McCain’s other pastor problem: Rod Parsley.
Filed Under: Radical Right
By on May 8th, 2008 at 11:39 am
McCain’s other pastor problem: Rod Parsley.
Mother Jones reports that conservative televangelist Rod Parsley has delivered hate-filled sermons calling Islam “the greatest religious enemy of our civilization and the world.” The historic mission of America was to see “this false religion destroyed,” he added. At a public event in March, John McCain embraced Parsley’s endorsement of him and hailed the preacher as “one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide.” Watch this video highlighting the McCain and Parsley relationship:
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Rod Parsley — is that his real name? Funny…
May 8th, 2008 at 11:40 amMcNumbNuts is going to get creamed in the general election campaign. I sure hope he is enjoying the honeymoon that he’s on right now because it will be ending soon. Then we’ll see just how much trouble his well-known temper will get him into.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:45 amhttp://www.rodparsley.com/ ????
Seems more like Robert Tilton (asks for money FIRST!)
May 8th, 2008 at 11:46 amAnd why isn’t this going viral on YouTube? Doesn’t any video exist of this?
Or is it because there are too many people in this country who agree with Parsley’s brand of bigotry?
May 8th, 2008 at 11:47 amHe’s related to Shaft Oregano.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:47 amHmmmm… just because McCain asks for their endorsement doesn’t mean that he believes or supports what they say… isn’t that the definition of pandering?
May 8th, 2008 at 11:48 amGee, what do you think it will take for the networks to run this over and over and over again?
Not gonna happen, so we have to push it. Make this go viral, promote it, Digg it, stumble it, send letters to the editor, whatever you have to do. Make it so the media cannot ignore it.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:50 amHe’s related to Shaft Oregano.
I thought it was Dick Cumin?
May 8th, 2008 at 11:52 amYes they can….especially if he deals with Mc100yearwar. This McCain Stream Media has given him break after break after break. The McCain Stream Media knows if they dare cover Mc100yearwar poorly that the backlash will be immense from the hate radio crowd and 28%ers.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:52 amMy friends, the Pander Bear is just having some religious fun.
You know - hate, greed, ostracizing, blame, fear, racism; all that religious ‘fun stuff’.
The Religious Wrong are trying to destroy America!
May 8th, 2008 at 11:53 amI guess he called em how he saw em!!! I see nothing but love in these words!
Those that make war against Allah and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land. They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter: except those that repent before you reduce them. For you must know that Allah is forgiving and merciful. 5:33-34
You have a good example in Abraham and those who followed him. They said to their people: ‘We disown you and the idols which you worship besides Allah. We renounce you: enmity and hate shall reign between us until you believe in Allah only.”…. Sura 60:4
2:193- “Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah”
9:123: “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”
May 8th, 2008 at 11:53 amUh oh, more poor vetting by McCainCo. Ironic they can’t vet people since their own candidate relies so heavily upon his Vet background.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:56 am#1 of 20 questions John McCain will never be asked:
1. Do you agree with Pastor John Hagee that war with Iran is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy?
May 8th, 2008 at 11:57 amIn February, you shared a stage with Pastor John Hagee and said you were “very proud” to have his endorsement. You also called the Reverend Rod Parsley, a man who said of Islam “America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed”, your “spiritual guide.” Do you believe America’s mission is to destroy Islam? Do you join Pastor Hagee in believing the United States must attack Iran to fulfill the biblical prophecy of Armageddon in Israel in which 144,000 Jews will be converted to Christianity and the rest killed? Is that why you joked about “bomb bomb Iran?” If not, why will you not renounce the support of Hagee and Parsley?
Badmoodman Says:Uh oh, more poor vetting by McCainCo. Ironic they can’t vet people since their own candidate relies so heavily upon his Vet background.
Word is Cindy McParsley get her drugs from a Vet…
May 8th, 2008 at 11:58 amof course, this Vet also treats cows, horses, dogs, cats…
No shortage of Troll aliases today.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:04 pmAnd if it is true, why didn’t I hear about it on the news last night ?
And can I safely assume that youtube will provide all sorts of clips of McCain for political commericials in the next 6 months ?? Hope, Hope, Hope
May 8th, 2008 at 12:08 pmGive us this day our daily drivel.
Thankyou, landpig
May 8th, 2008 at 12:10 pmceltic cynic Says:
just stating facts! you don’t like the truth?
May 8th, 2008 at 12:15 pmThe Old Testament makes the Koran look like a lovefest, eh landpig?
May 8th, 2008 at 12:17 pmThe Old Testament makes the Koran look like a lovefest, eh landpig?
That’s why I prefer Taoism.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:19 pmZimzone Says:
show your proof!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:20 pmAre you going to Scarborough Fair?
May 8th, 2008 at 12:21 pmParsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme.
landpig Says:
I guess he called em how he saw em!!! I see nothing but love in these words!
May 8th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Thanks landpig! Here are some more love-filled out-of-context scriptural quotes to add to your collection:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:23 pmAhhh well, as long as he’s not critical of the rich whites of America, who cares?
/extreme snark!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:25 pmRod Parsley tries to frighten his followers:
This is about to freak you out…. Since September 11, 2001, 34,000 Americans have become Muslims….This means that thousands of Americans have embraced the very religion that inspired the worst assault upon their nation in a generation. Did you know that there are some 1209 mosques in America? Twenty-five percent of which have been built since 1994. Did you know that there are nearly a billion and a half Muslims in the world….But how would you know it? After all, it’s not in People magazine.
Parsley pretty much hates everyone from abortionists, civil libertarians, to the entertainment industry and last but not least people that are gay. Parsley and Hagee make a great match. They both spew more about hate than they do, love they neighbor. Whatever happened to an all merciful god? He is only merciful and benevolent if you aren’t gay?
MSM should be all over this. Makes you wonder why John McCain wants their endorsements? Does he believe they will deliver the religious conservative voter? If that is what it takes, then America is in worse shape morally than I suspected.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:25 pmThose quotes from the bible and the Koran sound eerily similar. You would almost think that the Judeo-Christian God and Islam’s Allah were one and the same god.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pmYou guys had better stop pointing out the hypocracy of McSame’s “spiritual advisers.”
May 8th, 2008 at 12:33 pmYou’ll piss the old coot off.
shoeless Says:
Those quotes from the bible and the Koran sound eerily similar. You would almost think that the Judeo-Christian God and Islam’s Allah were one and the same god.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
You’d think that, wouldn’t ya?
May 8th, 2008 at 12:33 pmSo we all agree that Rev Jeremiah Wright, Hagee, Rod Parsley, Obama, & McCain believe the same thing!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pmAll three of the ‘major’ religions go back to Abraham, that bloodthirsty sob who was going to kill his only child because he heard voices in his head.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pmCurious how the oriental philosophies ask one to turn inward for their spiritual awakening, then turn outward to practice it.
Poor, deluded earthswine, trying to bait us, but has only an empty hook.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pmlandpig Says:
So we all agree that Rev Jeremiah Wright, Hagee, Rod Parsley, Obama, & McCain believe the same thing!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Well, no. Hagee, Parsley, and McCain are not liberation theologans by any stretch of the imagination. And Obama, well, he’s doing what he has to do.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:36 pmlandpig Says:
So we all agree that Rev Jeremiah Wright, Hagee, Rod Parsley, Obama, & McCain believe the same thing!
I don’t know about that, but did you know that you and Osama bin Laden worship the same God.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:38 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
No Obama is a Marxist!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:42 pmshoeless Says:
I don’t know about that, but did you know that you and Osama bin Laden worship the same God.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
_____
Yeah - the false one who makes them think that conflict and violence against innocent people is justified by religious righteousness.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:43 pmRUCerious Says:
All three of the ‘major’ religions go back to Abraham, that bloodthirsty sob who was going to kill his only child because he heard voices in his head.
Instead, he ran down to the village and said “Hey everybody, God said we should all cut our foreskins off and we’ll be his chosen people.”
And they did it.
Yeah, Chalk me up for Taoism, too, DieNowForPeace.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:43 pmlandpig Says:
hussein toasterhead Says:
No Obama is a Marxist!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
______
Yes, so am I, and so are many of us here. Groucho and Harpo were WAY ahead of their time.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:44 pmlandpig aka leftright aka africanmexican = illiterate troll
May 8th, 2008 at 12:46 pmAs long as Johnny has these guys backing him all the way to November we will get the White House back.This really shows how out of touch Johnny is with the rest of America.He forgets that this country is all done with the hatred that the REICH represents and the people that Johnny has on his team. He is old and way out there.People are tired of this hatred and bigotry and we will have a change.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:49 pmPasturd Parsely ~ Look! Brown People! Stone ‘Em!
May 8th, 2008 at 1:06 pmlandpig Says:
No Obama is a Marxist!
I didn’t know that. I wonder why he was fighting the Marxist Russians in Afghanistan?
May 8th, 2008 at 1:12 pmi find it interesting that the troll who can’t spell good pulls a passage from the Koran that quotes Abraham in an attempt to prove how bloodthirsty them eeevil Mooslems are.
Quotes Abraham.
Abraham. Wasn’t he big in judaism at one time?
May 8th, 2008 at 1:15 pmchristopher wiwi Says:
As long as Johnny has these guys backing him all the way to November we will get the White House back.This really shows how out of touch Johnny is with the rest of America.He forgets that this country is all done with the hatred that the REICH represents and the people that Johnny has on his team. He is old and way out there.People are tired of this hatred and bigotry and we will have a change.
I wish you were correct but I am not sure you are. As a conservative agnostic pagan Taoist, I am embarassed by just how much religious bigotry sells on the Right. Highly primitive.
That said, there is a kernel of truth to these statements by the Crazy Pastor Parsley. We can all agree all three Western Religions and their scriptures can be twisted to justify all sorts of atrocities. But today, 2008, the religion that is most often so twisted and on the most pervasive scale is clearly Islam.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:20 pmPlease don’t feed the trolls.
Anyway, it would be good to amass and review some material on Rod Parsley.
Here’s a google search on “televangelist Rod Parsley”
Here’s a PFAW Right Wing Watch page on Parsely going off on hating hays and lesbians; openly calling for violence and taking up weapons; attacking planned parenthood.
From PFAW, Parsley’s “Patriot Pastors” “who will turn their churches into get-out-the-vote campaigns”
Someone needs to make and distribute a DVD of outrageous clips for the networks. Bring McCain’s allies out into the light of day.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:22 pmWant the truth? http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com . There are a lot of questions to be answered. One problem, No one is willing to answer the questions. What does that tell us? Watch and you will change your attitude. WATCH LOOK LEARN and QUESTION is the new monta for this generation.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:28 pmHOLT CAVEAT, BATMAN!!
IF you believe Bush went into Iraq and Afghanistan for religious reasons, then I retract my assessment at 44. I just don’t happen to think Bush’s Christianity was what got us into Iraq.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:28 pmKeltoi Says:
But today, 2008, the religion that is most often so twisted and on the most pervasive scale is clearly Islam.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Are you familiar with the concept of aspect dominance?
May 8th, 2008 at 1:30 pmI’m with ya there, K.
I don’t know exactly what was behind it (besides PNAC, of course) but it sure wasn’t Christianity.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:32 pmKeltoi Says:
IF you believe Bush went into Iraq and Afghanistan for religious reasons, then I retract my assessment at 44. I just don’t happen to think Bush’s Christianity was what got us into Iraq.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
_____
By the same token, we really need to look more closely at the conflicts involving Muslims and separate the ones that are actually religious from the ones that are economic, ethnic, separatist, anticolonial, or opportunist in nature. That’s going to change the metric a bit.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pmKeltoi Says:
I just don’t happen to think Bush’s Christianity was what got us into Iraq
It was Bush’s greed, stupidity, and dishonesty that got us into Iraq.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:36 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
Are you familiar with the concept of aspect dominance?
No, pray enlighten me.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:37 pmWill we ever know why Bush invaded Iraq? Lot of competing theories but no clear winner.
I don’t think Bush’s Christianity is the sole reason he steered our ship into those reefs, but it was a contributing factor. He even admitted that Jesus told him to smite the brown bastards. (Maybe not a direct quote, but close.)
That was before his handlers told him ixnay on the God talk.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:46 pmKeltoi Says:
No, pray enlighten me.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Aspect dominance is an ecological term that can be applied to social and economic sciences with quite interesting results. The basic gist is that human nature compels us to believe that the species that catches our eye is naturally the dominant species in an ecology. In ecological terms, observers will naturally assume that the bright and pretty daisies are the dominant species in a garden, even though there are three times as many fern plants in the garden. In economic terms, the presence of a handful of high-profile maritime-themed establishments in coastal communities will naturally make people believe that fishing is their community’s top industry, even if the fishing industry is being pushed out by tourism.
I believe this is extremely applicable to our conceptions of religions and extremism. Because the extreme elements are so bold and attract so much attention, it is natural to ignore the vast non-extremist majority in any faith. Or political ideology.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:52 pmWow! Toasty, that was deep. And spot on. Nicely put.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:00 pmGotta wonder if we could get Daryll’s pastor Jennings to endorse McIIIrd?
May 8th, 2008 at 2:05 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
I believe this is extremely applicable to our conceptions of religions and extremism. Because the extreme elements are so bold and attract so much attention, it is natural to ignore the vast non-extremist majority in any faith. Or political ideology.
Makes sense as far as it goes…if what you are saying is that Murdering Muslims are more flashy than Murdering Christians in their methodology (suicide bombing) I could go there.
However, if you were to compare the percent of Christians and Muslims who think killing non-believers is good, I think you’d have to admit Islam is way ahead. I also do not find an equivalent to Jihad in Christianity’s organic teachings.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:12 pmThanks for that link, HT.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:13 pmTheology is fun, but I must reiterate I am not a Christian, this is a purely sociological exercise for me.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:13 pmWell, he is a representative of the republican party of hate and bigotry. Let’s ask him -
Gramps McSame - My friends, back in the day Muslin nearly destroyed the world, with all that cotton, the world became off balanced and caused the seas to rise, and that caused all the pumpkins to swell to tremendous sizes, and that held up the trains, it was a mess, I tell you.
Nice, gramps, that made a whole lot of sense, nappy time.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:28 pm.
Because it’s not being a Good Loyal(R) Christian until you hate properly…
.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:29 pmRUCerious Says:
Pasturd Parsely ~ Look! Brown People! Stone ‘Em!
specialistf~ Look People! Let’s get STONED! ;)
May 8th, 2008 at 2:29 pmKeltoi Says:
——————————————————————————–
hussein toasterhead Says:
I believe this is extremely applicable to our conceptions of religions and extremism. Because the extreme elements are so bold and attract so much attention, it is natural to ignore the vast non-extremist majority in any faith. Or political ideology.
However, if you were to compare the percent of Christians and Muslims who think killing non-believers is good, I think you’d have to admit Islam is way ahead. I also do not find an equivalent to Jihad in Christianity’s organic teachings.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Reality would disagree with you, as would the Qu’ran, which has no equivalent to Jihad either.
When Americans were asked this question:
They responded thusly:
When American Muslims were asked the almost identical question in a different survey:
They answered this way:
Furthermore, in a similar survey conducted outside the US, majorities of Muslims in most other countries also felt that violence in defense of Islam was NEVER justified. Only Egyptians, Nigerians, and Jordanians scored lower than Americans on the “never justified” question.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:33 pmKeltoi Says:
Makes sense as far as it goes…if what you are saying is that Murdering Muslims are more flashy than Murdering Christians in their methodology (suicide bombing) I could go there.
Gee, what could be more flashy than “Shock and Awe”?
May 8th, 2008 at 2:57 pmThe study was conducted in partnership with Search for Common Ground with support from the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the United States Institute of Peace, the Carnegie Corporation (US polling only), and the Open Society Institute.
I assume you offer this poll in good faith. I also assume you will agree it is possible for polls to be manipulated to achieve a pre-determined outcome. Forgive me if the authors of this poll read - to me - like a Rogue’s Gallery of liberal bias, particularly the OSI. In other words, I do not necessarily accept this data as an inviolate metric of
“reality”.
As to the Koran not having the concept of Jihad in it, I have heard Muslim theologians vehemently debate the point. SOME Muslims believe it is in there. I would be going in over my head to say whether it was so or not. I know you are better versed in things Arabic than I, but it is at least my impression that there is debate within the faith significant enough that it isn’t a fringe view.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:09 pmMcCain has been getting a pass from the media on these guys. Please contact the national media, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, and complain about the “Free Pass” they are giving McSame.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:17 pmJohn McBushcane is a flip flopper. He’s also a female lobbyist chasing dog. Come on now, you mean to tell me he flew on a private jet with “That Chic” and didn’t even get anything other than conversation? If that’s what happened, then maybe we need to start calling him “Limp Johnny”.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:19 pmKeltoi Says:
I assume you offer this poll in good faith. I also assume you will agree it is possible for polls to be manipulated to achieve a pre-determined outcome. Forgive me if the authors of this poll read - to me - like a Rogue’s Gallery of liberal bias, particularly the OSI. In other words, I do not necessarily accept this data as an inviolate metric of
“reality”.
Fair enough. I invite you to find me a survey by an organization you deem more neutral that shows that Muslims are more likely then Christians to support violence for religious reasons.
As to the Koran not having the concept of Jihad in it, I have heard Muslim theologians vehemently debate the point. SOME Muslims believe it is in there. I would be going in over my head to say whether it was so or not. I know you are better versed in things Arabic than I, but it is at least my impression that there is debate within the faith significant enough that it isn’t a fringe view.
It depends on how you define “jihad,” of course. The literal definition of the word is “struggle,” and the Qu’ran has references to struggling against injustice and outside attackers and whatnot. It can also refer to an inner struggle, to purify or better oneself - struggling to quit smoking is a type of jihad.
The “holy war” definition, however, is not found in the Qu’ran. It is a product of Crusader propaganda that has come into common usage, but is not a fundamental tenet of the religion. The fact that current Muslim scholars debate it is not necessarily proof of its existence - just further proof that people can bend scripture to justify any agenda they like.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:26 pmshoeless Says:
Keltoi Says:
Makes sense as far as it goes…if what you are saying is that Murdering Muslims are more flashy than Murdering Christians in their methodology (suicide bombing) I could go there.
Gee, what could be more flashy than “Shock and Awe”?
Not much! But I highly doubt the ordinance officers aboard the Aegis cruisers were screaming “Blood and Souls for the Redeemer!”, wheras “Allahu Akbar!” is the prefered final words of your garden variety Jihadi.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:46 pmHey noliesplease #46.
Watched the movie at your link “Want the truth? http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com “.
Very powerful. Unfortunately, it seems so beyond the pale of how we think, that people tend to dismiss such things as conspiracy theory. However, if you educate yourself with world and US history, one will see the repition of certain things.
All should watch, and then make up tour minds.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:08 pmWhat difference does it make whether they were screaming anything when they delivered their massive ordinance? All those innocent Iraqis killed by “Shock and Awe” are just as dead.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:10 pmshoeless Says:
What difference does it make whether they were screaming anything when they delivered their massive ordinance? All those innocent Iraqis killed by “Shock and Awe” are just as dead.
The point of this particular debate is whether the killing is done in the name of religion or not.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:15 pmKeltoi Says:
Not much! But I highly doubt the ordinance officers aboard the Aegis cruisers were screaming “Blood and Souls for the Redeemer!”, wheras “Allahu Akbar!” is the prefered final words of your garden variety Jihadi.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
May 8th, 2008 at 4:35 pm—–
And how exactly does screaming “God is great” make an act of violence religiously motivated? In Arab culture, and by extension many other Muslim cultures, phrases such as “praise be to God” and “God willing” are used like punctuation, even by secular individuals. The fact that your stereotyped “garden variety Jihadi,” might indeed use such a phrase does not mean that the motivation for his/her actions are religious - they could be motivated by self-defense, vengeance, money, power, or plenty of other factors.
So, it’s not the murder of innocent people that bothers you, it’s the motive and the method of killing them. If a suicide bomber kills innocent children because of a misguided religious belief, that’s bad. If you fire cruise missiles from miles away, and never have to see the innocent children you are murdering for political and economic reasons, that’s fine.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:38 pmNot much! But I highly doubt the ordinance officers aboard the Aegis cruisers were screaming “Blood and Souls for the Redeemer!”, wheras “Allahu Akbar!” is the prefered final words of your garden variety Jihadi.
But you can bet dollars to donuts, the air force pilots were - or didn’t you hear about the hyper-christian US air force?
May 8th, 2008 at 4:39 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi Says:
Not much! But I highly doubt the ordinance officers aboard the Aegis cruisers were screaming “Blood and Souls for the Redeemer!”, wheras “Allahu Akbar!” is the prefered final words of your garden variety Jihadi.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
—–
And how exactly does screaming “God is great” make an act of violence religiously motivated? In Arab culture, and by extension many other Muslim cultures, phrases such as “praise be to God” and “God willing” are used like punctuation, even by secular individuals. The fact that your stereotyped “garden variety Jihadi,” might indeed use such a phrase does not mean that the motivation for his/her actions are religious - they could be motivated by self-defense, vengeance, money, power, or plenty of other factors.
Well, yeah, they could, but don’t you think you are putting too fine a point on this, Toast? The original debate was actually about whether this guys association with McCain would hurt McCain; you are not going to be able to get 90% of Americans to look at this issue and go “yeah, actually, yelling God is Great while detonating yourself is a cultural thing that doesn’t really reflect a religious belief.”
Or to put it another way - and this is just a political assessment, not a moral or ethical one - if you have one preacher saying “America must fight the false religion of Islam” and another saying “God Damn America”, which is going to be more problematic with the electorate?
We got off on a theological tangent, but the original object was the political aspect.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:06 pm——————————————————————————–
shoeless Says:
So, it’s not the murder of innocent people that bothers you, it’s the motive and the method of killing them. If a suicide bomber kills innocent children because of a misguided religious belief, that’s bad. If you fire cruise missiles from miles away, and never have to see the innocent children you are murdering for political and economic reasons, that’s fine.
No, jeez, I never said that and I would think I have at least enough time on this blog for you to know that is not how I think.
BUT - a suicide bomber targets the innocent. A bombadier does not. If we used the tactics of our enemies there would be radioactive craters pock marking the Sunni triangle.
Dead is still dead so in the end it doesn’t matter, but I do draw a huge ethical divide between a suicide bomber and a bomber pilot. Intention matters to the morality of the act.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:10 pmbarfly Says:
——————————————————————————–
Not much! But I highly doubt the ordinance officers aboard the Aegis cruisers were screaming “Blood and Souls for the Redeemer!”, wheras “Allahu Akbar!” is the prefered final words of your garden variety Jihadi.
But you can bet dollars to donuts, the air force pilots were - or didn’t you hear about the hyper-christian US air force?
I did - but didn’t the general behind that get disciplined? Can you imagine AQ discipling one of its leaders for being too religious in his indoctrination?
May 8th, 2008 at 5:11 pmKeltoi Says:
Well, yeah, they could, but don’t you think you are putting too fine a point on this, Toast?
Never. This is a complex world in which we live, and I don’t believe there is such a thing as “too fine a point” in understanding the nature and motivation of conflicts that have a daily cost in human lives.
Or to put it another way - and this is just a political assessment, not a moral or ethical one - if you have one preacher saying “America must fight the false religion of Islam” and another saying “God Damn America”, which is going to be more problematic with the electorate?
According to the polls I’ve seen, about the electorate is more concerned by McCain’s relationship with Hagee than Obama’s relationship with Wright. It all depends on which segment of the population you poll.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:17 pmKeltoi Says:
Dead is still dead so in the end it doesn’t matter, but I do draw a huge ethical divide between a suicide bomber and a bomber pilot. Intention matters to the morality of the act.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
The intention in both cases is to kill the enemy. The only difference is that the bomber pilot survives the attack.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:19 pmThank God that Think Progress Watch is on this one. Still the same old “no comments” comment. Can’t somebody show some pity on that sorryass TPW and humor it with a comment? So much work that absolutely no one gives a shit about all going to waste. Please help!
May 8th, 2008 at 5:21 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
The intention in both cases is to kill the enemy. The only difference is that the bomber pilot survives the attack.
Not quite. The bomber pilot is targeting people with weapons. The sucide bomber is targeting people with groceries.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:21 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
According to the polls I’ve seen, about the electorate is more concerned by McCain’s relationship with Hagee than Obama’s relationship with Wright. It all depends on which segment of the population you poll.
True the last part. As to the first, time will tell.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:23 pmTime is up for me, thanks for an enjoyable debate, Toasterhead.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:25 pmSame here, K
May 8th, 2008 at 5:49 pminstead of an election we should have a reverend wright vs pat robertson cage match.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:31 amunfortunately, i think most americans (ie the low info voters) aren’t really interested in whether a pastor tied to a presidential candidate is spewing hate-filled rhetoric, until it’s determined what the hate-filled rhetoric concerns:
hate-filled rhetoric against islam (or catholicism, even) = anything from “who cares” to “damn straight”
hate-filled rhetoric against america or white america = BAD BAD thing
these aren’t my views, they are the reality of our degraded society. and it’s why this mccain/pastor issue will never get any traction. until you can pull out someone connected to mccain that says something as inflammatory to mom, baseball and apple pie (though caricatured and out of context) as rev. wright has said, the press will never care.
the outrage doesn’t come until white, protestant america is the perceived victim. because that’s the wholesome 1950’s image the traditional media and many americans still want to have of this country.
May 9th, 2008 at 8:59 am