ThinkFast: May 29, 2008
ThinkFast: May 29, 2008
New York Gov. David Paterson (D-NY) “has directed all state agencies to begin to revise their policies and regulations to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions, like Massachusetts, California and Canada.” In a message to LGBT leaders, Paterson called the move “a strong step toward marriage equality.”
Speaking at the Air Force Academy commencement, President Bush acknowledged that his administration is “learning as we go” in Iraq. Bush offered a “nod to realities that have made the Iraq and Afghanistan wars more protracted than his administration had once expected.”
Iraqi residents of Fallujah are claiming that American troops, “whom they consider occupiers, are also acting as Christian missionaries.” They say that some U.S. Marines “at the western entrance to their city have been passing out” coins imprinted with Gospel verse “for two days in what they call a ‘humiliating’ attempt to convert them to Christianity.”
CQ writes although Attorney General Michael Mukasey was supposed to be more independent than his predecessor, he has largely been “Gonzales, take two.” “He’s just Alberto Gonzales with slightly more brains, but with no ability to say ‘no’ to the president,” said Bruce Fein, a former Justice Department official in the Reagan administration.
Rep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) is calling on Scott McClellan to testify under oath before the House Judiciary Committee about the “earth-shattering” allegations in his new book.
Reacting to McClellan’s book, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “I’m not going to comment on a book that I haven’t read but I will say” the threat from Saddam Hussein “was well understood.” She added, “I would really ask do people really believe that he was not a threat to the international community?”
Vice Adm. Kevin Cosgriff, the top U.S. Navy official in the Persian Gulf, warned that war with Iran would be “pretty disastrous,” with “echoes and aftershocks” reverberating throughout the region. Cosgriff added that “we have years” to deal with Iran’s nuclear program.
More than 100 countries “have reached an agreement on a treaty which would ban current designs of cluster bombs.” However, the United States did not join the ban, calling the controversial munitions “an integral, legitimate part of its arsenal.” A Pentagon spokesman said the bombs “have demonstrated military utility.”
Col. Morris Davis, who spoke out against the military tribunals at Guantanamo Bay, “said he was denied a medal for his two years of work building military commissions cases against terrorism suspects because he resigned and later spoke out about problems in the Pentagon’s Office of Military Commissions.”
Some of the nation’s top scientists “sharply criticized the diminished role of science in the United States” at the World Science Festival today. “They cited U.S. officials and others questioning scientific evidence of climate change, the reluctance to federally fund stem cell research, and some U.S. officials casting doubt on evolution as examples that have damaged America’s international standing.”
And finally: Dunkin’ Donuts has yanked a commercial featuring tv cooking personality Rachael Ray because of complaints that she is promoting terrorism. In the ad, “the domestic diva wears a scarf that looks like a keffiyeh, a traditional headdress worn by Arab men.” Right-wing blogger Michelle Malkin was pleased with the response, stating, “It’s refreshing to see an American company show sensitivity to the concerns of Americans opposed to Islamic jihad and its apologists.” The scarf has also been spotted on Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) daughter.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Amnesty: Time To Call Time On Guantánamo; Annual Report Scathing of US Human Rights
Amnesty International today called for Guantánamo Bay to be shut by the end of the year. The human rights organisation’s secretary general, Irene Khan, said she hoped the next US president would announce its closure on December 10 – the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
As the charity published its annual report, Khan said all three presidential candidates had pledged to shut down Guantánamo Bay. She also accused western governments of failing to do enough to tackle human rights abuses. The organisation’s annual checklist of human rights outrages showed people were still tortured or ill-treated in at least 81 countries.
Men and women also faced unfair trials in at least 54 countries and were denied free speech in at least 77, the report said.
“The reason why the Amnesty International report highlights the role of the United States is because the US is the world’s superpower and as such its performance sets the standard for other governments around the world,” Khan said.
“That’s why we have high expectations that the new US president will set a new direction that the US will engage positively with human rights and will begin first by setting its own house in order.” The report renewed criticism of the UK for its policy of deportations to unstable countries, secret terror hearings and failing to fully investigate alleged state collusion in killings in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/28/9258/
I sincerely hope they keep their promise and close Gitmo, it’s long past due.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:00 amRep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) is calling on Scott McClellan to testify under oath before the House Judiciary Committee about the “earth-shattering” allegations in his new book.
McClellan should testify under oath. That would definitely be a step in the right direction. Rove, Libby & Cheney deserve to be thrown in jail for their treason in the Valerie Plame scandal, for starters. McClellan’s Book Hits #1 On Amazon, I’m happy if this wakes up more people. Causes them to feel the outrage we have felt for so long. I’m also angry by this. He shouldn’t be allowed to profit (blood money)off of the pain and suffering of so many people; that should be a crime. I for one, will not be buying the book.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:03 amFlorida Voter’s Lawsuit Dismissed
A federal judge in Tampa has again tossed out a lawsuit filed by a Florida political consultant angry that his vote in the state’s Democratic primary will not count. Victor DiMaio’s lawsuit contended that the Democratic National Committee is discriminating against Florida voters. Judge Richard A. Lazzara agreed with the DNC, which said that it its practices are not discriminatory and political parties have a constitutional right to determine how delegates are selected in their nominating process. The party has stripped Florida and Michigan of all their delegates for bucking party rules and holding their primaries early.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/28/florida_voters_lawsuit_dismiss.html
New Ethics Law Still Doesn’t Stop Congressional Freebies
Despite a new ethics law designed to prevent lobbyists from paying for lush vacations for members of Congress, Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, and Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Calif., found a way to get someone else to pay for their travel to one of Hawaii’s top resorts. Lobbyists for an aviation industry trade group, the (AAAE), arranged to throw fundraisers for both key lawmakers at the group’s annual conference this January on Hawaii’s Big Island, amidst beautiful beaches and championship golf courses. The arrangement, first suggested by the lobbyists, allowed Inouye and Lungren to bill their trips as legitimate campaign fundraising expenses, meaning they didn’t have to pay a dime of their own money.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4949121&page=1
I’m sure no one is shocked by this. Business as usual, and politicians without ethics….
May 29th, 2008 at 9:07 amIraqi residents of Fallujah are claiming that American troops, “whom they consider occupiers, are also acting as Christian missionaries.” They say that some U.S. Marines “at the western entrance to their city have been passing out” coins imprinted with Gospel verse “for two days in what they call a ‘humiliating’ attempt to convert them to Christianity.”
Convert them to Christianity? I thought we had our head so far up Israels ass that we changed the term “Christian” to Christian-Judeo?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:09 amIf Michelle Malkin doesn’t like scarves, perhaps she might consider wrapping herself in a wet rawhide and doing a little sunbathing.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:11 am“at the western entrance to their city have been passing out” coins imprinted with…
the head of Emperor Chimpy
May 29th, 2008 at 9:12 amIraqi residents of Fallujah are claiming that American troops, “whom they consider occupiers, are also acting as Christian missionaries.” They say that some U.S. Marines “at the western entrance to their city have been passing out” coins imprinted with Gospel verse “for two days in what they call a ‘humiliating’ attempt to convert them to Christianity.”
This is going to get more and more of our troops killed. they have no business doing this, and it needs to be stopped immediately.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:14 amMore than 100 countries “have reached an agreement on a treaty which would ban current designs of cluster bombs.” However, the United States did not join the ban,
We are a rouge nation. We need to invade ourselves.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:15 amReacting to McClellan’s book, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “I’m not going to comment on a book that I haven’t read but I will say” the threat from Saddam Hussein “was well understood.” She added, “I would really ask do people really believe that he was not a threat to the international community?”
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Oh, Condi — you’re such a good little Bushbot, trying to polish the turd right up to the end. We’re just not buying it. Some of us never did, others did at first but are no longer willing to give the benefit of the doubt.
Assuming that our sole reason for our actions in Iraq was to depose a dictator who represented an imminent and grave threat to the security of the United States, why have you never answered the question, “Why Saddam?”? Even though he probably wasn’t a guy most of us would want to invite to our next party, are we to believe that he was the absolute worst despot in the world? Are we to believe that he was literally about to attack us tomorrow if we didn’t strike him today?
No. The invasion was sold to the American people by conflating Saddam with 9/11. Which was a lie by this administration — the one you continue to doggedly defend. The invasion was conducted for a variety of selfish reasons, and it damaged our own country considerably. Damage which will take years to repair.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:16 amSecretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “I’m not going to comment on a book that I haven’t read but I will say” the threat from Saddam Hussein “was well understood.”
Agreed, Condi, well understood. What is less understood are the threats to human dignity posed by the shoebox full of other tyrants you and your oil corporations enable. Would you like to talk some more about them? After all, Saddam is dead and gone, remember?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:16 amin what they call a ‘humiliating’ attempt to convert them to Christianity.”
Why must Iraqi’s hate this “freedom” we’re force-feeding them?
I know how they feel, what with all the Bibles that have found their way into EVERY hotel/motel across America.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:18 amReacting to McClellan’s book, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “I’m not going to comment on a book that I haven’t read but I will say” the threat from Saddam Hussein “was well understood.” She added, “I would really ask do people really believe that he was not a threat to the international community?”
Um, you said he was not a threat, Condi.
Go find a shoe sale, and shut the f_ck up.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:18 amIraqi residents of Fallujah are claiming that American troops, “whom they consider occupiers, are also acting as Christian missionaries.” They say that some U.S. Marines “at the western entrance to their city have been passing out” coins imprinted with Gospel verse “for two days in what they call a ‘humiliating’ attempt to convert them to Christianity.”
Yes, like every piece of shit currency got contaminated with the REICHWING bu11shit back in the McCarthy era: “In God We Trust”
May 29th, 2008 at 9:19 amAnyone who thinks McClellan is saying anything earth shattering needs to remove their head from another part of their anatomy. I don’t need the guy who was spewing the propaganda to confirm that he was spewing propaganda. I doubt most of America does either.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:20 amTo me, this is the first time in years that the NY Governor’s office is more noticeable than the mayor of NYC. Patterson is a calm, thoughtful governor with class. I can’t wait to read up on more of his legislative achievements.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:20 amThis fiasco in Iraq has lasted longer than the WWII, a time when the U.S. had no navy to speak of and a paltry land force to fight a war against the mighty Nazi blitzkrieg machine and the Nipponese Empire stretching aver hundreds of thousands of sq miles. These are the slowest learners in history, the short-bus administration (apologies to those born with learning obstacles; these guys are willfully ignorant).
The one thing they’ll never learn is that this is unwinnable; they’d have to admit a mistake, and one thing arrogant ignorance cannot do is admit error.
The phrase “weeks, not months” keeps resounding. Nearly six years later Bush offers a nod to reality”? He insults the intelligence of the world.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:21 amBush is also a threat to the international community: he possesses Weapons of Mass Destruction; he has used Weapons of Mass Destruction (cluster bombs, DU; he has initiated two wars of aggression in violation of international law; he has authorized secret detentions of foreign nationals; people have been tortured to death under his administration.
Condi, do you understand that the use of military force against a sovereign nation for the purpose of regime change is a violation of international law?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:21 amNew York Gov. David Paterson (D-NY) “has directed all state agencies to begin to revise their policies and regulations to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions, like Massachusetts, California and Canada.”
Wonderful news that New York will now recognize gay marriages from out of state!! Another great step forward for equality
The extra L is for Love.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:22 amYou mistook the cool breeze flowing over your faces as wind, when in reality it is from the entity known as McFlippityFlop and him flipping again on Telecom Immunity.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:23 amIts getting downright chilly in here.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24867416/
I watched some of the original ‘Planet of the Apes’ last weekend.
It struck me that the Apes, particularly the Gorillas, resembled the Bush administration. Gorillas were, of course, the ’security’ contingent among the Simians. All they cared about were discipline, weapons and power…sound familiar?
Now that one of the Apes, Scotty McLellan, has decided to ‘talk’, the Gorillas are getting pissed.
Nevar, I second the notion on Malkin. In fact, she resembles a pop-eyed little Ape herself. She’d look good in rawhide, though…
May 29th, 2008 at 9:23 am“New York Gov. David Paterson (D-NY) “has directed all state agencies to begin to revise their policies and regulations to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions, like Massachusetts, California and Canada.” In a message to LGBT leaders, Paterson called the move “a strong step toward marriage equality.””
Looks like New York is embracing the American model of equal rights for all people, and “special rights” for none.
Everyone knows that the ultra-radical far-right-whining ‘c’hristians (who give a bad name to true Christians and Jesus) are seeking a “special right” to enforce their prejudiced (and wrong) view of the Bible on everyone, and to deny equal rights to all.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:23 amMMMM Racheal Ray…what a tasty little lady.. I’d love to do some cooking in her oven.hehehe
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS265US265&q=Rachael%20Ray&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
Malkin on the other hand looks like a tropical fish with a hangover or a chimp whose spend too much time with micheal jacksons plastic surgeon, so I suspect she is predisposed to have animosity toward women who are genuinely cute. Lets face it, only men with unusual sexual attractions toward mummies, monkeys, or “creature from the black lagoonish” undersea life find her appealing:
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS265US265&q=michelle%20malkin&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
May 29th, 2008 at 9:23 amPresident Bush acknowledged that his administration is “learning as we go” in Iraq.
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Apparently, he and his administration haven’t learned enough if bombing Iran is still on the table. It truly boggles the mind that they still think cowboy diplomacy makes for the best foreign policy.
January 2009 can’t come soon enough.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:24 amThe wife of the Ozarks Minutemen president shoots herself and blames Mexican rapists.
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=5420
Really. And I bet she’s a registered republican who thinks Obama is a Muslim.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:24 amDarylll Says:
Wonderful news that New York will now recognize gay marriages from out of state!! Another great step forward for equality
The extra L is for Love.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:22 am
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I like this upgrade to the thoroughly obsolete Daryll 1.0.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:25 amI welcome the (L) version of Daryll to Thinkprogress.org.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:26 amWe have Feinstein and Schumer especially to than for Gonzales II. Some of us spoke out at the time, but the Democratic leadership, once again, ignored the will of the people. If we should be so fortunate as to beat McCain this fall, do we expect the Republican minority to be be so compliant in approving Supreme Court justices should the occasion arise? I think not!
May 29th, 2008 at 9:27 amDunkin’ Donuts has yanked a commercial featuring tv cooking personality Rachael Ray because of complaints that she is promoting terrorism. In the ad, “the domestic diva wears a scarf that looks like a keffiyeh, a traditional headdress worn by Arab men.” Right-wing blogger Michelle Malkin was pleased with the response.
Dunkin’ Donuts will be added to my boycott list. To buckle from pressure over a paisley scarf that Michelle has issues with is just ridulous. It is a fashion accessory, not a political statement. She is a woman in dire need of some serious help and she obviously has too much time on her hands.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:28 amGlad to be here guys.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:28 amDarylll Says:
The extra L is for Love.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:22 am
I’m feellling it, Darylll. ;)
The original Daryll is only useful for the comedic genius he inspires.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:29 amIt’s not a question of belief, baby; it’s a matter of fact. Saddam had absolutely zero ability to threaten the world. Where ya been all these years, Condi, shoe-shopping?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:29 amFreedom Rebel Says
May 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Dunkin’ Donuts will be added to my boycott list.
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I like Krispy Kreme better anyway.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:29 amAnd finally: Dunkin’ Donuts has yanked a commercial featuring tv cooking personality Rachael Ray because of complaints that she is promoting terrorism.
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So now all we have to do to promote terrorism is wear clothing reminiscent of a culture from which some people who commit acts of terror are derived?
I can only hope Malkin equally objects to Notre Dame “Fighting Irish” logowear.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:29 amMornin’ Zooey,
Is Condi picking up any special hand sanitizers on her way out of the boutique shops? Because she does keep her hands unusually clean.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:33 amRight-wing blogger Michelle Malkin was pleased with the response, stating, “It’s refreshing to see an American company show sensitivity to the concerns of Americans opposed to Islamic jihad and its apologists.”
Malkin may have over played her hand no this one. We know she’s a ridiculous clown, but even some of her cave man listeners will shake their heads on this one.
Thanks for caving so fast, Dunkin’ Donuts. :D
May 29th, 2008 at 9:33 amFreedom Rebel Says:
Dunkin’ Donuts will be added to my boycott list. To buckle from pressure over a paisley scarf that Michelle has issues with is just ridulous. It is a fashion accessory, not a political statement.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am
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OMG! I just realized – there are literally millions of statues and paintings of the Virgin Mary all over the country — nay, the world — that depict her wearing a headscarf! We cannot allow this Middle Eastern woman to be depicted wearing Middle Eastern clothing!
I can only hope Michele Malkin will urge an immediate banning on all religious paraphernalia depicting this terrorist-synmpathizing blessed mother!!!
May 29th, 2008 at 9:34 amMalkin should wear a scarf around her face. That way, her mouth would be covered up and less bullshit would spill out.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:35 am#32 misshusseinmolly Says:
Freedom Rebel Says
May 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Dunkin’ Donuts will be added to my boycott list.
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I like Krispy Kreme better anyway.
Good Morning Miss Molly. Me too, I’m partial to their creme sticks. They are my weakness..
May 29th, 2008 at 9:35 amToo bad (for us and the Iraqis) Bush didn’t listen to his own Army War College:
Instead of relying on the experts, Bush (and the war profiteers) decided to “learn as we go.” As a result, over 4,000 Americans died for Bush’s Total War Against Terror; an entire country has been bombed back to the stone age; our economy has been destroyed; and a few individuals have become increadibly wealthy.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:35 amGood morning, McWars.
I’m pretty sure hires a little guy just for sanitizer squirting. ;)
I also have a feeling that Condi spends at least an hour (3 times a day) scrubbing herself with a Brillo pad and Lava soap.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:36 amPresident Bush acknowledged that his administration is “learning as we go” in Iraq.
6 years later, this Special Ed President still can’t get off the short bus.
I learn by listening, Mr. Chimp; you should try it some time.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:37 amNow that California and Massachusetts allow gay marriage, Vermont and New Jersey allow civil unions, and New York will recognize all of these unions, we will have a lot of legally recognized gay partnerships in this country.
The rest of the states are going to have a problem maintaining the bigotry necessary to keep gay relationships outlawed, as it becomes evident that they DON’T destroy heterosexual marriages, increase pedophilia, or shred society in general. How will the homophobes keep the fear ramped up?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:38 amRNC highlights time since Obama’s last Iraq visit
‘In an effort to highlight Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-Ill.) lack of national security experience, the Republican National Committee (RNC) on Wednesday unveiled a clock on its website that is counting the days since the Democratic front-runner last visited Iraq.’
They’re daring Obama to go to Iraq with McCain for one of their photo-ops that cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. Tell you what – Obama will go to Iraq as President when Bush hands over the plane he’s been using to jet around the country trying to raise money for McCain.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:39 am“It’s refreshing to see an American company show sensitivity to the concerns of Americans opposed to Islamic jihad and its apologists.”
Sensitivity?????????
People wearing scarves are insensitive??? They are insulting the concerns of Americans … by wearing scarves which remind them of their idiotic stereotypes???? It is mean, nasty and INSENSITIVE for liberals to challenge the prejudices of ignorant Americans??? BY WEARING SCARVES???
These assertions are only effective because they are spoken in a forum which allows no opposing views to point out their obvious absurdity. The fact that Malkin get ANY airtime AT ALL, highlights the ridiculous depths to which our media has sunk.
Broadcasting uses PUBLIC ASSETS and thus should be regulated so that it serves the public good and not the tactical goals of Roger Ailes, Rupert Murdoch and the Republican party to the evident detriment of the American people as a whole.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:42 amRep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) is calling on Scott McClellan to testify under oath before the House Judiciary Committee about the “earth-shattering” allegations in his new book.
Uh huh. What ever happened to your big push to impeach Cheney? A little less talk, and a little more action please.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:42 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
The rest of the states are going to have a problem maintaining the bigotry necessary to keep gay relationships outlawed, as it becomes evident that they DON’T destroy heterosexual marriages, increase pedophilia, or shred society in general. How will the homophobes keep the fear ramped up?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:38 am
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The hatemongers will always find something they can blame on the gays, particularly as the global economy plunges deeper and deeper into the chaos of the global food crisis, the global oil crisis, the global housing crisis, the global credit crisis, and the global water crisis. And maybe an upcoming earthquake or two.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:43 amRep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) is calling on Scott McClellan to testify under oath before the House Judiciary Committee about the “earth-shattering” allegations in his new book.
Yes, and GIVE HIM TOTAL IMMUNITY.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:43 amLet him sing like a song bird. Oh, and put him under armed guards until he testifies.
He diretly implicated Bush, Cheney, Rove and Libby this morning on the Today show, saying that he was directly instructed to lie about Rove’s and Libby’s involvement in the Plame affair. Bush and Cheney conspired to commit a fraud, and in effect subvert justice.
HANG THE MUDDAFUGGAS NOW!!!!
Wasserman Schultz: Judiciary Committee Willing To Arrest Rove If He Doesn’t Testify
‘Asked by MSNBC host Dan Abrams if the committee would go far as having Rove arrested, Wasserman said it would.
“Well, if that’s what it takes,” she said. “I mean we really cannot allow the co-equal branch of government, the legislative branch, to be trampled upon by the executive branch. The founding fathers established three branches of government. We are a co-equal branch, and this is an administration that essentially has ignored and disrespected the role of the legislative branch for far too long.”‘
Does saying, “I do not recall” fifty times count as testifying?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:44 amMore than 100 countries “have reached an agreement on a treaty which would ban current designs of cluster bombs.” However, the United States did not join the ban, calling the controversial munitions “an integral, legitimate part of its arsenal.” A Pentagon spokesman said the bombs “have demonstrated military utility.”
Heh heh — they kill brown people real good — heh heh.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:46 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
The rest of the states are going to have a problem maintaining the bigotry necessary to keep gay relationships outlawed, as it becomes evident that they DON’T destroy heterosexual marriages, increase pedophilia, or shred society in general. How will the homophobes keep the fear ramped up?
Well the problem is the faux Christians believe the Bible is the undisputable word of God and they depend on that for their bigotry. They use it as an excuse for hating others. They forget the book was written by men.
Gay marriage will eventually be everywhere, but it will take time.
The extra L is for Love.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:46 amhussein toasterhead Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
Dunkin’ Donuts will be added to my boycott list. To buckle from pressure over a paisley scarf that Michelle has issues with is just ridulous. It is a fashion accessory, not a political statement.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am
———
OMG! I just realized – there are literally millions of statues and paintings of the Virgin Mary all over the country — nay, the world — that depict her wearing a headscarf! We cannot allow this Middle Eastern woman to be depicted wearing Middle Eastern clothing!
I can only hope Michele Malkin will urge an immediate banning on all religious paraphernalia depicting this terrorist-synmpathizing blessed mother!!!
Good Morning hussein toasterhead.. I’m still laughing, that is so true. I hadn’t thought of that, not enough caffeine yet. Michelle will need to alert all the Catholic Churches of there faux pas.. I can see the headlines now: Michelle Milkin takes on Catholic Church over depiction of Virgin Mary Thank you for the laugh..
May 29th, 2008 at 9:47 amThanks for posting that, Mary.
Obama regularly visiting Iraq would actually question his call for us to get out. “If you’re actually sincere about getting us out, why are you there ao often?” So kudos to Obama for remaining consistent. The RNC has a logic problem and cannot put 2 and 2 together. Of course McCain is giddy about visiting Iraq, he wants us there for another 100 years!
May 29th, 2008 at 9:47 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
The rest of the states are going to have a problem maintaining the bigotry necessary to keep gay relationships outlawed, as it becomes evident that they DON’T destroy heterosexual marriages, increase pedophilia, or shred society in general. How will the homophobes keep the fear ramped up?
Well the problem is the faux Christians believe the Bible is the undisputable word of God and they depend on that for their bigotry. They use it as an excuse for hating others. They forget the book was written by men.
Gay marriage will eventually be everywhere, but it will take time.
The extra L is for Love.
So, this REALLY means that UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IS FRONT AND CENTER as THE next issue up to be fought for.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:48 amMcWars Says:
Thanks for posting that, Mary.
Obama regularly visiting Iraq would actually question his call for us to get out. “If you’re actually sincere about getting us out, why are you there ao often?” So kudos to Obama for remaining consistent. The RNC has a logic problem and cannot put 2 and 2 together. Of course McCain is giddy about visiting Iraq, he wants us there for another 100 years!
He could be going over to keep them engaged with the promise to GET THEM THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:49 amOh crap – now Obama is saying that he might go to Iraq. I wish he wouldn’t. Unless, of course, he tells the troops that if he’s elected they will be coming home soon!
May 29th, 2008 at 9:50 amSo our soldiers in Iraq can now be compared to Jehovah’s witnesses?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:51 amNot they’re moving onto Rachael Ray.
Why is this country still taking orders from a fascist regime within, despite democratic change?
Why is this country allowing a fascist regime to micromanage the affairs of every (prominent) American, to suit its paranoid agenda?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:51 amTurley claims he thinks the Democrat leadership had foreknowledge of torture and wiretapping (data mining).
I posted this yesterday but am going to post again. Yesterday, on Randi Rhodes, Randi asked Turley why nothing has happened re: moving on the wiretapping and torture from the current Bush crime family and he said because he thoght they knew all along. They are protecting their reelection chances …
Dem or repuke, we really need to get to the bottom of this. If they knew, they are complicit and they need to be held accountable. Where do Obama and Clinton stand on this? We really need to hear their responses before the election.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:52 am#45 Zooey Says:
Rep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) is calling on Scott McClellan to testify under oath before the House Judiciary Committee about the “earth-shattering” allegations in his new book.
Uh huh. What ever happened to your big push to impeach Cheney? A little less talk, and a little more action please.
Good Morning Zooey, I hope your mother is doing well.
I agree actions speak louder than words.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:52 amhussein toasterhead Says
May 29th, 2008 at 9:43 am
The hatemongers will always find something they can blame on the gays, particularly as the global economy plunges deeper and deeper into the chaos of the global food crisis, the global oil crisis, the global housing crisis, the global credit crisis, and the global water crisis. And maybe an upcoming earthquake or two.
_____________________________________________________
Ah. Just like Hitler did with the Jews. Gotcha.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:53 amCondi, The “Well understond threat” was actually the “Well created threat” by Bush/Cheney and company. And, YES, people really did not believe he was a threat to the “international community” whatever that is suppose to imply.
Now it will be interesting to see bushco attack one of their own, who I’m sure will not be the last one to step up and reveal more of what we know to be the dirty deallings of bush/cheney before they are in front of a real Attorney General or a congress with WH support to actually investigate corruption of the bush/cheney crime government.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:53 amWell, shouldn’t our “Crusaders” be trying to convert Muslims?
“This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile. And American people must be patient,” Bush said.
And if McCain is elected, this Crusade could become our very own 100 Years War.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:55 amIraqi residents of Fallujah are claiming that American troops, “whom they consider occupiers, are also acting as Christian missionaries.” They say that some U.S. Marines “at the western entrance to their city have been passing out” coins imprinted with Gospel verse “for two days in what they call a ‘humiliating’ attempt to convert them to Christianity.”
I’m going to email Bobby Henderson right now and suggest he immediately get some Pastafarians over there a.s.a.p. to give equal promotion time to FSM in Middle East!
Seriously, these zealots then wonder why the latest Pew poll shows that the fastest growing religious group in America (and Canada I think) is “no religion at all”.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:55 amFreedom Rebel Says:Good Morning Zooey, I hope your mother is doing well.
I agree actions speak louder than words.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:52 am
She’s much better, and is now in the rehab unit re-building her strength. Thanks. :)
May 29th, 2008 at 9:56 amWhich is more pathetic – Malkin or Dunkin Donuts? She posits an insane perspective on an advertisement – and the company capitulates.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:56 amBTW, did anyone see the photo of McCain’s daughter published last week wherein she was wearing a checkered scarf herself? I don’t think it had the fringe — but neither did Arafat’s.
It is going to be fun watching the repugs implode.
Briseadh na Faire Says:
May 29th, 2008 at 9:55 am
BnF, is it just me, or is TheZoo down right now?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:57 am#48 Mary posted:
‘Asked by MSNBC host Dan Abrams if the committee would go far as having Rove arrested, Wasserman said it would.Ain’t gonna happen.
This is just posturing. She’s part of the leadership that is more interested in protecting themselves.
So much crap…so few pooper-scoopers!
May 29th, 2008 at 9:57 amRemember, Pelosi and Conyers are acting as Gatekeepers, keeping Impeachment off the table, giving the Bush Administration a free pass.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:59 amReporter Jessica Yellin, (CNN) formerly of ABC says she was pressured to present the news as favorable to Bush&CO.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:59 amZooey Says:
BnF, is it just me, or is TheZoo down right now?
May 29th, 2008 at 9:57 am
_____
I can see it…
May 29th, 2008 at 9:59 amAnd the beat goes on Says:
Turley claims he thinks the Democrat leadership had foreknowledge of torture and wiretapping (data mining).
I posted this yesterday but am going to post again. Yesterday, on Randi Rhodes, Randi asked Turley why nothing has happened re: moving on the wiretapping and torture from the current Bush crime family and he said because he thoght they knew all along. They are protecting their reelection chances …
Dem or repuke, we really need to get to the bottom of this. If they knew, they are complicit and they need to be held accountable. Where do Obama and Clinton stand on this? We really need to hear their responses before the election.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:52 am
I’ve wondered about this myself. It’s the only explanation that makes any sense. Not that any of this makes sense, of course.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:00 ammary Says
May 29th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Oh crap – now Obama is saying that he might go to Iraq. I wish he wouldn’t.
__________________________________________________
I agree with you. “Going to Iraq” has only been a political stunt for every politician who has gone. They’re treated to a dog and pony show in a sanitized environment and only get to meet carefully vetted troops who don’t complain. Nobody returns with any meaningful insight into the situation there.
However, with McCain planning to use the “871 days” since Obama went there as a campaign issue, and the right-wing blogosphere no doubt planning to spin his lack of visitation into “not supporting the troops” (yeah, the irony is overwhelming), he’ll probably have to go for political reasons. I just hope he keeps his bullsh!t detectors activated while there.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:01 amMeagan Muslim McCain; has a nice ring to it, eh?
Michelle Muslim Malkin; I like that even better.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:01 amThanks, HT. I’ll keep trying. :)
May 29th, 2008 at 10:01 amZooey Says:
Heh heh — they kill brown people real good — heh heh.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:46 am
_____
That they do. Often years after they were dropped.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:02 amSome of the nation’s top scientists “sharply criticized the diminished role of science in the United States” at the World Science Festival today. “They cited U.S. officials and others questioning scientific evidence of climate change, the reluctance to federally fund stem cell research, and some U.S. officials casting doubt on evolution as examples that have damaged America’s international standing.”
As a former Science teacher, I can tell you that the religious extremists in this country have collared the public education system to the point that Science classes are essentially irrelevent. This is causing us to go from the most educated country in the world to a Science ranking that’s in the bottom half of a 52 country survey (I think we ranked 30th). The survey included devloping nations – some of whom were ahead of us.
The good news is that the largest group of people leaving organized religion is the youngest generation (under 25). There is hope for us yet.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:02 amUnbelievable,
May 29th, 2008 at 10:04 amGreat to see you commenting again; welcome back!
hussein toasterhead Says:
Zooey Says:
Heh heh — they kill brown people real good — heh heh.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:46 am
_____
That they do. Often years after they were dropped.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:02 am
The bomb that keeps on bombing…
May 29th, 2008 at 10:05 amReacting to McClellan’s book, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “I’m not going to comment on a book that I haven’t read but I will say” the threat from Saddam Hussein “was well understood.” She added, “I would really ask do people really believe that he was not a threat to the international community?”
No, he was not a threat. How about you explain how a man with no WMDs, a third rate Army with no Navy or Airforce, under the scrutiny of the UN was a threat to anyone?
If we really wanted to liberate people in need, there’s a country called The Sudan that could use our support.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:07 amMore than 100 countries “have reached an agreement on a treaty which would ban current designs of cluster bombs.” However, the United States did not join the ban, calling the controversial munitions “an integral, legitimate part of its arsenal.” A Pentagon spokesman said the bombs “have demonstrated military utility.”
January 2009, this inhumane nightmare will finally come to an end, and America can again become a conscious, Industrialized nation that joins treaties and pacts that improve the world. I can’t wait!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:09 amunbelievable Says:
The good news is that the largest group of people leaving organized religion is the youngest generation (under 25). There is hope for us yet.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:02 am
______
I’m not sure that’s such a good thing. It seems like just a momentary tug on this false pendulum between religion and science that will eventually swing back the other way.
It doesn’t have to be that way. I will always firmly believe that religion and science can peacefully — even happily — coexist. Einstein proved that. The problem arises when people use science and religion as political wedges to further their own self-serving agenda.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:12 amZooey, it was acting weird for a bit at TheZoo. Must have been burps in WordPress.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:12 amgummitch,
I think it was the threat of weissbier. ;)
Later all!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:13 amMake sure you listen to Mike Malloy tonight – Mark Crispin Miller will be on. For those who did not see Ms. Joanne’s link to his video, this is part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX9IvrFYVfI
Watch part 1 as well if you have time.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:14 amIt turns out that the photo of Rachael Ray was shot in front of a green screen and a stock photo was imposed after the fact to look like background. Dunkin Donuts apparently thought this was a “mythical city” but the photo is of the capitol building in Salem, Oregon. And Dunkin Donuts recently closed the last of their Oregon stores.
Now we have to go to Voodoo Donuts and eat bacon donuts!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:14 amDieNowForPeace Says: I know how they feel, what with all the Bibles that have found their way into EVERY hotel/motel across America.
I recently saw a news story on how the Gideons are being denied in a new ‘multicultural’ view by certain hotel chains. There are fewer chains who are accepting and displaying the bibles because they want to stay neutral. How cool is that?
Of course the zealots are saying that this is a travesty that will lead to violence – but those are usually the ones who’ve never actually bothered to read the bibles, in all their violent glory, in the first place…
May 29th, 2008 at 10:15 amdoes this mean I can’t where my cute little bandana any more when I go to the beach? omg, it’s like the cutest thing and it matches my itty bitty flag bikini!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:15 amI finally found a picture of Rachael Ray in the offending scarf:
http://news.bostonherald.com/business/media/view/2008_05_28_Dunkin__Donuts_pulls_Rachael_Ray_ad_after_complaints/srvc=home&position=7
While I personally think it’s a rather ugly scarf (it might have looked all right without all the fringe), I honestly would have made no connection between it and terrorism if not for alarmists like Michelle Malkin.
However, MM raises a good point. We MUST be sensitive to those who are easily reminded of terrorist acts by brown-skinned people. We don’t want them to live in fear, do we? Therefore, a brown-skinned person like Michelle Malkin should make herself scarce. For sensitivity reasons, of course (snark).
May 29th, 2008 at 10:16 amZimzone Says: I watched some of the original ‘Planet of the Apes’ last weekend. It struck me that the Apes, particularly the Gorillas, resembled the Bush administration. Gorillas were, of course, the ’security’ contingent among the Simians. All they cared about were discipline, weapons and power…sound familiar?
That’s hilarious! Especially since these particular gorillas deny that they actually are apes :)
May 29th, 2008 at 10:17 amoh, come on, what’s a holiday inn without a Gideon’s bible? that’s part of the novelty along with that pen that doesn’t write well and the note pad that has three sheets left.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:18 amZimzone Says: Unbelievable, Great to see you commenting again; welcome back!
Thank you! Good to see you also!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:19 ammisshusseinmolly says:
However, with McCain planning to use the “871 days” since Obama went there as a campaign issue, and the right-wing blogosphere no doubt planning to spin his lack of visitation into “not supporting the troops” (yeah, the irony is overwhelming), he’ll probably have to go for political reasons. I just hope he keeps his bullsh!t detectors activated while there.
I’m trying to talk myself into believing that such a trip could work out okay. I suppose he could come back saying, “The commanders say the surge is working! So that means our troops can come home soon!”.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:21 amRight-wing blogger Michelle Malkin was pleased with the response, stating, “It’s refreshing to see an American company show sensitivity to the concerns of Americans opposed to Islamic jihad and its apologists.”
In a related story, Michelle Malkin has called for the banning/boycott of algebra, an arabic invention with subversive overtones. Remember x = jihad! y = islam
May 29th, 2008 at 10:23 amx + y = death to America. Why can’t you liberals see it?
toasterhead said:
It doesn’t have to be that way. I will always firmly believe that religion and science can peacefully — even happily — coexist. Einstein proved that. The problem arises when people use science and religion as political wedges to further their own self-serving agenda.
Nicely put, but you know how fine a job people like Hagee and Lie berman are doing in that respect.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:25 amhussein toasterhead Says: I’m not sure that’s such a good thing. It seems like just a momentary tug on this false pendulum between religion and science that will eventually swing back the other way.
I think that, as our “pile” of Science knowledge grows larger and larger, that it’s unlikely. Most of these kids reject religious because of all the Scientific answers we have to questions. The god of the gaps is getting smaller and smaller, therefore not gining the pendulum anywhere to swing. Much like the fact that it doesn’t swing any longer between flat Earth and spherical Earth.
It doesn’t have to be that way. I will always firmly believe that religion and science can peacefully — even happily — coexist. Einstein proved that. The problem arises when people use science and religion as political wedges to further their own self-serving agenda.
Why doesn’t it have to be that way? What’s wrong with turning to Science for answers, and other people for comfort? I haven’t been religious in years and I, like many others who share my perspective, have what we need without religion. Religion is not a need.
Actually, Einsten was not religious. He didn’t believe in a personal god and clearly explained that when he refered to “God” he was using a metaphor for what is ‘unknown’.
Reliion and Science are not compatable. It’s why religion fights against Science so often. They understand that the more light Science throws, the less likely people turn to religion.
I’d love to keep religion out of politics – just like our Founding Fathers. But as long as the religious right is a valued voting block, and our society cannot accept non-religious freethinkers in political office, it will remain a wedge issue.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:29 am*
from yes!magazine (this particular story is not online… too bad… ’cause this will be a test of my typing skills… but this last part is of extreme importance):
How Iran Could Help the United States
[...]
By setting preconditions for diplomacy that Iran will almost certainly not meet, the Bush administration is making real diplomacy impossible.
It is risky to wait for the next administration to take office to resove this issue. The Bush administration still has nine montys left. During that time, if a climate of confrontation between the U.S. and Iran continues, small incidents could spiral out of control and we could find ourselves involved in yet another war. Or, as some predict, the admin. could order air strikes against Iran, unleashing a cycle of retaliation whose end is hard to see.
The Bush admin. has shown that it can be responsive to sustained congressional pressure, which in turn results from public pressure. The congressionally appointed, bipartisan Iraq Study Group unanimously recommended talks with Iran. In response, the B. admin. began limited talks with Iran concerning Iraq, which the Iraqi government says have been useful. These talks should be espanded to include all issues in dispute between the two countries. If members of Congress hear consistently from their constituents that a “surge” of U.S. diplomacy is needed, not a bombing campaign, U.S. policy could change, even before the next election.
-Robert Naiman
yes, it’s up to us, people…
May 29th, 2008 at 10:29 amYES! Online: Prevent War With Iran
How to Stop War on Iran
by Sarah van Gelder
Do you hear the drum beat of war? Does it sound like déjà vu all over again?
http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=2169
May 29th, 2008 at 10:30 amBriseadh na Faire Says:
Remember, Pelosi and Conyers are acting as Gatekeepers, keeping Impeachment off the table, giving the Bush Administration a free pass.
They are not giving a free pass. Conyers has written several strongly worded letters threatening more letters if the administration continues to ignore his letters and subpoenas.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:31 amO.K. I will concede that Pelosi has not even written a letter. She sucks!
Prevent War With Iran
:: What You Can Do
http://www.yesmagazine.org/default.asp?id=242
May 29th, 2008 at 10:31 amHoly crap! Rupert Murdoch just said that he thinks Obama will win because McCain has a lot of issues!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hilary-rosen/rupert-murdoch-says-obama_b_104018.html
About the presumptive Republican nominee, Murdoch said, “McCain is a friend of mine. But I think he’s got a lot of problems. He has been in Congress a long time, and you have to make a lot of compromises. So what’s he really stand for?… I think he has a lot of problems.”
May 29th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Life in Iran :: Photo Essay
by Arash Shiva
http://yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=2613
May 29th, 2008 at 10:33 amNever mind that in the process of “learning as we go” people are maimed and killed and families ruined.
Meanwhile, dumbass rides his bicycle and clears brush down on the ranch.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:34 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
While I personally think it’s a rather ugly scarf (it might have looked all right without all the fringe), I honestly would have made no connection between it and terrorism if not for alarmists like Michelle Malkin.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:16 am
______
I can see the connection – it does look quite a bit like the Palestinian kaffiyeh, which is worn by Christians and Muslims alike and has become a worldwide symbol of solidarity with the Palestinian people. It’s also interesting to note that the black-and-white pattern Malkin objects to is the one traditionally associated with Fatah supporters, while the red-and-white “Jordanian” pattern is the one favored by Hamas supporters. Of course, people like Malkin like to ignore the details and just paint all Palestinians – and by extension their fashion accessories – as terrorist.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:34 amAh yes, it’s wonderful to be an American. Our reputation is in the toilet, the dollar is a joke in the financial community, oil is $130 and rising (regardless of what the Bushies say about supply and demand, Iraq isn’t producing enough to make a difference), inflation is about to be rampant, the middle class will soon like the middle class of Germany’s Weimar Republic, torture will remain essential to obtain information from the ‘enemy’(who, by the way have been AWOL since 9/11/01), cluster bombs will remain an essential part of our defense (and the Israeli’s so they can kill Reuter cameramen and civilians quickly),we’re about to ratify the ‘Free Trade Agreement’ with the Thugocracy of Columbia, the shadow economy, which has more money invested in it that all the stock markets combined, will remain unregulated (give thanks to Phil Graham R TX), and continue to ’securitize’ mortgages and other financial structures with complex derivatives, credit swaps etc., and the financial crises will continue to raise havoc with our and the world’s economy, and finally we’ll keep the Goebbels type propaganda flowing so that some misguided vets. can campaign for complete victory.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:35 amOnly those who never saw combat can want more, these were Mauldin’s ‘garritroopers’: too far forward to wear ties, and too far back to get hurt.
I have little to cheer me these days.
Every time I read something like this, I am reminded of a Newsweek cartoon back in the 90’s of Bill Clinton sitting in a police car eating donuts and the side of the car says World Police. How far we’ve come.
And WordPress was a little weird before. It seems to be working again.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:40 ami’m outside again today, for as long as the old body can take it…
back later…
i read something the other day i liked:
Don’t be nice, BE KIND.
think about it.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:41 amunbelievable Says:
I think that, as our “pile” of Science knowledge grows larger and larger, that it’s unlikely. Most of these kids reject religious because of all the Scientific answers we have to questions. The god of the gaps is getting smaller and smaller, therefore not gining the pendulum anywhere to swing. Much like the fact that it doesn’t swing any longer between flat Earth and spherical Earth.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:29 am
The way I see it, religion and science answer two different questions. Science answers the “how” questions – how was the universe formed, how did life arise, how did humans come to exist, etc. Religion answers the “why” questions – why was the universe formed, why did life arise, why did humans come to exist, etc. Both can peacefully coexist if they stick to these domains.
Actually, Einsten was not religious. He didn’t believe in a personal god and clearly explained that when he refered to “God” he was using a metaphor for what is ‘unknown’.
True. He had a free-thinking approach to his personal belief that did not necessarily conform to orthodox teachings. But that’s still, by default, a religion – an ethos or personal belief that provides an overarching sense of morality and order to the universe. If you want to believe that there is no God, you’re welcome to – but that’s still a religion.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:46 amhahahaha! to believe is to believe; to not believe is to believe that you do not believe!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:53 ameither way, your still gonna roll down the hill on one side or the other, hahaha!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:54 amReacting to McClellan’s book, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “I’m not going to comment on a book that I haven’t read but I will say” the threat from Saddam Hussein “was well understood.” She added, “I would really ask do people really believe that he was not a threat to the international community?”
First, the issue was not whether he was a “threat” to the “international community”, the issue was whether he was a lethal threat to the United States.
Second, the United Nations (a/k/a the international community) failed to support the resolution authorizing force against Iraq. Ergo, NO! the international community did not believe Saddam Hussein was a threat to the “international community.”
Third, when we invaded Iraq there was barely any resistance. Do Condi and the rest of the crime family really expect us to believe that Saddam Hussein was a lethal threat to countries beyond Iraq’s borders (nevermind oceans away) when he didn’t even have sufficient force to defend his own borders for one (1) day?
May 29th, 2008 at 10:55 amAmerican troops, “whom they consider occupiers, are also acting as Christian missionaries.”
Hey, is Daryll over there?
Not. But it sounds like his fundie pals are hard at work alienating the shit out of the Iraqi hearts and minds.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:57 amhow sad, to think this country can be so ethnocentric to others on their own territory. what give us the right? What right does this country have to occupy anyone or anything at all?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:00 amhussein toasterhead Says: The way I see it, religion and science answer two different questions. Science answers the “how” questions – how was the universe formed, how did life arise, how did humans come to exist, etc. Religion answers the “why” questions – why was the universe formed, why did life arise, why did humans come to exist, etc. Both can peacefully coexist if they stick to these domains.
Science actually answers the ‘why’ questions very well. (”The Blind WatchMaker” by Dawkins is one of my favorites on the subject). To say otherwise is simply demonstrating a lack of understanding of this fact.
Religion, does not actually answer the ‘why’ questions – it speculates in many different and conflicting versions. After all, there are hundreds, if not thousands of religious hypothesis on ‘why?’.
One problem is that many people don’t like the ‘why’ answers that Science gives, because they are not human-centric, so they turn to religious “answers” and tell Science to stay out of that arena. The problem is that the religious answers are not true (i.e. that the universe was created for humans), and as a result, have caused more harm in this world than good.
Science will not limit itself because religious people don’t like the facts it unearths about what and who we actually are (which is very different from what religion claims). That’s why the attacks against Science by Religion have become so much more venomous. It’s getting to be a losing battle.
True. He had a free-thinking approach to his personal belief that did not necessarily conform to orthodox teachings. But that’s still, by default, a religion – an ethos or personal belief that provides an overarching sense of morality and order to the universe. If you want to believe that there is no God, you’re welcome to – but that’s still a religion.
You can define religion however you’d like to suit your purpose, but then it makes a discussion very difficult. I’m referencing religion in a dictionary definition of the word – as a belief in the metaphysical and/or a supernatural system based on faith (a lack of evidence or proof).
Atheism is NOT a religion. It’s a lack of religion (well, god), therefore it cannot be a religion. To say otherwise is just moving the goal posts, and that makes it impossible to actually have a conversation about the subject (or is that the newest methodology for denying the reality that Science and religion are actually incompatable? :)
If it makes you feel better to believe, that’s certainly your right. But, if you’re going to suggest that Science keep away from ‘why’ questions, you’re going to have to keep redefining the word ‘religion’ until it it literally means “everything”, which will no longer mean anything.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:06 amScott confirms Bush suffers from delusions of Granduer.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:08 amHe violated international law to try make himself the greatest president in history . We went to war against Iraq so Bush could say see I’m the first president in modern history to liberate the middle east . What BS. People say THIS IS OLD NEWS , and we let them get away with that BS.
This is news !!!,this man confirmed what we all thought all along that Bush didnt give a damn about keeping Americans safe from terrorist or the Iraqis safe from Sadaam his only interest was for his legacy . I got his legacy alright .
THE WORST PRSIDENT IN HISTORY .
ninique Says: hahahaha! to believe is to believe; to not believe is to believe that you do not believe!
It’sinteresting what an integral part the word ‘believe’ is to believers that they cannot comprehend that there are those of us who do not do believe.
It’s instead about examining the evidence, and either accepting or rejecting a thing based on proof (or lack thereof). For non-believers, knowledge is much more about “accepting” than “believing”.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:12 amRep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) is calling on Scott McClellan to testify under oath before the House Judiciary Committee about the “earth-shattering” allegations in his new book.
No doubt that Nancy Pelosi will declare this investigation “off the table” as well.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
May 29th, 2008 at 11:14 amwhy? does the word believe give you a rash? do you have that strict a vocabulary?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:22 amis it not in your name? all right then. just replace it with accept, who gives a crap.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:23 amif you do not “believe” or “accept” one thing, than you believe or accept that you don’t. there, does that feel better? do you want a cookie?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:24 amninique Says: why? does the word believe give you a rash? do you have that strict a vocabulary?
No… I already explained.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:26 amand actually, Science speculates also, why do you think they call them Scientific theories? the big bang theory? eh? you cannot prove or disprove it and it’s Science. hahahaa!
May 29th, 2008 at 11:27 amso don’t start with your, ohh, say accept, not believe, waa, waa, waa cause you’re going in circles also
May 29th, 2008 at 11:29 amyou can nonbelieve all you want.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:30 amDoctors really do not prescribe enough Lithium…
May 29th, 2008 at 11:37 amis that what you use?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:39 amHey!
Are we going to have to separate you two?!?!? ;-)
unbelievable ninique
May 29th, 2008 at 11:48 amScience actually answers the ‘why’ questions very well. (”The Blind WatchMaker” by Dawkins is one of my favorites on the subject). To say otherwise is simply demonstrating a lack of understanding of this fact.
Religion, does not actually answer the ‘why’ questions – it speculates in many different and conflicting versions. After all, there are hundreds, if not thousands of religious hypothesis on ‘why?’.
Perhaps I’m moving the goalposts a bit, but it seems to me that the “why” questions science answers are actually “how” questions.
If, for example, we ask the question “why is the sky blue,” science cannot actually answer it. Yes, science can say that the fission reactions taking place on the surface of Sol produce massive amounts of radiation of all wavelengths radiating in all directions. Science can say that Rayleigh scattering of visible light waves passing through the molecules of the atmosphere results in the absorption and refraction of those waves with a wavelength below 475 nanometers or so. These then strike the cone cells of the human retina and stimulate them to send electrochemical impulses along the optic nerve, which our brain resolves to form a picture in which the sky appears in the color to which we refer in the English language as blue. That’s not a “why” answer. That’s a “how” answer.
That doesn’t answer why nitrogen and oxygen molecules filter out that particular wavelength of light, or why the human eye responds to only the visible portion of the spectrum and not infrared or ultraviolet light. It just explains the mechanism of how those particular photons get from the Sun to our occipital lobes. It doesn’t answer the metaphysical question of “why” these things exist, and it doesn’t have to.
And you’re right – the traditional conflict between science and religion has been that religion wants to put humans at the center of the Universe, and science wants to put us in our place, which is on a tiny speck of matter orbiting an unremarkable star in an unfashionable arm of a humdrum galaxy on the cusp of an ever-expanding universe composed mostly of dark matter we have not even begun to comprehend. Religion has, traditionally, been very bad at adapting to this new knowledge – but I beleive that’s only because it’s taken itself too literally.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:49 amDarn it, it should have looked like this. . . .
unbelievable —— ninique
May 29th, 2008 at 11:49 amthat’s ok, Democrat Soldier :)
May 29th, 2008 at 11:54 amok, but getting back to Accept and believe… what do you say, Mr. hussein toasterhead?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:55 amhehehe!
May 29th, 2008 at 11:56 amin all honesty, unbelievable, I do respect your lack of believing or faith. It is your God-given right!..haha, just kidding, kids.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:57 amI wrote a funny!
May 29th, 2008 at 11:57 amOn the ‘Big Bang Theory’…just like the theory of evolution, it is supported by scientific fact and the theory seeks to understand the facts as observed.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:57 amTo a religious person the theory of evolution is on equal footing with the creation theory or so-called intelligent design. But, to a geneticist, who is studying the DNA of plants/animals/humans through time, he sees evidence to support the theory…genetic evolution is a fact of science. The followers of creation and intelligent design have as evidence only their beliefs.
And that’s a fact!
I believe that people’s belief systems are incredibly strong. If these systems are to be shattered, which is difficult to impossible, those people become homicidal or suicidal.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:01 pmninique, we’ve been through this discussion ad nauseum with Bartlebee. Could we let it drop this time.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
Religion has, traditionally, been very bad at adapting to this new knowledge – but I beleive that’s only because it’s taken itself too literally.
the problem is that it is supposed to be taken literally. Not that I or anyone else may, but that is the fundamental thing about belonging to a particular religion. You see, you can’t be half ass. You either dive in head first or you don’t. You either believe all,/i> their doctrines or you are considered lacking in faith, and that my dear kids is personal struggle of many seeking answers. I question the God-inspired but man-written doctrines that are ancient. because of this, I tend to see myself as someone disobedient when it comes to religion.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:05 pmninique Says:
ok, but getting back to Accept and believe… what do you say, Mr. hussein toasterhead?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:55 am
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Again, I’m probably moving the goalposts a bit, but to me they’re essentially the same thing. To accept a theory as valid based on empirical evidence, you have to believe, at the very least, in the fundamental assumptions underlying that theory. The fact is that we still don’t know what gravity is, or what time is, or whether quarks are made of strings or waves or particles. When you get into the realm of theoretical physics, you still have to choose a side – at least for the purpose of understanding an argument. Whether you like it or not, there’s still an element of belief there.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pmoops, sorry!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pmthere, see? belief! not accept!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pmFT~ Yep, just as they have to hide any evidence of extra terrestrial visitation, as most fundies heads would explode if it were made public that not only are we not alone, we are way inferior!!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:09 pmhey, I’m down with that too!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:10 pmand getting back to passing out gospel coins. I hope the locals pass out Qu’ran’s to the soldiers. It should be a fair trade. Maybe it can be a learning experience for all.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:13 pmthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
More than 100 countries “have reached an agreement on a treaty which would ban current designs of cluster bombs.” However, the United States did not join the ban,
We are a rouge nation. We need to invade ourselves.
– please don’t say “rouge nations,” even as a joke. There are too many people already who think this term is legit, whereas in fact it started out as a misprint for “rogue” and spread virally. yuk.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:17 pmChimp is headed to court in effort to be classified as a person
Court Claim: Chimps Are People, Too
Jeanna Bryner
LiveScience.com
Matthew, a 26-year-old chimp, is headed to court in Europe as part of a human effort to classify him as a person.
Hmmm. Perhaps Dubya could testify on his behalf. ;o)
May 29th, 2008 at 12:18 pmFunky P Says:
On the ‘Big Bang Theory’…just like the theory of evolution, it is supported by scientific fact and the theory seeks to understand the facts as observed.
To a religious person the theory of evolution is on equal footing with the creation theory or so-called intelligent design. But, to a geneticist, who is studying the DNA of plants/animals/humans through time, he sees evidence to support the theory…genetic evolution is a fact of science. The followers of creation and intelligent design have as evidence only their beliefs.
And that’s a fact!
May 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am
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To a closed-minded religious person, yes. In my mind, the “how” answers on the mechanics of genetic evolution can coexist with the more philosophical questions of “why” this planet evolved the way it did.
Religion’s fundamental assumption is that there is some metaphysical plan for the universe. And if we look at our own solar system, one could theoretically argue that the last five billion years have been “planned.” Once the solar disk coalesced into planets and asteroids and comets and Oort cloud objects, the laws of gravity set those objects in motion on a path from which they could not deviate even if they had the capacity to want to.
Every planetary collision, every near miss that knocked an object into another orbit, every planetoid that turned into a Jovian satellite – was, in a sense, preordained. Therefore, the comet that struck the Caribbean 65 million years ago and sent evolution down the path of mammal-dominance as opposed to reptile dominance — and eventually led to human existence — was set in motion 5 billion years ago.
A religious-minded person can call that “God’s plan.” A science-minded person can call that “gravitational certainty.” I say, “why can’t it be both?”
May 29th, 2008 at 12:24 pmyeah, come to think of it, why can’t it be both???
May 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pmRowan Berkeley Says:
– please don’t say “rouge nations,” even as a joke. There are too many people already who think this term is legit, whereas in fact it started out as a misprint for “rogue” and spread virally. yuk.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
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True. It’s a steep slippery slope from a typo to our entire country being rendered as a giant Tolouse-Lautrec poster. Eek!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pmninique Says:
yeah, come to think of it, why can’t it be both???
May 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
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Exactly.
Besides – we already know the answer to all things in the universe. It’s 42.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:34 pmhuh? no it’s not, it’s 64!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pmand by the way, I happen to like Tolouse- Latrec’s work, it’s garrish and scandelous!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pmoh yum, sun-dried tomato knots!
May 29th, 2008 at 12:39 pmMore than 100 countries “have reached an agreement on a treaty which would ban current designs of cluster bombs.” However, the United States did not join the ban, calling the controversial munitions “an integral, legitimate part of its arsenal.” A Pentagon spokesman said the bombs “have demonstrated military utility.”
In a Senate vote in 2006, Hillary joined McCain in voting against such a ban, while Obama was one of only four senators to vote in favor of it, according to the NYT today. See page two of the linked article. (Interesting that TP would have selected the Washington Post article in which there is no mention of this vote).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/world/europe/29cluster.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
May 29th, 2008 at 12:46 pmIraqi residents of Fallujah are claiming that American troops, “whom they consider occupiers, are also acting as Christian missionaries.” They say that some U.S. Marines “at the western entrance to their city have been passing out” coins imprinted with Gospel verse “for two days in what they call a ‘humiliating’ attempt to convert them to Christianity.”
Imagine Muslims handing out religious literature to people leaving the churches of Hagee and Parsley.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:56 pmmisshusseinmolly says:
However, with McCain planning to use the “871 days” since Obama went there as a campaign issue, and the right-wing blogosphere no doubt planning to spin his lack of visitation into “not supporting the troops” (yeah, the irony is overwhelming), he’ll probably have to go for political reasons. I just hope he keeps his bullsh!t detectors activated while there.
I hope he keeps his head down :(
May 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pmunbelievable Says:
“Religion and Science are not compatable. It’s why religion fights against Science so often. They understand that the more light Science throws, the less likely people turn to religion.”
Maybe we need to qualify religion. I don’t know if all religions are not compatible with science. It seems to be those who based on the Old Testament. Can anyone offer any insight?
As for the scarves, I grew up seeing those Arab scarves my entire life and it doesn’t mean anything to me except a type of pattern. On the other hand, I also don’t think of people who eat sauerkraut as Nazi sympathizers. I wonder if there will be a movement to use only Roman numerals now. It’s gonna be tough balancing my checkbook…
May 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pmScaryBrownHusseinChick (ThinkOutsideTheBush) Says:
I wonder if there will be a movement to use only Roman numerals now. It’s gonna be tough balancing my checkbook…
May 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
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True – especially without the use of a zero.
Though, given the current state of the economy, banning the zero might not be a bad idea. You can’t go broke if the concept of zero money no longer exists…
May 29th, 2008 at 1:29 pmScaryBrownHusseinChick (ThinkOutsideTheBush) Says
May 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I wonder if there will be a movement to use only Roman numerals now. It’s gonna be tough balancing my checkbook…
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Thanks — I needed that laugh! But now I’m looking toward the next tax season with dread…
May 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
“And you’re right – the traditional conflict between science and religion has been that religion wants to put humans at the center of the Universe, and science wants to put us in our place, which is on a tiny speck of matter orbiting an unremarkable star in an unfashionable arm of a humdrum galaxy on the cusp of an ever-expanding universe composed mostly of dark matter we have not even begun to comprehend. Religion has, traditionally, been very bad at adapting to this new knowledge – but I beleive that’s only because it’s taken itself too literally.”
Well said, toasterhead!
May 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmCouldn’t agree more.
huh? no it’s not, it’s 64!
Not according to the Hitchiker’s Guide.
May 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
A religious-minded person can call that “God’s plan.” A science-minded person can call that “gravitational certainty.” I say, “why can’t it be both?”
May 29th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Well said, HT!
May 29th, 2008 at 3:39 pmWexler should get out more. McClellan’s revelations are “earth-shattering”? Is Wexler living on Mars?
May 29th, 2008 at 3:48 pm