McCain’s ‘gaffe’ on South Philly.
In a recent radio interview with Tavis Smiley, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said that he was going to talk to African-American voters by going “all over this country. I’m going to go to South Philadelphia, I’m going to go to the Black Belt in Alabama.” An op-ed in the Philadelphia Daily News, however, fact-checks McCain:
If McCain wants to win over black voters, first he’d better know where to find them.
South Philly has changed from a mostly Italian-heritage enclave to one that includes growing numbers of Asians and Hispanics. According to the latest census, while Philadelphia is a majority-minority city, African-Americans are less than a third of the population in South Philadelphia.
The press had a field day with John Kerry’s swiss cheese moment - front-page news in our town.
But McCain’s gaffes, and his serious policy differences with most Americans, attract much less press and public attention. They don’t seem to make a dent in McCain’s self-portrait as the most seasoned and experienced candidate for the presidency.
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McSame: “I’m gonna show those black folks that us Republicans aren’t near the bigots they think we are.”
If you are a republican then you are a hateful bigot, that is what their party is all about.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:12 pmHmm.. i think i can let this one slide. For someone who doesnt know the difference between Shiite and Sunni i didnt expect him to know the demographics of the Philadelphia populous. Has he released his medical records yet?
April 9th, 2008 at 1:12 pmThey don’t seem to make a dent in McCain’s self-portrait as the most seasoned and experienced candidate for the presidency.
“Seasoned and experienced” = soaking in Chimpy juice and old
April 9th, 2008 at 1:12 pmSmart democratic strategists should (and will, if they want to win the WH) expose McCain’s appalling lack of knowledge in areas of foreign policy and domestic issues alike. You can run but you can’t hide from video and Youtube!
April 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pmSkunk doesn’t smell itself…
April 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pmHas he released his medical records yet?
Nope, and he’s not going to. Instead he is going to trot out his physicians for the press to question. And if you think they are going to give the press a straight answer, think again.
I love the “physicians”. I wonder how many he has and if he’s in perfect health, why does he need more than one?
April 9th, 2008 at 1:16 pmBetter quit pointing out the senile guy’s mistakes.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:16 pmYou’ll piss the old coot off.
“My friends, I have watched every episode of “The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, and I know the theme song by heart. No one can say that I do not know everything about the African-American Community - they are not just some obscure sect of Shi’a, or Sunni, or whoever.”
April 9th, 2008 at 1:19 pmIs America, black or not, really going to elect a guy with what looks like a light bulb growing out of his cheek?
_AIO_
April 9th, 2008 at 1:19 pmSen. McCain would do better to visit the geriatric ward at the U of Penn hospital. Most of the voters in Philadelphia who support him can be found there. Pray for their health John.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:20 pm“I love the “physicians”. I wonder how many he has and if he’s in perfect health, why does he need more than one?”
Haha. I know Bilbo. The guy reminds of that Simpsons episode where Mr Burns is told that the only thing keeping him alive is that he has every disease there is, including new ones. And they balance each other out. McCain needs a sherpa to get out of bed in the morning.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:21 pmSouth Philly, Shiites, Sunnis, what’s the difference?
Seriously, I cannot wait for the Presidential debates between McSame and Obama.
It will prove to be just as humorous as when TripMaster Monkey used to take on Jake, Mr.P, and other nonsensical trolls.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pmI’m going to go to the Black Belt in Alabama…
With any luck that Black Belt will KO the Koot.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:24 pmWell no surprise as McCain said he didn’t know many Black people. So much has changed in the last 50 years as McCain just needs to be guided to the changes that US has made. He could as one of the older Black Law Makers what has changed. Well even Pattie Labelle still lives in Germantown he might look her up. Roslyn PA. is no longer the same as it was 50 years ago, even generations of kids have grown up with equality. McCain should just do a video and send it to all the states and do what Senator Vitters did. Just cry and say I have sinned and ask God and the people for forgiveness and their vote. It worked with Preachers and Vitters it just might get a few votes from sympathy.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:24 pmEh. We can “keep our Tiger Woods’” - they “have John McCain.”
*eyeroll*
April 9th, 2008 at 1:27 pmPhoto caption : These thumbs were just up Lieberman’s and Graham’s stupid asses………
April 9th, 2008 at 1:27 pmL. Hussein Annie Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Eh. We can “keep our Tiger Woods’” - they “have John McCain.”
*eyeroll*
I still do not understand the meaning of that statement , btw……
Tiger Woods is the most dominant athlete in any sport on the planet ; McStupid is a senile old twit , who never excelled at anything , save crashing planes………..
April 9th, 2008 at 1:29 pmBTW, for those who don’t recognize the above-referenced quote, it was from the guy who introduced Grampus yesterday:
David Bellavia of “Vets for Freedom” at the pro-war rally today attended by Sen. John McCain in D.C., in introducing Sen. McCain, said “you can keep your Tiger Woods, we’ll take Sen. McCain.”
Sen. Lindsey Graham tried to blow it over saying in follow-up that he would gladly abandon McCain for a round of golf with Woods.
Dr. Michael Dyson on Olbermann tonight: “I guess one multi-racial black-skinned man is like another.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/ discuss/ duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×3128207
April 9th, 2008 at 1:30 pm“I’m going to South Philadelphia…”
“And I’m going to eat a big ol’ sloppy cheesesteak with everything and show that pansy Osa - er, Obama, how a real man chows down on a honest-to-God All-American sammich.”
April 9th, 2008 at 1:32 pmIf philadelphia is majority-minority, one-third African American is a pretty big chunk.
It’s interesting that you’re bemoaning that McCain doesn’t know where to find African Americans.
But, to do it, you have to concede that he’s interested. Good for John McCain if he sees the value in working for the African American vote.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pmThe thing I find amazing is that McCain is polling at under 50% in national match up’s with Clinton and Obama. Why is that amazing? Because he has no where to go but down. Right now he is running unopposed and the press is still calling him a moderate, a hero and a “maverick”. Once the public finds out who McCain really is, do you think that his poll numbers are going to go up? Not likely!
I had a conversation with a co-worker the other day about McCain. He was going on about what a military hero McCain was and I asked him if he knew where McCain graduated at Annapolis. The guy said “at the top of his class”. When I told him that McCain graduated fifth from the bottom and crashed 5 airplanes before he went to Vietnam, he wouldn’t believe me. I had to do a “google” and show him it was true. I also asked him if all the other prisoners of war at the Hanoi Hilton were “heroes” and should have been awarded 28 metals for it, he said “No, McCain was really a hero”. But, he couldn’t explain why McCain was a hero and the others were not. By the time I was done talking to the jerk, I had a real headache. Taught me a lesson. Never try to talk facts with a Republican.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:35 pm“But McCain’s gaffes, and his serious policy differences with most Americans, attract much less press and public attention. They don’t seem to make a dent in McCain’s self-portrait as the most seasoned and experienced candidate for the presidency.”
You can lay the blame for this on the corporate media. Attack Democrats, but leave Republicans alone. The middle class better wake up before it’s all gone.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:36 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
If philadelphia is majority-minority, one-third African American is a pretty big chunk.
It’s interesting that you’re bemoaning that McCain doesn’t know where to find African Americans.
But, to do it, you have to concede that he’s interested. Good for John McCain if he sees the value in working for the African American vote.
Yeah , nothing like a war monger who is equal-opportunity when it comes to sacrificing lives ……….
April 9th, 2008 at 1:36 pmBut, to do it, you have to concede that he’s interested. Good for John McCain if he sees the value in working for the African American vote.
And good luck with that. I doubt that he is going to attract any African American votes. I’m not sure why he even bothers. Especially after comments like his supporter made introducing him yesterday saying “They have Tiger Woods, we have John McCain”. Now if that’s not a marginalizing bigoted remark, I don’t know what is. And McCain had nothing to say about it.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:37 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
But, to do it, you have to concede that he’s interested. Good for John McCain if he sees the value in working for the African American vote.
And good luck with that. I doubt that he is going to attract any African American votes. I’m not sure why he even bothers. Especially after comments like his supporter made introducing him yesterday saying “They have Tiger Woods, we have John McCain”. Now if that’s not a marginalizing bigoted remark, I don’t know what is. And McCain had nothing to say about it.
But the statement , in of of itself , is nonsensical (though it is indeed racist).
Tiger Woods is the most dominant (male) athlete in any sport on the planet ; John McStupid was a well below average student , pilot , and now Senator and presidential candidate.
Was the dummy who uttered that remark trying to exclaim he and the GOP would rather be about mediocrity ?
Then again ; mediocrity is actually a huge step above where the GOP currently resides………….
April 9th, 2008 at 1:42 pmHis “experience” line is getting tiresome. Before I finally quit smoking 6 years ago, I used to joke that I could quit smoking anytime…It’s easy…I’ve done it 20 times. That just reminds me of McCain and his ’successes’.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:42 pmI’m wondering if McCain gets all his information off of AM radio. There’s ‘bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran”, played on tthe air by Chicago’s Steve dahl in 1980, and now what he knows about Philly he gets from Gamble & Huff records?
April 9th, 2008 at 1:44 pmMFSB, Sidney! ESAD!
.
Johnny McTorture McSpeaks … A G A I N!
.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:49 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
If philadelphia is majority-minority, one-third African American is a pretty big chunk.
It’s interesting that you’re bemoaning that McCain doesn’t know where to find African Americans.
But, to do it, you have to concede that he’s interested. Good for John McCain if he sees the value in working for the African American vote.
You believe a sound bite , which actually reveals the person’s total ignorance on the subject , proves that person’s “interest” ?
Sheesh ……..Lemme’ guess on who you’re supporting and gonna’ vote for in November……………
April 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pmThis is always what happens with Republicans. Here’s the math - Republicans do not value intelligence as highly as say posturing, therefore the media lowers the bar for them. It was the same with Bush. He didn’t even have to enunciate properly or know the names of the leaders in countries pertinent to US foreign policy.
Can’t wait to see what the grading scale is like for the presidential debates…
April 9th, 2008 at 1:51 pmSee, Cap’n, it’s posts like this that pushed me to decide that your “moderate looking for answers” pose is a fraud.
If McCain was so damn interested in actually finding black folks, rather than using his “search” as a sound bite, he’d probably have researched. Or at least had someone else research, and they would have told him to look for blacks in West Philly, rather than South Philly (which, coincidentally, is home to Republican-friendly Geno’s Steaks, where anyone speaking in any language other than English is refused service).
Yeah, good for McCain. We need another president whose stupid gaffs make him more like a “reg’lar guy”. Well I think it’s time we had a higher standard for our president, but that’s just me.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:54 pm#29 MCMetal Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
One could argue that IF McTorture cared, then he would care to know the facts. But trolls don’t like facts, they’re too liberal. This is why sound bites and bumper stickers are effective tools for these people. Because to use them requires no thought what so ever to plaster them on… NO?
April 9th, 2008 at 1:55 pmI suppose I should have said “look for a black community in West Philly”. There are obviously blacks throughout Philadelphia; but if McCain wants to specifically connect with African-Americans, he really should go to where they’re concentrated and established.
If he just wants to appear like he’s concerned about minorities without actually having to do anything, then his strategy is working just fine. The press will eat it up.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:57 pmMax-1 Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
#29 MCMetal Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
One could argue that IF McTorture cared, then he would care to know the facts. But trolls don’t like facts, they’re too liberal. This is why sound bites and bumper stickers are effective tools for these people. Because to use them requires no thought what so ever to plaster them on… NO?
These GOP/Chimpy nut huggers are simply astounding.
As long as their candidate(s) make a statement , any statement , that seems as if they care , that’s all that matters.
The illusion of legitmacy is enough for them ; could you be less demanding of those who are supposed to REPRESENT US AND WORK FOR US ???????
April 9th, 2008 at 2:00 pmBilbo. You know what they call you when you graduate 5th from the bottom of your class at the Naval Academy?
They call you, ‘Sir’.
It doesn’t matter too much (and McCain is very up front with it) where he graduated in the class standing and how good a pilot he was.
He suited up and served his country. Willingly went into combat. Spent 5 1/2 years as a POW. He actually refused the release the North Vietnamese wanted to give him, because others had been there longer. That refusal resulted in a degradation of his already bad circumstance.
Any attempt to discount McCain’s service only results in discrediting your other, more relevant criticisms of him.
Stick to the issues. I assure you, they are much more furtile grounds.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:01 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I suppose I should have said “look for a black community in West Philly”. There are obviously blacks throughout Philadelphia; but if McCain wants to specifically connect with African-Americans, he really should go to where they’re concentrated and established.
Yes, and while he’s in West Philly, he should explain his “economic plan” to them. He probably wouldn’t walk out in one piece.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:01 pmHasn’t McCain come out against the use of waterboarding?
April 9th, 2008 at 2:03 pmUh. Hello. The “Black Belt” is not called that because of the people that live there. The name derives from the soil.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:05 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Johnny McTorture McSpeaks … A G A I N!
Hasn’t McCain come out against the use of waterboarding?
Nope
He voted against the bill banning torture………
April 9th, 2008 at 2:05 pmIn South Philadelphia,
April 9th, 2008 at 2:06 pmborn an’ raised,
on the playground is where i spent mosta my days,
Chillin out, maxin’, relaxin’ all cool,
An’ all shootin some B-ball outside of the school,
When a couple o’ guys who were up to no good,
Started makin’ trouble in my neighbourhood,
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared,
She said ‘You’re movin with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air!’
In a recent radio interview with Tavis Smiley, Sen. John McCain…
I’ve watched Smiley. Nice guy, but definitely not conservative.
McCain is talking with him because he’s interested in the black vote.
Democrats that refused to debate on Fox may want to take some notes.
If someone wants to be president, they need to understand that they will be the president of everyone, not just those that agree with them.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:07 pmWell, this is what McCain says in front of republicans:
http://www.newser.com/story/2261.html
April 9th, 2008 at 2:09 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Any attempt to discount McCain’s service only results in discrediting your other, more relevant criticisms of him.
According to whom , and why ?
Did you feel/say the same thing about the Swift Boat Liars for Shrub ?
And , no , it doesn’t work that way ; a relevant criticism is a relevant criticism.
It isn’t “diminished” because of a non-related item ; and especially not over your say-so …………..
April 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pmbackup Says:
If someone wants to be president, they need to understand that they will be the president of everyone, not just those that agree with them.
Someone needs to drop this bombshell on the Chimperor, Five Deferment Dick, Mike Mukasey, CondiLIESalot and the rest of the war criminals in the Administration.
Oh, I forgot - IOIYAR. Accountability is for Dems only.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pmMcSidney is always looking for another bloc of voters that he can tell exactly what they want to hear.
Problem is, African Americans aren’t going to swallow Johnny’s BS the way the GOPers do.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pmAh, but MCM, you’re not giving McCain credit for speaking out against torture; you’re only basing your judgement on the way he actually voted.
That’s not fair. You know Republicans would prefer it if we judged them by their words and not by their actions.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:14 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Democrats that refused to debate on Fox may want to take some notes.
If someone wants to be president, they need to understand that they will be the president of everyone, not just those that agree with them.
Democrats refused to debate on Fox because they chose not to confer credibility on a right wing propaganda network. Since the only people who watch “FoxNews” are people looking for affirmation of their neoconservative ideology, there’s no reason to try to woo their votes.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Hasn’t McCain come out against the use of waterboarding?
Nope
Well, this is what McCain says in front of republicans:
http://www.newser.com/story/2261.html
Thanks for posting what McLiar claimed to a large group of the mentally inferior ………..
But actions speak louder than words .
http://www.senate.gov/ legislative/ LIS/ roll_call_lists/ roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00022
April 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pmYou’re right. It’s only what I believe.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:16 pmHey! McPander! Seen the latest week’s worth of Gallup daily tracking poll???
McCain (R) Obama (D) Other (vol.) Neither (vol.) Unsure
4/8/08 — 44 — 46 — 1 — 5 — 5
4/7/08 — 44 — 45 — 1 — 5 — 4
4/6/08 — 45 — 45 — 1 — 5 — 4
4/5/08 — 45 — 45 — 1 — 5 — 4
4/4/08 — 45 — 45 — 1 — 5 — 4
4/3/08 — 46 — 45 — 1 — 5 — 4
4/2/08 — 46 — 45 — 1 — 4 — 5
4/1/08 — 46 — 44 — 1 — 4 — 4
Hmmmmm?????????
April 9th, 2008 at 2:17 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
and especially not over your say-so
You’re right. It’s only what I believe.
Which is all things Republican ; in other words , complete bullshit ……..
April 9th, 2008 at 2:19 pmWell said, gumm. I doubt if the Cap’n will hear you, but it was well worth a shot.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:21 pmBTW backup
How is what “you believe” of any relevance ?
You laughably believe speaking out against torture is more meaningful than the way the same jackass actually voted on it.
You possess all the depth of a drop of bug urine………..
April 9th, 2008 at 2:22 pmMCMetal.
McCain has come out against waterboarding, slthough he voted against that particular bill.
4 senators chose not to vote. Clinton and Obama were two of the four.
If the bill was that significant, don’t you think that Clinton and Obama would have been there? And voted for the bill?
I suggest that the bill is not as significant (or potentially beneficial and devoid of pitfalls) as you may believe it is.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:23 pmYeah, you’re right, Cap’n. The actions of others certainly excuse McCain’s vote to allow torture.
Party of Personal Responsibility, huh?
April 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pmwhat a dope. seriously.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pmralph and gummitch. I understand you points about Fox.
But, the network has big ratings. Alot of people watch.
I know you discredit it, but Clinton was on yesterday morning and Rendell has said that Fox’s coverage has been the fairest of the major networks.
It’s not just my opinion.
Democrats and progressives can continue to avoid Fox. But, I think that tactic has the unintended consequence of fostering a believe that progressives are trying to avoid tough questions.
Democrats can do whatever they want to do. I just suggest that it is a large audience, that might be worth courting.
Most of the people that listen to Travis Smiley, won’t vote for John McCain. But, McCain still did the interview.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:28 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
MCMetal.
McCain has come out against waterboarding, slthough he voted against that particular bill.
4 senators chose not to vote. Clinton and Obama were two of the four.
If the bill was that significant, don’t you think that Clinton and Obama would have been there? And voted for the bill?
I suggest that the bill is not as significant (or potentially beneficial and devoid of pitfalls) as you may believe it is.
This isn’t a discussion about Obama nor Ms Clinton ; it’s about McStupid and his ACTION(S) , as opposed to what he stupidly sputters out along with the lame “My Friends”…….
And is your claim that the bill itself “is not as significant (or potentially beneficial and devoid of pitfalls)” the best you can do ?
Especially when your opinion of the bill itself wasn’t requested ?
And even moreso after seeing as how you believe a statement by McStupid , even though it is grossly inaccurate and borderline idiotic , somehow proves his “interest” in the African American community/vote ………..
April 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pmhe might’ve had a chance at getting a few votes from south philly, but not anymore
April 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pmYou bring up the parties. Let’s look at your logic.
The senate is controlled by democrats, not republicans.
And the bill failed.
If the bill was that important, why didn’t the democrats, that control congress, pass it?
And if the bill was that important, why were both democrat candidates for president, not there?
You continue to protest republican leadership, even when they no longer have it.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pmMCMetal. You lament McCains stance on the bill. Okay.
Do you lament Obama and Clinton for not caring enough about the issue to even cast a vote?
April 9th, 2008 at 2:38 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
ralph and gummitch. I understand you points about Fox.
But, the network has big ratings. Alot of people watch.
I know you discredit it, but Clinton was on yesterday morning and Rendell has said that Fox’s coverage has been the fairest of the major networks.
It’s not just my opinion.
Democrats and progressives can continue to avoid Fox. But, I think that tactic has the unintended consequence of fostering a believe that progressives are trying to avoid tough questions.
Democrats can do whatever they want to do. I just suggest that it is a large audience, that might be worth courting.
Most of the people that listen to Travis Smiley, won’t vote for John McCain. But, McCain still did the interview.
The only people who think that progressives are avoiding tough questions are the FoxNews demographic. The point you keep avoiding is that FoxNews is a propaganda network, it’s not a “news” network. Clinton was also willing to sit down with Richard Mellon Scaife, the very man who had funded attacks on the Clintons throughout Bill’s presidency. All this proves is that she’s desperate and lacking a conscience.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:38 pmIt’s Funky NORTH Philly.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:40 pmBill Cosby sang it and he’s the same generation as McCain.
Go find ‘em McCain. Use the bomb sniffing dogs to find those African-Americans in Philly! Release the hounds! LOL!
April 9th, 2008 at 2:41 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
MCMetal. You lament McCains stance on the bill. Okay.
Do you lament Obama and Clinton for not caring enough about the issue to even cast a vote?
No
Because I’m not prattling on about either of their supposed stances on torture , in direct contrast to how they actually voted.
You’re laughably attempting to defend McStupid’s blatant hypocrisy.
You are no “moderate” , BTW……….
April 9th, 2008 at 2:41 pmThis just in from the front seat of the STRAIGHT TALK EXPRESS…
Republican presidential nominee John McCain has announced a new media blitz campaign designed to re-energized support amongst his Republican base, taking a page from Ronald Reagan’s campaign, McCain announced the
“Win One for the Gaffer!” program.
“Come everybody, we’ve all wanted to bomb some c***s over in Vietnam, er, Iran. I’ve been fighting Al-Qaeda since they held me prisoner …”
April 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pmThat crazy renegade maverick, filled with the hijinx…
gummitch. I personally believe that Fox can be considered right wing propaganda. But, I also believe that there is no such thing as unbiased media.
Everyone has an agenda. That’s a reality of life.
Democrats don’t have to acknowledge Fox.
I just think it’s a mistake.
You leave the large audience of Fox viewers to believe anything the producers of Fox want to report.
The information is unchallenged and unanswered. Undisputed.
Wouldn’t a more prudent tactic be to engage the viewers? Try to persuade them that the disinformation they get at Fox is partisan and inaccurate?
Do what you want. If it was me, I’d want my message out. And I wouldn’t avoid the numbers over at Fox. Unless, I felt very confident, that I didn’t need them to win.
And by the current look of the polling submitted about (46-44; significantly tied), I wouldn’t be that confident.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Yeah, you’re right, Cap’n. The actions of others certainly excuse McCain’s vote to allow torture.
Party of Personal Responsibility, huh?
You bring up the parties. Let’s look at your logic.
The senate is controlled by democrats, not republicans.
And the bill failed.
If the bill was that important, why didn’t the democrats, that control congress, pass it?
And if the bill was that important, why were both democrat candidates for president, not there?
You continue to protest republican leadership, even when they no longer have it.
The bill DID PASS , you GOP stooge ; the retarded monkey dick in the Oval Office VETOED it.
It needed 2/3 rds approval to be enacted ; and it couldn’t even get out of the House because of the obstructionist , horseshit GOP
Get your facts straight before trying to bullshit everyone……….
April 9th, 2008 at 2:49 pmmccain is just not that bright.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:50 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
gummitch. I personally believe that Fox can be considered right wing propaganda. But, I also believe that there is no such thing as unbiased media.
Everyone has an agenda. That’s a reality of life.
Democrats don’t have to acknowledge Fox.
I just think it’s a mistake.
You leave the large audience of Fox viewers to believe anything the producers of Fox want to report.
The information is unchallenged and unanswered. Undisputed.
Wouldn’t a more prudent tactic be to engage the viewers? Try to persuade them that the disinformation they get at Fox is partisan and inaccurate?
Do what you want. If it was me, I’d want my message out. And I wouldn’t avoid the numbers over at Fox. Unless, I felt very confident, that I didn’t need them to win.
And by the current look of the polling submitted about (46-44; significantly tied), I wouldn’t be that confident.
Record registration of those who identify themselves as Dems.
Record primary voting turn-out.
Record viewership during the Dem debates.
Obama or Ms Clinton , whoever has come in SECOND in any given state , has just about DOUBLED THE NUMBER OF PRIMARY VOTES MCJACKASS RECEIVED IN WINNING THE SAME STATE ON THE HORSESHIT GOP SIDE.
Stop talking out your stupid ass , you GOP tool , you’re fouling the air……….
April 9th, 2008 at 2:52 pmFUX NEWTS = The Voice of American Crazy
April 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm“Because I’m not prattling on about either of their supposed stances on torture , in direct contrast to how they actually voted.
You’re laughably attempting to defend McStupid’s blatant hypocrisy.”
Okay, MCMetal. You bring up McCains vote on a torture bill as significant.
Okay.
I question how significant the bill was, by pointing out that both Clinton and Obama didn’t even bother to cast a vote.
I actually believe the reason for their absense was duplicitous.
They don’t want to offend left wing voters by voting against the measure. But, they don’t want to support the measure, because it’s not good legislation.
If you’re upset with McCain’s vote (which is probably much different than his stance on waterboarding), I understand.
But, to say that how democrats (Clinton and Obama) voted on the very same legilation is irrelevant, seems partisan and selective.
Abstaining from difficult descisions, is not leadership.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pmI have a hard time seeing how this is really a gaffe. Very few neighborhoods in America are totally homogenous. Even in areas that are known for being home to a particular people there can be large percentages of others. Not everyone who lives in Little Saigon is going to be Vietnamese, but that’s going to be a good place to find an authentic Vietnamese restaurant and grocery.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:58 pmi wish mccain could be president for 100 years; that way he could personally oversee the fulfillment of his promise to keep the american military in iraq for that time period.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm“We know where the Blacks are, they’re East, West, North, and South of here”.
Shut up idiot!!!
RIP
April 9th, 2008 at 3:01 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
backup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
“Because I’m not prattling on about either of their supposed stances on torture , in direct contrast to how they actually voted.
You’re laughably attempting to defend McStupid’s blatant hypocrisy.”
Okay, MCMetal. You bring up McCains vote on a torture bill as significant.
Okay.
I question how significant the bill was, by pointing out that both Clinton and Obama didn’t even bother to cast a vote.
I actually believe the reason for their absense was duplicitous.
They don’t want to offend left wing voters by voting against the measure. But, they don’t want to support the measure, because it’s not good legislation.
If you’re upset with McCain’s vote (which is probably much different than his stance on waterboarding), I understand.
But, to say that how democrats (Clinton and Obama) voted on the very same legilation is irrelevant, seems partisan and selective.
Abstaining from difficult descisions, is not leadership.
Post a link where either Obama and/or Ms Clinton (or both) , rhapsodized incessantly on how against torture they were ; that will get me to condemn either or both of them (on some level).
And even then , the bill STILL PASSED ; do you understand that ?
And they were not present to vote ; they did not go on endlessly about being against torture wholeheartedly , and then VOTE AGAINST BANNING IT.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:02 pmMCMetal. Okay. I’m an idiot.
Apparently, it is much wiser for the democratic party to ignore Fox news viewers. In national elections that have come down to 1,000 votes and often are decided in state totals by less than 100,000, it would probably be ignorant to even consider these numbers:
Here’s the source:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6464842.html
April 9th, 2008 at 3:06 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
You bring up the parties. Let’s look at your logic.
The senate is controlled by democrats, not republicans.
And the bill failed.
If the bill was that important, why didn’t the democrats, that control congress, pass it?
And if the bill was that important, why were both democrat candidates for president, not there?
You continue to protest republican leadership, even when they no longer have it.
Backup - first of all, Democrats have the smallest margin of “control,” 51-49%. Of those, Lieberman usually votes with the Republicans…so there goes the “majority.” Additionally, thanks to the procedural requirement that Republicans have insisted on (and while this is allowed is beyond me), it takes 60 votes to cut off debate (filibuster) to bring any bill to a vote. So it wasn’t actually the bill that failed here; it was the ability to even VOTE ON IT that failed!
As far as neither Clinton nor Obama being in chambers voting to end cloture, I agree with you. They should have been there. But keep in mind, anti-torture sentiments have been a prime claim of McCain’s. And yet…he voted against closure. Lastly, Graham also didn’t vote, and he is well known for wanting interrogations to follow military guidelines…or at least he USED to.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:06 pm“I have a hard time seeing how this is really a gaffe.”
thanks for letting me know that you don’t know thing one about philadelphia.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:07 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
MCMetal. Okay. I’m an idiot.
Apparently, it is much wiser for the democratic party to ignore Fox news viewers. In national elections that have come down to 1,000 votes and often are decided in state totals by less than 100,000, it would probably be ignorant to even consider these numbers:
According to your theory, the Democratic Party is “ignoring” FoxNews viewers by refusing to debate on their programs. Thus it would follow that these viewers can be reached by no other method, which would mean that these viewers rely entirely on FoxNews for their information. Anyone who relies entirely on FoxNews for their information is unreachable and unteachable, so there is no possible reason why Democrats would spend time and effort trying to appeal to them for votes. Post whatever numbers you want, the core demographic of the FoxNews audience is never going to vote for a Democrat not named Lieberman.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:09 pmMCMetal. I concede your point about the bill passing.
Would you concede that McCain’s stance on the particular torture bill, is not necessarily inconsistent with his stance on waterboarding?
And I find it illogical, that if he wanted to be inconsistent - why would he chose a republican primary debate to promote the progressive position?
Seems backward to me and inclines me to believe that there is more to the torture bill, then waterboarding.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
MCMetal. Okay. I’m an idiot.
Apparently, it is much wiser for the democratic party to ignore Fox news viewers. In national elections that have come down to 1,000 votes and often are decided in state totals by less than 100,000, it would probably be ignorant to even consider these numbers:
The O’Reilly Factor was the top cable news program, averaging 1.9 million viewers. Also in the top five: Fox’s Hannity & Colmes (1.4 million viewers); The Fox Report with Shepard Smith (1.3 million); Special Report with Brit Hume (1.19 million); and On the Record with Greta Van Susteren (1.16 million).
Here’s the source:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6464842.html
The AVERAGE viewer age of Dildo O’Lielly’s shitty show is SEVENTY ; so is most of FAUX Gnus’ crappy line-up.
Chimpy has a 19% approval rating ; once Obama is certified as the Dem nominee , McStupid is going to be rightfully branded as Chimpy II - The Sequel.
He’s going to be nowhere with-in 1,000 votes of Obama in any state , except maybe denial………
April 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
MCMetal. I concede your point about the bill passing.
Would you concede that McCain’s stance on the particular torture bill, is not necessarily inconsistent with his stance on waterboarding?
And I find it illogical, that if he wanted to be inconsistent - why would he chose a republican primary debate to promote the progressive position?
Seems backward to me and inclines me to believe that there is more to the torture bill, then waterboarding.
Do you realize who you’re talking about ?
McStupid is a PHO(CKING MORON ; when are you going to actually grasp that fact ?
Until then , it is pointless for you to try and enter discussions about McSenile……..
April 9th, 2008 at 3:13 pmDRxJ Says #12:
Seriously, I cannot wait for the Presidential debates between McSame and Obama.
Won’t matter. Kerry bent Bush over the podium and raped him prison-style in the first debate in 2004, and after it was all said and done the media bobble-heads went, “uh… okay, we’ll call it a draw.” By the next day they were actually spinning it as a Bush win. Kerry was just a smarty-pants perfesser, and Bush is a rootin’ tootin’ cowboy. He’s way cooler than Kerry. Don’t you just hate smarty-pants know-it-alls? Yeah, so do we. Bush wins!
April 9th, 2008 at 3:16 pmgummitch. I understand if democrats don’t want to be on Fox. Maybe they’re right for boycotting.
It just doesn’t make sense to me.
I don’t care if anyone here believes it, but some (much) of the progressive message appeals to me.
I read here. I don’t change my mind much, but the information here does influence my thinking.
I feel that if progressives were confident about their message, they would want it on Fox.
Some of the ideas are very strong. Out of a million plus people, you couldn’t influence 10-15%? Could it make the difference?
I think it could.
But, again. I don’t really care. If McCain gets elected I’ll be happy about his support for things on which we agree.
If Obama gets elected, I’ll be happy about his support for areas on which we agree.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I feel that if progressives were confident about their message, they would want it on Fox.
Umm , why doesn’t it ever enter into your stupid head that I simply do not care what the wrong wingnuts think or believe ?
The crappy network that worshipped Ronnie Retard (who sucked total ass , btw) , is insignificant ; if anything , they are a huge detriment only………….
April 9th, 2008 at 3:23 pmMCMetal.
Naval Academy graduate. Senator for 20+ years. Republican nominee that is basically tied with the democrats in current polling.
Apparently, the guy thinks he can just stumble into the White House.
But, that’s impossible. How could someone that progressives consider ignorant, ever do that?
April 9th, 2008 at 3:24 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
What about McStupid is there that’s worth supporting ?
April 9th, 2008 at 3:25 pmtwice.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:26 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
MCMetal.
McStupid is a PHO(CKING MORON ; when are you going to actually grasp that fact ?
Naval Academy graduate. Senator for 20+ years. Republican nominee that is basically tied with the democrats in current polling.
Apparently, the guy thinks he can just stumble into the White House.
But, that’s impossible. How could someone that progressives consider ignorant, ever do that?
5th dumbest individual in his class
How many other useless Senators have also been repeatedly re-elected ?
Do you view the conning of people into voting for you , as some sort of “intelligence” or the actions of an intelligent individual ?
And “polling” is about as useful as used toilet paper ; and a lot less accurate.
As for “stumbling into the White House ; yeah , the drunken moron that’s there now , courtesy of a partisan SCOTUS decision.
BTW
How well has that particular decision turned out , and forever revealed the infinite wisdom of a partisan shithead like Rehnquist …………….
April 9th, 2008 at 3:31 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
twice.
As I stated above :
How well has that decision worked out ?
BTW
Chimpy definitely did not win in 2000 , without a doubt ; and I’m not certain he did in 2004 , either.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:32 pmMCMetal. I’ve got to split.
But, for me, I disagree with most here, and feel that a secure Iraq, run by democratically elected Iraqis, is possible and worth pursuing.
I feel that McCain was right in his opposition to Rumsfeld’s leadership of the war. I also feel that McCain was right in his support of the surge. I think he’s right on his opposition to waterboarding.
I have also supported the Bush tax cuts that McCain has recently supported.
I think McCain is probably right on illegal imigration.
I question McCains commitment to the VA.
I question McCains association with Hagee and his willingness to compromise with the christian right.
As a whole, he is preferrable to me than Clinton.
Although I like Obama, I am not as confident in him as a known quantity.
I could see myself voting for Obama, only if I got a much better look at his voting record and listen to more substantive information about where he wants to take the country. Althought the change message has been effective, I will probably need more to be convinced.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm But, for me, I disagree with most here, and feel that a secure Iraq, run by democratically elected Iraqis, is possible and worth pursuing.
I was going to respond to your entire post , and then realized the futility of that after re-reading this 1st ludicrous statement.
Billions upon billions of taxpayer $’s pissed away.
Millions of lives extinguished or displaced.
An end , nowhere near in sight.
Go ask those who have perished how “worth it” it is………..
McStupid is worthless ; he is simply a continuation of Chimpy’s presidency.
Which is the worst in US history ; end of story………….
April 9th, 2008 at 3:57 pmYou imply that the reason the bill failed in the Senate with nominal Democratic control is because Democrats didn’t think it important enough? WTF are you smoking?
How many bills that Democrats deemed important have failed due to an inability to defeat Republican obstructionist tactics?
And where did you get that straw man about protesting republican leadership?
You’re a flop, Cap’n. No other way to put it.
April 9th, 2008 at 4:39 pmBackup:
‘democratic’ means ‘rule by the people.’
BY DEFINITION, you can’t have a democratic Iraq with a foreign occupying army not under the control of that people.
Are we ready to put the United States Armed Forces in Iraq under the control of the people of Iraq, under Iraqi commanders and the soldiers (and ‘contractors’) subject to Iraqi courts?
Is a country that can’t prosecute a Blackwater ‘contractor’ for murder of its own people democratic?
We could make Iraq secure, and easily.
April 9th, 2008 at 4:43 pmYou want to know how?
Reinstitute the draft and put 2.5 million soldiers in the country. I guarantee it would make Iraq secure.
But the only we can make Iraq democratic is by giving up our power there. By definition.
I’m just stumbling through the thread after being offline for a few hours, and came across this ridiculous statement.
The Cap’n thinks that the reason progressives aren’t interested in promoting their message on Faux is because they’re not “confident” in it.
The proven habit of Faux to distort and ridicule the progressive message is immaterial, I guess.
What a schmuck.
April 9th, 2008 at 4:53 pmI vote gummitch as the MVP of this thread for his surgical precision in dismantling any and all of backup’s weak-ass arguments.
MVP — that’s Most Valuable Poster.
April 9th, 2008 at 4:56 pmralph.
I vote you for captain of the cheerleading squad.
My ideas about the world aren’t fully formed. They adjust when I find out new information. And they are definitely not in lock step with one or the other political parties. Are yours?
I don’t look at debate as a win-lose proposition. It’s more an exchange of ideas. Beneficial to both parties.
I’m not threatened by the possibility that I will be exposed to information that might change my views. I’ve changed my mind here about several issues.
But, if I had to consider those that act as the most ardent supporter for one school of thought (to the exclusion of any other); I would judge you as an exceptional cheerleader.
April 9th, 2008 at 5:44 pmpbg.
I thought the idea was for us to stay long enough for the Iraqis to become strong enough to defend themselves.
I don’t see Americans under the command of Iraqis. I see a strong Iraqi army (controlled by a democratically elected Iraqi government) providing for the security of the Iraqi people.
It’s taking long time. But, it’s possible and worth it.
April 9th, 2008 at 5:57 pmbackup Says
I don’t see Americans under the command of Iraqis. I see a strong Iraqi army (controlled by a democratically elected Iraqi government) providing for the security of the Iraqi people.
It’s taking long time. But, it’s possible and worth it.
And after having served three (3) tours over there I see something totally different and I DONT THINK ITS WORTH IT!!!
Period.
RIP
April 9th, 2008 at 6:11 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
Every loss is painful. But, we lost 19,000 American servicemen in just 5 weeks, during the battle of the bulge.
Was that effort not worth the lives spent?
War is horrible. Sometimes they’re necessary, sometimes they aren’t.
The elected administration decided the war in Iraq was necessary (Clinton and many of the democrats at the time agreed, BTW). Americans will elect a new administration in November.
If the new administration thinks it’s more appropriate to bring the troops home and end the war, they will.
Although every death is lamentable, there is more that goes into the decisions than the loss of soldiers.
If that were the case, war’s wouldn’t be fought at all.
April 9th, 2008 at 6:37 pmbackup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Every loss is painful. But, we lost 19,000 American servicemen in just 5 weeks, during the battle of the bulge.
Was that effort not worth the lives spent?
War is horrible. Sometimes they’re necessary, sometimes they aren’t.
The elected administration decided the war in Iraq was necessary (Clinton and many of the democrats at the time agreed, BTW). Americans will elect a new administration in November.
If the new administration thinks it’s more appropriate to bring the troops home and end the war, they will.
Although every death is lamentable, there is more that goes into the decisions than the loss of soldiers.
If that were the case, war’s wouldn’t be fought at all.
Please list all the similarities between this illegal invasion and occupation (it is not a “war”) , and that of World War II………..
I am so tired of moronic comparisons like this ; you dishonor/disrespect those that perished in actually defending freedom and liberty in a WORLD CONFLICT that was the most destructive conflict this planet has ever witnessed to this illegal invasion and occupation based upon lies and made by choice………
April 9th, 2008 at 7:01 pmI see a strong Iraqi army (controlled by a democratically elected Iraqi government) providing for the security of the Iraqi people.
It’s taking long time. But, it’s possible and worth it.
What more does one need, to assess this poster is totally delusional? I guess the fact that a significant number of Iraqis deserted, rather than fight, shows how effective they are.
Sheesh!
April 9th, 2008 at 8:21 pmMany societies around the world have a military for defense and security that is controlled by a democratically elected government.
I’d be curious what other circumstance would be better.
If a military under civilian control is possible (and worthwhile) for Americans or Europeans, why isn’t it possible and worthwhile for Iraqis? Shouldn’t we help them, just like we would agree to help the people of Darfur?
What makes Iraqis so different? Why don’t they deserve democracy? Why do so many people think they are incapable of it?
April 9th, 2008 at 8:32 pmMany societies around the world have a military for defense and security that is controlled by a democratically elected government.
And how many have three distinct cultural and religious groups, historically at war for centuries?
I’d be curious what other circumstance would be better.
One in which democracy wasn’t installed by an invading force, comes to mind. There are no successful historical precedents that you can point to, that would suggest that this was ever remotely possible.
If a military under civilian control is possible (and worthwhile) for Americans or Europeans, why isn’t it possible and worthwhile for Iraqis? Shouldn’t we help them, just like we would agree to help the people of Darfur?
We never invaded Darfur under false pretenses. And as far as “a military under civilian control,” read some history, specifically about Vichy France.
April 9th, 2008 at 8:51 pmbarfly. I agree with you on the difficulty of having it forcibly implemented.
But, even if we could agree that the invasion was a mistake, we are already there.
Is there any scenerio that it would make more sense for us to stay and help them secure their current circumstance, than it would to leave the situation as it is?
April 9th, 2008 at 9:05 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
__________
backup Says:
April 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I feel that if progressives were confident about their message, they would want it on Fox.
__________
I’m just stumbling through the thread after being offline for a few hours, and came across this ridiculous statement.
The Cap’n thinks that the reason progressives aren’t interested in promoting their message on Faux is because they’re not “confident” in it.
The proven habit of Faux to distort and ridicule the progressive message is immaterial, I guess.
What a schmuck.
___________
As opposed to liberals who never distort or ridicule:
“McCain says 100 more years of war is fine.”
“Bush: Iraq’s resurging violence a very positive moment.”
upright hussein left
April 10th, 2008 at 9:23 am