Comments on: James Baker: ‘Talking to an enemy is not, in my view, appeasement.’ http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 03:57:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: mr.frazzlebottom http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-2/#comment-4973148 mr.frazzlebottom Thu, 22 May 2008 01:18:25 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4973148 <blockquote>Recently there's been a lot of incompetent talk about "appeasement." Such talk, however, has little to do with actual appeasement–which involves, if I'm not mistaken, giving in to an aggressor in order to avoid conflict. It's been used, however, to characterize any diplomatic interaction, which is obviously false. </blockquote> http://thenonsequitur.com/?p=674

Recently there’s been a lot of incompetent talk about “appeasement.” Such talk, however, has little to do with actual appeasement–which involves, if I’m not mistaken, giving in to an aggressor in order to avoid conflict. It’s been used, however, to characterize any diplomatic interaction, which is obviously false.

http://thenonsequitur.com/?p=674

]]> By: Pernell http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4972134 Pernell Wed, 21 May 2008 17:56:38 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4972134 Scowcroft isn't that smart or he doesn't mind working to subvert our politcal system to Sun Myung Moon's grand scheme front group, The Universal Peace Federation. Scowcroft and Bush 41 just spoke at a gathering of Moon's "bring the Kingdom of Moon" front a couple weeks ago. The media ignored this of course. This will explain: http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/5/6/6440/76200 Scowcroft isn’t that smart or he doesn’t mind working to subvert our politcal system to Sun Myung Moon’s grand scheme front group, The Universal Peace Federation. Scowcroft and Bush 41 just spoke at a gathering of Moon’s “bring the Kingdom of Moon” front a couple weeks ago.

The media ignored this of course.

This will explain:
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/5/6/6440/76200

]]> By: lylepink http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971380 lylepink Wed, 21 May 2008 12:32:03 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971380 Chocolate Jesus: I think you are deliberately trying to distort what I am, and have been saying all along. Nothing in Politics is " A SURE THING". The information I came across in January has been proven to be amazingly ACCURATE. The Repubs felt Obama was the weakeast of the viable Dems, Hillary the strongest, and it is only "common sense" to want to run against the opponent who you consider the weakest. BTW, I agreed with them and still do. Chocolate Jesus: I think you are deliberately trying to distort what I am, and have been saying all along. Nothing in Politics is ” A SURE THING”. The information I came across in January has been proven to be amazingly ACCURATE. The Repubs felt Obama was the weakeast of the viable Dems, Hillary the strongest, and it is only “common sense” to want to run against the opponent who you consider the weakest. BTW, I agreed with them and still do.

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971344 Chocolate Jesus Wed, 21 May 2008 10:04:43 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971344 some items hilary supporters should buy to cheer themselves up 500$ cornflake that resembles hilary: http://cgi.ebay.com/Kelloggs-Frosted-Flake-Look-Alike-HILLARY-CLINTON_W0QQitemZ180243020894QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1467QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem picture of hilary on harley (great for D#kes on B#kes) http://cgi.ebay.com/Hillary-Bill-Clinton-Painting-Art-Jim-Harrington-RARE_W0QQitemZ110250529345QQihZ001QQcategoryZ551QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem hilary clinton coffee mug: http://cgi.ebay.com/Hilary-Rodham-Clinton-Coffee-Mug_W0QQitemZ150248443157QQihZ005QQcategoryZ14899QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem some items hilary supporters should buy to cheer themselves up

500$ cornflake that resembles hilary:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kelloggs-Frosted-Flake-Look-Alike-HILLARY-CLINTON_W0QQitemZ180243020894QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1467QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

picture of hilary on harley (great for D#kes on B#kes)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hillary-Bill-Clinton-Painting-Art-Jim-Harrington-RARE_W0QQitemZ110250529345QQihZ001QQcategoryZ551QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

hilary clinton coffee mug:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hilary-Rodham-Clinton-Coffee-Mug_W0QQitemZ150248443157QQihZ005QQcategoryZ14899QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

]]> By: thirdparty http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971330 thirdparty Wed, 21 May 2008 09:25:11 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971330 A few things. One, there is a difference between dealing with Iran and Syria and dealing with groups like Hamas. Even Obama suggests he would not speak with the latter, and I think Hamas clearly fits into the Bush speech, which said, "Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along." The more I read that, the more I think it was geared towards Jimmy Carter's meeting with Hamas, though I cannot be sure. However, even if we are talking about states - which Baker has always been for, looking at his history in politics and his work on the Iraq Study Group - I don't think it's a question of negotiating, but rather negotiating with(out) preconditions. The degree to which you deal with Syria and Iran can be seen through Bush/McCain, Clinton and Obama, as if on a spectrum. Bush doesn't want to meet with the leadership, but they do hold contacts at a lower level; Clinton wants negotiations, but not without preconditions; and Obama answered affirmatively the question of whether he would meet those leaders without preconditions. I say all this to make two points: one, if Bush's remarks are aimed at Carter and Hamas, then there is no point in bringing in Baker, who I am most certain would oppose negotiating with Hamas. Two, even when talking about states, there is a difference between Baker's position, which if you read the Iraq Study Group report indicates preconditions, versus Obama's position. Right now, Baker is more in the Hillary Clinton area of the spectrum of views. A few things. One, there is a difference between dealing with Iran and Syria and dealing with groups like Hamas. Even Obama suggests he would not speak with the latter, and I think Hamas clearly fits into the Bush speech, which said, “Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.” The more I read that, the more I think it was geared towards Jimmy Carter’s meeting with Hamas, though I cannot be sure.

However, even if we are talking about states – which Baker has always been for, looking at his history in politics and his work on the Iraq Study Group – I don’t think it’s a question of negotiating, but rather negotiating with(out) preconditions. The degree to which you deal with Syria and Iran can be seen through Bush/McCain, Clinton and Obama, as if on a spectrum. Bush doesn’t want to meet with the leadership, but they do hold contacts at a lower level; Clinton wants negotiations, but not without preconditions; and Obama answered affirmatively the question of whether he would meet those leaders without preconditions.

I say all this to make two points: one, if Bush’s remarks are aimed at Carter and Hamas, then there is no point in bringing in Baker, who I am most certain would oppose negotiating with Hamas. Two, even when talking about states, there is a difference between Baker’s position, which if you read the Iraq Study Group report indicates preconditions, versus Obama’s position. Right now, Baker is more in the Hillary Clinton area of the spectrum of views.

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971322 Chocolate Jesus Wed, 21 May 2008 08:55:40 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971322 > For instance, no Dem has been elected POTUS without winning > WV since 1916. also, for instance, no black has received the nomination for a major party in america since....well..uhm... if you think history is such a perfect guide, you got any stock tips for us? oh, and while your at it, maybe you can explain how you know rush's "operation choas" was a joke? inside info perphaps? hilary is done. buy a commemorative art plate of her and get over it. > For instance, no Dem has been elected POTUS without winning > WV since 1916.

also, for instance, no black has received the nomination for a major party in america since….well..uhm…

if you think history is such a perfect guide, you got any stock tips for us? oh, and while your at it, maybe you can explain how you know rush’s “operation choas” was a joke?
inside info perphaps?

hilary is done. buy a commemorative art plate of her and get over it.

]]> By: lylepink http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971292 lylepink Wed, 21 May 2008 07:05:31 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971292 had enough: Early in January I discovered the Repub strategy to support Obama in their all out effort to stop Hillary at any cost/price, and this included giving money to the Obama campaign, voting for him in the X-Over states and changing their Registration to vote for him in the closed Primaries. Their reason for this was Hillary was the only Dem they thought/KNEW they could not beat in the GE. I Posted this info on several Blogs and how it has been highly successful. The Rush "Chaos" deal was a Joke after most of the damage was done and had very little effect. I am pretty sure the Repub vote for him was approximately 25% of Repubs that will go back and vote for McCain in November as they planned. had enough: Early in January I discovered the Repub strategy to support Obama in their all out effort to stop Hillary at any cost/price, and this included giving money to the Obama campaign, voting for him in the X-Over states and changing their Registration to vote for him in the closed Primaries. Their reason for this was Hillary was the only Dem they thought/KNEW they could not beat in the GE. I Posted this info on several Blogs and how it has been highly successful. The Rush “Chaos” deal was a Joke after most of the damage was done and had very little effect. I am pretty sure the Repub vote for him was approximately 25% of Repubs that will go back and vote for McCain in November as they planned.

]]> By: jps http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971266 jps Wed, 21 May 2008 05:29:08 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971266 video removed, mirror? video removed, mirror?

]]> By: had enough http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971238 had enough Wed, 21 May 2008 04:57:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971238 lylepink, Once Obama is nominated and the debates begin, the contest will be a cake walk for Obama. Especially if the debates do not have a MSM moderator as I heard mentioned. Why is it Rush started op chaos sending his ilk to vote for Hillary so McCain might run against her instead of Obama? Does Hillary have a false edge because of these votes? Why do the republicans want to run against her? Polls are taken by land line phones, where many of the Obama supporters use cell phones only. I question the reliability of the polls. Yes, this election is about the economy and it was <strong>Bill Clinton, with Hillary in agreement until it became an election issue, that signed NAFTA</strong> which helped our jobs go over seas. lylepink,

Once Obama is nominated and the debates begin, the contest will be a cake walk for Obama. Especially if the debates do not have a MSM moderator as I heard mentioned.

Why is it Rush started op chaos sending his ilk to vote for Hillary so McCain might run against her instead of Obama? Does Hillary have a false edge because of these votes? Why do the republicans want to run against her?

Polls are taken by land line phones, where many of the Obama supporters use cell phones only. I question the reliability of the polls.

Yes, this election is about the economy and it was Bill Clinton, with Hillary in agreement until it became an election issue, that signed NAFTA which helped our jobs go over seas.

]]> By: lylepink http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971222 lylepink Wed, 21 May 2008 04:27:32 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971222 Shayne: History is a great teacher. For instance, no Dem has been elected POTUS without winning WV since 1916. Look at 2000, Gore would have won if he had carried WV. These are only little odd things that most folks do not even think about, yet how true they are is not in dispute. I went back to June 2007 and found my estimate on the EC map and found only two states [out of 22 going Dem] I had not predicted either way was Ky. and WV. now they go Dem only if Hillary is the nominee. The Caucus states are easy to predict in the GE because they usually go "D" or "R", and not many could be considered "Swing States". Shayne: History is a great teacher. For instance, no Dem has been elected POTUS without winning WV since 1916. Look at 2000, Gore would have won if he had carried WV. These are only little odd things that most folks do not even think about, yet how true they are is not in dispute. I went back to June 2007 and found my estimate on the EC map and found only two states [out of 22 going Dem] I had not predicted either way was Ky. and WV. now they go Dem only if Hillary is the nominee. The Caucus states are easy to predict in the GE because they usually go “D” or “R”, and not many could be considered “Swing States”.

]]> By: marlow http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971200 marlow Wed, 21 May 2008 03:46:30 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971200 Flavor-2008 Says: marlow, You admit that Bakeris a criminal. SO Think Progress supports criminals! Wow. Flavor-2008 Says:

marlow,
You admit that Bakeris a criminal. SO Think Progress supports criminals!
Wow.

]]> By: ralph the wonder llama http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971198 ralph the wonder llama Wed, 21 May 2008 03:43:44 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971198 So now Trajan thinks that quoting someone is equivalent to "support"? It demonstrates "high regard" to simply quote someone, according to Twajie? Sheesh. No wonder he's got no visitors to his lame site. So now Trajan thinks that quoting someone is equivalent to “support”? It demonstrates “high regard” to simply quote someone, according to Twajie?

Sheesh. No wonder he’s got no visitors to his lame site.

]]> By: Uosdwis http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971168 Uosdwis Wed, 21 May 2008 03:14:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971168 Don't couch it- you're right, "in your view" or not. Don’t couch it- you’re right, “in your view” or not.

]]> By: Shayne http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971162 Shayne Wed, 21 May 2008 03:08:49 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971162 lylepink. people like you keep trying to win the last election, it's like fighting the last war. This election will be different than any in recent history because it isn't only old white people who will go out to vote. The only way Republicans can win will be to steal it and they're trying to do that. lylepink. people like you keep trying to win the last election, it’s like fighting the last war. This election will be different than any in recent history because it isn’t only old white people who will go out to vote. The only way Republicans can win will be to steal it and they’re trying to do that.

]]> By: lylepink http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971150 lylepink Wed, 21 May 2008 02:55:58 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971150 had enough: I am talking about Ky., WV, Ohio, and Pa.. These are states Dems must win in November to take back The White House. Check past elections and you will find, for the most part, how these states vote in the GE pretty well goes with the winner, and to lose even one of them could mean the Dems would lose. You have to spend a little time to figure it out but it is easy to understand, once you get into reasons given for voting and it usually boils down to the "Economy". had enough: I am talking about Ky., WV, Ohio, and Pa.. These are states Dems must win in November to take back The White House. Check past elections and you will find, for the most part, how these states vote in the GE pretty well goes with the winner, and to lose even one of them could mean the Dems would lose. You have to spend a little time to figure it out but it is easy to understand, once you get into reasons given for voting and it usually boils down to the “Economy”.

]]> By: dbadass http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971132 dbadass Wed, 21 May 2008 02:44:21 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971132 Come on Flav, That's just beyond weak Come on Flav, That’s just beyond weak

]]> By: marlow http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971116 marlow Wed, 21 May 2008 02:30:29 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971116 Ronald Reagan gave advanced weaponry to the Ayatollah and Chimpy's grandpa-pa admired and did business with the Nazis whose rapacity his grandson affects to warn us about. Baker is the consigliere of the Bush crime family and even he understands that a conversation needs to happen before the birds are flown. The planet is not a smoking sphere of charcoal in large part because a special little phone exists in the Oval office and whatever it's counterpart in the Kremlin. 'Nuff said. Ronald Reagan gave advanced weaponry to the Ayatollah and Chimpy’s grandpa-pa admired and did business with the Nazis whose rapacity his grandson affects to warn us about. Baker is the consigliere of the Bush crime family and even he understands that a conversation needs to happen before the birds are flown. The planet is not a smoking sphere of charcoal in large part because a special little phone exists in the Oval office and whatever it’s counterpart in the Kremlin. ‘Nuff said.

]]> By: dbadass http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971066 dbadass Wed, 21 May 2008 01:38:04 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971066 Nah, They'll just send the "Happy Holidays" card. It is sort of like the horsehead in the bed. A message must be sent Nah, They’ll just send the “Happy Holidays” card. It is sort of like the horsehead in the bed. A message must be sent

]]> By: Shayne http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971060 Shayne Wed, 21 May 2008 01:36:35 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971060 So Flavor-2008 is "concern". I thought 2008 was a$$hole. So Flavor-2008 is “concern”. I thought 2008 was a$$hole.

]]> By: spencers mom http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/comment-page-1/#comment-4971056 spencers mom Wed, 21 May 2008 01:36:02 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/20/james-baker-talking-to-an-enemy-is-not-in-my-view-appeasement/#comment-4971056 I guess we know who just dropped off the Christmas card list. PEACE I guess we know who just dropped off the Christmas card list.

PEACE

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