Comments on: Former Rumsfeld/Wolfwowitz Deputy: Iraq War Is A ‘Major Debacle,’ ‘Classic Case Of Failure’ http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:14:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: batteries http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-5284722 batteries Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:53:22 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-5284722 Now let’s look at the statement: ‘Classic case of failure’ That couldn’t be more untrue. This invasion has been a total success as far as Dick and the rest of this administration is concerned. They’ve used it as a tool from the start and they continue to do so. So then, take a look at how they’ve used this invasion, then consider what gave them the ability to start in with the endless lies that gave them the invasion <a href="http://www.batteryfast.com/sony/pcg-r505.htm" rel="nofollow">sony pcg-r505 battery</a>,<a href="http://www.batteryfast.com/sony/pcg-z505.htm" rel="nofollow">sony pcg-z505 battery</a> they wanted. Now have a look at how they’ve used what gave them the ability to start in with the lies. You get the idea. They were in on it. Now let’s look at the statement: ‘Classic case of failure’
That couldn’t be more untrue.
This invasion has been a total success as far as Dick and the rest of this administration is concerned. They’ve used it as a tool from the start and they continue to do so.

So then, take a look at how they’ve used this invasion, then consider what gave them the ability to start in with the endless lies that gave them the invasion sony pcg-r505 battery,sony pcg-z505 battery they wanted. Now have a look at how they’ve used what gave them the ability to start in with the lies. You get the idea. They were in on it.

]]> By: assadiq http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4921694 assadiq Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:34:27 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4921694 By all counts, Iraq war is a great, resounding, exquisite success. With no more loss of American Lives than 4,000 in over five years (a G.I. is safer in Iraq or Afghanistan than on the streets of Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore and even on the stateside military bases, honest, ask any expert, and besides he gets to enjoy delectable feast of 14 year old Iraqi girls, bayonet the Haji boys and gets experience in the use of extreme interrogation techniques against the ‘detainees’ without fear of reprisal), is that a big cost in blood? We lost more of our men in every previous war except the conquest of Hawaii. And the cost? May be a trillion buckaroos, give or take one. But we 'borrowed' from them Arabs. Let them demand repayment and we will show them who the boss is. Like Lynn Cheney told that Prince Talal bin Walid – or was it Walid bin Talal? - a while back: “ don’t even think about slowing down your purchase of our treasuries, otherwise our courts are ready to award all your holdings in Good Old USA to the families of the victims of September 11. And for every American life lost in the GW on T, we have wasted 500 of them ‘terrorists’, got them killing each other on an unprecedented scale, caused the destruction of their property to the tune of a trillion dollars (and we are going to get them to pay our contractors for reconstructing our carnage caused by our bombs, with a 1000% premium). And we have made one Iraqi out of every five homeless. That should teach them terrorists a lesson! And wait till their ‘parliament’ passes the Hydrocarbon Law crafted by our oil companies. We will have a guaranteed, unlimited supply of their crude for $10 a barrel for a millennium, or until the sands of Arabia are cleaned out of that yucky stuff. And now we have an ‘enduring’ base that doubles as our embassy from which to project our imperial power over the entire ‘Muhammedan’ world which will last a hundred, maybe two hundred, maybe a thousand years. We will have ample opportunity to disabuse them of their misguided, so-called religion in one or two generations. We will also have a guaranteed supply of ‘comfort girls’ for our boys abroad on their civilizing missions. You call that a ‘failure’? An expensive failure? Look up the dictionary, man! By all counts, Iraq war is a great, resounding, exquisite success. With no more loss of American Lives than 4,000 in over five years (a G.I. is safer in Iraq or Afghanistan than on the streets of Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore and even on the stateside military bases, honest, ask any expert, and besides he gets to enjoy delectable feast of 14 year old Iraqi girls, bayonet the Haji boys and gets experience in the use of extreme interrogation techniques against the ‘detainees’ without fear of reprisal), is that a big cost in blood? We lost more of our men in every previous war except the conquest of Hawaii. And the cost? May be a trillion buckaroos, give or take one. But we ‘borrowed’ from them Arabs. Let them demand repayment and we will show them who the boss is. Like Lynn Cheney told that Prince Talal bin Walid – or was it Walid bin Talal? – a while back: “ don’t even think about slowing down your purchase of our treasuries, otherwise our courts are ready to award all your holdings in Good Old USA to the families of the victims of September 11.
And for every American life lost in the GW on T, we have wasted 500 of them ‘terrorists’, got them killing each other on an unprecedented scale, caused the destruction of their property to the tune of a trillion dollars (and we are going to get them to pay our contractors for reconstructing our carnage caused by our bombs, with a 1000% premium). And we have made one Iraqi out of every five homeless. That should teach them terrorists a lesson! And wait till their ‘parliament’ passes the Hydrocarbon Law crafted by our oil companies. We will have a guaranteed, unlimited supply of their crude for $10 a barrel for a millennium, or until the sands of Arabia are cleaned out of that yucky stuff.
And now we have an ‘enduring’ base that doubles as our embassy from which to project our imperial power over the entire ‘Muhammedan’ world which will last a hundred, maybe two hundred, maybe a thousand years. We will have ample opportunity to disabuse them of their misguided, so-called religion in one or two generations. We will also have a guaranteed supply of ‘comfort girls’ for our boys abroad on their civilizing missions.
You call that a ‘failure’? An expensive failure? Look up the dictionary, man!

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4920448 Chocolate Jesus Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:26:06 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4920448 oh wait, i found something.. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq If I were a betting man, I'm betting we're soon going to so how illusory any "progress" made by "the surge(tm)" really is.. oh wait, i found something..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

If I were a betting man, I’m betting we’re soon going to so how illusory any “progress” made by “the surge(tm)” really is..

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4920446 Chocolate Jesus Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:23:25 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4920446 >It was mainly about the period 2002-04 why dont you have something to tell us about how well things are going now? troll.. >It was mainly about the period 2002-04

why dont you have something to tell us about how well things are going now?

troll..

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4920442 Chocolate Jesus Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:22:34 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4920442 >distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research >project. >It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study. http://www.sourcewatch.org/ index.php?title=Institute_for_National_Strategic_Studies The Institute for National Strategic Studies was established in 1984 by the Secretary of Defense within the National Defense University (NDU). The INSS “operates under a charter from the Secretary of Defense and a Memorandum of Understanding with the Director of the Joint Staff. nice try exlexlia, but no dice trying to disown this... >distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research >project.
>It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ index.php?title=Institute_for_National_Strategic_Studies

The Institute for National Strategic Studies was established in 1984 by the Secretary of Defense within the National Defense University (NDU). The INSS “operates under a charter from the Secretary of Defense and a Memorandum of Understanding with the Director of the Joint Staff.

nice try exlexlia, but no dice trying to disown this…

]]> By: Exley http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4920180 Exley Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:55:31 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4920180 The study's author Joseph Collins responds to the Miami Herald's (and by extension, ThinkProgress') distorted and inaccurate reporting of his study (Nice try, Amanda trying to bury the fact that the study's author utterly disputes your mischaracterization of the report): 'The Miami Herald story ("Pentagon Study: War is a 'Debacle' ") distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research project. It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study. Indeed, the implication of the Herald story was that this study was mostly about current events. Such is not the case. It was mainly about the period 2002-04. The story also hypes a number of paragraphs, many of which are quoted out of context. The study does not "lay much of the blame" on Secretary Rumsfeld for problems in the conduct of the war, nor does it say that he "bypassed the Joint Chiefs of Staff." It does not single out "Condoleeza Rice and Stephen Hadley" for criticism.' Other than that, I guess, Amdanda and the Herald got some of it right. Heh. The study’s author Joseph Collins responds to the Miami Herald’s (and by extension, ThinkProgress’) distorted and inaccurate reporting of his study (Nice try, Amanda trying to bury the fact that the study’s author utterly disputes your mischaracterization of the report):

‘The Miami Herald story (”Pentagon Study: War is a ‘Debacle’ “) distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research project. It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study. Indeed, the implication of the Herald story was that this study was mostly about current events. Such is not the case. It was mainly about the period 2002-04. The story also hypes a number of paragraphs, many of which are quoted out of context. The study does not “lay much of the blame” on Secretary Rumsfeld for problems in the conduct of the war, nor does it say that he “bypassed the Joint Chiefs of Staff.” It does not single out “Condoleeza Rice and Stephen Hadley” for criticism.’

Other than that, I guess, Amdanda and the Herald got some of it right. Heh.

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919950 Chocolate Jesus Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:30:19 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919950 > I can’t quite tell if you’re insulting > “dope smoking hippie[s]” or > honoring them. :) I'm going to plead the 5th on that one. I was more, in actuality, taking a subtle jab at the way anyones whose left wing has to battle the assumption that they can't undestand or accurately deal with military matters (i.e their just dope smoking hippies), but yet theres some bizarre notion that any politicians or government officials who are pro-war and pro-enormous defense budgets are automatically competent military strategists... > I can’t quite tell if you’re insulting
> “dope smoking hippie[s]” or
> honoring them. :)

I’m going to plead the 5th on that one.

I was more, in actuality, taking a subtle jab at the way anyones whose left wing has to battle the assumption that they can’t undestand or accurately deal with military matters (i.e their just dope smoking hippies), but yet theres some bizarre notion that any politicians or government officials who are pro-war and pro-enormous defense budgets are automatically competent military strategists…

]]> By: Jane E. Schneider http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919936 Jane E. Schneider Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:07:38 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919936 <em>Chocolate Jesus Says: "...the truth may be neither new or interesting, but it is a rare commodity these days. and frankly, its refreshing to see someone who isnt a dope smoking hippie acknowledge it." April 19th, 2008 at 1:31 am</em> I keep thinking that, as more of the truth comes out bit by bit from diverse sources, it's got to eventually have an effect on the general public (like water dripping on a stone). Of course, that's if the general public ever hears about it. (sigh) BTW, I can't quite tell if you're insulting "dope smoking hippie[s]" or honoring them. :) Chocolate Jesus Says:

“…the truth may be neither new or interesting, but it is a rare commodity these days. and frankly, its refreshing to see someone who isnt a dope smoking hippie acknowledge it.”

April 19th, 2008 at 1:31 am

I keep thinking that, as more of the truth comes out bit by bit from diverse sources, it’s got to eventually have an effect on the general public (like water dripping on a stone). Of course, that’s if the general public ever hears about it. (sigh)

BTW, I can’t quite tell if you’re insulting “dope smoking hippie[s]” or honoring them. :)

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919926 Chocolate Jesus Sat, 19 Apr 2008 06:21:41 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919926 http://www.sourcewatch.org/ index.php?title=Institute_for_National_Strategic_Studies The Institute for National Strategic Studies was established in 1984 by the Secretary of Defense within the National Defense University (NDU). The INSS “operates under a charter from the Secretary of Defense and a Memorandum of Understanding with the Director of the Joint Staff.”[ http://www.sourcewatch.org/ index.php?title=Institute_for_National_Strategic_Studies

The Institute for National Strategic Studies was established in 1984 by the Secretary of Defense within the National Defense University (NDU). The INSS “operates under a charter from the Secretary of Defense and a Memorandum of Understanding with the Director of the Joint Staff.”[

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919906 Chocolate Jesus Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:31:03 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919906 > I want to warn fellow progressives > against taking this paper as a kind of totem. Dunno I dont know how often you post here, so I cant say for sure, but I sense a concern troll. > there’s not much in it that’s new >or interesting: the truth may be neither new or interesting, but it is a rare commodity these days. and frankly, its refreshing to see someone who isnt a dope smoking hippie acknowledge it. > “Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has >fallen.” It doesn’t take a paper to tell us that." tell that to the people who told us there knew where saddams WMD were and that we would be greeted by flowers and only have to fight for 6 months at most.. once again, I would assert that reality is a new concept to the people running the country these days. they think they create thier own reality by sheer will alone. im not completely, 100 percent sure thier wrong about that, but when you try and apply that decididely metaphysical theory to world politics, you have a recipe for disaster that only common sense can rescue us from.. if only enough of us had any.. > I want to warn fellow progressives
> against taking this paper as a kind of totem.

Dunno I dont know how often you post here, so I cant say for sure, but I sense a concern troll.

> there’s not much in it that’s new
>or interesting:

the truth may be neither new or interesting, but it is a rare commodity these days. and frankly, its refreshing to see someone who isnt a dope smoking hippie acknowledge it.

> “Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has >fallen.” It doesn’t take a paper to tell us that.”

tell that to the people who told us there knew where saddams WMD were and that we would be greeted by flowers and only have to fight for 6 months at most..

once again, I would assert that reality is a new concept to the people running the country these days. they think they create thier own reality by sheer will alone. im not completely, 100 percent sure thier wrong about that, but when you try and apply that decididely metaphysical theory to world politics, you have a recipe for disaster that only common sense can rescue us from.. if only enough of us had any..

]]> By: Jane E. Schneider http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919886 Jane E. Schneider Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:06:08 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919886 "<em>The National Defense University is an elite military institute funded by the Department of Defense."</em> Uh-oh, now the reichwingers will have something else to hate the "elite" for! “The National Defense University is an elite military institute funded by the Department of Defense.”

Uh-oh, now the reichwingers will have something else to hate the “elite” for!

]]> By: Willy http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919386 Willy Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:30:05 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919386 Just another failed war by the immoral pro-death Republicans. It makes me chuckle when the conservatives talk about "pro-life" after all of the blood they have on their hands in Iraq. Just another failed war by the immoral pro-death Republicans. It makes me chuckle when the conservatives talk about “pro-life” after all of the blood they have on their hands in Iraq.

]]> By: texaslady http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919170 texaslady Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:53:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919170 Have you noticed the rats are leaving the ship as fast as they can. Cheney didn't want Rummy to leave because "they" would come after him and bush. Well, cheney, look around getting pretty lonesome up there. Good reason to get McCain elected he can pardon everybody. Have you noticed the rats are leaving the ship as fast as they can. Cheney didn’t want Rummy to leave because “they” would come after him and bush. Well, cheney, look around getting pretty lonesome up there. Good reason to get McCain elected he can pardon everybody.

]]> By: 5th Estate http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919154 5th Estate Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:48:33 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919154 And Collins is not trying to blame anyone? WHY NOT? Because it's no-one's fault?! Once again, those who got it wrong and abetted getting it wrong get the attention when they note the bleeding obvious, whilst all those who got it right, from the very start, are ingored. And Collins is not trying to blame anyone?
WHY NOT?
Because it’s no-one’s fault?!

Once again, those who got it wrong and abetted getting it wrong get the attention when they note the bleeding obvious, whilst all those who got it right, from the very start, are ingored.

]]> By: texaslady http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919152 texaslady Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:48:21 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919152 A war was started illegally and laws were changed to legalize and protect the war criminals, not perception, reality. A war was started illegally and laws were changed to legalize and protect the war criminals, not perception, reality.

]]> By: 5th Estate http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919124 5th Estate Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:33:03 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919124 <strong>Stating the bleeding obvious should not be cause for admiration. </strong> But here's the most revealing statment Collins makes: It is also a case where the <strong>perceived illegitimacy </strong>of our policy <strong>has led the United States to bear a disproportionate share of the war’s burden". </strong> A) Invasion and occupation was and is IN FACT illegal ( despote the post facto "invitation" of a puppet government for the US to remain and the UN's acceptance of the fait accompli). B) Though the US has sepnt 600 Billion, has over 4000 dead and 40,000 wounded, the Iraqi's have last 500,000 to 1 million, have over 2 million refugeess and their country has been destroyed. The <strong>disproportiante burden </strong>lies with the Iraqis, NOT the US. Stating the bleeding obvious should not be cause for admiration.

But here’s the most revealing statment Collins makes:

It is also a case where the perceived illegitimacy of our policy has led the United States to bear a disproportionate share of the war’s burden”.

A) Invasion and occupation was and is IN FACT illegal ( despote the post facto “invitation” of a puppet government for the US to remain and the UN’s acceptance of the fait accompli).

B) Though the US has sepnt 600 Billion, has over 4000 dead and 40,000 wounded, the Iraqi’s have last 500,000 to 1 million, have over 2 million refugeess and their country has been destroyed. The disproportiante burden lies with the Iraqis, NOT the US.

]]> By: texaslady http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919096 texaslady Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:26:41 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919096 Impeachment, shamed out of office, would be a healing for this country, but are there any backbones in Washington to do this ? Doubt it. Impeachment, shamed out of office, would be a healing for this country, but are there any backbones in Washington to do this ? Doubt it.

]]> By: lvdragonlady http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919088 lvdragonlady Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:24:10 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919088 Like it too 'rocket science' to figure this out. Hell, shrubie did not go to war so what made him think he got play 'god' and start one just to see how is it done. SOB needs to be IMPEACHED. Like it too ‘rocket science’ to figure this out.
Hell, shrubie did not go to war so what made him think he got play ‘god’ and start one just to see how is it done.
SOB needs to be IMPEACHED.

]]> By: Anacher Forester http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919054 Anacher Forester Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:15:16 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919054 Seeing that the world is soon to be flooded with former Bush Administration idiots claiming "It wasn't my fault," Collins is wise to take this opportunity to try to launch a preemptive strike. It'll be easier to reclaim part of his tattered reputation now rather than later. What do you wanna bet he's using this in part to lure editors for a potential book deal? <strong>-AF</strong> <a href="http://sullyisafraud.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud</a> Seeing that the world is soon to be flooded with former Bush Administration idiots claiming “It wasn’t my fault,” Collins is wise to take this opportunity to try to launch a preemptive strike. It’ll be easier to reclaim part of his tattered reputation now rather than later.

What do you wanna bet he’s using this in part to lure editors for a potential book deal?

-AF
Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud

]]> By: texaslady http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/comment-page-2/#comment-4919044 texaslady Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:11:14 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/collins-iraq-debacle/#comment-4919044 DaTruth - think about how much money it took to buy the 2004 election, and it happened didn't it. The money is always there when there is a payoff at the end. DaTruth – think about how much money it took to buy the 2004 election, and it happened didn’t it. The money is always there when there is a payoff at the end.

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