McCain Adviser Ralph Peters: Military Strain From Stop-Loss Policies Is ‘A Myth Of The Left’
McCain Adviser Ralph Peters: Military Strain From Stop-Loss Policies Is ‘A Myth Of The Left’
On Sept. 14, 2001, President Bush issued Executive Order 13223, allowing the administration to implement a “stop-loss” policy. Under stop-loss, “military personnel can be prevented from leaving the armed forces upon completing their enlistment terms.” Stop-loss policies were created after the Vietnam War. However, the Bush administration has overstretched the military by extensively using these orders to make up for declines in re-enlistment as the Iraq war drags on.
Yesterday on PBS’s Newshour, ret. Lt. Col. Ralph Peters — who now advises Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) presidential campaign on national security affairs — called the dangers of stop-loss policies a “myth of the left.” “Stop-loss is old,” said Peters. “This is not a new thing. In time of crisis, soldiers can be extended. They know it.”
Peters was sharply rebutted by Bobby Muller, president of Veterans for America, who pointed out that many high-ranking military officials have also warned that the Bush administration’s policies are overstretching the armed forces:
BOBBY MULLER: You might think that Bobby Muller is parroting myths created by the left in this country when I talk about stop-loss, but Colin Powell is not parroting any left-wing fantasies. General Casey, General Cody, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mullen, they’re on record. This is not sustainable. There are people being held…
RALPH PETERS: But that’s a different issue.
BOBBY MULLER: I suggest that you may be out of touch with the military today if you think that all of these people that sign up for four years or five years of active military duty really expected — just like the National Guard — that they would wind up being extended for, additionally, a couple of years beyond their contract period?
No, sir, they’re not expecting that.
Watch it:
Yesterday, Bush finally announced that he would be “cutting Army combat tours in Iraq from 15 months to 12 months.” This move came after months of warnings from his top military advisers. “The current demand for our forces exceeds the sustainable supply,” Army Chief of Staff George Casey said back in September. This week, Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen noted he was “very public for many months that we need to get off 15 month deployments as fast as we can.” In July 2007, Gen. Colin Powell also observed, “[T]hey probably can’t keep this up at this level past the middle of next year, I would guess. This is a tremendous burden on our troops.”
If Peters believes that there is nothing wrong with stop-loss, is he advising McCain to sustain this policy…perhaps for 100 years?
BOBBY MULLER: Which means — let me finish — if you were going to — if you serve five years, and you were going to get out in two weeks, and you’re stop-lossed, with a March 27th drop-dead date, that means at a minimum you’ve got three more months before your unit redeploys, you’ve got a 12-month now deployment, you’ve got three months when you come back.
You’re tacking two years on to people who had served five and thought they were getting — they were going to be released from service. It’s a fundamental violation, so don’t talk to me about the damage that’s being done, because it’s severe.
RALPH PETERS: You’ve got to be honest in the math. Now, I just don’t believe that every soldier in 4th Infantry Division is stop-lossed. Prove it, and I’m willing to say it.
BOBBY MULLER: OK…
RALPH PETERS: But wait, wait, now my turn now. But let’s be honest about stop-loss. This is sort of a myth of the left.
Every soldier who signs up, as you know, has an up to eight-year reserve commitment. The recruiter made that plain to me when I signed up as a private. I would serve — I was supposed to serve three years active-duty, but they could call on me for eight years.
As an officer, I could be called back to duty tonight. It’s endless, although I’d be more trouble than I’m worth.
Stop-loss is old. This is not a new thing. In time of crisis, soldiers can be extended. They know it.
And I’m really tired of people telling all the bad stuff about the military when our soldiers really believe what they’re doing.
And I spend time with our soldiers. I was just down at Fort Bragg with the special forces this week. Last month, I was out with the Marines at Miramar and Pendleton. And these people believe in the cause; they believe in what they’re doing. They love the service. Not everybody is bitter. [...]
BOBBY MULLER: You might think that Bobby Muller is parroting myths created by the left in this country when I talk about stop-loss, but Colin Powell is not parroting any left-wing fantasies. General Casey, General Cody, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mullen, they’re on record. This is not sustainable. There are people being held…
RALPH PETERS: But that’s a different issue.
BOBBY MULLER: I suggest that you may be out of touch with the military today if you think that all of these people that sign up for four years or five years of active military duty really expected — just like the National Guard — that they would wind up being extended for, additionally, a couple of years beyond their contract period?
No, sir, they’re not expecting that. They’re not reading the fine print. The recruiters are not saying that. The recruiters, in fact, are telling National Guard, “You serve one year overseas, you’re going to be given five years at home.” They’ve violated that; they’re not doing that.
At least, this seems to be the rosy picture Ralph Peters is trying to paint. Sounds like the 'myth' isn’t coming from the left."
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Actually, stop-loss was implemented DURING the Vietnam war, I had seen it done to some Navy buddies of mine at the time, and they were not happy campers.
April 11th, 2008 at 10:58 am“Stop-loss is old,” said Peters. “This is not a new thing. In time of crisis, soldiers can be extended. They know it.”
Since when is the continuation of an illegal invasion and occupation (to try and save face for the worst administration and decision in US history) considered a "crisis" , sir ?
April 11th, 2008 at 11:01 amYup, reality is indeed a left-wing concept.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:02 ammccains credentials to be president of the US are a myth of the right.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:07 amLemme get this straight -- our soldiers are excited about being stop-lossed, they love their work in Iraq and Afghanistan, they enjoy being exploited for political purposes, they don't mind being away from their families, they're caught up in "the romance and the glory" of the fighting, they think that getting shot at is the ultimate rush of excitement, and they are champing at the bit to get into Iran.
At least, this seems to be the rosy picture Ralph Peters is trying to paint. Sounds like the "myth" isn't coming from the left.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:19 amMcCain Adviser Ralph Peters: Military Strain From Stop-Loss Policies Is ‘A Myth Of The Left’
The idea that the GOP "supports the troops" is indeed a Myth of the Right
April 11th, 2008 at 11:21 amAgreed misshusseinmolly,
Along with the myth of trickle down economics
the myth of compassionate conservatism
the myth of supporting the troops
the myth of fiscal responsibility
the myth of the war on terror
the myth of the war on drugs
the myth of the best health care in the world
the myth of the free market regulating itself
etc.
The GOP is basically a fairy tale. From Grimms
April 11th, 2008 at 11:24 amAnother fine nut job for McWars to have on his side, our soldiers don`t stand a chance in Hell to come home even when their tour is up.This guy could care less about our soldiers and their families who have gone through more than he can imagine.I cannot for the life of me figure out why recruitment is down, can you? Why would anyone in his "right" mind elect another WARMONGER for president,McWars is surrounded by nut jobs for WAR.These morons cannot understand or their just in denial or they don`t care but American have had enough of this GREED,CORRUOPTION AND CRONYISM these guys refuse to take off their rose colored glasses.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:29 amGives a twist to 'what is a political prisoner?'. Here is our Federal guaranteed contract but we don't have to sign...only you sucker.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:30 amThere is one quotation that stands out about how we treat out troops:
Ret. Col. Wilkerson on Keith Olbermann 4/10/08
I felt like I was sucker-punched in the gut when he said this. It is nothing we don't know but to hear a man who had dedicated his adult life to serving our country say this was very powerful. McCain=more of the same.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:33 amYesterday on PBS’s Newshour, ret. Lt. Col. Ralph Peters — who now advises Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) presidential campaign on national security affairs — called the dangers of stop-loss policies a “myth of the left.”
"So the fact that 121 soldiers have committed suicide is a myth also. " The soldiers are stretch so thin they are just about to break. 12 months at home is not long enough, they need 24 months to spend time with their families. Troop morale is so low it can't get any lower. That doesn't even include the ones that have post traumatic stress syndrome.
Wake up and get a reality check for all the men and women fighting your war in Iraq.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:39 amBurning question: Does stop-loss apply to the officer ranks or only to the enlisted?
April 11th, 2008 at 11:46 amLet's see, who should I listen to:
Peters; served in an office for most of his career,wrote a couple of crappy books. He is and has been a cheerleader for the Iraq Fiasco from the beginning. He also discredited the Killian documents because of the Font. Pretty much a big bush-licker.
OR
Bobby Muller; enlisted to serve in Vietnam where he was shot and paralized from the chest down.He has lived the horror of war and knows that it should only be waged when ABSOLUTELY NECCESARY! He is also the founder of the VVAF(Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation).
If I listen to drug limpballs that Muller guy must be one of those "phony soldiers".
April 11th, 2008 at 11:47 amLt. Col. Chicken-hawk Peters, should dust-off His old "M-1", let-out the waist on his old uniform, shine His brown boots, then spend 15 months patrolling the mean-streets in Sader City. until then, shut-the-F**k-up. P.S. Why didn't he make Full-Bird????
April 11th, 2008 at 12:05 pmYesterday, Bush finally announced that he would be “cutting Army combat tours in Iraq from 15 months to 12 months.
The thing about this that the MSM is glossing over is that this policy does not apply to our soldiers currently in Iraq. This policy will not be implemented until August. So it will apply to any soldiers sent to Iraq after August 1. All our soldiers in Iraq right now are still under the old 15 month deployment criteria and will stay there.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pmThe U.S. military
It's not just a job. It's a life sentence.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pmA couple of points. I feel that I have to disagree slightly with Uncle Ho at #1. While stop loss may have been going on during the Vietnam War, there were also, when I was there, what were called early outs, meaning that some in the military were leaving earlier than when they were officially scheduled to be released from military service because, I suspect, of pressure being applied to both politicians and those in the military back then because of the unpopularity of the war and the fact that the war back then was winding down [somewhat] in the late 1960s. Unfortunately, that circumstance is not happening today because the Iraq occupation has drawn a tepid response at best from the American populace. The anti-war movement today is not helped by any of the presidential candidates since not one of them is calling for the immediate and total withdrawal of U.S. forces from that quagmire in Vietnam-sorry, make that Iraq.
What should be required viewing for every American is the powerful 1974 Oscar-winning documentary Hearts and Minds, which should be re-released in theaters across the country today. This film is as relevant today as it was over thirty years ago. It shows the devastation that the Vietnam conflict took upon its victims. What makes the film unique is that it gave voice not only to American soldiers who were traumatized physically and psychologically but also to the Vietnamese, who became the victims of American imperialism. The film also features, among others, Bobby Muller and the toll that the war had upon him. I only wish that Muller were calling for the immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq as those in the VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against the War] and the VFP [Veterans for Peace] are doing.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:26 pmErroll; you are correct in that that were some early outs-provided that you extended your tour in Nam. I had also seen stop-loss too. I've seen both.
btw- I had also seen the film 'Hearts and Minds', but that was a loooonnnng time ago when I was trying to sort out what I had been trough in my 'Vietnam experience'.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pmA way to seriously protest is to see the movie "STOP LOSS", beg your friends and relatives to see it and take others along, to show them that America's yawning indifference is a myth of the corporate media in service to the BUSHCO defense industry.
See the movie, if it isn't too late, make it a blockbuster. Do the same with every Iraq war movie. They've all been brilliant, but complete flops.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pm#19-Carlay Corday
Good suggestion. I have been surprised how the powerful film "In The Valley of Elah", with Tommy Lee Jones, had been ignored by the media and that would also include the liberal blogs. The ending of that film, when the main character raises an upside down American flag [because the death of his son, who had returned from Iraq to the U.S., was both unnecessary and preventable], which is the international distress signal, was simply devastating.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:54 pm"Burning question: Does stop-loss apply to the officer ranks or only to the enlisted?"
Brandon Friedman, in "The War I Always Wanted," was a second lieutenant, and in the book he said "lucky" not to have been stop lossed, escaped by the skin of his teeth.
NCOs are stop lossed, and the lower echelon of officers, but the higher you go up the ladder, the more you're into career military men whose ranks don't show up very often as KIA or wounded anyway. Everything they do is for the career, not time at home with the family (but here, I am guessing).
It seems like I've read of fairly high-rank officers going back to Iraq and getting killed. A few. The ones tasked with dealing directly with the population in the towns in Iraq, in a helpful or "rebuilding" capacity, get killed right along with the Iraqis.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:56 pmPeters is a nut job who served in the military and has never gotten over it. He is one of Murdoch's boys and he writes for his crappy newspaper The New York Post and he appears on Fox.
This guy is so clueless--can you imagine serving under him? He would be awful.
I'm not anti-military, my husband was a USAF Colonel and he never talked about his service the way Peters talks about his. He is an ass.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:10 pmThe only decoration I could find on LTC Peters was a "Defense Meritorious Medal" which ranks beneath the Purple Heart and Bronze Star Medal!
April 11th, 2008 at 1:13 pmHe worked in a heated or air-conditioned office for 22 years!
What a dickhead!
Put flag stamps on envelopes upside down. Waste of effort, I'm sure, and laughable, but the effort isn't much--although everybody's using the Liberty Bell now anyway.
Do anything, wherever you are, to protest legally without getting in trouble or being obnoxious or attracting angry rednecks who'll misconstrue an upside-down flag for a satanic symbol of treason and America-hate. The willingly ignorant keep the monsters safe, they're like an unpaid zombie guard brigade.
Design a STOP THE WAR stamp and use it, instead of a designed stamp with your wedding photo on it.
SEE THE WAR MOVIES.
Discuss them at the blogs.
When you see a leftie calling our troops "Darwin Award nominees" and the like, rant back at them, the same as you would if they'd said anything else nasally sociopathic and hateful. The "right" is comfortable with the idea that at least half of "the left" despises the troops and just wants back into the White House for the power and presitige. Soldier-haters (admittedly a minority group) are rarely confronted at liberal blogs, and should not go unchallenged in a venue where troop familes are reading and posting comments too.
Also, when wavering republicans see that kind of hate at a liberal blog, they run straight back to their fold, figuring the left has no place for them if that's how they feel about our troops. Unchallenged troop haters at our blogs make us look really bad. It gives the Ron Paul vote to McCain when that vote could have gone to Obama.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:13 pmErrol #17
Thanks for that post. I'm getting the movie (if it's on DVD or even videotape).
April 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pmPeters came off like an incredible dolt in that segment. He kept babbling about myths of the left and record reenlistments (ignoring the frightening outflow of captains) then had to admit when called on the effect of extended tours that the army has problems because the troops are tired and the equipment is wearing out. Then he had the nerve to accuse Muller -- a man who has been in a wheelchair the past four decades because of a combat wound -- of being a bully. What a piece of work. No wonder they buried him in intelligence.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:35 pmRalph Peters is all over the place with his various comments about the Iraq war, as documented by Wikipedia. Check out the attached link which outlines his idea for "redrawing the map of the Middle East." Oh...in addition, this guy never was on the field of combat (intelligence), so the stop-loss policy wouldn't have affected him much.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Ralph_Peters_solution_to_Mideast.jpg
April 11th, 2008 at 1:55 pmCarly Corday Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
All excellent suggestions!
April 11th, 2008 at 2:14 pmFunny, I was always told that placing stamps on envelopes upside down was a way of saying "I love you."
April 11th, 2008 at 2:51 pm>Because unless you envision some future where weaker >countries than Iraq are the only threat.
"Occupation" and dealing with threats are two very different things. I dont have the numbers so I can only speculate, but im guessing that costwise, the costs of repelling saddam but not occupying iraq, in gulf war I, were, even adjusted for inflation, massively less than this current fiasco. I'm sure the senior bush and cheney, circa 1994 at least, would agree.
Iraq's military was not strong in conventional terms, but thier history of resisting occupiers isnt insignifigant.
April 11th, 2008 at 4:59 pmBasically, I think that occupation is rarely, if ever, in this modern age, necessary for a country defense, so I think just because a country's military is not prepared for a occupation of a very religious, divided, un-western country doesnt mean the military was broken. As far as countries to occupy, Iraq was one of the stupidest, and most pointless. Its a country that would be much more suited to our national interests being run by a secular strongman, and as we are seeing, will not deal kindly with continued occupiers.
Kilo Says:
April 11th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
On Sept. 14, 2001, President Bush issued Executive Order 13223, allowing the administration to implement a “stop-loss” policy. Under stop-loss, “military personnel can be prevented from leaving the armed forces upon completing their enlistment terms.”
This isn’t actually something you needed to highlight.
You could have just said that Bush did this during his term, which would have said the exact same thing without pointing out that the cut-back military he inherited required this in order to respond to a one-off non-state-based attack on the US.
You can moan about Iraq all you like, but you can’t moan about it breaking the military. Unless you believe that sand is the problem then Iraq isn’t the deciding factor. A deployment of 130-160k troops for 5 years breaks the military, whether they are deployed to Iraq, Sudan or anywhere else.
Now either that is an expected or acceptable return on investment for the country that spends more on defense than pretty much the rest of the planet combined or it isn’t.
Either way, when it comes to actual threats to US interests, Bush didn’t break the military, it was already broken. Because unless you envision some future where weaker countries than Iraq are the only threat then you are left with the same problem.
You couldn't have written more insipid crap than if you asked a headless chicken to run across your keyboard , you Chimpy leg humping tool..............
Chimpy inherited a "cut-back/broken military" ?
The same one that stormed through Iraq , deposed and captured Saddam with-in a couple of weeks and was praised by everyone ?
His re-use of the same soldiers over and over again , in a massive idiotic and illegal invasion and occupation , is the fault of others , and especially of Clinton , right , you leg humpy stooge ?
What a brainless bag of shit you truly are...........
April 11th, 2008 at 6:23 pm“So the fact that 121 soldiers have committed suicide is a myth also. ” The soldiers are stretch so thin they are just about to break. 12 months at home is not long enough, they need 24 months to spend time with their families. Troop morale is so low it can’t get any lower. That doesn’t even asus m6000 silver battery,asus m6 silver battery include the ones that have post traumatic stress syndrome.
Wake up and get a reality check for all the men and women fighting your war in Iraq.
October 15th, 2008 at 8:13 am