I love it! I truly love to watch you libs squirm and moan and cry about the hateful rednecks … the sore loosers who just can’t sit in the circle and sing “cumbayah” or whatever the hell it is you liberals like to do together.

You know what is so great about this? It’s on private property owned by some rich white dudes, and you can’t do a damn thing about it. Isn’t that just the cat’s ass!

Of course, we all know old Barry Obama will fix everything when he gets the keys to the massah’s cabin right? He won’t bother with that pesky old constitution framed by greedy white merchants and slave masters. No! He’ll put things right by you libs. Yeah, he’ll take away our guns, tax us into poverty, and put the final nail into the coffin of our religious freedoms. Then all you homosexual, atheist, baby-killing, America-hating, pot-smoking, socialists will finally have the utopia you’ve always dreamed of right?

Let me tell you leftist scumbags why that flag makes you squirm. Because the very fact that it is there is a stark reminder that you will NEVER achieve your pathetic goals. It reminds you that there are millions of us “hateful rednecks.” Hateful rednecks that love their country, love God, love the Constitution, and despise you. Oh, and I might add, are extremely heavily armed. So … bring it on you libs! I can’t wait for your “progressive revolution” to begin!

continuing to bash and lie about the South, the War, and spread myths about slavery is the relic. I don’t have the time to make arguments to a brick wall so enuff said. Besides the Southern blacks know the war was not about freeing them. Ask jeremiah wright. Teach thyself

A group of the powers that be in Hillsboro County refused to allow us to give honor and respect to Gen. Robert E. Lee, Pres. Jefferson Davis in our own land. They have come into our communities and forced their evil will upon us. Therefore, let it be known that the gloves are off!

“The flag that we know as the Confederate battle flag was used by many —but by no means all — Confederate military units during the War for Southern Independence (1861-1865). It was their flag, and they alone had the right to interpret its meaning. When the war was over, the Confederate soldiers became Confederate veterans. They formed an organization known as the United Confederate Veterans. The Confederate battle flag was still their flag and they alone had the right to interpret its meaning.

In 1896, since many of the Confederate veterans were aged, infirm, and dying off, the Sons of Confederate Veterans was formed as the successor organization to the United Confederate Veterans. The legacy and authority of the United Confederate Veterans was transferred to them over the next 10 years. This transfer of power culminated in a speech given April 25, 1906 at New Orleans, La., by Stephen Dill Lee, Confederate lieutenant general and commander-in-chief of the United Confederate Veterans:

“To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we will commit the vindication of the cause for which we fought. To your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier’s good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, the perpetuation of those principles which he loved and which you love also, and those ideals which made him glorious and which you also cherish. Remember, it is your duty to see that the true history of the South is presented to future generations.”

Since April 25, 1906, therefore, the Confederate battle flag has been the flag of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. They alone have the right to interpret its meaning. They have interpreted its meaning and explained repeatedly that meaning — and it is not hatred, nor is it bigotry. The Confederate battle flag is not the flag of the Kluxers and other malcontents of their ilk. They do not have the right to interpret its meaning. The Confederate battle flag is not the flag of the NAACP. They do not have the right to interpret its meaning.”

St. Andrews Cross is Still A Flying

THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG IS NOT ABOUT RACE
IT NEVER WAS
IT STANDS UP AGAINST TYRANNY

P.S.The difference between flying a foreign country’s flag and flying the confederate flag, is this IS the land that the confederate flag flew over, we never left. Foreign flags represent to me, the taking of land.

This is ridiculous. Most if not all white people in the 1800’s believed in the superiority of the “white race” and it didn’t have anything to do with the flag. I can easily demonstrate this by quoting Ol’dishonest Abe Lincoln:

“I will say, then, that I am not nor have every been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the black and white races — that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualiying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and policital equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

4th Lincoln – Douglas debate, Sept. 18th, 1858; Collected Works Vol. 3, pp. 145-146

Now I’m sure you wish the world to remember how racist the South is, but before you open your mouth perhaps you need to do some research. Lincoln was as racist as any Southerner and if I remember correctly so was most of the Union Army and their generals. Grant and Sherman were notorious racists as well. Lincoln never said the war was being fought to end slavery. He did blame blacks for the war though, and wanted them to be colonized out of the U.S. throughout his time as President.

As I said before, the Declaration of Independence imbodies the principle of secession and the right of self government. If that isn’t what the Declaration of Independence is, then what is it? This belief, that all people everywhere have the right to create a government of their own choosing is the epitome of what it means to be an American. Furthermore, the Thirteen States, ever distrustful of an overbearing and tyranical “national” government included in the bill of rights the 9th and 10th Amendments to make sure that the “national” government would’t go to far in taking power away from the States and or the people. When the South seceded, they were just following in the footsteps of their forefathers that fought in the American Revolution. What could be more American than that?! That should be the epitome of what it means to be an American, whether you are born or live North or South of the Mason-Dixon Line. To be loyal to the principles laid down in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution is a greater virtue than to simply be loyal to your government or state or even your country. Because if your government or state or country turns bad, where then does your loyality lie?

I think, Bluestocking, that you need to be aware that our political don’t swear allegiance to the government or the country or even the people of this great republic when they are sworn into office. That might surprise you. They, in fact, swear feality to the Constitution of the United States. Specifically, the President says, “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of the President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Lincoln broke that convenant when he went to war against the C.S.A. During the war he continued to violate the Constitution in too many ways to mention. But the internet is replete with examples. You should look them up.

It was the Southern States, the Confederacy that was upholding the principles laid down in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution – not the North – unfortunately, not the United States of America.

Besides if blacks want to put up a flag or statue of Martin Luther King, we Don’t complain. WHY do they always have to complain about what others do?

We got toxic waste being dumped in our state and people are worried about a damn flag. — Pashensmeme

********************************************************

If I may play “devil’s advocate” for a moment (a temptation which I often find impossible to resist)…

With all due respect, I disagree with your argument on several points:

I think the confederate flag represents the South. Don’t matter if your white, black, red or yellow, if you were born below the Mason/Dixon line this is your flag. The flag of the South.

Uh, no. Sorry, but no. The Confederate Flag is not an equivalent to, say, the Gay Pride Flag as you seem to be suggesting. The Gay Pride Flag has never been used to represent a nation of people, whereas the Confederate Flag has — and not merely a separate nation, but one composed of people who deliberately chose to disassociate from and turn their backs upon the Republic. In my opinion, if you were born south of the Mason-Dixon line, your flag is — and if it isn’t, it damn well ought to be — the Stars And Stripes. Do you consider yourself part of this country, or don’t you? If you consider your flag to be the Confederate Flag — whether you’re willing to consciously acknowledge it or not — then what you’re implying is that you don’t consider yourself part of this country.

Let’s put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. How many Southerners would be inclined to criticize someone for hanging the flag of another country — say, one reflecting his/her ethnic heritage — outside his/her home? Quite a few, I imagine — but you can’t have it both ways! If you don’t consider it acceptable for them, then fairness dictates that it’s not acceptable for you either and claiming otherwise makes you a hypocrite.

Finally, putting another shoe on the other foot…what would be your interpretation of someone who chose to fly or carry the Nazi flag, or the Soviet flag? I think your assumption on the whole would be that the person carrying that flag shares the ideology associated with the extinct states which these flags represent. So how can you logically claim that the Confederate flag carries no such implication? Answer — YOU CAN’T. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, flying or carrying the Confederate flag on at least some level implies that the person in question shares the ideology of the Confederate States of America — namely, the desire to be separate from the Republic and a belief in the inherent superiority of the Caucasian race. Once again…do you want to be an American, or don’t you? It’s a question that at least some Southerners wouldn’t have any problem asking your average hyphenated American…but one which I very much doubt they would ever ask themselves.

We got toxic waste being dumped in our state and people are worried about a damn flag.

For what it’s worth, all of this clamor to take down the Confederate flags from around the country started after the NAACP convention in 1991 where they passed the following resolution:

“The 1991 N.A.A.C.P. Confederate Flag Resolution

Resolution Abhorring the Confederate Battle Flag

Approved.

Whereas, the tyrannical evil symbolized in the Confederate Battle Flag is an abhorrence to all Americans and decent people of this country, and indeed, the world and is an odious blight upon the universe; and,

Whereas, African-Americans, had no voice, no consultation, no concurrence, no commonality, not in fact nor in philosophy, in the vile conception of the Confederate Battle Flag or State Flags containing the ugly symbol of idiotic white supremacy racism and denigration; and,

Whereas, we adamantly reject the notion that African-Americans should accept this flag for any stretch of imagination or approve its presence on the State Flags;

Now Therefore Be It Resolved, that the National Office of the NAACP and all units commit their legal resources to the removal of the Confederate Flag from all public properties.”

Clearly, it was the NAACP that declared war on all images that were and are dedicated to our Southern heros of that era. Before that time, nobody complained these Southern images. After that convention, there has been a non stop attack on anything Southern that deals with the War for Southern Independence. Many great statesmen have had great things to say about the Southern leaders of that day, including Winston Churchill, Theodore Roosevelt and Dwight Eisonhower. For a very long time presidents would attend the Southern Memorial Day ceremony that occurs at Arlington National Cemetary and lay wreaths at the statue there. They do so no longer because of the “stigma” that the NAACP has attached to our flag. For those of you that think the CSA was racist, I think you should look at the picture of that statue at Arlington. You can find it on the internet easily. I forget the year it was made, but the maker was one, Moses Izekial (sp?). It portrays Confederate soldiers marching in profile and one can clearly see a Black Confederate soldier. Furthermore, Judah Benjamin, the Confederate Secretary of War and State and Treasury, at different times of course, was Jewish. Also the only Jewish military cemetary outside of Israel is a Confederate cemetary in Richmond, at Sockill (sp?) Hill. You can find that on the internet as well. The Sons of Confederate Veterns does not ask what your race or religion is when you join. That organization has Blacks, Hispanics, Jews and Native Americans within it. The United Daughters of the Confederacy is the same. Granted, most members of these organizations are white and I suppose Protestant. So what… Anyone can join.

It’s my understanding that the only flag that must be at Klan meeting is the Stars and Stripes. Furthermore, the Klan is anti-Black, anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish, anti-anyone that isn’t White and Protestant. Since I’m Roman Catholic that would mean that I’m persona non grata at the Klan.

Furthermore, If anyone can climb down from their racist name-calling soap box long enought to actually do some research into what the flag means they will discover that it is the St. Andrews Cross. St. Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland. In picking this flag it was understood that it would appeal to the soldiers sense of religion (there are no atheist in war, is the old saying) and since so many had Scottish ancestry in the South it would appeal to their patriotism as well.

In short the flag has nothing to do with racism. This is nothing but a boogieman thrown up by the NAACP to distract attention from the real issues that affect Blacks in the U.S. It’s a great issue for them. They come off as the offended party. They are able to raise large sums of money because of it. They are able to remain in the news gaining attention for themselves. In short, they are race baiters that are unable to put things in historical context or to acknowlege that thousands of Blacks fought for the South in this war. Furthermore, because all of this attention is focused on the non issue of the Confederate flag they can ignore the more pressing issues that take the back seat on the NAACP bus like, unwed teenage pregancies, the high crime rate and high drug abuse rate that statistics tell us affect Blacks in a greater rate then any other ethnic group in our society. It also serves to only inflame conflict in the U.S., especially in the South, where there shouldn’t be any. That’s a real shame. It is because of these attacks on Confederate flags, Confederate Street names, Schools named in honor of Confederates, parks named in honor of Confederates, etc., that this large flag is being raised. Keep it up NAACP, it only means more flags being raised and more members into groups like the Sons of Confederate Veterns.

Defending the declaration of Independence and the Constitution === patriotism

Accusing people of racism with no evidence === bigotry

Unwilling or unable to counter academic arguements with anything intelligable === myopic ingnorance

Apologizing for those who do == ??

Whatever.

Nor is being a sore loser.

Thomas Jefferson promulgated in the Declaration of Independence that people are “endowed by their Creator with certain unalianable Rights…. ” That sounds like our rights come from God to me, but you are welcome to disagree with him. However, our rights are not “given” to us by the Constitution. The Constitution merely mentions some of them in order to better protect them from a government that means to restrict them. And, if you read the ninth and tenth amendments you can clearly see that there are rights and powers that we have which are not listed in the Constitution.

Now as for your response to Valerie I think your name says in all…. flush flush. Time for you to go back to school.

God has nothing to do with the right to free speech. Our constitution gives that to you. Yes, stupid, racist, Southern yahoos have the right to celebrate treason. And each of us has the right, even the duty to denounce the fifth column traitorous racists.

The appropriate response will be to make a bigger flag that says “Ignorant, racists, traitors and proud of it!” and place it next to the ignorant, racist traitors’ flag.

Even Ol’dishonest Abe said that, “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right inclined to cases in which the whole people of an exitsting government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionise, and make their own so so much of the territory as they inhabit.”

Abe Lincoln, Jan. 12, 1848 – speech in Congress

Regardless of the reasons for the secession of the Southern States from the United States I can not see how anyone can support the right of the thirteen colonies to secede from the British Empire, while not supporting the right of the Southern States to secede from the United States. Doing so demonstrates intellectual hyprocrosy.

As for the “you lost, get over it” and the “it’s in the past and belongs in a museum” crowd, I can only say again, in case you didn’t get it the first time, that the principles established in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution support the Confederate side in this debate, and are “timeless and universal.” These are not matters strictly for the history books. And, by the way, did you not take history in school? Isn’t there a reason for all of us to learn our history? History is not to be forgotten and effects our course of action in the present and future.

And, as for those of you that think the South were traitors, then please show me one Confederate that was put on trial for treason. The United States wanted to put Jeff Davis, the president of the CSA, on trial for treason, but let him go, after holding him for two years, because the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court said that according to the Constitution secession was not treason and he could never be convicted.

Apparently, some of you are in need of a history lesson.

Deo Vindice

However, none of this really matters! The simple fact is this: those flying this flag have every right to do so. That right is given by God, not the government, not the culture and certainly not the army of politically correct organizations who triumphantly play “the race card” at every possible opportunity. That God-given right is protected under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution which for the time at least, is still in (partial) effect.

So, you see, it really doesn’t matter whether anyone here (myself included) approves or doesn’t approve of their actions. For some unknown reason, folks today seem to think that their opinions on issues or the actions of their fellow citizens carry sufficient weight to force people to do what they think is right or best! But that isn’t so. Like it or not, the First Amendment protects that flag and those who fly it.

I would suggest that the “nay-sayers” and hysterical critics of the Confederate flag monument do what so many good Southerners have been told over the years, that is, get over it!

The American flag is currently the symbol of a nation that will attack another country that was of no threat to it, and then occupy that country for up to 100 years if a certain presidential candidate has his way. It is the symbol of a nation that would murder thousands of innocent people, simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could also be viewed as a symbol of a peoples that are hell-bent on increasing their control and influence in a particular part of the world for generations to come. And let’s not forget that it is a symbol of a government and citizens of this country that murdered Native Americans and stole their land, and then forced them to abandon that land (i.e. the Trail of Tears) in a massive relocation effort. 4000 Cherokees died along the way, and they couldn’t even give them a proper burial. I also remind everyone that the president at the time who supported this relocation is celebrated every day on the $20 bill, and he too was a slave owner.

If tomorrow a Native American or an Iraqi citizen walked up to any of you and declared that the American flag is a symbol of murder and theft, what would you say to them? That that is their opinion and you disagree? That the flag means different things to different people? That flying the American flag is “about honoring our ancestors and about celebrating our heritage”?

I do believe two prominent Americans who were considered two of the fathers of our country also were slave owners…George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, the latter of which, it is widely rumored, fathered a child (perhaps all 6 of her children) with one of his female slaves, Sally Hemmings. As for ol’ George, the Mount Vernon web site states that at the time of this death in 1799, there were over 300 slaves living on his estate.

What do you think of Washington and Jefferson? I’ve searched their names in this thread and while lots of folks have taken the people of the South to task for their support of slavery and denouncing the Confederate flag, I certainly don’t see anyone doing the same towards our three historically popular former presidents or our American flag that embodies the entire history of our country, and not just selected popular events from years past (like, oh, the winning of the Revolutionary War, the Declaration of Independence, the creation of the U.S. Constitution, rallying behind the flag after Pearl Harbor, celebrating the end of WWII, celebrating our bicentennial, etc.)