Telecoms provide immunity proposals to lawmakers.
By on May 8th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Telecoms provide immunity proposals to lawmakers.
Politico reports that telecom companies have “presented congressional Democrats with a set of proposals on how to provide immunity to the businesses that participated in a controversial government electronic surveillance program.” House leaders have not yet accepted the companies’ proposals, and many lawmakers are still insisting that the telecoms be held responsible for participating in the administration’s wiretapping program.
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Can you hear me now?…. NO!!!</em>
May 8th, 2008 at 11:31 amIf the telecoms did nothing illegal, then why are they asking for immunity?
That is the basic question that I’ve yet to hear answered to my satisfaction.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:32 amThey only broke the law because they were promised protection from Shrub!
Therefore, the buck stopped at Dumbya’s desk. Period.
Hang the treasonous bastards, stop the tiddly-wink, charade bullshit already CONGRESS.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:34 amThis is like letting criminals decide their sentence.
What raynman just said…
Oh, and how about the fact you were spying prior to 9/11?
Their’s that…
May 8th, 2008 at 11:34 amthis is the biggest scam goin right now.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:39 amNo immunity for lawbreakers!!!
If they broke the law they and Bush need to be held accountable.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:40 amThe lawlessness of this administration must be stopped and prosecuted, not excused.
Follow the spiral:
Telecoms spy for Bush.
Bush promises “immunity”.
Bush argues National Security.
National Security requires laws, and abiding by those laws.
Wiretapping is legal, when done in accordance with FISA (laws).
Circumventing FISA does NOT benefit National Security (lawlessness begets lawlessness).
Bush is circumventing National Security, FOR WHAT?????
Ask KKKarl Rove.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:40 amI don’t want to pillage the telecoms. I do want them to be held accountable to acting illegally.
Really, my biggest complaint is that all the immunity packages put forth to “protect” the telecom industry really is just a facade that protects the bush43 regime. They all would stop all the lawsuits and Congressional investigations into the Administrations raping of our Constitutional rights and liberties.
It’s important that ALL people, not just Americans know that this Administration asked for the wiretaps to begin in the spring of 2001, six months before 9/11, and that their actions amount to totalitarianism.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:41 amIt’s BushCo that is actually behind the push for telecom immunity, and are they pushing hard with both fists. Reason- court cases allowed to go forward against any telecoms will expose BushCo gross malfeasance re: what they’ve been wiretapping all this time, & who.
It’ll be hard to argue that a lot of that wiretapping, reading emails, texts, etc. was for anti-terrorism/national security purposes once it hits the light of day in a courtroom.
THAT’S what the desperate push for telecom immunity before BushCo leaves office is really all about.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:41 amI’d actually be fine with giving them immunity with FULL DISCLOSURE.
That’s how immunity usually works: Tell us what we want to know, all of it, and we’ll give you a deal.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:42 amThe telecoms have written their own immunity proposals?
Don’t be ridiculous…
May 8th, 2008 at 11:42 amI think I’ll submit a proposal to my phone company laying out the new payment plan I’ve decided on. I’ll call it “Never”. They’ll be ok with it, right?
May 8th, 2008 at 11:43 amThe only immunity proposal our elected officials should pay the slightest attention to would be one where the telecoms offer to sing like canaries. If they can serve up those who asked them to do this, what exactly they were asked to do, when they were asked to it, as well as what intimidation or pressuring took place, perhaps immunity wouldn’t be so bad. At least it would keep them from taking the fifth.
The only reason we really want to see lawsuit trials is to find out this information, after all. Any second year law student could probably get a telecom exonerated if he could show they were strong-armed by the government. The only reason to have a trial is to show the slime under the rock, which the White House wants so desperately to hide. If we can get the telecoms to deliver the slime in exchange for immunity, that might be an efficient deal.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:44 am.
Fine example of American Corpratism… NO?
.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:45 amCall your Senators and Representative and tell them no immunity and that you are watching! They must start doing their jobs or we must replace them!
May 8th, 2008 at 11:45 amdeebaser, agreed & great point.
FULL DISCLOSURE NOW!
By the way, can we spy on the telecoms?
These are another entity that should be Nationalized.
When Americans spy on Americans we will have no Americans
May 8th, 2008 at 11:47 amLibVot,
Done, just be sure to stress that you’ll be actively campaign against him/her in the next election. Seems the only thing to grab their attention.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:49 amDieNowForPeace: Thanks, and good advice – will do.
Pax
May 8th, 2008 at 11:50 am#16- Absolutely. You might think they don’t care if you call, but each call or fax from a voter is noted by their offices, pro & con. And it’s an election year for a lot of ‘em.
Phone & fax #s are readily available online. I even call districts & states where I previously lived & tell ‘em my friends & relatives who vote there are of the same mind. Gets their attention.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:52 amHow about someone publishes the telecom’s proposals. They seem to be the sort of thing that the public has a right to see. I can’t think of a compelling reason that they should be kept from public scrutiny.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:54 amNO IMMUNITY!
Never.Give.In.
We need to see and hear the truth. Let Democracy prevail — for once.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:54 amimmunity = VICTORY for terrorists!
Yes, that includes those in the WH, too.
Seriously, this is, to me, the most cut and dried issue to come along in a loooooooooooooong time.
Are you FOR law breaking and AGAINST the U.S. Constitution?
Grant immunity.
Are you FOR the rule of law and defending that most precious of documents left us by our founding fathers – the document that truly defines US? Say hell NO to immunity.
Let’s see where our congresspeople stand. This is NOT a right vs. left issue, conservative vs. liberal issue – no matter how much and badly Bush and his gullible automatons want to you to believe. It is NOT about national security or terrorism.
It is about what this country stands for, represents and is about. Pretty GD simple.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:58 amWell, I certainly hope my COngressman (John Hall) is among those rejecting ANY form of immunity for the telecoms. They knew they were acting illegally, and they knew they should not have cooeprated. Their lawyers should have been able to tell them that any retaliation on the part of the Bush administration would also have been illegal.
I wonder if the reason the Democrats refuse to hold Bush and Cheney accountable for their actions is out of some respect for the offices these two men hold. If so, they should drop that reasoning. Bush and Cheney have zero respect for the offices they hold, so there is no reason to respect them.
Forget the arguments that Bush isn’t really your president because the Republicans cheated and stole the 2000 elections (which is a fact, so get over it conservatives). Instead, say that Bush is not really your president because he doesn’t act the way the president of the United States should act – in accordance with the Constitution. When Bush starts acting constitutionally, then I’ll start treating him as my president. I will respect him so far as he respects his oath of office.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:59 amDoes this mean that I can write the laws that apply to my life ?
If so, I want a Jet Ski and I want to be a spy!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:09 pmTelecoms have written their own immunity proposals.
Isn’t that sorta like the energy companies writing the U.S. energy policy?
May 8th, 2008 at 12:15 pmIsn’t that sorta like the energy companies writing the U.S. energy policy?
You’re being sarcastic, right, cause they sure as hell do/did!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:22 pmIf we can get the telecoms to deliver the slime in exchange for immunity, that might be an efficient deal.
I agree – with one caveat. They reveal everything and release every single document BEFORE any legislation/deal is done.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pmdeebaser Says:
I’d actually be fine with giving them immunity with FULL DISCLOSURE.
That’s how immunity usually works: Tell us what we want to know, all of it, and we’ll give you a deal.
Frankly, with Nancy “Table Phobic” Pelosi in the Speaker seat, Full disclosure won’t mean chit.
Remove Bush enabler Pelosi!!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pmCongress should tell them they will CONSIDER it after they see ALL the communication and minutes from their White House Meetings on how to lobby congress for immunity. They knew what they were doing was illegal and probably took the word of the National Security Agency it was OK. Does the phrase “ignorance of the law is no excuse,” apply? It didn’t for many before a judge and were told so. These are supposed to be educated men with legal departments at their disposal and went along with it. Now the scrutiny is on them and they are crying. Burn them in court.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:29 pmTelecoms to congress – Your fearless leader made us do it. So it’s not our fault. So there.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pmIf you took these proposals, rolled them up real tight, would they be shovableuptheTelcom’s collective rectal cavity?
May 8th, 2008 at 12:39 pmIn point of fact, there is NO NEED for a Protect America act to be continued as well. This administration tries to sell it as if the entire FISA act was gone. The central reason for the PA Act was immunity (without disclosure) for the telecoms. Either full disclosure is required prior to any possible negotiations, or the whole thing goes away. My preference would be to allow the lawsuits to go into pending mode until the new Democratic administration takes over in January 2009. Oh yes…and deep six Rockefeller – time for him to leave the Senate. He is running for reelection this year. And here’s another reason for him to go:
“Though publicly deploring torture, Rockefeller was one of two Congressional Democrats briefed on waterboarding and other secret CIA practices in the early years of the Bush Administration, as well as the existence of taped evidence of such interrogations (later destroyed).[13] In December 2007, Rockefeller opposed a special counsel or commission inquiry into the destruction of the tapes, stating “it is the job of the intelligence committees to do that.”[14]
On September 28, 2006, Rockefeller voted with a largely Republican majority to suspend habeas corpus provisions for anyone deemed by the Executive Branch an “unlawful combatant,” barring them from challenging their detentions in court. Rockefeller’s vote gave a retroactive, nine-year immunity to U.S. officials who authorized, ordered, or committed acts of torture and abuse, permitting the use of statements obtained through torture to be used in military tribunals so long as the abuse took place by December 30, 2005.[15] Rockefeller’s vote authorized the President to establish permissible interrogation techniques and to “interpret the meaning and application” of international Geneva Convention standards, so long as the coercion fell short of “serious” bodily or psychological injury.[16][17] The bill became law on October 17, 2006.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Rockefeller#Retroactive_immunity_for_torture
May 8th, 2008 at 12:40 pmSo let me take a gander: Their proposal(s) include no oaths and no transcripts yes?
May 8th, 2008 at 1:06 pmTwo sets of judicial standards won’t make anything right.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:16 pmIf the House gives them a get out of jail free card, they should also release hundreds of thousands of lesser offender from their jail cells.
No comprises!
George Carlin:
You have no rights, just temporary priviledges.
Ask the Americans of Japanese descent about thier precious rights when they were hearded into concentration camps back in 1942.
Today we are a fascist police state – make no mistake about that. The priviledges have been suspended for all.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:19 pmctcadguy Says:
The priviledges have been suspended for all.
Uh..No…not for all.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:24 pmCall your congressman NOW and let them know if they vote to grant telecoms immunity, you will vote them out of office. These scums keep trying to get this bill passed. Make sure you let them know you are watching.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:40 pm.
One of the defining principles to what it means to BE an American is the ability to be FREE from a form of Government that seeks to spy and regulate your private and personal lives; THE FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY!
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS…
And so THEY(sic) debate and lobby the merits to undermining those very freedoms THEY(sic) hate.
Freedom #5:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:35 pmPeople should surround congress in masses and demand
. Demand the restoration of the Rule of LAW!!!!!!! Does Congress realizes the World is watching? People are aware of what is actually happening???
May 8th, 2008 at 2:51 pmLet me get it straight… They broke the law. (Noticed the full stop?) and now they (The ones who broke the law) are providing “ideas” to the representatives of the people (Who suffered with their abuse) on ‘How to get away with it???????!!!!!!!!!
May 8th, 2008 at 2:55 pmThis is incredible , does anyone believe it’s actually constitutional to pass a law to excuse your breaking a law retroactively ? Add telecom immubity and you are removeing the TEETH from Fisa , all that will be left for congress to do is to gum them to death.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:19 pmDon’t cave in to crocodile tears, prosecute the law breakers !
THIS IS AMERICA ? REMEMBER ?
Jay Rockerfeller is a man of the people … NOT ….!!!
May 8th, 2008 at 3:43 pmJay Rockerfeller ,
as your grandfathers company EXXON is posting record profits , you are sheltering from prosecution criminals who have broken real and applicable laws ! Get your priorities straight or you and yours will be lumped togrther with the most un popular presidency in American history .
Bushes popularity will definitely be tanking still further with recession and the consumers paying record gas prices at the pump this summer .His rating will never be this high again … mark my words . a 28 % approval rating will be a high point .
May 8th, 2008 at 3:50 pmThe virtual collapse of the value of the dollar abroad will be the only thing falling faster .
Folks its called Fascism. It’s really that simple. And to answer your question about constitutionality, we would need an opposing party with a spine to accomplish anything in that arena. So don’t hold your breath.
I vaguely recall the 4th amendment concerning unreasonable search and seizures. I guess the Constitution in a non-issue, according to our Government – of the people, by the people, and for the people. We had a great country once. Shame we allowed it to get away from us. Can we get it back?
May 8th, 2008 at 3:53 pmThe American People will remember who protected and who betrayed them !
May 8th, 2008 at 3:59 pmHouse leaders have not yet accepted the companies’ proposals, and many lawmakers are still insisting that the telecoms be held responsible for participating in the administration’s wiretapping program.
The telecoms should be held accountable for their actions. But as important as that is, the far greater issue is the ability to fully investigate Bush’s lawlessness. The telecom lawsuits are our last avenue to investigate Bush’s illegal spying on Americans.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
May 8th, 2008 at 5:18 pmWHY o WHY are we here again.
JUST SAY NO! to immunity to the telecoms
Everyone knows that they are hiding something or protecting bush. Enough is enough.
Any Democrat, and republiCON of course, who does not understand what NO IMMUNITY means should be booted out in November 2008.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:02 pmThe Constitution protects Americans from “Ex Post Facto” laws, so that we connot be convicted of acts committed before the government made those acts illegal. No where does it grant the Executive, Administrative or Legislative branches preemptive authority to commit violations of citizens’ Constitutional rights without a warrant and pass immunization legislation after the fact.
Such retroactive immunity represents the kind of random, willy-nilly law enforcement that was practiced in the courts of France and England that our fore-fathers sought to prohibit.
King dub’ya’s cronies describe this country as an “empire.” It’s sickening.
We must charge the next president with the duty to circumscribe presidential power within the limits that it was originally intended. We are a young country . . . an experiment in democracy . . . we must elect leaders that are willing to circumscribe their own power in order to serve the will of the people.
Only a facist country would permit the telecoms to write their own plea bargin. You couldn’t do it. I couldn’t do it. Surly, Bush and Cheney have drafted their own as well.
Let that freak flag fly…slam the telecoms that slammed your privacy and spied on you. It’s your right.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:03 am.
THE PEOPLE SHALL REMEMBER,
COME VOTING TIME NOVEMBER!
.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:10 am