Former Rumsfeld/Wolfwowitz Deputy: Iraq War Is A ‘Major Debacle,’ ‘Classic Case Of Failure’
Former Rumsfeld/Wolfwowitz Deputy: Iraq War Is A ‘Major Debacle,’ ‘Classic Case Of Failure’
The National Defense University is an elite military institute funded by the Department of Defense. Both President Dwight Eisenhower and Gen. Colin Powell studied there, and diplomat and historian George Kennan — best known as “the father of containment” — taught at the university.
Given the institution’s ties to the Defense Department, it’s therefore significant that it has chosen to publish a withering critique of the Iraq war written by Joseph J. Collins, a former senior Pentagon official who served under Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz during the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
Collins’s conclusions were based, in part, “on interviews with other former senior defense and intelligence officials who played roles in prewar preparations,” and were completed in fall 2007. From his study:
Measured in blood and treasure, the war in Iraq has achieved the status of a major war and a major debacle. […]
The war’s political impact also has been great. Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has fallen. Our status as a moral leader has been damaged by the war, the subsequent occupation of a Muslim nation, and various issues concerning the treatment of detainees. […]
To date, the war in Iraq is a classic case of failure to adopt and adapt prudent courses of action that balance ends, ways, and means. After the major combat operation, U.S. policy has been insolvent, with inadequate means for pursuing ambitious ends. It is also a case where the perceived illegitimacy of our policy has led the United States to bear a disproportionate share of the war’s burden.
Collins also notes that “senior national security officials exhibited in many instances an imperious attitude, exerting power and pressure where diplomacy and bargaining might have had a better effect.” He insists, however, that he is not trying to lay blame on his former bosses.
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You broke it, you own it. That’s you, GOP.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pmBut, but, but Faux tells its myopic audience on a daily basis they Iraq is a super fun place filled with happy victorious feelings1
April 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pm.
Who does Joseph J. Collins think he’s emboldening…?
.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pmBut, the surge hasn’t worked. There are no political gains, no political stability, the Iraqi haven’t stood up, and America is still paying 12 billion/week in Iraq. The surge failed. Next….
April 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pmJoseph J. Collins’ other publications include studys entitled “Water is Wet” and “The Sky is Up”.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pmLet’s make sure this gets nailed to the front door of the W lieberry.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pmThe surge is outdated. It is obviously just a GOP stall at the expense of our troop.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:48 pmghost of empires past
The war’s political impact also has been great. Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has fallen. Our status as a moral leader has been damaged by the war, the subsequent occupation of a Muslim nation, and various issues concerning the treatment of detainees.
How does this have ANYTHING to do with the surge?
April 18th, 2008 at 12:49 pm“..before the Surge was given an adequate chance to work. This is outdated.”
Of course, things have just been SPECTACULAR in Iraq since fall, 2007.
Bet you and Grampa Munster McCain’s great-great-great grandchildren can’t wait for the “Fall, 2107″ report to see how great things have improved!
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/ 20080501faessay87305/ steven-simon/ the-price-of-the-surge.html
April 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pmHe insists, however, that he is not trying to lay blame on his former bosses.
How does Collins suppose this happened? Is the Iraq War just an inevitable result of natural forces, like Spring, or an earthquake? Or perhaps he thinks 150,000 US troops just accidently blundered into Iraq on their way to somewhere else, and decided to take over the country since they were already there.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:53 pmThe surge was based upon politics here in the USA. GOP needs to stall the inevitable failure of our Iraq occupation until the new Dem. POTUS takes office. How many of our troops have to die for a GOP excuse? The surge is a sickening lie.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:57 pmRe #6 ~ make sure it gets nailed to a glass door.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pmI hope to heck this gets some serious MSM attention and broadcast time spent on it.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pmA couple things need to be made clear, lest Think Progress be hoist by its own petard.
First, this is neither a “Pentagon study” nor a “National Defense University study.” This is an Institute for National Security Studies occasional paper. INSS no more represents any official organization than NDU itself does. INSS affiliates are free to write anything they want, so long as they don’t compromise classified information, and every INSS document contains the disclaimer that the paper is not an official statement of anything by anybody.
While I don’t disagree with the term “major debacle,” I want to warn fellow progressives against taking this paper as a kind of totem. Joe Collins has been working on this paper for some time — I’ve seen drafts — and there’s not much in it that’s new or interesting: “Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has fallen.” It doesn’t take a paper to tell us that.
So please continue to beat up on the Administration and its boneheads with gleeful, but don’t fetishize this paper as a smoking gun — something I see happening already in the progressive blogosphere.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pmThat was supposed to be “gleeful abandon.”
April 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pmIraq is a catastrophic failure.
(pause).
That is why it makes perfect sense to withdraw the troops and concentrate on attacking Iran, which wants to “wipe out from the map” Israel, America’s greatest friend.
After we successfully attack Iran, and are greeted by grateful Iranians who will welcome us with flowers and parades, we need to regroup.
And then attack Syria, which also threatens our greatest friend and ally, Israel.
Signed,
April 18th, 2008 at 1:13 pmthe PNAC group http://www.newamericancentury.org/
and
the Clean Break study group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm
http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm
chomot Says:
I hope to heck this gets some serious MSM attention and broadcast time spent on it.
Is Barak Obama wearing a flag pin yet?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pmFirst, let’s clarify a little.
It’s not a WAR . . it’s an INVASION.
Now let’s look at the statement: ‘Classic case of failure’
That couldn’t be more untrue.
This invasion has been a total success as far as Dick and the rest of this administration is concerned. They’ve used it as a tool from the start and they continue to do so.
So then, take a look at how they’ve used this invasion, then consider what gave them the ability to start in with the endless lies that gave them the invasion they wanted. Now have a look at how they’ve used what gave them the ability to start in with the lies. You get the idea. They were in on it.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pmWhoever dreamed up this invasion and occupation is at fault for every death, injury and dollar wasted on this imperial nightmare.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pmBy the way, who was responsible for not securing the munitions depots, which were subsequently looted…These munitions have probably killed hundreds of US troops and Iraqis.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:15 pm15Hemlock for Gadflies Says:
This just helps drive home what most of us with a brain in our head already know,and have known since the beginning of bush/co.’s folly.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:17 pmMunitions don’t kill people. People kill people.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:17 pmThe Institute is funded by DOD…so if that isn’t a tie what is? Usually when you pay for something you are connected. However, strange what many of us said from day 1, it has taken intellectuals to realize and admit. Those of us not even “funded” by DOD.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:18 pmHemlock for Gadflies Says:
——————————————————————————–
A couple things need to be made clear, lest Think Progress be hoist by its own petard.
First, this is neither a “Pentagon study” nor a “National Defense University study.” This is an Institute for National Security Studies occasional paper. INSS no more represents any official organization than NDU itself does. INSS affiliates are free to write anything they want, so long as they don’t compromise classified information, and every INSS document contains the disclaimer that the paper is not an official statement of anything by anybody.
While I don’t disagree with the term “major debacle,” I want to warn fellow progressives against taking this paper as a kind of totem. Joe Collins has been working on this paper for some time — I’ve seen drafts — and there’s not much in it that’s new or interesting: “Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has fallen.” It doesn’t take a paper to tell us that.
So please continue to beat up on the Administration and its boneheads with gleeful, but don’t fetishize this paper as a smoking gun — something I see happening already in the progressive blogosphere.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Since when have most individual progressives , let alone sites like here at TP , needed even an “occassional paper” to cement what most everyone knows is going on in Iraq ?
The INSS paper is simply another tidbit of overwhelming evidence of the reality of Iraq ; which is that it’s FUBAR , regardless of the rhetorical bullshit that is released by the the Chimpy administration that attempts to cotradict that……….
April 18th, 2008 at 1:18 pmshoeless, how about ~ people with unfettered access to munitions that should and could have been secured if the planners had their shit together kill people?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pm“contradict”
April 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pmshoeless Says:
——————————————————————————–
Munitions don’t kill people. People kill people.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
RUCerious Says:
——————————————————————————–
shoeless, how about ~ people with unfettered access to munitions that should and could have been secured if the planners had their shit together kill people?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
How about the Chimpy administration’s selfish , greedy , deceitful behavior is responsible for killing people in Iraq ?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pmIn Bob Woodward’s STATE OF DENIAL prior to the second fraudulent election of bush, bush’s own people kept telling him, IT IS NOT WORKING IN IRAQ ! bush chose to ignore them and continue on his ego path, because to admit changes were needed is a sign of weakness to him. Tell that to all our wounded men and women, see if their lost limbs and lives were worth bush’s ego driven desire to be right.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pmRUCerious Says:
shoeless, how about ~ people with unfettered access to munitions that should and could have been secured if the planners had their shit together kill people?
Don’t you think that’s kinda long for a bumper sticker?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:25 pmFormer Rumsfeld/Wolfwowitz Deputy: Iraq War Is A ‘Major Debacle,’ ‘Classic Case Of Failure’
But but but “Stay the Course” is such a terrific slogan ; how could there be “failure” …….?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pmMCMetal Says:
How about the Chimpy administration’s selfish , greedy , deceitful behavior is responsible for killing people in Iraq ?
Or, Neocons don’t kill people, they make other people do it for them.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pmAnd where should the blame fall on ? American people were lied into believing imminent destruction was coming from Iraq. Lied to by ThIS ADMINISTRATION. So, it is very clear where the blame should be. I hope they all live long lives, condi, bush, cheney, rumsfeldt so they can see what their decisions cost America.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pmtexaslady Says:
——————————————————————————–
And where should the blame fall on ? American people were lied into believing imminent destruction was coming from Iraq. Lied to by ThIS ADMINISTRATION. So, it is very clear where the blame should be. I hope they all live long lives, condi, bush, cheney, rumsfeldt so they can see what their decisions cost America.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Yeah
I hope they find a suitable view from inside their jail cell(s)……..
April 18th, 2008 at 1:32 pmInteresting that someone goes to jail for possession of marijuana but not for wrecking 3 countries, USA, Afganistan, Iraq and maiming and killing thousands.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:39 pmtexaslady Says:
that someone goes to jail for possession of marijuana but not for wrecking 3 countries, USA, Afganistan, Iraq and maiming and killing thousands.
If you are going to commit crimes, make sure they are BIG ONES.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:42 pmShoeless…good point !
April 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pmOh my! These military studies… “To date, the war in Iraq is a classic case of failure”
April 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pmTo date, the War in Iraq is a classic INTERNATIONAL CRIME! A WAR OF AGRESSION!
The worst part is that people don’t pay attention until it’s folks like the military that point this out.
Us “DFH”s have no credibility to call it a disaster … because we did so in advance!?!?!
Cheers,
April 18th, 2008 at 1:51 pmMCMetal Says:
But but but “Stay the Course” is such a terrific slogan ; how could there be “failure” …….?
It took me a while to realize that our Dunce in Chief has not been promoting “stay the course”. He’s been saying “stay, of course”.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pmTexaslady, I hope they live to face trial for War Crimes.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pmOkay, then I will.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:54 pmidiot steals ‘00 election
April 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pmidiot rises to power (illegitimate ruler)
idiot is so unpopular and what America needs is “another Pearl Harbor”
what a coincidence! shortly after that 9/11! Marvin Bush at WTC7 and Larry Silverstein says “pull it” collect insurance on WTC7
idiot uses 9/11 to invade Iraq 2004 idiot steals elections again uses Criminal War and manipulates patriotism to ensure his re-election (re-stolen election)
$35 barrel of oil in 2000 $114 barrel of oil in 2008
not to mention the plummeting value of the dollar
what has this idiot done right? I keep looking but I can’t find anything right
Uh? The war is a major debacle?
Wow, where have I been these 5 LONG YEARS?
Thanks for informing us, I feel so much better now.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:58 pmMcCain 08′ , idiot.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:59 pmsacopenapa Says:
Oh my! These military studies… “To date, the war in Iraq is a classic case of failure”
To date, the War in Iraq is a classic INTERNATIONAL CRIME! A WAR OF AGRESSION!
Are you suggesting someone might be to blame?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:01 pmPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
——————————————————————————–
MCMetal Says:
But but but “Stay the Course” is such a terrific slogan ; how could there be “failure” …….?
It took me a while to realize that our Dunce in Chief has not been promoting “stay the course”. He’s been saying “stay, of course”.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I believe that slogan is more appropo for John “100 years in Iraq” McStupid………..
April 18th, 2008 at 2:01 pmThe truth will set you free http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
Look at the direction this country is going then decide what to do?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:01 pmAmerican and Isreali officials should refrain from condemnation of Jimmy Carter as well, because as “senior national security officials exhibited in many instances an imperious attitude, exerting power and pressure where diplomacy and bargaining might have had a better effect.”
It time to talk with others.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:03 pmShoeless @#29
How about a wrap around bumper sticker, or one that takes up the entire rear windshield. Cops’d love that, eh?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pmThis paper probably gives us the truth, teasing us… then says we need to wait six months to evaluate further.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:05 pmNOLIESPLEASE Says:
——————————————————————————–
McCain 08? , idiot.
Would that perhaps be 1908?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:05 pmDaTruth - wasn’t it said, “there are no coincidences?” However, help from big time bad guys, funded by big money with lots of gain, you bet. Difficult to believe this keystone bunch could pull it off, but they have plenty of backers that don’t mind getting dirty.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pmDaTruth - think about how much money it took to buy the 2004 election, and it happened didn’t it. The money is always there when there is a payoff at the end.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:11 pmSeeing that the world is soon to be flooded with former Bush Administration idiots claiming “It wasn’t my fault,” Collins is wise to take this opportunity to try to launch a preemptive strike. It’ll be easier to reclaim part of his tattered reputation now rather than later.
What do you wanna bet he’s using this in part to lure editors for a potential book deal?
-AF
April 18th, 2008 at 2:15 pmAndrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
Like it too ‘rocket science’ to figure this out.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:24 pmHell, shrubie did not go to war so what made him think he got play ‘god’ and start one just to see how is it done.
SOB needs to be IMPEACHED.
Impeachment, shamed out of office, would be a healing for this country, but are there any backbones in Washington to do this ? Doubt it.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pmStating the bleeding obvious should not be cause for admiration.
But here’s the most revealing statment Collins makes:
It is also a case where the perceived illegitimacy of our policy has led the United States to bear a disproportionate share of the war’s burden”.
A) Invasion and occupation was and is IN FACT illegal ( despote the post facto “invitation” of a puppet government for the US to remain and the UN’s acceptance of the fait accompli).
B) Though the US has sepnt 600 Billion, has over 4000 dead and 40,000 wounded, the Iraqi’s have last 500,000 to 1 million, have over 2 million refugeess and their country has been destroyed. The disproportiante burden lies with the Iraqis, NOT the US.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:33 pmA war was started illegally and laws were changed to legalize and protect the war criminals, not perception, reality.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:48 pmAnd Collins is not trying to blame anyone?
WHY NOT?
Because it’s no-one’s fault?!
Once again, those who got it wrong and abetted getting it wrong get the attention when they note the bleeding obvious, whilst all those who got it right, from the very start, are ingored.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:48 pmHave you noticed the rats are leaving the ship as fast as they can. Cheney didn’t want Rummy to leave because “they” would come after him and bush. Well, cheney, look around getting pretty lonesome up there. Good reason to get McCain elected he can pardon everybody.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:53 pmJust another failed war by the immoral pro-death Republicans. It makes me chuckle when the conservatives talk about “pro-life” after all of the blood they have on their hands in Iraq.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:30 pm“The National Defense University is an elite military institute funded by the Department of Defense.”
Uh-oh, now the reichwingers will have something else to hate the “elite” for!
April 19th, 2008 at 12:06 am> I want to warn fellow progressives
> against taking this paper as a kind of totem.
Dunno I dont know how often you post here, so I cant say for sure, but I sense a concern troll.
> there’s not much in it that’s new
>or interesting:
the truth may be neither new or interesting, but it is a rare commodity these days. and frankly, its refreshing to see someone who isnt a dope smoking hippie acknowledge it.
> “Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has >fallen.” It doesn’t take a paper to tell us that.”
tell that to the people who told us there knew where saddams WMD were and that we would be greeted by flowers and only have to fight for 6 months at most..
once again, I would assert that reality is a new concept to the people running the country these days. they think they create thier own reality by sheer will alone. im not completely, 100 percent sure thier wrong about that, but when you try and apply that decididely metaphysical theory to world politics, you have a recipe for disaster that only common sense can rescue us from.. if only enough of us had any..
April 19th, 2008 at 1:31 amhttp://www.sourcewatch.org/ index.php?title=Institute_for_National_Strategic_Studies
The Institute for National Strategic Studies was established in 1984 by the Secretary of Defense within the National Defense University (NDU). The INSS “operates under a charter from the Secretary of Defense and a Memorandum of Understanding with the Director of the Joint Staff.”[
April 19th, 2008 at 2:21 amChocolate Jesus Says:
“…the truth may be neither new or interesting, but it is a rare commodity these days. and frankly, its refreshing to see someone who isnt a dope smoking hippie acknowledge it.”
April 19th, 2008 at 1:31 am
I keep thinking that, as more of the truth comes out bit by bit from diverse sources, it’s got to eventually have an effect on the general public (like water dripping on a stone). Of course, that’s if the general public ever hears about it. (sigh)
BTW, I can’t quite tell if you’re insulting “dope smoking hippie[s]” or honoring them. :)
April 19th, 2008 at 3:07 am> I can’t quite tell if you’re insulting
> “dope smoking hippie[s]” or
> honoring them. :)
I’m going to plead the 5th on that one.
I was more, in actuality, taking a subtle jab at the way anyones whose left wing has to battle the assumption that they can’t undestand or accurately deal with military matters (i.e their just dope smoking hippies), but yet theres some bizarre notion that any politicians or government officials who are pro-war and pro-enormous defense budgets are automatically competent military strategists…
April 19th, 2008 at 4:30 amThe study’s author Joseph Collins responds to the Miami Herald’s (and by extension, ThinkProgress’) distorted and inaccurate reporting of his study (Nice try, Amanda trying to bury the fact that the study’s author utterly disputes your mischaracterization of the report):
‘The Miami Herald story (”Pentagon Study: War is a ‘Debacle’ “) distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research project. It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study. Indeed, the implication of the Herald story was that this study was mostly about current events. Such is not the case. It was mainly about the period 2002-04. The story also hypes a number of paragraphs, many of which are quoted out of context. The study does not “lay much of the blame” on Secretary Rumsfeld for problems in the conduct of the war, nor does it say that he “bypassed the Joint Chiefs of Staff.” It does not single out “Condoleeza Rice and Stephen Hadley” for criticism.’
Other than that, I guess, Amdanda and the Herald got some of it right. Heh.
April 19th, 2008 at 12:55 pm>distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research >project.
>It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ index.php?title=Institute_for_National_Strategic_Studies
The Institute for National Strategic Studies was established in 1984 by the Secretary of Defense within the National Defense University (NDU). The INSS “operates under a charter from the Secretary of Defense and a Memorandum of Understanding with the Director of the Joint Staff.
nice try exlexlia, but no dice trying to disown this…
April 19th, 2008 at 6:22 pm>It was mainly about the period 2002-04
why dont you have something to tell us about how well things are going now?
troll..
April 19th, 2008 at 6:23 pmoh wait, i found something..
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20080419/ ap_on_re_mi_ea/ iraq
If I were a betting man, I’m betting we’re soon going to so how illusory any “progress” made by “the surge(tm)” really is..
April 19th, 2008 at 6:26 pmBy all counts, Iraq war is a great, resounding, exquisite success. With no more loss of American Lives than 4,000 in over five years (a G.I. is safer in Iraq or Afghanistan than on the streets of Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore and even on the stateside military bases, honest, ask any expert, and besides he gets to enjoy delectable feast of 14 year old Iraqi girls, bayonet the Haji boys and gets experience in the use of extreme interrogation techniques against the ‘detainees’ without fear of reprisal), is that a big cost in blood? We lost more of our men in every previous war except the conquest of Hawaii. And the cost? May be a trillion buckaroos, give or take one. But we ‘borrowed’ from them Arabs. Let them demand repayment and we will show them who the boss is. Like Lynn Cheney told that Prince Talal bin Walid – or was it Walid bin Talal? - a while back: “ don’t even think about slowing down your purchase of our treasuries, otherwise our courts are ready to award all your holdings in Good Old USA to the families of the victims of September 11.
April 20th, 2008 at 11:34 pmAnd for every American life lost in the GW on T, we have wasted 500 of them ‘terrorists’, got them killing each other on an unprecedented scale, caused the destruction of their property to the tune of a trillion dollars (and we are going to get them to pay our contractors for reconstructing our carnage caused by our bombs, with a 1000% premium). And we have made one Iraqi out of every five homeless. That should teach them terrorists a lesson! And wait till their ‘parliament’ passes the Hydrocarbon Law crafted by our oil companies. We will have a guaranteed, unlimited supply of their crude for $10 a barrel for a millennium, or until the sands of Arabia are cleaned out of that yucky stuff.
And now we have an ‘enduring’ base that doubles as our embassy from which to project our imperial power over the entire ‘Muhammedan’ world which will last a hundred, maybe two hundred, maybe a thousand years. We will have ample opportunity to disabuse them of their misguided, so-called religion in one or two generations. We will also have a guaranteed supply of ‘comfort girls’ for our boys abroad on their civilizing missions.
You call that a ‘failure’? An expensive failure? Look up the dictionary, man!