‘World’s largest’ Confederate flag to be flown in Tampa.
‘World’s largest’ Confederate flag to be flown in Tampa.
The Sons of Confederate Veterans, an all-male organization dedicated to preserving the “true history” of the Civil War period, is currently constructing what they say will be the “world’s largest” display of the Confederate flag in Tampa, Florida — a 30-foot high and 50-foot long flag atop a 139-foot pole. John W. Adams, a co-chair of the Confederate Veterans’ Flags Across Florida project, insists the flag isn’t about racism or slavery. “It’s about honoring our ancestors and about celebrating our heritage,” he said. “It’s a historical thing to us“:
[Douglas] Dawson, the Sons of Confederate Veterans’ Florida commander, said he knows a giant Confederate flag flying 24 hours a day over two of the Tampa area’s busiest roads will cause controversy.
“We can’t do anything but explain to people what the truth is,” said Dawson, of Pensacola. “If they don’t want to accept that, they’re closed-minded, and Jesus Christ couldn’t change it.”
Hey, Sons of Confederate Veterans; Go F yourselves.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:09 pmWhile I can understand their desire to preserve their heritage vis a vis secession, the fact remains that the confederate flag is a symbol of racism.
And these days, I appreciate secession even more.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:10 pmIf that’s the case, then these fine upstanding Sons of Confederate Veterans citizens won’t mind it a bit and will refrain from attacking when they see immigrants from other countries who are proudly displaying the flags of their ancestors which they feel honors their heritage as well — right?
Just saying . . .
May 31st, 2008 at 1:11 pmThe true American Flag as it honors what is best of America.
We have minority soldiers dying for the USA and what do they give for protecting the USA nothing. Former Senator Lott did as much as he could to bring back the hate and prejudice of our pass, looks like it’s finally happen. How does a Black or Spanish American honor a flag that said they were worth less then an animal and kept them as slaves. This is what has happen in the 7 years Bush/Cheney have been in office. The United States of America has gone backward with all the sick racist coming out of the wood work.
As a child I saw a black man hanging for a tree in the South, I lived to see the changes and the Civil Rights Bill passed. I guess I’ll live to see the pass again.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:13 pmHistorical? The southern traitors attempted to destroy our nation by believing they could just leave if they don’t like the way its being run. If that was the case, New York, California, and all the rest of the Blue states should secede for the way Bush has taken our country.
Now they are trying to revise history by attempting to show the confedercy was a noble cause. it was all about the owning of people, slavery.
Check out the League of the South, they’re still advocating secession.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:13 pmyea. florida is where the kkk was started. as an insurgency to preform terrorist acts against the blacks and use them as political tools to force the union government to bend to their will. 1877 put an end to that though. and now thats why 90% of people in the south are all ignorant trailer trash. because the north burned down their homes and destroyed their economy. and never helped them get back on their feat after they made them kneel.
the Libertarian party has a lot of kkk affiliates I’m sure.
stupid is as stupid does
May 31st, 2008 at 1:13 pmSo?
May 31st, 2008 at 1:13 pmThe citizen-soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personified the best qualities of America. The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South’s decision to fight the Second American Revolution.
This is directly from their website. Apparently “liberty and freedom” means freedom to discriminate and enslave the people of their choice. No doubt this all male organization would repeal womans right to vote as well.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
May 31st, 2008 at 1:16 pmThe defenders always mention history and heritage, and the opponents mention slavery and racism.
The big missing piece is that the flag is a vile reminder of armed, illegal rebellion against a duly constituted nation, of which those rebellious states were a part. they weren’t colonies, they were full-fledged members and citizens. And what they did was a CRIME.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:21 pmI understand why some white southerners believe that the Confederate flag symbolizes the honor and respect that they want to show for their ancestors. Millions of men fought with the Conferedacy in the Civil War, and theirs is a history that should not be ignored or explained away.
However, I haven’t seen much evidence that the Sons of Confederate Veterans’ sense of honor and respect goes both ways. When have the Sons of Confederate Veterans acknowledged that the Confederate flag means something entirely different to many African Americans in the South–that it is, for them, a symbol of slavery, racism, and hatred? And when have the Sons of Confederate Veterans supported other groups–Mexican Americans, Italian Americans, Palestinian Americans–when they want to display their flags to honor and respect their heritage? Or when gay Americans want to express themselves in a pay pride parade?
May 31st, 2008 at 1:24 pmIs there some reason we’re keeping Florida?
May 31st, 2008 at 1:26 pmNote to self: proofreading is a good thing.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:26 pmI wonder how the Tampa tourism and convention bureau feels about the flag. How about the NFL? Will the TV networks pan to a shot of the flag during the Buccaneers games? And how will their advertisers feel about it?
May 31st, 2008 at 1:29 pmSomeone might want to tell these Bozos that
1) the South lost
May 31st, 2008 at 1:35 pm2) the US flag represents all Americans
3) to fly the flag of the Confederacy honors traitors to our nation
It’s time again to visit that website I can’t write here correctly, but you get the drift:
May 31st, 2008 at 1:39 pmf-ckthesouth.com
Somebody needs to chop the f()cker down, then shit all over the odious rag.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:48 pmSo am I to believe that they believe Jesus is on their side? I don’t think so.
-AF
May 31st, 2008 at 1:50 pmAndrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
Yes, WE’S RACISTS, hee yuk hee yuk.
THAT’S our “heritage”, hee yuk, hee yuk.
The United States of Racist Traitors…
May 31st, 2008 at 1:51 pmStraight out of the Bush/Cheney Revisionist History Playbook. Scream your lies to the rafters loud enough and long enough, they will drown out the truth, and become the truth.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:56 pmJohn W. Adams, a co-chair of the Confederate Veterans’ Flags Across Florida project, insists the flag isn’t about racism or slavery. “It’s about honoring our ancestors and about celebrating our heritage,” he said. “It’s a historical thing to us“.
***********************************************************
Perhaps — except for one small point which these “gentlemen” (and I’m using the term very loosely indeed here) have very conveniently chosen to ignore…
Their history and so-called heritage wouldn’t even exist were it not for the insistence of their forefathers that they had a right to imprison and forcibly remove other human beings from their homes and regard them as property. You quite simply cannot remove the stain of racism from the so-called heritage of the Confederacy.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:00 pmLove of a flag is for the weak of mind.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:00 pmWhich flag will they be flying? The first national flag? The second national flag? The battle flag? The Navy jack?
Arguably, if someone actually wanted to memorialize the “State’s Rights” aspect of the secessionist cause, then the First or Second national flag would be flown and wouldn’t be looked at as particularly bad. Particularly since most people born after 1860 probably wouldn’t know them if they saw them. The Navy jack, commonly seen on everything from bumper stickers to southern state capital flag poles is clearly meant in todays context as an anti-civil rights banner (or increasingly, an anti-immigrant/science/woman/etc statement).
Short of re-enactments or history books, I have a hard time justifying the use of the Confederate Navy jack in any context. Though I’m also against banning its display. It’s in incredibly bad taste and a deliberately provocative move to fly the CNJ, but banning it would be as wrong as banning flag burning.
-David
May 31st, 2008 at 2:04 pm“Libertarians” have been among the most consistent anti-war propagandists, and yet they unashamedly include among their ranks such bigots as Pat Buchanan. I can see that, just cruising around the web, from over here in England.
I think maybe the reason that there exists this false opposition in the USA between “cosmopolitanism’ and “isolationism” (I’m using two contrasting code words on purpose) is because US academia has never managed to come to terms with the fact that capitalism has to expand in order to survive. I was educated in Britain in the 1970s, when Keynesianism was the normal mainstream economic doctrine, and we understood that capitalist economies need constant growth, either physically or via inflation. In the USA, that doctrine never took hold, or if it did, it lost its hold pretty fast, so you get the bogus, utopian capitalist theory of Mises and Co., which via “libertarianism” becomes an alibi for all kinds of racist rubbish. Am I wrong?
May 31st, 2008 at 2:15 pmOh good lord…why is it always “this is what it means to us” without considering how it might seem to others? This will be the downfall of this nation.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:29 pmCan you buy a chinese made confederate flag lapel pin? I was just wondering.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:37 pmMaybe Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas can secede from the USA and form the Southern States of America. Orlando can be the capital with Disney World as the seat of government. The Emperor will make Cinderella’s Castle his home.
This new nation will drill off shore and join OPEC and work with other groups to bring about the downfall of the USA.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:43 pm26 - that’s probably the only place where they’re made.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:50 pmNo matter how they may try to make a silk purse out of the pig’s ear, it doesn’t work. This is a blatant in-your-face assault on black America.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:00 pmThey know what the flag symbolizes - they also know that the south lost the war. They prefer to keep the civil war alive in the minds of the southern racist - keep the whites divided from the blacks - it’s just that the name of the organization is different from the KKK — everything else is the same.
Preservtion of Southern history my a$$. This is preservation of the nearly fatal division of America’s past.
Sure, like these sh*tkickers need an extra large flag to look like a bunch of backwards hicks. Let them fly their flag. That way everybody with a brain knows to spend their money somewhere else.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:00 pm“If they don’t want to accept that, they’re closed-minded, and Jesus Christ couldn’t change it.”
Is it just me or are they dissing Jesus Christ by suggesting Christ’s lack of any capacity to open minds? So Christ can “fix” homosexuality but is stymied by closed-minds? So what’s with this whole omnipotence thing?
May 31st, 2008 at 3:01 pmSenator Obama. I watched as you created some distance with Jeremiah Wright after some of his more controversial comments surfaced. I think you did a good job refuting his sentiments, while attempting to support Wright and much of his work as a pastor.
You have said that you would continue to support Trinity United Church of Christ and its new pastor, Reverend Moss. Although, Moss seems like a nice person, he recently invited Father Michael Pfleger to speak at Trinity. Here are some clips of what Father Pfleger had to say:
http://worldnetdaily.com/ index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65625
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfWnY5PC0CQ
I believe that the events at Trinity are putting you in a difficult circumstance.
The more information that comes out of the church, make it apparent the organization suffers from institutional reverse racism.
Reverse racism is as repugnant as any other form of racism. It should obviously not be condoned. It should especially not be condoned by someone who aspires to lead (and set an example for) the free world.
Although, cutting your ties might cost you some support of those sympathetic to the members of Trinity; if you want to lead all Americans and not just one particular subset, it’s time for you to renounce your membership in Trinity United Church of Christ.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:06 pmhttp://worldnetdaily.com/ index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65625
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfWnY5PC0CQ
May 31st, 2008 at 3:07 pmhttp://worldnetdaily.com/ index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65625
May 31st, 2008 at 3:07 pmGood point dbadass
May 31st, 2008 at 3:08 pmhelp me out here.
does any other group or country that lost a war kept flying their flag as a symbol of pride?
the whole idea seems very odd to me.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:11 pmSorry that this is so long, backup, but I found it worth the time to read
by Tom Rinaldo
I fully accept and understand that Barack Obama has remained a member in good standing of Trinity Church for twenty years, even though some pretty outrageous things have been said there from time to time from the pulpit. I can also understand why Obama did not always make it a personal priority to loudly confront and counter such statements within that congregation whenever they have been made. Barack Obama differentiated himself from those sentiments by the choices he made in his life beyond that congregation, and he was open about those choices and the values they reflected to the people he knew within it.
As an aspiring politician with national ambitions I could not understand it had Barack Obama joined Trinity Church six years ago, because being a member there now complicates his journey forward, since his membership in Trinity in ways undercuts his chosen message and the mission he has embarked on for service to America. An important element of Barack Obama’s political agenda is an effort to help lift America beyond the racial divide that has haunted our nation since its inception. Trinity straddles that divide, and sometimes it deplores that divide more than it transcends it.
But Obama did not join Trinity Church six years ago. He did so when he was in his twenties, when he was trying to put together the pieces in his own mind of faith’s role in an unjust world, and of the role racial pride plays in a world where racial pride leads some people to oppress others, and where victims of that oppression often internalize a second class racial identity as a result. Trinity Church represents an extended family to Obama now and he coexists in congregation with them in a generally loving spirit.
I do so with my own extended family also, both biological and otherwise. I hold my closest friends to moral values consistent with my own, but I am more forgiving of others with whom I still share some forms of community. I hold to my values and seek to influence my larger community through my practice of them, but I don’t openly combat every instance where my values are affronted. Clearly I coexist with some prejudices around me, and why I do so is complex to understand and describe. Mostly I think it’s because I know society won’t be changed by constantly being in each others faces condemning each other for being less than perfect. I respond directly to the worst instances of prejudice I witness, but I witness more than I respond to directly.
Most people aren’t mean spirited, most people aren’t haters, though some mean spirited things get spoken by all of us at times. Anthropology, sociology, history and psychology teach us that people have always been tempted to divide into us vs. them; there has always been a clan mentality that serves to unify some of us to defend against whatever uncertainty “others” who are “not us” may wish upon us. But people have also always shown a generosity of spirit that offers hospitality to strangers in our midst once the fear of a possible threat has dissipated.
I fully believe that the Trinity Church congregation is no more prejudiced at root than any community that I myself belong to, I even suspect they may be less so. Their sin if any might be that they openly attempt to process the questions of race and inequality in America, and those are questions that are damn hard to process. Ultimately it’s like asking, why does evil exist? There is much to be angry about in this world and rage is unhealthy to suppress. Rage can also be unhealthy to release. No one said this was easy.
What all of this says to me now, what the sum of Barack Obama’s life circumstances and life choices to date now tells me, is that he is the American leader best positioned to break the silence concerning the racial divisions that still exist in America. They can’t simply be ignored. As a society we do so only at our own peril, at the expense of our own healing. Barack Obama is the son of a black father and a white mother. He loves his family, all of his family. Together our people form an American family, one in need of a family reunion, or more accurately, one in need of a more perfect union.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:11 pmAm I wrong?
May 31st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Not a chinchilla! Spot On, iirc you chaps say!
May 31st, 2008 at 3:14 pmSince “backup” talks about Obama, but NEVER answered the question by Wayne about “backup” supporting 12 YEARS of military
service to get Veterans’ Benefits, as defined by McSenile and GayGraham’s bill…,
I will say:
MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA will BURN for ETERNITY, along with Cheney, the PNAC WAR CRIMINALS, and
TRAITOR Ronnie Reagan, now DEAD and BURNING.
“backup” will be there with the TREASONOUS Bush and Cheney, unless he REPENTS his SUPPORT of these unamerikkkan MURDERERS.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:14 pmIsn’t it great to live in America?
May 31st, 2008 at 3:16 pmThe First Amendment even protects these people.
Arn. I think I responded to Wayne. Go back and check it out.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:24 pmThe Confederate Flag represents a defeated nation. Any loser displaying that rag is simply proud of defeat and anti-Americanism.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:28 pmArn. I think I responded to Wayne. Go back and check it out.
Nope. When Wayne asked you the question about 12 YEARS in order to get education benefits, you responded 2 hours later, and
NEVER answered his question about you supporting McSenile/GayGraham’s bill, which STIPULATES 12 YEARS.
So, tell us NOW (or show us the link where you answered YES OR NO):
Do you support a bill that makes new recruits wait TWELVE YEARS to get education benefits?
YES or NO? Quite SIMPLE…
May 31st, 2008 at 3:31 pmEXCEPT when you support TRAITORS like MURDERER Bush…
Marie. I don’t mind that it’s long, it’s a pretty good response.
I’ll concede that republicans have more than their fair share of bigotry and racism. And I’ll wager no one’s perfect on the issue (I know, I’m not). Additionally, I agree with Rinaldo, Obama is in a unique position to help us address our racial divide.
But, we obviously shouldn’t condone the racism. I get the point that many times we are more tolerant of those closer to us, because of the nature of the relationships.
But, the pastors and (very importantly, the congregation) of Trinity are putting Obama in a public position in which he needs to either renounce his membership in the church or at least rebuke the congregation that seem to encourage the racist views. We wouldn’t tolerate it from others, we shouldn’t tolerate it from them.
As uncomfortable as the situation is, Obama needs to show leadership on the issue, because a convenient double standard won’t solve the race problems we have in America.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:35 pmAnd LIEberman is speaking at John Hagee’s GREAT WHORE festival.
LIEbermann is the GUEST WHORE, since McSenile has to “distance” himself from the ENDORSEMENT HE SOUGHT FOR OVER A YEAR!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
May 31st, 2008 at 3:39 pmArn. Yes, I would support it.
And you might not like my answer, but I did answer the question. Here’s my responses. Judge for yourself.
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2008/ 05/ 26/ memorial-day-gi-bill/ #comments
responses 157-161 (end of the thread).
May 31st, 2008 at 3:43 pmArn. Yes, I would support it.
Yet YOU said that you got GI benefits in MUCH LESS TIME than 12 YEARS.
WHY the HYPOCRISY?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
NRA Gun Nut(e)s
May 31st, 2008 at 3:45 pmbackup and others….we don’t need the concern trolling. Like you care about Obama. Besides, it’s interesting that you don’t address the topic at hand-the crude, callous creation of perhaps the world’s biggest Confederate flag. What do you have to say about that? No one wants to see your trolling. Answer the question at hand.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:46 pmbackup, *flagged* off-topic and spamming
May 31st, 2008 at 3:52 pmLook at the bright side: given the many innovative pranksters out there, the flying of the world’s largest American Swastika raises the opportunity for the largest flag-burning in American history.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:55 pmI AGREE.
A LARGE confederate flag should be BURNED, along with little-hodded-KKK-effigies…
May 31st, 2008 at 3:57 pmI live in Georgia. A few days ago I took a trip that took me a couple of hours outside Atlanta. I saw a property where the owner had a confederate flag on a flag pole out front. I commented to my wife at the time how backward that was.
The South, under the confederate flag, lost the civil war. The confederate flag remains a symbol of backward racial segrationist sentiment.
I oppose the sentiment of those that promote the use of the confederate flag. I also oppose those that detest racism, but somehow think reverse racism is okay.
There both very similar mindsets.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:02 pmA little off topic, but my posts were racism related.
And, I apologize for the botched links. The spamming was not intentional.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:05 pmI also see that responding to Arn’s GI bill post was off topic. My bad.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:06 pmThanks at least for being honest enough to answer the question backup. That said, I wouldn’t say that Sen. Obama’s pastor is indulging in racism. He is not saying that it’s OK to hate people of another race. He’s saying that actions have consequences. It’s not a threat, it’s natural law. Someday, those who have done wrong to people, will get theirs.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:09 pm*flagged* for continued spamming and off-topic posts.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:11 pmMatt. Thinkprogress normally posts a Thinkfast every morning. They haven’t posted one yet today.
I’d be bringing this topic up on Thinkfast, but since there isn’t one, I’m bringing it up on a thread that is race related, due to the association of the confederate flag to racial intolerance.
The Pfleger comments obviously have a racial component. For that reason, they have some commonality.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:18 pm#24 Rowan Berkeley. You are right. John Keynes, along with WWll got us out of the depression. The only way we’re gonna’ do it again is to relearn J.M.Keynes. Problem is, it’ll never happen in the USA. Here in Germany there are highly educated people writing about Sir John, and saying just that. In the US, he’s considered outmoded. But nice try anyway. Watch out for the scatter.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:25 pmPfleger is saying that Clinton was crying because she was upset that she was being upstaged by a black man. That’s not true. The racial nature of the comment is being used as a tool to incite the congregation. It is racism.
He also says that whites are and have been ‘raping’ blacks. That is very divisive language and I suggest would be considered obvious racism if the terms white and black were exchanged.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:29 pmWhere did Pfleger say the word Clinton?
May 31st, 2008 at 4:38 pmhttp://worldnetdaily.com/ index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65625
May 31st, 2008 at 4:45 pmOh, OK…hadn’t read that. So what? Did Hilary Clinton tell him that? Nope. So he doesn’t know. It’s quite reasonable to surmise that she’s upset because she’s upset that she’s lost the Democratic nomination. It’s smears like that which poison our political discourse. And quite frankly, WorldNetDaily is not an unbiased news provider. They traffic in some seriously conspiratorial nonsense and in many smears of Dems so I’m not particularly inclined to take their word seriously.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:48 pmIn his sermon, Pfleger added, “She wasn’t the only one crying. There was a whole lot of white people cryin’.”
The implication is that white people are upset that a black man would win the election.
I may not agree with some of Obama’s stands, but I would be thrilled, if we had a black president. It would help dispel some of the racial stigma that plague our country.
It is insulting to me, that someone wants to stereotype me (a white person) as wanting to deny a black man the opportunity to lead - only on the basis of his race.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:53 pmJust because those people are crying does not mean they’re crying because they feel that they’ve been outdone by a black man. If you wish to take that interpretation, that’s because you wish to take that interpretation. The reporting says nothing of the sort.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:00 pmThe Cap’n (backup) seems willing to stretch the definition of “racism” as far as he needs in order to get it to fit his political agenda.
And now I see, he asks us to condemn Obama not on his own actions or words, not even on his pastor’s words, but on the words of a man his pastor invited to speak at his church.
Damn. THAT’S some expansive personal responisibility.
Meanwhile, John McCain gets a pass on the crazy pastors whose endorsements he pursued because “he’s not responsible for what they say”. Hell, he’s not even responsible for what HE says.
interesting.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:33 pmralph. I would be surprised if you can’t recall that I have spoken out against Hagee for his remarks and McCain for his association with Hagee. If you want, I’ll find them and post them.
I’ll be back in later tonite, if you want me to find them.
This kind of racial bigotry isn’t okay from anyone.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:45 pmI proudly display a confederate flag on my Jeep and like I always say, its about heritage, not hate!
JJ
May 31st, 2008 at 6:09 pmWhats hiding on your hard drive?
The problem with the heritage is that it is almost universally associated with white separatism and racial intolerance.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:14 pmWhat a bunch of flaggots
May 31st, 2008 at 6:27 pmTo all wannabe confederate a**holes:
YOU LOST. GET OVER IT.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:33 pmHere’s hoping someone takes some kerosene and a match to that “world’s largest confederate flag”!
Ignorant sh*tkickers.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:36 pm“I proudly display a confederate flag on my Jeep and like I always say, its about heritage, not hate!”
Apparantly there aren’t any of those rules about how one properly displays this flag unless of course across the back of a jeep or preferably a F-150 is the proper way
May 31st, 2008 at 6:49 pmJohn W. Adams, a co-chair of the Confederate Veterans’ Flags Across Florida project says;
Whatever…
You lost, get over it.
It’s about lamenting the loss of the slave.
It’s about lamenting the loss of the Confederate.
It’s about lamenting the loss of a bi-America into one Nation.
Why do Confederates hate One Nation, with Liberty and Justice for ALL?
.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:23 pmmaybe when this project is complete, they can get to work created the world’s largest spider web tatoo
May 31st, 2008 at 7:33 pmPfleger is not a pastor at that church backup. Father Pfleger is a Catholic priest at St. Sabinas church in Chicago. And since the day he arrived in town has worked tirelessly trying to help inner city kids escape the traps of gangs and drugs and make something out of their lives. He has done more for his fellow man than probably any other Catholic priest or any Christian minister could even imagine doing. As did Reverend Wright.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:32 pmLook at the right wing blogs, or go to YouTube and look at the hate expressed towards Obama. THEN watch these same racists turn around and say “they’re picking on the white man.” Well boo freakin’ who. Black people use the “N” word and I don’t feel that’s really our business, nor is it OK if we use it. Father Pfleger is WHITE! How is it racist if a white man points out when white people say something racist.
MORE IMPORTANTLY, Father Pfleger made these comments the Sunday that Hillary Clinton’s comments about the assasination of Bobby Kennedy in June came out. Many of us, already worried about the risks Obama is taking with all the white extremists out there were VERY ANGRY at Hillary for her ridiculous comments.
I would love every one of you over sensitive white people complaining about how Pfleger’s comments were racist against white people to walk a mile in some brown persons shoes. Then come back and cry some about how white people in America are being picked on.
It is the weakest, most pathetic argument there is. And it is used by incompetent white people to place the blame on their failures on some minority.
AND, Obama just resigned from his church. I hope you people are happy. Now you can go back to calling him a Muslim, idiots.
I apologize, Cap’n. I see that the way I wrote my post made it sound like I was claiming that you gave McCain a pass on Hagee. I didn’t intend that. I was thinking more along the lines of the MSM gives McCain a pass.
My point about wildly expansive personal responsibility for Obama stands, though.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:35 pmJohn W. Adams, a co-chair of the Confederate Veterans’ Flags Across Florida project, insists the flag isn’t about racism or slavery. “It’s about honoring our ancestors and about celebrating our heritage,
Of course, their heritage includes racism and slavery, but that’s beside the point, isn’t it?
Come to think of it, what elements of their heritage do they have that are as prominent as racism and slavery?
May 31st, 2008 at 8:39 pm“Come to think of it, what elements of their heritage do they have that are as prominent as racism and slavery?”
Well there is that weird desire to chicken fry everything even chicken. Still you have to respect a well prepared bisquits and gravy
May 31st, 2008 at 8:58 pmWhat happened to backup? Oh who really cares.
May 31st, 2008 at 9:02 pmhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24908975
ralph. (and Shayne). I understand. Republicans and conservatives have a long way to go in race relations. I don’t give them a pass at all. Democrats and Progressives are in the lead, when it comes to tolerance and opposing bigotry. But, nobody’s perfect. Just because progressives are normally on the right side of tolerance, doesn’t mean it’s okay to ignore it when they aren’t.
Obama was put in a difficult position by the leadership and congregation of Trinity. I agreed with the way he handled the Wright situation and now I applaud the way he’s handled Pfleger’s comments.
I’m impressed with Obama’s leadership on this issue. It leads me to believe that he definitely deserves the Democratic nomination and makes Obama a more appealing candidate (for me) in the general.
May 31st, 2008 at 9:19 pmWell said, Cap’n. Well said.
May 31st, 2008 at 9:43 pm#75 Shayne
May 31st, 2008 at 10:30 pmExcellent post! I was gone all afternoon and as I gathered my thoughts for a post here, I saw that you said exactly what I intended to say.
So Ditto! from me.
You are absolutely right about both the priest and the minister. As for Obama, it is sad that he had to leave his church - but he will be living in Washington soon and he can attend church there.
I always wondered how Obama could be accused of being Muslim at the same time he was being blamed for his attendance at the christian church. Besides that, being Muslim is not a crime - but the right wing nuts would like everypne to believe so.
Civil war is over people… Your side lost.
P.S. The South is never gonna rise again.
May 31st, 2008 at 10:34 pmWorld’s largest piece of toilet paper to fly in Florida.
Bring your dirty bums and take a piece of history with you.
Sorry crackers.
Besides, the last flag the Confederates flew was the white flag of surrender, not the rebel flag.
-GSD
May 31st, 2008 at 11:35 pmThanks Marie. And bless Father Pfleger. And NO I’m not even Catholic.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:36 amWhat about a huge Nazi flag to remind all the Euroasians and Jews that they should all be exterminated?
June 1st, 2008 at 3:25 amIt is so nice that we’re ignoring that some of our greatest founding fathers had slaves. Yes, the Confederates had slaves and stoked the flames for the Civil War. Any person who read past the “we went to war for the slaves” part of Civil War history can tell you, like I am about to, that the slaves were practically a secondary reason at the onset of the war and it was more about economics than anything else. The lasting after effect was the freeing of the slaves. If you people are going to argue about the Civil War, please get some of the facts right. This nation was hardly any more tolerant in the north and needed religious leaders and scholars to help change racist views. And lets not forget that before, with Andrew Jackson and after in Reconstruction, that we didn’t exactly accept Native Americans, immigrants or our newly freed African American war buddies.
Our nation was born with the foot on the backs of people and it continues to this day. We can complain and gripe, but only through knowledge of the facts and action can it all change.
June 1st, 2008 at 3:32 amGOP is just another way to say KKK.
June 1st, 2008 at 4:29 amIt doesn’t look like it will be breaking any codes, so why not?
In other news, I’m now raising money for the World’s Largest Bear Flag, atop a 139.5 ft pole. It will be constructed in Tampa, in the lot across from SCV’s.
June 1st, 2008 at 6:29 amIt’s not a “heritage”, it’s a “stigma”. Or it should be. I grew up in the South of the 1960s. As a kid, 7-11 years old, we “celebrated” the Civil War Centennial. We had Civil War collector’s cards (like baseball cards, commemorating battles and “heroes” of the Old South). We played with toy muskets marketed by some outfit called (I’m not making this up) the Kadet Korps for Kids. It was marketed as something like a Boy Scout organization, with a little paramilitary flavor to it. Anybody else remember this thing?
June 1st, 2008 at 9:33 amIt wasn’t until the Selma march and the Bull Connor atrocities that (some) white Southerners like myself woke up to the reality of our Southern “heritage”.
Confederates, the reason we don’t fly your flag is the reason we don’t fly the British flag:
YOU LOST!
Get over it, losers.
June 1st, 2008 at 9:35 amWe also were taught in our segregated schools that the Civil War had NOTHING to do with slavery, that it was all about “State’s Rights”
June 1st, 2008 at 9:38 amAs a white Southerner, born and living in Tampa, let me just say that I can honor the bravery of Southern Confederate soldiers without using the Confederate flag that has become a very different symbol over the years. The Confederate flag is now a symbol of hatred and racism, and shouldn’t be flown in an honorable way ANYWHERE in the United States.
June 1st, 2008 at 10:42 amMy Great-Great Grandfather fought with the 15th Virginia Cavalry and his Cavalry sword and associated belt buckle and tattered belt were passed down to me. That makes me the son of a confederate veteran. I was born and raised south of the Mason-Dixon line. I’ve visited many if not most of the battlefields, and monuments, and museums honoring that conflict. I’ve been a lifelong student of it’s history. Of course, I honor and respect the individual bravery of all those who fought to decide the future of our nation; both blue and gray.
But, I despise the ignorance and racism and hatred of the Confederate cause. The Confederate flag has no place beyond museums meant to preserve history by displaying originals … like my Great-Great Grandfather’s sword is an original piece of history.
In my own opinion, anyone who seeks to reproduce, anew, those same symbols is doing so in order to declare and profess their personal belief in, and their desire to preserve and perpetuate the hatred, the racism, and the failed, wrong-headed causes of the Confederacy which sought to divide America. It is ignorant. It is stupid. It is racist, and it is UN-American. The Civil War settled the issue. This is the UNITED States of America, NOT the Confederate States of America. You can save your Dixie Cups and the South may rise again, but the Confederacy must not.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:17 pmWell said, bloggerradio.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:50 pmYou can speak with some authority.
The Confederate flag is the flag of treason and bigotry.
End of story. Tampa should be embarrassed and should speak against this, knowing it’s an act of free speech.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:39 pmThis is always so amazing to me. YOU LOST THE WAR!
June 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pmSons of Confederate Veterans=Surrender Monkeys.
June 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pmThe Confederate flag belongs in a museum, I guess over a Confederate Cemetary, but basically otherwise only on the scrap heap of history.
June 1st, 2008 at 6:40 pmWell, let’s see…
The American flag is currently the symbol of a nation that will attack another country that was of no threat to it, and then occupy that country for up to 100 years if a certain presidential candidate has his way. It is the symbol of a nation that would murder thousands of innocent people, simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could also be viewed as a symbol of a peoples that are hell-bent on increasing their control and influence in a particular part of the world for generations to come. And let’s not forget that it is a symbol of a government and citizens of this country that murdered Native Americans and stole their land, and then forced them to abandon that land (i.e. the Trail of Tears) in a massive relocation effort. 4000 Cherokees died along the way, and they couldn’t even give them a proper burial. I also remind everyone that the president at the time who supported this relocation is celebrated every day on the $20 bill, and he too was a slave owner.
If tomorrow a Native American or an Iraqi citizen walked up to any of you and declared that the American flag is a symbol of murder and theft, what would you say to them? That that is their opinion and you disagree? That the flag means different things to different people? That flying the American flag is “about honoring our ancestors and about celebrating our heritage”?
I do believe two prominent Americans who were considered two of the fathers of our country also were slave owners…George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, the latter of which, it is widely rumored, fathered a child (perhaps all 6 of her children) with one of his female slaves, Sally Hemmings. As for ol’ George, the Mount Vernon web site states that at the time of this death in 1799, there were over 300 slaves living on his estate.
What do you think of Washington and Jefferson? I’ve searched their names in this thread and while lots of folks have taken the people of the South to task for their support of slavery and denouncing the Confederate flag, I certainly don’t see anyone doing the same towards our three historically popular former presidents or our American flag that embodies the entire history of our country, and not just selected popular events from years past (like, oh, the winning of the Revolutionary War, the Declaration of Independence, the creation of the U.S. Constitution, rallying behind the flag after Pearl Harbor, celebrating the end of WWII, celebrating our bicentennial, etc.)
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:23 amCertainly, some people expressed themselves with dignity, intelligence and reason on both sides of this issue in these comments. Sadly, some seemed determined to prove their ignorance and total lack of social skills.
However, none of this really matters! The simple fact is this: those flying this flag have every right to do so. That right is given by God, not the government, not the culture and certainly not the army of politically correct organizations who triumphantly play “the race card” at every possible opportunity. That God-given right is protected under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution which for the time at least, is still in (partial) effect.
So, you see, it really doesn’t matter whether anyone here (myself included) approves or doesn’t approve of their actions. For some unknown reason, folks today seem to think that their opinions on issues or the actions of their fellow citizens carry sufficient weight to force people to do what they think is right or best! But that isn’t so. Like it or not, the First Amendment protects that flag and those who fly it.
I would suggest that the “nay-sayers” and hysterical critics of the Confederate flag monument do what so many good Southerners have been told over the years, that is, get over it!
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:31 amThe principles, that all of us hold dear and think universal, that were promulgated and established in the Declaration of Independence, the right of the people to form their own government, and the Constitution, the ninth and tenth amendments, were and are the same ones that are used to justify the secessionn of the Southern States from the Union and the subsequent formation of the Confederate States of America. These principles are the timeless legacy of those documents and we should all be proud of that legacy dispite the irony that they were mostly created by slaveowners - Thomas Jefferson, for the Declaration of Independence, and James Madison, for the Constitution.
Even Ol’dishonest Abe said that, “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right inclined to cases in which the whole people of an exitsting government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionise, and make their own so so much of the territory as they inhabit.”
Abe Lincoln, Jan. 12, 1848 - speech in Congress
Regardless of the reasons for the secession of the Southern States from the United States I can not see how anyone can support the right of the thirteen colonies to secede from the British Empire, while not supporting the right of the Southern States to secede from the United States. Doing so demonstrates intellectual hyprocrosy.
As for the “you lost, get over it” and the “it’s in the past and belongs in a museum” crowd, I can only say again, in case you didn’t get it the first time, that the principles established in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution support the Confederate side in this debate, and are “timeless and universal.” These are not matters strictly for the history books. And, by the way, did you not take history in school? Isn’t there a reason for all of us to learn our history? History is not to be forgotten and effects our course of action in the present and future.
And, as for those of you that think the South were traitors, then please show me one Confederate that was put on trial for treason. The United States wanted to put Jeff Davis, the president of the CSA, on trial for treason, but let him go, after holding him for two years, because the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court said that according to the Constitution secession was not treason and he could never be convicted.
Apparently, some of you are in need of a history lesson.
Deo Vindice
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 amDear Valerie,
God has nothing to do with the right to free speech. Our constitution gives that to you. Yes, stupid, racist, Southern yahoos have the right to celebrate treason. And each of us has the right, even the duty to denounce the fifth column traitorous racists.
The appropriate response will be to make a bigger flag that says “Ignorant, racists, traitors and proud of it!” and place it next to the ignorant, racist traitors’ flag.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:59 amDear Outhouse,
Thomas Jefferson promulgated in the Declaration of Independence that people are “endowed by their Creator with certain unalianable Rights…. ” That sounds like our rights come from God to me, but you are welcome to disagree with him. However, our rights are not “given” to us by the Constitution. The Constitution merely mentions some of them in order to better protect them from a government that means to restrict them. And, if you read the ninth and tenth amendments you can clearly see that there are rights and powers that we have which are not listed in the Constitution.
Now as for your response to Valerie I think your name says in all…. flush flush. Time for you to go back to school.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 amBeing an apologist for racism is very becoming. Just so you know.
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 pmPrecieving and stereotyping people as racist with no proof whatsoever is also, apparently, very becoming as well.
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:20 pmwoops - isn’t very becoming.
Nor is being a sore loser.
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:27 pmFlying a confederate flag == racist.
Apologizing for those who do == ??
Whatever.
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 pmPosts #100,101,and 102 were very thoughtful, and I have to admit I hadn’t looked at this issue that way before. While I still believe the Confederate flag symbolizes stigma, not heritage, I can see the merit in the points of view expressed in those posts.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:29 pmKnowing historical facts and the context in which events of the past occured === educated
Defending the declaration of Independence and the Constitution === patriotism
Accusing people of racism with no evidence === bigotry
Unwilling or unable to counter academic arguements with anything intelligable === myopic ingnorance
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:33 pmIt really isn’t my desire to get into the gutter with the likes of “outhouse,” but I have to respond when someone starts name-calling.
For what it’s worth, all of this clamor to take down the Confederate flags from around the country started after the NAACP convention in 1991 where they passed the following resolution:
“The 1991 N.A.A.C.P. Confederate Flag Resolution
Resolution Abhorring the Confederate Battle Flag
Approved.
Whereas, the tyrannical evil symbolized in the Confederate Battle Flag is an abhorrence to all Americans and decent people of this country, and indeed, the world and is an odious blight upon the universe; and,
Whereas, African-Americans, had no voice, no consultation, no concurrence, no commonality, not in fact nor in philosophy, in the vile conception of the Confederate Battle Flag or State Flags containing the ugly symbol of idiotic white supremacy racism and denigration; and,
Whereas, we adamantly reject the notion that African-Americans should accept this flag for any stretch of imagination or approve its presence on the State Flags;
Now Therefore Be It Resolved, that the National Office of the NAACP and all units commit their legal resources to the removal of the Confederate Flag from all public properties.”
Clearly, it was the NAACP that declared war on all images that were and are dedicated to our Southern heros of that era. Before that time, nobody complained these Southern images. After that convention, there has been a non stop attack on anything Southern that deals with the War for Southern Independence. Many great statesmen have had great things to say about the Southern leaders of that day, including Winston Churchill, Theodore Roosevelt and Dwight Eisonhower. For a very long time presidents would attend the Southern Memorial Day ceremony that occurs at Arlington National Cemetary and lay wreaths at the statue there. They do so no longer because of the “stigma” that the NAACP has attached to our flag. For those of you that think the CSA was racist, I think you should look at the picture of that statue at Arlington. You can find it on the internet easily. I forget the year it was made, but the maker was one, Moses Izekial (sp?). It portrays Confederate soldiers marching in profile and one can clearly see a Black Confederate soldier. Furthermore, Judah Benjamin, the Confederate Secretary of War and State and Treasury, at different times of course, was Jewish. Also the only Jewish military cemetary outside of Israel is a Confederate cemetary in Richmond, at Sockill (sp?) Hill. You can find that on the internet as well. The Sons of Confederate Veterns does not ask what your race or religion is when you join. That organization has Blacks, Hispanics, Jews and Native Americans within it. The United Daughters of the Confederacy is the same. Granted, most members of these organizations are white and I suppose Protestant. So what… Anyone can join.
It’s my understanding that the only flag that must be at Klan meeting is the Stars and Stripes. Furthermore, the Klan is anti-Black, anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish, anti-anyone that isn’t White and Protestant. Since I’m Roman Catholic that would mean that I’m persona non grata at the Klan.
Furthermore, If anyone can climb down from their racist name-calling soap box long enought to actually do some research into what the flag means they will discover that it is the St. Andrews Cross. St. Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland. In picking this flag it was understood that it would appeal to the soldiers sense of religion (there are no atheist in war, is the old saying) and since so many had Scottish ancestry in the South it would appeal to their patriotism as well.
In short the flag has nothing to do with racism. This is nothing but a boogieman thrown up by the NAACP to distract attention from the real issues that affect Blacks in the U.S. It’s a great issue for them. They come off as the offended party. They are able to raise large sums of money because of it. They are able to remain in the news gaining attention for themselves. In short, they are race baiters that are unable to put things in historical context or to acknowlege that thousands of Blacks fought for the South in this war. Furthermore, because all of this attention is focused on the non issue of the Confederate flag they can ignore the more pressing issues that take the back seat on the NAACP bus like, unwed teenage pregancies, the high crime rate and high drug abuse rate that statistics tell us affect Blacks in a greater rate then any other ethnic group in our society. It also serves to only inflame conflict in the U.S., especially in the South, where there shouldn’t be any. That’s a real shame. It is because of these attacks on Confederate flags, Confederate Street names, Schools named in honor of Confederates, parks named in honor of Confederates, etc., that this large flag is being raised. Keep it up NAACP, it only means more flags being raised and more members into groups like the Sons of Confederate Veterns.
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:20 pmI think the confederate flag represents the South. Don’t matter if your white, black, red or yellow, if you were born below the Mason/Dixon line this is your flag. The flag of the South.
Besides if blacks want to put up a flag or statue of Martin Luther King, we Don’t complain. WHY do they always have to complain about what others do?
We got toxic waste being dumped in our state and people are worried about a damn flag.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:05 pmI think the confederate flag represents the South. Don’t matter if your white, black, red or yellow, if you were born below the Mason/Dixon line this is your flag. The flag of the South.
Besides if blacks want to put up a flag or statue of Martin Luther King, we Don’t complain. WHY do they always have to complain about what others do?
We got toxic waste being dumped in our state and people are worried about a damn flag. — Pashensmeme
********************************************************
If I may play “devil’s advocate” for a moment (a temptation which I often find impossible to resist)…
With all due respect, I disagree with your argument on several points:
I think the confederate flag represents the South. Don’t matter if your white, black, red or yellow, if you were born below the Mason/Dixon line this is your flag. The flag of the South.
Uh, no. Sorry, but no. The Confederate Flag is not an equivalent to, say, the Gay Pride Flag as you seem to be suggesting. The Gay Pride Flag has never been used to represent a nation of people, whereas the Confederate Flag has — and not merely a separate nation, but one composed of people who deliberately chose to disassociate from and turn their backs upon the Republic. In my opinion, if you were born south of the Mason-Dixon line, your flag is — and if it isn’t, it damn well ought to be — the Stars And Stripes. Do you consider yourself part of this country, or don’t you? If you consider your flag to be the Confederate Flag — whether you’re willing to consciously acknowledge it or not — then what you’re implying is that you don’t consider yourself part of this country.
Let’s put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. How many Southerners would be inclined to criticize someone for hanging the flag of another country — say, one reflecting his/her ethnic heritage — outside his/her home? Quite a few, I imagine — but you can’t have it both ways! If you don’t consider it acceptable for them, then fairness dictates that it’s not acceptable for you either and claiming otherwise makes you a hypocrite.
Finally, putting another shoe on the other foot…what would be your interpretation of someone who chose to fly or carry the Nazi flag, or the Soviet flag? I think your assumption on the whole would be that the person carrying that flag shares the ideology associated with the extinct states which these flags represent. So how can you logically claim that the Confederate flag carries no such implication? Answer — YOU CAN’T. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, flying or carrying the Confederate flag on at least some level implies that the person in question shares the ideology of the Confederate States of America — namely, the desire to be separate from the Republic and a belief in the inherent superiority of the Caucasian race. Once again…do you want to be an American, or don’t you? It’s a question that at least some Southerners wouldn’t have any problem asking your average hyphenated American…but one which I very much doubt they would ever ask themselves.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 pmBluestocking states that if you consider the Confederate Battle flag to be your flag you believe in “the desire to be separate from the Republic and a belief in the inherent superiority of the Caucasian race.”
This is ridiculous. Most if not all white people in the 1800’s believed in the superiority of the “white race” and it didn’t have anything to do with the flag. I can easily demonstrate this by quoting Ol’dishonest Abe Lincoln:
“I will say, then, that I am not nor have every been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the black and white races — that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualiying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and policital equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”
4th Lincoln - Douglas debate, Sept. 18th, 1858; Collected Works Vol. 3, pp. 145-146
Now I’m sure you wish the world to remember how racist the South is, but before you open your mouth perhaps you need to do some research. Lincoln was as racist as any Southerner and if I remember correctly so was most of the Union Army and their generals. Grant and Sherman were notorious racists as well. Lincoln never said the war was being fought to end slavery. He did blame blacks for the war though, and wanted them to be colonized out of the U.S. throughout his time as President.
As I said before, the Declaration of Independence imbodies the principle of secession and the right of self government. If that isn’t what the Declaration of Independence is, then what is it? This belief, that all people everywhere have the right to create a government of their own choosing is the epitome of what it means to be an American. Furthermore, the Thirteen States, ever distrustful of an overbearing and tyranical “national” government included in the bill of rights the 9th and 10th Amendments to make sure that the “national” government would’t go to far in taking power away from the States and or the people. When the South seceded, they were just following in the footsteps of their forefathers that fought in the American Revolution. What could be more American than that?! That should be the epitome of what it means to be an American, whether you are born or live North or South of the Mason-Dixon Line. To be loyal to the principles laid down in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution is a greater virtue than to simply be loyal to your government or state or even your country. Because if your government or state or country turns bad, where then does your loyality lie?
I think, Bluestocking, that you need to be aware that our political don’t swear allegiance to the government or the country or even the people of this great republic when they are sworn into office. That might surprise you. They, in fact, swear feality to the Constitution of the United States. Specifically, the President says, “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of the President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Lincoln broke that convenant when he went to war against the C.S.A. During the war he continued to violate the Constitution in too many ways to mention. But the internet is replete with examples. You should look them up.
It was the Southern States, the Confederacy that was upholding the principles laid down in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution - not the North - unfortunately, not the United States of America.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:38 pmThe Rapeublican Party is the party of RACISTS.
From the old Dixiecrats who fled to the Rapeublican party because of civil rights, to Dick Cheney’s INCEST JOKE.
Racist, Jew-Haters, black-haters, haters of ANYTHING different than them, the RACISTS…
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pmDoes it make you feel powerful to bash a group of individuals you perceive as lower than yourselves? Is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, isn’t it?
It isn’t about race, please educate yourselves and google the civil war and Indians, Mexicans, African-Americans, Italian, Irish ect.They all fought and fought and for the South. The Secretary of the Confederate Treasury was a Jewish doctor. The race allegations are laughable. Honoring of our ancestors is more about their personal stories that have been past on from generation to generation. Horror stories of what our great-grandparents went through, without fathers, not being able to vote for nearly twenty years, taxing us off of our land and the list goes on.There wasn’t anything “Civil” about the Civil war. By definition they were not fighting a “Civil War” they had no in intention of taking Washington D.C..It was “The War Between the States. States rights superceded Federal rights at that time anyway. They wanted to succeed from Federal Tyranny and go back to a Constitutional Government that our founding fathers intended.The South has paid and paid dearly, must you continue to beat a dead horse?
P.S.The difference between flying a foreign country’s flag and flying the confederate flag, is this IS the land that the confederate flag flew over, we never left. Foreign flags represent to me, the taking of land.
June 4th, 2008 at 11:16 amUnacceptable. I’m simply at a loss for words.
June 6th, 2008 at 9:53 amThe people that don’t respect us and our rights to honor our ancestry and heritage should not be on our lands.
A group of the powers that be in Hillsboro County refused to allow us to give honor and respect to Gen. Robert E. Lee, Pres. Jefferson Davis in our own land. They have come into our communities and forced their evil will upon us. Therefore, let it be known that the gloves are off!
“The flag that we know as the Confederate battle flag was used by many —but by no means all — Confederate military units during the War for Southern Independence (1861-1865). It was their flag, and they alone had the right to interpret its meaning. When the war was over, the Confederate soldiers became Confederate veterans. They formed an organization known as the United Confederate Veterans. The Confederate battle flag was still their flag and they alone had the right to interpret its meaning.
In 1896, since many of the Confederate veterans were aged, infirm, and dying off, the Sons of Confederate Veterans was formed as the successor organization to the United Confederate Veterans. The legacy and authority of the United Confederate Veterans was transferred to them over the next 10 years. This transfer of power culminated in a speech given April 25, 1906 at New Orleans, La., by Stephen Dill Lee, Confederate lieutenant general and commander-in-chief of the United Confederate Veterans:
“To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we will commit the vindication of the cause for which we fought. To your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier’s good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, the perpetuation of those principles which he loved and which you love also, and those ideals which made him glorious and which you also cherish. Remember, it is your duty to see that the true history of the South is presented to future generations.”
Since April 25, 1906, therefore, the Confederate battle flag has been the flag of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. They alone have the right to interpret its meaning. They have interpreted its meaning and explained repeatedly that meaning — and it is not hatred, nor is it bigotry. The Confederate battle flag is not the flag of the Kluxers and other malcontents of their ilk. They do not have the right to interpret its meaning. The Confederate battle flag is not the flag of the NAACP. They do not have the right to interpret its meaning.”
St. Andrews Cross is Still A Flying
THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG IS NOT ABOUT RACE
June 7th, 2008 at 12:55 amIT NEVER WAS
IT STANDS UP AGAINST TYRANNY
To all you abusive race baiters out there and posting here, the only thing I would do different is FLY THE BLACK FLAG UNDER THE CONFEDERATE FLAG.
continuing to bash and lie about the South, the War, and spread myths about slavery is the relic. I don’t have the time to make arguments to a brick wall so enuff said. Besides the Southern blacks know the war was not about freeing them. Ask jeremiah wright. Teach thyself
June 7th, 2008 at 1:27 amSquirm Liberals!
I love it! I truly love to watch you libs squirm and moan and cry about the hateful rednecks … the sore loosers who just can’t sit in the circle and sing “cumbayah” or whatever the hell it is you liberals like to do together.
You know what is so great about this? It’s on private property owned by some rich white dudes, and you can’t do a damn thing about it. Isn’t that just the cat’s ass!
Of course, we all know old Barry Obama will fix everything when he gets the keys to the massah’s cabin right? He won’t bother with that pesky old constitution framed by greedy white merchants and slave masters. No! He’ll put things right by you libs. Yeah, he’ll take away our guns, tax us into poverty, and put the final nail into the coffin of our religious freedoms. Then all you homosexual, atheist, baby-killing, America-hating, pot-smoking, socialists will finally have the utopia you’ve always dreamed of right?
Let me tell you leftist scumbags why that flag makes you squirm. Because the very fact that it is there is a stark reminder that you will NEVER achieve your pathetic goals. It reminds you that there are millions of us “hateful rednecks.” Hateful rednecks that love their country, love God, love the Constitution, and despise you. Oh, and I might add, are extremely heavily armed. So … bring it on you libs! I can’t wait for your “progressive revolution” to begin!
August 4th, 2008 at 8:01 pm