Law Professors: Only Jack Bauer Believes In The ‘Ticking Time Bomb’ Scenario For Torture
Law Professors: Only Jack Bauer Believes In The ‘Ticking Time Bomb’ Scenario For Torture
One of the right wing’s favorite talking points to defend torture is that it could be useful in a so-called “ticking time bomb” scenario. In 2005, for example, a “senior administration official” said President Bush’s signing statement waiving a torture ban was justified because a ”ticking time bomb” could necessitate the need for torture. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia recently endorsed “smacking someone in the face” if he were hiding “the bomb that is about to blow up Los Angeles.”
But in a House Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) asked three jurists who have extensively studied interrogations if they have ever heard of such a scenario. As Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) put it, they responded with “radio silence“:
Marjorie Cohn, President, National Lawyer’s Guild: I know of one. It’s on the show 24. And that’s the only one I know of.
Philippe Sands, University College, London: I know none other, and I’ve never seen the show 24, so I don’t even know of that one.
David Luban, Georgetown University: I have been trying to chase down true ticking time bomb cases for a couple of years. There have been a couple that have been alleged to be ticking time bomb cases. They turned out not to be true.
Watch it:
Luban said that even a “poster child” ticking bomb scenario was bogus. He described a situation where an al Qaeda member was tortured in the Phillippines, eventually confessing about a plot on U.S. airliners and the pope. But Luban said the detainee “broke” under the threat of being turned over to another country — not after torture. “When you have torture as your A option, you don’t look at your B option,” he noted.
Even torture proponents can’t think of a scenario. One of the lawyers in the hearing, David Rivkin, a former Reagan Justice Department official, defended the administration throughout the hearing. But even he couldn’t think of a scenario, saying, “I personally do not have complete proof” of a particular instance.
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But even he couldn’t think of a scenario, saying, “I personally do not have complete proof” of a particular instance.
When has that ever deterred the garbage GOP or their backers ?
May 7th, 2008 at 4:21 pmMy only quibble would be with “the bomb that is about to blow up Los Angeles.”
In view of all the money, water, housing and other problems they have out there, it might be better to let that puppy go off.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:23 pmNot only is the “ticking time bomb” scenario pure fiction, but the idea that smacking someone in the face brings forth the information necessary to stop that bomb only exists on television and the movies as well.
You know — the V-chip exists to protect children from seeing things on television they shouldn’t. Does a similar chip exist for delusional justices and other public officials?
May 7th, 2008 at 4:24 pmIf a magic pony had access to information on a ticking time bomb in Los Angeles…..
May 7th, 2008 at 4:25 pmThe ticking timebomb excuse will still be the fallback position for those believers. It doesn’t matter. Philippe Sands gave many other reasons why torture should not be allowed in the U.S. It creates more enemies, causes conflicts to last longer, and brings our people down. We should be better than that.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:26 pm“I personally do not have complete proof” of a particular instance.
This means that don’t have squat. Sadly, it barely slows them down. This is just another instance of “faith-based” public policy – “All the ideology without the fat, … er … facts!”
It’s time for someone new in the driver’s seat. 2009 can’t come soon enough!
May 7th, 2008 at 4:35 pm“I personally do not have complete proof” of a particular instance.
Wow. Three weasel words in one sentence. It’s not close to a BushCo record, but it is big league.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:35 pmLaw Professors: Only Jack Bauer Believes In The ‘Ticking Time Bomb’ Scenario For Torture
– - This is a blatant lie. I know for a fact this scenario is also espoused by James Bond.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:35 pmYeah, Jack Bauer (a FICTIONAL TV character) and retarded Republicans.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:36 pmBut, but, but Keith Ellison took the oath of office on the Koran!
May 7th, 2008 at 4:37 pmHe obviously hates Amurika and those in charge who are only trying to keep us safe by torturing and suspending civil rights.
Wait a tic — that question was asked by Keith Ellison (D-MN) — He’s a MUSLIM!
(scary organ music)
As Blenn Geck pointed out, he’s obviously working for the terra-ists!
May 7th, 2008 at 4:37 pm“Only Jack Bauer believes in the ‘ticking time bomb’ scenario.’
NOT TRUE! NOT TRUE! NOT TRUE!
Bushitler, 5-deferment Dickhead Cheney, and Scalia believe in it fervently. Besides, they love the entertainment that the torture of prisoners provides.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:44 pmAhem! Ex-CUSE me, Bartolo!! I live in Los Angeles…
Let’s not be so quick with the bombs, OK?? I’d rather we blow up New Jersey. ;o)
May 7th, 2008 at 4:45 pmI’m sure that Wiley Coyote would agree the ticking time bomb is a real deal…
May 7th, 2008 at 4:46 pmLaura Ingraham believes in the “ticking time bomb” too. She said that “24″ was the closest thing to a national referendum on torture that the right-wing would allow. Or something like that.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:47 pmLaw Professors: Only Jack Bauer Believes In The ‘Ticking Time Bomb’ Scenario…
that is absolutely not true, its slanderous…Dr. Evil in Austin Powers 1 held the entire world captive under a ticking time bomb scenario. If its good enough for TV and Hollywood, then it certainly must be applicable to real life.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:49 pm.
I think that instead of “24″, we should emulate “Macgyver” and use our brains and creativity to peacefully find ways out of sticky situations.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:50 pm#17: I think that instead of “24?, we should emulate “Macgyver” and use our brains and creativity to peacefully find ways out of sticky situations.
– - Duct tape for everyone!!
May 7th, 2008 at 4:52 pmThe ticking time bomb scenario can be used to justify anything, including rape and murder. I mean come on, if the swarthy bastard won’t tell you where the bomb is after four hours of waterboarding you would rape his wife and kids and kill them in front of him wouldn’t you?
Where’s the bright line between torture and murder if you are going to save LA?
I say let them learn to swim, see you down in Arizona Bay.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:00 pmL. Hussein Annie Says:
Ahem! Ex-CUSE me, Bartolo!! I live in Los Angeles…
May 7th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
______
Hey, that’s the breaks. Shoulda thought of that before y’all greenlighted a Harold and Kumar sequel. Seriously.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:05 pmI could be considered a pacifist in most situations, but I could potentially be okay if certain kinds of torture were used, illegally, to save lives in an actual “ticking time bomb scenario” involving innocent civilians.
Before you send me off to trollville, hear me out…
The problem I do have is that every interrogation under War on Terror seems to be treated as such a scenario, right down to any old cab driver being picked up and imprisoned for abitrary reasons.
You obviously have to draw the line somewhere and the line is with the law. Break it to save lives, suffer the consequences and hope that a jury finds sympathy, as they most likely will, if it were an actual “ticking time bomb scenario”.
Torture is illegal and should remain so and has remained so for so long that it’s only possible under this renegade Administration that we’re even having this discussion.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:21 pmJust once, I wish one of these professors had just said that the “ticking time bomb” scenario is the STUPIDEST thing they ever heard of.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:25 pmI can’t believe that there are people who actually confuse reality with a TV show.
Would torture get the same results like it did in 24?
I can just see it, the bomb is ticking, in less than 24 hrs it’s gonna nuke the bejeezus out of one of our large cities (pick the city you hate the most). Our Keystone CIA and FBI have one of the terrorist in custody. They torture him and lo and behold he doesn’t spill the beans (as any self-respecting terrorist would do).
And why should he squeal? These guys are willing to blow themselves up, you think torture is gonna soften them up? And who is to say they wouldn’t just name any old place where the bomb is? If they did that how long would it take before the G-men realize they are on a wild goose chase?
Exactly J. If there truly were a ticking time bomb scenario, any rational person would do everything possible to get the information and be justified doing it. And a jury would be lenient.
It’s easy to dream up scenarios in your head that justify torture. Or rape. Or murder.
Torture is still illegal and should be.
Would the torture apologists be ok with killing a man’s wife in front of him to get him to talk and save a city? If not why not?
May 7th, 2008 at 5:30 pmThe Argument Against Torture — From a Seasoned Interrogator
May 7th, 2008 at 5:36 pmIn my mind, this scenario is bogus. It has been presented as a justification to create legality where it does not exist.
This is not really a legal or ethical problem This is emotional problem and nothing more. That is why this whole “torture” thing can not and should not be discussed with the neocons and all their enablers. It is just a less than stupid neocon talking point. There is nothing at all to discuss.
Torture is simply wrong. Ethically, morally and legally, not to mention humanistically. Period.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:46 pmGeez, Bartolo – don’t go blaming Harold & Kumar on ME!!
That’s just …wrong. :O/
May 7th, 2008 at 5:47 pmMerlin Says:
Torture is simply wrong. Ethically, morally and legally, not to mention humanistically. Period.
What Merlin said.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pmTicking time bomb? We need to torture. Voter fraud? Gotta have a poll tax, er I mean, a voter ID.
Solution to fictions?
When are we going to start Impeachment against Scalia, Alito, Roberts and Thomas for lying to congress during their confirmations and for conflicts of interest?
I would also think hearings at the Hague are in order for those jurists; and also the Executive Branck from GW through Cheney and Libby and Addington and Yoo and Meiers and Ashcroft and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and Perle and Rove and Feith and Wurmser and Abrams, down to undersecretaries of undersecretaries.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:10 pmIMHO: Torture is disgusting and morally abhorrent; those who torture are disgusting and morally abhorrent; those who advocate torture are repellent and morally abhorrent; and lawyers who would justify torture are morally abhorrent.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:37 pmAnd, in addition to what has been said about torture, what do you think would happen even if there was a ticking time bomb somewhere and it would explode? (Assuming it was a nuclear device).
It would put all the nations in the world into high alert and unite all the efforts to catch the terrorists who used the weapon. Most terrorist groups would lose their base as well. Not a sensible tactic and even if we do not always fathom the reasoning behind terrorist activities, I do believe they have objectives. And one of them is to survive as a group.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:13 pmThe show “24″ and the character “Jack Bauer” use the “ticking time bomb” scenario as a plot mechanic to fill the 24 hours the show is supposed to represent with tension, action, etc. because each season is supposedly the “worst 24 hours imaginable”. This is added, in-part for ratings since the show is more James Bond than Law & Order. Now the show isn’t any different from other authors, directors, etc. who have played this card before as the “ticking clock” in their works. But it is all fiction and to try to use it as a point of emphasis for use in the real world is to not know the ramifications of the actual use of the real applications of cruelty and torture. To not know that an actor doesn’t get hurt and that a prisoner of our government does, that is a classic case of blurred boundaries and outright ignorance.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:52 pm“Jury Nullification”…..I suggest Scalia look it up… its an incredibly fundamental concept of american law that he apparently forgot about…Ticking Time Bombs are complete red herrings, basically they want to put forth these scenarious so they can order torture at the drop of a hat and not be held accountable for it or charged with criminal conspiracy by a later administration..also, the legal defense of “necessity” would probably be available in most jurisdictions unless the torture resulted in death..
May 7th, 2008 at 8:00 pmThe “ticking time bomb” scenario as justification for hostile interrogation using torture has been bandied around the law enforcement community since at least 1971.
That is when the movie “Dirty Harry” featured the progenitor of Jack Bauer abusing a “bad guy” who had buried a teenage girl alive.
Time was of the essence because the girl had a limited amount of air, and so our hero did what he thought to be appropriate under the circumstances. He stood on the detained villain’s wounded leg to try to persuade the dude to talk.
Since then, cops have spent endless hours conjecturing about what they would do under similar constraints of time.
The Bush Administration’s “ticking time bomb” fantasies can almost certainly be directly traced to their recollection of the Clint Eastwood movie, since no similar real-life cases of this type are known to have occurred.
May 7th, 2008 at 8:01 pmI would just like to mention if Jack Bauer was torturing Rambo.
Rambo won’t break and jack may not leave the show with his life………….
May 8th, 2008 at 2:14 amRobt Says:
I would just like to mention if Jack Bauer was torturing Rambo.
Rambo won’t break and jack may not leave the show with his life………….
May 8th, 2008 at 2:14 am Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
I’ll love to watch the scene of Jack Bauer torturing Harry Tasker (Arnold Schwarzenegger in True Lies).
May 8th, 2008 at 11:26 am