White House may drop insistence on telecom immunity.
White House may drop insistence on telecom immunity.
The Wall Street Journal reports:
The White House, seeking to break a months-long standoff, has signaled to Democratic lawmakers it is open to negotiation over a proposal to expand government spy powers, according to officials familiar with the conversations. [...]
Over the two-week spring recess, administration officials contacted Democratic leaders to suggest they were open to compromise on updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. “We definitely want to get it done,” said White House spokesman Tony Fratto. “We’ve had some initial conversations with Congress about the need to get FISA reform done quickly.” He added that Mr. Bush still prefers the Senate measure, which the White House negotiated with Senate Democrats. [...]
The White House’s more conciliatory posture reflects a recognition that the Bush administration’s leverage on national-security matters has slipped since this past summer, a top Republican congressional aide said. “There’s a recognition that if they’re actually going to get a product they can support, there’s going to have to be some new level of engagement,” the aide said.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
49 Responses to “White House may drop insistence on telecom immunity.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
NO COMPROMISE.
No "expansion of government spying powers" is warranted (pun intended). This administration is untrustworthy with the power it has been granted and has taken. Enough. Let's get a Democratic President and see how little interest they show in expanding executive powers.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:34 pmThis really surpises me. I bet it's a ploy of some kind.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:34 pm"administration officials contacted Democratic leaders to suggest they were open to compromise on updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."
The first thing the Dems need to demand is the adminstration definition of comprimise. Past experience shows that what the admisntration thinks is comprimise is really complete copitulation...
April 1st, 2008 at 1:35 pmNO to telecom immunity. Warrantless wiretapping is patently illegal, violating FISA, the 4th Amendment to unreasonable searches-no ifs, ands, or butts.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:35 pm"This really surpises me." The part about relaxing on the immunity stance, that is.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:35 pmWatch out Congress, it's White House CYA desperation time. They'll promise to drop it, but umm, they "misspeak" a lot, too. That's "lying" when applied to the rest of us.
Look out for a bait & switch from BushCo.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:36 pmVet:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:36 pmOf course it is. Every word out of this president and this vice president's mouth, every action they have taken, every approved statement read by an aide, every townhall, every press conference, every foreign trip, EVERYTHING they do is one ploy after another...
why does the administration keep insisting any "fix" must be done "quickly"? Congress and the nation as a whole would be much better off if everyone waits until the next Congress and a new President. FISA still exists and the Unitary Executive can still do what it claims it can do. No one (apparently) is going to overturn that apple cart.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:39 pm... be careful, dems... be very very careful...
there can be no trusting ANYthing these criminals do...
be very careful...
April 1st, 2008 at 1:40 pm.
One of the defining characteristics to what it means to be an American is the FREEDOM from a form of government that feels compelled to spy on it's citizenry, thus the Fourth Amendment; The FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY!
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS...
And so THEY(sic) lobby and debate the merits to undermining those very freedoms.
What kind of people argue to undermine American Principles, laws and Constitutional boundaries?
ANSWER: The American Government!
.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:41 pmBut, I thought we were all going to die if the Bush administration didn't get telecom immunity! Doesn't the administration's capitulation place our nation at severe risk of terrorist attack?
That was a joke.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:49 pmOf course the Bush polictical apparatus is getting apprehensive. They need to get this eavesdropping mechanism in place before the '08 election moves into full gear.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:52 pmHow can the current Administration help McCain get elected if they don't have a means by which to surveillance Democratic planning and strategy during the election?
There's a point where the Neo-Cons have to ditch their good buds the Telecoms and simply do what's most prudent for their Corporitist cause.
Forget about "compromise". The FISA law as it was written is perfectly fine. The only reason that Bush thinks it's a problem is because it requires a court to grant him authority he thinks he already has (but, in reality, he lacks.)
No compromise on this. No telecom immunity past, present, or future. Prosecute those who broke the law. (BTW, what is the statute of limitations on prosecuting the telecoms for what they did?)
FISA never needed amending in the first palce, so let whatever they've added to it expire.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:53 pmNO IMMUNITY EVER!!!!
April 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pmWayne A. Schneider Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Let's not forget why we have FISA in the first place,
The law got broken by the Nixon and had to be reinvented...
And now that the Bush broke some more laws...
Congress feels compelled to reinvent them too.
.
April 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pmGeneral Michael Mukasey in his speech last week in San Francisco said "Forget the liability" the phone companies face, Mr. Mukasey said. "We face the prospect of disclosure in open court of what they did, which is to say the means and the methods by which we collect foreign intelligence against foreign targets." Al Qaeda would love that. The cynics will call this "fear-mongering," but most Americans will want to make sure we don't miss the next terror call.
As Keith Olberman puts it:
The government knew about some phone call from a safe house in Afghanistan into the US about 9/11, before 9/11, and even though it had the same FISA courts and the same right to act against international targets in 2001 as it does now, you didn’t do anything about it? Well, this would seem to leave only two options. Either the Attorney General just admitted that the government for which he works is guilty of malfeasant complicity in the 9/11 attacks or he’s lying. I’m betting on lying. If not, somebody in Congress better put that man under oath right quick.
How uninformed does he think the American People are??? I agree NO Compromise..
April 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pmI smell a red herring, but if the Dems pull this off without retroactive immunity, it will be the single most significant accomplishment of an otherwise flaccid Congress.
It also validates the current strategy of stonewalling against the immunity provision. Perhaps this will embolden the Dems to actually stand for something--even trivialities like the Constitution of the United States.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:04 pmVet Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:34 pm
This really surpises me. I bet it’s a ploy of some kind.
_____________________________________________
I suspect it means they've managed to cover all their tracks so lawsuits won't turn up anything embarrassing. Remember it has always been their own backsides they've been protecting -- they really don't care about protecting the telecoms.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:06 pmI can't help but think that BushCo is so desperate for telcom immunity, not for their buds the telcoms, but for themselves & what might come out in lawsuits about the wiretapping, it's essential illegality, real purposes & usage, & WH culpability in same.
Congress, don't caveon this. NO IMMUNITY.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pmFreedom Rebel Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pmApril 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Thanks for posting the quote from Countdown.
I think THAT says it all! They had the tools, they heard the chatter and they chose to ignore it. Congress needs to step it up a notch now and hold Bush's feet to the fire. NO vote on this legislation until AFTER the new President is sworn in. The current Administration has had it's field day, spying on whoever they desire unchecked for far too long. Their beligerent insistence on immunity is reason enough NOT TO NEGOTIATE with the WH. They have shown absolutely NO GOOD FAITH in the negotiations and due to the testimony of many current and former Intel officials reporting that all the tools that are actually needed are currently in place. Congress should not flinch here. This Administration has shit in it's own bed too many times. Now let them lay in it.
#20 Keith summed it up perfect.
I couldn't agree with you more..let them lay in it..
April 1st, 2008 at 2:12 pmWhat kind of people argue to undermine American Principles, laws and Constitutional boundaries?
ANSWER: The American Government!
The actual answer is "traitors." Unfortunately, many of them currently reside and have power within our current government.
Regarding the administration's seeming williness to negotiate this issue, sans immunity for the telecoms, leaves out something important. Let's not forget signing statements and executive orders. Congress should NOT continue down this path of FISA "improvements." Leave it as it originally was; the so-called improvements are nearly as bad as giving the telecoms immunity as well.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:16 pmShrub is just rushing along anything to add to his "legacy":
Bush administration to bypass laws to build border fence
For instance, building in some areas requires assessments and studies that -- if conducted -- could not be completed in time to finish the fence by the end of the year.
A legacy of giving the finger to due process.
The government has since sued more than 50 property owners in South Texas to gain access to the land.
And disdain for others, especially the environment.
Environmentalists have also complained about the fence because they say it puts already endangered species such as two types of wild cats -- the ocelot and the jaguarundi -- in even more danger of extinction.
Chertoff has said the fence is good for the environment because immigrants degrade the land with trash and human waste when they sneak illegally into the country.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:16 pmDon't ever trust Bushco, they never agree to anything unless they have devious plot to do something illegal, immoral, unethical, or just plain old WRONG. There is always a political reason behind everything they do, don't trust him for a second.
IMPEACH BUSH CHENEY
April 1st, 2008 at 2:17 pmHague Trials '09
April Fool!
April 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pmDid Mukasey's recent remarks play a role in this?
Before 9/11, Mr. Mukasey said, “We knew that there had been a call from someplace that was known to be a safe house in Afghanistan and we knew that it came to the United States. We didn’t know precisely where it went. We’ve got” – here the Attorney General paused with emotion – “we’ve got 3,000 people who went to work that day, and didn’t come home, to show for that.”
As Keith Olberman puts it:
The government knew about some phone call from a safe house in Afghanistan into the US about 9/11, before 9/11, and even though it had the same FISA courts and the same right to act against international targets in 2001 as it does now, you didn’t do anything about it? Well, this would seem to leave only two options. Either the Attorney General just admitted that the government for which he works is guilty of malfeasant complicity in the 9/11 attacks or he’s lying.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:29 pmBush should have to walk back to Crawford on 1-20-09.
Seriously.
This guy has been so insulated from what America is thinking, wanting or feeling that we should mandate he walk back home. As he walks through each small American town, people can come out to the road & tell him what his 'legacy' is.
No violence, no assaults, just plain talk about how much worse their lives have become in the last 8 yrs.
They could video it for his library, so at least one of the archives there was truthful.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:37 pmZimzone Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Bush should have to walk back to Crawford on 1-20-09.
I love it Zimzone! Kind of reminds me of that Die Hard movie where Bruce Willis's character has to walk through Harlem wearing a placard that says, "I hate n@ggers!"
Oh, that we could force Georgie to wear a similar placard that says, "I hate 'mericuns and their freedoms!"
April 1st, 2008 at 2:43 pmDo the Congressional Dems have the spine and morality to get rid of telecom immunity? Anyone taking odds that they cave again?
April 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pmThe jury's still out on this one, but it does show what is possible when Democrats stand up and say, "Enough!".
April 1st, 2008 at 2:45 pmwoodguy Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 2:45 pm
The jury’s still out on this one, but it does show what is possible when Democrats stand up and say, “Enough!”.
That would sure be nice, because we've had enough of them saying, "Yes, sir, Mr. President. Whatever you want!"
April 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pmMaybe the reason they are finally willing to let imunity go is because they are working on pulling another more stunning, damaging plan. After reading this article last week, I can't help but think that this is the next big 'shock' we have to absorb.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/business/29regulate.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
April 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pmZimzone Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Actually, I think a little "tar and feathering" would be a nice touch as well. And for someone who has pushed torture as an "acceptable" thing to do, it would be classic justice.
"In a typical tar-and-feathers attack, the subject of a crowd's anger would be stripped to the waist. Hot tar was either poured or painted onto the person while he or she was immobilized. Then the victim either had feathers thrown on him or was rolled around on a pile of feathers so that they stuck to the sticky tar. Often the victim was then paraded around town on a cart or a rail. The feathers would stick to the tar for days, making the person's degradation obvious and continuing. The aim was to hurt and humiliate a person enough to leave town and not cause any more mischief."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_and_feathering
April 1st, 2008 at 3:07 pmWell, this story in the WSJ pretty much guarantees the white house will *not* back down.
One thing is well known: back petulant child McChimpy into a corner, or give any sort of pretense claiming to "know" what he'll do, and he is genetically disposed to do the opposite.
Which is no doubt why the WSJ printed the story.
April 1st, 2008 at 3:11 pmAlthough I'm happy to see Telecom Immunity bite the dust, WHY ON EARTH is Congress trying to expand powers when pre-9/11 powers are MORE than sufficient. Because 9/11 happened does not mean more powers are needed. It just means lazy lame duck presidents need to pay attention to the reports they WERE getting that predicted it!
DO NOT MODIFY FISA. If anything, abolish FISA and the "secret courts" and shine some sunlight into these shadowy UNAMERICAN parts of government.
April 1st, 2008 at 3:14 pmNO COMPROMISES!
They are in a position in which they have no leverage at all. The only play they had was to fearmonger and tell us we're all going to die and that didn't work.
THEY HAVE NO LEVERAGE!!!
April 1st, 2008 at 3:28 pmAs someone reminded us, it is APRIL FOOL'S DAY.
Therefore, the answer to the bush crime family should: NO
NO immunity to telecoms, period.
NO immunity to telecoms, period.
NO immunity to telecoms, period.
NO IMMUNITY TO TELECOMS!
PERIOD!
April 1st, 2008 at 3:29 pmI don't trust these bastards. They're up to something. Watch your back Dems. And don't capitulate. No retroactive immunity. Period.
April 1st, 2008 at 3:30 pmOpen to negotiation? Bush's negotiation style adheres to a very specific set of rules:
1. It's my game
2. It's my ball.
3. I can bully you all I want.
4. I always win.
5. If you don't let me win, I'll take my ball and go
home until you wanna play again.
The Bush Administration hates our freedoms because they hate us.
-AF
Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
April 1st, 2008 at 3:35 pmDO NOT TRUST THIS ADMINISTRATION. EVER.
April 1st, 2008 at 3:41 pmDid anyone catch the bit on Olbermann last night about the comments Mukasey recently made regarding pre-9/11 phone intercepts from Afghanistan into the US? I was passing through the room and didn't catch it all but it sounded very damning to this administration in that they ignored intel and that Mukasey might be lying.
anyone...?
April 1st, 2008 at 4:06 pmIt's not just the issue of retroactive immunity.
This FISA law has to be the one and only controlling law.
The Bush Administration wasn't even willing to agree to that! Unless FISA is the exclusive controlling law, it's practically irrelevant.
April 1st, 2008 at 4:06 pmimpeachcheneythenbush Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Actually, I think a little “tar and feathering” would be a nice touch as well. And for someone who has pushed torture as an “acceptable” thing to do, it would be classic justice.
“In a typical tar-and-feathers attack, the subject of a crowd’s anger would be stripped to the waist. Hot tar was either poured or painted onto the person while he or she was immobilized. Then the victim either had feathers thrown on him or was rolled around on a pile of feathers so that they stuck to the sticky tar. Often the victim was then paraded around town on a cart or a rail. The feathers would stick to the tar for days, making the person’s degradation obvious and continuing. The aim was to hurt and humiliate a person enough to leave town and not cause any more mischief.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_and_feathering
The tar is a bit inhumane, Use Gorilla glue instead. It sets in one hour and cures in 24, does not generate excessive heat and resists most solvents once cured.
April 1st, 2008 at 4:12 pmMy flim-flam sensor is showing red alert!
April 1st, 2008 at 4:56 pmThat's nice and all, but what new spying powers are they asking for in return? NOTHING in the FISA prevents the government from spying on anyone they have a justifiable suspician against. Why do they need a FISA revision at all?
April 1st, 2008 at 5:02 pmNow, see how easy that was? Maybe the Dems in Congress will start to realize they should have been standing up to Bush all along.
It's not too late to show a little spine. Try it, you'll like it!
April 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pmWe are now all aware that Bush illegally wiretapped everyone. Why is no one calling for an audit to determine who was subject to Bush's illegal wiretaps? I for one wish to know if John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean ... were illegally wiretapped.
April 1st, 2008 at 6:35 pmWhite House may drop insistence on telecom immunity.
They just want a bill to "creatively interpret". Watch for signing statements....
Cheers,
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:25 amWar Criminals should be indicted and convicted - not given more powers.
Investigate Cheney and Bush for their extensive crimes against humanity and stop talking about giving these murderers more power already.
Democrats need to grow a set. We are talking about fascist murderers for christ sake!
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 am