‘Marginalized’ Southerners Clamor For Right To Display ‘World’s Largest’ Confederate Flag
‘Marginalized’ Southerners Clamor For Right To Display ‘World’s Largest’ Confederate Flag
As ThinkProgress noted last weekend, the “world’s largest” Confederate flag will soon be flying over Tampa at one of the nation’s busiest intersections. The backers of the project — the Sons of Confederate Veterans — insist the flag isn’t about racism or slavery but rather “honoring our ancestors and about celebrating our heritage.”
The Tampa Tribune reports that the flag was raised on Tuesday to celebrate “Confederacy President Jefferson Davis’ birthday,” but was taken down Tuesday night. At a county commission meeting on Wednesday, local officials said they did not have the legal authority to prevent the flag from being flown, but are urging the Sons group not to go ahead with its plans.
This morning, Fox and Friends hosted Marion Lambert of the Sons group to explain why he was pushing for the flag display. When asked what dialogue he is trying to generate, Lambert answered, “Well, you see, Southerners have been marginalized for the last 20-25 years.” He feigned ignorance about the flag’s divisive history:
FOX: Not only is the Confederate flag, as you say, a symbol of Southern heritage. It also has become a symbol of racism and bigotry. The KKK uses it. Do you understand how hurtful and offensive your flying this massive flag may be to some people?
LAMBERT: No I don’t. Specifically because it’s well known that the KKK flies a US flag and a Christian flag. And so why aren’t those flags…embodied within that understanding of hatred…It flies in the face of reason that we demonize this particular flag.
After Lambert spoke, Fox hosted Curtis Stokes, president of NAACP chapter in Tampa, who argued that Lambert’s actions “fly in the face of human decency.” Watch it:
“There is a right way and wrong way to respect history,” said Michelle Williams of the Community Activists of Public Affairs. “You don’t see us out there flying flags of lynching.” Local black citizens have “threatened an economic boycott and protests that could sully the county’s image as the nation focuses on Tampa in January as the site of the Super Bowl.”
The massive Confederate flag, which will be hoisted on private property just off Interstate 75, costs $800 and was made in China.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
The massive Confederate flag, which will be hoisted on private property just off Interstate 75, costs $800 and was made in China.
How apropos. This goes right along with the Republics’ Flag pins, no doubt. I don’t have a problem with the Confederate Flag. Just like ours, it’s just a symbol. If a symbol could hurt us, we’d all already have been killed by overweight, loud elephants that resemble Imhofe & Boner.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:17 amThey are going to fly a flag made in China??
June 5th, 2008 at 10:19 amHow about the local Democratic Party sponsoring a Counter Flag Day (gee, what is June 14?) and surrounding the Confederate flag with a thousand Democrats holding a thousand made-in=America U.S. flags?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:21 amWhat a bunch of flaggots.
I encourage ALL bigots to fly the stars n bars, that way we know who NOT to hire, NOT to listen to, and who to IGNORE.
Might as well paint ’stupid’ on your forehead.
Let these rednecks have their flag. Of course, Disney may not appreciate the bigotry being represented so close to their ‘it’s a small world’ display.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:21 amWhat is it with the South and Florida in particular. I’ve lived in these parts for 25 years and that vocal segment who pine for Dixie under the guise of rememberance never cease to amaze me. The Confederate battle flag is offensive to many which is why it is beloved by the few. As for no law preventing someone from flying it, my view has always been that the South lost the Civil War, therefore, the act of flying it is an act of treason against the United States? There’s your law, go enforce it. Bet we’ll cease having to deal with this silliness soon enough.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:21 amMaybe we should start writing Disney about a boycott if they don’t move out of the racist state of Florida and take all their tourist dollars with them.
Rednecks will only hold on to their ideals until it hits them in the wallet.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:23 amThere are two ways to regard the Confederate flag:
1. It was the battle flag of the Confederate army. In this sense, it is historical and merely represents the heritage of the South during Civil War days. This is fine.
2. It is a symbol that was resurrected during the period of school desegregation and flown over state capitols in the South as a sign of resistance to the civil rights movement. Because of this, it was also adopted as a symbol by the KKK.
It is this second way of considering the significance of the Confederate flag that is troublesome. It begs the question — just what is the purpose of flying it today?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:23 amMaybe we should just continue to loudly call them “FLAGGOTS”, since it sounds so similar to another group that these rednecks fear so much.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:24 amwhat a coincidence, now that a black man has won as the Democratic nominee, now is when these southerners feel marginalized and want to fly their rebel flag.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:26 amFlaggots, Ranting Tommy…I like it!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:27 amWasn’t the Civil War started by the attack on Fort Sumnter?
Wouldn’t attacking a U.S. military installation be considered a terrorist act today?
Therefore isn’t the Confederate flag a symbol of terrorism?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:27 amwhether or not it is a symbol of southern history, I just think it’s a real huge coincidence.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:27 amif it falls under civil war, I think not.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:29 amMarion Lambert just doesn’t get it. Flying a Confederate battle flag to show southern pride makes about as much sense as flying a Nazi swastika to show German pride.
As a resident of a southern state (NC) for the past 16 years, I can say that there are many, many wonderful things about the south that southerners can rightly be proud of. So why demonstrate this pride by calling attention to a war that was fought over an institution that almost all of us consider highly repugnant today? Oh yes — the Confederate apologists will insist that the war “wasn’t about slavery”, but let’s face it — if not for that issue, the war wouldn’t have happened.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:29 amTampa is for troglodytes and traitors.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:30 amZimzone Says:
Flaggots, Ranting Tommy…I like it!
To show your appreciation, please make a donation to the Ranting Tommy Defense Fund. Flaggots is a great one so I double my donation!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:31 amI wonder if the flag is made of two different fabrics. We need a Defense of Fabric Amendment to protect us from such immorality and abomination. Ban cotton/wool blends.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:32 amthe flag isn’t about racism or slavery but rather “honoring our ancestors and about celebrating our heritage.”
Their heritage is about racism and slavery, but that’s beside the point.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:32 amI wonder what they would say if someone flew the Chinese flag on the same pole?
I dont much care either way, but I wager that would not go over well at all with this group, even though their flag was made in China.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:34 amKeep it up guys. Anythign that gets blacks riled up and motivated to go make a difference is good for our side…
June 5th, 2008 at 10:35 amPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
“I wonder if the flag is made of two different fabrics.”
I wonder if the fabric is flammable.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:40 amI’m not surprised about this. the racism and hatred of the north is alive and well in the south. During a short stint at NAS Memphis, I saw this type of stuff first-hand. Those people are literally still fighting the civil war-more than 100 years after it ended.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:43 amI’m not surprised about this. the racism and hatred of the north is alive and well in the south. During a short stint at NAS Memphis, I saw this type of stuff first-hand. Those people are literally still fighting the civil war-more than 100 years after it ended.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:43 amWe always called those guys flaggots when they protested in Atlanta (they had to drive down from the hills to get to Atlanta) when the Governor took that hideous symbol off our state flag.
I would yell it out my car window at the dozen or so protesters outside the capital. They would all turn redder than their necks.
It is definitely effective.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:44 amsorry about the double post
June 5th, 2008 at 10:44 amI wonder what Lou Dobbs will have to say about this; he who got so exercised about the Mexican flag being carried by immigrants during their protests, and rails on about hyphenated ethnic references, including Irish-American.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:44 amPLC, are you suggesting that the flag presents the threat of mis-sedge-enation? The horror…the horror…
June 5th, 2008 at 10:45 amWith the first African-American to be backed by a major party running for President, I imagine we will see lots of signs of racism over the next several months.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:45 amThey raise an interesting issue. Despite the fact the every president since Carter had needed southern support to win, they feel “marginalized.” This does seem to go to some deeper issues, and reflect some of the matters that Sen. Obama discussed in his great speech regarding race. Unfortunately, they are not the type to listen to a guy from Chicago, so I’m sure they never heard about it.
That being said, given that most of those “right to work” southerners screwed over the notherners (”THEY STOLE OUR JOBS!”), I’m really not all that upset by their plight.
They sure don’t seem to upset about how Detroit autoworkers.
In any case, isn’t America great? Even people like this have First Amendment rights?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:46 amI would think that flying the flag of a group that rose up against the United States would be considered unpatriotic in the least.
Of course, flaggots don’t have room in their skulls for thinking. Most of the space is taken up by hate.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:46 amDammit! I hit the wrong key! It should have read “mis-serge-enation!” Well, that moment’s lost…
Florida Secession 2008
June 5th, 2008 at 10:47 amWould it be a stretch to say that these AssKlowns are part of the group making up the Dubya 25%ers?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:47 amAfter they display it do they plan to “chicken fry” it?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:49 amI’ve always thought that another measure for countering the KKK and the rebel flag is for a group to apply for a trademark of these symbols and names, then sue anyone who uses them.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:49 amWow, first argument I’ve heard from the ‘defending slavery’ angle, even from flaggots
Leave it to a flaggot sympathizer like rogers to defend slavery
June 5th, 2008 at 10:50 amSoutherner’s have been marginalized for 25 years ?
What a steaming pile of hogshit !!!!
They’ve been courted by and catered to the ruling party in this country for the past
June 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am8 years. We are witnessing the results of southern political desires right now
It’s time for these thin-skinned babies to stop whining about some perceived
injustice.
Fly your flag, you goddam twit. just stop holding the country back by voting your
ignorance and fears
Every Thanksgiving, many of these flaggots burn down their homes in an attempt to deep-fry a turkey.
Just a little bit of Darwin in action.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:51 amFLAGGOTS…
Hmmm…Me likes it.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:51 amDorothy, please remove your StrawMan from aisle 33.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:52 amWondering why they were so marginalized that they were unable to scrape together enough money to have it made in the USA. Paying the Chinese to fashion their flag is the ultimate slight to their honored ancestors.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:57 amThe only period of “southern heritage” the confederate battle flag commemorates was the period from 1861 to 1865 when thirteen states voluntarily entered into a state of rebellion against the United States government. The flag did not exist before the rebellion and had no significance other than as a symbol of rebellion (such as massive resistance to Brown v. Board of Education and subsequent school desegregation decisions) against the laws of the United States afterwards. I was born in the south, lived in Virginia and Tennessee a combined 25 years and still don’t know what is more incredible, the fact that so many ignorant people openly embrace a symbol of bigotry and hatred or that so many ignorant people embrace the primary symbol of a losing rebellion that cost hundreds of thousands of American lives. Pathetic.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:58 amSo, can we now ‘Flag Flaggots’ here?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:58 amAll those that continue to defend it in the 21st century should most definitely NOT be respected.
That means you, flaggot.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:00 amLet the Flaggot Flagging begin!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:00 amor should it be ‘Flogging’?
O wait, thats what the flaggots support.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:01 amThey’re like a bunch of rude frat boys. Things would go a lot smoother in this country if they’d grow up, respect their friends and neighbors and realize we’re all in this together.
Who am I kidding? Rove and his merry band have been gleefully driving a wedge between these folks and us as long as I can remember.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:02 amSadly, there were/are likely many in this country who did and maybe still do support the goals of the Third Reich. After all, George W. Bush’s grandfather, US Senator Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. His business dealings with the Nazis continued until his company’s assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act (remember, war was declared on Germany in December, 1941). For more details, go to — http://www.guardian.co.uk/ world/ 2004/ sep/ 25/ usa.secondworldwar
Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939. Great Britain declared war on Germany two days later, on September 3, 1939. The United States did not declare war on Germany until more than twenty-seven months later, on December 11, 1941. This would suggest that the people of the United States were not uniformly opposed to Hitler until after Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.
There are most certainly many in this country who either served in Hitler’s army (and moved here after the war), descended from those who fought for the Nazis, or were otherwise connected with or related to those who fought for the Third Reich. Many who died trying to advance Hitler’s aims likely believed that what they were doing was patriotic, following the guidance of a powerful leader who claimed that he was carrying out God’s work.
Flying the Confederate flag could be justified under the First Amendment, however, those who lost loved ones who fought for Hitler’s Nazi Germany could similarly wish to celebrate their heritage and fly Nazi flags in prominent locations in this country as well.
Put another way, similar arguments could be made if someone wished to erect a monument honoring the service of U. S. soldiers who participated in the actions at My Lai.
Is service to one’s country to be blindly venerated, no matter the cause that was served?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:02 amEither the Stars and Bars represents the flag of another nation, which was at war with the United States of America viz., the Confederate States of America, or it is the flag of insurrection against the United States of America, neither of which ought to be flow over the soil of the United States of America.
THE SOUTH LOST. GET OVER IT.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:02 amThis is what happens when civil people let bigots and Hitler like groups and fascists states exist in a democracy.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:02 amWell, perhaps it’s because you have been living on the margin of common decency and respect for civil rights. Claiming “We aren’t respected” isn’t good enough to fly this big flag that says, “We don’t much like the direction the USA has moved since the Civil War so we’re going to act like spoiled, mean spirited children.”
June 5th, 2008 at 11:03 amI’m not gonna say it, not gonna say it, not gonna…..
SALTINES!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:03 amFlaggots are so whiny.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:05 amrogers Says:
I’m not sure what the big deal is…those who wrote the constitution owned slaves, and despised and killed the indians…is that tainted as well?.
You have to look at the whole picture.
Back under the bridge evil troll. You have no powers here.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:05 amSaltines???
June 5th, 2008 at 11:07 amHey trolls, it’s not about slavery, it’s about a bunch of spoiled white boys who think they can show their thinly veiled hate under the guise of “respectin’ our heritage.”
June 5th, 2008 at 11:08 amNice try, flaggot, but I despise the act of slavery and those that would revere its symbols.
Only a flaggot would try to compare these rednecks to the founders of our country, especially in a not-so-veiled attempt at defending bigotry.
You are one silly little man with serious self-esteem issues. Maybe you should work on your own life some and you might not be so down on yourself.
Or then again, you may just be a marginalized little flaggot with nothing to contribute.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:08 amIt’s times like these that I really hate living in Florida. Sigh.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:08 amrogers Says
June 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
I’m not sure what the big deal is…those who wrote the constitution owned slaves, and despised and killed the indians…is that tainted as well?.
You have to look at the whole picture.
_______________________________________________
There’s a big difference between looking at the whole picture and distracting from the picture with shiny objects.
First, when we honor those who wrote the constitution and founded this country, we honor those accomplishments. We aren’t honoring anybody for owning slaves. We honor them for founding this country IN SPITE OF the fact that some of them owned slaves.
Much in the same way that we honor Martin Luther King, Jr. for his contributions to ensuring civil rights for all, and his dedication to change through non-violence. Not because of his alleged extra-marital affairs.
Second, our history of how we have treated native Americans is shameful, but has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:09 amrogers Says:
I’m not sure what the big deal is…those who wrote the constitution owned slaves, and despised and killed the indians…
hey, stupid, does that make it right? If your best jumps into Niagara Falls will you jump in after him?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:10 amIf only! Maybe him and ALL his flaggot friends can take a big jump. Water landing is optional.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:11 amand by the way. once awareness spread and once the realization of slavery hit them, didn’t they free their slaves? Didn’t they realize How stupid and unjustifiable it is?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:12 amRantingTommy Says:
All those that continue to defend it in the 21st century should most definitely NOT be respected.
That means you, flaggot.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:00 am
_______
Don’t forget that slavery still exists in the United States. In Florida, particularly. Just ask the people who pick tomatoes for our fast-food franchises.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:13 amyeah right, maybe a small puddle will suffice.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:13 ambabies! hi!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:13 amninique Says:
what a coincidence, now that a black man has won as the Democratic nominee, now is when these southerners feel marginalized and want to fly their rebel flag.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:26 am
______
On the 20th anniversary of RFK’s assassination, no less.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:14 amWhat liberals should realize is that it is next to impossible, if not actually impossible, to speak intelligently and rationally to superpatriots like Marion Lambert. I have an ultra conservative and religious brother who has accused me of not engaging in critical thinking. I finally realized that it is useless in attempting to carry on any kind of meaningful dialogue with him after my sister in law informed me that he receives all his news from Fox “News”. The same thing holds true for flag wavers like Marion Lambert. As Henry Fonda said in the classic film Twelve Angry Men, when speaking to a juror concerning the behavior of another juror: “He can’t hear you. He never will.”
June 5th, 2008 at 11:14 amninique, aren’t Saltines just the whitest crackers you’ve ever munched?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:16 amoh, yeah, Erroll, did you tell him about play us out? what does that mean, play us out!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:17 amThese people are planting the seeds of division in this country under unacceptable explanations,justifiactions and reasons.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:18 amPeople should refuse to accept such dividing methods.
This is just a start. I think this country should stand strong against such moves by these people..
US has one flag and there is no need for big flags like this Confederate flag flying in this country.
ConFederate flags belong to history and history books only and not to be hanged to celebrate birthday of a president of Confederacy which sympolizes division of this country.
ohhh, yeah. I personally like saltines with a bit of color and some cracked pepper
June 5th, 2008 at 11:20 amYeah, it’s about catering to the herd of uneducated freaks during this historic time. What a coincidence, huh flaggots ™?
They just don’t know when to stop shoving their views onto the rest of us.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:20 ameverything is better with a little flava
June 5th, 2008 at 11:21 amno, the answer is no… you cannot ever respect the act of slavery.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:23 amYEAH!!! WE’RE BIGOTS - AND WE’RE DAMNED PROUD OF IT!!!!
Jebus. That’s embarrassing.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:24 amFlag the flaggot. He’s trying to derail the thread.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:25 amno matter how respected someone maybe in other areas, whether or not they went down in history and helped to write the Declaration of independence, if they supported slavery they should feel wrong for it.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:26 amYeah, off-hand, I’d say that owning slaves and despising and killing Indians is tainted.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:26 amninique,
Saltines = Cracker
RUC was just being discreet.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:27 amThe South marginalized?
This certainly would not seem to be the case with regard to Presidential elections.
No one has won the presidency since 1900 (McKinley-R) without carrying at least one of the thirteen Confederate and border states (the two border states were Missouri and Kentucky). And since 1924 (84 years ago), no Republican has won the presidency without carrying at least five of those states (Eisenhower-R, 1952) and no Democrat has won the presidency with less than six (Clinton-D, 1992 and 1996).
It is likely no coincidence that for the past thirty-two years we have had a either a President or Vice-President who claims to be based in a former Confederate State.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:28 amtainted? tainted is too small a word!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:28 amI got it, I got it… it just made me hungry so I had to get some. Luckily for me my gorgeous husband but the variety pack, yum!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:29 amhaha I meant bought
June 5th, 2008 at 11:29 amRUCerious, sorry about that…you’ve never been discreet!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:29 amyou don’t to take bars and stars out of it. you need to let it RIP in a museum somewhere in good ole’ Atlanta, Georgia.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:32 amI don’t want to dis Tampa because not all of its citizens are brain dead.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:33 amjohnboy Says:
What a wonderful little progressive comment! And you still so
no hypocrisy in the message y’all preach.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:30 am
_______
What’s the matter, Jay? Don’t like people dissing your town?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:34 amexactly, stupid. they may indeed be respectable but if they don’t own up to what their are accountable for, especially something as horrible as human slavery, then what does that make them?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:36 amthey can’t claim their shit don’t stink if it does.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:37 amrogers Says:
You must all take the same spinning classes…I said those who do it, not the act itself.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:33 am
________
Yes, I can respect the people who drafted the Constitution and Declaration of Independence for their ideals while still being critical of them for owning slaves and for the genocide of the native population. I can also respect Adolf Hitler as a skilled politician and orator while denouncing and despising what he did with those skills. You see, we progressives are able to hold nuanced and complex views of people and issues, as opposed to you conservatives who see everything as black and white.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:39 ambesides, respect is something you earn. you may appear respected but that doesn’t mean you truly are.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:40 amWhat a wonderful little progressive comment! And you still so
no hypocrisy in the message y’all preach.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:30 am
It’s progressive to point out regression, you racist interloping trollshit.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:40 amHmmmm, a black man is in the running for POTUS, and now the lunk heads decide to fly their Chinese-made flag?
Inbreeding….**eyes rolling**
June 5th, 2008 at 11:41 amuhh… sorry, i can’t respect that far
June 5th, 2008 at 11:41 amlike I said, I think respect is something you earn along with love. HT, what I think you mean is that you recognize their skill, right?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:42 amI can recognize that Hitler was able to lead people to do some stupid shit
June 5th, 2008 at 11:43 amthat doesn’t mean I respect him anymore than I respect cockroaches
June 5th, 2008 at 11:43 amZooey Says:
Hmmmm, a black man is in the running for POTUS, and now the lunk heads decide to fly their Chinese-made flag?
Inbreeding….**eyes rolling**
lol, yey! you said a funny! :)
June 5th, 2008 at 11:44 amCan we please put the word “treasonous” before “Confederate flag” whenever it shows up in print? This is the flag of treason, plain and simple.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:45 amhey, roger rabbid, I answered your stupid question
June 5th, 2008 at 11:48 amWe’ll see tons of covert and overt racism come to the front now that a BLACK MAN is running for President.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:48 amWe’ll deal with it by calling it out for what it is and trusting that America has moved forward in her history to a point where that isn’t the decisive factor.
McIIIrd will be a SCOTUS disaster, an IMPERIAL disaster and continue with the ruination of our country.
rogers Says:
Ok, so you admit hitler’s no worse than washington or the founding fathers, they all did the same evil things for the benifit of they’re nations, for which they should be respected..ok then.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Oh look, a lunkhead. Do you live in your Sister-Mama’s basement, or Uncle Daddy’s backyard shed?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:49 amMr. Rogers is really missing that cardigan sweater today. Where can I get one of those nifty conflation pumps you use so often?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:49 amninique Says:
lol, yey! you said a funny! :)
June 5th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Hey ninique, good to see you here and on TheZoo. :)
June 5th, 2008 at 11:50 amwhat’s a conflation pump?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:51 amthanks, Zooey! hahaha sister-mama lol
June 5th, 2008 at 11:52 amninique, when Roger takes something we say, and tries to make it into something else, that’s called conflation. He just does it so often, I figured he must have a pump>??
June 5th, 2008 at 11:53 amThese people are mentally disturbed - just treat them as such and let’s move on
June 5th, 2008 at 11:53 amroger, are you actually defending Hitler?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:54 amninique Says:
exactly, stupid. they may indeed be respectable but if they don’t own up to what their are accountable for, especially something as horrible as human slavery, then what does that make them?
it appears I have to repeat myself to the ignoraous
June 5th, 2008 at 11:56 amninique Says:
like I said, I think respect is something you earn along with love. HT, what I think you mean is that you recognize their skill, right?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:42 am
No, I do mean respect. The word comes from the Latin “respectus” which means “regard,” or “consider.” It does not necessarily mean “honor” or “admire.” You can respect a person you also despise - even if it’s merely a recognition of their power to manipulate and deceive.
rogers Says:
Ok, so you admit hitler’s no worse than washington or the founding fathers, they all did the same evil things for the benifit of they’re nations, for which they should be respected..ok then.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
________
No, I don’t admit that. That’s not what I said. But you’re going to spin it that way anyway, so have fun blogging about it on HT Watch.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:56 amobviously, it no longer makes them respectable… stupid!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:57 am# 110. AWESOME! Am laughing my behind off!! Good one :-)
June 5th, 2008 at 11:58 amI am so glad I didn’t partake in debating the evils of leaders with good ol’ rogers here this time. My hats off to those who played whack a roger.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:59 amyeah, but in ordinary everyday English, not Latin,- to say you respect them… I dunno, I prefer to use recognize when considering a slithy tove like Hitler, or Roger here.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:00 pmrogers Says:
no matter how respected someone maybe in other areas, whether or not they went down in history and helped to write the Declaration of independence, if they supported slavery they should feel wrong for it.
I hereby nominate rogers as our representative to the Founding Fathers and assign him the task of digging a six foot hole, burying himself in it, and taking the message to the Founding Fathers that we all disrespect their position on slavery.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:01 pmFor example, when using it to call something a respectable act, I wouldn’t consider slavery, would you?
June 5th, 2008 at 12:01 pmor a respectable human being for that matter, would never be trajan, am I right?
June 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pmoh, and rogers, if you’d like you can take a Confederate Flag with you to keep you warm.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pmAnyone here commit slavery? I can only speak for myself so I wanted to be sure.
By the way, my answer is no I haven’t committed slavery.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:04 pmhussein toasterhead Says
June 5th, 2008 at 11:14 am
On the 20th anniversary of RFK’s assassination, no less.
___________________________________________
It’s the 40th anniversary, but who’s counting?
June 5th, 2008 at 12:04 pmPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
oh, and rogers, if you’d like you can take a Confederate Flag with you to keep you warm.
good one!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:05 pmYou left logic out of your presumed *burn* of toasterhead, rogers.
Yeah, like progressives are going to equate hitler to our founding fathers.
What a piece of trash you are.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:05 pmrogers Says:
hussein toasterhead Says:
“I can also respect Adolf Hitler as a skilled politician and orator while denouncing and despising what he did with those skills.”
Ok, so you admit hitler’s no worse than washington or the founding fathers, they all did the same evil things for the benifit of they’re nations, for which they should be respected..ok then.
Rogers, look up the word “sophistry”, then look in the fookin mirror.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:06 pmI would like to enslave someone, but that is TMI, hehe
June 5th, 2008 at 12:07 pmYou’re in for a big ass-kicking in November rogers. You reich wingers attempt to scare us off. We dare you.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:08 pmconflation, conflation! thanks RU… rogers, you are a stupid piece of sheiss conflationator!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pmlove the word!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pmWhy in the wide wide world of sports can’t people understand that objection to this flag isn’t just about racism and/or slavery? This flag represents the biggest act of sedition ever perpetrated upon the United States. It should not be displayed in the commons. Period.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:13 pmyou learn something new everyday!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:13 pmninique Says:
or a respectable human being for that matter, would never be trajan, am I right?
June 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
_______
No, because he’s just a bigoted idiot.
The point that rogers is missing is that it is not the act of owning slaves that makes, say, Thomas Jefferson a respectable figure in history. Nearly all figures in history have some character flaws, even minor ones. This is called “being human.”
The fact that Jefferson owned slaves does not detract from the brilliance of the Declaration of Independence. Nor does Albert Einstein’s cheating on his wife detract from the Theory of Relativity, nor do Shakespeare’s illegitimate children detract from Macbeth.
We also have to look at historical figures in context. Like it or not, in 1776 human bondage was legal and sanctioned behavior in most of the world, as was the wholesale colonization and exploitation of other countries, as was the mass genocide of indigenous peoples. This doesn’t make these genocides or the institution of slavery any less terrible, but it at least should provide a frame of reference from which to view the people of that age.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:13 pmrogers, stop get bratty because you live in Tampa and you worship Hitler!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pmyou’re trying to reason with an imbecile, HT!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:16 pmjohnboy Says:
What makes you think, if you are indeed black, that coming onto this board to spew right-wing drivel is going to improve the state of black America? What convinces you that neocons are out to do anything good for you?
The name calling you rail against is actually a nice response to your daily drivel. You spew hateful trash here, and what, you expect us to ask for your address so 1-800-Flowers will know where to make the delivery?
Look at the state of our country and insulting the people who are only trying to improve on it. Crazy conservatism helps nothing.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:16 pmand ok, I see your point, HT, I still find it difficult to respect them. I caqn recognize, but respect, hmmm…
June 5th, 2008 at 12:17 pmCorrection — *stop insulting
June 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pmrogers Says:
hussein toasterhead Says:
The point that rogers is missing is that it is not the act of owning slaves that makes, say, Thomas Jefferson a respectable figure in history. Nearly all figures in history have some character flaws, even minor ones. This is called “being human.”
hhmm, and why does this not apply to hitler??.I won’t hold my breath….
you ass! because it was genocide, not cheating on a wife!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pmThe massive Confederate flag […] costs $800 and was made in China.
Apparently the massive flag, comes with a massive dose of irony.
These bigots hate them foreigners, but they hate having to pay actual money for an American-made item even more. And I bet they all drive them Toyota pickup trucks.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:23 pmdid he tear a baby from its mother’s arms and bash his head against a telephone pole, that was done in Dresden by a Nazi soldier, you stupid shit
June 5th, 2008 at 12:24 pmI never thought I’d see the day when a troll would be outright defending Hitler and comparing him favorably to our Founding Fathers.
Not that I didn’t suspect they thought that way; I just didn’t think they’d get so stupid that they’d say so in public.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pmdid Washington Gas toddlers in Auschwits?
June 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pmrogers, you suck!
June 5th, 2008 at 12:27 pmMcWars, I’m pretty sure you’re aware of this, but just to set the record straight; troll johnboy is just another garden-variety none-too-bright loser who thinks if he comes on here and pretends to be black, he’ll get some sort of pass.
Try again with a different sign-in name next time, johnboy.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:29 pmrogers Says:
hhmm, and why does this not apply to hitler??.I won’t hold my breath….
June 5th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
______
Okay, if you want to get completely divorced from reality and any sort of moral compass, you can make the case that George Washington, as leader of the fledgeling United States and creator of the world’s first modern democracy, was singularly responsible for the mass genocide and marginalization of Native Americans that followed in the next 200+ years, and in this way he’s no different from Hitler, who as leader of Germany instituted and oversaw a deliberate campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide as he transitioned his country from democracy to totalitarian regime.
A reasonable person, which you clearly are not, would have a bit of difficulty with this extremely twisted comparison.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:31 pmok, so, you really think Washington was equally as bad as Hitler!
now that that’s established, F@#k off.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:31 pmThings are going poorly for the RNC. Much like rogers’ beloved Hitler in the waning days of WWII they are having to turn to untrained High School students in an effort to combat the rising tide of opposition.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:36 pmAnd while I can respect the courage it takes for rogers to come here and confront our Tanks of Truth with no ammunition and less training, I wish he would give it up and go back to High School so that he may one day use that tremendous courage for the benefit of real Americans and not be slaughtered just to appease the RNC…
rogers Says: Hitler did alot for germany, especially after its defeat in ww1, so can we condone his imprisonment of jews for what he did for his nation?. June 5th, 2008 at 11:29 am
‘imprisonment of jews,’ eh? in some countries that would be called ‘holocaust minimisation.’
June 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pmStop feeding the trolls, folks. They’re getting fat and happy off of all the undeserved attention they’re getting.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:42 pmjohnboy Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
You have bought into the left’s propaganda hook, line, sinker, pole, boat, and the fisherman. You will one day see the error in your ways. It’s not your fault you’ve convinced yourself that the party you’ve so passionately fallen in love with has the correct answer. Put down the pot for a week or so and find yourself. Good Luck!!!
So, once I find the error of my ways I’ll start linking to harrassing pictures mocking Obama?
Hey, you’re right, I have bought into progresssivism hook- line-sinker-pole-boat-fisherman, because THAT’S WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT.
Stop smoking Hitler’s ashes and stop posting here.
And ralph is right, I don’t believe for a minute that you’re black. White trash.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:44 pmWell said, belac. Few sights are as sad as a would-be warrior, thrown into battle before he’s ready and cut down before he’s even sprouted the first hair on his dingus.
you will be remembered, rogers.
we will remember you, and chuckle.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:44 pmRogers believes all the founding fathers approved of slavery. Even back then many of them wanted it ended but the southerners wouldn’t have gone along with the battle for independence if slavery was denied them. Even Thomas Jefferson didn’t like slavery and though he owned them treated them very fairly. Perhaps we should have let the southerners stay under the control of England and then they could fly whatever they wanted and it would be none of our business. And since these southern states received more tax dollars than they contribute it would be good for everybody. And they could have kept paying their taxes to the King for another two hundred years without representation. Idiots.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:45 pmFolks…The thing about our trolls is pretty easy to figure. Their entire being; their entire way of looking at themselves has been created within the last few years. They have attached their blood, sweat, and tears to the Bush adminsistration. They used their support of the administration to impress other Low Information Voters (LIV), they probably got laid once or twice by being the adminsistration ‘know it all’ at some of the seedy bars they frequent. Hell, they may have even felt good about themselves for the first time in their lives.
They have to cling to the last threads of the criminal enterprise they have been cheerleading. They cannot let go; as they have nothing else to hang onto. They will forwever believe that they alone understand the greatness of the current president.
So rogers thinks Hitler is ok? Of course he does. Bush is very much like Hitler, so whats the confusion? rogers lies and pushes the truth around. So what; his ‘dear leader’ has been doing that since birth. They are joined at the hip and no amount of logic, facts, or truth will break through to their single digit IQ’s. They deserve each other. The thing is, America deserve much better than them.
Trolls suck. Thats all they do.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:49 pmRogers are you by any chance left-handed?
June 5th, 2008 at 12:52 pmNo, he didn’t. And Washington eventually freed all his slaves.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:01 pmObviously rogers thinks Hitler was a good guy. That’s why the fact that Bush’s grandfather was a Nazi collaborator doesn’t bother him at all. In fact, they look at it as one more jewel in their crown of fascism.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:06 pmI haven’t seen rogers deny that he thinks Hitler was a good guy — so using his own logic, he supports Hitler. It’s true!
June 5th, 2008 at 1:08 pmYou pathetic emotional thinking liberals, HELLO!!!! Has anyone ever heard of the first amendment? He has every right to fly his flag whether you like or not. I might not like what he has to say but I will die for his right to say it. Oh yes, you are liberals the Constitution does not mean any thing to you. I’m willing you do not like the second amendment as well.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pmIt’s funny, watching rogerroger desperately try to weave a ‘gotcha’ in defense of a group of racist cowards who can’t own up to their position but instead fly a chinese made flag (!) belonging to a country that lasted all of four years, that arose over a dispute on whether the federal government could, among other things, tell the states to stop holding slaves.
rogerroger desparately trying to get that gotcha. Good job, everyone, in denying it that opportunity.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pmWe know you’re a devout 25 percenter roger but even somebody that dense should be able to figure this one out himself.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pm.
… Because nothing says America like the world’s largest Confederate flag… NO?
.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:17 pmrogers Says:
Why don’t you tell us why you don’t…
June 5th, 2008 at 1:17 pmThey have a right to fly it, probably, and we have a right to call them idiots and boycott Florida. But it seems you people think only your side has these rights and we should just be quiet about things we don’t like, right?
June 5th, 2008 at 1:18 pm#177 TVrebel,
June 5th, 2008 at 1:19 pmThe First Amendment is currently being rezoned…
Yep Jeremy, rogers is trying to use his vast knowledge of history to show us his gotcha. The only problem is he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know since he’s never actually read a history book. If he had, maybe he’d see the likeness between Hitler and W as opposed to Hitler and Washington.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:21 pmrogers Says:
——————————————————————————–
Zooey Says:
Why don’t you tell me why you hate hitler….
June 5th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Stil not denying you think Hitler was a bad guy, huh?
June 5th, 2008 at 1:22 pmI wonder if the troll who plays a rebel on TV can make a case for anyone here calling for a denial of the right to fly a massive emblem of racist heritage and ignorance in public.
I doubt if such a case can be made.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:24 pmrogers,
Educate yourself.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pmShne wrote:
They have a right to fly it, probably, and we have a right to call them idiots and boycott Florida. But it seems you people think only your side has these rights and we should just be quiet about things we don’t like, right?
The second amendment aplies to you as well, but do not strip the rights of a man to do and say what he thinks just because you disagree with him. Boycott Florida, you have the right. I will able to get on more rides at Disneyworld.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:30 pmSecond who are “you people” you do not know me, for all you know I may be a 30 year old American Indian or a 50 year old African American or maybe a 65 year old caucasian. Don’t call me “you people” you ignorant humanbeing.
If your self esteem is low. If your self worth has vaporized. If you only have GOP talking points to work with. If the entire planet has turned against your chosen imperial idiot. If the number of people who agree with you can be placed on one hand, then you might only have pre-wired bigotry and racism as your outlet. Think about it: 77% of Americans think Bush is a loser and a failed president - 77%! The trolls who still cling to this president, must be devastated. Instead of reviewing their own reasons for this loyalty, they merely take the rovian game plan and personalize it to their built in bias. I beleive Rx2 does appreciate Hitler. I do believe Rx2 does think history will prove Bush correct. As the truth continues to emerge about the Bush legacy, they will get meaner, and more angry. They will react like the caged, cornered animals that they are.
Trolls suck; that’s all they do.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:35 pmrogers:
So you won’t go back to High School, I get it. Have you considered a trade? I myself considered becoming a Porsche mechanic and I still sometimes regret not following through…
I think your need for rigid paramaters and linear thinking as well as your failure to understand nuance and basic arguments would be a crippling handicap in politics or academia, but all would serve you admirably in the world of performance auto mechanics.
Or you could see if Glen Beck is hiring… I just hate to see you struggle so.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:41 pmI’m beginning to think rogers is michael.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:41 pmrogers Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
This is all about you, rogers. Deal with yourself.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pmTrollfighting is a lot like pissing in a dark blue suit…
…it gives you a warm feeling at first & nobody notices, but eventually you realize all you’ve done is piss on yourself.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pmTVrebel Says: blah, blah, blah
You think watching Fox News is living on the edge when it is in fact living in the abyss. And I know exactly what you are dittohead.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:43 pmrogers Says:
The holocause was about imprisoning and enslaving ppl…so would that make anyone bad?.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
You have to ask? Wow.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:45 pmOh that’s what the holocause was. Because during the holocaust they also murdered 6 million people by sending them to gas chambers.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:45 pmRogers, have you actually EVER read a book or do you just keep repeating talking point. It’s interesting that your opinion of the holocaust coincides with that of the president of Iran.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:47 pmrogers Says:
I ask again…is imprisoning and enslaving people what makes hitler a bad person?.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
What do you think?
June 5th, 2008 at 1:50 pmZoo, you think that the reason rogers thinks Hitler was a swell guy is because he doesn’t know whta Hitler was all about.
Consider the very real possibility that he likes Hitler because he does know.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:55 pmI lot of people don’t like brussel sprouts but I still don’t see how that is related to the idea that a lot of people don’t like turnips
June 5th, 2008 at 1:57 pmPrytania,
Congressional approval numbers always suck — that’s a weak argument. People tend to love their own Congress people, but hate Congress as a whole.
Nice try.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:57 pmPrytania is that an attention getting device?
June 5th, 2008 at 1:58 pmIt’s funny how none of the conservatives who now claim that Bush is “not conservative” didn’t start to think so until the war turned ugly and the economy went in the crapper.
Until that point, anyone on the Left who pointed out the massive deficits that followed Bush’s wartime tax cuts, or the expansion of government powers that Cheney engineered were just victims of “Bush Derangement Syndrome”.
When Bush had an approval rating of 91%, he was the conservative poster-boy. Once he dipped into the 30s, he was all of a sudden “not conservative”.
Just like Nixon was “not conservative”. Yeah, right.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:00 pmrogers: go Cheney yourself.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:02 pmrogers:
here…
http://www.uti.edu/
I implore you, check it out. They even have a NASCAR institute! Do something valuable with your life, the RNC doesn’t love you…
June 5th, 2008 at 2:03 pmPrytania Says:
——————————————————————————–
Wrong again Zooey. They don’t always suck. You should know that.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
My bad, they don’t always suck — mine blows.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:08 pmPrytania Says:
——————————————————————————–
The holocaust never happend……..
June 5th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Really? Pleas