Turn off the lights!
By on Mar 29th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Turn off the lights!
Tonight at 8:00 PM in your own local time, turn off your lights for one hour to participate in a global statement about climate change:
Earth Hour was created by WWF [World Wildlife Fund] in Sydney, Australia in 2007, and in one year has grown from an event in one city to a global movement. In 2008, millions of people, businesses, governments and civic organizations in nearly 200 cities around the globe will turn out for Earth Hour. More than 100 cities across North America will participate, including the US flagships–Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix and San Francisco and Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.
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Gee, I wonder if Bush plans to turn off the lights at the White House? /sarc
March 29th, 2008 at 10:13 amThanks for the heads up! cloggedmessinhismind says
Don’t forget to start up your Hummer, turn on the lights and all the accessories for the hour as well.
March 29th, 2008 at 10:14 amprogressinourminds Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am
note the fouth-grader and his fantasies.
March 29th, 2008 at 10:15 amI already have all fluorescent bulbsin my house. And fridge is set to warmest seting and I dont have a TV, only computers. So Im good. I dont keep lots of lights on during the day anyway.
March 29th, 2008 at 10:16 amway to be on top of it, TP…
i asked for this yesterday morning on FAST… some early info would’ve
greatly facillitaed better planning… and had more eyes…
ah well… “better late than never”… thanks!
March 29th, 2008 at 10:22 am5. we have all fluorescent lights throught out our home also. It was a tremendous savings not only in money but in energy.
Kudos to Sydney Australia. It is a great day when we can save that much energy. I hope more large US cities participate.
March 29th, 2008 at 10:25 amThis is great! I run a lot of stuff off of solar panels, lights, computer, etc.
I’m hoping the average person might find the elimination of excess light and noise refreshing.
Do we have to turn off our monitors too?
March 29th, 2008 at 10:31 amNevar think of all the fun you can have in the dark! Candles work great too. I wish I had solar panels.
March 29th, 2008 at 10:44 amJust keep a flashlight handy in case Cheney tries to attack us again…
March 29th, 2008 at 10:46 am… or thugs…
it occurred to me that this should include some tips for
neighborhood watches also…
bad people can take advantage of good things…
March 29th, 2008 at 10:48 amThanks for the heads up! I’ll be sure to turn on all my lights in my 4000 sq ft house, and my 5000 sq ft office complex.
Better not, or those islamofascists will be sneaking in your back door…
March 29th, 2008 at 10:48 amIt is always a good thing to remind people of the importance of conservation and preservation of resources. However, this whole “climate change” hysteria is absolutely retarded. The climate has been changing on this planet for 4.5 Billion years. The climate was changing long before humans and it will be changing for long after humans are extinct. This whole “fighting climate change” is the most retarded thing in history…and there were a lot of retarded things in history. Trying to stop climate change is like trying to stop the sunrise. Yes, environmental protection and resource preservation is important but “combating climate change” is intellectually dishonest. Just stop it!
March 29th, 2008 at 10:58 amthinkingman Says: Just stop it!
March 29th, 2008 at 10:58 am
If one were to do a little backtracking, I’m certain the phrases “fighting climate change” and “combating climate change” are part of the shriekings of the climate change deniers.
Nothing in the post suggests combat, fighting, or conflict:
“…turn off your lights for one hour to participate in a global statement about climate change:
Agreed that the earth’s climate has always, and will continue, to change. It usually changes rather slowly. If one looks at the imprint humans have made on the environment in the last 200 years, balanced with human history as a whole, it’s rather frighteningly apparent we are out of control.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:06 amSo how does it feel like to be a pawn of the petrochemical industry?
March 29th, 2008 at 11:11 amThis whole “fighting climate change” is the most retarded thing in history…and there were a lot of retarded things in history.
Well, Christianity comes to mind…
March 29th, 2008 at 11:12 amIs it me or is Thing Progress reposting chain emails?
March 29th, 2008 at 11:13 amYes, environmental protection and resource preservation is important but “combating climate change” is intellectually dishonest. Just stop it!
How about “combatting the effects of climate change? Or is that a fantasy, as well?
March 29th, 2008 at 11:14 amI know this is supposed to make a “statement”, but to me it’s just bizarre. The official ads tell me to send in my videos of doing it, etc etc.
So turning off a light for an hour is great… but during that time I should be recording this through a camera that’s either plugged in or using likely horribly corrosive batteries. Then I should go onto a computer, have that spend time converting the video and then upload it somewhere.
By the time I’m done I’ve basically negated any actual difference this could have made.
Again, I know this is just supposed to make a statement to someone, but you know, I think I’ll just make sure I turn off lights when I leave and other such things in my daily life. I don’t need this show of “solidarity” to make me care about this stuff.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:16 amThe retard who wrote the verse:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:16 am“And God gave man dominion over the Earth”
is another.
progressinourminds Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Thanks for the heads up! I’ll be sure to turn on all my lights in my 4000 sq ft house, and my 5000 sq ft office complex.
Someone’s exaggerating their lemonade stand and rusty double-wide.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:16 amSomebody check out the White House and Blair House tonight between 8 and 9 pm.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:17 amI’m all for turning out the lights for an hour, saving energy, saving the planet but heard on the news a few nights back that the compact fluorescent bulbs (spiral bulbs) contain mercury and should not be thrown into the trash and if broken need costly professional clean up. I’m wondering if this was put out by the anti-believers or is it really the case.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:19 ammargerine: By the time I’m done I’ve basically negated any actual difference this could have made.
Again, I know this is just supposed to make a statement to someone, but you know, I think I’ll just make sure I turn off lights when I leave and other such things in my daily life. I don’t need this show of “solidarity” to make me care about this stuff.
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Thank you!
March 29th, 2008 at 11:20 amTawdry Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:19 am
“..the compact fluorescent bulbs (spiral bulbs) contain mercury and should not be thrown into the trash and if broken need costly professional clean up. I’m wondering if this was put out by the anti-believers or is it really the case.”
It’s real, my electric company is a rural co-operative, and has a recycling program for the compact fluorescents
March 29th, 2008 at 11:23 amThatsNotFunny Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Is it me or is Thing Progress reposting chain emails?
Hey wingnut, raise your phony concern on your own blob.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:23 am22. Tawdry-Yes it is true. That is the downside. Now the question is, all the energy that is saved by using them weighted against the disposal of them. Just like motor oil they should have a recycling program for them. Our city has a great recycling program for everything but those bulbs.
I still use them myself because of all the energy they save. Our city even gives them out in our community to help save energy.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:35 am“So how does it feel like to be a pawn of the petrochemical industry?”
Exactly what I expected. Funny how hysterical sheep like “thetoonguy” love to demonize anyone who doesn’t follow their propaganda.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:38 amI think doing this once-per-day has a much greater effect than Bush’s three-week move up of DST. In my opinion, that was a stupid idea.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:44 amOK genius… how is “combating the effects of climate change” different from “combating climate change”? I’m sure you’re the “climate change” authority.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:45 amMcWars Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:44 am
I think doing this once-per-day has a much greater effect than Bush’s three-week move up of DST. In my opinion, that was a stupid idea.
A pain in the neck stupid idea, requiring many hours of time for IT people reprogramming and patching.
Other than some specialty bulbs next to the bathroom mirror, all the bulbs in my place are CFB’s and I’ve had them in place nearly two years without a replacement.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:53 amhere – don’t argue with a flat-earther…
check this out – whatcha think?
US to propose sweeping new powers for Fed: report
AFP – 1 hour ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) – President George W. Bush’s administration will propose sweeping new oversight powers for the Federal Reserve in a bid to avoid calamities like the current subprime crisis, The New York Times reported Saturday.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i8N2D1lK8UcNo1Uf3a5qPhadLtSQ
“… the final Bush Coup is coming up next week.” -l.a.confidential @ C&L
my first reaction was “oh crap” too… … eh?
March 29th, 2008 at 11:53 amthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am
“I’m sure you’re the “climate change” authority.”
That’s right, I am.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:55 amThink about it.
But you libs want the government to control everything. You’re progressive, aren’t you? What’s the problem?
March 29th, 2008 at 11:57 amthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Actually, if looked at the SCIENCE and FACTS, you’d see that climate changes at varying rates… stable for times, then dramatic shifts. These changes occur mostly as a result of solar activity. But that doesn’t fit into your neat little, Al Gore world… so you have to demonize anyone presents reality.
Actually, if you looked at the science and facts (by 98% of reputable scientists, not the 2% of energy company shills), you’d see that human-caused climate change is here. You may only see a few changes here and there, but your grandchildren will definitely be noticing the difference.
I’m sure they’ll be so proud to know you were among the denial sheep.
And you call yourself the “thinkingman.” Funny…
March 29th, 2008 at 11:59 amTalk about demonizing anyone who doesn’t follow the propaganda…
March 29th, 2008 at 12:01 pmshrinkingman Says…
“…to demonize anyone (sic) presents reality…”
“…anyone who doesn’t follow their propaganda…”
“…“climate change” authority…”
We’re not like that, you are confusing us with your programmers. We are real people who don’t care if you are different. Unplug from whatever it is you are plugged into, try to break the addiction of having to be programmed.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pmThink about it.
Don’t bother, Nevar. No point in trying to get a Right Wing Authoritarian to think for itself.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:05 pmJust trying to be the nice guy…
March 29th, 2008 at 12:08 pmPlease site where you obtained your statistics… See, I deal in reality, you like to make-up your “facts”. You are hysterical. I have absolutely no stake in any energy company. You are a perfect example of the typical, childish liberal who can’t win an argument on merits, so you turn to making-up “facts” and demonizing anyone who disagrees with you.
You are a perfect example of.. if you repeat something enough times, it becomes the truth, even if it’s not actually the truth.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:08 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:38 am
“So how does it feel like to be a pawn of the petrochemical industry?”
Exactly what I expected. Funny how hysterical sheep like “thetoonguy” love to demonize anyone who doesn’t follow their propaganda.
How predictable. The right is full of pawns like this. No wonder they can’t win a war against a tiny desert country.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:12 pmI can cite that there is a site off shore in Cape Cod Bay where a few rocks were above the waterline by about 2 inches at low tide, they are no longer visible, even at neap tide.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pmMcDonalds is one of the sponsors that is going to participate in Earth Hour.
Does that mean that they are not going to produce artitery clogging food for that hour of lights off??? That would be a huge life saver if they participated everyday.
Sorry, I had an epiphany….
March 29th, 2008 at 12:15 pmOK Webster, cite
March 29th, 2008 at 12:16 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
I am an independent thinker. I base my opinion on evidence and facts. No one determines my thought process but me.”
We can see that you never let the facts stand in the way of your fantasies. Your thinking is independent of any information. Good for you, moron.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:16 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
OK Webster, cite”
Like I said, a moron.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:17 pmHey thinking man, go and sit on an Antarctic ice shelf.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:18 pmthinkingman
March 29th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Here’s your reality. Read the whole thing.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:18 pmOK “freedom lover” please point out what my fantasies are?
March 29th, 2008 at 12:18 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
You are a perfect example of.. if you repeat something enough times, it becomes the truth, even if it’s not actually the truth.
Skunk can’t smell itself. :-D
Here’s a link to the site where I found that excellent report.
Now, I’d like to see a link to where YOU get your information.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:20 pmHey “Tawdry”, ever hear of an ice age? Climate changes… stop feeling guilty about it.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:20 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
OK “freedom lover” please point out what my fantasies are?”
Well, your nym, to start with. Your avoidance of thinking is what characterizes you and the wingnut fantasy brigade. You are a kneejerk follower, ruled by fear and ignorance. Your main fantasy is that you know anything about the real world, but you have already destroyed that illusion.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:21 pmWell I think it’s cool. I have some friends coming over tonight at 7:30pm, time enough for me to give them a drink and for us to light some candles and go outside to hopefully see a better-than-normal night sky.
There’s certainly nothing wrong with raising awareness about energy consumption and light pollution – not to mention enjoying a shared experience with a good part of the planet!
March 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pmDon’t bother him with facts. Facts are liberal, and must be denied.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:23 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am
But you libs want the government to control everything. You’re progressive, aren’t you? What’s the problem?
“Libruls” want the government to properly repair what your party has damaged. As you should know, private initiatives and individual freedom come with responsibility. But since the government is being run by conservatives, accountability has been takig a back seat to the private sector gaining more power over the people.
Nobody has the right to scam others. Nobody has the right to discriminate. The government must ensure that more people, not limited to white males like myself, benefit from private initiatives. It should not be a socially monopolized game.
As for global warming, the scientists have a majority consensus: The threats are real and they are damaging. Global warming isn’t TP’s finding.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:23 pmCould “thinkingman” be off thinking…?
Nahhhh…
March 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pmHi Zooey,
‘thinkingman’ is only here to recite the talking points Mark Levine has been shouting at him lately.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pmLibs..Libs..Libs..(head explodes)
March 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pmWorth the read, and from a great climate blog:
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/03/16/the-coming-global-cooling/
What’s so difficult about conservation? The Earth’s climate will always warm and cool, no matter what we do or don’t do.
The climate always swings like a pendulum seeking equilibrium.
Conservatives just don’t like the idea of Liberals finally profiting from a contrary means of effecting the environment. PERIOD.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pmWow! You mean CO2 rises AFTER global warming?
March 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pmhttp://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.com/co2_temperature.html
McWars Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Hi Zooey,
‘thinkingman’ is only here to recite the talking points Mark Levine has been shouting at him lately.
I guess that’s what counts for “thinking” in TrollieWorld ™.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pmemotionalman:
I am an independent thinker. I base my opinion on evidence and facts. No one determines my thought process but me.
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That’s the scary part.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pmthinkingman
March 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
That’s not a scientific study.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:37 pmNevar Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
emotionalman:
I am an independent thinker. I base my opinion on evidence and facts. No one determines my thought process but me.
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That’s the scary part.
The scary part is that he believes it!
March 29th, 2008 at 12:39 pmIsn’t that close to the definition of a sociopath?
March 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pmCares only for it’s own point of view, and has glaring authority issues.
thinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Wow! You mean CO2 rises AFTER global warming?
http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.com/co2_temperature.html
Oh, well, if a guy who majored in medieval history and has spent his life producing tv shows writes it, it must be true. Much better source than a website full of climatologists.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pmNevar Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Isn’t that close to the definition of a sociopath?
Cares only for it’s own point of view, and has glaring authority issues.
I’d say psychopath, but he isn’t the least bit charming…
March 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pmHey McWars, I don’t listen to Mark Levine. But you prove my point… “progressives” seek to intimidate and shame anyone who doesn’t buy their populist propaganda I’m not a Republican. I’m not a Conservative. I’m an independent minded American who doesn’t follow like a sheep. Did you know that Soviet Communists also proudly called themselves “progressive”? Coincidence? I think not.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:49 pmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/climate_change/1026375.stm
March 29th, 2008 at 12:53 pmOh well, campaigning against global climate change has got to be more important than saving a few buck on one’s energy bill by using less, right? (/sarc off)
March 29th, 2008 at 12:53 pmThinkingman…Guilty? Not moi. What for? For being on the correct side on global warming? You’re just po’d that Al Gore won the peace prize when you were hoping it would be your boy Bush for starting a war. Oh that’s right, they don’t give out peace prizes for starting wars. Hope your grandchildren and great-grandchildren remember you kindly.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:54 pmIs “non-thinkingman” ignoring my links? I think he is!
Too many charts, studies, and PROOF, I suppose…
March 29th, 2008 at 12:56 pmZooey, he’s probably just sad because nobody here seems to like him.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:58 pmFirst cities go dark for Earth Hour
WWF Thailand said the lights out campaign in Bangkok saved 73.34 megawatts of electricity, which would have produced 45.8 tons of carbon dioxide.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/29/lights.out.ap/index.html
Let’s get into the spirit! Get those candles ready.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pmTheToonGuy, it really seems to matter to him, which is odd for such an independent thinker.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pmNonthinkingman = nonthingingmoron & reichwing tool.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:03 pm‘”This provides an extraordinary symbol and an indication that we can be part of the solution” to global warming, Australian Environment Minister Peter Garrett told Sky News television, standing across the harbor from the dark silhouette of the Opera House.
Garrett said government offices and national monuments around the country took part in Earth Hour.’
Does anyone remember the band Midnight Oil? It’s so great to see Peter Garrett (lead singer) as an Environment Minister! He’s been sounding the alarm for decades.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:04 pmThe point in my original post was that the term “climate change” is intellectually dishonest. But I think it’s interesting that so many collectivists enjoy piling-on in the personal attacks.
How is it that Bush is my boy? Does it make you feel warm and fuzzy inside making me responsible for the war in Iraq? Does it give you that “holier than thou” feeling? thought so
March 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm“Buckie Boy”: You are quite a heroic and brave young lad on the computer. It must make you feel a superior individual to call someone, who you’ve never met, names. Your parents must be so proud.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:10 pmHow cute! Now “non-thinkingman” is playing the back-pedaling victim card.
Somebody call a Waaaambulance!
March 29th, 2008 at 1:12 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
“Buckie Boy”: You are quite a heroic and brave young lad on the computer. It must make you feel a superior individual to call someone, who you’ve never met, names. Your parents must be so proud.”
Unlike yours. who must be thoroughly ashamed that they loosed such a sanctimonious, ignorant fool on the world.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pmThe fact that the planet is warming is undeniable.
Getting to the bottom of WHY it is happening would seem to be wise considering that the effects are already being seen and most of them seem to be deleterious.
If the warming can be slowed down it would give the residents of this little blue planet time to adjust, cope and hell – survive!
March 29th, 2008 at 1:19 pmI’m no victim. I find the anger and hatred quite amusing. I also find it interesting how I became evil in your minds because I question the term “climate change”. I must be evil if I dare to disagree with the conventional liberal, oh I’m sorry- progressive, wisdom.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pm“Again, I know this is just supposed to make a statement to someone, but you know, I think I’ll just make sure I turn off lights when I leave and other such things in my daily life. I don’t need this show of “solidarity” to make me care about this stuff.”
With 6.6 billion people on the planet it’s hard to know just how many people support doing something about climate change. I think the show of “solidarity” is an indicator of what we can achieve on a global level to save energy. We certainly can’t trust on our elected officials to be our mouthpieces, most of us are on a completely different page.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I’m no victim. I find the anger and hatred quite amusing. I also find it interesting how I became evil in your minds because I question the term “climate change”. I must be evil if I dare to disagree with the conventional liberal, oh I’m sorry- progressive, wisdom.
______________
Lemme see… ‘thoughtlessman’ uses the derogatory term “retarded” three times in his first post on the thread to ridicule, in effect, anyone who dares disagree w/ HIS opinion of “climate change”. He, or she, then spins like a top and cries “Victim!” when s/he gets the push back he begged for.
CLASSIC troll performance.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:26 pm“Buckie Boy”: I rest my case.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:26 pmthinkingman
March 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Of course you’re a victim. The mere fact that you perceive anger from the other commenters proves it. We’re actually amused by you.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:26 pmI wasn’t calling people retarded. I was calling the concept of trying to “combat climate change” retarded. read again. My point is that it distracts from the point of environmental protection and resource preservation and it’s intellectually dishonest. But you’d rather head straight into the us vs. them personal attacks because it makes you feel superior.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pmDoes anyone remember the band Midnight Oil? It’s so great to see Peter Garrett (lead singer) as an Environment Minister! He’s been sounding the alarm for decades.
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Oh my goodenss, mary, I’ve been going to google Garrett for a year or better, after finding Diesel and Dust on CD.
I knew he had gone into politics, and wondered what he was up to.
Environment Minister! Awesome!
I work with predominately native American firecrews, Diesel and Dust is some of our favorite road music on the bus.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:35 pm“I wasn’t calling people retarded. I was calling the concept of trying to “combat climate change” retarded.”
March 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pmThe point I was trying to make earlier, emotingman, is that you are totally hung up on the “combat” thing.
Quit fighting against everything.
Not everything is a confrontation or a battle.
We’re trying to co-operate. With each other. With the environment. With the earth.
thinkingman
March 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Now you’re “minder-reader man?”
Read what Nevar said at 1:39 p.m., and then be gone.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:42 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I wasn’t calling people retarded. I was calling the concept of trying to “combat climate change” retarded. read again.
______________
What a crock of Cheney. You showed up and IMMEDIATELY started making insulting comments. Now you’re just trying to BS us by claiming the use of the word “retarded” wasn’t meant as an insult. Pretty f-in’ weinie…
No, I don’t need to insult you to feel superior. Everything you’ve done since showing up is CLASSIC troll double talk.
1. First, issue blanket condemations of ANYONE and EVERYONE who dares disagree w/ YOUR view of the world (retarded…).
2. Next, claim victimization because people here dared to push back against your deliberately inflammatory comments.
3. Now, you claim you didn’t say what you said and suggest we’re not smart enough to comprehend the brilliance of your original post.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!
Point, set, and match… but t’anks fer playin’.
Whack-a-Troll™… the Sport of Kings!
March 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pmNevar: Once again, you missed the point. I’m not hung-up on combat or fight. The point is that the climate always has and always will change. Trying to stop it is impossible. The term “Climate Change” as something we must stop is my point.
emotingman? Just can’t stop the name-calling can you? That’s a sure sign of immaturity.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:50 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Whack-a-Troll™… the Sport of Kings!
The newest Olympic event!!
March 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pmInteresting! So because I’m not a part of your “clique”, I must be evil.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmActually, the planet stopped warming about 10 years ago. Here’s an article about it:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pmhttp://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html
thinkingman
March 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Hun, you’re not thinking.
Do some research, ok? Jennifer Marohasy, the interviewee of the article you posted, works for the Institute of Public affairs, which is funded by corporations such as Monsanto, Philip Morris, Esso Australia (Exxon), Shell, Western Mining Corporation, etc.
Nice try.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pmNongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC)
March 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pmhttp://www.heartland.org/article.cfm?artId=22835
emotingman: the term “Climate Change” as something we must stop is my point.
emotingman? Just can’t stop the name-calling can you? That’s a sure sign of immaturity.
So? Pick another phrase if you don’t like that one.
You didn’t like “global warming”, so we agreed to call it “climate change”. Now you don’t like that.
How about “environmental correction”, is that a little more soothing?
Sorry about the name calling, I’m simply thinking about where to place you in my troll lexicon, as you didn’t quite fit in the sentient category.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pmthinkingman
March 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. is a shill for big oil and big tobacco.
**yawn**
I’m getting bored.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pmI’ll bet the lights will be on at Steve Doocey’s place.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pm(at his place but not in his mind – there’s no one home there)
Planting one native tree absorbs over a ton of harmful greenhouse gases over its lifetime (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) Or you can donate $10.00 to NWP and they will plant 3 trees.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pmHow do you know what I think of the term “global warming”?
You stopped using the term “global warming” because it was clear the globe was no longer warming. So you decided to switch to another alarmist term, “climate change”.
I’m starting to understand why you’re taking my post so personally. You have taken ownership of the term “climate change” and thus, take my criticism of the term personally. You took my criticism as a personal attack and your feeble, fragile mind was damaged.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pmGo have a glass of milk and a cookie.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmA convenient tactic of a small-minded person is to demonize someone with whom they disagree.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pmlol
March 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Interesting! So because I’m not a part of your “clique”, I must be evil.
No, you’re just a self-aggrandizing, egotistical troublemaker who has no point to make, but needs some kind of attention. You’re realy far too inconsequential to be evil, and too stupid to make any sense. If you were all you think you are, you wouldn’t bother with this site, because you’d be President Of The World. Instead, you’re a vacuous twit. We get it.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pmDuring that hour, lets start the next baby boon!!!!! For those who are eligable..lol. Or at least, everybody F*&^*. Happy Lights Out.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
A convenient tactic of a small-minded person is to demonize someone with whom they disagree.
________________
This one STILL doesn’t understand its own words. Take a look in the mirror, dum-dum. You came thru the door taunting people. Your FIRST comment was a deliberate insult. And here you are, STILL desperately trying to play the Victim Card™…. simply CLASSIC troll technique.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:45 pmfreedom lover: A convenient tactic of a small-minded person is to demonize someone with whom they disagree. You must also be invested in the alarmist “climate change” term and gotten your little feelings hurt.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pmOK, I’m bored with you nanny-state pussies. I’m going to go burn down a forest and dump oil in a river.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:51 pmBuh-bye, troll.
March 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
thinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
thinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Who is he talking to? I know he’s not talking to me, because I did a little quick research into his links, and quickly debunked them. ;)
March 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmOooh, the poor little baby has run off, needing more attention. By, littleman.
March 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
OK, I’m bored with you nanny-state pussies. I’m going to go burn down a forest and dump oil in a river.
Cool. The dumb ones can never keep their mouths shut. :D
March 29th, 2008 at 3:22 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Please site where you obtained your statistics… See, I deal in reality, you like to make-up your “facts”. You are hysterical. I have absolutely no stake in any energy company. You are a perfect example of the typical, childish liberal who can’t win an argument on merits, so you turn to making-up “facts” and demonizing anyone who disagrees with you.
You are a perfect example of.. if you repeat something enough times, it becomes the truth, even if it’s not actually the truth.
Yup. Your hero Shrub calls it “catapulting the propaganda.”
March 29th, 2008 at 3:25 pmthinkingman Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
OK, I’m bored with you nanny-state pussies. I’m going to go burn down a forest and dump oil in a river.
Don’t forget to shut your computer down and turn off the lights when you go upstairs.
March 29th, 2008 at 3:25 pmHmm, I don’t get it. We have black history months, AIDS awareness weeks, world water days, world banana days and all the earth gets is an hour?!
Oh, the ingratitude, the ingratitude….
March 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pmYou have to admit… that was a pretty good troll exhibition.
Didn’t have too many moves, but the ones it knew, it had ‘em down cold.
Kinda like a one or two trick pony, but what a couple of tricks, huh?
March 29th, 2008 at 3:42 pmThe earth is actually in a cooling stage.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:01 pmYou Libs would like to be cold and “in the dark” from the sounds of it.
You all are already “in the dark”!
The name changes but the troll remains the same.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pmYa got that right Shayne.
No mistaking that sneering, condescending attitude.
Is it a drag troll?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pmAppropriate name for your group
March 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pmThe Republic of Stupidity
not name calling, just pointing out the truth.
Now, get off the computer, you people, and get out there and hug a tree!
Remember the days when kids would get on CB radios just to try to be annoying?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pmNo, my father wasn’t a low-life with a CB radio. Hey, aren’t you missing a NASCAR race right now on TV?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:22 pmeastmorenci Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
________________
Riiiight… keep tellin’ yerself that, li’l feller.
Jes’ like that other horse’s Cheney who was here earlier, you come thru the door insulting people, then try to play the Victim Card™.
You need to buy an up-dated Troll Handbook, learn some new moves.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:22 pmLet him rant for a while, dbadass. Mummy will be home soon from her second job, the one she works to help support him, and she’ll kick him off the dial-up for the rest of the afternoon.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:24 pmYou must also be invested in the alarmist “climate change” term and gotten your little feelings hurt.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:24 pmeast morenci?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:26 pmHave you been down there swimming in the copper pit?
Or do you just work there?
Back under the double wide, Li’l Eastie. You know the rules… you must be quiet the adults are talking “grow-up business”.
All your imaginary friends are waiting for you. It’ll be such a party…
March 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pmadults are talking “grow-up business”.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:33 pmhuh?
eastmorenci Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
No, my father wasn’t a low-life with a CB radio. Hey, aren’t you missing a NASCAR race right now on TV?
—-
March 29th, 2008 at 4:34 pmNo I don’t have television. Sorry about your father
All your imaginary friends are waiting for you. It’ll be such a party…
??? I don’t smoke the same brand YOU do!
March 29th, 2008 at 4:34 pmdbadass,
Don’t have a TV, huh? Trying to give the impression you are “above” that sort of thing and only partake of the “enlightenment” of NPR and liberal trash blogs like this one?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:37 pmOh, how special. Now, hurry to your living room and turn on your TV. All libs have a TV so they can get their talking points from CNN and NBC. Don’t deny it.
c’est moronci:
“No, my father wasn’t a low-life with a CB radio.”
He talked on the 8-track player.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pmHe’s not very good at this, is he, guys?
This is what happens when the RNC out-sources its trolling to the cheapest contractor.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:42 pmObama- “My friends, we live in the greatest country on earth.? Please join me as we try to change it.”
This is the kind of brain-child you Libs want running the country?
Or Hitlary? Pathetic!
March 29th, 2008 at 4:42 pmeastmorenci:
March 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pmyou are making many poor assumptions. Would you like to discuss anything or just flail about?
“All libs…”
Ah yes, the “one-size-fits-all”, meaningless generalization.
This one is all sharp edges, just like a bowling ball.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pmYou can’t address the issues. The only thing you Libs can do is attack, because you don’t have arguments to back up your assertions.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:46 pmThere is really no global warming.
You don’t realize the idiocy of a Hilary Clinton presidency.
Obama isn’t qualified to lead a Boy Scout troup, let alone a country.
Go ahead, instead of attacking me, tell me why these are not true statements.
Awfully quiet in this room now.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pmSince this thread is about climate science, shall we agree to discuss that?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pmYou could always turn on the TV
March 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pmYou could always turn on the TV
This is your response ?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pmTell you why they’re not true statements?
First off, you can’t disprove a negative, rhetorically speaking.
Second, your comments are irrational hyperbole. They can’t be proven, or disproved, because they don’t make any sense.
You’re… simply… an overblown fool. You haven’t made a single MEANINGFUL statement since you staggered onto the thread. You showed up hurling insults. You’ve tried playing the Victim Card™, and now you’re just flat-out going to silly insults. You can’t be “debated” because you don’t know how to debate.
You’re just a self-important flake who wants attention, and that’s about it.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pmdbadass,
Point me to ONE scientific study on climate studies that prove Global Warming. Here is your chance to shine.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pmRepublic,
You say YOU CAN’T PROVE THERE IS GLOBAL WARMING?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pmthen, you admit, there is not Global Warming
Flake?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:55 pmThat’s name calling.
I asked you to show me proof that your argument that there is global warming really is true. So, instead of calling names, show me the scientific study.
Give me the URL. It must be on the web, right. Or give me the title of the document.
Second, your comments are irrational hyperbole.
No, you are just trying to avoid the question, because you cannot backup your belief.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:57 pmYou’re… simply… an overblown fool.
AGain, name calling.
The offer still stands…point me to the scientific study that proves there is Global Warming taking place.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pmThat is sort of a softball. Science understands that 100 percent certainty is impossible in complex systems. Now if you’d like to mellow out and have some type of civil discussion of your ideas and the basis of them, we are all ears. You made a very declaritive statement earlier, nut I noticed that you declared that there was no “global warming” shall we interpret that to mean that there is no abnormalities appearing in the overall climate data or just with regard to rising temperatures in the atmosphere?
March 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pmIt gets quieter.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pmShow me the proof that gives AL GORE or any of you the argument that Global Warming exists. Or we will have to all understand that it is made up and you are all just running with it–not having any facts to back it up.
I ask you again, instead of trying to back-pedal, stand up for your stance on Global Warming and show me the studies.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pmObama- “My friends, we live in the greatest country on earth.? Please join me as we try to change it.”
A TRUE Patriot, is a LOVER of his country , who REBUKES and does not Excuse its SINS.
Frederick Douglas
So Eastmorenci…if you are claiming that America, or any country, is without SIN…I’d be interested in your evidence.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pmAbnormalities? Like the snow falling in Seattle here at the end of March? The heavy snows of the winter we just went through. Do you mean that this is abnormal in a climate that is going through Global Warming?
March 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm“My friends, we live in the greatest country on earth.? Please join me as we try to change it.”
Hmmm, explain that one.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pmSo Eastmorenci…if you are claiming that America, or any country, is without SIN…I’d be interested in your evidence
Obviously, when you look at the statements of Obama’s pastor of some 20 plus years, you can see there are bad people in this country. Jeremiah Wright, the racist Al Sharpton, the list goes on and on.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pmeastmorenci Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
You could always turn on the TV
This is your response ?
yes
March 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pmYou could always turn on the TV
This is your response ?
yes
—– Bold argument. I take it you are a Liberal blogger also?
March 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pmPlease… somebody turn this shrill, self-righteous nut’s lights out for him.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pmRepublic
This is your contribution to the discussion?
It is more name calling, not supportive of any stand on the topic of Global Warming. Is this proof of my earlier assertion that when Libs do not have facts to support their claims they resort to name calling? It appears you and others of you have proven my point.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pmI will leave you folks, so that you can discuss the latest Liberal talking points handed out by CNN, NPR and Randi Rhodes.
You are all very misguided. Try to study the facts and learn. Rather than sit back and call names.
Try to have facts to support the things you blurt out. Re-read this thread. It shows that name calling is your only weapon, you haven’t got facts to support your opinions.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pmI believe c’est moroncii proves the theorem that when the sleep of hibernating creatures is disrupted by climate change, they wake up cranky and disoriented, and lash out at the first thing that crosses their field of vision.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pmeastmorenci you are mistaken reread and see the respect I have shown toward you
March 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pmSweet Jesus H Snark… somebody PLEASE get that greasy little twit by the scruff of its neck and try banging some sense into its pointed little head.
It came thru the door hurling insults, indulged in meaningless hyperbole and generalizations, and then gratified itself in front of the women and children.
Wow… what a putrid performance.
We gotta get some better locks on the doors. Things like that are getting into the building WAY TOO easily.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pmGeez, I never showed it the least bit of respect, dbadass.
Its first comment was a silly insult. There was NOTHING to take seriously there.
It never said anything WORTH debating. It was just looking for a fight and an opportunity to gratify its animal urges in public… which it managed to do.
It’s gonna be hard to get those stains outta the rugs…
March 29th, 2008 at 5:23 pmMore name calling?
Thought it was safe to continue the name calling when not confronted by a request for the facts any longer. Republic, again…stop the name calling and give me facts…
Nevar…climate change…what facts do you have to back it up?
Or do you just want to sit here and make snide comments?
The both of you. You are doing just what you seem to complain about — name calling and sniping.
When asked to back up your arguments on a topic, you become quiet, or call names…nothing factual you can point to to back up your arguments.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:25 pmdbadass,
With respect, show me some facts to back up the assertion that there is indeed Global Warming.
Anyone?
March 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pmThe discussion was not about global warming, it has always been about the human component of rapid global climate change. eastmoronci is simply an idiot wingnut who has little or no understanding of English or science. A blowhard cracker with nothing to back him up. as if obama or clinton wouldn’t be thousands of times more capable of improving the lot of ordinary Americans than the traitorous old, cancer-ridden, adulterer and thief McStain, who has both hands out to Big Oil, and his lips wrapped around Bush’s tiny, flaccid dick..
March 29th, 2008 at 5:28 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqss0y3I12o
March 29th, 2008 at 5:29 pmWhat climate change?
What factual scientific reports do you have to back that up? Freedom, I am asking you, since you like to call people wingnuts…prove that YOU are not some wingnut, by giving some factual reporting on your assertion.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:30 pm50,000 respected scientists not in the pay of Big Oil agree that humans are contributing to rapid global climate change, but eastmoronci doesn’t bother to do any research. Useless, as usual, ignorant, as usual. The standard brainless rightwing tool.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pmAnd the filthy, lurid comments don’t help your argument or image, freedom.
Be adult about this and start giving factual evidence instead of rude comments.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pmYou claim 50,000 scientists. Show me that report or ONE such report. Freedom–you stated this, so you show us ONE of those 50,000 opinions in writing.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pmeastmoronci is far to mesmerized by his delusions of adequacy to read or understand the reams and volumes of data on rapid climate change and what it is doing to the Earth already, never mind into the future. I will not do his homework, because it falls on deaf ears and a brain that never is used. Wingnuts are programmed, not educated, and eastmoronci is proof.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:33 pmBe adult about this and start giving factual evidence instead of rude comments.”
After you, wingnut.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pmFreedom, proves what I am saying. Research cannot be done on reports that do not exist. If you have these reports — show them. If you know of the proof, enlighten all of us. Instead, read Freedoms posts, name calling. That is what you resort to when you cannot back up your claim. I am giving you the opportunity. Instead of smart aleck remarks–show us the proof of what you say.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:37 pmOtherwise you show just what you have worthless commentary, no facts to back it up.
eastmorenci Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I will leave you folks…
___________
Back again, and so soon. In addition to being an incoherent fool, it’s a liar too.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pmWingnut…this is your argument? This is the sum total of your argument, your proof to your claims?
Obviously, your claims are baseless.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pmeastmorenci,
March 29th, 2008 at 5:42 pmI think your knowledge of global climate science might be best put to use advising the US military strategists that are currently long term planning for the potential “disruptions” which are anticipated to arise rather than freaking out about it here. I hope Roberta helped you work down from your agression spiral. I don’t mean to overstep any boundaries but I think if you try to come in with fewer guns blazing in all sorts of weird directions folks might be more inclined to consider your ideas
Back to give you another chance to prove ANY of your claims. Which you have not proven. Therefore you must agree with me, that you are all just re-hashing talking points that you have heard, but have no facts to back it up.
Knowing this, don’t you feel that you want to go and learn and study? Or is this the way you want to operate?
Your choice, but obviously, you don’t care that you are just spouting off. No facts, no real knowledge.
That’s sad don’t you think.
OK now, make your snide comments. You don’t get it.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:43 pmeastmoronci, we see through your game. there are thousands of pages of research proving that humans are negatively affecting the global climate. if you are too lazy to go find them, then you suffer in ignorance. don’t expect everybody else to do your work for you. that’s the attitude of a spoiled little brat. as an adult, I don’t bother responding to that behavior except with scorn and disdain, because that’s all it deserves. You can live in ideological ignorance if you like, but I have no responsibility to educate you if you are too intellectually lazy to do it yourself.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:43 pmOk show me the report of the military strategists. Where did this info come from? Or is this just something you overheard in conversation?
Who among you study the situation?
Apparently you don’t.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pmshow me one of those thousands of pages you claim are out there.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pmeastmorenci Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Ok show me the report of the military strategists. Where did this info come from? Or is this just something you overheard in conversation?
Who among you study the situation?
Apparently you don’t.
go find it yourself, you lazy good-for-nothing. typical of a wingnut to want to avoid honest work. your uselessness is why we’re in the trouble we’re in. you’re a waste of carbon.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pmeastmoron, same old, same old. your have nothing. the surprising thing is that you’re proud of it. it’s the definign characteristic of wingnuts: pride in their ignorance, fear and intolerance.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:48 pmSorry eastmorenci
My kids are itching to go for a bike ride so I can only offer this but since I am sure you will be concerned that they are retired miltary and not active duty I will get back to you. Maybe you might look objectivelt into it as well. Biases are hard to put in there proper place, but I trust you will make an honest effort
http://securityandclimate.cna.org/report/
March 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pmYou are all describing yourselves! YOU HAVE NOTHING, but baseless conjecture. You have listened to talking points, have nothing to back it up and simply resort to NAME CALLING. It is obvious.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pmkilling em softly
March 29th, 2008 at 6:01 pmI understand why Mummy turns it loose w/ the dial-up all day. She’s desperately hoping it will tucker itself out by nightfall so she can get some sleep.
March 29th, 2008 at 6:04 pmc’est moronii:
Or do you just want to sit here and make snide comments?
Yes.
March 29th, 2008 at 6:52 pm‘Cept I can’t just sit here with you, I’m plastering walls.
eastmorenci Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
You are all describing yourselves! YOU HAVE NOTHING, but baseless conjecture. You have listened to talking points, have nothing to back it up and simply resort to NAME CALLING. It is obvious.
______________
Kind of an impressive performance, huh?
“baseless conjecture”… it would appear this one doesn’t even know what the phrase means.
“Obama can’t even lead a Boy Scout troop…” now, THAT’S meaningless hyperbole.
“You have listened to talking points…” Talking points? That’s what Karl Rove puts out. Gave up a little too much information there, w/ that one.
“Nothing to back it up…”? WTF??? It never said anything meaningful. There was never anything to refute.
Like I said, an impressive, but sad, performance.
March 29th, 2008 at 7:36 pmI think we should let him go now.
March 29th, 2008 at 7:46 pmdbadass Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
I think we should let him go now.
You mean, like throw him back… too small to take?
March 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pmmazda75 Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
What’s “the majority of scientist” mean?
Is the RNC off-shoring their trolling now?
Where are you, dude? West Africa? India?
If you want to be taken seriously, it helps to have basic grammar down.
Oh, and having “a real point” helps.
March 29th, 2008 at 8:04 pmmazda75 Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
While y8ou all worship the biggest loser that ever stole an election, George Bush, who can’t win a war, save a city, or protect his own country. Thanks for 9/11, mazda. Oh, and thanks for ‘06, and ‘08, and ‘10, and ‘12, and ‘14, and ‘16, etc., etc.
March 29th, 2008 at 8:11 pmHi mazda75. I’m a little tired but whatever. So what was it you wanted to say?
March 29th, 2008 at 8:23 pmTag team wacktoid trolls today.
March 29th, 2008 at 8:47 pmDid they even make mazdas in ‘75?
They must be launching their Spring 2008 offensive, Nevar.
Such nutty trolls, too. this is what happens when the RNC goes broke. They’re now hiring bums from the park, and illegals.
March 29th, 2008 at 9:14 pmmazda75 Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Don’t be such a mindless Liberals.
______________
“such a mindless Liberals”??? WTF???
What country is this thing from?
March 29th, 2008 at 9:15 pmWhat country is this thing from?
Inner Moronia
March 29th, 2008 at 9:26 pm‘night night…
March 29th, 2008 at 9:52 pm:D
These trolls don’t read the threads, do they? I cited a shitload of studies above.
Sheesh…morons.
March 29th, 2008 at 9:53 pm“So how does it feel like to be a pawn of the petrochemical industry?”
Exactly what I expected. Funny how hysterical sheep like “thetoonguy” love to demonize anyone who doesn’t follow their propaganda.
How predictable. The right is full hp f3172a battery,hp f2019 battery of pawns like this. No wonder they can’t win a war against a tiny desert country.
October 15th, 2008 at 5:17 amlights outsohbet
March 30th, 2009 at 4:41 pmBedava mp3 indir
cet
turn it off .