Webb: Bush Would Be First President In History To Veto Benefits For Vets
Webb: Bush Would Be First President In History To Veto Benefits For Vets
On NBC’s “Meet the Press” this morning, Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) discussed his 21st Century GI Bill, which would dramatically expand educational benefits for returning veterans. President Bush, however, has vowed to veto the bill. Webb blasted Bush for this unprecedented action:
No president in history has vetoed a benefits bill for those who served. … The Republican party is on the block here, to clearly demonstrate that they value military service or suffer the consequences of losing the support of people who’ve served. … The president has a choice here to show how much he values military service.
Watch it:
The Pentagon has suggested that Webb’s bill is too generous in conferring benefits to soldiers after “only” two years of service. However, as Webb pointed out, soldiers would still have to finish their enlistment term. What’s more, as a recent CBO report showed, any loss in reenlistment rates is entirely made up for by increased military recruits.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and his allies have introduced their own version of the bill, which would reserve the most generous benefits for those who have served at least 12 years. Webb pointed out that it would exclude the vast majority of service members:
Seventy to 75 percent of the ground troops in the Army and the Marine Corps have left the service by the end of their first enlistment. And those are the people who are not being taken care of. … They are not getting an opportunity for the first-class education they deserve.
As Webb pointed out, conservatives need to match their rhetoric on supporting the troops with their actions.
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Webb: Bush Would Be First President In History To Veto Benefits For Vets
Wasn’t that Hoover?
May 18th, 2008 at 11:29 amDoesn’t it seem funny that Russert managed to mention Bush’s oposition to the G.I. Bill, but not McSame’s?
May 18th, 2008 at 11:30 amhe also mentioned that historically democrats have suffered from a stigma that came from democrats valuing military service less than republicans, and how that has influenced democrats’ image. He then contrasted that with today, where the republicans will use the military and military imagery to gain political advantage; he concludes that now its the republicans who fail to understand the value of military service. i think this is consonant with, and strengthened by, the numbers of iraq vets who have gone into public service as democrats.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:40 amLets see, you go in at 18, you do your 12 of service. That puts you at 30 years old, then you do your 4 years of college, really 6 for a Master’s because bachelor degrees are common now and you pushing 40. WTF were these people thinking?
Hell, might as well stick it out for your twenty plus, take classes while you are in and retire from the service.
The other I can see happening is that people join up, go to their schools their branch of the military offers and take classes on the side and don’t need this at the end of the twelve years. Maybe use it for a Masters at that point.
Friggin pointless for a lot of people.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:56 amEveryone by now should know “Support the Troops” has no true meaning to Republicans other than their use of it as a slogan, marketing talking point. Just like “Compassionate Conservatism”, “Freedom”, “Rule of Law”, etc. all talk, smoke an mirrors, with nothing to back it up in the day to day real world.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:57 am#6 Wayne
And don’t forget the biggie, “Activist Judges”. I am betting that will play a huge role in Johmmy Boy’s campaign as we go forward.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pmSomeone should ask Sen. McCain if Brown vs Board of Education was the result of “Activist Judges”.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:17 pmYup, activist “unelected” judges, those scum-sucking succubi: there’s five of ‘em I could name off the top o’me ‘aid!
May 18th, 2008 at 12:17 pmThere’ll be controversial “god/guns/gays” cases for the SCROTUS to hear this fall, too, providing red-meat propaganda opportunities to gin up the faithful to a rabid, reactionary pitch. I wouldn’t be surprised to see something about religious freedom arise from the FLDS/baby-fuuking church tempest. Is the Calif SupCt gay marriage decision appealable to the SCROTUS? There’ll be gun cases galore, naturally.
The “Activist Judges” that gave CORPORATIONS the same rights as living, breathing, humans in the 1850s. Oh those “Activist Judges.” Now I got it.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmLesson learned: Don’t Sign Up For The Benefits – There Aren’t Any (even if you live)
May 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmIs the Calif SupCt gay marriage decision appealable to the SCROTUS?
One word.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmNo.
Wasn’t that Hoover?
May 18th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Mighta been, depends. he called out the troops on the bonus army, so i guess shooting and clubbing folks counts as denying benefits to vets.
But it’s safely in the policy portmanteau of the GOPhux, if that’s what’s worrying you…
May 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pm1-21-2008
WASHINGTON- President George W. Bush yesterday “pocket vetoed” a bill that includes a provision by Senator Mary L. Landrieu, D-La., to make the primary mission of U.S. counter-terror operations the capture al Qaeda leaders, and to increase pay to military service members.
Senator Landrieu’s amendment to H.R. 1585, the Defense Authorization Bill, would have made the capture or killing of Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and other leaders of al Qaeda and the destruction of their terrorist network the primary mission of U.S. counter-terrorism operations. Also included in the Defense Authorization Bill was an across-the-board pay increase for U.S. service members and enhancements to veterans’ medical care. The Bill would have reduced a pay gap between military and civilian pay.
The bill passed unanimously in the Senate, but the President rejected it without signing within the 10-day window required by the Constitution.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pmYou know, anyone making a decision about a career must also make some pretty serious decisions about retirement savings at the same time. We all know that military retirement pensions are fairly decent. However, especially in the enlisted ranks, you forgo competitive pay. You do not accrue a portable retirement fund. If you quit before twenty, you get zip. If you get riffed, you must be substantially close to retirement and the amounts give are grossly inadequate.
GI Bill benefits are less useful to officers since the vast majority come into the service from ROTC programs or direct commission programs with degrees. No, the educational benefits are really there to assist the enlisted grunt. So look at what the enlisted grunt has to look for under the McCain plan:
1. Entering the military (with high probability of going to combat – multiple tours) at 18.
2. Leaving the military at 24 with minimum educational benefits and nothing saved towards retirement.
Or: Leaving the service at 30 with maximum benefits and nothing in the pot for retirement unless he saves it out of an inadequate pay level.
3. Entering the civilian workforce at the age of 28 or or 34 with a four year degree and finally starting in a career.
No, this is a slap in the face of those who choose a career in the military. The educational benefits are best for those who are young and have the ability to work a full career. Full benefits after 2-4 four years (age 20-22) means that the recruit can serve their country, get a full education and either look forward to returning to the military or having a full and productive career. Entering the labor force at 34 without any retirement savings and as a brand new entrant into a professional field will forever put that person behind in earnings and retirement savings.
This is the story that we must give out. The proposed McCain Bill makes a mockery of educational benefits. This is just like his proposed gas tax holiday – a good sound bite, but just a meaningless gesture.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:26 pm“…conservatives need to match their rhetoric on supporting the troops with their actions.”
I would suggest to the good Senator that the conservatives are doing exactly as he says. My dictionary defines rhetoric as insincere and bombastic language. The neocons are certainly insincere and bombastic with their meaningless pledge to “support” our troops. The Neocon rule: Do as I say not as I lie and steal.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:34 pm“In the sad aftermath that always follows a great war here is nothing sadder than the surprise of the returned soldiers when they discover that they are regarded generally as public nuisances,and not too honest.”
H L Mencken, quoted in the “B.E.F News” July 23,1932
“History is littered with governments destabilized by masses of veterans who believed that they had been taken for fools by a society that grew rich and fat at their expense of their hardship and suffering.”
Anthony J Principi, U S Secretary of Veterans Affairs,
March 14,2001 in a speech to the Smithsonian’s Wilson Library
Notice the date of Principi’s speech.
Herbert Hoover was a Republican!
May 18th, 2008 at 1:04 pmGo ahead W. Make my day and veto this bill. Then when your party is permanently dead in the water the people who truly support the troops will make sure they get what they deserve. Of course it will be a year late. But if you and McCrazy have your way it will be NEVER. Couple of jerks.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:04 pmYou guys obviously don’t understand the GOP caste system.
If you are born rich, you can either avoid service completely or have a few favors, like John McCain the Admiral’s son and his academic… attempts. You can also go to Yale and Harvard and Princeton at your leisure, learning optional. You are also immune from accountability and “Glass House collapse” such as the grandson of Prescott Bush bringing up less than firm opposition to Nazis.
If you are not born rich then you can take care of your self and if you work twice as hard you can do okay, maybe.
Oh and if you’re Democrat from modest beginnings to be a decorated officer like Jimmy Carter, you’re still a pansy. Leave the decisions to the real men like draft-dodgers.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pmWith all due respect to Senator Webb — one of the few Congresscritters in Washington for whom I have respect — why the surprise? Practically since the day he first took office as President, Bush has been no friend to the troops. Let’s take a look at how Bush has chosen to “support the troops”, shall we?
Starting an unjustified war based on seriously faulty if not outright forged intelligence…
Failing to put enough troops on the ground to accomplish the stated objective as a result of having dismissed and disregarded the advice of experienced military advisors…
Repeatedly replacing any military advisors who do not agree with Bush’s agenda…
Failing to supply the troops with sufficient protective equipment, forcing personnel to improvise by scrounging through landfills for scrap metal…
Penalizing military families which attempted to provide protective equipment for their loved ones out of their own finances…
Restricting the casualty list to those personnel whose deaths occurred within in the field of operations and omitting the names of those who died from their injuries en route to receiving treatment…
Slashing veteran’s benefits…
Housing injured troops in slumlike conditions…
Permitting military contractors (namely, KBR) to provide troops with substandard supplies such as water and to ignore potentially fatal safety violations…
Having the gall to refer to serving in war as “romantic” when he himself used his father’s connections to avoid serving in Vietnam himself…
Need we go on?
May 18th, 2008 at 1:22 pmAnother proud moment for the Bush family, courtesy of their most worthless member.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pmIsn’t it obvious what’s going on? If we help soldiers get higher education which they would otherwise be unable to afford, that would not only strengthen their knowledge and move more away from the GOP, it would mean their children would be much more likely to have a good education and go to college.
Their children will be going to college and learning about the failures of this administration, plus the Reagan years will have some perspective and the rise of gangs, drugs, secret treacherous dealings, etc.
And God forbid a Democrat leads such a bill!
Beyond that it will be a boon for Black and Latino people and communities (among other groups) with some substance, something odd for the government.
The GOP volunteer army: force ‘em in because of poverty, bring ‘em out poor and cut Veterans’ care.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pmBluestocking Says:
May 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pmVery Good post
Wish I could recommend your post more than once.
Don’t forget singe that Reagan closed all the mental hospitals enhancing the huge homeless problem we have in this country. Funny how the Young Republican college students manage to ignore all this.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pmBush sees troops as chess players on the board.
Once they’re injured, dead or have returned home, they no longer are troops; thus, neither they nor their families need support.
Voila! Black and white. The world is so simple.
He is a foolish, arrogant man worried more about future history books than the present damage he has wrought.
I hope Webb’s bill passes; Bush vetoes it; the veto is overridden; Bush tacks on a “signing statement” to ignore the bill’s details; America revolts.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:43 pmPatty Says:
Bush sees troops as chess players on the board.
More like checkers, Bush can’t even complete a coherent sentence, much less play chess.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm“King me”
To Wayne @ #27 –
You’re right.
May 18th, 2008 at 2:33 pmA chess match would be comical:
“Now, the little horsies, they’re like tanks, right?”
“Whaddya mean, the queen’s got more moves than the king?!”
“Now Dick, jest let me jump over yer front line with this castle, and I’ll let you make it’cher summer home.”
This is more Support for the Troops ©, Republican-style:
Hey, let them eat cake -they volunteered!
/sarcasm off
May 18th, 2008 at 3:11 pmthe part of the bill I like is how it grants citizenship to any foreigner who serves 20 years in Ceasar’s legions…o, wait…
May 18th, 2008 at 3:23 pmStop the presses. You got yer VP candidate.
May 18th, 2008 at 4:14 pmBush Legacy
First President to be hung for treason
“Heckuva job Georgie”
May 18th, 2008 at 5:09 pmThe very best thing about the Webb interview was his use of the word “nonpartisan”. I’m a rock-ribbed Independent (and veteran) who despises the Two-Party system. Even our political discourse has been poisoned: Politicians and pundits use “bipartisan” and “bipartisanship” as if they represented lofty compromise or putting the nation’s interests first. If they gave a tinker’s damn about the nation, they would use “nonpartisan.” The “bi” prefix shows what they truly care about, maintaining a stranglehold duopoly of Buy-Partisanship. Sorry for the long post; I’m a strange guerrilla curmudgeon hiding out in the desolate, windswept hills on the margins of contemporary political thought. You can return to Usual Politics now…
May 18th, 2008 at 5:20 pmIcenine:
May 18th, 2008 at 6:18 pmAre you a member of my karass? Sort of seems that way…
Hoover did not veto benefits for veterans, veterans came to D.C. asking that benefits promised them for their WWI service would be disbursed early because the depression had left so many homeless and jobless. they were known as the Bonus Marchers. Hoover ordered the military to remove their encampment and they were attacked with tanks and other weapons, the shanytown (Hooverville) burned to the ground and many casualties. Leading the attack were MacArthur, Eisenhower and Patton: from eyewitnesstohistory.com
n July 28, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the evacuation of the veterans from all government property, Entrusted with the job, the Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two marchers killed. Learning of the shooting at lunch, President Hoover ordered the army to clear out the veterans. Infantry and cavalry supported by six tanks were dispatched with Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur in command. Major Dwight D. Eisenhower served as his liaison with Washington police and Major George Patton led the cavalry.
By 4:45 P.M. the troops were massed on Pennsylvania Ave. below the Capitol. Thousands of Civil Service employees spilled out of work and lined the streets to watch. The veterans, assuming the military display was in their honor, cheered. Suddenly Patton’s troopers turned and charged. “Shame, Shame” the spectators cried. Soldiers with fixed bayonets followed, hurling tear gas into the crowd.
By nightfall the BEF had retreated across the Anacostia River where Hoover ordered MacArthur to stop. Ignoring the command, the general led his infantry to the main camp. By early morning the 10,000 inhabitants were routed and the camp in flames. Two babies died and nearby hospitals overwhelmed with casualties. Eisenhower later wrote, “the whole scene was pitiful. The veterans were ragged, ill-fed, and felt themselves badly abused. To suddenly see the whole encampment going up in flames just added to the pity.”
May 18th, 2008 at 8:52 pmDo you all know why he is going to veto the bill?
May 18th, 2008 at 9:01 pmI think its funny, first the evangelicals figured out they were being used and bolted; now the enlisted guys.
After 08 is over we will all be saying “What Reubulicans”
I must admit though that I really do love what GW and his team have accomplished……….
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Utter distruction of the Rebulican party. After this the Dems will have to split just to keep a balance.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:51 pmBush is a deserter. He doesn’t care about the military. During my 4 years in the U.S.N. I wanted out so bad. If I had left and not showed up for a year, I would still be in a military prison. Why isn’t he?
May 18th, 2008 at 10:26 pmeducation makes you think. soldiers, even retired soldiers, who think are much less useful to the military..
May 18th, 2008 at 10:38 pmThose who served have a special place for deserters and cowards. Bush, you will be in that place, and are already.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:43 pmYour lack of leadership and honesty guarantees you the bottom of the barrel.
Not to bad, for two guys (dick&shrub), who dodged Viet(phucking)nam, how many times?????????
May 19th, 2008 at 1:17 am%#@!*&^% COWARD………………..
May 19th, 2008 at 1:21 amI don’t think Bush will actually veto this bill.
I don’t see how he can.
He’ll figure out some way to sidestep it or run out the clock on it.
Veto-ing it would be suicide for the GOP.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:07 amHe is going to veto the bill because the democrast want to fund it by raising taxes for the wealthy. Whether or not you beliecve the rich should be taxed less or more is irrelevant. The democrats are using this bill to play a political game to show that they support our troops. Read the original article.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:09 amWhat more do you want from the Republicans? They wear flag lapel pins. How much more can they do to support the troops?
May 19th, 2008 at 1:19 pmindyjones Says
So why shouldn’t these well off chicken hawks sacrifice a little something??? These are the same folks who cheerlead shrubs folly and think that their lapel pin and ribbon sticker are enough. As far as political games…you sure as hell haven’t been paying attention to turdbutters list of dirty tricks have you. Also let me guess, YOU have never served,have you???
May 19th, 2008 at 5:47 pmSpecialist F,
Please leave your “I have served our country” speech for someone else. It is irrelevant and a dumb argument that I will call you on. If you have served, I appreciate your service, but don’t think that because you have served you are an expert on all matters military or government-related.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:57 pmSpecialist F
So you are admitting it’s a dirty trick by the Dems?
May 19th, 2008 at 5:58 pmSpecialist F
So you are admitting it’s a dirty trick by the Dems?
May 19th, 2008 at 5:58 pmYea, that’s what I thought,another frigging chicken hawk. No,indy2times,it’s not a dirty trick.BUT outing a CIA agent for revenge is. Railroading a Governor into jail is. Questioning a combat Veteran who lost 3 limbs patriotism is. Using Exectutive Privelege on EVERYTHING IS!
May 19th, 2008 at 7:10 pmAnd I never claimed to be an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. ;) You do not have to be an expert at much to see we need to take care of ALL of our Vets, no matter if they only served 2 years or 12.
May 19th, 2008 at 7:36 pmThe republicans agree with you – we should take care of our vets (2 years in or 12), but the dems knew that by funding it through yet another tax on the rich, that the repubs would knock it down and they in trun could say – in the dawn of an election – that the repubs don’t support our military. I don’t think there is a decent human in this country who does not appreciate the sacrifices of our men and women and would not want them to be taken care of. My only complaint here is that TP is very selctive about how they present these issues and how there are a good number of you folks here who do not read the original article (that informed TP’s headline). This is the same type of reporting that you all criticize Fox News for. Can we just apply the same standards across the board?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:05 amThis is another example that the “old world jounalism of Murrow, Cronkite and Rather is dead and buried. In the case of the Time Magazine reporter Ms Tumulty, she seems to think the finding out the who, what, where, when and how have been replaced with a steno pad, which she records what ABC said in rebuttle to the complaint of Congressman Kucinich. There is a great disconnect with what happened and the points made by ABC. She asks little of no questions to ABC. She takes what is handed to her and repeats it vebatim and then calls that reporting. I call is stenography. Lida Sohbet sohbet sesli chat Gelinlik Modelleri
January 11th, 2009 at 11:37 amSeems like a Yahoo email address would be easy for hackers to get into rather than a secure government server. Wink wink nod.
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The Republican party is on the block here, to clearly demonstrate that they value military service or suffer the consequences of losing the support of people who’ve served. …
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