Pipes: Bush Will Attack Iran If A Democrat Wins The White House
Pipes: Bush Will Attack Iran If A Democrat Wins The White House
Daniel Pipes, a far right-wing pseudo scholar who called the NIE report on the halting of Iran’s nuclear program a “shoddy, politicized, outrageous parody of a piece of propaganda,” said he believes that President Bush will attack Iran if a Democrat wins the White House in November. During an interview posted at the National Review Online, Pipes said that the U.S. and its allies should tell Tehran to “watch out” for “an American attack”:
What I suspect will be the case is, should the Democratic nominee win in November, President Bush will do something. And should it be Mr. McCain that wins, he’ll punt, and let McCain decide what to do.
Pipes also said that countries like Russia and China should aid the U.S. in pressuring Iran, if they want to prevent America attacking unilaterally:
Look, if you don’t want an American attack, then you have to join us in being very serious with the Iranians and making clear to them we will attack if they don’t stop.
Pipes, who has a history of what The Nation calls “signature distortions,” is just the latest in a rising chorus of voices advocating that Bush attack Iran before his term ends. The Israeli newspaper Yediot Achronot reported that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert planned to encourage Bush to prepare an attack against Iran during his meeting with the President yesterday.
The White House denies any intent to strike Iran, but that hasn’t stopped Vice President Dick Cheney or former U.N. ambassador John Bolton from promoting the idea.
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Now THAT is one scary f’ing NeoCon!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:05 pmMethinks that Pipes’ real adversary is the Constitution, and Iran just happens to be one step down that road.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:07 pmWell, we all knew already that Bush starts wars for political reasons (as opposed to reasons related to, y’know, national security) but I was used to wingnuts denying that fact.
Maybe this is a Repub strategy in the wake of the poll that said only 7% support military action. They’re gonna say “you better vote for McCain or Bush will start another war! We can’t control him! We don’t know what he’s gonna do! He’s craaaaazy!!!”
June 5th, 2008 at 3:08 pmWell it’s good to know that Bush’s policy and military decisions are not based on partisan agendas to affect domestic politics…oh wait…
June 5th, 2008 at 3:09 pmSuch an attack would, of course, be an act of war. Sans a declaration of war from Congress, any order the CINC gives to the military would be considered an illegal order.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:10 pmLet us hope the leaders in Congress would have back channel communications with the officer staff involved in executing such illegal orders, and warn them that carrying out such illegal orders would result in their careers being over, and them being tried for war crimes.
Pipes looks old enough to go fight in the war he advocates. I wonder why he is safe and sound at home instead of leading the charge to victory?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:13 pmTime to talk about what WE the People can do.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:14 pmJebus.
Pipes says, “Vote for a Democrat, and you’ll all die! …We’ll make damned sure of it.”
June 5th, 2008 at 3:14 pmI wonder why he isn’t being arrested for conspiracy to cause public unrest?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:14 pmforgot, we have no DOJ any longer. They are run by a traitor, directed by a traitor.
I have one question for this nitwit: Why would the entire intelligence community which is dominated at least in the political offices by bushites issue propaganda against the cabal? Sort of pops your balloon, doesn’t it?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:14 pmI believe bushco wants desperately to saddle Obama with an Iran conflict, he should be told that he’ll be impeached within the hour of opening one.
Now they’re going to wait until after the election to attack Iran? I thought it was going to happen prior to, to give McCain’s campaign a boost.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:17 pmBush is going to prove to the planet he has the will to do what he wants; screw the people. His juvenile way of looking at the world was built upon decades of failure and bailouts. The words consequence and ramifications mean nothing to him; as they apply to patriotic Americans, not the Bush administration. He has the scary, cornered animal look all the time now. He understands the walls are closing in on him. He leaves his pride in the toilet bowl every morning.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:19 pmThis approach would be the ultimate lame dick action; starting a war and leaving it to the Dems to clean up.
Kinda like the Senior Frat Boyz crapping in the living room of the Frat House as they leave after graduation, so the Underclassmen have to scoop it up and disinfect the whole place.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:20 pmDo all of these neocons have the intellectual capacity of a 12 year old? Pipes sounds like a spoiled whiny child.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:21 pmAEI & the Heritage Foundation hire creeps like this daily.
And yes, upside99, THAT is one scary f’ing NeoCon!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:21 pmthe firing squad is too good for these war criminals.
However,I’m ALL for the guillotine
June 5th, 2008 at 3:21 pmWhat, personally attack?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pmThese neocons, out of greed and fear of fair taxation, would support another murderous act and call it war. Would the people rally around McCain in order to feel safe? What a joke.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:23 pmMost serious question: Would our military obey orders over an obvious bogus claim and bomb Iran?
Now I remember where I’ve heard of this jackass before…
June 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pmfrom Wiki, he founded:
Campus Watch is an organisation which “reviews and critiques Middle East studies in North America with an aim to improving them.”[1] It is a project of the Middle East Forum, an American, neoconservative[2][3][4][5][6][7], pro-Israel think tank. …
Campus Watch originally encouraged students to submit reports regarding teachers, books, and curricula, which led some professors to accuse Campus Watch of “McCarthyesque” intimidation.[9][10] In protest, more than 100 other academics asked to be listed.[9] Joel Beinin, a long-time opponent of Pipes, said:[11] “Campus Watch [..] compiles dossiers on professors and universities that do not meet its standard of uncritical support for the policies of George Bush and Ariel Sharon.”
…
Pipes also said that countries like Russia and China should aid the U.S. in pressuring Iran, if they want to prevent America attacking unilaterally:
Look, if you don’t want an American attack, then you have to join us in being very serious with the Iranians and making clear to them we will attack if they don’t stop.
Sure. It’s more likely that Russia and China will make it very clear that they will re-aim their nuclear missiles back at the U.S. IF the U.S. even makes a single move toward attacking Iran.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pmAmericans will no longer be held hostage by the Neo-Cons’ fearmongering. We will not accept being beaten down, and then meekly ask for more.
Go blow it out your ass, Pipes.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:25 pmMr. Rogers, your sweater is in the gutter gettin dirty.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pmThe Kyl-Lieberman amendment is NOT an authorization for attacking Iran. Is it?
Pelosi, If you would have kept impeachment on the table as the law calls for. And, I heard, in the SF primary, she won by 80% for re election in 08.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pmRx2 tries but fails in the grand tradition of his ‘dear leader’.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pmLook, if you don’t want an American attack, then you have to join us in being very serious with the Iranians and making clear to them we will attack if they don’t stop.
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If “they don’t stop”? Stop what? Stop developing nuclear weapons? The same nuclear weapons that the NIE report said the Iranians aren’t developing? Oh yes — that report is a “shoddy, politicized, outrageous parody of a piece of propaganda.”
So tell me this — since we don’t believe any intelligence that says they aren’t developing nuclear weapons, how will we know when they “stop” doing it?
This guy is a nutcase with a lit fuse.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pmThis is Superb! The departing Clinton administration left the incoming administration plans to Capture or Kill Bin Laden. The incoming administration trashed those plans ’cause they came from the Clinton Administration. By way of payback, the departing administration will leave an incoming Obama Administration a nice, neat war on its hands. Now that’s Christian Charity at its finest! And that will show you unappreciative 93%ers just what a petulant, spoiled frat boy can Really accomplish!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pmImpeach Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution, Along With Countless Thousands of Lives!
This theory smells like something Bush would roll in. It is exactly the sort of petulant bully shit that that loser would do, bomb Iran on his way out the door. And I have the same question as had enough, would our military obey orders from the CIC? I am afraid so.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pmSTOP THE PRESSES! MYSTERY SOLVED!
This may be the series of ‘Pipes’ making up the Internets, according to Teddy Stevens.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:32 pmnanlichi Says
June 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
It is exactly the sort of petulant bully shit that that loser would do, bomb Iran on his way out the door.
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Remember when the retreating Iraqis set the Kuwaiti oil fields on fire? If this crazy person is correct, Bush would be doing the same thing. Which would do amazing things for his legacy, wouldn’t it?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:33 pmWhat’s with these neocon stooges? Their doctrine for the use of force is that we use force whenever we see an injustice we want to correct.
Like Mother Teresa with first strike capabilities.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:34 pmLunatics can be fun to watch. Lunatics with guns, not so much.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pmI have been saying this for quite a while now, that this sick, demented, war criminal occupying the white house would do this.
The second part of the problem is the Chimp King leaving the WH once he starts this THIRD WAR, all his little dominos are lining up just right for his final destructive strike on the US. Get the detention centers, blackwater mercs, ready for those who protest his right to be king forever in his illegal forever wars.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pmSo basically what this loony-toons buffoon is saying is: the danger to American security is of such enormity that the bombs must fly only if Obama wins in November, but it can wait until sometime in 2009 if McCain wins (at McCain’s discretion).
WTF? If the Bushistas are truly of the same mindset, I say it’s time to start seriously considering pre-emptive impeachment. No more idle threats. No more letter writing. No more hearings. Somebody, for the sake of this country’s future needs to step up the plate and introduce articles of impeachment of both Bush and Cheney. And let the chips fall where they may.
Just saying . . .
June 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pmwhat’s the definition of a “far right-wing pseudo-scholar’?
My definition is a guy who didn’t have many friends as a teenager and subsequently created his own fantasy world of global geo-politics to live in.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:38 pme.g. see Kagan, Kristol et al.
Robert F. Kennedy assassinated 40 years ago today.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pmBuckie Boy Says:
I have been saying this for quite a while now, that this sick, demented, war criminal occupying the white house would do this.
Hmmmm could that be the motive behind Shrub’s ginourmous land purchase in Paraguay…his escape route.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pmCaption:
June 5th, 2008 at 3:42 pm‘We Must Rule The World or YOU’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!’
Via TPM:
Phase II: Bush Knew Pre-War Statements False
Finally, the Senate Intel Committee has gotten its act together — concluding, of course, that officials’ public statements weren’t backed up by intelligence.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/244/story/39963.html
Liars. Warmongers. Criminals.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:43 pm“…..Pipes, 54, had labored in comparative obscurity during the 1990s, writing a series of books and articles that advanced a hard line on Arab countries from Syria to Saudi Arabia to Iran, and darkly warning that Muslim-Americans posed a threat to the United States.”
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040510/press
Neocon Man The Nation, April 22, 2004
Enuff said
June 5th, 2008 at 3:44 pmI strongly suspect Iran was working on nuclear warheads to counter Saddam’s Iraq. Saddam had invaded Iran before. I base this on common sense and the date of 2003 of when Iran apparently stopped warhead work. That’s the year the US took down Saddam’s government.
I don’t think any of us believe Iran was really planning on selling electricity to it’s Middle Eastern neighbors; Iraq was an enemy and Tajikistan and Afghanistan had no money, for example.
Iran supports Hizbullah and Hamas and others with weapons. We must guess what these suicide bombers would do with a nuke. It’s too dangerous to let them get a real nuke to find out. Strong sanctions might solve the problem. But they aren’t happening. We may be headed to war with Iran, sooner or later. Even under President Obama.
The Mullahs are not liberals. Their philosophy is a kind of death-loving fascism, far to the right of George W Bush. War must be avoided. This means the Mullahs mustn’t have nuclear weapons. We must figure out a way.
If we can’t figure out a way, if Obama’s golden voice doesn’t persuade Iran, Obama will have leeway to launch an attack on Iran. Since he won’t have the Democratic party on his Left to criticize him, and the Republicans will also be forced to support the move.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pmI note that Mr. Rogers conflation pump is hard at work, wheezing life into myths like labeling the Kuds a terrorist organization = bomb Iran.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:48 pmBush went to war because “he thought” Saddam had wmd’s. Well the whole Middle East knows what we are capable of, do you blame these countries for arming up ?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:48 pmStrong sanctions might solve the problem. But they aren’t happening.
Without Russia and China on board, no sanctions are going to work. With them on board, no military action of any sort would be needed.
Hmmmm.. suppose we ought to talk to the Russians and Chinese about how to do this? Or is that more Nazi appeasement?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:50 pmThe Mullahs are not liberals. Their philosophy is a kind of death-loving fascism, far to the right of George W Bush. War must be avoided. This means the Mullahs mustn’t have nuclear weapons. We must figure out a way.
Care to offer citations of any sort to back up this assertion?
June 5th, 2008 at 3:51 pmWhether or not this wingnut knows what he’s talking about, invading Iran will only happen if Congress allows it. The question isn’t who the next president will be but whether or not Congress grows a spine.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 5th, 2008 at 3:51 pmAmerica has a cancer and it is called “George W. Bush”. Too bad McCain’s gotten “infected”, now it’s eating at his soul. If Bush attacks Iran, all bets are off: impeach the guy and try him for high crimes!
June 5th, 2008 at 3:52 pmThe only way to stop these people is to start setting up a war crimes tribunal.
It can be an informal effort until January 2009.
Give these criminals something to think about.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:53 pmIf Bush dies between now and January, “President” Cheney will definitely attack Iran.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:54 pmIf Bush dies between now and January, “President” Cheney will definitely attack Iran.
Off Topic: I still believe that Cheney is the best protection that Bush could find… no one is ever gonna assisinate Bush as long as Dick is next in line.
On Topic: The wheels are already in motion… they’ve deployed the USS Abraham Lincoln to the Gulf and the new shiny Growlers (an electronics warfare/ground attack version of the F/A-18) were just delivered to NAS Whidbey- ready to be cleared for action and operated off of the, you guessed it, USS Abraham Lincoln.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pmLet’s give this weirdo a parachute and drop HIM on Tehran..
You’ve heard of Rambo….here’s Dildo!
And he can take Kagan, Billy Kristol, Lieberman and Rick Y with him.
Rick Y, good job at giving PART of the story…..you left out the part about the MASSIVE percentage of the Iranian population that is under 25 who are not really into mullahs..they seem to be more into cell phones, internet, finding a girl and making money, maybe starting a family…kinda like normal people.
You also forgot to mention the massive crowds that filled the street of Tehran for a candlelight vigil after 9/11.
Most Iranians are like most Americans they are interested in the economic issues. They just want decent jobs so they can live their lives and are not interested in following crazy, fanatical or corrupt leaders.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:00 pmMr. Rogers, doesn’t Kyl Lieberman also state that the POTUS must go through the Congress?
June 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pmAt this point in time I’m betting that if Bush tries to tell the military to attack Iran without congressional approval, they will simply refuse to follow orders. Any military commander who was stupid enough to attach Iran on Bush’s demand, would be kissing his career goodby.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pmThe best guarantee Congress has to stop this madman is to place both Bush and Chaney under Articles of Impeachment.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:06 pmThe size of Quds Force is unknown, with some experts believing that Quds Force numbers no more than 2,000 people, with 800 core operatives, and others saying that it could number anywhere from 3,000 to 50,000.
from wiki. Not the ‘Iranian Military’…
June 5th, 2008 at 4:06 pmLet’s hope this is true!!
June 5th, 2008 at 4:07 pmfavorino: The Iranian masses are very nice. I’ve met some.
But they don’t make the decisions.
RUCerious: The US must, of course, engage the Russians and Chinese. We already are. No dice. So sanctions are an unlikely way.
A society that wants to hang gays might not really be as liberal
as George Bush. And a country where vigilantes can legally bury people alive and burn them to death might not be our cup of liberal tea.
Surely you’ve seen the crowds chanting “Death to America”. They mean you too, unless you convert to Islam.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pmGiven this sort of ‘Either-OR’, how can it possibly be necessary on a self-defense basis? If there were consequences for being so wrong and misleading on Iraq, would this sort of lunacy be projected outside the asylum?
June 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pmRUCerious: The US must, of course, engage the Russians and Chinese. We already are. No dice. So sanctions are an unlikely way.
Why not? We can find our common interest with them, can’t we?
June 5th, 2008 at 4:24 pmRick Y Says:
Iran supports Hizbullah and Hamas and others with weapons. We must guess what these suicide bombers would do with a nuke. It’s too dangerous to let them get a real nuke to find out. Strong sanctions might solve the problem. But they aren’t happening. We may be headed to war with Iran, sooner or later. Even under President Obama.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
First of all, Iran is pursuing nuclear POWER, not nuclear WEAPONS. There is no evidence whatsoever of a current nuclear WEAPONS program in Iran.
Second of all, Hamas and Hezbollah have no strategic region to use a nuclear weapon in a suicide attack on Israel. Their goal is to reoccupy land that was taken from the Palestinians starting in 1948. Making a good portion of that land uninhabitable due to radioactive fallout would really not help them reoccupy it.
Third of all, sanctions don’t work - they only cause populations to suffer. Diplomacy and dialogue is the only way to deal with Iran. War is not an inevitability by any stretch of the imagination.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pmOops, I mean stoned to death, not burned. Just as dead, though.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pmRick Y Says:
Surely you’ve seen the crowds chanting “Death to America”. They mean you too, unless you convert to Islam.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
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Oh, please. Islam has nothing to do with it. The fact is that we orchestrated the overthrow of their democratically-elected president back in 1953 and installed a despotic dictator just to prevent Iran from nationalizing its oil industry. I can’t blame them for still holding a grudge.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:29 pmAbu Ben Hussein Leporello Says:
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This is Superb! The departing Clinton administration left the incoming administration plans to Capture or Kill Bin Laden. The incoming administration trashed those plans ’cause they came from the Clinton Administration. By way of payback, the departing administration will leave an incoming Obama Administration a nice, neat war on its hands. Now that’s Christian Charity at its finest! And that will show you unappreciative 93%ers just what a petulant, spoiled frat boy can Really accomplish!
June 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pmImpeach Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution, Along With Countless Thousands of Lives!
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I might also mention that the Clinton Administration did not attack Afghanistan because evidence of Bin Forgotten involvement in the attack on the USS Cole was not in. Out of respect for the incoming administration, he left the response and the plan to take out Bin Laden wait for the evidence. When the evidence materialized in February, BushCon just yawned. That was their first missed opportunity to avert 9/11.
Just further proof that the Reichwing still has a base because, roughly, a significant minority is batscat crazy. But bombing Iran on the way out would certainly be consistent with Bush’s juvenile pattern of behavior. It would be the Mad POTUS version of tossing a stink-bomb as one leaves a room. He’ll probably defecate on every piece of rug in the WH as well.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pmToasterhead:
While diplomacy is clearly desirable, we cannot seriously believe that Iran has been avoiding the IAEA and going through the expense of sanctions just to make a little money on electrical power. The most optimistic assessment is that Iran has stopped warhead work. This means they used to work on warheads. They may have stopped only because they were done, and needed to focus on refining uranium, which is harder.
Hamas and Hezbullah do not work by your value system. You do not engage in suicide bombing. Their belief in Paradise-through-martyrdom, and their love of death mean no nukes for them. Ever. Their ideas are not like your ideas.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:41 pmIs that a threat? Keep the Republicans in power or we’ll start World War III?
June 5th, 2008 at 4:47 pmAgain, the Shia in Iraq have been RELATIVELY QUIET, but it is WELL-KNOWN that if the US attacks IRAN, the Shia in IRAQ will
begin to SLAUGHTER the US soldiers and contractors who occupy their country ILLEGALLY, and justly so…
I mean, wouldn’t WE be KILLING people who OCCUPIED our country?
The BLOOD of more US soldiers and Iraqis is on the hands of MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA…
June 5th, 2008 at 4:50 pmToasterhead:
You’d think the takedown of Mossedegh 55 years ago would no longer be uppermost in their minds, and that their takeover of the US Embassy during the Carter administration would be all the vengeance anybody would need.
Or do you believe the coup was Original Sin that can never be erased?
And the hanging and other suppression of the Bahai in Iran has nothing to do with Islam? And the hanging of Gays? They’re both in response to the coup 55 years ago, and not from Sharia?
June 5th, 2008 at 4:52 pmRick Y Says:
While diplomacy is clearly desirable, we cannot seriously believe that Iran has been avoiding the IAEA and going through the expense of sanctions just to make a little money on electrical power. The most optimistic assessment is that Iran has stopped warhead work. This means they used to work on warheads. They may have stopped only because they were done, and needed to focus on refining uranium, which is harder.
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All the more reason to engage them diplomatically, rather than continue saber-rattling and give them a legitimate reason to restart their nuclear weapons program.
Hamas and Hezbullah do not work by your value system. You do not engage in suicide bombing. Their belief in Paradise-through-martyrdom, and their love of death mean no nukes for them. Ever. Their ideas are not like your ideas.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
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Hamas and Hezbollah are not actually cartoon supervillains who engage in evil for the sake of evil, and they’re not crazy psychopaths. They are military-backed organizations that have political objectives. The only reason they use kamikaze tactics is because that’s the only way they know to fight a lopsided war against an overwhelming occupying force. That’s what insurgencies do. They don’t kill just for the sake of killing.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:54 pmPresident-elect Obama should make it clear to the Generals that any attack on Iran during the transition period without the constitutional approval of Congress will result in immediate dishonorable discharge with loss of rank upon his swearing in.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:57 pmRick Y Says:
Toasterhead:
You’d think the takedown of Mossedegh 55 years ago would no longer be uppermost in their minds, and that their takeover of the US Embassy during the Carter administration would be all the vengeance anybody would need.
Or do you believe the coup was Original Sin that can never be erased?
Well, the Holocaust was over 60 years ago - I don’t see the Israelis forgiving that original sin any time soon.
And the hanging and other suppression of the Bahai in Iran has nothing to do with Islam? And the hanging of Gays? They’re both in response to the coup 55 years ago, and not from Sharia?
June 5th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
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In response? No. They’re simply population control by an authoritarian regime. That’s what authoritarian regimes do, even semi-democratic ones. It’s all still the product of blowback from the Mossadegh coup, though.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:57 pmJohn Kerry Says:
Let’s hope this is true!!
I can’t WAIT for MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA to DEOP DEAD and go home to his MASTER Satan for ETERNITY.
Along with TRAITOR Ronnie Reagan, now DEAD and BURNING.
The WORLD will CELEBRATE the DEMISE of EVIL, same when Cheney DROPS DEAD.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:58 pmToasterhead:
Diplomatic engagement goes on all the time. One of the diplomatic moves is to refuse to meet face-to-face, to send and receive messages through the Europeans, by public speaking, and to organize sanctions in the UN and so forth. This is hardball diplomacy, but it is diplomatic engagement.
Head-of-State meetings happen after the lower-level diplomats work something out, not before.
Hamas and Hez. have political goals, yes, of course, as well as religious goals. Both are implemented through suicide bombing, terrorism, and highly irregular warfare all over the world, but mostly in the Middle East. No nukes for them. Ever. Whatever it takes. No nuclear wars allowed. Not even small ones. Ever.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
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Rick Y Says:
Toasterhead:
You’d think the takedown of Mossedegh 55 years ago would no longer be uppermost in their minds, and that their takeover of the US Embassy during the Carter administration would be all the vengeance anybody would need.
Or do you believe the coup was Original Sin that can never be erased?
Well, the Holocaust was over 60 years ago - I don’t see the Israelis forgiving that original sin any time soon.
Toasterhead! Buddy! You surely didn’t just equate a coup d’etat with the Holocaust? C’mon!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pmI really don’t think Bush cares about his legacy at this point. At one point, the egotistical bent of the loser was what caused Bush’s War in Iraq. The Chimpfck wanted to be remembered as a War President.
But now, the same petty insecurities that drove the first Bush’s War will be what drives Bush to bomb Iran. He sees how hated he is, and that his leagcy is shit on a shingle, so as a last defiant measure he will show us by God! Take that you 75%ers! What are you going to do about that???
To deal with a madman, you first have to have something he wants. If it’s not legacy, and it’s not how he is perceived, and it’s definitely not doing the right thing, what the hell does the POS want?
And if you can’t reason with the bastard, taser him and and his Dick and lock them up.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:05 pmRemember, the Iraqi Shia will SLAUGHTER the OCCUPYING troops and contractors in Iraq if the US attacks Iran.
Definitely JUSTIFED if they do, and the BLOOD is on the hands of MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA.
Who will BURN for ETERNITY, along with TRAITOR Ronnie Reagan, now DEAD and BURNING…
BURN, MOTHA, BURN!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:07 pmRick Y Says:
No nukes for them. Ever. Whatever it takes. No nuclear wars allowed. Not even small ones. Ever.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
“Whatever it takes?”
Are you suggesting that we use nuclear weapons to prevent a nuclear war?
Good plan!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:08 pmKeltoi Says:
Toasterhead! Buddy! You surely didn’t just equate a coup d’etat with the Holocaust? C’mon!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
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Sure, why not?
Yes, there’s a huge difference in scale, but in terms of their effect on the psyche of a population, they’re pretty similar.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:12 pmHussein tosterhead - I logged in just to recommend your comment #73.
But also to let everyone know that his quack is one of those fools that thinks that Obama is a secret Muslim.
The neocons are a bunch of babies!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:15 pmTHIS quack Pipes I meant…
June 5th, 2008 at 5:16 pmThis thing is ON before November.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:19 pmMary, does this ‘Daniel Piper’ figure look human to you?
I don’t think it’s just me..
June 5th, 2008 at 5:20 pmIt is not JUST the 1953 coup d’etat that angers the Iranians.
It was the US Installed Shah…. Reza Palavi, and his Savak secret police, that brutalized the freedoms and civil rights of Iranians for over 30 years.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:21 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
Sure, why not?
Yes, there’s a huge difference in scale, but in terms of their effect on the psyche of a population, they’re pretty similar.
ARGH! How I despise the “it’s all a matter of scale” argument. It makes the actions of the Burmese government after the cyclone the moral equivalent of Bush after Katrina, which is just totally off the wall.
But hey - it is all just scale, right?
If I goose a good looking gal walking down the street or kidnap her, rape and murder her - just a matter of scale.
Obama listened to Wright’s screeds for decades or he actually hates America and Whites - just a matter of scale.
The point: Scale matters. There is almost no behavior by an individual or group that cannot be reduced to meaningless relativity by using the scale argument.
Crap - I just used the word “relativity” in a post criticizing a guy who actually understands it…
June 5th, 2008 at 5:23 pmTo all of the trolls swooning for an Iran attack:
THREE LITTLE WORDS:
S
T
R
A
I
T
S
O
F
H
June 5th, 2008 at 5:23 pmO
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Rick Y Says:
Toasterhead:
Diplomatic engagement goes on all the time. One of the diplomatic moves is to refuse to meet face-to-face, to send and receive messages through the Europeans, by public speaking, and to organize sanctions in the UN and so forth. This is hardball diplomacy, but it is diplomatic engagement.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
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Some would call it “diplomatic engagement.” Most others would call it “being a passive-aggressive brat.” There’s really no difference between this behavior and what my five-year-old nephew does when he’s mad at his sister.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pmToasterhead, I have to take a rain check on the scale debate, I am heading out. My “at Night” account started working again, maybe I’ll see you later.
Ciao
June 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pmTake it easy, Keltoi!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:30 pmNight Keltie!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:32 pmKeltoi Says:
The point: Scale matters. There is almost no behavior by an individual or group that cannot be reduced to meaningless relativity by using the scale argument.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
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Okay, fair enough. However, my point was not to reduce the importance of the Holocauset or increase the importance of Operation Ajax. My point is that the effects on a population of any type of major paradigm-shifting event are felt for decades after, and they’re not easily forgiven or forgotten. Cubans still haven’t forgiven the Democrats for the Bay of Pigs. Armenians still haven’t forgiven the Turks/Kurds for the Armenian genocide. Some guys in Tampa still haven’t forgiven the North for winning the Civil War (see prior TP thread).
I won’t get into the debate over whether Burma or Bush responded worse to their respective cyclone disasters. I haven’t seen any evidence that the Burmese government is using their cyclone as a land grab for the elites, but I wouldn’t put it past them.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:38 pmThis is blather to confuse the Iranians. Bush won’t wait until then. The grossly unpopular, ethically challenged, heavy handed pair of Bush & Olmert will act before then.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:45 pmWhen Bush DROPS DEAD, his new MASTER Satan will SMASH BUSH’S FACE IN EVERY SECOND FOR ETERNITY!!
Final JUSTICE!!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:52 pmJust because history isn’t important to Americans doesn’t mean the rest of the world shares that defect. We are messing with cultures which can trace their bloodlines, their triumphs, their defeats, and their grudges, back for centuries. To many of them we are just the latest in an endless parade of invaders who will get fed up or bored and, ultimately, be cast out just like the rest. They are very patient people because they know they will push us out. Even if it takes centuries.
Any attack on Iran is likely to end any hope of peace in our time. Bush’s apocalyptic vision of permanent war would become reality, until someone cooked off a nuke. But, what the Hell. “True Christians”(TM) would be saved anyway and, maybe, the roaches and scorpions will make a better dominant life form than what we’ve got.
The mere fact that anyone can seriously propose an imminent strike on Iran, without being locked in the loony bin, indicates that our country is still in the grips of dangerously delusional people.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:58 pmOn a related note. It looks like Bushco will be naming a new Air Force Chief of Staff. Does anyone doubt the winner will be the one with the most aggressive stance towards Iran?
http://afp.google.com/ article/ ALeqM5gtQCCIliVPWlYHBCHNVZPNqqt-Gw
June 5th, 2008 at 6:22 pmY’know,I think this is just a bunch of bored, think-tank bottle babies, trying to one-up each other, and see who can out-bellicose the others. Just watch; next week Bolton will be saying that we must invade, because he’s convinced Saddam hid his WMD’s in Iran.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:45 pmMany people think that we should cruxify the Jews if Bush invades Iran.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:58 pmWhy wait until after the election, when a war with Iran would have such a salutary effect of uniting the nation behind our military heroes — and those who are strong on military defence — in times of peril? This inspiration to patriotism and national unity could only help the Republicans in the elections, and that’s what it’s all about….
</RepublicanStrategerySpeak™>
Cheers,
June 5th, 2008 at 8:07 pmLet’s not forget the possibility of another staged terrorist attack preceding another criminal invasion. Can’t have one without the other!
We now the Chimp A 3rd Pearl Harbor
June 5th, 2008 at 9:54 pmTo military commanders I say, use good judgement. Bush is out of his pea brain mind.
Here is the long and short of it. As a military commander would you take orders from an impaired person?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:56 pmPressure them into doing what?
Our own NIE states that Iran stopped their really weak program they had back about 4 or 5 years ago. That is a fact. That is all 18 intelligence agencies stating the same thing. It’s unanimous. Yet Bush and Cheney keep on insisting they stop their Nuke program. The one they already stopped.
If they have already stopped what is it that you want them to stop doing?
They are allowed to enrich as much uranium as they feel like enriching under international law and treaty. That is a fact. Look it up, I’ll wait.
If we want them to stop doing that, then we have to offer them something in return, like all the free enriched uranium they want, their choice on how much.
Otherwise we need to just shut the hell up and stop trying to start another war of aggression.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:56 amBut but but, that little guy with that coat from “Chess King” said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map….
June 6th, 2008 at 1:17 amSo now Bush is blackmailing his own country. Isn’t blackmail illegal. This is just scary. Fascist pricks.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:49 pmBush failed to divert the river of money from social security to the over-leveraged securities markets and private central banks. If estimates are correct and the leverage in the markets is 100 to 1 or greater then chaos and war would be a convienent cover to print even more currency to unwind the leverage mess, thus diluting the value of the dollar even more. This asset theft is global in scale and being committed through the federal reserve the ECB and of course the G8. If Bush invades Iran your money will become ass rags and commodities will spike. not that it would matter much compared to another horrific tragedy of humanity caused by
June 6th, 2008 at 11:01 pmBush Cheney and Rove…..and maybe the Rothschilds??
But what about the Bush legacy?
June 9th, 2008 at 7:27 am