Comments on: Yglesias: Bush foreign policy has been a ‘huge disaster.’ http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:20:24 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Bluestocking http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4935568 Bluestocking Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:52:47 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4935568 This is one of the pitfalls inherent in being one of the world's dominant -- if not the most dominant -- military superpowers, and nearly every single one of the world's dominant military superpowers throughout history has found this out the hard way. As the old proverb states -- "when you have a big enough hammer, everything starts to look like a nail." It doesn't seem entirely inappropriate to sum up much of Bush administration foreign policy as "shoot first -- or at least flex your muscles in an intimidating manner -- and ask questions later, if at all." While this may be somewhat effective in the short term, there is such a thing as being "penny wise but pound foolish" -- and as most of the world's superpowers throughout history have learned to their great cost, that doesn't work well in the long run. Insist on riding roughshod over everyone else and quite naturally, they gradually come to resent and hate you -- do it often enough, and eventually they band together in force against you. This is one of the pitfalls inherent in being one of the world’s dominant — if not the most dominant — military superpowers, and nearly every single one of the world’s dominant military superpowers throughout history has found this out the hard way. As the old proverb states — “when you have a big enough hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.” It doesn’t seem entirely inappropriate to sum up much of Bush administration foreign policy as “shoot first — or at least flex your muscles in an intimidating manner — and ask questions later, if at all.” While this may be somewhat effective in the short term, there is such a thing as being “penny wise but pound foolish” — and as most of the world’s superpowers throughout history have learned to their great cost, that doesn’t work well in the long run. Insist on riding roughshod over everyone else and quite naturally, they gradually come to resent and hate you — do it often enough, and eventually they band together in force against you.

]]> By: phred42 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4935114 phred42 Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:27:20 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4935114 <strong>Depends on your goals doesn't it?</strong> Most people STILL view these issues from their own perspective. The perspective of a rational Nation loving AMERICAN. Try looking at it from the Corporate, Fascist, NeoCon, anti-Constitution, anti-Democracy, Anti-American Republican perspective. <strong>From THIS perspective Bush and his policies have been wildly successful.</strong> We need to STOP judging Bush and the NeoCons by our standards. They have a completely different set of values than the ones you probably grew up with. Depends on your goals doesn’t it?

Most people STILL view these issues from their own perspective. The perspective of a rational Nation loving AMERICAN. Try looking at it from the Corporate, Fascist, NeoCon, anti-Constitution, anti-Democracy, Anti-American Republican perspective.

From THIS perspective Bush and his policies have been wildly successful.

We need to STOP judging Bush and the NeoCons by our standards. They have a completely different set of values than the ones you probably grew up with.

]]> By: octavia http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4935050 octavia Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:04:24 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4935050 o look at the map of Kosovo, and the location and direction of the pipelines that flow through there, and then look for Camp Bondsteel–one of only two man-made structures visible from space–and repeat the fallacy that Clenis’ overthrow of Milosevicz was ‘humanitarian.’<a href="http://www.impotencehealthcenter.com" rel="nofollow">Cialis</a> o look at the map of Kosovo, and the location and direction of the pipelines that flow through there, and then look for Camp Bondsteel–one of only two man-made structures visible from space–and repeat the fallacy that Clenis’ overthrow of Milosevicz was ‘humanitarian.’Cialis

]]> By: StratRat http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934796 StratRat Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:18:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934796 <em>After 6 1/2 years free from domestic terror, many have become complacent that threat has abated and are also disillusioned with the difficulty, mismanagement and cost of the war in Iraq.</em> Well, not entirely free from domestic terror. I remember my 4th amendment being shredded. I also remember Habeas Corpus being done away with. Oh yeah, rendition is a very big possibilty, how about the famous hospital scene with ashcroft. Maybe think of every incompetent crony W could find to screw up the DOJ, DOE, Treasury, etc...It goes on and on. Plus, bin Laden has America right where he wanted it. Bush gave him our country on a platter. After 6 1/2 years free from domestic terror, many have become complacent that threat has abated and are also disillusioned with the difficulty, mismanagement and cost of the war in Iraq.

Well, not entirely free from domestic terror. I remember my 4th amendment being shredded. I also remember Habeas Corpus being done away with. Oh yeah, rendition is a very big possibilty, how about the famous hospital scene with ashcroft. Maybe think of every incompetent crony W could find to screw up the DOJ, DOE, Treasury, etc…It goes on and on.

Plus, bin Laden has America right where he wanted it. Bush gave him our country on a platter.

]]> By: MOONBAT http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934790 MOONBAT Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:14:41 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934790 Thought of the day for this administration: Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Isacc Asimov Thought of the day for this administration:

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Isacc Asimov

]]> By: backup http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934786 backup Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:11:11 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934786 The idea of pre-emption was a result of recognition that the world had changed (after 9/11) and we faced different threats that could not be adequately addressed using the reactive measures that we had relied upon in the past. Bush was not the only one who understood that at the time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_KEWUU33Lg&feature=related http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp After 6 1/2 years free from domestic terror, many have become complacent that threat has abated and are also disillusioned with the difficulty, mismanagement and cost of the war in Iraq. Many politicians may want to distance themselves from the policy today, but before the war, most expressed the same concerns that lead Bush to invade in the first place. The idea of pre-emption was a result of recognition that the world had changed (after 9/11) and we faced different threats that could not be adequately addressed using the reactive measures that we had relied upon in the past. Bush was not the only one who understood that at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_KEWUU33Lg&feature=related

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

After 6 1/2 years free from domestic terror, many have become complacent that threat has abated and are also disillusioned with the difficulty, mismanagement and cost of the war in Iraq. Many politicians may want to distance themselves from the policy today, but before the war, most expressed the same concerns that lead Bush to invade in the first place.

]]> By: jay_severin_has_a_small_pen1s http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934764 jay_severin_has_a_small_pen1s Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:49:32 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934764 I'm sure the NeoCons would argue that they didn't get to CUT OFF ENOUGH HEADS of enough regimes. I’m sure the NeoCons would argue that they didn’t get to CUT OFF ENOUGH HEADS of enough regimes.

]]> By: tokin librul http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934738 tokin librul Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:29:00 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934738 <i>though at least Clinton’s was for humanitarian reasons and not geo-political ones.</i> Go look at the map of Kosovo, and the location and direction of the pipelines that flow through there, and then look for Camp Bondsteel--one of only two man-made structures visible from space--and repeat the fallacy that Clenis' overthrow of Milosevicz was 'humanitarian.' As for the others, the reason for the intervention is and was, in fact, irrelevant. Mossadeq and Arbenz were overthrown because they threatened USer corporate dominion where it had long been established; not for alleged WMD, but for something even more dangerous: nationalism. It was not uniformed military, but CIA whic did those deeds, but they were Murkins nevertheless, and they were engaged in peremptory regime change. The examples of Panama & Grenada are even more apposite, because those regimes were overthrown on the bases that everybody KNEW were invented and spurious. Neither of those was even dangerous; we just tossed 'em like bad cops, because we could. though at least Clinton’s was for humanitarian reasons and not geo-political ones.

Go look at the map of Kosovo, and the location and direction of the pipelines that flow through there, and then look for Camp Bondsteel–one of only two man-made structures visible from space–and repeat the fallacy that Clenis’ overthrow of Milosevicz was ‘humanitarian.’

As for the others, the reason for the intervention is and was, in fact, irrelevant. Mossadeq and Arbenz were overthrown because they threatened USer corporate dominion where it had long been established; not for alleged WMD, but for something even more dangerous: nationalism. It was not uniformed military, but CIA whic did those deeds, but they were Murkins nevertheless, and they were engaged in peremptory regime change. The examples of Panama & Grenada are even more apposite, because those regimes were overthrown on the bases that everybody KNEW were invented and spurious. Neither of those was even dangerous; we just tossed ‘em like bad cops, because we could.

]]> By: dixie blood http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934710 dixie blood Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:13:20 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934710 <em>“Heads In The Sand: How the Republicans Screw Up Foreign Policy and Foreign Policy Screws Up the Democrats.” </em> Can anyone explain the phrase "and Foreign Policy Screws Up the Democrats" in the above title? What does that mean? “Heads In The Sand: How the Republicans Screw Up Foreign Policy and Foreign Policy Screws Up the Democrats.”

Can anyone explain the phrase “and Foreign Policy Screws Up the Democrats” in the above title?

What does that mean?

]]> By: impeachcheneythenbush http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934698 impeachcheneythenbush Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:59:06 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934698 tokin librul - incorrect. None of those actions taken by Eisenhower, Reagan, Bush I or Clinton had anything to do with preventative war...that is, war waged on the basis of PREVENTING a future danger of the development of weapons of mass destruction. That's not to say that most of those "adventures" were ill-advised, though at least Clinton's was for humanitarian reasons and not geo-political ones. tokin librul – incorrect. None of those actions taken by Eisenhower, Reagan, Bush I or Clinton had anything to do with preventative war…that is, war waged on the basis of PREVENTING a future danger of the development of weapons of mass destruction. That’s not to say that most of those “adventures” were ill-advised, though at least Clinton’s was for humanitarian reasons and not geo-political ones.

]]> By: Crusty Old Bastard http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934688 Crusty Old Bastard Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:54:04 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934688 "It’s been a huge disaster." No shit? What gave you the first clue? “It’s been a huge disaster.”

No shit?

What gave you the first clue?

]]> By: tokin librul http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934668 tokin librul Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:38:50 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934668 <blockquote>No president before George W. Bush ever suggested that American security required us to just go decapitate regimes on the theory that they might some day in the future acquire weapons that would be dangerous. It’s been a huge disaster.</blockquote>Ummmm....Eisenhower did it at least twice, with Mossadeq in Iran and Arbenz in Guatemala; we tried countless times against Fidel. Raygun did it in Grenada and tried it in Libya; and Poppy Bush pulled the same stunt in Panama amd tried it in Somalia. The Clenis went after Milosovicz. We have a bad record in these things, but there's no scarcity of examples...

No president before George W. Bush ever suggested that American security required us to just go decapitate regimes on the theory that they might some day in the future acquire weapons that would be dangerous. It’s been a huge disaster.

Ummmm….Eisenhower did it at least twice, with Mossadeq in Iran and Arbenz in Guatemala; we tried countless times against Fidel. Raygun did it in Grenada and tried it in Libya; and Poppy Bush pulled the same stunt in Panama amd tried it in Somalia. The Clenis went after Milosovicz. We have a bad record in these things, but there’s no scarcity of examples…

]]> By: robertoroberto http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934654 robertoroberto Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:28:55 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934654 *not MORE gun restrictions. *not MORE gun restrictions.

]]> By: robertoroberto http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-4934650 robertoroberto Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:26:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/28/yglesias-on-creating-a-better-foreign-policy/#comment-4934650 There is no justification for being the first country to shoot in a war. It reminds me of the guy who sold the weapons used in the virginia tech massacre going on campus to preach his resolution to the problem of school violence - more guns! Not less psychiatric medication. Not less gun purchasing restrictions. More guns! Violence breeds violence. It is cyclicle. Hasn't humanity learned anything from the Middle East? There is no justification for being the first country to shoot in a war. It reminds me of the guy who sold the weapons used in the virginia tech massacre going on campus to preach his resolution to the problem of school violence – more guns! Not less psychiatric medication. Not less gun purchasing restrictions. More guns! Violence breeds violence. It is cyclicle. Hasn’t humanity learned anything from the Middle East?

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