Comments on: McCain Endorses Bush’s Illegal Wiretapping Program, Despite Saying President Should Not ‘Disobey Any Law’

By: Max-1

Max-1 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:34:14 +0000

Why does rogers hate American Freedoms so, that he supports their usurpation?

Why is rogers so willing to give up defining qualities to what it means to BE an American?

On what grounds can rogers call himself an American if he is so willing to divest himself from the very fabric his America was cut from?

Is rogers a Loyalist or a Patriot?

Patriots come in all shades of Blue, Red, White, Black, Brown, Yellow… Loyalists only bleed red.

By: upside99

upside99 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:24:23 +0000

I wonder how roger_roger would react if it was BushCo coming after all his unregistered guns?

By: MCMetal

MCMetal — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:52:32 +0000

rogers Says:
——————————————————————————–

belac Says:

Well, FISA was created for the same reason as what bush does… if you don’t like what he does, or think its wrong, get rid of it…or accept its nessesary.

June 6th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

FISA wasn’t created to illegally spy on Americans without a warrant , you Chimpy apologist stooge…….

By: MCMetal

MCMetal — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:50:56 +0000

McCain believes that the Constitution gave President Bush the authority to wiretap Americans “without warrants,” bringing him “into closer alignment” with the Bush administration’s views of executive power

I don’t need a shitty pilot who is an adulterer , full of crap , and is a pandering old skid mark to try and decipher the Constitution for me………….

BTW

I also finished 5th in my class ; but it wasn’t the bottom end of the totem pole

By: belac

belac — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:42:18 +0000

rogers sez:
Well, FISA was created for the same reason as what bush does…

For the first time on this thread, you are absolutely right… FISA and the Warrantless Wiretapping the NSA is doing were created for the same reason and they accomplish the same thing, that’s what we’ve been saying all along, except one is legal and has safeguards and oversight to prevent misuse and the other doesn’t…

By: belac

belac — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:33:46 +0000

I’m trying to get rid of it… I’ve been working as hard as I can for the last seven years to rid our government of Bush’s insanity and fighting people like you the whole time…
FISA is legal.
‘IT’ is illegal, what don’t you understand?

By: hellinabucket

hellinabucket — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:21:11 +0000

It’s truly sad to see McCain sell out time and time again. I had always thought he got a raw deal running against GWB in South Carolina and if any republican would see an opportunity to break from this current administration it would have been the “Maverick”.

He’s now an insult to that monicker. More like LapDog.

By: belac

belac — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:20:42 +0000

Rogers sez:
No, it doesn’t give up any 4th amend. protection because it requires a WARRANT. Therein lies the difference…
If you wanna argue that the FISA court is TOO secretive and should be open to more scrutiny that’s another discussion.
I happen to think that it’s a reasonable compromise that affords ample protection while also giving law enforcement the tools they need.
But what we’re discussing is the concept that the executive branch can unilaterally declare that oversight too constrictive and bring into being a new law merely by wishing it so.
That is illegal, unconstitutional, and wrong. That’s why McCain is wrong to back it and why Bush is wrong to suggest it…
you are wrong when you start your ‘all evil is equal and all is therefore allowed’ rant again- it ain’t so, one is legal if secretive- the other is illegal, stupid and evil and leads us down the path to despotism.

By: pistolpackinliberal

pistolpackinliberal — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:11:30 +0000

Actually McSame may prove to be the best friend short wave radio and purveyors of spread-spectrum sat phones ever had!Not to worry,it has always been easier to disrupt communications and encrypt same than to protect and monitor!

By: Max-1

Max-1 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:51:05 +0000

StratRat says:
Both are wonderfully self-contained documents. If they are left alone – and followed – this would be the country it was meant to be. The founding fathers did a pretty good job creating this nation. Why does the right side hate the founding fathers and the documents they created?

Strat,
It isn’t JUST Republicans. Please, let’s not feed the notion that it’s JUST republicans that lead to this mess. There are several Democrats that support and tolerate this behavior. Perpetuating the myth of it ONLY being republicans does just that, perpetuates the problem as it gives cover for the Democrats that seek to undermine American Principles because the myth says only republicans do it.

America is cursed with a Body of Congress Elites that seek to gain superior power over the People. THEY(sic) hate those FREEDOM granted to the People, this is why they can argue and debate the merits to undermining those FREEDOMS, and attempt to legislate away those FREEDOMS.

By: belac

belac — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:51:00 +0000

But it’s a legal process with SOME oversight… do you understand the difference, rogers.
One is legal, the other is illegal.
It’s black and white, your favorite kind of issue.

By: gummitch

gummitch — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:47:30 +0000

StratRat Says:

Why don’t you actually read about an issue before wasting our time by posting ignorant crap?

It is really frustrating the trolls don’t care more about the laws and the abuse of those laws.

Most of the trolls are here either for attention or as apologists for Bush and the neocons. Stopping to think about something like the Constitution would just get in the way of a quick, meaningless response.

By: belac

belac — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:40:46 +0000

FISA is legal, the warrantless wiretapping is not…

By: StratRat

StratRat — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:40:21 +0000

Why don’t you actually read about an issue before wasting our time by posting ignorant crap?

It is really frustrating the trolls don’t care more about the laws and the abuse of those laws. Any American should be aware of governmental over-reach and how that over-reach will splinter the fabric of our nation. The issues we face about spying and the like affect EVERY American – not just Rep or Dem. Is the loyalty to the right side ideaology trump what is good for the nation? I appears so.

By: Wayne

Wayne — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:35:58 +0000

rogers Says:

No, bush has only ammended FISA with the patriot act, and protect america act…

No Bush ignored FISA and started wholesale tapping with no warrants, that is what the problem is.

Why don’t you actually read about an issue before wasting our time by posting ignorant crap?

By: StratRat

StratRat — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:33:31 +0000

Yes, then all the white males would be happy with they’re constitutionally protected rights.who are you kidding?.

This thread has to do with illegal spying and abuse of office. My references to those great documents where in response to the topic of this thread. Is that hard to follow; or do you typically project your own wishes onto others?

By: Paul W

Paul W — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:28:26 +0000

It’s hard to say what McCain stands for anymore. As Savage points out he’s flip-flopped on telecom amnesty and warrantless spying on Americans, he once denounced the religious right’s influence on American politics and then sought the endorsment of Hagee and he’s denounced signing statements but was completely silent when about Bush’s signing statement regarding the his own ‘torture’ bill, not that it made any difference, the watered down bill had already excluded the CIA from complying with it anyway.

The notion that McCain is a maverick who will stand up to his party is nothing more than a myth fostered by an unquestioning media that’s absolutely in love with this man.

http://progressiveworldreview.com

By: robbez_92107

robbez_92107 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:26:38 +0000

Oval12345678 aka James K. Sayre Says:

My friends, how old is John McCain? He is so old that he remembers hunting saber-toothed tigers when he was a boy…

Buckie, I think you have a request: One order of saber-toothed tigers and peanut butter and rocks sandwuches on table 8.

By: belac

belac — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:23:37 +0000

He’s says he’s amended FISA- but that’s not what constitutional lawyers think- and that’s what this thread is about, just ’cause the President says, ‘I change this law!’ don’t mean it’s so… FISA doesn’t need amending- it works fine, unless you want to abuse the wiretaps illegally… that’s what we’re talking about here.

By: StratRat

StratRat — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:21:48 +0000

Max-1 Says:

Correct StratRat,
It is the Bill of Rights contained within the Constitution that provide me the tools for my protection and securities.

Both are wonderfully self-contained documents. If they are left alone – and followed – this would be the country it was meant to be. The founding fathers did a pretty good job creating this nation. Why does the right side hate the founding fathers and the documents they created?