Medal Of Honor Recipient’s Father: Bush Must Sign The GI Bill If He Wants To Show Appreciation For Troops
Medal Of Honor Recipient’s Father: Bush Must Sign The GI Bill If He Wants To Show Appreciation For Troops
Last week, President Bush presented Tom and Romayne McGinnis with a posthumous Medal of Honor for their son, Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis. Ross was killed in Iraq in December 2004 when he threw his body in front of a grenade to protect four of his fellow soldiers, saving their lives. Bush praised Ross’s heroism, and pledged to “never forget” the soldiers “who came forward to bear the battle” for “freedom and security” in Iraq:
The day will come when the mission he served has been completed and the fighting is over, and freedom and security have prevailed. America will never forget those who came forward to bear the battle. America will always honor the name of this brave soldier who gave all for his country, and was taken to rest at age 19.
Ross’s father, Tom McGinnis, is holding Bush to his word. The next day, McGinnis called on Bush to sign the 21st Century GI bill, while speaking at the Pentagon’s Hall of Heroes induction:
Our troops when they get home also need our support. … They need to be able to continue their education where they left off. And so I say thank you to the Senate and House who have helped to pass the new GI bill. Now this GI bill only needs the signature of the President of the United States to become law. And I think it’s time that George Bush can sign this bill and make it law to show his appreciation for the support these loyal youth have given him.
Watch it:
McGinnis told the Army Times that he felt he had to seize the opportunity to speak out about the bill while in Washington: “If I didn’t do it when I was down there at the Pentagon or the White House, one of the two, when will I ever have the chance to make an impact?”
Both Bush and the Pentagon oppose Webb’s GI bill. A Pentagon spokesman said it was inappropriate to award educational benefits “after only” two years of service. Opponents of the bill misleadingly cite a Congressional Budget Office report to claim that the bill would harm retention rates, ignoring the report’s finding that the bill would encourage 30,000 new recruits every year.
In threatening to veto the bill, Bush is ignoring the substantial majority of both houses of Congress, along with an overwhelming majority of American citizens. Will Bush also ignore the father of one of America’s greatest heroes?
Transcript:
I want to appreciate, I want you to know that we appreciate all memorials, the gifts, the special attention that we’ve been given since Ross died. It has helped enormously with our grief process. But I feel there is somebody else out there that’s much more important than Romayne and I, and that’s the troops that are still active. Most of these men and women are very young, they’re a long ways from home, they’re afraid sometimes of the things they’re going to be called on to do, and so they need our support. They need to know that what they’re doing is appreciated by the people back home. They all experience home sickness. They miss the comforts that they’ve had, that they’ve given up, to do what they have to do. So I think it’s important that we show them our appreciation by sending them gifts, letters, and things like that that would remind them that they are appreciated and that they will be welcomed when they come home.
We’ve had the support of hundreds and hundreds of people — family, friends, and strangers that have helped us deal with what we had to go through. And this is a good thing. But our troops when they get home also need our support. They put their lives on the line for us, sometimes for four years, sometimes for two years, sometimes for 20 years. But when they get home, they also need our support. And many of these people were very young when they left home, they put aside their education and went into the service because it’s young people that make up the active army and really do the fighting for us. So we owe them an ability to be able to return home and become a productive part of their society. They need to be able to continue their education where they left off. And so I say thank you to the Senate and House who have helped to pass the new GI bill. Now this GI bill only needs the signature of the President of the United States to become law. And I think it’s time that George Bush can sign this bill and make it law to show his appreciation for the support these loyal youth have given him.
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In threatening to veto the bill, Bush is ignoring the substantial majority of both houses of Congress, along with an overwhelming majority of American citizens. Will Bush also ignore the father of one of America’s greatest heroes?
Frankly, I’d be more surprised if he didn’t.
Bush lives by Bush-rules. And Bush-rules allow him to ignore reality.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:20 pmwith overwhelming support in both chambers on Capital Hill, can you say ‘override’?
June 9th, 2008 at 12:21 pmBush doesn’t care. Never has. Never will.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:21 pmPresident Bush presented Tom and Romayne McGinnis with a posthumous Medal of Honor for their son, Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis.
Was a bit like watching Hitler give a metal of courage award to a Jewish person.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:22 pmHA! HA!
Lots of luck with that, we all know after 7 1/2 years and a Vietnam AWOL effort, that Dubya could give a flying fook about the troops, our country and, sadly, about this poor man’s son.
And Johnny Boy is same song, second verse.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:23 pmLet’s not forget that McPastey didn’t support the bill, either.
‘Hurt retention’, my American ass.
McCain gets more a year in disability pay than many Americans earn, but opposes others getting fair GI benefits for actually fighting.
Losers, the lot of ‘em.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:25 pm…”A Pentagon spokesman said it was inappropriate to award educational benefits “after only” two years of service.”...
I wonder what the qualifying period is for new federal employees, other than military enlistees, to receive education benefits.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:26 pmStart with a genuine, indepth audit of the no-bid Halliburton, KBR and Blackwater cost-plus contracts, and the fraud perpetuated on the American people? I’m sure there is more than enough money to be recouped to pay for these educational benefits and much, much more.
Take some money out of those deep pockets and put that money where your mouth is, Mister Deciderer.
PEACE
June 9th, 2008 at 12:27 pmPoor Mr. McGinnis already pushed all in and showed his cards a dead son at the age of 19. in Bush’s Texan hold-um in Iraq as long as possible game of chance Send some of Bush’s family and you might get his attention
June 9th, 2008 at 12:28 pm“Both Bush and the Pentagon oppose Webb’s GI bill”
So does McCain.
–>> Hey, TP, I feel like I’m mowing your lawn…
June 9th, 2008 at 12:28 pmThe main reason this criminal administration is wasting all of the treasury on tax cuts for the rich and endless wars IS to bankrupt any and all social programs - that includes those for veterans.
So, this is not surprising.
_AIO_
June 9th, 2008 at 12:31 pmWhy do W and McSame hate the troops?
June 9th, 2008 at 12:41 pmIn threatening to veto the bill, Bush is ignoring the substantial majority of both houses of Congress, along with an overwhelming majority of American citizens
“So?”
June 9th, 2008 at 12:41 pm-Dick Cheney
PNAC
Bilderberg Group
NeoCon
Tri-lateral commission
Council on Foreign Relations
These are a few of my favorite talking point items that no one ever talks about. Why is that?
America could let another 40,000 troops die in the desert and not one NeoCon would object. Maybe it’s genetic. I, for one, am proud to NOT be a NeoCon, am proud to support equality, diversity and Justice.
This man sacrificed his 19 yr. old Son, fog God’s sake! Now, watch our media pretend it never happened, or ‘other news’ of the day didn’t allow us to run this story.
Obama, they’re giving you campaign material on a silver platter; you’d be wise to use it immediately, given the short attention span of American citizenry.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pmBush does not care about that boy, and he will veto the bill.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:48 pmWhat medal of Dubya’s are you talking about?
June 9th, 2008 at 12:50 pmdesserters! lol!
June 9th, 2008 at 12:50 pmDo people still enlist? Isn’t it the same group of folks fighting repeated tours over there? I know they lowered standards. But still.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:53 pmPoor, poor rogerroger, that sonofab!tch. Is a “desserter” a waiter who serves pie? Or would that be the baker?
If you’re referring to “deserters” then I guess you’re once again a champion of the deserter-in-chief, your AWOL dry-drunk hero.
Why can’t I just ignore this fool?
PEACE
June 9th, 2008 at 12:53 pmrogers Says
June 9th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
and to think so many think cowardly war desserters deserve a medal…
______________________________
HUH??
June 9th, 2008 at 12:55 pmTo paraphrase misshusseinmolly: WTF?
June 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pmWho was it who said that we really don’t need to give our fighting men and women anything because, after all, they’re volunteers?
Whoever it was is probably now saying something along the lines of “hey, we give them shiny medals — what more do they want?”
June 9th, 2008 at 12:58 pmrogers Says: Maybe if more people fought like they contracted too..they just hide behind politics.
My brother served in the Gulf War in the Army. I can assure you that he did not join the military with the intent of invading a sovereign nation and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people for George Bush’s oil war. That wasn’t in his contract.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pmNo, I just want to know howw soemone that dies winning the MoH can be a “desserter”? That REALLY deserves an explanation!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:00 pmGuido the Loving OBGYN Says: Do people still enlist? Isn’t it the same group of folks fighting repeated tours over there? I know they lowered standards. But still.
Sadly, with the economy what it is, the military is the last option for many poor and young people from rural areas.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:01 pmAppreciation for who? what? The troops? Ahh the troops! But, wait! The rich need to get richer so screw the troops! I never imagined being ashamed of this country and what it stands for. This entire nation is drenched in SHAME! The IDIOT’S LEGACY OF SHAME hangs over this country like a black cloud.
The worrisome condition of an IDIOT RULER and his wicked nation laid out for the world to see!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:04 pmSo what are the contractual terms? Anyone?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:05 pmIf you are referring to me, Roger_Roger, I served a combat tour in Vietnam, through my medals over the WH fence and am a member of VVAW, VVoA and VV Against McCain. How many tours have you served, Ace?
Am I a “cowardly deserter”? Are you?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:05 pmrogers Says:
——————————————————————————–
But you agree NOT fighting in iraq makes you a cowardly deserter?.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
What’s wrong with you? Do you have a diagnosis?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:06 pmOops, that should have been “threw” in #32. My Bad.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:06 pmrogers Says:
upside99 Says:
nevermind…went over your head.
Perhaps coupling a cogent thought with a rudimentary knowledge of the English language, with a third grader’s spell-check thrown in for good measure, would allow you to at least make a point, regardless of how wrong you continue to be with your posts.
PEACE
June 9th, 2008 at 1:06 pmNow, if the money from the GI Bill were being handed over to the already filthy rich people of this country, or to say, his uncle dick’s military or big oil friends, georgie wouldn’t be able to find his pen fast enough to sign it.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pmupside99 Says:
No, I just want to know howw soemone that dies winning the MoH can be a “desserter”? That REALLY deserves an explanation!
The troll seems to think that getting killed is a cop-out from their contractual agreement.
Oh, wait, I used the word “think”.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:09 pmZooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
rogers Says:
——————————————————————————–
But you agree NOT fighting in iraq makes you a cowardly deserter?.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
What’s wrong with you? Do you have a diagnosis?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Debilitating ignorance and stupidity ; a defective gene , commonly found in all GOP backers………
June 9th, 2008 at 1:09 pmNo, I don’t get it. I DID serve, just not in this illegal occupation. Get it? When did you do your tour?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pmrogers Says:
——————————————————————————–
upside99 Says:
Your a deserter by first agreeing to serve…and at that point not doing so is “desertion”.Get it?.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Yeah
Just use the unintelligible moron in the Oval Office whom you adore as that example , seeing as how it is so applicable………..
June 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pmHe won’t sign it, and it will become the most saddest best thing that ever happened.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:11 pmHey, R2, WTF does desertion have to do with a MoH winner’s father wanting a decent GI Bill, anyway?
What drug are you on…. or not on, as the case may be?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pmDid Cheney tell him to go fu(k himself?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:17 pmZoo, is it me or is R2 even more addled than before? He hasn’r put a cogent thought out all day today, nor answered my questions.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:17 pmI’ll give a donut to ever can figure out what the troop hating rogers is saying.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:18 pmYes, troop hater, who thinks post-traumatic is just pop psychology.
You make yourself dumber with every post, roger old boy
take care
tony and guidedog Lido
upside99 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Zoo, is it me or is R2 even more addled than before? He hasn’r put a cogent thought out all day today, nor answered my questions.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I think R2 is on the meth again. Meth on top of stupid is tragic.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:19 pmto who ever…..
June 9th, 2008 at 1:19 pmWith the fear of further confusing you, AGAIN>>>>>WTF does this have to do with a dead hero and the new GI Bill?
Inquiring minds here really want to know!!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:21 pmZoo, that, indeed, is one dangerous cocktail!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pmrogers Says:
——————————————————————————–
upside99 Says:
So all deserters of iraq are bad, right?.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Not nearly as bad as those who planned , lied and ordered them to illegally invade and occupy a sovereign nation who had never threatened nor attacked us………..
June 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pmZooey Says:
I think R2 is on the meth again. Meth on top of stupid is tragic.
Zooey, how right you are! We need only look to the White House to see what cocaine and booze on top of stupid leads to…
PEACE
June 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pmHere’s an idea; YOU answer MY question about the relevancy of your question to this thread, and I will take yours under advisement.
And, besides, what does your question have to do with the price of bananas in Paraguay?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:27 pmThat poor, poor man…is he truly expecting Herr Decidenfurher to actually support the troops…?
I’m sad for him.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:29 pmThis shows the ultimate lack of respect to our veterans. It is cynical in the extreme to create a system holding out the hope of educational benefits that really will not provide the means of getting ahead that has always attracted many to the military. Essentially, the president and McCain take the position that military benefits will only help those who make the military a career. There is little ability to become a vital part of the civilian economy if you have to spend six to twelve years in the military before you even qualify for any educational benefits. We have already seen the drop in recruit qualifications as we try to attract new people into the military.
Many are beginning to realize that military service is a sucker’s bet. You will be stop lossed, sent through multiple tours and otherwise worn down. The military has increasingly become the employer of last resort. How many truly gifted Republicans do you see volunteering for the service? They see how KBR, Blackwater and others pay former military so much more than active duty members taking far greater risks. One would think that you would want to recruit the best and the brightest by offering realistic educational benefits.
The Republican elite do not want to see our soldiers get ahead as they did after WWII. The Republicans consider them to be nothing by cannon fodder.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:35 pmOK, we are getting closer but I still don’t get the relevancy of that question to the thread. Where did ANY discussion of desertion come from in the article?
But since you are OT anyway, here is one for you: Is Dubya deserving of any government pay being a deserter during Vietnam?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:35 pmI respect the sacrifice of Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis and his family.
Why compromise that sacrifice for political ends?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:42 pmrogers Says:
upside99 Says:
I don’t understand why you can’t answer the question anyway…
Because you are posting nonsense, fool.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:45 pmOur troops when they get home also need our support. … They need to be able to continue their education where they left off. And so I say thank you to the Senate and House who have helped to pass the new GI bill. Now this GI bill only needs the signature of the President of the United States to become law. And I think it’s time that George Bush can sign this bill and make it law to show his appreciation for the support these loyal youth have given him.
BS only goes so far and so does jingoistic patriotism. Military families are fed up with Bush’s war. They know when they’ve been had.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 9th, 2008 at 1:53 pmbackup Says:
——————————————————————————–
I respect the sacrifice of Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis and his family.
Why compromise that sacrifice for political ends?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
This young man’s father has a right to speak on this issue. His son paid the ultimate price, but those fortunate enough to survive these wars need someone to speak for them. I don’t see you doing it.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:58 pmrogers Says:
I know you just wouldn’t answer either way…you just can’t say it, can you?.
Why would he respond to your moronic question, that has nothing at all to do with the subject at hand, and which you have provided zero evidence to substantiate?
Please seek professional help.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:01 pmGummitch, I tried, I really did, but R2 can not follow a logic trail. Sigh!
June 9th, 2008 at 2:05 pmwhat unrelated nonquestion bait is rogers seeking someone to bite on? I sort of skipped over most of this
June 9th, 2008 at 2:08 pmdbadass,
somewhere in that twisted logic, there is a relationship between a dead MoH recipient, the new GI Bill and deserters. But no explanation, no repsonse, no matter how many ways we ask for some relevancy.
(Must have been a major chemically-fueled weekend for R2.)
June 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pmWell I have said it publically before and unless he proves me wrong, rogers makes little sense, spells and constructs poorly but is absurdly tenacious. Odd as it may be you have got to respect the last part
June 9th, 2008 at 2:19 pmSince I never said I was in support of desertion (Which STILL is not part of this thread), how can I be a ‘hypocrit’?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:20 pmdbadass,
And R2 is all the republics have today.
How sad their world has become!
June 9th, 2008 at 2:21 pmWow, rogers figured out how to spell deserters. Now, who said anything about the GI bill covering deserters R2?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:24 pmrogers Says:
your not denying thats your answer…so you are a hypocrit.
You’re not denying that you’re an idiot, either, and proving that you are with every comment.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pmPlease rogers, when you go back to the 7th grade this fall please concentrate in your language arts class so we can figure out what exactly you’re trying to say a little quicker.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pmOk, rogers needs to be gone.
Commence flagging.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pmMore bilge backup:
backup Says:
I respect the sacrifice of Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis and his family.
Why compromise that sacrifice for political ends?
No, you don’t respect his sacrifice if you had to ask that morally bankrupt question. You have squandered the right to speak, by supporting a president that has done nothing but compromise our troops sacrifice for political ends for eight years. Go back to school, child, and don’t speak until you’ve gained some true insight.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:43 pmKeeping your populace illiterate so better to control them is not a new trick. It was utilized in the middle ages by both statesmen and the church.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:11 pmWonderful speech. Thank you Mr. McGinnis. Thank you for the speech and for your son’s ultimate sacrifice to our country we are all in his debt.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:09 pmRoss McGinnis is a hero if there ever was one. I’m humbled by what this young man did. Astonishing selflessness!
Anyway, as I understand, Bush objects to the part where the GI bill money is not dispensed progressively wrt how long a GI has served. That seems logical to be eligible for more money/benefits if you served longer. However, I doubt we’ll ever have a perfect GI bill from this congress and so let’s all hope GW signs this one.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:12 pmay, why do you guys waste your precious energies explaining anything at all to someone like rogers, who’s brain is a hollow chasm?
June 9th, 2008 at 4:14 pmI think he has more senior moments than Mr. Buffalo farts, Dubya and McDumb put together.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:16 pmWhy compromise that sacrifice for political ends?
you mean to tell me that he wouldn’t be doing this for the memory of his son and knowing his son would have probably wished it being that he cared so musch for his fellow soliers?
you idiot!
June 9th, 2008 at 4:20 pmsorry, much- #88
June 9th, 2008 at 4:20 pmbackup Says:
I respect the sacrifice of Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis and his family.
Why compromise that sacrifice for political ends?
####
Agreed. Mr. McGinnis wants the president to sign the GI BIll for the good of the troops. 76 Senators feel the same way. President Bush should not comprimise PFC McGinnis’s sacrifice by issuing a veto and failing to support our troops.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:20 pmHere’s Tom McGinnis’s full remarks:
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=ew29oab1MD0&feature=user
The transcript and video were cut after about minute 39. Around minute 40, Mr McGinnis remarks that he is aware that there may be a ‘better’ GI bill in the works. But, it didn’t have support of the congress and “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.”
View minutes 39 to 41. I believe what Mister McGinnis is saying that even though the other GI bill under consideration may be better, we should go with the one that has support in the Congress.
Is that how we should govern? Not the best bill for veterans, but the one that enjoys bipartisan support?
Why were these final remarks omitted and why should we support an inferior bill, just because the congress supports it?
June 9th, 2008 at 4:21 pmbackup Says:
Is that how we should govern? Not the best bill for veterans, but the one that enjoys bipartisan support?
####
The Webb GI Bill is the top priority of the VFW, the American Legion, VoteVets, and several other veterans groups. It received 75 votes in the Sebate for a reason. Both of it’s original founders (Hagel and Webb) are veterans with close ties to veterans organizations. Also, Webb’s son is an OIF veteran. The list of people who oppose the Webb GI BIll could be counted on one hand, but Bush and McCain are at the top. If you believe that McCain’s GI Bill is better, you might want to explain that to groups like Disabled American Veterans, VV, VFP, and about a dozen other veterans groups that disagree with you.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:27 pmIs that how we should govern? Not the best bill for veterans, but the one that enjoys bipartisan support?
Why were these final remarks omitted and why should we support an inferior bill, just because the congress supports it?
As I just said, you have no right to ask these questions, after being silent for eight years. Your credibility is shot, and you’ve squandered the right to ask such questions. You should just remain silent, and let others fix the mess your political myopia has caused.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:36 pmall,
June 9th, 2008 at 4:42 pmrogers is gone.
barfly. you sound more and more like the ‘Decider’ every day.
But, I’m sure your brand of repression will be much more enlightened to the repression you claim of conservatives.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:44 pmOff topic - I apologize -
I just wanted to post this link for anyone who might be in Oklahoma:
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1415
June 9th, 2008 at 4:45 pmWhy were these final remarks omitted and why should we support an inferior bill, just because the congress supports it?
June 9th, 2008 at 4:45 pmOf course “backup” has every right to ask questions, regardless of his opinions. He actually brings up a good point imo. GI’s deserve the best bill, but clearly congress is not known for coming up with perfect solutions.
Regarding rights to ask questions.. Heros like Ross McGinnis gave everything to ensure “backup” can voice his opinion. You don’t have to agree but he absolutely has every right to ask.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:45 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=ew29oab1MD0&feature=user
minutes 39-41.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:46 pmObamna NEEDS to recruit this guy..have him pop up in the crowd in one of john mccains “town hall meetings” then appear in commericals..
June 9th, 2008 at 4:49 pmbackup Says:
——————————————————————————–
Why were these final remarks omitted and why should we support an inferior bill, just because the congress supports it?
###
I cannot answer the question of why these remarks were omitted - I don’t know. Only a TP admin can answer that. However, the Webb GI Bill is not inferior in any way. It provides numerous benefits that McCain’s does not, which is why literally every veterans organization out there supports the Webb GI Bill. I have been to congress, met with senators and representatives personally concerning this bill. I have sat down with Hagel himself, and with Webb’s legislative aid to discuss all of the various ramifications and differences within this bill. At the same time I was there, representatives from DAV and VFW were there as well for the same reason. The Webb GI Bill is the best for our troops, has the support of our troops and veterans, and the support of 76 Senators. We are working on number 77 - one who originally co-sponsored, then removed his name, and may add it again.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:52 pmgunclinger. This is a very progressive view. I don’t claim to be right. And we can disagree on the Webb bill.
But, I think we can agree that Ross McGinnis is a true hero. And it was sacrifices like his that have ensured our right to freely express our opinions.
I support promoting veteran’s issues. Republican’s have not been the best stewards of veteran’s issues in the past or lately.
But, I am concerned the Webb bill is being used to force a premature withdrawal in Iraq by inducing heavy short term military separations.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:52 pmChris. it sounds like you’ve done alot of research.
I think I have only one major reservation:
Does the claim that the Webb bill will cause short term staffing problems hold any water?
If it doesn’t, what objections do opponents of the bill give for there resistance?
June 9th, 2008 at 4:55 pmbackup,
June 9th, 2008 at 4:58 pmRemember the differences between there, they’re and their!
backup Says:
But, I am concerned the Webb bill is being used to force a premature withdrawal in Iraq by inducing heavy short term military separations.
####
Actually, the one does not have anything to do with the other. For one, the inability to afford college should not be the reason our troops re-enlist. However, more than 80,000 troops are under stop-loss orders anyway, so ETS’ing is out of the question anyway. For those who are near their ETS date, and not under stop-loss, the biggest obstacle to retention is civilian contractors. Our troops know they can continue to do the jobs they love, with better equipment,and 5 times the pay, if they work for a civilian contractor. That incentive, as well as multiple deployments with little to no rest between them, are the main reasons soldiers are not re-enlisting. Not just because they can’t afford college.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:58 pmbackup Says:
If it doesn’t, what objections do opponents of the bill give for there resistance?
###
The biggest concern I have heard is money. They are worried about where the money will come from, and how it will be used. Anytime I am talking to someone that I know is against the Webb GI Bill, I always frame theagument from a monetary standpoint - because I know that is their biggest concern. The Webb GI Bill would cost the same as 17 hours of operations in Iraq.
June 9th, 2008 at 5:01 pmChocolate Jesus. Sorry, off topic. You’ve got a great moniker (my personal favorite).
Is it a reference to a black Jesus (which is quite probably more historically accurate) or a ‘holiday’ chocolate Jesus (ie, like chocolate easter bunnies)?
June 9th, 2008 at 5:02 pmWalt. you got me. my spelling is horrible, two.
June 9th, 2008 at 5:03 pmChris, if it’s really about money, that shouldn’t be a concern in light of what veterans have done for us.
If it’s about short term staffing that impacts our ability to continue operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, I understand the reluctance of those that still support those efforts.
My impression was the difference in bills was that republican bills postponed the benefits to encourage veterans to stick around, but the benefits were as (or more) generous, in the long run. I could obviously be wrong. And the fact that most veterans groups seem to support the Webb Bill, is a very convincing argument.
June 9th, 2008 at 5:09 pmbackup,
June 9th, 2008 at 5:11 pmThe one I enjoyed the most is “I want to live with a Grizzly bare.”
backup said:
I respect the sacrifice of Private First Class Ross Andrew McGinnis and his family.
Why compromise that sacrifice for political ends?
Political ends? It’s all just a game to you isn’t it? This is about real lives and having something to show for the sacrifices they’ve made.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 9th, 2008 at 5:12 pmPaul W. come on. Tom McGinnis is using a ceremony honoring his son’s service to encourage Bush to sign Webb’s GI bill. I’m sorry, but that’s political. Even McGinnis understands it:
“I could talk about it to my friends all I want,” he said. “What good is that going to do? If I didn’t do it when I was down there at the Pentagon or the White House, one of the two, when will I ever have the chance to make an impact? I did what I felt was right, whether it was right or not.”
June 9th, 2008 at 5:22 pmbackup,
The point is this: politics isn’t just a game. The bill is important, it will have a very significant effect on peoples lives. McGinnins, more than most, understands the sacrifices soldiers and their families make and for you to dismiss him for just “playing politics” is wrong.
You cannot seperate the sacrifice his son made with the bill McGinnis wants to see signed.
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June 9th, 2008 at 5:48 pm>Is it a reference to a black Jesus
im the messiah that melts in your mouth..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11669242/
however, if anyone would be bothered by my being black, well, then i am :)
June 9th, 2008 at 6:20 pmBut, I’m sure your brand of repression will be much more enlightened to the repression you claim of conservatives.
I’m merely pointing out that you’ve had your chance at being relevant, but decided that hero-worship was more important. At some point, one’s past bad judgement disqualifies one from being taken seriously. And it disqualifies one from “showing concern,” when one is part of the problem. You ‘ve had years to attone for your past bad judgements, yet it is only now, when it looks like your kind will be defeated at the polls, and sent back to the political wilderness, do yopu come around with your phony “concern,” for the troops, andthe economy, and health care, and all the rest. Where were you, when it counted most? Waving your little flag, with your ears stoppered shut. You have lost the right to be considered a serious intellect, be supporting this crap, when it was evident to all but the politically myopic how damaging Bush was.
You can post all you want, but get used to me pointing out your total fraudulence.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:46 pmbackup:
My impression was the difference in bills was that republican bills postponed the benefits to encourage veterans to stick around, but the benefits were as (or more) generous, in the long run. I could obviously be wrong. And the fact that most veterans groups seem to support the Webb Bill, is a very convincing argument.
With your track record, it’s safe to assume you are. Why are you coming around acting like you care about the troops? You had plenty of time, but we hadn’t heard you say anything about this when the republicans were in power. Why do you think that you suddenly have the right to be concerned now, when you guys are about to be even more in the minority, for what has transpired these past seven years? Noe credibility.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:56 pmNice.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:16 pmPaul W. This is just wrong.
You can’t appreciate the sacrifice and still oppose the bill?
It’s not unlike:
You can’t oppose the war and still be patriotic?
June 9th, 2008 at 7:24 pmMcGinnis’s promotion of the GI bill is political. I’m not sure promoting a political view during a memorial ceremony is appropriate, no matter who’s doing it.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:26 pmThat’s kind of a “if you can’t attack the message, attack the messenger” tact.
If there’s an idea, it’s not really relevant who the messenger is. Wants important is, the idea.
If my ideas are irrelevant or wrong, they’ll be dismissed.
But, spending your time trying to disqualify the messenger instead of addressing the message makes it seem as though you don’t have an adequate response to the message.
Just saying.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:39 pmChris. You’re probably right about this and the Webb bill.
If it doesn’t make it more difficult to maintain staffing in the short run, and most veterans organization support it, Bush should sign it.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:04 pmbackup said:
You can’t appreciate the sacrifice and still oppose the bill?
This is a complete non sequitur. Nowhere did I say you have to support the bill for any reason. What I said was, To McGinnis, supporting the bill cannot be seperated from the sacrifice his son made.
You accused this man of playing politics to the disrespect of his son. That’s because, like I said before, to you it’s all a game and following the rules to the game is paramount. What you fail to understand is the lives that are affected are in fact paramount. McGinnis wasn’t disrespecting his son, he wasn’t exploiting his son’s death for political gain. He was supporting his son in the best way he knew how.
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June 10th, 2008 at 1:21 amPaul W. I agree with this. I think Tom McGinnis is probably a great guy who loves his son. Ross McGinnis is a hero. And if it has the support of most veteran’s groups, Bush should probably sign it.
That being said, I question using a memorial service for his son to promote a political aim. He also question the same thing if you consider his quote I posted:
whether it was right or not. McGinnis understood what he was doing. He understood he was using the occassion to promote Webb’s GI bill.
That doesn’t mean that he’s not a great guy grieving for his son, who’s a hero. Just that he knowingly used his son’s memorial service to promote the Webb bill. He understands it.
June 10th, 2008 at 9:31 am