ThinkFast: May 5, 2008
ThinkFast: May 5, 2008
In remarks broadcast on Israeli television today, Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, dismissed any near future war with Iran, saying that because of U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, “it would be a very significant challenge for the United States right now to get into a third conflict in that part of the world.”
Militants from Hezbollah “have been training Iraqi militia fighters at a camp near Tehran, according to American interrogation reports that the United States has supplied to the Iraqi government.” The evidence, which was “provided by four Shiite militia members who were captured in Iraq late last year and questioned separately,” indicates that Iran is attempting to “train the fighters in unobtrusive ways.”
On Fox News Sunday, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean told host Chris Wallace, “There are some things in the [Fox] news department that have really been shockingly biased and I think that’s wrong and I just say so right up front.”
Though “the nation’s financial markets have rallied since early March” and stocks are up, the pain to the economy could just be starting. The Wall Street Journal reports that celebration over the resurgence in the markets “may be premature” because it is “common in a crisis for markets to hit bottom long before the economy does.”
Warren Buffett, the world’s richest person, yesterday said, “The U.S. is in recession as I define it. I would define that as a situation where people are doing less well than they were three months, six months or eight months earlier and most businesses find themselves in that position too.” In March, Buffett had also said that the country was in a recession “from a common sense standpoint.”
“State welfare rolls, which declined for more than a decade after a 1996 overhaul of the nation’s cash-assistance program, are beginning to rise, due in part to the struggling economy.” Welfare rolls rose about 0.6 percent in the first half of 2007, with 27 states reporting increases.
$0.15: The amount the national average price for regular gasoline rose in the past two weeks, according to a new survey. “The average price of self-serve regular gasoline on Friday was $3.62 a gallon,” up from $3.47 two weeks ago.
Auto industry lobbyists are engaging in a “state by state battle” to “dissuade lawmakers from following California’s move to regulate greenhouse-gas emissions.” “No state should set national policy,” said Dave McCurdy, president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, whose members include General Motors, Ford, and Toyota.
And finally: On Saturday, White House Press Secretary Dana Perino returned to her alma mater, Colorado State University, to deliver the commencement address. While there, she graciously posed for photographs and signed autographs, sometimes writing, “you go girl!” During her speech, she said, “I’ve learned so much. I study every night as if I’m going to have a final every day for the rest of my time at the White House. If I mess up, I’m just not going to flunk; I could start a war.”
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Why is Steny Hoyer working to REVERSE Democrat’s Victory on FISA?
Are House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and a small handful of “Blue Dog” Democrats working in secret to reverse one of the only worthwhile acts of Congressional Democrats since they were given control of Congress in 2006: namely, the refusal to vest the President with vast new warrantless eavesdropping powers and bequeath lawbreaking telecoms with amnesty? It certainly appears that way.
Full unedited post from Glenn Greenwald at:
May 5th, 2008 at 9:00 amhttp://www.salon.com/ opinion/ greenwald/ 2008/ 05/ 02/ hoyer/ index.html
Cazayoux wins La. special election
In a close race featuring millions of dollars in bruising television ads, Democrat Don Cazayoux defeated Republican Woody Jenkins on Saturday, winning another House seat for Democrats that had been long held by Republicans.
The National Republican Congressional Committee and several conservative groups poured nearly $1 million into the race in an effort to tie Cazayoux to Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).
The ads called the state representative “too liberal” for the district, which had been held by Republicans since 1974. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and labor unions responded with their own million-dollar ad blitz bashing Jenkins, a former state representative.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10062.html
This is a great day for the House of Representatives. Democrats won another seat, in a very hard fought battle. This makes the second seat lost by Republicans in two months. I think the message is loud and clear. We have another special election coming up May 13th in Mississippi. This is also traditionally a Republican held seat, it is to replace Sen. Roger Wicker (R).
May 5th, 2008 at 9:02 amIran vows not to halt its nuclear program despite pressure
Iran’s top leader says his country will not bend to international pressure and give up its nuclear program, according to state television.
Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the final say in all state matters, said Iran will continue its nuclear program despite Western efforts to thwart it with sanctions.
“No threat can hinder the Iranian nation from its path,” he said Sunday.
The U.N. Security Council has already imposed three sets of sanctions on Iran for its refusal to halt uranium enrichment. World powers agreed Friday to try again to lure Iran to the nuclear bargaining table with a repackaged set of incentives.
Diplomats said the offer contained no major new enticements.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?
id=D90F6N0G0&show_article=1
Bush is going to use this to start a war with Iran. He is going to start his propaganda machine about what a threat Iran is to National Security. Bush’s solution is to kill everyone that disagrees with him. That is not a diplomatic solution, that is called extermination.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:03 amI love Howard Dean.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:04 amClinton Defections Should Raise Eyebrows
This week, former Democratic National Committee Chair and superdelegate, Joe Andrew switched his support from Clinton to Obama. On the heels of the Indiana primary, Andrew, who lives in Indianapolis, also stated he planned to call the other superdelegates he knows, lobbying them to back Obama.
Given the context of Jeremiah Wright and the contested Indiana primary the Andrew defection is big not only because of his superdelegate status, but because he worked with the Clintons. But he is hardly the first.
Former Ambassador to Chile Gabriel Guerra-Mondragon, a major fundraiser for Hillary Clinton, recently left the campaign apparently to hold a similar position with Obama. According to NBC News, among the reasons for Guerra-Mondragon’s defection included his uneasiness with the tone of the Clinton campaign and was beginning to worry about what this would mean for the general election.
Former Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich, recently endorsed Obama. In addition to serving in the Clinton administration, Reich’s personal relationship with Bill and Hillary Clinton spans five decades.
In addition, Greg Craig, who served as special counsel to Bill Clinton during his impeachment; Anthony Lake, former National Security Adviser, have thrown their support to Obama. Even Obama’s chief political strategist David Axelrod worked for Hillary Clinton during her Senate campaign.
The first hint of defection came in early 2007 when Hollywood media mogul David Geffen, once a Clinton supporter who was reported to have raised $18 million for the former president, decided to hold a fundraiser for Obama.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ byron-williams/ clinton-defections-should_b_100056.html
Hillary has fractured the Democratic Party & Bill has lost his temper publicly too many times and has become reckless. Her build up and support of John McCain has been a bitter pill to swallow.
These numerous defections speak volumes of her decisions and her complete contempt for Obama. Her premise is that if you don’t vote for her, then you have to vote for John McCain. Hillary’s reasons are a Lifetime of Experience, they both have crossed the threshold for Commander & Chief and about National Security. John McCain’s indecisiveness is crystal clear to all the progressives, that precludes him, IMHO, of ever meeting the demands of Presidential Status. Her bonding with him on too many occasions is not showing bipartisanship to further our agenda. It is endorsing his Bush policies and a continuation of political corruption the likes this country has never seen before.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:09 am“I’ve learned so much. I study every night as if I’m going to have a final every day for the rest of my time at the White House. If I mess up, I’m just not going to flunk; I could start a war.”
Riiight. You’re so important, Dana. You’re not really just a press flack, you’re practically The Deciderer.
What was that Bay of Pigs thing, again?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:10 amDid the US Supreme Court just elect John McCain?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:12 amThe US Supreme Court has just dealt a serious blow to voters’ rights that could help put John McCain in the White House by eliminating tens of thousands of voters who generally vote Democratic.
By 6-3 the court has upheld an Indiana law that requires citizens to present a photo identification card in order to vote. Florida, Michigan, Louisiana, Georgia, Hawaii and South Dakota have similar laws. Though it’s unlikely, as many as two dozen other states could add them by election day. Other states, like Ohio, have less stringent ID requirements than Indiana’s, but still have certain restrictions that are strongly opposed by voter rights advocates.
The decision turns back two centuries of jurisprudence that has accepted a registered voter’s signature as sufficient identification for casting a ballot. By matching that signature against one given at registration, and with harsh penalties for ballot stuffing, the justices confirmed in their lead opinion that there is “no evidence” for the kind of widespread voter fraud Republican partisans have used to justify the demand for photo IDs.http://onlinejournal.com/ artman/ publish/ article_3240.shtml
**emphasis is mine
from Counterpunch (Chris Floyd):
And this is why torture is the core issue — perhaps the only real issue — in the presidential campaign. Iraq is not really an issue; whoever wins, the war will go on, in one form or another. Even under the so-called withdrawal plans of the “progressive” candidates, Americans will be killing and dying in Iraq for years to come. As for the economy, by their own admission none of the presidential aspirants will do anything more than tinker around the edges of the present rapacious system — an unholy marriage of crony capitalism and corporate socialism that has devastated America’s communities, left millions with harsher, diminished lives, corrupted civic society and degraded and homogenized American culture. For the elite factions that thrive on war profits and the brutal economic structure, none of the candidates represents a serious enough threat for any action — beyond the usual lying, sabotage, vote-rigging and media manipulation to get their favorite into power, of course.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:13 amAnd no state does. States set state policy.
Now maybe if there were a national policy, one other than punting, there’d be no need for states to set their own.
(This message has been a service for the elementary education of industrial guilds.)
May 5th, 2008 at 9:14 amFunny, General Mullen spoke highly of America’s reserve capacity to put a hurting on Iran not long ago. He cited Air Force and Naval assets as capable of doing major damage.
Pair this with Israel’s intelligence breaktrhrough and it could be bombs over Tehran in the near future. It’s a military attack, not a war. More Bush lingo parsing. How tiring…
http://www.jpost.com/ servlet/ Satellite?cid=1209627002111&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
They may rue the day they quit trading oil in dollars. It’s started more than one war.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:14 amHoward Dean told host Chris Wallace, “There are some things in the [Fox] news department that have really been shockingly biased and I think that’s wrong and I just say so right up front.”
Yeah, like the entire staff, the ‘news’ they decide to cover, the total support of any Republican agenda; good or bad and outright lies delivered by Fox in general.
Wallace tried to make Dean follow his baiting, but Dean wouldn’t bite.
It’s nice to see Howard Dean taking on Righties, but it makes one wonder where he’s been since the first of the year,eh?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:16 amClinton strategists weigh ‘nuclear option’ to take out Obama at convention
Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign claims to have a secret weapon up their sleeve.
According to a report Sunday, Clinton’s campaign could force the Democratic National Committee to seat Florida and Michigan, thereby potentially giving her the votes she needs to secure the Democratic nomination.
The climate, however, doesn’t appear to be ripe. Campaign strategists tell Thomas Edsall of the Huffington Post that “any attempt to deploy it would require a sharp (and by no means inevitable) shift in the political climate within Democratic circles by the end of this month.”
This “nuclear option” — the same term applied to a Republican effort in the Senate to destroy the chamber’s filibuster — would likely cause chaos among the party, particularly among activists.
http://rawstory.com/ news/ 2008/ Clinton_strategists_weigh_nuclear_option_to_0504.html
**I can’t even imagine what they might do. This is too much to handle.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:17 am“The training, the Americans say, is carried out at several camps near Tehran that are overseen by the Quds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Command, and the instruction is carried out by militants from Hezbollah”
Using Hezbollah fighters to train Iraqi militants at a Quds Force camp near Tehran is “unobtrusive”?! In this day and age of satellites? Hmmmm.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:20 amClinton dismisses “elite” economists on gas tax plan
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican-lite candidate Hillary Clinton on Sunday dismissed the “elite opinion” of economists who criticized her gas tax proposal, using a term that has dogged rival Barack Obama in recent weeks.
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ nm/ 20080504/ pl_nm/ usa_politics_dc
I am through with this person. I cannot characterize this as infighting anymore; she is directly giving Republicans ammunition and stooping to their mode of thinki– I’m sorry, stinking things through.
Explain to us again, Mrs. Clinton, what is your “nuclear option” for overtaking Obama’s delegate lead?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am#12 And the beat goes on Says:
Clinton strategists weigh ‘nuclear option’ to take out Obama at convention
Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign claims to have a secret weapon up their sleeve.
I agree with you. If this happens there will be such a backlash of outrage. I can’t even believe they are considering it. It shocked me speechless when I read the article this weekend.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:23 amExplain to us again, Mrs. Clinton, what is your “nuclear option” for overtaking Obama’s delegate lead?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:24 amShe’s planning on “obliterating” the Obama Nomination.
And the beat goes on Says: **I can’t even imagine what they might do. This is too much to handle.
From the article:
em>If the Rules Committee backed Clinton, Obama could appeal to the Credentials Committee. While the committee has yet to be formed, “the pattern of Clinton and Obama victories so far clearly suggests that Obama delegates on that committee will outnumber Clinton delegates,” Edsall notes, “though Obama will not, however, have a majority, according to most estimates, and the balance of power will be held by delegates appointed by DNC chair Howard Dean.”
And Dean has already publicly stated that the two states won’t be seating delegates, because they moved their primaries up. Her nuclear option will be shot down by Dean.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:27 amThe Wall Street Journal reports that celebration over the resurgence in the markets “may be premature” because it is “common in a crisis for markets to hit bottom long before the economy does.”
Especially when you have the Federal Reserve Board buying out businesses for them. The Bear Sterns bailout seemingly missed the public’s radar screen; where’s the outrage?
To date, lenders, banks & hedge funds have been unregulated and have run amok. Without tighter regulations, they will continue to do so at the expense of the American public.
I know, I know, we get $600.00. Compare that to the $30 Billion the Fed handed over to assist in the Bear Stern fiasco, which is the equivalent of 5 million ’stimulus’ checks.
The current administration is as fair & balanced as Fox Noise.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:28 amI haven’t yet read the economists’ take on Hillary’s support for the gas tax, but it doesn’t take a doctoral in economics to know that it’s a bad message for the Government to send.
Consider this: The average 3-month savings for this “tax holiday” would be $28. Taxes — state and federal — are not the burdensome part of a gasoline bill. If only people would see how much of a burden it would be w/o it. The taxes support infrastructure and other initiatives, and helps curb demand in a less expensive way than the companies themselves. The government would be sending a message that it’s OK to hoard, and it’s not.
Besides, if demand would increase due to to the tax holiday, prices would increase and the companies could raise prices to what they were when the taxes were in effect — thereby pocketing the difference, like a government-endorsed tax-shelter.
Obama is right. It’s a GIMMICK!
May 5th, 2008 at 9:31 amMcWars Says:
Obama is right. It’s a GIMMICK! (Gas tax moratorium.)
Agreed. Decaying & crumbling infrastructure, be it our highways or bridges, is coming home to roost. Suspending the only revenue stream allocated to fund this issue is nonsense.
Who’s idea was this first? Oh, wait, it doesn’t matter because you can’t tell the difference between Hillary & McCain anymore.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:36 amAnd the beat goes on Says:
Why couldn’t Florida and Michigan just follow the damn rules? Why did they have to put the party in this position? Florida and Michigan’s “Me first!” motive is going hand-in-hand with Hillary’s tactics, endangering the first-place standing of the democratic party. And what is Hillary-McCain-MSM doing? Locking the person who truly has a chance of winning in a room with his pastor.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:37 amI wonder if McSenile is going to ask Hitlary “Obliterating” Clinton to be his running mate?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am#12 - Clinton and the Nuclear Option
In order for Clinton’s “nuclear” option to work, she would need to have all the delegates in both MI and FL awarded to her. Not just the percentage of delegates she would get based on her votes, but ALL the delegates. If the Democrats were to allow something like that to happen, then it will destroy the party.
I have often said that if Hillary is the nominee, I would vote for her. But not if something like this were to happen. I would not only NOT vote for Hillary, I would also leave the Democratic Party.
And, Hi Zooey - I decided to participate in the Thinkfast threads, since this is the only place we can discuss the presidential election on this blog. Other than that, though, I won’t hang around here until TP starts covering the presidential election on their own.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:38 amThinkProgress has several articles this morning, mostly over in WonkRoom, about what a terrible idea the gas tax holiday is and how the candidate opposing this politically expedient, but ultimately disastrous, plan is the only one who could possibly be expected to show any backbone in the upcoming battles over the measures necessary to combat global warming like *raising* the gas tax, enforcing carbon credit prices, etc. I wish ThinkProgress would just come out and endorse Obama. It’s time to recognize that there is only one progressive candidate in this race.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:39 am#17 baarfly saya:
And Dean has already publicly stated that the two states won’t be seating delegates, because they moved their primaries up. Her nuclear option will be shot down by Dean.
I hope you are right but I really believe she will use it. She wants to win at all costs. Go Independent?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:41 amIt’s time to recognize that there is only one progressive candidate in this race.
Yes, but unless your unaware, TP has hitched it’s wagon to the Clinton machine years ago (Podesta a BIG contributor to her campaign.)
May 5th, 2008 at 9:41 amAh yes, the ever trustworthy “interrogation reports” that everyone trusts so much. So basically, some people said something that the US army likes because their family was threatened with rape and murder. Great, i believe all evidence put before me now. The mainstream media must stop with the Iran-Iraq connection.
As the saying goes, fool me once shame on me, fool me twice, shame on.. won’t get fooled again!
And by the way, in what kind of batfudge crazy journalism world way is that to start an article -
” Hezbollah, the Lebanese militant group, is training Iraqi fighters at a camp near Tehran, the New York Times said”
While the candidates argue about a gas tax which will be implemented or not implemented before they even become President, America is about to be drawn into another war.
Any one notice the similiarities between the timing of the Condit investigation and 9/11? And now the Palfrey investigation.. hmm.. how odd.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:41 amThanks for that link leftright on the rise in honor killings of women in Iraq. We don’t talk that much about it, but, women’s rights in Iraq have done nothing but degrade thanks to the invasion of Iraq. From the link:
“If before there was one dictator persecuting people, now almost everyone is persecuting women.
In the past five years it is has got [much] worse. It is difficult to described how terrible it is, how badly we have been pushed back to the dark ages.”
May 5th, 2008 at 9:42 amSpeaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said “there’s no reason to believe that any moratorium on the gas tax would be passed on to the consumer.” She has left the measure off the list of energy proposals that she may try to attach to the supplemental Iraq war-spending bill.
She understands that the oil companies likely would just experience “refinery problems” and raise the price, to take all the money from the “tax holiday,” and more besides.
Hillary knows it too, but is so consumed with winning, she’ll advocate it anyway, because she thinks it will damage Obama.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:44 amMcWars says:
Besides, if demand would increase due to to the tax holiday, prices would increase and the companies could raise prices to what they were when the taxes were in effect — thereby pocketing the difference, like a government-endorsed tax-shelter.
Obama is right. It’s a GIMMICK!
The demand wouldn’t even have to increase for the gas companies to raise their prices the 18 cents. There is no high demand for gasoline today and prices in my area have gone up more than 18 cents in the last three weeks.
Another thing that Hillary and McCain don’t consider would be the cost to implement a “gas tax holiday”. Gas stations would have to completely change the way they do business. They would have to reprogram all their computers to not include the tax in the price of gasoline and they would have to reprogram whatever computer program they have that sends the gas tax to the government. They will ask the government to pay for this (rightly so) and that will cost millions out of our tax dollars. All for what?
Hillary knows that there is no way that Congress is going to pass a law like this and that there really isn’t time to get one passed before the summer. It’s all smoke and mirrors with Hillary. Just her way of throwing a chicken bone to the “just us folks” crowd that she claims she owns.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am#22 Zimzone Says:
Who’s idea was this first? Oh, wait, it doesn’t matter because you can’t tell the difference between Hillary & McCain anymore.
Truer words could not be spoken.. Maybe McCain will show some bipartisanship and ask Hillary to be his VP?? LOL They seem to get along well and share the same viewpoints.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:45 amHillary — once a AuH20 gal – always a AuH20 gal
May 5th, 2008 at 9:45 amleftright Says:
Obama is a GIMMICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Coming from terrorist trollshit, Obama won’t take that to mean much.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am#24 Kay Says:
I wonder if McSenile is going to ask Hitlary “Obliterating” Clinton to be his running mate?
We are on the same wavelength this morning…
May 5th, 2008 at 9:48 amYou know what bothers me about Bill Clinton these days more than anything else — his cozing up with Bush I.
I think it’s time to put an end to the Bush/Clinton Dynasties.
As much as Obama is not the perfect candidate, least he brings new blood to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:48 amAnd the beat goes on Says
May 5th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Sen. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign claims to have a secret weapon up their sleeve. According to a report Sunday, Clinton’s campaign could force the Democratic National Committee to seat Florida and Michigan, thereby potentially giving her the votes she needs to secure the Democratic nomination.
______________________________________________
Using this “nuclear option” would create a very ugly scene — one that would cripple the Democratic Party.
Hillary would have a difficult time getting around the following:
1) Seating a Florida delegation would be unfair, and it would reward rule-breaking and cheating. Hillary violated a promise to the Democratic Party to do no campaigning in Florida. Obama honored his promise to do no campaigning in Florida. Hillary got her Florida vote by cheating.
2) Obama wasn’t even ON the ballot in Michigan. He pulled his name off the ballot at the request of the Democratic Party — as did all Dem candidates EXCEPT HILLARY. How could they seat an all-Hillary delegation from Michigan when the results are so bogus? Hillary got her Michigan vote by cheating.
3) If Hillary uses her influence to get the Rules and Bylaws committee to change the rules in her favor, she’s cheating.
If Hillary manages to finesse the nomination in this way, she will not only p!ss off large numbers of Democrats, she is going to make the entire party look very ugly to the rest of the country. McCain might as well start thinking about what suit to wear to his inauguration now.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:49 amExcellent analysis, Bilbo. The effects of implementing this are steep, as you’ve pointed out.
Demand? DEMAND? Who the hell was I kidding?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:49 am#36 :
We are on the same wavelength this morning…
Yes! Great minds think alike! LOL!
May 5th, 2008 at 9:51 amI tried twice to post a response to Bilbo, TP. There’s nothing in my comments that would merit moderation.
Fix. Your. Stuff.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:52 amMary, i think this situation is only going to get worse unfortunately. There is also a rise in prostituion because the women there have no other way of making money now that their husbands and sons have been killed in the fighting. It’s sad to even think it, but women and to some degree men also, had much more freedom under Saddam Hussein’s secular dictatorship. There are many Iraqis who wish he were still in charge. Thats how much damage GW and American occupation has done to the country.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:52 am“$0.15: The amount the national average price for regular gasoline rose in the past two weeks, according to a new survey. “The average price of self-serve regular gasoline on Friday was $3.62 a gallon,” up from $3.47 two weeks ago.”
The closer it gets to the presidential elections, the sharper the rise in gas prices. I’m not prone to falling for conspiracy theories, but isn’t this curious?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:52 amMilitants from Hezbollah “have been training Iraqi militia fighters at a camp near Tehran, according to American torturers reports that the United States has supplied to the Iraqi government.” The evidence, which was “provided by four Shiite militia members who were captured in Iraq late last year and tortured separately,” indicates that Iran is attempting to “train the fighters in unobtrusive ways.”
There, required corrections made.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:53 amDieNowForPeace Says:
It’s time to recognize that there is only one progressive candidate in this race.
Yes, but unless your unaware, TP has hitched it’s wagon to the Clinton machine years ago (Podesta a BIG contributor to her campaign.)
And for the life of me I don’t see how their ignoring the Democratic presidential race is helping Hillary in any way. All it is doing is to diminish this site. Can you imagine how many people have come here, looked around, and left once they realized that this site was ignoring the most important news of the day. I know that I am not going to hang around here any longer, other than the Thinkfast thread in the morning, because I am sick to death of McCain posts.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:54 amSummer ‘08 :
War with Iran.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:54 amWar between Obama and Clinton.
And Americans fighting to stay afloat economically.
I distinctly heard Howard Dean say the MI & FL delegates will be seated. Did anyone else hear that?
I suggested that some weeks back. Seat the delegates and allow them to vote.
This is the most fair outcome to a really bad situation. Hillary won’t support it, of course; she’s already claiming the popular vote in both States.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:56 amThanks for clearing that up RUcerious..
Anyone else confused by this use of the word “unobtrusive”
Either they are training fighters and being obstrusive or not training fighters and thus unobtrusive. How can they be training the fighters in unobtrusive ways?
“Here, have the weapons, the training and the maps, but we’re not telling you where to go or what to do..”
P.S Iran is a democratic country where the people are very pro US.. despite all best efforts to make them otherwise.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:58 amZimzone Says:
I distinctly heard Howard Dean say the MI & FL delegates will be seated. Did anyone else hear that?
I suggested that some weeks back. Seat the delegates and allow them to vote.
This is the most fair outcome to a really bad situation. Hillary won’t support it, of course; she’s already claiming the popular vote in both States.
It’s not that simple. There are no assigned delegates in MI and FL. When the delegate count is decided by the votes, then and only then is a human being picked to be the delegate. And who they pick will be whomever they think will be the most loyal to their candidate. So, you can’t just say “seat the delegates” without apportioning the delegates to Clinton and Obama.
I think the fairest way to get FL and MI back into the fold (even though my first choice is to not seat them since seating them will set a very BAD precedent) would be to give Hillary delegates according to the votes she received and give the rest to Obama. Then split MI 50/50. Hillary’s “nuclear” option is to give ALL of MI and FL’s delegates to her. I think even an ardent Hillary supporter would see the gross unfairness in that.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:03 amHillary’s ever increasing evident thirst for power will make me vote Independent in the Fall — if it’s between her and McBomb.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:07 amBilbo ~ good reply. The only way to seat the delegates from either state is to have them bound 50/50, and not just through the first vote, but perhaps also the second. Otherwise, they’ll support Clinton, because that’s how they got their delegate status in the ‘rigged’ elections.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:07 am#46 Zimzone Says:
I distinctly heard Howard Dean say the MI & FL delegates will be seated. Did anyone else hear that?
Dean commits to seat Florida delegates
Democratic party chief Howard Dean this morning stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Florida’s Democratic congressional delegation and said Florida will have a delegation at this summer’s presidential nominating convention.
“We are committed to do everything in our power to seat the Florida delegation,” Dean said on the steps of the Democratic National Committee, where he met with Florida’s nine House Democrats, Sen. Bill Nelson and state party chairwoman Karen Thurman. It was a marked change of tone for Dean, who has repeatedly said Florida would not have a delegation based on its Jan. 29 vote because it broke the rules in having that primary too early.
Florida would have had 211 delegates if the DNC Rules Committee had not penalized the state for early primary and taken away all it’s delegates. Dean did not say whether all of Florida’s delegates will end up being seated or some portion of them.
Zimzone this was in the Orlando Sentinel on April 2nd.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:08 amit’s funny how Florida is always the epicenter of Voting Problems.
hmmmm.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:09 am#46 Zimzone
I distinctly heard Howard Dean say the MI & FL delegates will be seated. Did anyone else hear that?
Here is the YouTube 4/27/08 video with Dean on Meet the Press.
He discusses MI and FL delegates.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uT-a6EembrM
May 5th, 2008 at 10:12 amDo you remember The Thought Crimes Bill?
The Homegrown Terrorist Act of 2007 overwhelming passed the House and is in Congress. Read up on this bit of TERRIFYING but still pending legislation.
Psssst…DO SOMETHING!
May 5th, 2008 at 10:23 amBilbo, RUC,
You’re right about the seating.
Also, I agree that a 50/50 split may be the only fair way to address this.
But, I think the ’supers’ from each of those States should stay home…just say’n.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:30 amNo matter how much Clinton’s tactics are dirty and disturbing, no matter how low she has sunk in her campaign attacks, no matter how disingenuous, outrageous and pandering are her remarks, IF she is able somehow to manipulate the delegates, bend the rules, defy popular opinion, steal if from Obama, and weasel her way into the nomination, I will have to hold my nose and vote for her — voting independent or not voting will only solidify McInsane’s victory and that will mean 4 more years of Bush, 4 more years of war, 4 more years of failed economic policies, 4 more years of failed diplomacy, and worst of all he will select at least one, if not two, supreme court justices.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:35 amWe can’t let that happen - no matter what.
Should Hillary steal this presidency, I don’t know how we will survive another 4 years with a divisive, hated person as president, but as a country, we must. The republicans must not win.
Poor Warren is doing less well….last I heard he was the richest sob around….it would be a terrible thing if he slipped to #2.
May 5th, 2008 at 10:35 amJebus! Y’all are scaring me this morning…:o(
May 5th, 2008 at 11:19 am‘Iraq said on Sunday it has no evidence that Iran was supplying militias engaged in fierce street fighting with security forces in Baghdad.’
snip
‘Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said there was no “hard evidence” of involvement by the neighbouring Shiite government of Iran in backing Shiite militiamen in the embattled country.’
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ afp/ 20080504/ wl_mideast_afp/ iraniraqpoliticsunrest_080504134305
May 5th, 2008 at 11:30 amI got a news flash:
The US is training fighters and sending them into Iraq, Afghanistan, and about 128 other countries around the planet.
May 5th, 2008 at 1:35 pmMilitants from Hezbollah “have been training Iraqi militia fighters at a camp near Tehran, according to American interrogation reports that the United States has supplied to the Iraqi government.” The evidence, which was “provided by four Shiite militia members who were captured in Iraq late last year and questioned separately,” indicates that Iran is attempting to “train the fighters in unobtrusive ways.”
Did they waterboard them? Or render them to Egypt like they did al-Libi?
Curious minds want to know….
Cheers,
May 5th, 2008 at 1:57 pmanymouse19 Says:
Baloney. “Sreamer Dean” is just following the rules - something the whiners in Florida and Michigan should have done.
Tough beans.
May 5th, 2008 at 2:46 pmanymouse19 Says
May 5th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Florida’s votes must be counted. It was the party leaders’ p*ssing match with screamer Dean that led to the “rules violation.” Don’t disenfranchise the voters who had nothing to do with the situation just because Dean couldn’t get control of the situation.
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I would agree with you IF the Florida vote was fairly obtained. I especially agree that this is in no way the fault of the Florida voters, and they deserve to be represented.
However, the Florida vote was NOT fairly obtained, and the results are bogus. Obama and Hillary (as did all Democratic candidates at the time) both promised the Democratic Party to do no campaigning in Florida. Obama honored his promise. Hillary violated hers.
Hillary campaigned in Florida with no competition and easily won the race on a false start. That’s not a win, and shouldn’t be made official in any way. The only way to seat a Florida delegation is to have a FAIR Florida primary election. Ditto for Michigan.
May 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm7. Did the Supreme Court just elect McCain ?
Interesting. And to think Bush doesn’t like “constructionist” judges!
May 5th, 2008 at 4:06 pm“….evidence, which was “provided by four Shiite militia members who were captured ….”"
And were these folks waterboarded before or after their testimony ?
May 5th, 2008 at 4:06 pm>Militants from Hezbollah “have been training Iraqi militia >fighters at a camp near Tehran,
>according to American interrogation reports
oh god TP why are you even wasting your time posting this? some doychebag like Exlax send it to you?
while i wouldnt dispute the possibility of it being accurate, i think it shouldnt be mentioned unless you mention that well…just about EVERY country around there, including our ally saudi arabia, is sending people in to iraq to cause trouble…one would hope you wouldnt waste your time reprinting out of context propaganda from american torturers..
May 5th, 2008 at 4:45 pmThe “whiners” in Florida (as you call Florida’s Democratic party voters) didn’t choose the date for the primary. They only showed up to vote when their party leaders told them to.
The party leaders should not have told them to vote since they knew that the vote wouldn’t count. Anyone with an IQ of better than 70 knew that their vote wouldn’t count in Florida. If they chose to show up and vote anyway, then that’s great. But their VOTE DID NOT COUNT.
Did your mother teach you about rules when you were young? Did she teach you that you should obey some rules but if there are rules you don’t like, it’s OK to break them? If that’s how your mother raised you, you had a lousy mom.
May 5th, 2008 at 8:04 pm