Contradicting His Hero Ben Franklin, Gingrich Says Americans ‘Will Give Up All Their Liberties’ For Safety
Contradicting His Hero Ben Franklin, Gingrich Says Americans ‘Will Give Up All Their Liberties’ For Safety
Yesterday, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich visited Drew University in New Jersey, where he took questions from 20 political science majors there. When one asked him how the government could justify stripping rights from Americans in such pieces of legislation as the Patriot Act, Gingrich said that the government has a “right to defend society,” and when under threat, “people will give up all their liberties“:
“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
Gingrich is directly contradicted by Benjamin Franklin, who rejected the notion that one should give up one’s liberties out of fear:
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
This disagreement is significant, because Gingrich considers Franklin one of his heroes. He prides himself on his Pennsylvania upbringing, where he says “it was easy…to imbue a deep sense of the freedom that is at the heart of the American tradition,” and he frequently invokes Franklin to buttress his conservative claims about individual responsibility and religion in public life:
“Only Franklin personified the striving, ambitious, rising system of individual achievement, hard work, thrift and optimism found at the heart of the American spirit. Only Franklin worked his way up in the worlds of business and organized political power in both colonial and national periods. Only Franklin was a…creator of the American mythos of the common man.” [LINK]
“During the Constitutional Convention of 1787, Benjamin Franklin (often considered one of the least religious of the Founding Fathers) proposed that the Convention begin each day with a prayer. … [T]he Founding Fathers, from the very birth of the United States, saw God as central to defining America.” [LINK]
“Franklin, who was quite old and had been relatively quiet for the entire Convention, suddenly stood up and was angry, and he said: I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men, and if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?” [LINK]
Gingrich accuses “the secular Left” of trying to rid religion from public life, thereby “distorting the Constitution to achieve a goal that the Founding Fathers would have found to be a fundamental threat to liberty.” Yet it his own cavalier subordination of civil liberties in the name of national security that would truly offend the Founders.
'I conceive that the great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.'
'A great empire, like a great cake, is most easily diminished at the edges.'
Benjamin Franklin"
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Wow, how embarrassing to piss your pants in front of 20 co-eds.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:11 pmMay I ask why is this lack of moral person always being given any notice at all ? The latest was talking with Pelosi, why is he even allowed a conversation ? He needs to go back under the rock he deserves.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pmThe newt has been out and about lately, I wonder why.? Is he hoping for a nod from another reich winger to a new station in life?…Go back to your dark wet basement newt, your not needed here…..Blessings
April 18th, 2008 at 2:15 pmWasn’t it Ben Franklin who wrote in the Farmers’ Almanac: “Giving up your liberties in security’s pursuit, Leaves you as intelligent as a brain-baked Newt.”?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:16 pm“Contradicting His Hero Ben Franklin, Gingrich Says Americans ‘Will Give Up All Their Liberties’ For Safety”
______________________________________________
Not THIS American!
April 18th, 2008 at 2:17 pmThis slim bag adulterer isn’t in an old folks home yet?
And NO NEWT (small slimy reptile) I am not going to give up my freedoms from the Republican Fake war on terror, not now, not ever.
You on the other hand can go hide under your bed, with Southern Moron and the rest.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:19 pm“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
Obviously, the founding fathers did not consider the British invasion of 1776 to be a threat.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:20 pmGingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
———–
That’s what you bozos are counting on, aren’t you?
That’s why it’s terror terror terror all the time and be afraid be afraid be afraid!
Unfortunately, apparently a lot of people have bought the hype.
In an article subtitled, “As we wrap ourselves in the flag, let’s not forget to cling tightly to the Bill of Rights”, the author quotes a relatively recent poll:
“More ominously, support dropped only slightly, to 71 percent, when people were asked whether they were prepared to give up ” some of Americans’ personal liberties and privacy.”
The well-written article quoted above ends this way:
“In a mind-boggling column for the New York Post last week in which he labeled foreign-born Middle Easterners a potential ” fifth column, ” John Podhoretz wrote: ” Leftist civil libertarians and right-wing anti-government types can do their part … to protect Muslims and Arab-Americans — with a generous display of silence and understanding when it comes to the new surveillance techniques being adopted by law enforcement. Their standard-issue complaints ring hollow at a time of war, when civil liberties must necessarily be curtailed to some degree. ”
Obviously, fighting terrorism worldwide will not be sufficient to save the United States as we know it. If Podhoretz’s sneering dismissal of constitutional protections is any indication, we’re going to have to fight repression at home as well.”
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/ boston/ news_features/ top/ features/ documents/ 01839407.htm
They want us to be silent folks!
April 18th, 2008 at 2:20 pmGive up my rights to be secure! I think not.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:21 pmThe government, as it is run now, is not an enity that I would put my faith in, for anything.
Keep your guns and tell the government to go to hell.
As I often say, Republicans are too cowardly to be Americans and I am never going to be scared enough to be a Republican.
What a bunch of sissies.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:23 pmHow do these people, Newt, even get speaking engagements, paying even !
April 18th, 2008 at 2:24 pmAre we still free to dump our cancer ridden wife while she’s in the hospital?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pmdoes newt know about all the fun ben had while in france?
if “john adams” is historically accurate, and y’know it is, woo hoo! go ben!
these fright-wingers (i read that somewhere) are almost a joke…
April 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pmif they hadn’t already done so much damage…
The real truth behind societies submission. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com Then lets have a talk with the Newt. IDIOT.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pmGingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
I fu(king spit out my coffee when I read those words. Is the right side so terrified of a bunch of cave dwellers? How on earth can we win the Global War on Terror with these pussies in charge? The authoritarians think we are so dependent on their wisdom and protection we will blindly give up our “God given inalienable rights”? NO FU(KING WAY!!!!!! Tell you what Newt, you come to my house and just try and take my liberties away - just try. You will leave in various pieces - none of which will be larger than 1 inch square. I Promise.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:30 pmAgain, people actually pay to hear this degenerate moron ?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:31 pmHow about taking gingrich’s rights away to protect ours ! Like a padded cell somewhere without windows.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:32 pmGood grief I just realized gingrich is just an ann coulter, rush, orielly. They say anything to get two minutes of publicity.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:33 pmO’er the land of the free and home of the brave.
Gingrich prefers land of cowards hiding under our beds.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:38 pmContradicting His Hero Ben Franklin, Gingrich Says Americans ‘Will Give Up All Their Liberties’ For Safety
Ummm , not a chance in hell , Newt
No real American would even though GOP/Chimpy backers would ; but they aren’t Americans anyway , so who gives a damn ………
April 18th, 2008 at 2:40 pm…and if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?
Don’t get me wrong, I love Ben Franklin as much as anyone living in the 21st century could. (He was great on the Colbert Report this week.) But if this quote is accurate, then it sounds like Ben was saying that opposing the British Empire would be an affront to God. After all, according to Franklin, God must have helped the British control the world back then, so to defy the Empire would be to defy the will of God. Wouldn’t it? So why would God approve what the revolutionaries were doing in Philadelphia back then (Annuit Coeptus)?
Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
April 18th, 2008 at 2:40 pmWhen in God we do believe.
The fu(ck I will!!!
April 18th, 2008 at 2:41 pmGood plan to give up everything. That’s how we started and why this Nation was formed. The Founding Fathers spoke of how people were treated under King George, Taxation without Representation. Now we will see what it was like before 1776. Yes I look forward to the cotton fields and building new rail roads. Woman can get back to where they started in the kitchen and the bed room. Hanging will be the entertainment again. Good to see the South will finally raise again. Time to open those History books to see what we’re in for with the new President. At lease we will have the minorities to fight what ever country we decide to bomb. New Pottersville should replace the camps of the pass. Americans should make sure they get their passports quick before the November election just in case. Canada and Mexico are going to be crowed by Americans. I’m to old to be a slave it’s just not in me. I’ll be going to England. But I will read the news of America and check the web sites. My Family already did the time of working for nothing as former Slaves and even during the struggle for equal rights. I know Senator Obama has no knowledge of the history of black Americans but I did pay attention to the stories and lived watched the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s until today.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:43 pmI realize it’s a grievous Internet error to invoke A____ H_____ , but that’s exactly the same argument used by the N____ . “Give up all your rights in defense of the Fatherland!”
Newt again reveals his contempt for democracy and embrace of totalitarianism.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:45 pmGingrich is on the wrong side of another issue. How in-the-hell can somebody that smart be so dumb. Defend society, Mr. Gingrich is what a new “Democratic” Administration will do! Leading this country by FEAR, Mr. Gingrich has caused the Republican Party to relinquish its leadership role.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:45 pmGingrich accuses “the secular Left” of trying to rid religion from public life, thereby “distorting the Constitution to achieve a goal that the Founding Fathers would have found to be a fundamental threat to liberty.”
What an imbecile this dishonest , immoral worm is …….
Is the “secular left” demanding that churches be closed and not ever be allowed to be built ?
“Public life” is the outside world ; the “left” doesn’t give a damn if you’re foolish enough to believe in any/all religions (which are fraudulent , anyway).
“Public life” in which the State or Federal government are concerned , should have NO TIES OR REFERRENCE(S) TO “GOD”.
“Separation of church and state” ; ever hear of that phrase , Newt , you sorry putz ?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:50 pmReich-wingers, why do you think you can speak for the masses?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:50 pm“People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.”
Republican people may, but I won’t. These people are despicable cowards.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pmvat694848 Says:
How in-the-hell can somebody that smart be so dumb.
They can’t. Newt isn’t smart. He goes hunting for giraffes in Georgia.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pmBTW
Is it just me , or does Newt look like a cartoonish fat kid in the pic ?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pmTime for a LONG, cooling off period for Newter….Like in a CELL AT GITMO!
April 18th, 2008 at 2:54 pmMCMetal Says:
…does Newt look like a cartoonish fat kid…
Some things never change.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:55 pmSure thing newtskie, tell me more about how you know what ‘people’ will do.
If it wasn’t for TP posting it, I would never know about a single word this jerk says.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:55 pmYeah, here’s another Franklin quote you won’t hear Gingrich or ANY OTHER conservative mention:
“Private property … is a Creature of Society, and is subject to the Calls of that Society, whenever its Necessities shall require it, even to its last Farthing, its contributors therefore to the public Exigencies are not to be considered a Benefit on the Public, entitling the Contributors to the Distinctions of Honor and Power, but as the Return of an Obligation previously received, or as payment for a just Debt.”
April 18th, 2008 at 2:55 pmlokidog Says:
——————————————————————————–
Are we still free to dump our cancer ridden wife while she’s in the hospital?
April 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Only if you’re part of the hypocrisy known as the GOP……..
April 18th, 2008 at 2:56 pmOOooooh, oooooh, Newt - you start!
April 18th, 2008 at 2:57 pmHow about giving up the right to cheat on your wife while publicly condemning the sitting president for doing the same thing? Give up the right to be a hypocrite - I double dog dare you!
Fascism has arrived along with Newt and his Contract for America.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:59 pmAnother Franklin quote you’ll never see a conservative or libertarian mention:
“All property, indeed, except the savage’s temporary cabin, his bow, his matchcoat and other little Acquisitions absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the creature of public Convention. Hence, the public has the rights of regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the quantity and uses of it. All the property that is necessary to a man is his natural Right, which none may justly deprive him of, but all Property superfluous to such Purposes is the property of the Public who, by their Laws have created it and who may, by other Laws dispose of it.”
April 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pm“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
______________________________________________
I wonder if that would include the right to bear arms? Somehow, I think the second amendment would still be sacred in GOP-land even after all the rest of them are ripped to shreds.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pmI’ve seen Gingrich’s vision for America and it resembles Nazi-era Germany. Papers, please?
April 18th, 2008 at 3:02 pmYou can’t take away my civil liberties; I’m still using them.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:04 pmWhat is Gringrich running for this time? Chief Tool?
Like many of his ilk, Newtie speaks fluent jabberwocky. No personal principle is too sacred, no falsehood is too blatant, no argument is too incomprehensible in the pursuit of scoring cheap political points.
-AF
April 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pmAndrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
kasinca Says:
Fascism has arrived along with Newt and his Contract for America.
You mean his Contract On America.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:07 pm“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
Which is why the garbage GOP will be going the way of the dodo , shortly ; those who possess leadership and competence can defend society and liberties as one.
They need not make everyone choose one or the other , like the GOP , because of the incompotence and inabilities that are laden throughout the entire sorry GOP landscape.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:10 pm“All wars are follies, very expensive and very mischievous ones.”
“I conceive that the great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.”
“A great empire, like a great cake, is most easily diminished at the edges.”
Benjamin Franklin
April 18th, 2008 at 3:11 pm““If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said”.
I agree!
April 18th, 2008 at 3:17 pmThe threat is the GOP and I will take up arms to defend myself and my family from that threat.
This should highlight the obvious and most important difference between Franklin and Newt: Newt never faced real danger in his life. Just outrageous, well-deserved EMBARRASSMENT for utter hypocrisy.
During the Declaration of Independence signing ceremony in Philadelphia on July 4, 1776, Franklin wittily commented:
“Gentlemen, we must all hang together…or we shall all hang SEPARATELY–at the end of a rope.”
And I paraphrase.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:17 pmIt isn’t a contradiction. Franklin observes that people will get what they deserve, and that they will get what they want. Maybe some college idealists along the way got the notion that because Franklin implied that freedom is more important than safety, and because he’s a celebrated American thinker, that we would always follow his advice.
But our own actions, taken in the heat of the moment, under political pressure, show the opposite. Freedom was a theory laid out in advance of the unfolding of political reality. Thus it was something to be destroyed along the way. Once we feel safe again perhaps we can unfurl the flag and reestablish the sense of freedom. And that impression is undoubtedly valuable in itself. However, what Gingrich says does seem to have been shown to be fundamentally true.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:20 pmSo… just so that I have this down correctly mister Newt… The government is protecting our freedoms from outside threat, under which we should give up our freedoms to be more secure from the threat against our freedoms…
One more question, mister Gingrich.. When exactly after your career as a politician was it that you became a turnip?
April 18th, 2008 at 3:21 pmGive up my rights??? How about having my rights taken away under the guise of war on terror. No one asked me to give up anything - they tooks them away and told me it was for my own good! And they will continue to take awawy our rights until we end this regime through impeachment or election this will continue. And, unless we hold our two current candidates accountable to answer some of these pressing questions, it could continue.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:22 pmErebos Says:
However, what Gingrich says does seem to have been shown to be fundamentally true.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Ummm , no
“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
GOP backers will ; he doesn’t make that distinction.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:24 pmswordsbane Says:
One more question, mister Gingrich.. When exactly after your career as a politician was it that you became a turnip?
Actually, that happened before he became a Republican politician.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pmActually, Newt’s ‘Contract on America’ worked quite well for the RNC.
-We have fewer liberties
-We have a never ending war
-We have a IOKIYAR as a new construct
-We have private entities billing our tax dollars at will
-We have a lapdog media
-We have Hate Radio everywhere, 24/7
-We have telecoms spying on Americans (before 9/11)
-We have Bush League tentacles infiltrating every level of policy
-We have a SCOTUS filled with Rightards
-We have an AG that doesn’t believe in Justice
-We have flag pins representing Patriotism (made in China)
-We have Presidential candidate debates with no moderators
-We have $4/gal gas staring at us by July 1st
Thanks Newt…we have it all now!
April 18th, 2008 at 3:28 pm/snark
Then explain how we have protected our freedoms by giving them away in order to be protected. Soldiers are supposedly dying in Iraq to protect not only our lives, but our values INCLUDING freedom. What do you say to them when they come back and we have to say “Hey.. thanks and all… but we gave our freedoms to the government.”
April 18th, 2008 at 3:38 pmActually, that happened before he became a Republican politician.
Actually, he used to be a good politician. Evil, sure.. but good. But it takes a special kind of stupid to say what he just said.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:46 pmMaybe some Conservative idealists along the way got the notion that because Gingrich implied that Americans consider freedom less important than safety, and because he’s a celebrated conservative thinker, that we would always treat his statements as “fundamentally true”.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:51 pmAbraham Lincoln once called this nation the Last, Best Hope on Earth. He’s got to be rotating in his crypt at what his party’s devolved into. Here’s an appropriat quote of his; “Those who deny freedom for others deserve it not for themselves and, under a just God, cannot long retain it.” Here’s hoping he was right.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:04 pmImpeach Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution
Abu Ben Hussein Leporello.
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” - Sinclair Lewis
April 18th, 2008 at 4:07 pmThey’re not far from being true on some level. Except for the big “gaffes” (eg the attorney scandal and the telecom scandal) there hasn’t been a lot of pushback from the public on some of the more nasty restrictions enabled after 9/11. Newt’s right in one sense: When we get scared, we lose track of our freedoms.
Even now. The democratic majority isn’t all that great and although Bush’s approval rating has been in the toilet for some time, McCain stands a decent chance of actually WINNING the election. Where’s the public outrage? Where’s the symbolic storming of the gates and pitching all the people who supported the war out? Hillary supported the war and she’s one of the finalists in the Primary. 9/11 and the Iraq war should have been a wake-up call to everyone. Instead it was a wakeup call to way too few, and the rest are still blinking and saying “Did you hear something?” Newt should be scared to death of uttering a phrase like that. The fact that he has the guts to do it and the fact that probably nothing will really come of it is one of the more frightening things I’ve seen in the last year or so.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:08 pmHey slimy amphibian guy! Got any cancer ridden spouses to divorce?
April 18th, 2008 at 4:46 pm“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
Newtie Crotchitch is a signatory on the PNAC Manifesto, nest paw?
The one in which they noted that all they needed was a nice, “Pearl Harbor” moment to facilitate their take over?
Newtie should be wrapped in papier mache and dangled from a tree and be beaten by particularly vicious children with carved pinata bats…
April 18th, 2008 at 4:55 pmHeh. They can pry my civil liberties out of my cold, dead hands.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:05 pmAll of these right wing bastards are cowards. They project THEIR cowardice onto the rest of us. Whatever happened to “Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death”? I guess the new credo of these snakes is “Take My Liberty, PLEASE, while I hide behind the flag”.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:10 pmmisshusseinmolly Says:
——————————————————————————–
“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“
______________________________________________
I wonder if that would include the right to bear arms? Somehow, I think the second amendment would still be sacred in GOP-land even after all the rest of them are ripped to shreds.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
I know there will be people who disagree with me (and I don’t care), but the Second Amendment is a Collective Right of the People, not an Individual Right of each person. It means that states may have militias (for the purposes of defending their borders), but that would also mean that the Public has the right to decide where those arms will be kept (such as in an armory, accessible only by members of a well-regulated militia).
There is no Individual Right to bear arms in the Constitution.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:14 pmAm I the only one that finds Newtie’s statement rather ominous ?
Does his statement mean that he has already planned a way to get the people to give up their liberties ?
April 18th, 2008 at 5:21 pmWhy are all of these neocons such chickensh!ts? I thought they were all going to see Jeebus when they die.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:32 pmGingrich is full of sh()t. Start monitoring his phone calls with his full knowledge, and watch him start screaming like a girl.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:45 pmThere is no Individual Right to bear arms in the Constitution.
I don’t know about you, but there is NO WAY you’ll convince me that it is a good idea to have the honest citizenry disarmed and only criminals and the government with the guns. At this point, I don’t CARE if it’s in the Constitution or not, the way our elected officials have been acting.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:52 pmListen in on my phone calls. Read my email. Label me an enemy combatant. Arrest me and send me to Guantanamo. Torture me. ANYTHING, as long as I feel SAFE.
These nutjobs just get nuttier.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:55 pmTo HELL with him, and the whole damn bunch.
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
April 18th, 2008 at 5:58 pmBenjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
If our Founding Fathers had taken the position that safety is more important than freedom, perhaps we would still be a British colony today — or at least part of the British Commonwealth.
The Founding Fathers were obeying what they believed to be a higher calling — they firmly believed that there was something infinitely more important at stake than their own individual lives, and in fact were literally risking their lives in their fight for independence. Had the Revolutionary War not succeeded, it’s quite possible that they would have been tried and found guilty of treason — for which the usual penalty at the time was execution via hanging, drawing, and quartering. Compare this with people like Gingrich who are apparently so desperate to save their own skins that they’d potentially be willing to sacrifice the liberty of everyone else in this country for the faint promise that this will keep them safer as individuals — when anyone in their right mind knows that people who live in a country without civil liberties are potentially in just as much or even more danger from their own leaders than they are from any external threat.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:13 pm“his disagreement is significant, because Gingrich considers Franklin one of his heroes”. are you kidding , he’s advocating a POLICE STATE or Surveillance Society , THAT…THAT is what’s significant and every tyrant in history knew that the way to take control is to manufacture a threat .
April 18th, 2008 at 6:44 pmFrom PNAC’S ” WE NEED A PEARL HARBOR ‘ nEOCONS HAVE ADMITTED the only way to get the country to follow , is to have a threat or outside enemy and make nO mistake , Gingrinch is part of the same cabal , the real id micro-chip ID ; no fly list ; corporate fascist that colluding with the Gov. (AT&T, Verizon )by giving them access to private information to Cell phones, email ; Richard Haass form the Council on Foreign Relations , who advocates and actually writes about U.S. “monetary sovereignty is a hindrance” to economic success , is a guest on CBS “news” .
These Globalists are working for a one world government for a long, long time , just READ what they say . Newt is just part of a large network of Council on Foreign Relations goons , that want to see U.S. sovereignty destroyed .
Remember , the people of Europe didn’t want the EURO , but they got it anyway and the same thing is planned for the U.S. /Mexico/Canada . The next step will and they have written about it , is to join the Euro with the Amero , for one world currency .
Which American he was tolking to??????
April 18th, 2008 at 6:56 pmThreat to the United States? What kind of threat to the United States?
1. Does it compare to the depredations to frontier settlements during the French and Indian Wars in which thousands upon thousands died in relation to a population of 1.25 million in 1750?
2. Does it compare to the internal displacement, cities and towns destroyed and the deaths (military and civilian) during the Revolutionary War?
3. Does it compare to the blockading of our trade, the burning of the White House and the occupation of Washington DC during the War of 1812?
4. How does it compare to the threat to the existence of the United States during the Civil War? The literal secession of the southern states, 620,000 soldiers (North and South) dead and more than 300,000 wounded and an untold civilian death toll.
5. Should we discuss the threat of WWI? Not nearly as much.
6. What about WWII? The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and its occupation of the Aleution Islands and bombardment of shore facilities? The sinking of US commercial shipping by Nazi U-Boats within sight of the coast of the United States? The fact that most of Europe and Asia and their resources had fallen into the hands of fascist governments arrayed against the United States?
7. The Cold War in which two well matched opponents waited in nuclear bomb proof bunkers with the ability to wipe out the population of the entire planet?
Does anything that AQ did prior to the World Trade Tower attacks even come close to these threats? No, not even remotely close. Even the World Trade Tower attack, although horrendous and without adequate justification, never posed a serious threat to the United States. Indeed, with its approximate 5000 members at the time of the attack was a serious nuisance to the US but not a threat. The trade towers attack raised it to a sufficient threat to be squashed.
After the Civil War, the Supreme Court found the suspension of habeus corpus by the president and congress excessive given the threat to the US. After WWII, the Supreme Court found the internment of Japanese Americans unlawful. After Watergate, the depredations of Nixon and his surveillance unlawful. Now with by far one of the mildest threats in terms of the survival of the US, we have a former Congressman saying that it justifies the suspension of all rights.
Hitler invented false threat before the rise of the Nazi’s. Is this really anything more than fear mongering to create a tyrannical president?
April 18th, 2008 at 8:36 pmNot surprised to hear him betraying a central principle of American patriotism, but I’m getting more than a little tired of hearing what this failed congressional leader has to say about anything.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:23 pmThis is a man who attacked Clinton for his affairs while quietly having his own and this is the man that not all too long time ago called Iran a greater threat than nazi-Germany.
April 19th, 2008 at 12:26 amswordsbane Says:
Actually, that happened before he became a Republican politician.
Actually, he used to be a good politician. Evil, sure.. but good. But it takes a special kind of stupid to say what he just said.
Well sure he was a good politician. Most Republicans are good politicians. When you represent 2% of the people and get 50% of the vote, you are a good politician.
Newt Gingrich is a bad person, but he was a good Republican politician, in that he fooled a lot of dumbass redneck Georgians into voting against their own interests.
The Republican base is dumbass rednecks, who vote against their own interests.
April 19th, 2008 at 12:36 amI realize that this is quibbling about words, but please don’t call Newtie a “good” politician. He was successful at pushing through policies against the national interest and uniting the Repubs behind those policies.
But while effective at evil, he didn’t represent the people who elected him, and wasn’t “good” by and other measure of goodness that I can think of. In short, its like Satan is a good devil.
Also, I keep reptiles and amphibians. I know herps. Gingrich is NO herp.
April 19th, 2008 at 1:53 amFor McCain’s VP,
It has got to be between Newt, Limbaugh, Rice or Coulter.
April 19th, 2008 at 3:10 amI know not what course Newt may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
April 19th, 2008 at 11:05 pmOh yeah, just FYI, newts are amphibians, not reptiles. (Actually, newts are the larval form of of the innocuous and pleasant salamander.)
Newts are similar to their reptilian cousins however in that they are a nobler and less slimy creature than a Gingrich.
April 20th, 2008 at 7:10 pmIt’s not only Franklin with which Gingrich is at odds. It’s every founding father and Thomas Jefferson as well.
“…government has a “right to defend society,” and when under threat, “people will give up all their liberties“ –Newt
The responsibilities of the ‘government’ is CLEARLY spelled out in the Constitution itself. The Constitution is specific about those instances in which Habeas Corpus may be suspended. A phony state of emergency and lies about WMD don’t qualify. Newt’s ‘position’ is typical ‘backward’ thinking that makes of the state an ‘end’ in itself. It’s not.
The Constitution, however, assigns to government but ONE overarching responsibility and, as Jefferson said “… Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.”
The time has come to ‘abolish’ it!! The government, therefore, is NOT the source of our rights. Rather, ‘powers’ exercised by government derive from US! And “US” is not happy with the arbitrary and dictatorial manner in which the Bush administration has not only lied about both Iraq and terrorism, he has failed his ONLY Constitutional responsibility:
“I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” (Oath of Office)
Preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States was and remains Bush’s ONLY job. He has not merely failed that, he has worked overtly to subvert the Constitution. Put another way: Bush put his hand on a black book and lied –under oath! Note to Newt: THAT IS HIGH TREASON! In the 18th Century, that was sufficient cause for a hanging.
The subversion of the Constitution was effected –not by alleged ‘terrorists’ –but by Bush and his complicit supporters like Newt Gingrich. Of Al Qaeda and Bush, Bush is the bigger threat! He’s here, on our soil, every day!
April 21st, 2008 at 5:39 am