true. What we have in Iraq today, they can call them insurgency, terrorist, whatever. They are freedom fighter, that is, people from Iraq fighting a criminal invader and occupier. That reistance will last until the US is out or its economy in shambles. As per MacCocaine embarrasing words mistakes, the lies are so big they get it confused.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I’m for defeating the Islamofascists. Just wish Think Progress and ther followers were for the same thing instead of advocating for surrender.
Since Islamofascism is a word made up by ignorant f-k-wits and really does not even exist, you should be celebrating.
Educate yourself moron, you are only showing how gullible and shallow minded you are posting crap like this.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pm37… if I were you I wouldn’t quote a fraudlent comission such as the 9/11 comission. Which recently has been discredited for its bias and omission. 9/11 was made in USA!
March 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pmthis if funny, just up at C&L:
Actually, Max, many in the media don’t even think it’s worth mentioning. Maybe because they’re worried about losing an invitation to the next barbeque.
Since Lieberman was able to help him tell Shi’a from Shinola (love that phrasing!) yesterday, Blue Texan wants to know if McCain will have Holy Joe next to him at 3am?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/19/oops-he-did-it-again-mccain-confuses-iranal-qaeda-link-in-speech-marking-5th-anniversary-of-iraqi-invasion/#comments
the picture there is priceless… need a poster of that one…
March 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pmKeltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
3. While they are seperate sects of Islam, both Iran’s hardliners and AQ are our enemies. It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.
Bullshit. Iran’s hardliners are our friends in Iraq, which is why we’re both working to prop up the SCRI government led by Noori al-Maliki. Al-Qa’ida of Mesopotamia frequently targets this “Shi’ite apostate” government with attacks. How can you say they’re “working together” to thwart us?
March 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
The term “Islamofascist” is used by, among others, Charles Krauthammer, whose educational background far exceeds yours.
Oh, really…
March 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pmSo you know my educational background, do you?
Please, tell us. What is it and how do you know?
The Republic of Stupidity Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
3. While they are seperate sects of Islam, both Iran’s hardliners and AQ are our enemies. It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.
____________
Pure speculation and therefore meaningless.
Not even close to a valid point.
NEXT!
Did you miss the part about the 911 Commission finding Iran and AQ did indeed work together? It isn’t pure speculation. Whoever is President next will have to be awake to this reality.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:00 pm46 – want to make some more unfounded assumptions? you’re done – now, and at any date in the future you choose to come in here peddling your tripe.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
The term “Islamofascist” is used by, among others, Charles Krauthammer, whose educational background far exceeds yours.
Do you think Chuckles learned that term in college? You would think that a guy named Krauthammer would have a better understanding of fascism.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pmKeltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
1. McCain made a verbal gaffe yesterday.
2. The 911 Commission found there was indeed contact between Iran and Al Qaeda.
3. While they are seperate sects of Islam, both Iran’s hardliners and AQ are our enemies. It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.
McBush made a verbal gaffe? No sir, he said what he meant. He said exactly what he meant, only it was incorrect. Doesn’t that frighten you just a little bit? Your next chosen king does not know who we are fighting. Isn’t it past time to expect our elected officials to have more brains than this?
BTW, If you liked Bush’s impact on our planet and our nation – you will love McCains….
March 19th, 2008 at 2:02 pmKeltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Did you miss the part about the 911 Commission finding Iran and AQ did indeed work together? It isn’t pure speculation. Whoever is President next will have to be awake to this reality.
Too bad about the facts huh?
Like the fact that the Taliban and Al Qaeda was attacking Iran at the border and a Afghanistan was technically at war with Iran before the US invaded Afghanistan.
So they were killing each other and “working together” at the same time, huh? Interesting…
March 19th, 2008 at 2:05 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I find it amazing how many liberals don’t know the difference between Afghan Arabs and Afghans. We supported the latter after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, yet most liberals claim that we also supported the former with arms and aid, which we did not.
Really? So does this mean that the ISI kept careful track of every dollar and every arms shipment they distributed to the Afghan mujaheddin to make sure it wasn’t shared with their allies from Saudi Arabia?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:06 pmKeltoi Says:
Did you miss the part about the 911 Commission finding Iran and AQ did indeed work together? It isn’t pure speculation. Whoever is President next will have to be awake to this reality.
Hussein’s Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The U.S. military’s first and only study looking into ties between Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and al Qaeda showed no connection between the two, according to a military report released by the Pentagon.
The report released by the Joint Forces Command five years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq said it found no “smoking gun” after reviewing about 600,000 Iraqi documents captured in the invasion and looking at interviews of key Iraqi leadership held by the United States, Pentagon officials said.
The assessment of the al Qaeda connection and the insistence that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction were two primary elements in the Bush administration’s arguments in favor of going to war with Iraq.
The Pentagon’s report also contradicts then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who said in September 2002 that the CIA provided “bulletproof” evidence demonstrating “that there are, in fact, al Qaeda in Iraq.”
March 19th, 2008 at 2:07 pm48 – No – we gave Osama Bin Laden CIA training in Afghanistan, and left the Afghans to fend for themselves.
But then again, our military and intelligence apparatus have always been completely controlled by Right-Wingers, so it’s no surprise to find matters all screwed up.
Aside from further deflection and obfuscation, what could possibly be your point?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:07 pmUh-Oh… (giantzerogoodmorning)-
March 19th, 2008 at 2:08 pmThe U.S. most definetly did support the Mujahideen in Afganistan and I think that most liberals are aware of this fact… if you would like further information it can be found here
The Mujahideen included Muslim fighters both from outside Afganistan and from within it.
Omicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I find it amazing how many liberals don’t know the difference between Afghan Arabs and Afghans.
After reading this, I find it amazing you have enough intelligence to remember to breathe.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:10 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
The term “Islamofascist” is used by, among others, Charles Krauthammer, whose educational background far exceeds yours.
Krauthammer was also a staunch supporter of this boneheaded invasion of Iraq. Proving that even educated people can be complete morons.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:10 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Yes, we should have left a murderous tyrant who wanted to blackmail the world with nuclear weapons in power. That would have been the smart thing to do.
There are plenty of murderous tyrants who want to blackmail the world that we leave in power. Most of them we installed there in the first place.
And yes, it would’ve been a smart way to save more than 4,000 American lives and more than 1.2 million Iraqi lives and more than 4 trillion dollars.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:14 pmI’m amazed at the flimsy foundations on which conservatives here, trolls and Keltoi alike, will build their arguments. Use of terms like “linked” (which could mean anything) attempt to establish objective fact far beyond that supported by the source material.
The starting point for any reasonable discussion has to be a common vocabulary, applied universally. But that doesn’t suit partisans (yes, liberals as well as conservatives, but of course, I see the sins of the right most clearly) who seek to elasticize terms like “contact”, “support” and even “fascism” to get them to conform to their agenda, even when it renders the terms nonsensical.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:15 pmYes, we should have left a murderous tyrant who wanted to blackmail the world with nuclear weapons in power. That would have been the smart thing to do.
Oh Oh- Where were those Nuclear Weapons?? I’d like to see them… you may provide a link.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:16 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
It’s true. Most liberals do not know the difference between Afghans and Afghan Arabs. You may even be one of those liberals.
Oh, please explain the difference.
And you still haven’t answered how you know what my educational background is and how you know?
I need another good laugh.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pmkaty Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
katy Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
WHY???
March 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pmHowever, Afghan Arabs received their aid from Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:18 pmWho recieve their aid from the U.S.
The expression “dumber than a bag of hair” would not even do justice to this troll.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
The term “Islamofascist” is used by, among others, Charles Krauthammer, whose educational background far exceeds yours.
Let’s grant this point to Oh-oh for the sake of argument.
Presumably, if this is a valid defense of the term “islamofascist”, that implies that anyone whose education reaches an appropriate level (M.D. in Psychiatry, according to wikipedia) must be similarly accepted as an authority.
Right?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
“Most of them we installed there in the first place.”
That’s an inaccurate statement.
True, true – some we just prop up with arms and aid, like Pervez Musharraf or Álvaro Uribe or Hosni Mubarak or Yoweri Museveni or Joseph Kabila or Islom Karimov.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
“Most of them we installed there in the first place.”
That’s an inaccurate statement.
Oh, NOW Oh-oh gets literal with language? What happened to the guy who claimed that Clinton “killed” over half a million Iraqis?
By this standard, isn’t THAT an “inaccurate statement” too?
Jeezus, at least have a consistent linguistic philosophy.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:25 pm66 -The thing is Ralph, if one can just grasp enough straws, then they can fashion an entire straw man from them, put it on a unicorn, and launch into glorious battle against the crazy moonbats who want to live under the new Caliphate.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:26 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
You said you knew my educational background. Please prove it, Liar.
Let me give you a clue, part of my job I design computer parts and write drivers for them, in machine language. I would qualify to teach college classes.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:27 pmHint: You need much more than a GED for that =)
Omicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
So your argument is that we should have waited until Saddam actually had nuclear weapons before we took action?
Of course not. I believe that with a sustained campaign of competent diplomacy we could have convinced our old CIA asset to back off from his nuclear ambitions, just as we did in North Korea.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:28 pmI’d like to know why we give them military aid as well…
March 19th, 2008 at 2:28 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Keltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
3. While they are seperate sects of Islam, both Iran’s hardliners and AQ are our enemies. It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.
Bullshit. Iran’s hardliners are our friends in Iraq, which is why we’re both working to prop up the SCRI government led by Noori al-Maliki. Al-Qa’ida of Mesopotamia frequently targets this “Shi’ite apostate” government with attacks. How can you say they’re “working together” to thwart us?
What I said was “It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.”
What, are you suggesting the Persians and Arabs are incapable of double-dealing?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:29 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
So your argument is that we should have waited until Saddam actually had nuclear weapons before we took action?
Without wishing to put words in the mouth of belac (something that clearly doesn’t bother troll Oh-oh) I’d suggest that belac’s argument is probably closer to “we were told Saddam had nukes and that this threat justified an invasion. There were no nukes. Therefore, the argument used to justify the invasion was invalid”.
Apologies to belac if I misrepresented his position.
The question Oh-oh needs to answer is, given that you’ve established “wants to develop nuclear weapons” as a threshold for invasion, are you content to invade every nation that wants to develop nuclear weapons, no matter how incapable they may be at the moment?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:30 pmDoesn’t matter if it has 11 PhD’s, if it’s shot-through with rabid-right ideology, it has already been proven a failure in every sense of the word.
Never has a Right-Wing government succeeded – any kind, any where, any time.
Righty Ideology is a failure and a waste – all the time, every time.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:32 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
That’s a different argument. One of your fellow moonbats stated that only the uneducated use the term “Islamofascist.” I noted that that is not the case since the highly educated Krauthammer uses the term. That was the argument.
WRONG. Here’s the original post that inspired your Charles Krauthammer response:
Wayne Says:
Since Islamofascism is a word made up by ignorant f-k-wits and really does not even exist, you should be celebrating.
Educate yourself moron, you are only showing how gullible and shallow minded you are posting crap like this.
Wayne said IGNORANT, not “uneducated”. Do you agree that it’s possible (maybe even common) for someone to be highly educated yet ignorant?
If you’re going to base your arguments on precise technicalities, perhaps you’d better exercise some rhetorical discipline yourself.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:33 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I noted that that is not the case since the highly educated Krauthammer uses the term. That was the argument.
sorry, but there is strong debate regarding krauthammer’s education and expertise. your argument is therefore without merit.
i feel sorry for you. i truly do.
*
March 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pmKeltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
What I said was “It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.”
What, are you suggesting the Persians and Arabs are incapable of double-dealing?
No. I’ve lost my shirt in Moroccan souqs many times – I know how capable Arabs are at double-dealing, and I can only assume Persians are just as good at it.
But I do think it’s quite far-fetched to believe that Iranian hardliners would want to support al-Qa’ida hardliners against us as a “common enemy.” In Iraq, we’re not Iran’s enemy. We’re their friend. We’re the ones supporting the same government they’re supporting and sending their President to visit, without a flak jacket. Why on earth would Iran want to support a group that aims to undermine that government?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pminteresting.
iraqi troops supporting democratic candidates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGlXsTjJeb4
not mcsame?
*
March 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
There is no debate regarding Krauthammer’s education. He earned an MD from Harvard. That’s a fact, but I realize you moonbats aren’t big on facts.
And there is also no debate regarding Krauthammer’s support of this moronic war in Iraq. Now, you want facts? I’m big on facts. Here are some facts:
4,000 Americans dead – that’s a fact.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:44 pm20,000 Americans wounded – that’s a fact.
1.2 million Iraqis dead – that’s a fact.
2 million Iraqis internally displaced and another 2 million refugees – that’s a fact.
$4 trillion dollars in estimated total costs – that’s a fact.
No weapons of mass destruction found – that’s a fact.
No Iraq/al-Qa’ida connection – that’s a fact.
Keltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
What I said was “It is not too far fetched to imagine they would work together to thwart us in Iraq.”
Iran is Shiite, Al Qaeda is Sunni
Here is one article about the battles between the Taliban and Iran from 1998:
By DOUGLAS JEHL
Published: October 9, 1998
Iran said today that its troops had clashed with Taliban forces along the Afghan border and inflicted heavy casualties there in a skirmish between neighbors who have been in a tense standoff.
The reported fighting, which followed more than two months of bellicose statements from both sides, would be the first between Iran and the Taliban, whose rival interpretations of Islam have contributed to open hostility.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:44 pmhttp://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D07E3DC133BF93AA35753C1A96E958260
Omicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Ralph:
“Educate yourself moron, you are only showing how gullible and shallow minded you are posting crap like this.”
You’re wrong yet again. The word “educate” was clearly used. You better brush up on your reading skills, moonbat.
But that’s not what you said. You defended your response by saying:
One of your fellow moonbats stated that only the uneducated use the term “Islamofascist.”
So, sorry, you’re the one who’s wrong. No one said that “only the uneducated use the term”.
Yes, there was a reference to “educate” but it was in reference to yourself, not to those who use the term generally.
Man, you really suck at this.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:46 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
We were never told that Saddam already had nuclear weapons. The argument was that we needed to stop Saddam BEFORE he had nuclear weapons. Gosh you’re ignorant.
The argument used to justify the war was that it was a preemptive invasion.
In order to preempt something, there must be something to preempt. Since Iraq’s nuclear weapons were a pipe dream in Saddam Hussein’s head, this was not a preemptive invasion. It was an act of aggression against a sovereign state that posed no threat to us.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:48 pmOO is one real professional Clinton-hater, ain’t he??
good for you, OO – if it weren’t for your pathological obsession with the former president, you’d probably be out shooting up a mall somewhere, so I suppose it’s best that you’re here, ranting and raving, and serving as a handy punching bag for all those of use who are sick to death of hearing Righty Lies all day every day.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:49 pmInteresting. In one post, Oh-oh makes this statement:
We were never told that Saddam already had nuclear weapons. The argument was that we needed to stop Saddam BEFORE he had nuclear weapons. Gosh you’re ignorant.
Then, barely three minutes later, it makes this seemingly contradictory staemnt:
Gosh you’re ignorant. Richard Clarke noted in 1998 that only a handful of nations were on the list of countries who were believed to have WMD AND were on the STtae Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism. Iraq was on that list
In both statements, the troll claimed that I was the ignorant one. Can anyone explain this?
Man, this troll really sucks at this.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pmI am personally very, very afraid of the HinduMarxists and the BhuddoCommunists.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
sorry, didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. just strong debate. i mean if i need a doctor, i might go see dr. krauthammer about it. after all “w” has a degree from harvard and there’s strong debate about his education and expertise too.
http://208.65.153.238/watch?v=g4bC_QA2HOo&watch_response
feel better?
don’t be afraid of strong debate. some say it helps find the truth.
hey maybe you can send these iraqi soldiers a link to “sins of the husband”…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGlXsTjJeb4
eh?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:51 pmOoops, correction ~ HindoMarxists
March 19th, 2008 at 2:51 pmYou see, Ralph, the only people who know anything about anything are those fortunate enough to have seen the Righty pseudo-documentary asshat keeps linking to.
After you’ve seen it, you’ll agree with everything OO says, and together you will earn pats on the head from the Cheerleader-Warrior-Prince, and all those guys that used to pick on you will know that you were better than them all along.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
One of your fellow moonbats stated that only the uneducated use the term “Islamofascist.”
Fact: no one said such a thing. Troll has produced no evidence that anyone said such a thing.
Troll really sucks bad at this.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pmOh, and don’t forget to have your daily dose of fear of the PantheoAnarchists…
March 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I’m amazed at the flimsy foundations on which conservatives here, trolls and Keltoi alike, will build their arguments. Use of terms like “linked” (which could mean anything) attempt to establish objective fact far beyond that supported by the source material.
The starting point for any reasonable discussion has to be a common vocabulary, applied universally. But that doesn’t suit partisans (yes, liberals as well as conservatives, but of course, I see the sins of the right most clearly) who seek to elasticize terms like “contact”, “support” and even “fascism” to get them to conform to their agenda, even when it renders the terms nonsensical.
Very well said, Ralph, and that is why I normally avoid any thread touching Iraq or the Middle East. All it winds up as is at worst a shouting match and at very best people talking past each other.
You know me, this isn’t a partisan thing with me. The Middle East is a very murky place; things are seldom what they appear. All of us 6000 miles away at our computers have no way of knowing what is really happening there. But damned if we don’t feel like we do.
So, I’ll stand by my original views on McCain yesterday (BTW, Shoeless at 56, I said IraN, not IraQ)but I have learned that the topic as a whole is a rhetorical quagmire unless the people having the discussion are ideologically aligned, in which case the discussion is harldly worth having, it is just echo chamber stuff.
That isn’t meant as criticism, BTW, it is just a sad reality.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pmRUCerious Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I am personally very, very afraid of the HinduMarxists and the BhuddoCommunists.
As you should – Marxist groups in India and Nepal can be quite dangerous. And, unlike Islamofascists, they actually exist.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:54 pmWe were never told that Saddam already had nuclear weapons. The argument was that we needed to stop Saddam BEFORE he had nuclear weapons. Gosh you’re ignorant.
We were told he had “weapons related activities” that the media conflated into actual, active weapons programs. Add that with the bogus claims about Yellowcake, and you have the necessary ingredients to scare the public sh*tless. They didn’t need to actually say there were weapons, the Bedwetter Brigade made that leap of illogic.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:55 pmUnderstood, Keltoi. I agree. And I noted that Shoeless misread your Iran post as meaning Iraq.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:56 pmThat’s a lie. You’ve multiplied the actual amount by eight. The U.S. miitary budget is about 5 percent of GNP. Iraq’s share of that 5 percent is about 15 percent
More baloney, as much of the military’s spending if off the books…
March 19th, 2008 at 2:56 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
That’s a different argument. One of your fellow moonbats stated that only the uneducated use the term “Islamofascist.” I noted that that is not the case since the highly educated Krauthammer uses the term. That was the argument.
———————————-
And what a strawman argument it is, too! Admittedly, no absolutes should have been used in the claim that the term “Islamofascist” is used by the uneducated, since all you have to do to counter that is to provide an example of ONE person with an advanced degree who has used the term — even if that person is using it to appeal to base instincts of bigotry.
A better point to make is that the term has been co-opted by those who wanted to connect Saddam Hussein to Al Qaeda and 9/11. Because even people with only a high school education can grasp that Iraq and Afghanistan are two different countries, and anyone who reads the news knows that Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with Iraq, some common denominator had to be devised in order to bring “The War On Terror” to the country Bushco REALLY wanted to go after — Iraq. Enter “Islamofascism”. It conflated two separate concepts. “Fascism” — even though few Americans can properly define the term, carries enough negative connotation that it will poison anything it’s conflated with. So when conflated with “Islam”, there will be enough people who will get the intended message — Islam is bad, so invading Iraq is a great idea. In fact, it worked SO well, that for the first year after the invasion, just over half of our population believed Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11!
Yes, you can find some people with college educations who use the word “Islamofascism”. However, most of the usage is by the uneducated, or by those who are shoveling propaganda to the uneducated.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:57 pmHas anyone seen or heard from O.Bigpatooty lately?
March 19th, 2008 at 2:57 pmI was out roaming around his neighborhood, and just wondered if he was alright, or if he’d gotten into trouble out in the Zuni’s…
I think Zooey’s right. This new troll is Mr. Pee in new pajamas.
Same wishful-thinking arguments couched in aggressive bluster, same false sense of cleverness… we didn’t miss ya, Mr. Pee.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:58 pmtombaker Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
OO is one real professional Clinton-hater, ain’t he??
good for you, OO – if it weren’t for your pathological obsession with the former president, you’d probably be out shooting up a mall somewhere, so I suppose it’s best that you’re here, ranting and raving, and serving as a handy punching bag for all those of use who are sick to death of hearing Righty Lies all day every day.
Yeah. I have to admit, it’s been quite satisfying schooling his lying ass in this thread.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:00 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I think Zooey’s right. This new troll is Mr. Pee in new pajamas.
Same wishful-thinking arguments couched in aggressive bluster, same false sense of cleverness… we didn’t miss ya, Mr. Pee.
I believe it is instead Mr Pee’s BFF, CT.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
The intelligence community concluded from Joe Wilson’s Niger report that Iraq actually did try to obtain yellowcake from Niger.
Which intelligence community do you mean? The ones at the CIA who concluded that the yellowcake documents were forged, or the Plan B neocons who convinced Colin Powell to ignore the CIA’s experts?
March 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pmOO – the living proof that “the Right” is bankrupt in every regard.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:09 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
I guess that is an indication that you’re having a hard time facing the facts.
the math is simple:
fact ? link
here, you try.
fact ___ link.
i’ll be back in an hour to see how you’re doing.
bonus problem:
argument ___ link
(if you have time for it)
*
March 19th, 2008 at 3:10 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
If you had read the article, moonbat, you wouldn’t have to ask that question.
BTW, Bush’s 16 words were not based on any forged documents. See bullet point #4:
Pointless drivel. The fact is that there is no proof that Iraqi diplomats had the intent to purchase uranium from Niger, and even if they did, they couldn’t have. It’s not Niger’s to sell. Niger doesn’t mine or process its own uranium. Niger’s uranium mines are owned by French companies and are under the supervision of France’s atomic energy agency. So even if these Iraqis wanted to purchase uranium from Niger, it was an impossibility.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3065165.stm
March 19th, 2008 at 3:13 pmaw c’mon TP… hold that place above, folks… come back for it…
katy Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:14 pmMarch 19th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
or, go to #48
March 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
shouldn’t you be doing your homework?
times running out.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:18 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Perhaps, but there is evidence and, as Factcheck.org and the Washington Post both noted, Joe Wilson provided that evidence.
Of SPECULATION. Of SPECULATION that Iraqi agents went to Niamey with the intent to purchase uranium that Niger couldn’t have sold them in the first place. That’s a far cry from the imminent threat of a mushroom cloud Bush wanted to reinforce with his 16 words.
And, as we learned at the cost of 4,000 troops and 1.2 million Iraqis and millions of refugees and trillions of dollars, it wasn’t true.
How you can continue to defend it based on semantic technicalities is beyond me.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:28 pmOmicron Ohayo Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I have backed up my statements here. You moonbats cannot say the same.
Yeah, those nukes from Saddam looked threatening.
What a waste of time this troll is.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:34 pmKeltoi, your attempt to link Al-Qaeda with Iran is, indeed, sad.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:37 pmJuan C. Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Keltoi, your attempt to link Al-Qaeda with Iran is, indeed, sad.
Hey Juan,
It wasn’t my attempt, it was the finding of the 911 Com
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6581-2004Jun25.html
but I read someone else say that Commission no longer had credibility? They then revealed themselves as a conspiracy nut, but did I miss where 911 Com had lost its cred on the left? It has been used as a hammer to beat up on Bush by the Dems and many here….did something happen? I am totally serious.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:58 pmKeltoi:
I would believe in the 911 Commission as hard as I believe in God…which means nothing. The funny part is when the state apparata contradict themselves.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:01 pmKeltoi Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
but I read someone else say that Commission no longer had credibility? They then revealed themselves as a conspiracy nut, but did I miss where 911 Com had lost its cred on the left? It has been used as a hammer to beat up on Bush by the Dems and many here….did something happen? I am totally serious.
It was speculative at the time and is outdated now, Keltoi. Surely you haven’t missed the much more recent report from those commie pinkos at the Pentagon, have you?
March 19th, 2008 at 4:15 pmgummitch Says:
It was speculative at the time and is outdated now, Keltoi. Surely you haven’t missed the much more recent report from those commie pinkos at the Pentagon, have you?
Guess I have been on the Moon, or maybe I heard the Dems invoke its sanctity so many times during the 2006 election the nerve died.
So what do they call the new edition, Son of 911? And do they repudiate the original report it toto vis Iran and AQ? Got a link, by chance?
See? The things a Troll can learn at TP!
March 19th, 2008 at 4:22 pmMcCain’s new sentence structure changes nothing because of his use of “and”. The “and” ties both al Qaeda and Shia extremists to Iran and other countries, perhaps Saudia Arabia. McCain is not getting it both ways. McCain is getting it wrong. Still.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:46 pm#45 Ohayo: Would you call Saddam an Islamofascist? Most thought he was basically secular, and had no sectarian violence during his reign. Now, of course, he was a bad man, but if defeating Islamofacism is your new stated goal for neocons, why start the war at all?
Well, let me answer that, you wanted to get Al Alqaeda into Iraq so you could fight them there instead of here. This sounds pretty convuluted, to me, but then I think it will make great sense to you…
March 19th, 2008 at 7:48 pm