Despite His Votes To Cut Veterans Funding, McCain Says We Owe Vets ‘A Debt We Can Never Repay’
Despite His Votes To Cut Veterans Funding, McCain Says We Owe Vets ‘A Debt We Can Never Repay’
Today, Sen. John McCain spoke to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Kansas City, MO. He spoke at length about the sacrifice paid by U.S. soldiers in Iraq, acknowledging “how little has been asked of others compared to their service” and declaring that the nation owes veterans “a debt that we can never fully repay.”
He also said that veterans should have access to “the highest quality health…care in the world” upon returning:
As President, I will do everything in my power to ensure that those who serve today and those who have served in the past have access to the highest quality health, mental health and rehabilitative care in the world. The disgrace of Walter Reed must not be forgotten. … Whatever our commitments to veterans cost, we will keep them, as you have kept every commitment to us. The honor of a great nation is at stake.
Watch it:
Not only has he refused to support the 21st Century GI Bill, which the Veterans of Foreign Wars endorsed last June, he has consistently voted against increasing funding for the Veterans’ Administration, which oversees all medical care for veterans:
– Voted AGAINST an amendment providing $20 billion to the VA’s medical facilities. [5/4/06]
– Voted AGAINST providing $430 million to the VA for outpatient care “and treatment for veterans,” one of only 13 senators to do so. [4/26/06]
– Voted AGAINST increasing VA funding by $1.5 billion by closing corporate loopholes. [3/14/06]
– Voted AGAINST increasing VA funding by $1.8 billion by ending “abusive tax loopholes.” [3/10/04]
–
Voted AGAINST FOR a $650 million increase in veterans’ medical care funding.[8/1/01]
Though McCain has derided progressive universal health care plans as “a government takeover,” he is mum on the success of the VA, a government-run, integrated approach that, as Paul Krugman put it, is “one of the few clear American success stories in the struggle to contain health care costs.”
McCain’s zero-regulation, every-man-for-himself approach to health insurance would in effect “dismantle” the VA — what Krugman calls “a completely wrongheaded approach to health care.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
He says he for the troops, but only as long as they don’t cost money, then they have bridges for them to sleep under. And of course he is more than willing to give as much money as he can for war, I mean, jeez, Five deferment Dick needs to make those WAR PROFITS.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:13 pmThe hypocrisy of this man is astounding.
If the main stream media didn’t have a woody for him, he’d be laughed out of the race…..
April 7th, 2008 at 1:15 pmMcStupid :”Why do these Vets need anything ? They should follow in my footsteps and go out and marry a cash cow like I did ; even if it means leaving their present wife and/or family”…………….
April 7th, 2008 at 1:16 pmSo what McCain is really saying is “we can’t repay the debt we owe to our vets, so why try?”
April 7th, 2008 at 1:17 pmIs it not possible to get anyone close enough to this liar at an event to ask him these questions?Preferably with a camera so we can document his lies.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:18 pmGrampus McBush sez, “I support the troops —- because I SAY I do!!!!! So STFU, you young whippersnappers!!”
April 7th, 2008 at 1:19 pmA debt they chose not to repay unless they can figure how to dump it on future generations of WORKING CLASS AMERICANS.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:20 pmEvery man for himself health insurance is a dump on the greater public, not just the VA. Employers want badly to jettison that pesky health insurance benefit and a bi-partisan team of Senators lined up last year to grease the skids. McCain’s plan builds on that intended profit boost for U.S. corporations.
As for the effectiveness of government contracting, what makes McCain think the VA can design and execute better contracts than the Pentagon? How about those cost plus, indefinite quantity, indefinite delivery contracts? Or those 5 year emergency contracts?
John, first you have to execute with what you have now! Not credible…
April 7th, 2008 at 1:20 pmMcCain’s zero-regulation, every-man-for-himself approach to health insurance would in effect “dismantle” the VA — what Krugman calls “a completely wrongheaded approach to health care.”
Of course he does.
McShitstain married a wealthy , empty-headed bim , and he also has comprehensive medical care thanks to his being a politician ; health care that is perhaps 2nd to none in the US today.
It’s the old “I got mine , go get yours”
April 7th, 2008 at 1:22 pm, philosophy ; how quaint and genteel ……..
.
As long as McTORTURE is on the job, we will ALWAYS have a debt that can never be repaid.
.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pmJudging from hos voting record, McWirestouching is bummed that so many of the soldiers in Iraq survive those horrible head injuries and limb severed injuries and will continue to remind Americans for years to come of the real cost of Bush’s War.
In his day, those kids would have died in the jungle and would have served their God given purpose as propoganda to push for more kids dying so the previous ones didn’t die in vain.
Now the bastards survive, we have to pay for their care forever and a day, and worse yet, they are able to express their opinion that Bush sucks and anyone who supports his war should rot in Hell.
Sorry John, we are going to elect a Democrat for President. Someone who cares for the kids, not the oil.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pmSo hey, Wrong_Stuff …how about you tell us why you support torture…?
Until then, STFU.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:24 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
This is oversimplified and misleading. Just take the first example:
“– Voted AGAINST an amendment providing $20 billion to the VA’s medical facilities. [5/4/06].”
There were 58 other NAY votes in the Senate including Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Ed Kennedy, Harry Reid, etc….
In fact, most of the YEA votes were Republicans.
http://www.senate.gov/ legislative/ LIS/ roll_call_lists/ roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00111#position
So why did the Democrats vote against the Veterans? Care to explain?
Care to explain why you zeroed in on that 1 particular bill only , Powder Puff ?
How many of those Dems you cited voted “Nay” on the other bills listed , skid mark ?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:24 pmMcCain is delusional, out of touch, jingoistic, OLD goofball. Fit for drinking partner of Homer Simpson, not POTUS.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:24 pmThe debt we can never repay is a romanticized debt of a romanticized war. It is has no basis in reality and that is why he likes it so much. It does not exist and by its definition we can’t repay it so he can pay lip service to it and do nothing.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pmMcCorpse is just another marionette whose strings will be pulled by the PNAC and free market neocons.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:26 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I think we should elect a President who actually has a kid serving in Iraq. Don’t you?
Not if it’s Duncan Hunter……….And No , BTW
Iraq was and always will be a lie ; why is it a necessity to have a president whose child is serving there ?
I’d prefer someone who has kids that were smart enough to not fall for propogandist bullshit ………..
April 7th, 2008 at 1:27 pmShorter McSame: I got mine, y’all f_ck off.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pmPerhaps a bit more thought would be in order before taking on such a debt, Mr. “Bomb, bomb, bomb”.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pmSorry John, we are going to elect a Democrat for President. Someone who cares for the kids, not the oil.
you’re kidding, right?
unless the troops come home from iraq covered in ‘victory,’ as the ww ii vets were, the ‘people’ will piss all over ‘em…just as they did after my war, 40 years ago…
johnson got the gi bill for my generation. nobody–not hrc, nor bho, and certainly not McStain–will work that hard for vets today…
April 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pmMcCain sez:Although I’m a vet, I’ve got mine. So F**K YOU!
April 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I think we should elect a President who actually has a kid serving in Iraq. Don’t you?
Oh yeah, especially a guy who calls his wife a “trollop” and “c*nt.”
I can see why you’d like him.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pmj swift; anyone who has a romanticized view of war has seen way too many John Wanye/Rambo movies.
war sucks.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pm.
Why should Johnny McTorture care, he’s already received his GI benefits.
.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pmZooey Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
The_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I think we should elect a President who actually has a kid serving in Iraq. Don’t you?
Oh yeah, especially a guy who calls his wife a “trollop” and “c*nt.”
I can see why you’d like him.
Didn’t McStupid make that comment ?
Umm , he doesn’t have a kid serving in the military , does he………..?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pmmanicare Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
We need a president who doesn’t want his kid punished with a baby!!
Don’t worry ; neither Hillary nor Obama want to adopt Chimpy ……………
April 7th, 2008 at 1:33 pmHiya Zooey; I didn’t read the other posts before I stuck my 2 cents in. Great minds think alike. (:-D)
April 7th, 2008 at 1:33 pm17 – yes – let’s elect Webb.
But let’s not elect someone who votes against the very thing he says is so important, no matter who his kid happens to be.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:36 pmMCMetal
April 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I thought the troll was talking about McCain. I thought McCain had a kid in Iraq, or at least he was there at some point. I could be wrong.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pmUncle Ho
April 7th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
The greatest!!
April 7th, 2008 at 1:38 pmPresident Obama.
Has a good ring to it doesn’t it? You trolls might need to practice some, but you’ll get used to it. And after 8 years of saying President Obama, you will get real good at it.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Interesting that Democrats/Liberals/Progressives/Socialists have been calling Republican leaders “Chickenhawks” for years saying that they can’t express a view on Iraq unless they have served in war and have a kid on the front lines. Now we have 3 candidates”
1. Mccain – decorated veteran and POW and has a kid on the front lines in Iraq;
2. Clinton – never served. No kids in Iraq.
3. Obama – never served. No kids in Iraq.
Now suddenly, none of that matters. IOKALAYAD
What the hell are you talking about ?
Which “kid” of McStupid’s is on the “front line in Iraq” ?
The black one that he had out-of-wedlock ?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pmI think what Little Johnny McNumbNuts means is “we owe these vets a debt that we can’t and don’t intend to repay”.
He will introduce some fluffy, meaningless legislation about it . . . probably something called “No Soldier Left Behind”.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Interesting that Democrats/Liberals/Progressives/Socialists have been calling Republican leaders “Chickenhawks” for years saying that they can’t express a view on Iraq unless they have served in war and have a kid on the front lines. Now we have 3 candidates”
1. Mccain – decorated veteran and POW and has a kid on the front lines in Iraq;
2. Clinton – never served. No kids in Iraq.
3. Obama – never served. No kids in Iraq.
__________________________________________________
I don’t recall anybody on either side of the ideology fence calling McCain a chickenhawk — his military record and his experience as a POW is well-known. It’s also known that he has one son serving in the military as a lance corporal in Iraq, and another one going to naval school.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pmZooey Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
MCMetal
April 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I thought the troll was talking about McCain. I thought McCain had a kid in Iraq, or at least he was there at some point. I could be wrong.
If it is , it’s from his 1st marriage ; you remember that , don’t you ?
The woman he left after cheating on repeatedly (and who was seriously ill at the time) and who cared and nurtured their children while he was away …….
April 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pmWrong Shit;
John Kerry-served in combat
GW Bush- deserter
Dickhead Cheney- never served-5 draft deferments
Billy bob Kristol-never served-another draft-dodging coward.
John soaring eagle-never served 7 draft deferments
Rush Limpdick-never served(pimple on ass- which others had & served)
should I continue?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Interesting that Democrats/Liberals/Progressives/Socialists have been calling Republican leaders “Chickenhawks” for years saying that they can’t express a view on Iraq unless they have served in war and have a kid on the front lines. Now we have 3 candidates”
Ahhhh, the right stuff, huh? Um, no – the wrong stuff. Try to follow along with the adults:
Chickenhawks are the politicians who send other people to fight the wars they start – without fighting them themselves. Who on your list wants to invade Iraq and Iran?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:44 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
30. Yes, McMetal, he does have a kid in the military. Lance Corporal McCain enlisted in the Marines at 17, served a tour in Iraq and is heading back. Sen. McCain generally keeps quiet about this.
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2008/ 04/ 06/ us/ politics/ 06mccain.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Yeah , the stupid old skid mark “keeps quiet” about him because the kid feels the same way towards his scumbag father the way Fruity Rudy Drooliani’s feel about their piece of shit old man …………
April 7th, 2008 at 1:45 pmThe right wing loves Vets who help perpetuate the myth of staying in Iraq. They however equate any Vet who speaks against the war with suicide bombers. How very nice of them.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:45 pmMCMetal
April 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Oh yeah, the woman who was in a serious car accident while McCain was in the POW camp, but didn’t tell him because she wanted to protect him from the worries of home.
I remember her. I can see why The Wrong Stuff admires him.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:46 pmMcCain is not a chickenhawk, he’s simply a WARMONGER.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:47 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
44. Sure, Uncle Ho. Keep going until you reach Clinton and Obama and their lack of service.
If I were a flag-humper like you, I’d avoid the subject of a “lack of service.”
Your chimp in Chief deserted, and his puppet master got by on 5 deferments.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:47 pmwrong shit says keep going until you reach Clinton and their lack of service
______________________________________________________________
So?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:49 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
47. Apparantly, you didn’t take time to read the article. So typical for a “Progressive.”
And so typical of a GOP/Chimpy leg humping sycophant , you post a link to an article glowing about McStupid penned by the Times’ friggin’ ART EDITOR.
Anything to make your group of incompetent nitwits appear relevant and electable , eh Powder Puff ?
BTW
Why is it that you never hear anything about McShitstain’s “other” kids ?
You remember them ? From his 1st wife that he cheated on and left …………..
April 7th, 2008 at 1:51 pmLast time I checked neither Obama, or Clinton were planning on perpetuating the war for a 100 years. Obama has been consistent about speaking against the Iraq war. Sorry labeling him a chickenhawk doesn’t work. Bush,Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rush, et al on the other hand…
April 7th, 2008 at 1:53 pmWRONG SHIT is now defending the swift boaters. What a miserable excuse for an American.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:53 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Not true. The Swift Boat Veterans blasted Kerry for the many lies he told about his 4 months of service in Viet Nam.
Well, well, it’s goon_golly reposting for the nth time the thoroughly discredited claims.
Did you think we’d all forgotten this?: http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/
April 7th, 2008 at 1:54 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
The_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
44. Sure, Uncle Ho. Keep going until you reach Clinton and Obama and their lack of service.
You reich-wingers blasted Kerry’s service. You hypocrite.
_____________________
Not true. The Swift Boat Veterans blasted Kerry for the many lies he told about his 4 months of service in Viet Nam.
http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php
Yeah , it’s just too bad that the Swift Bpat Liars for Shrub were even more full of shit themselves ……..
BTW
The money that group make collectively worth smearing a known combat veteran in favor of an AWOL chickenshit moron ?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pmjb Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
McCain is not a chickenhawk, he’s simply a WARMONGER
And as such, I can see nothing which qualifies him to live in our White House. Absolutely nothing. I admire his service, but that does not qualify him to be our next POTUS.
Now, if “right stuff” thinks McSame is qualified, so what? right stuff needs war mongers to provide his ‘glory’. if right stuff were patriotic, he wouldn;t be blogging here, now would he – he would be fighting for his country in the romantic battles which await him over there in the ME.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pmmisshusseinmolly Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
The_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Interesting that Democrats/Liberals/Progressives/Socialists have been calling Republican leaders “Chickenhawks” for years saying that they can’t express a view on Iraq unless they have served in war and have a kid on the front lines. Now we have 3 candidates”
1. Mccain – decorated veteran and POW and has a kid on the front lines in Iraq;
2. Clinton – never served. No kids in Iraq.
3. Obama – never served. No kids in Iraq.
__________________________________________________
Sorry, I accidentally hit the “submit” button before I was done.
You miss the point. McCain isn’t a chickenhawk, and nobody is calling him one. However, many Republicans and other warmongers are. And it’s not that they “can’t express a view on Iraq” — it’s beating the drums for war at a cost of American lives when they skated out of dangerous duty themselves that we find reprehensible. Cheney had five deferments. Dubya got a coveted position in the National Guard learning to fly a plane that had virtually no chance of being used in Vietnam. Limbaugh got exempted because of a pimple on his butt, of all things. Bill O’Reilly. Donald Rumsfeld. The list is long. Just because you find one war hawk who actually served in combat doesn’t nullify the term.
As far as the service records of Clinton and Obama — Obama came of age during peacetime, and neither Obama nor Clinton were subject to the draft. Furthermore, both Obama and Clinton oppose the war in Iraq, so they are not morally obligated to serve or have their children serve to fight a war they are against (besides, Obama’s kids a just a BIT young to serve).
I believe you were asked to provide a link that proved McCain’s son was actually fighting on “the front lines”. It’s known that Jimmy McCain is currently serving in Iraq, but we don’t know where, due to a news blackout to protect him. Are you just making an assumption that he’s fighting on the “front lines”, or can you prove that?
April 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pmgummitch Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Well, well, it’s goon_golly reposting for the nth time the thoroughly discredited claims.
That’s who that is.
Sheesh…
April 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pmIt doesn’t matter that he has a kid in the war. That’s a political means to an end – an option that few soldiers will ever get. He wants soldiers to be retained in the service – he, and the other warmongers in the military industrial complex, want to limit the economic freedom of military families. Just like drug dealers hooking their junkies on a life of dependency.
http://comedianforpresident.com/
April 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm.
Hea y’all,
The_Right_Stuff is going to vote for a Commander in Chief while Americans are going to vote for a President of the United States of America because TRS thinks that the president IS the CIC of America.
What a frigging dolt!
.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:57 pmOMG the wrong stuff still believes the swift-boaters…WHAT A ‘TARD! LMAO at this maroon.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pmMcCain would most likely be dead without the fancy schmancy healthcare he gets from the GOVERNMENT. Is that an argument in favor or against Government managed healthcare?
April 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
60. McCain is not “planning on perpetuating the war for 100 years.” That is a horribly misconstrued mis-quote that Dean has chosen to make the Democratic party talking point/lie. What McCain said was it was not the amount of time we were in Iraq that mattered to the American people (one hundred, one thousand or one million years). What matters to the American people is the amount of American casualties, according to the discussion that has so-often been misquoted.
When your “plans” and vision(s) include permanent bases in a foreign land that you were not invaded by nor invited you to help , what are the odds that you will not suffer casualties for a century ?
About the same as you not being a completely stupid , nut hugging GOP tool , I’d guess……….
April 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pmIs McShame in favor of Chinese or Saudi bases on US soil?
April 7th, 2008 at 2:02 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
MissMolly:
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2008/ 04/ 06/ us/ politics/ 06mccain.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You post a link that has McStupid making claims about how the Dems’ plans for withdrawal are “reckless” ?
Because McInsane is what ?
A war historian ?
A veteran in ground warfare , or an expert of the same ?
How successful was he as a pilot , that he crashed 4 or 5 DIFFERENT PLANES , dipshit ?
That isn’t exactly the actions of a Patton or MacArthur there , GI Joke ……….
April 7th, 2008 at 2:04 pmThe_Right_Stuff is going to vote for a Commander in Chief while Americans are going to vote for a President of the United States of America because TRS thinks that the president IS the CIC of America.
What a frigging dolt!
That is the exact truth. right stuff wants to be told what to do, where to go, how to live, etc…The last gasp 19%r’s are the lousy americans who cannot think for themselves – they simply cannot. Without the words of their ‘leaders’ (limbaugh, o’reilly, hannity, beck, coulter, etc) they would not have one word to say. The right side used to be filled with brave and couragegous people, now they are all hiding under beds, scared of the furriners. A pathetic coward is all the right stuff is. He is a good spokesperson for the rest of the fraidy cats. Boo! See he just wet his pants….
April 7th, 2008 at 2:05 pmIt is not a war, never was. Invasion of a weak country and prolonged occupation for corporate control of resources.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:05 pmmanicare Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
misshusseinmolly Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Are you implying that anybody not fighting on the frontlines of the war is not putting their life in danger? I guess that’s easy to say sitting in the A/C eating cheetos!
Are you implying that you and Powder Puff aren’t chickenshit chickenhawks yourselves , rooting on an illegal (and stupid) invasion and occupation , yet refusing to participate in it ?
Afraid the “enemy” (whoever the hell they are) , will see the pair of yellow streaks , running up your acne-covered backs ?
Keep being part of that invaluable 82nd Keyboard Brigade , pansy ………..
April 7th, 2008 at 2:07 pmWhat does he care? McWalkingCane doesn’t go to the VA. He has free Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Kerry was not “blasted for his service to this Country.” He was blasted for the many lies he told about “his service to this Country.” If he would have just stuck to the truth, he would have been fine.
Prove that he lied.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:10 pm#84,
April 7th, 2008 at 2:10 pmWhy do you hate US war heros?
The_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Kerry was not “blasted for his service to this Country.” He was blasted for the many lies he told about “his service to this Country.” If he would have just stuck to the truth, he would have been fine.
Yeah
He should have just told everyone how he kept the whole country safe from the impending VC invasion by patrolling the Texas and Alabama borders , before going AWOL…………
April 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Kerry was not “blasted for his service to this Country.” He was blasted for the many lies he told about “his service to this Country.” If he would have just stuck to the truth, he would have been fine.
The only liar here is yourself. Please read the rebuttal information already posted on this thread before posting any more garbage about Kerry. When you’re done, we’ll all accept your apology.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pmMcShame is bending to expound the propaganda of his Neo-Con captors.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pmIf Johnny McMaverick and his supporters can’t take what they dished out for John Kerry, they have no business in the race.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pmOT, as usual the right wing is fine with troops, as long as those troops don’t ask for anything when they get shot up. After all we don’t want socialized healthcare. The thing is, if the VA was run effectively then it might give pause for the rest of the US to consider why we don’t have universal healthcare. Better that returning troops deal with injury and mental problems then allow the HMO’s to not make massive profits.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:13 pmThe Swift Boat pukes are accepted to be pure liars, by everyone but the 25%ers that still swear allegiance to their God Bush. It’s even accepted as a verb, as in “to be Swift Boated.”
Your credibility, Reich-Stuff has been flushed and is swimming with the Trojans and floaters. The same place the Swift Boat BS came from.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:14 pmmanicare Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
McCain has made less money than any candidate currently running! Obama and Hilary are both multi-millionaires!
That’s because only GOP tools like yourself and Powder Puff are interested in the bullshit ramblings of a below-average fighter pilot who insists on drooling out “My Friends” 500 times during every one of his boring speeches………..
April 7th, 2008 at 2:14 pmThe_Right_Stuff
April 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Thoroughly discredited.
Nice try.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:15 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
You try to prove a group’s legitimacy by providing a link to their web-site ?
That’s a real novel idea …………Stupid as hell , but novel , nevertheless.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:16 pmmanicare Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
McCain has made less money than any candidate currently running! Obama and Hilary are both multi-millionaires!
McCain never did anything for himself with regard to his wealth. He left his wife on her death bed to marry a beer heiress. If it was left up to McSame, he wouldn’t have had enough money to even run for political office. His new wife’s wealth allowed him to do it.
BTW, there used to be a time in America where acquiring wealth – the legal kind – was a positive attribute. Now, it seems the more money a person accumulates, the more they have to explain. Dude, where’s my country?
April 7th, 2008 at 2:17 pmYou only have to explain where your money came from if your a democrat. Repblicans are allowed a free pass on that question.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:19 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
shoeless Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
#84,
Why do you hate US war heros?
______________________
I don’t. I admire them. Why do you hate US war heroes and POW’s like Sen. McCain? Why do you question Bush and his daughters “not serving” but fail to mention that Sen. McCain served and that his son has served and will serve in Iraq?
Because McShitstain isn’t the president (and never will be) , nor is his family the 1st family.
They also didn’t illegally invade and occupy a sovereign nation with no provocation based upon lies………….
April 7th, 2008 at 2:19 pmMANICURE! ISSUES! Try to stay focused on the issues! I don’t give one rat shit how much candidates make, from selling books to speaking, to administering hospitals.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pmI am a VietNam veteran, and this issue is extremely important to myself and both my brothers, who are also veterans.
So stay focused and address the issue of why McCain would utter such outright lies. Why do you give him a pass and focus on non-issues?/? When were you diagnosed with ADD?
He owes the vets “a debt we can never repay” and he has already begun not paying it – he won’t sign the GI bill, has already voted to cut benefits to veterans. If the debt cannot be repaid then there must be no sense to pay anything, right, John?
April 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pmBut support for the war industry? Give them anything they want; start wars everywhere that the machinery will be needed. Bring in the troops, but let’s not pay them too much, we have a budget to contend with. Right, John?\
The_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Kerry lost the popular vote. Apparantly, people believed the Veterans.
And the country has neve been in better shape, right? You are such a moron. You gleefully tell us about Kerry losing the pop vote, and then we see your idiot in chief ruin this once fine country. Just how out of touch are you? You cannot take pleasure in kerry losing, if the result of that loss was that Dumbya was installed by the SCOTUS as our king. Geez, do try and keep up.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:21 pmmanicare Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
MCMetal Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I guess it’s easier for filthy rich people to understand everyday middle class struggles.
Obama funded his own way through school ; Hillary was married to a former president who was from a dirt-poor enviroment , who became a Rhodes Scholar.
McShitstain’s father and grand-father were both Navy admirals , and McSkidmark finshed 3rd from the bottom of his naval graduating class of almost 600 , I believe.
Who is it that understands the “middle class” better , chucklehead ?
April 7th, 2008 at 2:22 pmthis thread offers a couple of Krugman quotes.
Krugman is known for his partisanship. Many liberals would name Paul Krug-man of The New York Times as perhaps the most consistent and courageous—and unapologetic—liberal partisan in American journalism. He has made his perspective on the Bush administration and the contemporary right, and on the need to see politics as a battle, manifestly clear in column after incendiary column. Indeed, of all the ways he could have concluded The Conscience of a Liberal, he chose to do so with a short essay that appears under the headline “On Being Partisan,” which notes:
The central fact of modern American political life is the control of the Republican Party by movement conservatives, whose vision of what America should be is completely antithetical to that of the progressive movement. Because of that control, the notion, beloved of political pundits, that we can make progress through bipartisan consensus is simply foolish….
To be a progressive, then, means being a partisan—at least for now. The only way a progressive agenda can be enacted is if Democrats have both the presidency and a large enough majority in Congress to overcome Republican opposition.
——————————————————————————–
April 7th, 2008 at 2:23 pmWouldn’t it be more credible if the threads could use other (or maybe multiple) economists, as credible sources?
The_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Kerry lost the popular vote. Apparantly, people believed the Veterans.
So , because people are easily duped makes the side that duped them truthful ?
How “truthful” were Chimpy’s lies about Iraq/Saddam , shithead ?
You’re friggin’ brainless ………..
April 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pmsorry, tried to make a link of the Krugman info, but screwed it up.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pmCan any of our trolls explain why mccain voted to cut veterans funding?
I’m flagging any trolls from this point on that aren’t on topic. You have dominated this thread with your bs long enough..
April 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pmStuffedRightNot obviously is too young to remember how the rethugs persecuted Bill Clinton for not serving in Viet Nam starting the whole issue of service in the millitary. Of course they also persecuted him for admitting he tried marijuana and then embraced the AWOL, drunken, coke head, W. Of course IOKIYAR.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:25 pmI guess McCain believes we owe vets a debt we cannot ever repay so why even try!
April 7th, 2008 at 2:26 pmbackup Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Wouldn’t it be more credible if the threads could use other (or maybe multiple) economists, as credible sources?
What economist beholden to the GOP and Chimpy’s administration specifically , is going to deviate away from their message that all is still wonderful and rosey , and how is that in any way relevant or even worth viewing ?
For the inherent comedic value ?
April 7th, 2008 at 2:27 pmbackup
don’t start trying to label liberals as partisan……there has never been a more divided time in the history of the united states and that includes vien nam era. All thanks to the bitter partisanship of the gop….get back on topic.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:28 pmIt is truly amazing, and a testament to the incredible thick-skulled arrogance of the few remaining Bush worshippers that they still continue to spout the completely debunked lies of the despicable Swift Boaters long after their name has entered the general lexicon to define those who would tell any lie in order to smear honorable people.
Swiftboating is American political jargon that is used (primarily) as a strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair or untrue—for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign. It is now in mainstream use.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:28 pmmanicare Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
StratRat Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
You Progressive ideologue seams to contradict your statements about wealth. I’m just using the negative connotation your side has given wealth in America.
Hey Corky
The bulk of the Clinton’s wealth has been amassed by Bill , from all his speaking engagements .
Regardless of what you (stupidly) may think of him , he is easily the best speaker as far as politicians go , since JFK.
No one progressive is “upset” at someone EARNING their fortune ; what has Chimpy ever “earned” , if you would care to answer …………………..
April 7th, 2008 at 2:30 pmSwiftboating means lying to hide the facts……same thing the bush admin does every day…
it’s a right wing skill……they put it on their resume instead of evidence that they can do anything constructive.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:31 pmBy crashing 5 US planes, McCain is a North Vietnamese Ace.
no wonder he wants to cut VA funding, he’s a commie agent!
April 7th, 2008 at 2:32 pmI think we should elect a President who actually has a kid serving in Iraq. Don’t you?
Sure, how about President Jim Webb.
WTF does having a kid in Iraq have to do with who we should vote for? Typical troll logic.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:35 pmI didn’t know that. Thanks Uncle Ho.
McCain lost five U.S. Navy aircraft
Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.
During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.
Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale’s Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain “learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn’t love it.”
April 7th, 2008 at 2:37 pmThat’s right, McCain’s wife has the money. After all the classes self admitted “worst student” is hardly going to make any money writing books. W inherited from his parents and McCain married it, too bad he dumped the first loyal wife to do it. Good thing you rethugs have absolutely no morals.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:37 pmShoeless, where can I send him the bill for those five aircraft? It’s about time he did something for his country besides occupying a cell at the Hanoi Hilton.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:40 pmHis tour ended in Feburary.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:42 pmThat’s right, McCain’s wife has the money. After all the classes self admitted “worst student” is hardly going to make any money writing books. W inherited from his parents and McCain married it, too bad he dumped the first loyal wife to do it. Good thing you rethugs have absolutely no morals.
Yeah, that’s the wife that raised his children and waited for him to come home from captivity. Then he starts an affair with Cindy and dumps his wife and children to marry into money. Nice… Not someone I want as my President.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:43 pmFunny how the rightards rail on and on about everything except for the fact that McStain is happy to leave veterans out on the street, as all republicans are. whether he’s a war hero (he isn’t, he’s a loser and a songbird) in irrelevant to the question. he hates veterans, and would rather his rich war-profiteer friends get the money the vets need. that’s all that needs to be known about him, along with the fact that his service record shows what a horrible CiC he would be. he’s incompetent and dangerous.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:44 pm“And so, my friends, since we can never fully repay our veterans, we should not even begin to try. For any attempt we may make at repayment, will be simply inadequate, and thus may be an insult to these brave men and women who have seen and given so much. So, my friends, I will not try to repay them in an inadequate way.
P.S. I still support our troops.”
Thanks, John.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:45 pmNow, how many presidential candidates can boast on their resume’ that they are a North Vietnamese ace?
Clinton? No.
Obama? Nope.
McCain? Absolutely.
did the navy ever bill him for those 5 planes lost?
The government is charging our troops for loss/damages of their equipment in combat today, you know, for their flak jackets, helmets, etc.
5 planes at their cost + >50 years interest ought to be a tidy sum.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:47 pmDr. Hussein Matt Says:
Mc100yearwas isn’t a “war hero”. He failed in war. He was shot down. He didn’t and couldn’t complete his mission. He’s a failure.
There is some controversy as to whether he was actually shot down. There is the theory that he crashed his plane like he crashed the 5 other planes. What a hero. Crashes his plane and then is held prisoner for 5 years. I’m not exactly what it is about being held a prisoner that makes him a hero, though.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:50 pmmanicare Says:
McCain has made less money than any candidate currently running! Obama and Hilary are both multi-millionaires!
You are right. McCain is not smart enough to make money and become a multi-millionaire. He married the money. Much quicker that way.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:51 pmmanicare Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Shayne Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
So rich people are smart now? I thought rich people were Republicans with friends making backdoor Laws so they were the only ones making money.
There is no one “standard” when it comes to the wealthy , dipshit.
Steve Jobs is brilliant ; Prescott Bush was a traitor and a dealer with the Nazis.
Which one would fall into the “smart” category ?
Well , knowing what a Chimpy adoring , anti-American suckhole you are , I’d presume you are probably going to claim the latter is…………..
April 7th, 2008 at 2:52 pmUncle Ho Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Now, how many presidential candidates can boast on their resume’ that they are a North Vietnamese ace?
Clinton? No.
Obama? Nope.
McCain? Absolutely.
did the navy ever bill him for those 5 planes lost?
The government is charging our troops for loss/damages of their equipment in combat today, you know, for their flak jackets, helmets, etc.
5 planes at their cost + >50 years interest ought to be a tidy sum.
Yeah , the nerve of those soldiers ; how dare they get shot at in a shithole and get struck by enemy fire …………
April 7th, 2008 at 2:53 pmOh, good. Another incoherent troll.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm3. Obama – never served. No kids in Iraq.
Yeah, Obama should have sent his 5 & 6 year old girls to serve. Shame on him for not doing that.
Would you care to show us any right wing politicians who are Obama’s age who served in the military?
April 7th, 2008 at 2:56 pmAfter reading about McCain’s son, it’s apparent the military are making sure he isn’t even close to being “in harm’s way,” so it’s just for show. I’d be in more danger walking the streets of South San Diego.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:59 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Oh, good. Another incoherent troll.
I think it’s the same incoherent troll.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:00 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
You are right. McCain is not smart enough to make money and become a multi-millionaire. He married the money. Much quicker that way.
And yet, John Kerry was vilified constantly by the Right for “marrying money.” Funny how that works.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:01 pmIf you’re making the point that McCain was not a great pilot or that he somehow should pay for the aircraft he damaged, okay.
But, if you’re reasonable, you’ll admit that the criticism of Clinton, Cheney, and Bush of draft dodging doesn’t apply to McCain. And because he didn’t avoid Vietnam, he has a credibility that the aforementioned don’t share.
Give the devil his due.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pmThe_Right_Stuff Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Kerry lost the popular vote. Apparantly, people believed the Veterans.
_______________________________________
First — do you have some inside information that the reason Bush squeaked by with a hairline victory was because of the Swift Boat Veterans? An argument can be made that it was because of people scared to death of gays kissing (and the fact that anti-gay initiatives were on the ballots in many states got the homophobes out voting in force). Another argument can be made that voter caging and other irregularities tipped the balance ever so slightly in Bush’s favor.
Second — what in the world does this have to do with McCain’s position on funding the needs of veterans?
April 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pmAre you really sure that you want to equate making money (or being rich) with intelligence?
April 7th, 2008 at 3:07 pmbackup Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
If you’re making the point that McCain was not a great pilot or that he somehow should pay for the aircraft he damaged, okay.
But, if you’re reasonable, you’ll admit that the criticism of Clinton, Cheney, and Bush of draft dodging doesn’t apply to McCain. And because he didn’t avoid Vietnam, he has a credibility that the aforementioned don’t share.
Give the devil his due.
What “credit” does the senile old fool “deserve” ?
Why would I give a shit about the bullshit spewed by a sub-standard NAVY PILOT on a GROUND WAR or his non-support of current vets , when he himself isn’t reliant on governement funds to those who served because he married into money after dumping his 1st wife and the coverage he receives as an elected official ?
Oh wait ; that’s right , I don’t ……………Nor should anyone else.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:09 pmbackup Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
You are right. McCain is not smart enough to make money and become a multi-millionaire. He married the money. Much quicker that way.
Are you really sure that you want to equate making money (or being rich) with intelligence?
Only if and when it’s applicable.
In Chimpy’s case , we know intelligence has never been present , so it’s a moot point ………..
April 7th, 2008 at 3:10 pmMcLame is a tool. Apparently, “A debt we can never repay,” means simply ‘don’t pay.’ I despise his flag-waving with one hand while snatching away the very funds veterans need with the other. This tool’s hypocrisy in unending.
A vet in California
April 7th, 2008 at 3:12 pmOK, OK — I have read enough comments on wealth, and whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing.
My two cents: I don’t really care whether a candidate is wealthy or not. I don’t even really care if he earned his wealth or if he got it through marriage or inheritance. And this applies whether the candidate is a Democrat or a Republican.
I DO care if a candidate or an office-holder is wealthy and strikes an “I got mine” posture when it comes to taking care of the less fortunate. When I see a rich politician voting down funds to help people pay medical bills, to help the homeless, to provide job training, or any other program that helps people make it, I find this politician to be truly out of touch. And it’s especially galling when this “I got mine” attitude is coming from somebody who never earned it on their own. And yes — this also applies whether the politician is a Democrat or a Republican.
McCain married money. Kerry married money. Bush inherited money. Big deal — there’s no real sin in this. What matters is how they take care of those who didn’t luck out that way.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:17 pmSounds selective and less credible.
There are plenty of bright people that aren’t rich. And plenty of bright people with money.
But, when you’re considering Kerry or McCain; it is hard to argue that these aren’t bright men that understand the importance of money. Sad but true.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:20 pmmolly. I agree with what you say with one caveate.
Many people really believe that by accomadating someones needs, is not necessarily the best way to help them.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. But, it could be a difference in ideology and not an ‘I’ve got mine’ mindset.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:23 pmSee? John McCain is a man of principle. He believes so strongly that the veterans are owed ‘A Debt We Can Never Repay’, that he’s not even going to try and repay them.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:24 pmWe could give you plenty of examples that McCain is not to bright. Al Qaeda in Iran ring any bells? But please feel free to give us examples of his brilliance.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:24 pmI love it! According to a few antagonists here, we shouldn’t vote for a candidate based on his position of topics that directly affect us. Instead, we should vote based upon their children’s military experience? Geez, what’s next? Base your vote upon what a candidate’s pastor preached about years ago?
April 7th, 2008 at 3:28 pmMc100yearwar should be ashamed of himself.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I hear you backup, kicking somebody in the nuts when they’re down, that’s the best way to help them according to you rethugs. Accommodating someone’s needs! Heaven forbid! And once they’re out of the military, well what have they done for you lately?
April 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pmMy bad: 5 1/2 years as a POW.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pmbackup Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Only if and when it’s applicable.
In Chimpy’s case , we know intelligence has never been present , so it’s a moot point
Sounds selective and less credible.
There are plenty of bright people that aren’t rich. And plenty of bright people with money.
But, when you’re considering Kerry or McCain; it is hard to argue that these aren’t bright men that understand the importance of money. Sad but true.
No
A lot of people had to earn their wealth ; Chimpy inherited his , which is an accident of birth.
He has proven he has no intelligence , these last 7+ years ; that isn’t “selective” on my part.
More like yours (which isn’t a surprise)
April 7th, 2008 at 3:34 pmbackup Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Mc100yearwar should be ashamed of himself.
Okay. The guy (self admittedly) was not a great pilot. He probably only got to (and thru) the Naval Academy because his dad was an admiral.
But, come on, he willingly went into combat. He spent 5 1/2 years in combat.
He doesn’t need to ashamed of his service. The only appropriate response to his military service should be: Thank you for your service to the country.
If you disagree with McCain’s vision for the future, you should oppose him.
But, to try to discredit his military service would be a counter productive exercise that strains credibiity.
Funny
I never see you questioning his credibility when it comes to assessing a ground war , even though he was a sub-standard NAVY PILOT , who doesn’t have the tiniest inkling of what a ground war is about.
I wonder why that is ………………..
April 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pmYou can accomadate someone’s needs to their detriment. (teach a man to fish) (Millionaire Next Door – and the fate of their overaccomadated offspring) I’m not saying that’s what happening with veterans. I’m only saying that it is a possible alternate explanation to a ‘I’ve got mine’ mindset.
Republicans could be wrong on the issue. I suggest that it’s not due to an incompassionate unwillingness to respond to someone’s needs, but more of a difference in ideology.
If we stop trying to accuse each other of malice and focus on the merits (or weakness) of the opposing ideologies, maybe we’ll get to a better solution, quicker.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pmbackup Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Accommodating someone’s needs! Heaven forbid!
You can accomadate someone’s needs to their detriment. (teach a man to fish) (Millionaire Next Door – and the fate of their overaccomadated offspring) I’m not saying that’s what happening with veterans. I’m only saying that it is a possible alternate explanation to a ‘I’ve got mine’ mindset.
Republicans could be wrong on the issue. I suggest that it’s not due to an incompassionate unwillingness to respond to someone’s needs, but more of a difference in ideology.
If we stop trying to accuse each other of malice and focus on the merits (or weakness) of the opposing ideologies, maybe we’ll get to a better solution, quicker.
Where’s the “merit” inherent into sending others (lyingly) into a sovereign nation based upon lies and then ignoring them or not doing the right thing by them when they return home with apparent needs ?
That isn’t an “ideology” ; that’s selfishness , ignorance and callousness ……….
April 7th, 2008 at 3:42 pmsure, capt. – we should all just stand around scratching our heads and being polite – that oughta work out perfectly.
no one can know, just be nice.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pmMSNBC just did a “breaking news” segment on McShitstain’s imbecilic claim that withdrawal like Obabam and Clinton are advocating would indeed be “reckless” ; especially when “our soldiers are so close to achieving their objective”.
Which is what ?
Bankruptcy of the US and a broken military ?
April 7th, 2008 at 3:47 pmYeah, Grampa McSame, but what do you tell the injured and homeless vets on this matter:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Veterans Affairs employees last year racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in government credit-card bills at casino and luxury hotels New-Luxury-Travel-Hot-Spots , movie theaters and high-end retailersStreet-Dreams such as Sharper Image and Franklin Covey — and government auditors are investigating, citing past spending abuses.
All told, VA staff charged $2.6 billion to their government credit cards.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:48 pmGovernment Accountability Office: http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.gao.gov&usg=AFQjCNEbXn7jFDfgj1vHUC349boeADlVMQ
I think reckless could best be defined as calling your Wife a “c*nt” in front of the press like John McCain did.
If it truly takes reckless to know reckless, then maybe the old bastard’s got something.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:50 pmDRxJ Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I love it! According to a few antagonists here, we shouldn’t vote for a candidate based on his position of topics that directly affect us. Instead, we should vote based upon their children’s military experience? Geez, what’s next? Base your vote upon what a candidate’s pastor preached about years ago?
_______________________________________
No, I think people prefer to base their vote on what a candidate’s name sounds like, or whether they look like they need botox (applies if you’re a woman, not if you’re a man).
These measures of suitability are subject to change. Four years ago, a man with a rich wife was deemed unfit for office for that reason. Obviously, that rule has changed this year.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:52 pmtombaker. you’ve got a point. I don’t think the answer is to sit around and ‘be nice’.
It just seems to me, that there is a presumption that today’s leaders are inherently corrupt and self serving.
I think Kerry, or Bush, or Gore, or McCain, or Clinton, or Obama or most of the others of today’s leadership really want the best for the country. I don’t think it is their intent to try to change the world for their own personal benefit.
I think the differences are in the ideology. They really believe differently on how to come to a better future. I just have a feeling that the time we spend attributing the decisions of our leaders to their own self interest, we may be missing the point.
The debate is not ‘which party has the most vituous people in it’ but more ‘which ideology will produce the better future’.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:53 pmDoes McCain even realize that his words are going to get broadcast around the planet? And that his actions are going to be compared with those words?
It sounds like maybe not.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:57 pmMissHusseinMolly ~ are you insinuating that McCain DOESN’T need a little botox around those chipmunk cheeks?
April 7th, 2008 at 3:58 pmMCMetal.
FDR was born to rich parents. He didn’t earn his wealth. But, that doesn’t preclude him from being an effective leader.
I’m not confident that wealth and how it was achieved is determinent in leadership.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:58 pmDr Hussein Matt, I had more hours than that, and I was, for the most part, a freakin clerk.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:58 pmI’m not confident that wealth and how it was achieved is determinent in leadership.
I’m very confident that Bush has shown 0 leadership in his seven pathetic wasted years as president.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:00 pmMatt.
typo for me. I tried to correct it back in #162.
regardless of that, most would probably prefer 5 1/2 years in combat over 5 1/2 years in the Hanoi Hilton.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:00 pmThe man is a warmonger from the cradle to his grave. The straight talk express will not even sign onto the new G.I.Bill
April 7th, 2008 at 4:01 pmas a sponser to save it from being fiilibustered.This is a man who want`s these soldiers to die and get wounded for this country but he won`t take care of them when and if they come home.This is a dispicable man and his running for President.
Matt,
Come on. Forget that it’s McCain. Forget about the medals.
How would you consider a young pilot that got shot down on the first night of War in Iraq? And then spent the next 5 1/2 years in captivity?
Despicable? That doesn’t make any sense. You can disagree with McCain’s politics. And you can oppose his candidancy. That’s freedom.
But, it just doesn’t seem credible to discount McCain’s military service. It just sounds partisan.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:21 pmRUCerious Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
MissHusseinMolly ~ are you insinuating that McCain DOESN’T need a little botox around those chipmunk cheeks?
____________________________________________
LOL — I’m just waiting to see when those chipmunk cheeks get as much media attention as Hillary’s crow’s feet! Geez — even Obama’s ears get a bigger spotlight!
April 7th, 2008 at 4:22 pmtombaker Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
I think reckless could best be defined as calling your Wife a “c*nt” in front of the press like John McCain did.
_________________________________________
And that’s reckless not only because it can put one’s political career at risk, but also one’s marriage. Why Cindy would put up with that is beyond me.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:25 pm183 – yes – let’s forget about the medals, and the campaign speeches, and look at mcmaverick’s actual, documented record in the Senate, which clearly demonstrates he’s a lock-step gop right-winger, of the crooked self-serving Arizona sub-type.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:26 pmMatt.
He refused release, before those that had been there longer. Even though it made his predicament worse, thereafter.
Wouldn’t most people consider that heroic?
April 7th, 2008 at 4:29 pmtombaker. You’re right, his voting record is the real key.
He has a reputation as a maverick; not a lock step republican.
You remember how much problems he had with the right wing and conservative talk radio?
McCain is much more of a moderate than either Obama or Clinton.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:31 pmbackup says; which ideology will produce the better future
well, we all know that better future is all FUBAR under 8 years of rethuglic rule.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:35 pmtombaker.
Here’s a link that ranked the voting records of all senators.
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/pdf/08election.pdf
Obama was the most liberal, Clinton the 16th most liberal.
McCain didn’t make enough votes in 2007 to be ranked (to much time on the biography tour, I guess), but the history of his votes since 1981 are documented in the link. (I think he ended up at 46th most conservative).
This information leads you to believe that McCain’s recent voting record is more moderate than either Clinton and (especially) Obama.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:41 pmhello? captain?
did you see how many times he voted against VA funding? how his environmental votes earned him a 0% rating from the league of conservation voters? do you recall how he bailed out the S&L crooks? how many times he has skipped voting altogether?
you’ve bought the label, and failed to examine what’s actually in the can. mccain sucks by any objective measure, no matter how you slice him, which is why the R’s never nominated him those dozen other times he’s grasped for the brass ring. not because he was over-independent, or insufficiently conservative, but because he sucks.
it’s also unfair as hell to suggest that any criticism of him impugns or disrespects his service in uniform.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:42 pmbackup says:it just doesn’t credible to discount McCain’s military service. it just sounds partisan
Gee, is that why all those people at the 2004 rethuglic party convention wore those bandaids with purple hearts on them? to mock John Kerry’s military service.
remember B.O.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:43 pmpayback is a motherphucker.
Being that he has been on the Govt/DOD dole HIS ENTIRE LIFE, I really don’t think he has the right to deny anyone anything.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:45 pmtombaker. Just because someone serves in the military, doesn’t mean they are a superior choice for president.
I could be misreading it, but it seems that some here discount McCain’s military service (he was only in combat for 20 hours, he was a bad pilot, etc) I suggest, because they don’t like McCain.
I’m only making the point that when you discount McCain’s service, it comes off as insincere and partisan.
It is okay to appreciate McCain’s (and every other soldiers) sacrifice and still disagree with him and oppose his candidancy.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:47 pmUncleHo.
You’re right. And two wrongs don’t make it right.
If you’re interested in payback, you’re admitting that your tactics are no more evolved than your opponents. But, you’re obviously entitled to that sentiment.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:50 pmtombaker. I also wanted you to know that I am concerned with McCain’s opposition to Veteran funding.
This thread and your comments will cause me to investigate them further.
If we want people to fight our wars, we need to take care of them (and their families).
This issue is one of the issues that I have a problem with the Republican party.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:53 pmB.O.
so, you are justifying that it’s ok for the rethuglic party to engage in such tactics, but it’s despicable for dems to follow suit.
H-Y-P-O-C-R-S-Y is the rethuglic party name.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:54 pmbackup Says:
Are you really sure that you want to equate making money (or being rich) with intelligence?
I am only making the equation for people who made their money. Other than sports figures and actors, most people who make large amounts of money through their own efforts are intelligent people.
You don’t have to be smart to inherit money or marry money.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:00 pmI’m not saying it’s okay for republicans to engage in some activity and not okay for democrats.
I’m saying that if you denounce your opposition for a tactic they employ, you probably shouldn’t turn around and employ the same tactic.
You can choose tit for tat; or to provide leadership to a higher ideal.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:01 pmI don`t care that he was POW, he is a warmonger and his voting record showa it!!!!!
April 7th, 2008 at 5:09 pmbackup Says:
Come on. Forget that it’s McCain. Forget about the medals.
How would you consider a young pilot that got shot down on the first night of War in Iraq? And then spent the next 5 1/2 years in captivity?
I wouldn’t consider that soldier to be a “hero”. He would be just a soldier that got caught and held in captivity. And I’m betting he would not have gotten 28 medals for being held in captivity for 5 1/2 years. Those only go to soldiers who have “friends in high places”.
Despicable? That doesn’t make any sense. You can disagree with McCain’s politics. And you can oppose his candidancy. That’s freedom.
Matt didn’t call McCain despicable. He called calling someone a hero for getting shot down and held in captivity despicable.
But, it just doesn’t seem credible to discount McCain’s military service. It just sounds partisan.
There was nothing heroic about his getting shot down and spending time in captivity. And what happened to McCain in Vietnam in no way prepared him for being Commander in Chief unless he plans on being captured and tortured during his presidency (more likely to happen today than back then).
April 7th, 2008 at 5:12 pmbackup Says:
tombaker. You’re right, his voting record is the real key.
He has a reputation as a maverick; not a lock step republican.
Boy, you really have drunk the kool-aid. McCain is no more a moderate or a maverick today than I am President of the United States. He gave all that up a long time ago when he started running for President and pandering to the religious right.
Can you name one position McCain held as a “moderate” and a “maverick” that he still holds today? Thought not.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:14 pmbilbo.
I agree with that.
But, this sounds surprisingly like a conservative argument:
I understand your sentiment, but I think there are enough counter examples (i.e. FDR, Thomas Jefferson, academics; vs. the girls gone wild guy and the money that Paris Hilton made on her own) that water down the argument.
I would hesitate to make a definitive correlation between wealth and intelligence. It was the kind of logic that people of the past used to justify only landowners having the right to vote.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:15 pmcare to answer the question I asked in 202…
April 7th, 2008 at 5:19 pmBilbo.
I’m not saying you should vote for McCain. I’m just saying that this source:
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/pdf/08election.pdf
Ranks Senator Obama as the most liberal. Senator Clinton as the 16th most liberal. And Senator McCain as ranking near the middle 46th most conservative.
Unless the source isn’t credible, it’s a significant argument that McCain is the more moderate of the three.
Again, I’m not suggesting that the moderate candidate is the best. Only that McCain is the more moderate when compared with the other current senators.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:21 pmTax cuts for the wealthy instead of benefits for the Veterans.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:25 pmbackup Says:
April 7th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
You still didn’t answer my question. You are claiming that McCain is a Moderate and a Maverick. I have asked you to give us an example of one moderate position McCain holds today that is different from what the NeoCON right wing believes in. And this should be a position he has held for more than one day.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:31 pmBilbo. I’ll try to answer #202. I admit I’m not an expert and will concede that McCain has moved right in during the primary. (I would wager Obama makes a similar move after August).
I believe that McCain made bipartisan efforts as a member of the gang of 14 offering a compromise the democrats use of a judicial filibuster opposing the republican’s use of the nuclear option.
McCain worked with Feingold for campaign finance reform.
He worked with democrats on a failed effort on illegal immigration issues.
McCain has been vocal on the need to address climate change.
McCain opposed the policies of Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld.
McCain has opposed waterboarding which he declared was torture.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:32 pmJust checked out the “National Journal”. Just what I thought. It’s owned by a right winger, so no, it is not a credible source.
Besides, the last it reported on McCain was in 2006. No reporting in 2007 or 2008. I wonder why? Could it be because of all his pandering?
April 7th, 2008 at 5:35 pmOkay. I don’t think that just because the National Journal is owned by a conservative, that it is automatically not credible. (That would eliminate most of the national media outlets as credible sources).
But, let me try this. NPR is hardly a conservative organization. They come to a similar conclusion about McCain.
Here’s a link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89300339
and here’s a sample:
April 7th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
You just don’t get it. You are talking about McCain’s stands before he started running for President and has pandered his soul.
He was against waterboarding and then voted against a bill that outlawed waterboarding.
He was for campaign finance reform until he became a presidential candidate, now not so much.
He was for some kind of legalization of immigrants, but now he’s against it and for building the fence.
I have asked you to give us ONE MODERATE POSITION THAT JOHN MC CAIN HOLDS TODAY, not back in 2006.
I new you couldn’t do it because there are none. He has gone completely over to the dark side to try to get the neoCON’s to support him.
And you have drunk the koolaid and do not see what is right before your very eyes.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:47 pmGive my just one moderate position McCain holds today that goes against the grain of what the Republican party stands for today.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:50 pmBut, let me try this. NPR is hardly a conservative organization. They come to a similar conclusion about McCain.
And if you believe this, you are a bigger idiot than I had you pegged as. NPR has become very conservative because Bush has packed the management and the board with NeoCONS. I’m hoping that President Obama will reverse this and take NPR back to where they were before Bush took office.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:51 pmOkay. Bilbo. Let me ask you this. Are you going to base McCain on what he’s said during the primary or on his record for the past 20 years?
Another important question: Do you think Obama will moderate some of his positions once the primary is over and the general begins? It happens every time, why won’t it happen this time?
April 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pmGuess this troll couldn’t prove it’s point so it took off. SOP for trolls.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pmOkay. Bilbo. Let me ask you this. Are you going to base McCain on what he’s said during the primary or on his record for the past 20 years?
I will take him at his word, what he says today and what he has been saying since he started running for President. Are you trying to say that McCain is lying to the Republicans to get their support and then will change his views once he is President?
Another important question: Do you think Obama will moderate some of his positions once the primary is over and the general begins? It happens every time, why won’t it happen this time?
I think that Obama will remain true to himself and to what he stands for. That IS NOT something you can say about McCain. He has gone back on every moderate position he ever held to pander to the right. And I don’t think he is lying to them, I think he will remain in neoCON territory if he is elected and this country could not survive another 4 years of Bush/NeoCON rule.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:55 pmSouthern Man Says:
You can’t be this arrogant and ignorant can you?
Here’s a question I have yet to hear a Righty dare to answer: Where are all of “war hero” McCain’s war buddies? Why don’t we hear from them, since McCain is basing his campaign on “military experience?”
Care to take a stab at it?
April 7th, 2008 at 6:33 pmbackup Says:
Are you going to base McCain on what he’s said during the primary or on his record for the past 20 years?
How about you?
Where’s “war hero” McCain’s war buddies, and why aren’t they front and center in his campaign?
April 7th, 2008 at 6:35 pmWe “owe vets a debt” we have NO INTENTION of repaying – after all, the did volunteer!!
April 7th, 2008 at 6:56 pmMcCain is being told what to say by his Neo-Con captors. He’ll say anything to please them so one should just ignore his meaningless statements.
April 7th, 2008 at 7:38 pmbarfly. I’m not blowing you off. Here’s what I think:
McCain is like alot of politicians. I don’t think on a personal level, that he’s that great a guy. I think McCain has a combination of plenty of unsavory things in his past and has also stepped on plenty of toes to get to where he can pursue his vision for the country. I don’t doubt that many of his associates aren’t willing to buddy up. He’s a politician. One that doesn’t seem to mind being objectionable.
I think when you’ve got to choose between politicians, what’s more important is experience and voting record.
And I disagree with the assertion that McCain is basing his campaign on his military experience.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:16 pmBilbo,
I hope you’re right about Obama. But, if he’s like every other politician, he’ll feel compelled to race to the center after he wraps up the primary.
Even as strong a position that democrats have this year, he’ll still want to get as many independants (and yes some republicans) as he can. Just to be sure. The time honored way to do that, is to moderate your positions to appeal to the broader audience of the general election.
It will be interesting to watch.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:32 pmThe sickest thing I heard today is Obama and McCain are running neck and neck. Has this country lost it’s collective mind?
April 7th, 2008 at 9:34 pmIt’s my contention to let dissenters post here. So, you’re not lulled into the false idea that everyone sees it as it is here.
The U.S. is split relatively 50-50. It should be the democrats turn (after 8 years of GW), but keep your eyes open, (and don’t take anything for granted) because anything could happen.
April 7th, 2008 at 11:13 pmI support the troops is nothing more than a cheap tag line that Aholes use to get votes. This guy has some serious mental issues he needs to confront. Sen. Thad Cochran said he has anger issues and so did fellow Miss Republican Trent Lott as well as other GOP leaders. They are only supporting him based on party. They know what the media is trying to hide, this man’s temper could lead us into a situation we can’t get out of.
Just look at whose supporting him (Joe Israeli Liebermann). They want to attack Iran and the people have no idea what they’d be getting with him as our leader. If voters want to really piss off Muslims, just go right ahead and attack Iran like McCain and Liebermann want to. The stupid voters who support this man based on being the media darling are about to lead us right into the abyss.
April 8th, 2008 at 8:33 amJust look at whose supporting him (Joe Israeli Liebermann). They want to attack Iran and the people have no idea what they’d be getting with him as our leader. If voters want to really piss off Muslims, just go right ahead and attack Iran like McCain and Liebermann want to. The stupid voters who support this man based on being the media darling
April 29th, 2008 at 2:00 amBuy cialis online is a revolutionary drug used
to treat Erectile Dysfunction. Cialis stays in the system for up to 24 hours and with
fewer side effects.It is now available for sale in the US market.
This is another example that the “old world jounalism of Murrow, Cronkite and Rather is dead and buried. In the case of the Time Magazine reporter Ms Tumulty, she seems to think the finding out the who, what, where, when and how have been replaced with a steno pad, which she records what ABC said in rebuttle to the complaint of Congressman Kucinich. There is a great disconnect with what happened and the points made by ABC. She asks little of no questions to ABC. She takes what is handed to her and repeats it vebatim and then calls that reporting. I call is stenography. Lida Sohbet sohbet sesli chat Gelinlik Modelleri
January 11th, 2009 at 10:33 amApparently Obama literally backed McCain up against the wall in the Senate today and gave him a talking to.
Right on!
erotik
January 21st, 2009 at 8:24 amtatil
erotik
tatil
erotik
January 21st, 2009 at 8:26 amtatil
If you’re referring to Karl Schwarz’ articles, if they are true, how will we ever know unless the news media gets involved without bias? The military under orders not to speak out may never convey Karl Scharz’ expose’. Sesli Sohbet If Cheney was truly involved in 9/11 and protected in some way, then he’s being protected by what may be going on in the Caspian Sea area as well. That pre-9/11 August 10, 2000 article drives the point home to me that Cheney had a vested interest in the oil at the Caspian Sea area (before 9/11). Fx15 From all I’ve read in Schwarz’ articles, he claims the Taliban was working on a deal with Argentina with that pipeline in the Caspian Sea area and UNOCOL wanted the deal instead. Orjinal Lida It’s too much to get into here and I’m not able to convey in here what Schwarz has presented in his articles. Sikis Dig into Schwarz’ articles to learn more about the unnamed soldier’s experiences related to so-called Black Ops missions in the Caspian Sea area in Schwarz’ article. What Schwarz had to present in this article is an eye opener: kurtlar vadisi pusu izle
January 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmthanks Lida Dai Dai Hua Jiao Nang Seo Yar??mas?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 amThank you very much.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:23 pmsesli chat
sesli sohbet
sesli chat
sesli sohbet
I want suits in Colorado, New Jersey, and any other state where illegal suppression campaigns are being conducted. And some real looks at the polling methodology would also be eye opening.
mynet
February 4th, 2009 at 1:30 pmdizi izle
sohbet odalari
ttnet sohbet
thanks you man
netlog
February 4th, 2009 at 1:47 pmbayan
sohbet
As I’ve said before, Sarah Palin is the ENERGIZER Bunny that keeps going, and going, and irritatingly keeps going some more. She should go away for a while, and get her act together. Staying in people’s faces just makes people not what to listen to her or have anything to do with with
February 5th, 2009 at 3:56 pmporno turk
sikis
porno video izlesene
There was a brief footnote in the report that quoted William Worfel, former vice chairman of the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana, saying that Abramoff told the chief of a Mississippi tribe to spend $13 million “to get the governor of Alabama elected to keep gaming out of Alabama so it wouldn’t hurt … his market in Mississippi
The disgrace of Walter Reed must not be forgotten. … Whatever our commitments to veterans cost, we will keep them
February 9th, 2009 at 10:12 amJust like the cold war when everyone who didn’t agree with the U.S. was either a communist or a communist sympathizer. Lida This poor crazy guy spent half a decade being tortured because a bunch of stupid politicians Lida were sure the NVA was in bed with the Russians (minimal help) and/or the Chinese (ancient enemy of the vietnamese). Orjinal Lida You would think he would have learned from others’ mistakes. Guess not. Republicans need an enemy. yuda This century it apparently will be all Muslims, Elektronik Sigara all of whom must be alQaeda operatives.
February 9th, 2009 at 10:50 pmJust like the cold war when everyone who didn’t agree with the U.S. was either a communist or a communist sympathizer. toki This poor crazy guy spent half a decade being tortured because a bunch
of stupid politicians araç sorgulama were sure the NVA
was in bed with the Russians (minimal help) and/or the Chinese (ancient enemy of the vietnamese). ssk sorgulama You would think he would have learned from others’
mistakes. Guess not. Republicans need an enemy. key ödemeleri This
century it apparently will be all Muslims, kredi all of whom must
be alQaeda operatives.
February 28th, 2009 at 7:41 pmthanks you blog porno oralsexanalsexlezbiyen sikisveryy good
April 4th, 2009 at 6:40 ambu yararli bilgi icin youtube ve youtube olarak tesekkur ederiz.
April 9th, 2009 at 4:09 pmturk porno sex porno izle sex sitesi sekx siteleri
April 12th, 2009 at 12:44 pmhttp://www.chatturkey.com/index.php
http://www.chatturkey.com/sohbet.php
that page all about chat sohbet muhabbet turkey chat türkiye chat türkiye muhabbet, muhabbet sohbet canli ara yap bul bak
sohbet
April 14th, 2009 at 3:42 pmThank you very much.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:10 amSesli Sohbet
Sesli Chat
SesliSohbet
SesliChat
Thank you very much.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:10 amSesli Sohbet
Sesli Chat
SesliSohbet
SesliChat