Kagan Disagrees With Petraeus: ‘The Situation In Iraq Today Is Not That Fragile’
Kagan Disagrees With Petraeus: ‘The Situation In Iraq Today Is Not That Fragile’
Asked on PBS’s The Charlie Rose Show earlier this week about “how fragile” the surge in Iraq is, surge architect and American Enterprise Institute “military analyst” Frederick Kagan declared that “the situation in Iraq today is, I think, not that fragile.” He then added that he believed Iraq would be “fragile” if America made “the mistake of pulling out prematurely.”
“If we don’t make that mistake, then I think what we’re seeing in general terms is that the momentum on almost all of the trend lines is in the right direction,” said Kagan. “There are a lot of good reasons to think that this will continue if we don’t make the errors that would undermine it.”
Watch it:
Kagan’s bold claim about the surge’s lack of fragility is directly contradicted by Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, who told CBS News this week that “while military progress has been made with a ’surge’ of U.S. forces, ‘progress in Iraq is fragile, it is tenuous.’”
In fact, the very next day following Kagan’s remarks, the Guardian reported on one key aspect of the surge’s strategy that is quite fragile: the reliabilty of U.S. alliances with Sunni militia. The report noted that “Sunni militia employed by the US to fight al-Qaida are warning of a national strike because they are not being paid regularly”:
Leading members of the 80,000-strong Sahwa, or awakening, councils have said they will stop fighting unless payment of their $10 a day (£5) wage is resumed. The fighters are accusing the US military of using them to clear al-Qaida militants from dangerous areas and then abandoning them.
A telephone survey by GuardianFilms for Channel 4 News reveals that out of 49 Sahwa councils four with more than 1,400 men have already quit, 38 are threatening to go on strike and two already have.
Iraq is fragile beyond the question of whether American troops withdraw or not. “What happens if the Ayatollah Sistani gets assassinated?” Center for American Progress Senior Fellow Lawrence Korb has asked rhetorically. His answer: “All hell breaks loose.”
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Kagan has zero credibility. Liar, Traitor, criminal scum.
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:29 pmThe bottom line is that it is the United States military in the Iraq and the Middle East that is inflaming the insurgency [which should be more properly termed the resistance fighters]. Once that fact is acknowledged, then it should be simple to recognize the spin that Kagan is attempting to weave in his foolish attempt to rationalize the presence of the U.S. military in Iraq.
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:33 pmNow who would a guy who sits in an office ALL day know if its fragile or not?????
Crackpot realists.
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:36 pmWhy is Charlie Rose giving this dumb cowardly freak a forum?
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:36 pmmmm – chubby pantywaist from wingnut welfare stink tank
Frag on!!!
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:39 pmHes a floater, flush it!!!
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:40 pmPolitical parties, media worldwide slam U.S.-led war in Iraq
The Saudi Arabian newspaper Al-Watan said the Iraqi people have led a panic-filled and miserable life and suffered from poverty since the outbreak of the Iraqi war five years ago. The U.S.-led invasion and occupation does not bring any benefit to them, and the Bush administration’s promise and gloss cannot cover up facts of war crimes.
“The appalling death toll including hundreds of thousands, of innocent Iraqi civilians is going to keep going… It’s time for an end to the occupation of Iraq and for the Iraqis to sort out their own future,” Australian Greens leader Bob Brown said.
Japan’s newspaper The Asahi Shimbun said: “Five years have elapsed since the start of the Iraq war, but there are people who are still trying to justify this historic blunder.”
http://www.mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=586260
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:43 pm3996
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:43 pmThe Iraq catastrophe isn’t down to mistakes or lack of planning, but a refusal to accept that people will resist foreign occupation
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:46 pmAll the people who supported the war in Congress and the Senate that voted in favour of it, SHAME on you, you in part are responsible for the million or so innocents slaughtered in this illegal war and occupation..
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:48 pmOne thing that I find confusing is why are we paying the Sunni’s to guard their country. Why is it up to us to pay them. Why isn’t the Iraqi government paying them? This is why we need to get the hell out of Iraq. The Iraqi’s aren’t going to step up to the plate and do the right thing until we leave and they have no other choice. They seem to be quite content to have us pay for their security. There is something VERY wrong with that picture.
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:48 pmPetraeus is a complete tool, but this butterball knows more?
Heh.
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm11One thing that I find confusing is why are we paying the Sunni’s to guard their country.
2 reasons
1/ Bush needs to be able to say the surge worked
2/ The Sunnis are being armed just in case Bush attacks Iran and the Shia come after Americans, there will be a Sunnis Shia bloodbath
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:08 pmHad King George the Dumb’s daddy made “the mistake of pulling out prematurely” we wouldn’t be in this mess.
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:17 pmWhy is this twit even talking about “premature withdrawal”?
“Premature”?
Given that this was an invasion launched on false premises, and has turned into an occupation that Iraqis do not want, I’d say withdrawal is long overdue.
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:24 pmHell.. I agree with him. The situation in Iraq is NOT fragile. It’s broke. I haven’t heard any good news coming out of Iraq that wasn’t from an administration mouthpiece or a Republican who has every reason to lie. None of these idiots even have the guts to stand up and say “I was wrong when I said the war would be easy and over quick.” Yes, that includes the Democrats.
If we’re going to win, then why haven’t we? If we’re not going to win, why are we there?
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:29 pmCharlie has long needed to grow a pair. The only time I’ve seen him at all confrontational is when Amy Goodman had the temerity to suggest that corporate interests set the framework for discussion.
For Perle and Kagan he might have noted, “You two have been wrong about everything. Shouldn’t we assume that the truth is the opposite of what you say?”
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:44 pmGiven Kagan a break. Like all the architects and cheerleaders of this war, he either has to view Iraq through the rosiest lens possible, or go put a bullet in his brain. Not much of a choice, really.
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:46 pmReally? When are idiots such as Kagan going to be put out to pasture? When are these rolly-polly asswipes going to be taken for what they are – liars, cheats and whores.
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:49 pmIts clear the Irag campaign provides sexual gratification for the Neo-cons. Look at the phraseology this fool Kagan uses, “the mistake of pulling out prematurely.”
Basically, the neo-cons want to consummate a rape of a perfectly chaste and innocent country.
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:51 pmHow come when Petraeus said what Chimpy wanted him to say, the neocons were falling all over themselves to praise his first-hand knowledge, but now that his first-hand observations are somewhat, shall we say, inconvenient, the lard-butt on wingnut welfare knows better?
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:51 pmKagan also conveniently fails to mention that the “surge” was sold as a short-term, temporary measure to “secure” Baghdad, back in Jan 2007.
Why are these people -ie. Kagan & the other warmongers- still given any airtime at all? Even after they’ve been proven wrong about practically everything they babble about.
These people deserve public scorn and ridicule, not being invited to a serious discussion, let alone allowed to pontificate about “premature withdrawal” and the “fragility” of the “surge” in Iraq.
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:53 pmOn what information does Kagan base his opinion on anything having to do with Iraq other than what he reads from the safety of his armchair? And on what basis does Think Progress or Charlie Rose or any other media base their belief that his opinion is worth listening to?
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm#17-cavjam
Jeremy Paxman, of BBC’s Newsnight, did exactly that last night on his show, basically posing that same question to one of the architects of the illegal invasion, Richard Perle. As to be expected, Perle would not acknowledge that it was wrong, if not a war crime, for the U.S. to have invaded Iraq under false pretenses, trying to claim, unconvincingly, that things are somehow getting better in Iraq. As one of Paxman’s guests pointed out, the only way things will improve in Iraq is for the U.S. to remove its troops from Iraq as quickly and as rapidly as possible.
March 22nd, 2008 at 3:01 pmHaving failed to complete their own reality, they are only left with willful ignorance. GOP the party of WILLFUL IGNORANCE.
March 22nd, 2008 at 3:03 pmIs there anything at all that we can do for the poor abused Iraqi people, other than just leave?
March 22nd, 2008 at 3:05 pmIf these neo-cons could fu(k like they war, they wouldn’t have to make war.
March 22nd, 2008 at 3:07 pmRepublicans strategy to every problem seems to be “Think happy thoughts! Think happy thoughts!”
And they accuse Obama of wishfull thinking?
March 22nd, 2008 at 3:20 pmExperts Agree!
Everything’s Fine!
Even when the experts are totally wrong.
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:28 pmThe Bush administration and followers exist on wishful thinking and detachment from reality. Where seldom is heard a discouraging word and the skies are not cloudy or gray.
Don’t the war supporters say we have to listen to the commanders “on the ground”
Didn’t the war supporters throw a major hissy fit about MoveOn calling the general Betray-Us.
Whattya bet pudgy pundit Fred Kagan never dodged a bullet or an IED.
His daddy should have pulled out prematurely.
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:30 pmKagen, another shining example of chickenhawk manhood.
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:32 pmCan’t we get all these guys together and form a Chickenhawk Brigade to send to Iraq?
kagan is the complete idiot but moreoever Petraeus should have realized that if you jump in the sack with crap you will come out with crap.Won’t be too long before the Repukes start saying Petraeus is not a real general.
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:43 pmKagan statmenets indictes a total ignornace about Iraq,the Arab countries and the whole Middle East.
March 22nd, 2008 at 4:57 pmWhat are his Middle Eastern credentials?
America today produces more ‘Middle Eastern experts’ than any other country on this planet.These so called experts do not speak the language,never read a book written by an Arab author,know little if none about religion and culture of the area.
May be that’s why we are stuck in Arabian sands in the Middle East,listening to these stupid experts like the so called Kagan.
I suggest all of these experts go and take a course in Arabian history,religion and culture with empahsis on Crusaders wars,before televisions list them as experts.
Once again this fat ass gets to spew his echoes of nonsense for the halls of the “think” tank he works for..
IF he would actually get OFF that fat ass of his and go see for himself MAYBE he would realize what a crook he is professing!!
Again, a paid-for-voice by dubya and his gang to spread the lies cheeeeney’s office makes up…amazing Rose couldn’t see thru this but I guess with that black eye….hum…
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:17 pm.
And Kagan has spent as much, if not more time in the field than Petraeus?
Look, to date:
~ NO WMD’s
~ NO TIES to Al-CIA-duh
~ NO YELLOW CAKE URANIUM from NIGER
~ NO BIO-CHEM MOBIL WEAPONS PLANTS
~ NO SUIT CASE NUKES
~ NO IMMINENT THREAT
~ IRAQ HAS HAD IT’S ELECTIONS, T W I C E!
~ MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
~ NO POLITICAL SOLUTION IN PLACE, POST SURGE!
Time for America to clean house!
Kagan and the like HAVE NO MORE CREDIBILITY!
The ONLY thing they have credible about themselves is their accomplishment at committing WAR CRIMES!
.
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:50 pmKagan’s entire bullshit reputation rests on whether or not the surge is a success. Like George W. Bush, Freddie is trying to distinguish himself in the eyes of his father and brother. If his “surge” doesn’t pan out, Fred will likely suffer a sort of a demotion by his family and the rest of the PNACers
-AF
Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
March 22nd, 2008 at 6:17 pmI’d like to point out that Mike Myers was hilarious as Kagan in “Austin Powers.”
Oops. I’m being corrected. The character’s name was actually “Fat Bastard.”
My bad.
March 22nd, 2008 at 8:50 pm“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right”.
March 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 amWho knows more , the general who was over there or some probable draft dodger , I mean deferment. Once again the REICH does not know which side of it`s mouth to speak from.
March 23rd, 2008 at 1:32 am——
ralph the wonder llama Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
How come when Petraeus said what Chimpy wanted him to say, the neocons were falling all over themselves to praise his first-hand knowledge, but now that his first-hand observations are somewhat, shall we say, inconvenient, the lard-butt on wingnut welfare knows better?
——
For the same reason libs trashed Petraeus when they disagreed with him but use him as the authority when they agree with him? ;)
upright hussein left
March 23rd, 2008 at 2:19 amHow can ANYONE give any credence to these pasty-faced cowards who have no idea what military life or service is about? These guys have no idea what military tactics, strategy or operational planning involves, yet they are considered “experts” because they have an Ivy League pedigree but no practical experience?
March 24th, 2008 at 8:38 am