McCain Tells Ellen DeGeneres: You Shouldn’t Have The Right To Get Married
McCain Tells Ellen DeGeneres: You Shouldn’t Have The Right To Get Married
Yesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) taped an interview with Ellen DeGeneres, which airs today. Ellen, who recently announced that she plans to take advantage of the California Supreme Court’s recent gay marriage ruling and wed her longtime girlfriend, actress Portia di Rossi, pressed McCain on his stance on gay marriage.
McCain said that he opposes gay marriage, but said couples should be able to allowed to enter into legal agreements:
McCAIN: Well, my thoughts are that I think people should be able to enter into legal agreements, and I think that is something that we should encourage, particularly in the case of insurance and other areas, decisions that have to be made. I just believe in the unique status of marriage between man and woman. And I know that we have a respectful disagreement on that issue.
DEGENERES: Yeah, I mean, I think that it is looked at, and some people are saying that blacks and women did not have the right to vote. Women just got the right to vote in 1920, blacks didn’t have the right to vote until 1870, and it just feels like there’s this old way of thinking that we’re not all the same. We are all the same people. All of us. You’re no different than I am. Our love is the same.”
The audience was largely silent for McCain’s remarks, but cheered loudly after Ellen spoke. Watch it:
Even this stance may have been pandering to Ellen’s audience. In the past, McCain has been even more radically conservative, opposing civil unions:
– In 2005, he supported an Arizona amendment that would change the state’s constitution “to ban gay marriages and deny government benefits to unmarried couples.” [LINK]
– On Nov. 19, 2006, ABC’s George Stephanopoulous asked McCain, “So you’re for civil unions?” McCain replied, “No.” He instead said they should be able to only “enter into contracts” and “exchange powers of attorney.” [LINK
– In 2007, McCain said he was opposed to New Hampshire’s bill legalizing civil unions for same-sex couples. “If I were a citizen of New Hampshire, I would oppose it,” he said. “Anything that impinges or impacts the sanctity of the marriage between men and women, I’m opposed to it.” [LINK
In 2006, he also told the late Rev. Jerry Falwell that would support a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, even though he opposed such a measure in 2004.
Transcript:
DEGENERES: So let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about the big elephant in the room. So, by the way, I was planning on having a ceremony anyway this summer, even though it wasn’t legal, but I feel that at least I get to celebrate my love. And then, it just so happens, I can now legally get married, as everyone should.
McCAIN: And I saw where even registered you.
DEGENERES: Yeah, yeah. Illegally registered me. But, yeah. So, I’m obviously excited, and to me, this is only fair and only natural, and what are your thoughts?
McCAIN: Well, my thoughts are that I think people should be able to enter into legal agreements, and I think that is something that we should encourage, particularly in the case of insurance and other areas, decisions that have to be made. I just believe in the unique status of marriage between man and woman. And I know that we have a respectful disagreement on that issue.
DEGENERES: Yeah, I mean, I think that it is looked at, and some people are saying that blacks and women did not have the right to vote. Women just got the right to vote in 1920, blacks didn’t have the right to vote until 1870, and it just feels like there’s this old way of thinking that we’re not all the same. We are all the same people. All of us. You’re no different than I am. Our love is the same.
(APPLAUSE)
To me, what it feels like, just — I will speak for myself — it feels like when someone says you can have a contract, and you’ll still have insurance and you’ll get all that, it sounds to me like saying, “You can sit there, you just can’t sit there.” That’s what it sounds like to me. It doesn’t feel inclusive; it feels isolated. It feels like we aren’t owed the same things and the same wording.
McCAIN: Well, I’ve heard you articulate that position in a very eloquent fashion and we have a disagreement and I, along with many many others, wish you every happiness.
DEGENERES: So you’ll walk me down the aisle? Is that what you’re saying?
McCAIN: Touche.
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Insane McCain’s ideas are like the tide you have to figure out which way they are headed in or out up or down. How could anyone that isn’t illiterate vote for this flip-flopping fool
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:20 amDid Ellen take McCain to task for accepting the support of Rev. Hagee?
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:22 amWhere do you go for hard-hitting questions directed at the Republican nominee?? Why, Ellen, of course!
oy
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:27 amMcPutz should not have the right to get married, and be allowed to pollute the gene pool.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:27 amHere’s an interesting take on the subject of gay marriage:
>>How about this for a compromise?
How about instead of granting government recognition to gay marriages, we deny government recognition to straight marriages?
How about, in other words, we get government out of the sacrament business altogether?
Let the various churches, denominations and other belief groups decide who gets to perform the marriage ritual with whom, and leave the blessing and the consecrating to religious institutions.
And let the government handle the contract end of things. That’s government’s job—outlining the binding nitty-gritty of mutual obligations and privileges in legally sanctioned relationships…<<
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-zorn-22-may22,0,3604605.column
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:30 amIf they could get away with it, Republicans would take away women’s right to vote, make interracial marriage illegal, and force blacks back into slavery. Their doctrines come straight from the pit of Hell.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:31 amActually, I think the past practice of interracial marriage being illegal would have been a better argument than the one she made about women and blacks getting the vote.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:35 amI think people should be able to enter into legal agreements… I just believe in the unique status of marriage between man and woman
There it is, my friends. If you think about the civil rights of gays to sanction their partnership, you accept a gay civil union. If you have a particular religious belief, then you are against a state sanctioned marriage for gays. So, let the state issue only civil union certificates for heterosexual and homosexual domestic partnerships. Let the churches decide whether to sanctify the union as a “marriage” or not. Let freedom ring, my friends.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:36 amEllen is just right on the issue. The comparasion to the evolution to women’s and black’s right to vote is spot on.
McCain is either pandering to conservative christians or he really believe’s what he’s saying and is just not as enlightened as DeGeneres on the issue.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:42 amAny chance, someone can explain to me once and for all how gay marriage poses any threat to “traditional” marriage. I never get that part!
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 amunfortunately Obama and Clinton have the same stance as McCain. All 3 are triangulating and weak on the issue. Where is a profile in courage?
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:46 amAny chance, someone can explain to me once and for all how gay marriage poses any threat to “traditional” marriage. I never get that part!
Well, my friend, it’s the same threat that having a black man as President or a woman as President or a Democrat as President. It’s an inherent truth that the institution itself is watered down if “non-traditionals” are allowed in.
/snark off
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:46 amThe neocon dogma of the Reich is very anti-feminist and misogynistic, just listen to Rush and the other blow hards on the Reich and that will give evryone an idea what they stand for.Why on earth would any women want to be associated with these neocon values is beyond my thinking.When you get religion mixed with politics you get a dogmatic thinking of barbaric ideas that cannot be changed no matter what is going on around them.The Reich is very threatened by women and the direction that feminism has taken women into the political arena and that really scares them.The Reich is very very fearful of change, we have a modern day feudal system going on in America today with this caste system where the rich get richer and we get poorer, the left has got to take control and fight for the little woman/guy and get us headed in the left direction where gender and all other forms of discrimination are put aside so we can heal this country.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am“I just believe in the unique status of marriage between man and woman.”
So says the twice-married guy.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:52 amGrampy McHomophobe sez:
My friends, I think we should have “Straight” and “Gay” drinking fountains! “Straight” and “Gay” lunchrooms! “Straight” and “Gay” hotel rooms! Let the “Gays” sit in the back of the bus, my friends!
Gay = the new Jim Crow
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:56 amI thought it was particularly funny the other day on Jon Stewart when McCain played tough guy and declared he was Al Qaeda’s worst nightmare. The audience on that show was unimpressed as well. Just the sound of crickets in the audience.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:01 amYou had better watch it. McCain is playing a clever game by sanctioning legal agreements. He has not defined what those legal agreements are or what they would cover. He may not be inconsistent, just clever doublespeak which has been the hallmark of the modern Republican party.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:01 amdbadass Says:
Any chance, someone can explain to me once and for all how gay marriage poses any threat to “traditional” marriage. I never get that part!
I haven’t figured that out either. Maybe its a threat to their hetro marriage because the detractors think it looks more fun? /shrug
If you don’t like gay marriage, then by all means,don’t marry a gay.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:04 amIn 2007, McCain said he was opposed to New Hampshire’s bill legalizing civil unions for same-sex couples. “If I were a citizen of New Hampshire, I would oppose it,” he said. “Anything that impinges or impacts the sanctity of the marriage between men and women, I’m opposed to it.”
And yet nobody can give one actual example of how gay marriage would “impinge[] or impact[] the sanctity of the marriage between men and women”
Brave New Films has put together a video on McCain’s gay marriage flip flops.
Flip flops are nothing new for the “maverick.”
http://progressiveworldreview.com
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:06 amProof positive that McAncient wouldn’t even capture the vote of the 12 percent that still support his daddy.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:09 amWhere’s Daryll?
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:17 amToo old.
Too out of touch.
Do those flip-flops go with his grey hair?
I think not.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:19 amFantastic!!!! McCain just lost a shit-ton of the Indi votes.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:24 amoctamethyl Says:
Where’s Daryll?
Who cares?
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:25 amNot that he would have anything useful or intelligent to say.
I’m looking forward to Buckie Boy weighing in on this one :)~
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:26 amAnd they called Kerry a flip-flopper?? McCain has got to be the biggest flip flopper ever. Anything for votes sucking up to the right. And the guys dumb like stone too. We don’t need another airhead for president.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:27 amWayne Says:
————————————————————–
octamethyl Says:
Where’s Daryll?
Who cares?
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:30 amNot that he would have anything useful or intelligent to say.
—–
Sure but whatever he did say would certainly be some funny ass shit
(Posted on the preceding thread)
John Sidney McMIA III
Missing in Action.
Missing in the Senate.
Missing the voting.
Missing the point.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:30 amI’m thrilled there were no gay marriages to put any of my FOUR man-woman marriages in jeopardy :)~
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:31 amLast week, Daryll of Parodyll was caught in a lie regarding the time frame of his marriage.
He hasn’t returned.
Speaking of marriages, over half end in divorce. Extra marital affairs are quite the norm. Spousal abuse (physical and mental) are frequent. Child abuse even more.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 amYep. Heterosexuals are more damaging to the “sanctity of marriage” than gays would ever be!
I keep heaing from the religous wingnuts, including McCain, about the sanctity of marriage. Those lame “interviewers” never call those caught, like McCain, about the sacrilege of desecrating that sanctity by committing adultery. I am not judging them for the act but the hypocrisy they espouse claiming the sanctity after they have blown it. They have denied themselves the right to make any judgments regarding marriage about anybody-gays included.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:37 amThe real question is…
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:43 amDid McCain dance as well as Obama?
Please elaborate John
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:44 amPoster John Kerry.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:45 amMy prediction?
You’ll be gone by 12:13pm.
Ow yeah, marriage is sacred alright. About as sacred as the lives of the American soldiers we’re wasting daily in Iraq. No reason whatsoever. Could still make sense to a senile senator ofcourse….
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:47 am#35 – John Kerry Says:
————————————————————
“It is total bullshit for gays(queers) to get married!!”
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:43 am
Sounds almost exactly like the argument against inter-racial marriages that were outlawed until the civil rights movement over-turned these anti-Ameican laws.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:48 amJohn Kerry Says:
It is total bullshit for gays(queers) to get married!!
Then don’t marry one, idiot.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:48 amThis is within God’s word.
No, it’s not. It’s in the Bible, look it up. People like you and your Pharisee ancestors keep more people from a relationship with God than any non-believer. That’s in the Bible, look it up.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:55 amDaryll, Hell isn’t real. It is sort of a concept thing. Ellen doesn’t have to sweat it.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:58 amLesbians and Gays can have a legal partnership, but they cannot be considered a married couple.
Wrong, my friend. If I decided to start a church I would marry a gay couple and call them “married”. Who are you to deny me or anyone else their choice of religious belief? I will continue to pray that you learn tolerance and what true discipleship is.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:00 pmIt enrages me that out of pettiness,racism,sexism,stubbornness and hurt feelings that the Democrats are committing to vote for this man if their candidate loses,if John McCain wins we all lose.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:08 pm“per biblical principles, marriage is between a man and a woman” and per biblical principles, (which is suspect, since the Bible was writen by men) marriage is forever.
McCain thinks those principles about marriage being forever can be broken if the money of another woman is important to his political aspirationa.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:09 pmsorry, typo. should be aspirations!
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:10 pmDaryll Says:
Per biblical prinicples, marriage is between a man and woman. Lesbians and Gays can have a legal partnership, but they cannot be considered a married couple.
Quote that exact scripture for us, Darryl
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:11 pmDaryll, that great big book of everythin had some stuff to say about shellfish, but you told me I was allowed to ignore that part. What gives?
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:12 pmDaryll Says:
Either you are for God or against him.
hahahahahahahahaha
George,is that you?
hahahahahahahahaha
Hilarious
Still waiting on that scripture, Daryll……
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:14 pmDaryll Says:
Either you are for God or against him.
Except when there are raw oysters and shrimp cocktails involved apparantly
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:16 pmDaryll. Come on. You’re trying to convince me that an all knowing, all powerful God, would condemn one of his children to Hell for being gay?
If you think about it, would anybody really choose to be gay with all the societal obstacles?
If some people are actually born gay, wasn’t it God that created them that way in the first place?
And if you don’t believe that people are born gay, consider this:
You are an imperfect human, but even you would have the capacity to forgive your wife or child, if they admitted to you that they were gay. You mean to tell me, that your all powerful, all loving God, doesn’t have that same capacity?
The bigotry against gays is a human, homophobic invention that has been attributed to God. You need to think about it logically, because your discrimination against gays is what really saddens an all loving God.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:17 pmSo does this mean Daryll is NOT spending the weekend in Cabo with Trajan?
Or is he logging in from the resort?
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:17 pmIs The Performance Artist Known as Daryll™ serious with this answer?
Scripture that answers a different question than was asked (about divorce, not marriage) and instead reiterates the Genesis creation myth?
Says NOTHING about marriage. Daryll’s act is growing stale.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:23 pmespecially when he doesn’t damn anyone to hell anymore. Damn I miss that part.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:25 pmDaryll jokes
Either you are for God or against him.
Well, mark me down as on the against side, thanks.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
4?Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,
So how in the hell do you twist that to mean that a man trapped in a woman’s body can’t reverse that?
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:28 pmDaryll are you being selective again about the parts you like and the ones you don’t. I thought you were either with the big cheese or not?
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:28 pmOn the plus side, she won’t have to spend eternity with peabrains like you, Reverand Hagee, and that idiot troll John Kerry.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:29 pmHow many times do I have to tell you Daryll. There is no such thing as Hell!!
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:31 pmThere are over 40 versions of the bible you use. When you post all for versions of that passage we’ll get back to you.
Hey Daryll what if your imaginary version of heaven is really the imaginary version of hell to Muslims and you spend eternity with them laughing at you.
Oh I forgot your imaginary sky fairy is better than their imaginary sky fairy.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 pmAll you rapturists leading this country into armageddon should be tried for treason. Oh and have I told you lately where you can shove that bible Daryll?
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:38 pmThere goes Daryll, once again substituting his own shallow, fearful judgment for God’s.
Daryll says, “Per biblical prinicples, marriage is between a man and woman.”
A reasonable TPers asks Daryll for scriptural proof. Daryll produces a quote about DIVORCE but nothing about MARRIAGE. He still has never shown us the biblical text that says “marriage is between a man and a woman”.
Daryll needs new writers or a new manager or some kind of career make-over. I’ve been saying this for weeks.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:39 pmI’m only thinking of your long-term career, Daryll, mi amigo.
Maybe you can poach someone off of Colbert’s writing staff? They know how to pull off a parody.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:41 pmDaryll. your whole premise is based on the scriptural passages being the word of God and not the construct of men from hundreds of years ago formulating laws that they wanted obeyed.
Please convince me that the scriptures that you want to use to limit my liberty, are attributable to God and not some forefather that wanted to use the idea of God to promote the legitimacy of his own agenda.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:41 pmRalph, even if Daryll is “real” those evangelical ministers know less about theology than you do. That’s why they have to go with “the literal translation” crap because they don’t have any real instruction on what it all means. At least Catholic priest actually have to study what they’re going to tell their flock.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 pmdbadass Says:
How many times do I have to tell you Daryll. There is no such thing as Hell!!
Sit in the traffic I did this morning, then tell me there is no such thing as hell.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:44 pmDaryll Says:
Quote that exact scripture for us, Darryl
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
Matthew 19:3-4
This talks about divorce and no where states marriage is only between a man and woman, try again
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:47 pmI’ll piggyback on Shaynes point: If Daryll was told by Muslims that he were going to Hell for being a Christian and they could prove it with passages from the Koran, would he knuckle under and become compliant?
And if he lived in a Muslim community and they told him his Christian livestyle was offensive and prohibited (based on the teachings of the Koran) would he be greatful for the good intentions to save his sole or would he resent the infringement of his liberty based on fiction.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:52 pmOh, I can “except” (sic) that your interpretation of the below cited passage is one of exclusivity (i. e. anything not specifically mentioned is forbidden) but I don’t see it that way.
I have no intention or interest in “defeating” God’s word. I do have an interest, however, in understanding it, and I know from study and contemplation that a thrice-translated ancient document is going to present some problems when it’s taken literally. The Truth of it tends to get lost in the quirks of time and language and it can end up meaning whatever you want it to mean if you hold it up to the light the right way.
All that aside, Daryll, you STILL haven’t provided us with a scriptural text of God’s Word that says gay marriage is forbidden, as you implied earlier.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:52 pmEvery word is flawless?
COOL! I’m gonna go out a buy me a slave!
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:53 pmI think Daryll is trying to put words in God’s mouth.
Kinda like his crap about “president elect Huckabee”
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:54 pmProven liars should not be believed, Daryll.
That includes you.
Daryll Says:
Proverbs 30:5-6
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
______
The Bible is not God’s words. He neither wrote the books nor translated them. Just because a book that was written by men SAYS it’s “God’s word” doesn’t actually make it God’s word.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:55 pmAnd where does it say his wife has to be a woman Daryll?
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:57 pmDaryll. Christians make up about 20% of the world’s population. About 1.5 billion.
So your all loving, all powerful God that created and rules over us all, is condemning the other 5 billion of his children to eternal hell.
Don’t you ever question a track record like that?
If that’s how you ran your household, they’d take your kids away.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:58 pmDaryll thinks god has a tape recorder and there are typists updating his word daily right before the news.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:59 pmHey Daryll what happened to Christian music artist Stephen Curtiss Chapman. His son ran over his daughter with the family SUV and killed her. Since everything is God’s will to you people and not a tragic accident what did he do wrong. Wasn’t he singing loud enough for you ignorant bastards?
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:01 pmRucerious, if you have male organisms, you are a male.
You mean we are male because we are inhabited by little male creatures? Seriously, Daryll, what is a person with both male and female organs/genitalia? Or a person with male genitalia and female chromosomes? And who do they have to marry according to your limited dogma?
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:02 pmHey Daryll, you better start preparing for all your leaders to spend their eternity in prison, because that’s where they all belong. Right after they’re finished being waterboarded. “Good Christians” my a$$>
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:02 pmDaryll is here to push his “pick & choose” version of ‘c’hristianity!
Daryll ignores the words of Jesus, who said (Matthew 19:9 “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Daryll only uses the Bible to support his prejudices!
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:09 pmMore people have died over religion then any other reasons put together. Want the truth http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com We don’t need to talk about this BS. I think $5 gallon gas in important at this moment in time. Gay Marriage is so passe. Look at Canada, there system didn’t fall after legalizing gay marriage. Look at Spain, same thing. Why do we continuiously say we are progressive when in reality, we are so ass backwords. Just look at the people of WV, KEN,TENN .
Point proven.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 pmDaryll, can the Bible be flawless if it contains the following inconsistencies (there are more, BTW):
1. two versions of Creation, with different order of events
2. two versions of the 10 Commandments
3. a report that the sun stood still in the sky, stopping time for one day, rather than the earth standing still
4. Satan taking Jesus to the top of a mountain to show him the whole earth, possible only if the earth is flat
No, Daryll, the truth of the Bible is not in the historical or scientific facts. It is in the spiritual realm of God loving us and wanting us to love him and each other. The other stuff is fluff added by the human beings who wrote the stories to carry that message.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 pmDaryll at 12:34 pm
“…if you have male organisms, you are a male.”
Just a hint D: learn to use language to help deliver your argument.
*An organism is a single celled life form.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm#95 – PatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
I’m reminded of the Simpson episode in which the Judge declared: “God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion.”
Daryll has “his” view of the Bible, and any facts to the contrary will not sway him from his “pick & choose” lifestyle.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:15 pmDaryll, even YOU have to be able to see that the passage you keep citing makes no sense? The question is about divorce. That question is not answered. The “male and female” part has nothing to do with an answer to whether it is lawful for a man to divorce his wife.
I guess you’ve bought into so many Bush press conferences where the president or one of his spokespeople ignore the question and answer a different one, that you think it makes sense. It doesn’t. maybe you’re reluctant to continue the verse because it goes on to condemn DIVORCE, which would say something unsavory about many Republicans, including john McCain. Either way, it says nothing about forbidding gay marriage. As you say, D-bag, “This is simple interpretaton”(sic).
But I guess if it’s all you got, you’re gonna keep shouting it as long as it makes you feel better about your bigotry.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:15 pmDaryll, can you answer my questions in #90? MY answer is that God created diversity of people who should not oppress each other because of those differences. If God chooses to condemn gays, then he will (which I doubt). However, we should not oppress them by denying secular rights to them.
BTW, don’t be so sure that I’m not “leading a flock” – they are not just a flock of mindless sheep.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 pmDaryll. Imagine if I were a communist and you were questioning my views.
Every time you asked me a question about how effective communism is, I just responded: ‘That’s what Karl Marx says in the Communist Manifesto!’.
You’re in an ideological position where you are basing all you premises, not on logic, but what is in a book that was most likely written by man. As the Koran was written by man. As the Bhagavadgita was written by man.
If the book was really written by a perfect God, it’s perfection would withstand a basic logical examination and a following that isn’t predicated on faith alone.
You probably wouldn’t be impressed with my justification of the merits of Communism, if my only response was, “Because Marx says it’s so”.
So, why should we recognize the virtues of what the Bible says – when you can offer no proof that it is no less fictional than the sacred text of the much larger majority of the world’s non-christians?
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:19 pmThis is a spiritual test for Stephen. Do you remember Job?
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:21 pmWho? The inventor of Apple Computers? Are you trying to say that God created Adam and Steve, with Steve giving the Apple to Adam as the original sin? WOW! I have learned something.
#102 – backup Says:
Backup, Daryll has been a long-time poster here at TP, but he only seems to be interested in any subject that includes gay people. For some reason, Daryll is completely against equal rights for gey people, and he uses the Bible (very selectively) in his approach. Daryll ignores any Biblical passage that doesn’t quite support his prejudices, and he even ignores the words of Jesus in his zeal to bash gay people.
I wish you luck in your effort to reason with Daryll.
By the bye, while I don’t agree with all your opinions, there are some areas in which we do seem to see eye to eye. ;-)
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:24 pmI wish you luck in your effort to reason with Daryll.
I’m not sure that Daryll can be reasoned with. But perhaps some who read the debate between us can be.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:26 pmDaryll. This is absolutely insulting to the idea of God.
And it’s an example of how much twisting Christians are willing to do, to maintain the idea that God is controlling the day to day goings on in the world.
Try to imagine what you are saying:
God is looking down. He’s causing the girl to run behind the SUV. He’s causing the driver to mindlessly back up the SUV, over the girl, to crush her to death. All the while, our all powerful, all loving God, is thinking to himself: This will make great foder for an important lesson for Stephen.
Give it up my friend. It’s not the truth. Consider it with an open mind and realize that you’ve been sold a bill of goods to get you to behave. This is an example of where the story starts to fall apart.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 pmI wonder if Daryll’s head would explode if he found out his god was a woman.
I suspect the supposed stand of Daryll’s god against a man lying down with a man is because she, Daryll’s god, wants all that man flesh for herself.
I wonder if Daryll ever heard the adage, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 pmI’ve always loved that Job crap that some Christians sling around. God is apparently a sick fu(king trickster up there in the clouds running around killing people so he can “test our faith.” Sounds like God might be a tad insecure, don’t you think? In my opinion, all these false deities need us more than we need them. If we all simply stopped believing in them, they would cease to exist or matter.
Daryll,
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:33 pmIf God is real, and Hell is real, and you are an example of the “worthy” which means that if I go to Heaven I’ll have to hang out with dipsh1ts like you for eternity, give me Hell any day of the week.
I love Daryll with an agape kind of Christian love. I respect Daryll’s right to believe in whatever he want’s to believe.
But, here’s the caveate: Just because people have faith in their religion, it’s not okay to use religious beliefs to start infringing on other peoples liberties.
I personally believe that a common trait among monotheistic religions is for members to impose their beliefs on non-believers. I believe that is a manmade construct to increase the flock. I don’t think it is the wish of an all loving God.
God believes in free will. Let’s honor his wishes.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:38 pmDaryll Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:42 pmAre you Rapture Ready?
——-
I am not sure. What shall I wear? Is this thing casual or should I considering ironing something?
Democrat soldier. It is nice to occasionally be on the same page. I’m trying to keep an open mind and I have challenged myself to speak up in threads that I agree with, instead of just the ones I take exception with. Thanks. :)
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:43 pmJebus, You had better come and get me now.
The Rapture MUST be nigh: I’ve agreed with backup FOUR times today. On one thread.
:o/
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:47 pmHoly crap.
Make that FIVE times.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:48 pmDaryll Says:
Are you Rapture Ready?
The Rapture is a fabrication by an American preacher that has no basis in the scriptures at all. Not that I expect Daryll to know what the scriptures actually say….
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:50 pmLeftside Annie. I don’t want you to feel dirty, but I believe on some issues, we may be partners.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:54 pmThanks, backup, for showing that you do have a sensible side.
Perhaps there’s hope for you after all. ;o)
~A
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:58 pmdbadass
I asked my rightwing friend if would be armed when he was raptured? He said no, since the physical won’t be making the trip, only the spirit.
He also said he prays for the rapture to come soon.
I have come to accept his angry outbursts everytime I tell him about some recent political development. I also enjoy challanging his religious devotion, especially when it comes to caring about his fellow man. His standard way to end the discussion when he doesn’t want to hear anymore is to say he has the answer, blow the middle east to kingdom come.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:08 pmAh the old turn it into a parking lot. I love those types.
best-
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:11 pmSo God killed his child to test his spirituality? Tough break for his daughter huh. Then we should assume since your God has no qualms killing off children he wouldn’t have much problem with abortion right?
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:13 pmDaryll is Satan.
No doubt. I see the utter bullshit he posts and attributes it to a Christian person. The shit he posts is designed to make Christians look stupid and to turn people towards Satan.
He learned it from KKKarl.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:20 pmCap’n, allow me to echo the praise that has been heaped on you by some other regulars. This isn’t the first time I’ve found you sensible and your opinion stated well. It doesn’t happen often, but I welcome it when it does. You’ve made several very sound arguments to Daryll today. They’re probably impotent against his (character’s) Wall of Faith, but you’ve earned some respect here. Well done.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:39 pmDaryll Says:
Are you Rapture Ready?
What should I bring? Beer, chips, greenbean cassarole? Oh, i know. I make killer bbg ribs. One rack or two?
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:48 pm*bbg=bbq. damn fingers.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:48 pmralph. coming from you, that means alot.
We will disagree in the future and I will understand your frustration. I still believe that if we took an inventory, we would agree on much more than we disagree.
Your comments today are very kind. Thank you.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pmIgnoranceIsNotBliss
I think you may be on to something there, Tailgate Rapture Parties. Can we franchise this to those rethug christian leaders who are always looking for new ways to shear their sheep?
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:12 pmIs there any question that the Ellen viewers are, in general, sympathetic to her ?
Was there any question that gay marriage would come up in the interview.
Was there any question that McCain would be in the unenviable situation of saying he opposed gay marriage which set him on a collision course with any sympathy to Ellen ?
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:14 pmDaryll jokes:
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:22 pmEither you are for God or against him.
Daryll, if ‘heaven’ is packed with hateful, inbred, simple, retarded folks like you, I’d rather burn in ‘hell’ any day.
Not that heaven or hell exist…
Moron
Has St D added me to the against God list yet?
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:29 pmDaryl says: “Are you Rapture Ready?”
No, but I have an older tv that’s cable ready.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:36 pmTo McIIIrds credit he did NOT call Ellen a trollopyc*nt!
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:38 pmMoses wrote Leviticus, the third book of the Bible. Leviticus 18:22 says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” In John 5:46-47, Jesus Christ says, “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” Thus Jesus Christ taught that homosexual acts were, are, and ever will be displeasing to God, who never changes. I believe that Christ died to pay for all of the sins – including homosexual acts – of those He loves. What God defines as sin is indeed sin, regardless of the consensus of humanity.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:41 pmmks,
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pmI see your point.
But please, do explain to me about the shellfish sin.
That one always confuses me.
Especially since I really, really, REALLY, love me some Alaskan King Crab legs (and a nice Chardonnay).
mks. I appreciate that you can quote the Bible, but what argument can you offer that the Bible is really the word of God?
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:52 pmOh, and I’ve recently had an argument with my mother, a born again right wing Catholic. I may have insulted her. Am I to be stoned now?
After all, it is written by Moses.
Although I am being a smart A$$, I’m also serious. Why do you (and Daryll of parodyll) pick and choose from Leviticus?
And what are the two most important Commandments of God? Per Jesus.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 pmDaryll at 12:34 pm
“…if you have male organisms, you are a male.”
I think what Daryll really ment was …if you have
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:56 pmmale orgasms, you are a male. Since we all know
that his mostly “gay” participation at TP is the
sure sign of his projection.
I think (but I’m not sure) these were the original commandments:
Here now, quoting from the Bible, is the covenant the Lord makes with Moses:
Exodus 34:10-26
Then the LORD said:
1. I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the LORD, will do for you. Obey what I command you today.
2. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.
3. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you.
4. Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles [That is, symbols of the goddess Asherah].
5. Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
6. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices.
7. And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.
8. Do not make cast idols.
9. Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
10. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.
11. Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck.
12. Redeem all your firstborn sons. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
13. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.
14. Celebrate the Feast of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year [That is, in the fall].
15. Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD, the God of Israel.
16. I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the LORD your God.
17. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.
18. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.
19. Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.
The reading immediately concludes with Exodus 34:27-28 which I quote, “Then the LORD said to Moses, ‘Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.’ Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant–the Ten Commandments.”
According to Exodus these are the real Ten Commandments of the Bible.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:02 pmPerhaps I am wrong, but in reading the Bible, it seems to me that God gave commandments specifically to ancient Israel which He did not give the entire human race. For example, the ancient Israelite had to wear a blue fringe around the hem of his garment and refrain from Alaskan King Crab (the Chardonnay would have been OK). In ancient Israel, by God’s command to them, sabbath-breaking, homosexual acts, adultery, blasphemy, etc. were punishable by death.
Unless you are a Jew who feels he must keep these particular commandments, however, go for the crab legs. In Leviticus 18:24-30, God states that the commands against a specific set of sexual sins listed in that chapter (including homosexual acts) apply to other nations as well as to ancient Israel. It is clear from New Testament writings that such acts are NOT punishable by death for those not living in ancient Israel, but that God, who does not change, still considers them to be sins, which can only be washed by the blood of Jesus Christ: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” (I Corinthians6:9-11)
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:18 pmDRxJ Says:
mks,
I see your point.
But please, do explain to me about the shellfish sin.
That one always confuses me.
Especially since I really, really, REALLY, love me some Alaskan King Crab legs (and a nice Chardonnay).
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
You might want to check out the punishment for eating shellfish if you’re really concerned.
And, you might find this site interesting…
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
if you want to work on that confusion.
Christians are hugely grateful that animal sacrifice is no longer required. Christ crucified is considered the perfect sacrifice ending the need for animal sacrifice.
Generally speaking, Jewish laws are divided into four categories: moral, ceremonial, dietary, and agricultural.
The New Testament never abrogates the moral laws of the Old Testament. Sexual sins in the Old Testament are still sexual sins in the New Testament. Fortunately, in the NT one can repent and receive forgiveness for all sins including adultery and homosexuality. However, repenting means that one “turns from” the sin. This also means that one must want to repent and that one must have faith in Christ Jesus.
Christ actually raises that standard for moral behavior into the stratosphere when he says in Matthew that if a man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery in his heart. This is a rather steep standard. With this remark Christ makes it clear that He’s interested in both action and attitude.
To bit it’s save to assume that if he meant what he said about adultery he certainly meant what He said when he said that a husband and a wife are one flesh in marriage – a natural marriage – in Matthew 19 as Daryll has previously noted. Only a man and a woman can be one flesh
While moral laws are never abrogated in the NT, the dietary laws are another thing. The Apostle Peter wanted to make the new Christians become Jews to become Christians. Peter and the Apostle Paul had some degree conflict over this demand, and Paul said some strong things to Peter. Peter had to be miraculously told that it was Ok to eat those things that had been unclean under Jew law.
OTOH, there are reports that shrimp raised in China are/were raised in sewage. So, the advice to not eat shellfish might still be good advice.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:27 pmmks. I’m impressed by your post, and you seem reasonable. But, don’t you see how someone like me might see this interpretation as too convoluted to be the product of perfection or Godliness?
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:27 pmbitblt:
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:31 pmMost shrimp on the US market are farmed in other areas of Asia than China. Trusat me on this one. The sewage isn’t the issue. It is the destruction of the mangrove habitat to accomadate the shrimp farms. Spare me all the bible chichat. Laws are made by man for man. So if a few loving gay couples wish to get married so be it. Have at it my gay friends. I’ll bring the shellfish!
backup – Thank you for your kind words, and I can see your point. There is a simplicity in Christ Jesus, but I often fail to express it. The commands that God (whom I believe is the same as Jesus Christ) gave to ancient Israel showed enough about His holiness and righteousness that they should convince any honest person that he falls very short of such a standard, and thus needs great mercy.
In the early days of the Christian church, some people began teaching that Gentiles must keep the law of Moses in order to be saved. Paul argued against this, and when the argument got very heated, the contenders decided to go to Jerusalem so that the apostles of Jesus Christ could weigh in on the subject. The apostles agreed with Paul, and the apostle Peter said the law of Moses was a standard that ancient Israel had also failed to meet: “Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” (Acts 15:10-11)
Peter did not say that the law unto ancient Israel was wrong or to be disregarded; he simply said we could not keep it and thus needed grace. It is correct to say that Jesus Christ teaches redemption from all manner of sins – greed, homosexual fornication, heterosexual fornication, self-righteousness, cruelty, etc. – because of His sacrificial death. It is incorrect, however, to say that He did not teach against actions which Moses designated as sin, since He endorsed the words of Moses.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:56 pmGod did NOT write the Bible. Period.
It was written by fallible men - 2,000+ years ago, and then edited again and again and again and again over a period of centuries – by legions of men who always had their own agendas.
As far as I’m concerned, quoting the Bible (as it exists today) to prove anything makes about as much sense as using a comic book to prove that Superman can be killed by green kryptonite. Ridiculous.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:04 pmbackup Says @ 136
In reading your post I envision 30-40 ancient world neocon types coming up with this to retain control over their fellow man.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:05 pmLeftside Annie Says:
God did NOT write the Bible. Period.
.
.
.
As far as I’m concerned, quoting the Bible (as it exists today) to prove anything makes about as much sense as using a comic book to prove that Superman can be killed by green kryptonite. Ridiculous.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Couldn’t this be said about every document ever written?
Worldview seems to be key here. You believe it or you don’t.
Among Conservative Christians it’s usually said that people will believe something. If they, the people, don’t believe in God they find something else – like deifying nature or pursuing pleasure – in which to believe, and this forms their worldview.
This is what the Bible says about scripture.
Apostle Paul remarking in
I Timothy 3
http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2%20Timothy+3&version=31
Do you have another source LA that “thoroughly equips you for every good work?”
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:23 pm“Do you have another source LA that “thoroughly equips you for every good work?”
I certainly do. A brain!
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:26 pmdbadass Says:
“Do you have another source LA that “thoroughly equips you for every good work?”
I certainly do. A brain!
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:26 pm
You’re the TinMan, right?
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:12 pmmks. I’m not a believer. And I don’t really see divinity in the story, I’m respect that effort you’ve put into the study of it.
I’m curious – how did you come about the knowledge? Self study? Other?
I’m interested in all religions, but I don’t believe I have the inclination to get at the level of detail that you are at with Christianity.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:49 pmLet me try that one again: Although I don’t see divinity in the story, I respect the effort you’ve put into the study of Christianity.
I meet alot of Christians, but not many that have read the Bible.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:51 pmAfter listening to the discussion for awhile, I have observed the following.
1. There a great many reading this thread that, although the web site is called “thinkprogress”, appear not to have done there homework concerning homosexuality. Many carry the argument “It is right because I want to do it”, or “you are not going to tell me it is wrong.”
2. While it is easy to give quick opinions for what you want to do, sometimes you need to stop and think, “who says what is right or not?”. I have known people who feel that child-porn/rape is good, and they would defend that position – at least till it is proven and they are in jail.
3. Many who want to argue have not grappled with the most important question: Is there a God who has created our world and revealed Himself through His word. And if there is one, He should have our respect and worship. We should seek out honestly and seriously what His word says.
Some of the comments written have been from people who have rejected God and His Word. But I appeal to those of you who are open minded about life to approach this subject seriously. For if there is a God, and we are trying to tell Him that He is wrong, or that we don’t understand why some things are the way they are, then we can come off looking like a child yelling at the wind to stop blowing because they don’t like it. I challenge you to not yell, criticize, demean, or belittle myself or others who raise this question. After all, if you really desire to beocme ones who are progressive in your thinking, why not make sure your facts are right.
4. I listen to many “Christian” responses that quote scripture that appears not to be the best passage. When those people speak, there are numerous responses, but no serious looking deep into the real issues. I have debated about listing all the scriptures that speak about homosexuality and how God condemns it. I chose not to list them here because a) those who are seriously looking for learning the truth of the situation would know that they can Google to find those passages in the Bible. b) those who have no respect for God and the Bible will have contempt for those scriptures as well as this response.
I challenge all intelligent readers to give serious STUDY to this matter. For centuries upon end, people have believed in God, and people who have doubted. But just because one doubts, does not mean that God does not exist. My grandfather didn’t believe in God and was almost a die heart atheist. He was a progressive thinker – researching electric cars that he could build (in 1960’s), interested in solar power and found many ways to harness it (even purchased a commercially built oven back in the 1950’s – did you know they made them?).
While we thought he had ruled out God from his thoughts, we learned that his real beef with Christians was from the lack of real knowledge some of them could give him for his answers. He really was deep down, searching for answers that those he knew did not know the answer. He lived till almost 100 years old (mind still intact – He was still working on clocks – with all their small parts – up till his early 90’s when arthritis set in.)
In his mid 90’s, he finally revealed his questions that had never been answered. Many of the questions and conclusions he learned were from assumptions about God or the Bible that he found out was in error. From his mistaken or poorly researched examination of the Bible, he had carried false conclusions all his life – but he was progressive enough in his thinking to realize that he needed to keep searching to make sure about God.
What does all this have to do with homosexuality and our culture’s fascination and acceptance with it? I challenge you to search through the Bible to find out what God says about it. Be progressive in your thinking to seek out honestly and openly (no hidden agenda’s) people who will give you true answers. Be progressive in your thinking to reject those who quickly lash out against Christians and their view of this subject. We live in a world that is quick to point to those who promote hate, and sadly there is much hate being promoted on both sides. But keep looking – look as if the destiny of your soul depends upon it. Look to the extent that you can say with certainty that you can know of what your are speaking – having studied from informed, knowledgeable Christians who will patiently help you.
Be weary of those who want to limit your thinking to just what they are saying and their opinions.
Be progressive in your thinking and be grounded in reality – not opinions.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:41 pm__________
Guido the Loving OBGYN Says:
Many Republicans feel that condoning gay marriage is a sin. Yet the same people also agree that the State Institution of marriage is different than the Biblical definition of marriage that drives their moral feelings. In the end these people are just confused. They don’t like gay people and they use this venue to express it.
__________
There are many people who oppose gay marriage and don’t dislike gay people.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:37 amupright left Says:
There are many people who oppose gay marriage and don’t dislike gay people.
—
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:42 amIf they don’t have any problem with gay folk, what’s their beef with gay marriage?
bitblt Says:
You’re the TinMan, right?
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:45 am____
I believe he was the one in search of a brain. You must have misread. I myself have a large and complex one which allows me to think critically and for myself. No need for any dudes in funny outfits to tell me what to think or how to act.
When McCain calls the union between a man and a woman unique, which of his marriages is he talking about–the first one or the rich trophy wife? If you get to do it more than once, it ain’t particularly unique.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:50 amClinton has taken Kentucky and Obama is right there in Oregon.
The Democratic race for nomination is still very much alive – and most likely to be decided by superdelegates – as CNN points out clearly
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/20/primary.wrap/index.html
If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama
If you haven’t done so yet, please write a message to each of your state’s superdelegates at http://www.lobbydelegates.com
Obama Supporters:
Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it’s appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It’s that easy…
Clinton Supporters too …. !
It takes a moment, but what’s a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?! Those are really worth !
Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it’s appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It’s that easy…
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:46 am#153 AlKhidir Says:
————————————————————
When McCain calls the union between a man and a woman unique, which of his marriages is he talking about–the first one or the rich trophy wife? If you get to do it more than once, it ain’t particularly unique.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:50 am
As I stated previously, the Christians who follow the entire Bible, and don’t “pick & choose” the portions that support their prejudices, would consider Sen. McCain a sinner for violating the words of Jesus:
Matthew 19:9 “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Sen. McCain is a sinner, who has repudiated the words of Jesus. The American Taliban, the self-proclaimed ‘c’hristians will gloss over this sin of McCain’s as they vote for this sinner.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:30 am________
dbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
There are many people who oppose gay marriage and don’t dislike gay people.
—
If they don’t have any problem with gay folk, what’s their beef with gay marriage?
________
Allowing gay marriage means society approves of something they consider to be fundamentally wrong.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:33 amdbadass Says:
bitblt Says:
You’re the TinMan, right?
____
I believe he was the one in search of a brain. You must have misread. I myself have a large and complex one which allows me to think critically and for myself. No need for any dudes in funny outfits to tell me what to think or how to act.
bit thinks both you and he got it wrong. As soon as bite hit the submit button, “TinMan” didn’t seem right. bit didn’t check but he thinks ScareCrow was the one wanting to get a brain, and TinMan was the one wanting to get a heart.
So,
you’re the TinMan, right?
No need for any dudes in funny outfits to tell me what to think or how to act.
Are you talking about a Pride parade?
Many on TP are fond of saying that Fascism will come to the U.S. carrying a cross.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:23 amTo bit it looks like Fascism will come to the U.S. in a Pride parade.
________
Democrat Soldier Says:
Sen. McCain is a sinner, who has repudiated the words of Jesus. The American Taliban, the self-proclaimed ‘c’hristians will gloss over this sin of McCain’s as they vote for this sinner.
________
All the candidates are sinners. McCain’s sin is hardly a reason for legitimizing another.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 am#156 – upright left Says:
———————————————————-
“Allowing gay marriage means society approves of something they consider to be fundamentally wrong.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:33 am
Actually, it would mean that society approves of something they consider to be fundamentally right!
If society approved of gay marriages, then said society would be doing it to extend equal rights to everyone, and not just for some.
The logic of your previous statement is flawed. If the majority of society approves of something, how can it be “wrong” to that majority?
Now, if you said “Allowing gay marriage means the majority of society approves of something the minority considers to be fundamentally wrong” then your logic would be correct.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:05 am#157 – bitblt Says:
———————————————————–”Many on TP are fond of saying that Fascism will come to the U.S. carrying a cross.
To bit it looks like Fascism will come to the U.S. in a Pride parade.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:23 am
Well, nobody has ever accused you of having 20/20 vision, bitbit! ;-) (Yes, that’s a joke!)
The definition of “fascism” is as follows:
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \?fa-?shi-z?m also ?fa-?si-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.
Gay people have never forcibly tried to stop people who say “I don’t agree with your lifestyle”. We just want people to stop telling lies about gay people, as does the anti-gay groups when they compare pedophilia exclusively with gay people. It’s always been the ‘c’hristians who tried to forcibly stop anyone from saying “I’m gay and that’s OK”.
I think that bitbit has crossed bitbit’s wires in bitbit’s definition of “fascist” and “fascism”.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:22 am#159 – upright left Says:
———————————————————–
“All the candidates are sinners. McCain’s sin is hardly a reason for legitimizing another.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Now you’re being disingenuous, in trying to claim that my statement is supposed to legitimize sin.
I’m pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of the ‘c’hristians who use one Biblical verse to lambast a group of people, while completely ignoring another verse (two verses later) that paints “their” presidential candidate in a less-than perfect light.
These self-described ‘c’hristians claim to follow the entire Bible, yet they pick & choose the verses that support their prejudices while ignoring other verses that are inconvenient to them.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:26 amupright left Says:
Allowing gay marriage means society approves of something they consider to be fundamentally wrong.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:27 am—-
O what. Many feel that it is fundamentally wrong to not provide universal healthcare as well as many other things. What about the many people who support gay marriage? “Some people don’t like it” seems a lame argument against gay marriage. A lot of people don’t like abortion but it still is the law of the land, correct?
I have no idea what that “o what” is?
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:28 ambitblt:
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:34 amI was thinking more of those funky hat and garb of the clergy but now that you mention it, I don’t need to be told how to act or think by pride marchers either and I sure as hell don’t need to be told how to think or act by clergy in funny garb behind closed doors engage in the very acts they condemn. So how does bitbly feel about Bishop Robinson?
Democrat Soldier Says:
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Now you’re being disingenuous, in trying to claim that my statement is supposed to legitimize sin.
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May 23rd, 2008 at 10:26 am
Ok…? But bit is not being disingenuous. bit thinks you’re trying to legitimize sin.
However, this can get really plain really quickly.
Do you believe Christ meant what he said in Matthew in 19 where he answered a question by saying that a man and a woman are one flesh in a marriage?
Do you believe that this relationship – one flesh – only applies to a man and a woman as Christ said?
As to the using this same scripture to describe adultery as a sin…both you and bit will be well prepared if TP ever post anything about the pain, deception, heartbreak, and damage caused by the sin of adultery.
How does DS know that McCain hasn’t been forgiven of the sin of adultery?
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:12 amdbadass Says:
bitblt:
I was thinking more of those funky hat and garb of the clergy but now that you mention it, I don’t need to be told how to act or think by pride marchers either and I sure as hell don’t need to be told how to think or act by clergy in funny garb behind closed doors engage in the very acts they condemn. So how does bitbly feel about Bishop Robinson?
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:34 am
bitbly??? That may have some possibilities. Sounds rather British, wouldn’t you say?
As we Conservative Christians say, bit would not fellowship Mr. Robinson. To bit’s limited knowledge this man has done great harm to the Episcopal USA church. The three closest Episcopal churches declared sometime ago that they would no longer send money to Episcopal USA. It seems in Robinson’s actions one can see a true agenda item from so openly promoting homosexuality in the U.S. – to directly attack Christianity.
This is what so called same-same marriage is – an attack on Christianity.
Interestingly abortion denies the universal directive in Genesis 1:28 “…be fruitful and multiply…,” while
so called same-same marriage denies the “one flesh” qualifier in Genesis 3 ( Gn 2 or 3.)
We, mankind, really don’t want to be replicating the “…as in the Days of Noah…” in opening verses of Genesis 6.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:22 amSee the thing is a whole lot of us aren’t overly concerned what you conservative christians do or do not like. It isn’t really our business. Your free to think/do whatever you want just as we are. Have fun. Do your thing and leave the rest of us to do our own thing. Why do you seem to suggest that the laws/policies of man should have anything to do with your own belief system or that of a convoluted book which only a certain segment of the poplulation bothers with?
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:28 amoh yeah sorry about the bitbly thing. It is disrespectful to fail to address another properly. You can be assured it was unintentioned
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:29 am_________
Democrat Soldier Says:
Actually, it would mean that society approves of something they consider to be fundamentally right!
If society approved of gay marriages, then said society would be doing it to extend equal rights to everyone, and not just for some.
The logic of your previous statement is flawed. If the majority of society approves of something, how can it be “wrong” to that majority?
Now, if you said “Allowing gay marriage means the majority of society approves of something the minority considers to be fundamentally wrong” then your logic would be correct.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:05 am
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I don’t live in California and haven’t read extensively about that case, but what I’ve read indicated that the people had voted against gay marriage and judges overturned it. That’s obviously not the choice of the majority of society.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:41 amdbadass Says:
See the thing is a whole lot of us aren’t overly concerned what you conservative christians do or do not like. It isn’t really our business. Your free to think/do whatever you want just as we are. Have fun. Do your thing and leave the rest of us to do our own thing. Why do you seem to suggest that the laws/policies of man should have anything to do with your own belief system or that of a convoluted book which only a certain segment of the poplulation bothers with?
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:28 am
Thanks so very much! That’s…so…ah… American of you, and I completely understand what you’re saying. bit even agrees.
But to make an example of the downside of what you’re saying consider this. Suppose someone wants to open a brothel( overtly or covertly just consider it legal) next to my kid’s school. They own the land. They plan to make it “discreet,” and as is often said on TP, don’t participate if you don’t believe in it. And as you said
Have fun. Do your thing and leave the rest of us to do our own thing.
Seems to bit, when there is a conflict of values and one value will prevail, has to prevail, then it’s best to be on the side of the value that causes the society to be worth preserving.
So-called same-same gender marriage makes the U.S. less worth preserving.
It diminishes the nation.
It doesn’t enlarge the nation.
This is bit’s opinion.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:43 amDemocrat Soldier Says:
Now you’re being disingenuous, in trying to claim that my statement is supposed to legitimize sin.
I’m pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of the ‘c’hristians who use one Biblical verse to lambast a group of people, while completely ignoring another verse (two verses later) that paints “their” presidential candidate in a less-than perfect light.
These self-described ‘c’hristians claim to follow the entire Bible, yet they pick & choose the verses that support their prejudices while ignoring other verses that are inconvenient to them.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:26 am
No, I’m simply saying we are going to elect a sinner. That doesn’t mean we have to throw out every prohibition against sinful behavior. Anyone who claims to successfully follow the Bible without error is no Christian. Having laws that prohibit legitimizing a lifestyle that is fundamentally opposed to the beliefs of the majority doesn’t mean that everyone who supports the law claims to be sinless.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:51 amHow does treating all with dignity and respect diminish a nation?
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:00 pmdbadass Says:
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upright left Says:
Allowing gay marriage means society approves of something they consider to be fundamentally wrong.
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O what. Many feel that it is fundamentally wrong to not provide universal healthcare as well as many other things. What about the many people who support gay marriage? “Some people don’t like it” seems a lame argument against gay marriage. A lot of people don’t like abortion but it still is the law of the land, correct?
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:27 am
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If a majority feel that way about universal healthcare, then we will have it. Of cousre, then you run into variations on how that should be accomplished, which is the current delimma. A majority may not agree with abortion, but, if so, that majority chooses not to do anything about it. That’s likely how gay marriage will also come to be permitted. Until then, if the majority feels that gay marriage is morally wrong and chooses to vote against it, that should be the law.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:01 pmSo if the majority votes to decriminalize marijuana or allow death with dignity provisions than they too should be the law as well.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm________
dbadass Says:
So if the majority votes to decriminalize marijuana or allow death with dignity provisions than they too should be the law as well.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
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Yes.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 pmBit – you’re free to use your 2,000 year old book of hoary tales to “prove” whatever you want.
However, I’m free to scoff – and, believe me — I will.
Your book has absolutely no basis whatsoever in scientific fact, therefore, IMO, it cannot be used to prove anything.
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:22 pm#171 – upright left Says:
———————————————————– “Having laws that prohibit legitimizing a lifestyle that is fundamentally opposed to the beliefs of the majority doesn’t mean that everyone who supports the law claims to be sinless.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:51 am
OK, I think I know what you’re saying. Just because self-proclaimed ‘c’hristians “pick & choose” one verse to perpetuate discrimination against a minority, doesn’t mean they’re massive sinners for ignoring a verse (2 verses after the one they chose) that says any divorce for other than infidelity is a sin.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:48 am#165 – bitblt Says:
————————————————————”Do you believe Christ meant what he said in Matthew in 19 where he answered a question by saying that a man and a woman are one flesh in a marriage?
Do you believe that this relationship – one flesh – only applies to a man and a woman as Christ said?
How does DS know that McCain hasn’t been forgiven of the sin of adultery?”
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Nitnit is answerintg question that Jesus never answered. Jesus was never asked “Does Marriage ONLY apply to one man and one woman? What about all the ‘godly’ people in the Bible that had multiple wives? What about the men who NEVER got married? Are they sinners?”
As for Sen. McCain, his divorce was not based on grounds of infidelity, so based on the words from Jesus, McCain is an adulterer.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:52 am#178 – My pardon, I didn’t spell-check before I hit “send”. I did not mean to refer to Bitbit as “Nitnit”.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:53 am_______
Democrat Soldier Says:
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#171 – upright left Says:
“Having laws that prohibit legitimizing a lifestyle that is fundamentally opposed to the beliefs of the majority doesn’t mean that everyone who supports the law claims to be sinless.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:51 am
OK, I think I know what you’re saying. Just because self-proclaimed ‘c’hristians “pick & choose” one verse to perpetuate discrimination against a minority, doesn’t mean they’re massive sinners for ignoring a verse (2 verses after the one they chose) that says any divorce for other than infidelity is a sin.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:48 am
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Sorry, but you’ve misinterpreted what I said. I said we are going to elect a sinner no matter who we elect. That doesn’t mean we have to throw out every prohibition against immorality. It would be nice if we had a sinless candidate. Unfortunately, no such person exists.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:27 pmOk if “god” created man in his image, why are there any gay men at all? Are you gonna tell me he makes people sinful from birth so they can live in “Hell” on earth? Or is it to test their faith for life. If so why them and not other people? Does he play favorites? Are the non-gay people not worthy of his test or are they perfect? If they are perfect were they made to torture the gay and treat them as something that should be killed. I seem to remember god saying “Thou shalt not kill” and when he contradicted himself and said “An eye for an eye” how would that work out with a gay person since they do things with like minded individuals.
On that “eye for an eye” topic? Does that mean that John Edwards or John McCain’s wives should have the freedom to commit adultery on them?
How can someone so omnipotent, and so involved in day to day earth activities that he would have a child killed to test someone’s faith, make so many mistakes creating men in his image and contradicting his own word?
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:11 amSorry I left out “turn the other cheek” as well in my last rant. And how does that fit into treating homosexuals like non-human things that should be discarded.
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:15 am