ThinkFast: June 5, 2008
ThinkFast: June 5, 2008
Today, the Senate Intelligence Committee will release “the last in a series of reports” on the Bush administration’s use of false intelligence ahead of the Iraq invasion. “The report reinvigorates a longstanding debate over whether the intelligence failures in the lead-up to the Iraq war were largely because of faulty intelligence or because of policy makers’ faulty use of intelligence.”
The Bush administration is bypassing the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee and is talking directly with Democrats about re-writing the nation’s surveillance laws. ““He’s not really in it,” Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) says of his colleague, Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO). “Bond, he’s just complicating things.” Bond said the White House has “assured him that it was not negotiating behind his back.”
While President Bush has been “on a crusade against lawmakers’ pet projects” known as earmarks, today “he plans to attend a groundbreaking ceremony for a $100 million whopper that was slipped into a spending bill almost four years ago.” The funds were earmarked for the new headquarters of the U.S. Institute of Peace.
In an attempt “to tie Democrats to high gas prices,” House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) is urging Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) to bring global warming legislation to the floor “as soon as possible.” GOP leaders are calling the legislation a “cap-and-tax” plan.
We’re introducing a new feature in the morning ThinkFast called “on the trail.” We’ll be letting you know what the two major presidential candidates are up to each day.
On the trail today: Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) will campaign in Virginia, alongside Sen. Jim Webb, Senate candidate Mark Warner, and Gov. Tim Kaine. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will hold fundraisers in Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale.
“Sens. Barack Obama (D-IL) and John McCain (R-AZ) are quietly working together on a good-government bill” authored by Obama and Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK). McCain’s Senate office contacted Obama’s on Monday, asking to sign on to the bill “opening federal government contracts to public scrutiny.” Obama’s staff was happy to comply because “they knew support from the two presumptive nominees” would help the measure pass.
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) plans to “endorse Senator Barack Obama on Saturday, bringing a close to her 17-month campaign for the White House,” reports the New York Times. “Howard Wolfson, one of Mrs. Clinton’s chief strategists, and other aides said she would express support for Mr. Obama and party unity at an event in Washington that day.”
According to a new Pew Hispanic Center report, “[u]nemployment among Latinos — particularly immigrants — jumped in the last year, wiping out many of their economic gains.” The report also found that “aggressive new enforcement raids by immigration officials may be a contributing factor to the rising rate of joblessness.”
Yesterday, a pair of explosions in Baghdad killed at least 22 people as “insurgents launched attacks aimed at Iraqi police officers. It was the deadliest day in the capital in several months. Three U.S. soldiers were killed by small-arms fire in an attack in Hawija, near the northern oil city of Kirkuk.”
And finally: Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV) was hospitalized Monday, “shortly after he released a strongly-worded statement condemning Vice President Dick Cheney for making an incest joke” at the expense of his state. Yesterday, Byrd was reportedly feeling “much better,” and “had just one burning question for his staff during a conference call with aides this morning: Did the vice president apologize yet to the people of West Virginia?” (He had.)
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
strong>Obama Resists Pressure From Clinton for Vice President Role
Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, is gearing up for a tough face-to-face confrontation with his defeated rival Hillary Clinton over her demand to become the vice-presidential candidate. The Obama camp, though anxious to pull the party together after a bitterly fought contest with Clinton, is hostile to the idea of having her on a joint ticket. They fear that having her and Bill Clinton in the heart of the campaign and in the White House would be disruptive.
Clinton is expected to end her campaign for the White House tomorrow, bowing to pressure from Democratic leaders to help the party unite around Obama as the nominee. Her exit arrived after signs of rising frustration from Democratic members of Congress at Clinton’s refusal to concede the race or congratulate Obama for clinching the nomination. They feared Clinton’s refusal to acknowledge her defeat could hurt the party’s prospects against the Republican John McCain in November.
Clinton aides said she made the decision following a late afternoon conference call with 22 Democratic leaders who had been supporting her campaign. One of those supporters, the New York member of Congress, Charlie Rangel, was visibly angry, chiding Clinton in TV interviews for failing to acknowledge Obama’s victory.
In an indication that he was preparing to snub her for the vice-presidential role, Obama confirmed that he is commissioning three prominent Democrats to vet potential vice-presidential candidates. They are Caroline Kennedy, a member of one of America’s most prominent political families and an early Obama supporter; Jim Johnson, a Democratic businessman; and Eric Holder, deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration.
The former Democratic president Jimmy Carter highlighted the dilemma when, in a Guardian interview, he said it would be a mistake for Obama to have her as his vice-presidential nominee. “I think it would be the worst mistake that could be made,” said Carter, who endorsed Obama on Tuesday night. “That would accumulate the negative aspects of both candidates.”
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/04/9428/
It will be interesting to see who Caroline Kennedy, Jim Johnson and Eric Holder come up with for possible vice-presidential candidates. It has been the most exciting race in my lifetime. I would like to see Richardson and Edwards be considered. Whichever one doesn’t get chosen for VP slot; would be part of the New Administration along with Kucinich. To show bipartisanship, Hagel would be a great choice in the New Administration as the Secretary of Defense.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:01 amI’d like to quote this from Mark Kleiman’s blog:
Makes sense to me.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:03 amThank you, TP, for your new “On the Trail” feature. It makes things easier for those of us interested in monitoring the candidates. Good job!
June 5th, 2008 at 9:06 amStudy secretly tracks cell phone users outside US
Researchers secretly tracked the locations of 100,000 people outside the United States through their cell phone use and concluded that most people rarely stray more than a few miles from home. The first-of-its-kind study by Northeastern University raises privacy and ethical questions for its monitoring methods, which would be illegal in the United States.
It also yielded somewhat surprising results that reveal how little people move around in their daily lives. Nearly three-quarters of those studied mainly stayed within a 20-mile-wide circle for half a year. That type of nonconsensual tracking would be illegal in the United States, according to Rob Kenny, a spokesman for the Federal Communications Commission. Consensual tracking, however, is legal and even marketed as a special feature by some U.S. cell phone providers.
The study, published Thursday in the journal Nature, opens up the field of human-tracking for science and calls attention to what experts said is an emerging issue of locational privacy. They started with 6 million phone numbers and chose the 100,000 at random to provide “an extra layer” of anonymity for the research subjects, he said.
http://www.rawstory.com/ news/ mochila/ Study_secretly_tracks_cell_phone_us_06042008.html
Tracking cell phones is an invasion of personal privacy. Researchers say that “travel patterns help design better transportation systems and give doctors guidance in fighting the spread of contagious diseases”.
Federal judge allows Blackwater to open San Diego facility
A federal judge has ordered the city of San Diego to allow military contractor Blackwater Worldwide to begin using a new counterterrorism training facility. District Court Judge Marilyn Huff ruled Wednesday that the company would suffer irreparable harm if it could not begin holding classes for Navy sailors at a converted warehouse outfitted with an indoor firing range. The city responded that the company misled officials about the nature of the facility.
http://www.rawstory.com/ news/ mochila/ Federal_judge_allows_Blackwater_to__06042008.html
June 5th, 2008 at 9:07 amThank you, TP, for joining the presidential campaign coverage.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am“The report reinvigorates a longstanding debate over whether the intelligence failures in the lead-up to the Iraq war were largely because of faulty intelligence or because of policy makers’ faulty use of intelligence.”
What a bunch of B.S. It was clear long ago that the Bush administration rigged the intelligence and lied about it. What is going on now isn’t a debate, it is an attempt by Bush and his supporters to ignore, cover up, and defend Bush’s treasonous rule.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:09 amIn an attempt “to tie Democrats to high gas prices,” House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) is urging Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) to bring global warming legislation to the floor “as soon as possible.” GOP leaders are calling the legislation a “cap-and-tax” plan.
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Lemme get this straight — the GOP has gotten us into the quagmire in Iraq, p!ssed off most of the Middle East (as well as the rest of the world), caused our dollar to sink like a stone — all of which has had an effect on what we pay for oil. And now they want to blame Democrats and the fight against global warming? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You gotta admit, that takes stones the size of watermelons.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:10 amI have a friend in London who emailed me yesterday about Obama. He was very pleased. I think we might have bought back some of our reputation in the international community with that choice.
Can’t wait to see how many wounds are actually mended once he becomes President and gets us out of Iraq… Will be nice.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:10 am>““He’s not really in it,” Sen. Jay Rockefeller
Right, Rockefeller the scumbag has taken large amounts of money from AT+T in the past year or so, gee I wonder why.
Sorry telecoms, no matter how much you bribe our senators, you can’t buy legistlation that legitimizes constitutional violations. I predict this stuff will have its day in court, one day, sooner or later..
June 5th, 2008 at 9:11 amTrials in Gitmo starting today:
http://www.nytimes.com/ aponline/ world/ AP-Guantanamo-Sept-11-Trial.html?hp
9/11 plotters in the dock, American Justice about to be cross-examined.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:14 amWell TP, congratulations on the “on the trail” feature, but that is not enough. You will need to include what’s going on with Obama in your daily postings the same way you do with McCain. But, it’s a good start.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:15 amI’m glad that Clinton will finally own up to reality, concede that Obama has crossed the finish line, and work to unify the party. When I heard her speech Tuesday evening, I wasn’t so sure.
It’s a pity that it took a “WTF ARE YOU DOING????” phone call from her supporters in the House and Senate to bring her to earth.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:15 amLove the “On the trail” addition/idea. Thanks.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:15 amThe United States Institute of Peace is an independent, nonpartisan institution established and funded by Congress. Its goals are to help prevent and resolve violent international conflicts, promote post-conflict stability and development, and increase conflict management capacity, tools, and intellectual capital worldwide.
And the warmonger president and do-nothing speaker of the house are scheduled to speak at the opening ceremonies.
Is this a great country or what?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:16 amClinton’s decision to end her campaigning and support Obama was announced to the press but no one called the Obama camp to inform them directly. Poor form, Hillary!
I am beginning to think that she is pouting a lot. Sure hope that Obama doesn’t put her on the ticket. The only thing worse than a woman scorned (Hillary) is a former president who sees his status in his party and his legacy being overshadowed (Bill).
Obama would be much, much better off with someone like Bill Richardson. The Clintons will dangle their 18 million voters in front of Obama’s nose but I hope he resists the political pressure. His choice of VP needs to fit with how he will govern — Hillary and Bill would be a disaster.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:16 amFreedom Rebel Says:
Obama Resists Pressure From Clinton for Vice President Role
It really doesn’t matter. Hillary isn’t interested in the VP slot because Obama said she will have to be completely vetted before he would consider her. That would mean that Bill would have to turn over his donor list for his Presidential library. That is something Bill doesn’t want to do. It probably would not stand up to scrutiny.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:17 amFederal judge allows Blackwater to open San Diego facility
Federal judge allows military contractor Blackwater to begin training at San Diego warehouse
A federal judge has ordered the city of San Diego to allow military contractor Blackwater Worldwide to begin using a new counterterrorism training facility.
District Court Judge Marilyn Huff ruled Wednesday that the company would suffer irreparable harm if it could not begin holding classes for Navy sailors at a converted warehouse outfitted with an indoor firing range.
Blackwater sued last month to force the city to issue final occupancy permits after the required inspections were already approved.
The city responded that the company misled officials about the nature of the facility.
http://www.rawstory.com/ news/ mochila/ Federal_judge_allows_Blackwater_to__06042008.html
**This is not good news. Suffer irreparable harm? We are the ones suffering irreparable harm…the Iraqis are suffering ireparable hard. But, one again, corporatism over public interest prevails.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:18 amWe’re introducing a new feature in the morning ThinkFast called “on the trail.” We’ll be letting you know what the two major presidential candidates are up to each day.
But…what about your tax-exempt status? Aren’t you putting that in jeapordy? Sorry to be so snarky, but this does show that you could have been covering campaign news events all along.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:19 amI don’t know what difference it makes. Rockefeller appears to be snug in the gold-lined pockets of the telecom giants as well as being leery of the “soft on terrism” label. What I’ve read of the committee’s recommended legislative changes seems to give King George all he wants. I hope I’m wrong about that. Seems the best thing we can hope for is a punt to next year.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:21 amThe funds were earmarked for the new headquarters of the U.S. Institute of Peace.
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OK, this is good for another laugh. I don’t need to read the funny papers at all — this morning’s ThinkFast thread is already giving me all the giggles I need.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the quest for peace might go further in the correct direction if, instead of spending $100 million on a shiny new building, we SAVE billions of dollars by not wantonly invading other countries?
What’s wrong with this picture? Does anyone else see some incongruence here?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:21 amIn an attempt “to tie Democrats to high gas prices,”
Sorry Republicans, it isn’t going to work. The American public isn’t going to guy the notion that the Democrats had anything to do with the high price of gasoline.
It will be very interesting, though, to see how they plan on linking the global warming legislation to the high price of gasoline.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:22 amtom Says: Obama would be much, much better off with someone like Bill Richardson. The Clintons will dangle their 18 million voters in front of Obama’s nose but I hope he resists the political pressure. His choice of VP needs to fit with how he will govern — Hillary and Bill would be a disaster.
I really do not think Clinton will get the VP slot. Obama has hinted to a Cabinet position instead - and one of the tlking heads who has a friend in the Obama camp said that he was thinking of putting her on HHS to work on her legacy of healthcare. That makes the most sense to me.
I like Bill Richardson. I thought that in the debates he was very in touch with reality, and seems to have a lot of good judgment and experience. Recently saw him give Lou Dobbs crap for his “Oh my god they are going to give those Mexicans amnisty” nonsense. A govenor would be a good choice to balance out the ticket.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:23 amAnd the timing has nothing to do with Obama finally clinching the Democratic Nomination for President.
Get ready for a long procession of fear-mongering between now and November.
Be afwaid. Be vewy, vewy afwaid…
June 5th, 2008 at 9:23 amTo #18, you’ll note that we’re covering both candidates in the “on the trail.”
June 5th, 2008 at 9:23 amMs_Joanne Says:
I’d like to quote this from Mark Kleiman’s blog:
It should, but probably doesn’t, go without saying that from now through November 5 Obama supporters should say as many nice things as they can about HRC and her supporters, and no not-nice things whatever. The healing has to start with us, and it has to start right now.
Makes sense to me.
I’m all for the healing to begin and I promise that as of today, I won’t criticize Hillary’s supporters. But, I don’t understand why it is up to us to start the healing when it was Hillary who caused the rift.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:24 amnew headquarters of the U.S. Institute of Peace.
You mean the U.S. Institute of Hubris, Hegemony, Ethnic Cleansing and Perpetual War.
that’s more like it, folks.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:25 ammisshusseinmolly, (#20)
It’s not just you… a “Peace Center” just sounds Orwellian to me, coming, as it does, from this administration.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:26 amBriseadh na Faire Says:
But…what about your tax-exempt status? Aren’t you putting that in jeapordy? Sorry to be so snarky, but this does show that you could have been covering campaign news events all along.
Wait a minute. Was TP claiming that they couldn’t cover the race between Hillary and Obama because of their tax status? That’s ridiculous.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:27 amDomestic Workers Sue, Lobby, Organize For Workplace Rights
She says she crossed the border from Mexico and found work as a live-in housekeeper for a family that never let her out of their sight. At first, her employers paid her $200 a month for cooking, cleaning and care-taking from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m., seven days a week. Then they stopped paying the woman, who did not want her name used because she is in the country illegally.
Still, she stayed. She had nowhere else to go. She said her bosses told her that if she left, she could be arrested and thrown back to Mexico, where her family had no means of support. “What did I know?” she said at a domestic workers’ support group at La Raza Centro Legal, an immigrants’ rights center in San Francisco. The organization also has a labor center that the woman used to find new employment.
Domestic workers have no right to overtime, sick time, vacation, health care and workers’ compensation in most states, and the immigrants among them often have it even worse. But many domestic workers are finding their voices. They are suing employers who abuse them, organizing cooperatives to demand fair wages and lobbying politicians to change laws that exclude household workers from labor protections most employees take for granted.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/04/9420/
What is really tragic is that these domestic workers see their employer’s everyday. It’s not like they are invisible; but that the employer’s would treat their pet better. They are truly vulnerable because most can barely speak the language and some have very little formal education. I know some people will say they are undocumented workers and they should just go back to their own country. But even the US citizen workers are being treated like slaves, either way documented or undocumented that is inhumane. Instead of that ideology, anger against these workers, look to NAFTA for creating part of the problems that these people have. Another one of the biggest problems is Free Trade Agreements that has forced them to come here to find work also. (Don’t get me started on how unfair Free Trade is)
Do people honestly believe that they would rather be here than with their families? In some cases that is true, but if they had a choice, in most instances, I believe they would rather be closer to their families. It is out of necessity; they need to send money home to support many members of their family. Bottom line if your family was hungry or did not have suitable living conditions, wouldn’t you go to any measure (leave your country) to solve that problem as a parent or family member? I think the answer in most cases would be a resounding yes. I would, I couldn’t sit by and do nothing. We have the luxury of not ever having to face that situation, because of the country we were born in.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:29 ammediamonkey Says: Foreign dictators love the idea of Obama’s chances at the white house! And who could blame them. We can finally get out of their hair so they can get back to genocide.
I bet you’d be the first person to whine if someone invaded your state and forced their way of life on you.
The ignorance of the conservative movement has grown old. Go educate yourself.
Obama’s ex-church has won $15 million in federal funds
Do you not understand the definition of “ex” (former)?
Obama praised Wright, criticized black churches on homosexuality
Stop lying. You see, we do educate ourselves. We also have and use critical thinking skills so that we can logically discern what sounds logical and what’s utter crap. We don’t believe stuff just because you SAY it.
Now go find the nearest library or bookstore and stop annoying us.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:29 amRight. Put two oil guys in the land’s two highest offices; they in turn bring a fleet of other oil persons aboard; they then write policy in secret which mirrors that of the American Petroleum Institute; the price of gas quadruples; it’s all the fault of the guys who’ve had no input at all. Can we get a picture of the Chevron tanker before they quietly changed the name from the Condoleeza Rice? What did they change the name to, again? The “No One Could Foresee?”
June 5th, 2008 at 9:30 amhttp://www.actblue.com/page/fisa
http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa/asks/new
Please support the people who are fighting against scumbags like rockefeller who are trying to strip us of our constitutional right be free of waranteless searches/survelliance..
I highly encourage anyone who is concernd about the telecom immnity issue give these guys a 5 or 10 dollar donation, or if money is too tight, at least use the 2nd link to pass the info along to you friends.. I have NEVER seen anyone try to kill a lawsuit like the powers that be are trying to kill this one, if you ever wanted a reason to like lawyers, lawsuits like this are a darn good one.. they are about the only way to get underneath these peoples armor these days..
June 5th, 2008 at 9:30 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
——————————————————————————–
Freedom Rebel Says:
Obama Resists Pressure From Clinton for Vice President Role
It really doesn’t matter. Hillary isn’t interested in the VP slot because Obama said she will have to be completely vetted before he would consider her. That would mean that Bill would have to turn over his donor list for his Presidential library. That is something Bill doesn’t want to do. It probably would not stand up to scrutiny.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:17 am
That’s a pretty smooth way to get around the pressure to put Hil on the ticket. :)
She doesn’t want the VP spot anyway…
June 5th, 2008 at 9:31 amCaption:
“My banana is bigger than your banana…ooo…ooo…ooo”
June 5th, 2008 at 9:32 amBecause it is our country at stake. Nothing less. And nothing is more important than that right now.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:32 amtom Says
June 5th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Obama would be much, much better off with someone like Bill Richardson. The Clintons will dangle their 18 million voters in front of Obama’s nose but I hope he resists the political pressure. His choice of VP needs to fit with how he will govern — Hillary and Bill would be a disaster.
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Not to worry. If Obama had ANY ideas of entertaining Hillary in the veep slot, I doubt he would have put Caroline Kennedy on his veep search party.
Besides, as Bilbo pointed out, Obama will have a deep vetting process for anyone he invites to join him on the ticket. This will shut Hillary up like a clam. Oh, she will claim that “no one has been vetted more than I have”, but Obama will have none of that. And Hillary will not want to release the donor list for Bill’s library.
And finally — those 18 million votes? Those aren’t the same as delegates she can hold hostage or release at will. Most of those votes (except for the ones from Republicans crossing over to vote for her because they perceived her as the weaker candidate) will go to Obama, rather than McCain. Despite what “republicans hate facts” would have us believe.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:32 am“It will be very interesting, though, to see how they plan on linking the global warming legislation to the high price of gasoline.”
They have been successful at convincing some of their dumber supporters that lack of refinery capacity (the fault of enviro-wackos, of course) is causing the high prices, not oil at $130 a barrel. You have to be really stupid to believe this, but some people do believe it.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:34 amJeez, it must seem I am picking on you…I am not.
To choose one candidate over another (Obama v. Clinton) is choosing sides. If they cover things that take place, that’s different.
And, as I said before, TP is about issues. You can go to Carpetbagger, C&L and how many others to get individual candidate news. I love TP for its coverage of issues. I don’t want this site to get bogged down in election coverage.
They do issues well. Please let them continue to do so. Where else do you get up to the minute snippets of issues?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:35 ammediamonkey Says: Where is the childish name calling and the whining?
At Little Green Footballs. I suggest you go there. They don’t read books either.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:36 am“The report reinvigorates a longstanding debate over whether the intelligence failures in the lead-up to the Iraq war were largely because of faulty intelligence or because of policy makers’ faulty use of intelligence.”
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How about the policy makers’ lack of intelligence?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:36 amCheney Called Clinton-Era Sanctions Against Iran Bad for Halliburton
By Jason Leopold
The Public Record
When Dick Cheney was chief executive of Halliburton in the 1990s, he urged Congress to ease sanctions against Iran and enter into diplomatic discussions with the country’s leaders so the oil-field services company could legally do business there.
“Let me make a generalized statement about a trend I see in the U.S. Congress that I find disturbing, that applies not only with respect to the Iranian situation but a number of others as well,” Cheney said at the time. “I think we Americans sometimes make mistakes…There seems to be an assumption that somehow we know what’s best for everybody else and that we are going to use our economic clout to get everybody else to live the way we would like.”
http://www.pubrecord.org/ index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=83&Itemid=8
**My good friend Calibleu called this a hair on fire moment after reading this. Do these people forget that we have access to historical video and print records…or do they even care? Emphasis in the article was mine. Just read it and shake your head in wonder.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am#16 Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
Obama Resists Pressure From Clinton for Vice President Role
It really doesn’t matter. Hillary isn’t interested in the VP slot because Obama said she will have to be completely vetted before he would consider her. That would mean that Bill would have to turn over his donor list for his Presidential library. That is something Bill doesn’t want to do. It probably would not stand up to scrutiny.
According to her aides and other democratic backers, she wants to because it would help the ticket. According to sources, she has said that it would help him with the hispanic vote and women’s vote.
You have a good point though, I read several articles yesterday that wasn’t mention in those. I didn’t know that about Bill. Thanks for the info Bilbo. Have a good day!!
June 5th, 2008 at 9:38 ammediamonkey Says:
Is that all you got? Man you libs are getting soft. Where is the childish name calling and the whining
Don’t like it? Then take a hike.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:39 amA secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the US presidential election in November.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:40 amThat’s the Congressional Republican caucus we know and loathe.
When a problem arises (generally of their own making) don’t work to address it, simply work to blame it on Democrats. Nicely played, Rep. Boehner.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:42 amTo #25. I note that. But if you can do that now, without distrubing your tax status, you could have done that earlier.
I, for one, would like to see Think “Progress” to be about Progress, not about any one individual. Your readers and regular bloggers are very astute. (trolls excepted) You’ve received recognition and awards in some part due to our participation and our quality of writing.
Giving us bogus excuses for not following the Democratic campaign is, to me, disrespectful. It’s like saying I’m not intelligent enough to see through the bogus excuse. And, yes, I believe “jeapordizing your tax status” was a bogus excuse for not covering the campaign trail before now.
This is a good site, Faiz, but it could be better. Hopefully, this is a step in the right direction.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:42 amA secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the US presidential election in November.
I seriously doubt this “deal”, whatever it is, will in any way be binding on Obama. Given the Bush administration’s track record of nonstop failure, it is likely the deal will never come to fruition, or will be so badly botched that it is DOA, just like the Iraqi government itself.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:43 amMcCains fundraising stagnant:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/10868
Fox’s Murdoch predicts Republicans will lose big, calls McCain unpreditable, ignorant:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/ 2008/ 05/ 29/ murdoch-predicts-mccain-will-lose/
“While calling himself a friend of McCain, Murdoch said his lengthy stint in Congress has led the Arizona senator to make so many compromises that it is not clear where he stands on the major issues. He also called McCain “unpredictable,” and questioned his knowledge on economic issues. “
June 5th, 2008 at 9:43 amThree U.S. soldiers were killed by small-arms fire in an attack in Hawija, near the northern oil city of Kirkuk.
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And June gets off to a great start. I have a feeling that the “low” figure of 19 American deaths in May was an anomaly, and not the beginning of a trend.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:44 amI hope Bill Richardson is at the top of the list for VP.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:46 amClinton would not pass the vetting process,not to mention that repugs would come out of the woodwork to vote against a ticket with her on it.
mediamonkey Says:
Let me suggest a little reading to help you better understand where the republicans are coming from.
1. Win at all costs.
2. Party before country.
3. Use the machinery of government to reward friends and punish enemies.
4. Oppose the rule of law, especially the U.S. Constitution.
5. Advocate torture.
6. Commit treason.
What more do we need to know?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:46 ammediamonkey Says: Let me suggest a little reading to help you better understand where the republicans are coming from. Comparative Politics Today: A World View by Gabriel A. Almond
This will get ya started.
I know where Republicans are coming from. I used to be one. About 10 years ago, I started thinking for myself, traveling around the world, reading non-fiction, and in time, it was only inevitable that I ended up a liberal. I like it much better.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:46 amI haven’t heard of a deal yet that couldn’t be undone by a subsequent administration. After all, didn’t we have a deal worked out between “We the People” and our Government? It was called a Constitution. It was supposed to last forever. But it was undone by this Administration, with Congress’s blessings.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am#41 et al - great posts this morning and, as usual, wonderful food for thought. No doubt the Bush Admin will continue to attempt to spin the “faulty intel propaganda”; however, the people know the truth about the cherry-picking, editing, and omitting that went on which translates as “bold faced lying”. Their gig is totally up and he will make history for being as the worst leader we’ve ever had and a known liar to boot.
As for the HRC stuff, I fear that her baggage (ala hubby) and the vetting which needs to occur will automatically disqualify her to secure the Veep position. I hope (and believe) that the pundits are hyperbolizing the fact that her supporters would rather vote for a Repuke then Obama. The party will coalesce around their new candidate quickly in the coming days and weeks and “Obama-Mania” and the prospect of hope which it represents will sweep this nation like a tsunami.
Besides, any one of the Dem candidates this term would make fab veeps although I’d love to have Edwards and his legal prowess reserved for the position of AG so he can defacto bang some serious gonads of this current corrupt administration and return us to a more prominent position internationally based on honesty, integrity, and respect.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am“…faulty intelligence or because of policy makers’ faulty use of intelligence.”
A true oxymoron in terms of G WTF Bush. He has no intelligence to use, faulty or not!
June 5th, 2008 at 9:50 amralph the wonder llama Says
June 5th, 2008 at 9:42 am
When a problem arises (generally of their own making) don’t work to address it, simply work to blame it on Democrats. Nicely played, Rep. Boehner.
_____________________________________________
And what truly boggles the mind is that this was the M.O. of the GOP during the whole time they controlled the entire government — the White House, BOTH houses of Congress, and the Supreme Court. For six years, the Dems had less power than at any other point in my lifetime (and they really don’t have that much more now), yet they were still responsible for everything bad that happened! Who knew?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:51 am#53 Brise: You got it! If the next president is Obama, he will “null and void” anything he desires and does not have to be burdened with errors in judgment of this presidunce. It all can be halted, revised, and reversed by the commander in chief as we’ve so handily witnessed with our current clown.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:51 amVerbalKint Says: What more do we need to know?
George Lakoff wrote “Don’t think of an elephant” which also gave a great description of both liberals and conservatives.
Conservatives have to have a Daddy figure who is the ultimate authority. Anyone who ever questions the Daddy figure (aka thinking for yourself) is subject to cruel punishment until he or she sees the error of his or her ways and repents. They do not understand our egalitarian way of life because they think it is without security, and leadership. They cannot understand why we are not afraid, and do not want a Daddy figure to save us.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:52 amMiss Molly: Corruption of all 3 wheels of the “stool” called this democracy (now more aptly dubbed “stoolie”) for 6 long years enabled the corruption of this country. We’re only realizing the tip of a very ugly, evil iceberg of diabolical activities which transpired during the time Bush had total control and corruption of the separation of powers. I believe when the truth is finally discovered, it will make the people’s skin crawl with disgust.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:53 amwhoops…..”legs” of the stool. Don’t know where the wheels came in except that I haven’t had my quota of high test java yet this morn and have travelling on my mind….great to be back to learn from all of the great comments here once again!
June 5th, 2008 at 9:54 amunbelievable Says:
——————————————————————————–
VerbalKint Says: What more do we need to know?
George Lakoff wrote “Don’t think of an elephant” which also gave a great description of both liberals and conservatives.
The Republican elephant always reminds me of a Family Guy episode when the father rides an elephant into his backyard for his kid’s birthday party. He says, “Look, I’m the Republican party: big, fat, and afraid of change.”
June 5th, 2008 at 9:55 amObama said he will NOT appear with Hillary on Saturday — it is her day, her time, her announcement.
I am so proud of Obama who has continued to be gracious and generous throughout this campaign.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:55 amIt’s been a long time since I was able to vote without any doubts — this time, I will do so eagerly and with pride. Though I am not Afican-American, I can only imagine the depth of pride felt by the black community. I am sure many thought they’d never see this in their lifetime. This is an historic event for all Americans - we should all be proud that we have finally come this far.
Picture Caption:
With Jeff Gannon gone, the President … well fill in the blank.
The funds were earmarked for the new headquarters of the U.S. Institute of Peace.
MiniPax, anyone?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:55 amsatirev Says: I’d love to have Edwards and his legal prowess reserved for the position of AG so he can defacto bang some serious gonads of this current corrupt administration and return us to a more prominent position internationally based on honesty, integrity, and respect.
Edwards would be the ideal AG. He’s definitely got the drive to get a lot done.
If Bush and Cheney still live in America in January 2009, they better be afraid of John Edwards. I think he has the chutzpah to investigate them.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:56 am#53 BnF
June 5th, 2008 at 9:58 amI hope you’re right. The story was in British news.
The Bush Administration has made me jittery.
Obama’s continued refusal to besmerch or lower his positive approach to life by engaging on a level lower than his personal spiritual calibration will only become stronger as the stench of McSame’s campaign of smoke, mirrors, and dirty tricks moves forward. The contrast will be blinding in the days to come. The american people are sick and tired of the vitriol and criminal activity emanating continuously from the Republican party.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:59 amBriseadh na Faire Says:
misshusseinmolly, (#20)
It’s not just you… a “Peace Center” just sounds Orwellian to me, coming, as it does, from this administration.
I agree. They should just call it the “Ministry of Peace” and get it over with.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:59 amWilco Says: The Republican elephant always reminds me of a Family Guy episode when the father rides an elephant into his backyard for his kid’s birthday party. He says, “Look, I’m the Republican party: big, fat, and afraid of change.”
LOL. Definitely afraid of change. And facts!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:00 amunbelievable,
June 5th, 2008 at 10:00 amI am always amazed at how you so aptly write exactly what is on my mind! It’s almost getting eerie - but in a good way.
unbelievable: that’s why Bush purchased that parcel in Paraguay, isn’t it? Edwards would definitely go after those two criminals like a pirannah.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:00 am>Edwards would be the ideal AG. He’s
>definitely got the drive to get a lot done.
Personally I like this ideas, amongst others, I really salivating at the prospect of some real hard hitter getting the AG job..Fitzy would make a great choice , too.,.he needs to have some role in any case. While obama isnt the vendictive type, i think he understands some heads need to roll, and some people need to go to jail, if people are ever going to repect the law.
Some of the Cheney crew DEFINITELY need to see some jail time, if this country is ever going to hold people accoutable for thier actions..
June 5th, 2008 at 10:01 amsatirev Says
June 5th, 2008 at 9:54 am
whoops…..”legs” of the stool. Don’t know where the wheels came in except that I haven’t had my quota of high test java yet this morn and have travelling on my mind….great to be back to learn from all of the great comments here once again!
______________________________________________________
Don’t be too hard on yourself — there ARE stools with wheels (http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/p1_Rubbermaid-13-Commercial-Step-Stools_91150_Business_Supplies_10051_SEARCH). We have one of these at work, and I trip over it all the time.
And I’m glad you’re back! :-)
June 5th, 2008 at 10:01 amNo doubt Bush’s “personal army” was created for that very reason - once they leave office, they will all need 24/7 personal bodyguards.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:02 amin the photo for this thread, I can’t help but regret that the kid did not have a bomb strapped on and detonated it.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:03 amMissMolly! I love your posts as well as your humor! Thanks for bailing me out. It’s great to be back and most of you really know who I am.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:03 amraynman Says
June 5th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Picture Caption:
With Jeff Gannon gone, the President … well fill in the blank.
________________________________
Did you HAVE to say “Jeff Gannon” and “fill in the blank” in the same sentence?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:03 amBoner, McConell, Blunt, Bond, Corker, Imfhofe, and yes, Bill Nelson must go.
These overpaid turds have done nothing but obstruct, blame, inhibit, obfuscate & deny the realities around them to try to gain political leverage.
With legislators like this, who needs enemas?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:04 amUncle Ho! I am ROTFLMAO with your comment #75. This photo is so childish and ridiculous that each time I see it, all I can do is laugh at (not with) this fool we have to yet tolerate until January of next year.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:05 amMarie Says: This is an historic event for all Americans - we should all be proud that we have finally come this far.
I have to wonder how much of an impact these forums and the freedom of the Internet have had on this. I really believe it’s significant.
Unfortunately, on the flip side, I heard that CBS had to shut down its comments section yesterday after the racial slurs against Obama got out of control. I sncerely do not understand this puerile mindset. What is wrong with these people?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:06 amThink how much better this will be in five months:
http://www.cbsnews.com/ stories/ 2008/ 06/ 04/ opinion/ polls/ main4154051.shtml
June 5th, 2008 at 10:08 amBriseadh na Faire Says:
Marie Says:
A secret deal being negotiated in Baghdad would perpetuate the American military occupation of Iraq indefinitely, regardless of the outcome of the US presidential election in November.
I haven’t heard of a deal yet that couldn’t be undone by a subsequent administration. After all, didn’t we have a deal worked out between “We the People” and our Government? It was called a Constitution. It was supposed to last forever. But it was undone by this Administration, with Congress’s blessings.
From last nights posting:
leftcoast Says:
The new security agreement is intended to replace the current United Nations Security Council resolutions which authorize the United States to engage in combat operations in Iraq. The UN resolutions will expire at the end of the year.
Bush disputes those who say congress must approve his agreement.
Delahunt joined with Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro (D-CT) to introduce the “Protect Our Troops and Our Constitution Act,” which calls for the extension of the UN resolutions for a brief period of time so that a new agreement can be negotiated by the incoming administration. The proposal would cut off funding for any new agreement negotiated by the Bush Administration that authorizes U.S. forces to engage in combat on behalf of the Government of Iraq without approval by Congress.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
June 5th, 2008 at 10:09 amCaption Contest:
Bush, “Hey fly-boy…don’t ask don’t tell, heh heh. I think I just felt your “top gun”! Mission accomplished!”
June 5th, 2008 at 10:10 amHave to run but will keep cogitating on a submission for this ridiculous photo.
Kudos to TP for their new addition to the site tracking the nominees! As always, great posts from intelligent, well-informed contributors. Catch all of you later!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:10 amleftcoast: your post makes us all feel better. Thanks for the info.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:11 amGood morning satirev, nice to see you blogging again.
I’m glad Hillary is going to clear the air. I still stand firm on my belief we need her in the Senate, not in Obama’s admin.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:11 amWe’ll need the Senate unified to bring justice to a whole bunch of redneck oil thieves.
Marie Says: unbelievable,
I am always amazed at how you so aptly write exactly what is on my mind! It’s almost getting eerie - but in a good way.
It’s definitely mutual. Several times I’ve thought something, and you’d written it. Very cool :D
June 5th, 2008 at 10:11 amThere is absolutely NOTHING I would like to see more than Dictator Bush getting impeached, then shipped to Iraq as a war criminal to answer for his crimes against humanity!
JT
June 5th, 2008 at 10:12 amThink your ISP is watching?
satirev Says:unbelievable: that’s why Bush purchased that parcel in Paraguay, isn’t it? Edwards would definitely go after those two criminals like a pirannah.
I hope Bush’s arrogance keeps him at the ranch. I’d love to finally see some justice. It’s long overdue!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:13 amCongrats to TP for beginning to cover the election campaigns.
Thank you.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:15 amsatirev Says:”unbelievable: that’s why Bush purchased that parcel in Paraguay, isn’t it? Edwards would definitely go after those two criminals like a pirannah.”
Can you say “extraordinary rendition”?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:17 amAmen to that, Marie. Good morning to you.
Black Americans, no doubt, will have their sigh of relief once Obama is elected. They will no longer have to look over their shoulder in paranoia that their interests aren’t being represented. White Americans should turn out in this election and prove that they are serious about improving race relations — to the highest office in the land.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:18 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
I’m glad that Clinton will finally own up to reality, concede that Obama has crossed the finish line, and work to unify the party. When I heard her speech Tuesday evening, I wasn’t so sure.
It’s a pity that it took a “WTF ARE YOU DOING????” phone call from her supporters in the House and Senate to bring her to earth.
It’s also a Godsend that this happened now while she was a candidate. Can you imagine that blinders-on-mindset resulting in a WTF ARE YOU DOING???? call as President? Oh, wait…
June 5th, 2008 at 10:23 amFreedom Rebel Says:
Study secretly tracks cell phone users outside US
The thing I found interesting is that the U.S. Office of Naval Research partly funded this.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:27 amNo doubt there’s already some racial vitriol on Obama. There was at least one nasty caller on Colmes last night. (Colmes was losing his voice, so he let his callers do even more talking than usual.)
Though I know these bigots are in the minority, I still cringe. There are so many good history texts out there, and for them to have read not a single one is disgusting.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am1. Freedom Rebel Says:
“The Obama camp, though anxious to pull the party together after a bitterly fought contest with Clinton, is hostile to the idea of having her on a joint ticket.”
Considering he wants Change and is willing to talk to anyone even enemies of the state to achieve that, if he does not give HRC something worth while he will be looked upon as the biggest hypocrite alive. Leaving the HRC dems out of the process because he tosses her under the buss and out of the loop will not go over well. If that does happen and HRC sits back during this election as a result he will be in bad shape going it alone.
He needs her to win this comfortably if at all so he better do something to make her happy. A week win will make him a week pres if he can get it.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:30 amthe kid would have gotten the medal of honor posthumously, but it would have been well deserved. kind of like when the German generals tried to take out Hitler.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:34 amIran, Turkey coordinate airstrikes against Kurds.
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20080605/ ap_on_re_mi_ea/ turkey_iran_kurds;_ylt=AsHKnXBD1dOH7hr.Tf27Hzy9IxIF
Can someone please explain to me where these airstrikes fall on bush’s binary “for us or against us” scale?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:47 amIt looks like Bushie is bumping naughties with the cadet. That can’t be good for the ‘manly’ image.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:51 amWe’ve had the dancing President and the tap-dancing President and now we have the ‘teammate securing a touchdown’ President. He’s been SUCH a model of decorum of the office, hasn’t he?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:53 amThe 100th poster this morning wins a free bed & breakfast at Crawford, TX. over the weekend!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:54 amIs there any footage of the Idiot In Chief doing that apparent chest-bump in the photo above? I can’t even believe as glib and deluded as Bush is that this type of thing could have happened.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:54 amCould I get humble pie on the side this morning, W?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:55 amchomot Says
June 5th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Considering he wants Change and is willing to talk to anyone even enemies of the state to achieve that, if he does not give HRC something worth while he will be looked upon as the biggest hypocrite alive. Leaving the HRC dems out of the process because he tosses her under the buss and out of the loop will not go over well. If that does happen and HRC sits back during this election as a result he will be in bad shape going it alone.
He needs her to win this comfortably if at all so he better do something to make her happy. A week win will make him a week pres if he can get it.
_________________________________________
First, I doubt he will be looked at as a hypocrite for not giving Clinton the sun, moon, and the stars. Hillary Clinton is not the same as Iran or North Korea — unless she decides to act as a threat to Obama’s campaign, and I think she knows better. And even if she was, Obama would work with her rather than risk conflagration — just as he would with a hostile country.
Clinton has earned a significant profile at the Democratic convention (similar to what Ted Kennedy got in 1980, Reagan got in 1976, and even Pat Buchanan got in 1992). She has earned the right for her issues to be strongly considered for the party platform. He doesn’t owe her the veep slot, a cabinet position, or anything else. (He may offer her a cabinet position or some other exec branch position that would permit her to work on her pet issues he supports, but she may prefer to stay in her role as a Senator.)
Second, I trust Obama to do what is necessary not only for party unity, but for country unity. He will meet with Hillary, and I’m sure they can work out a deal they can both live with.
Third, I don’t see Obama “throwing Hillary under the bus” since there is no bus to throw her under (um… you DO know what that phrase means?).
And last, I disagree with your point about a weak win making for a weak president. Both of Dubya’s victories were absolute squeakers, but this didn’t stop him and his merry band from amassing power the likes of which our country has rarely seen. In fact, MOST recent presidential elections have been decided with a margin of less than 10% in the popular vote. You have to go all the way back to 1984 (almost a quarter of a century ago) to find a presidential election (Reagan vs. Mondale) where the winner was decided by a landslide.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:55 amHaving Bush at the Institute of Peace would be like having Hitler dedicating a memorial to the victims of the Holocaust.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:57 amZimzone Says
June 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
The 100th poster this morning wins a free bed & breakfast at Crawford, TX. over the weekend!
_________________________________________
Yeah, but part of that package includes having to clear brush with Dubya.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:58 am““He’s not really in it,” Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) says of his colleague, Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO). “Bond, he’s just complicating things.” Bond said the White House has “assured him that it was not negotiating behind his back.”
Kit, Kit, Kit. Do ye think they’d betray you? Those stalwart leaders who are so highly principled?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:00 amJeebutz.
lol, misshusseingmolly.
I grew up in Northern MN cutting wood each Fall for the Winter. I’m very good with a chainsaw, so W better keep his distance!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:08 amWant to bet
June 5th, 2008 at 11:15 ambushbaby will not have a respectable, presidential photo taken of him before his sorry arse is gone?
WTF is that picture? Is that his idea of dignity and honor.
Friggn nuts, I tell ya.
take care
tony and guidedog Lido
G’morning, all.
Great posts, as usual. ;o)
June 5th, 2008 at 11:22 amA week win will make him a week president? I’m sorry, but presidents are elected on one day and are president for four years.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:22 am#93 leftcoast Says:
—-
Freedom Rebel Says:
Study secretly tracks cell phone users outside US
The thing I found interesting is that the U.S. Office of Naval Research partly funded this.
And the fact they did it outside the US, so that it wasn’t illegal, is the part that scared me the most. They both tie together someway.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:16 pm#95 chomot Says:
1. Freedom Rebel Says:
“The Obama camp, though anxious to pull the party together after a bitterly fought contest with Clinton, is hostile to the idea of having her on a joint ticket.”
Considering he wants Change and is willing to talk to anyone even enemies of the state to achieve that, if he does not give HRC something worth while he will be looked upon as the biggest hypocrite alive. Leaving the HRC dems out of the process because he tosses her under the buss and out of the loop will not go over well. If that does happen and HRC sits back during this election as a result he will be in bad shape going it alone.
He needs her to win this comfortably if at all so he better do something to make her happy. A week win will make him a week pres if he can get it.
I understand your point, but I think one of the reasons he formed the three person community to pick potential VP’s is to take the heat off of him for the moment. Also, to give everyone a chance to calm their emotions down.
It is a great idea for Caroline Kennedy, Jim Johnson and Eric Holder to come up with the names for potential candidates. I think she would be better served in a cabinet position of Secretary of Health and Human Services. Since Hillary’s strong suit is Health care reform. Maybe, that is what he would like to propose to her, we will all have to wait and see.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pmI agree, use her stong point. He should give HRC the health care project and let her run with it, she can do that very well and in reality the pretty much agree on how it should turn out. She would save face, he would have not have that hassele to deal with and everyone wins.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:03 pmThird, I don’t see Obama “throwing Hillary under the bus” since there is no bus to throw her under (um… you DO know what that phrase means?).
Yes,
“To throw someone under the bus” is defined as meaning “to sacrifice; to treat as a scapegoat; to betray,” but I think the key to the phrase really lies in the element of utter betrayal, the sudden, brutal sacrifice of a stalwart and loyal teammate for a temporary and often minor advantage. There is no retirement dinner, no gold watch, for poor schmuck “thrown under the bus.” On the contrary, the scapegoat’s name is liable to disappear from the website overnight.
Just because they competed for the prize does not elimiate the fact they are both on team democrat.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:12 pmIf you want to read why O needs to keep HRC happy.
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/ crystalball/ article.php?id=JMS2008060501
June 5th, 2008 at 9:07 pm