A BBC investigation estimates that $23 billion “may have been lost, stolen or just not properly accounted for” in Iraq. But, reports the BBC, “a US gagging order is preventing discussion of the allegations.”
It’s OUR MONEY!!!!!! Why can’t WE know what happened to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would we be interested in $26B that found its way (through war profiteering) into the pockets of the friends and family of our executive branch? We only paid it into the government through taxes – it’s not like it’s really ours.
This money could NOT be used to improve the economy or bring down the price of oil – you need a magic wand for those things.
If they have nothing to hide, then they should welcome any inquiries. Since they have imposed a gag order and are stonewalling, one can not help but conclude they are trying to hide a whole rat’s nest of illegal shit.
And does anyone else find it sad that we seem to always get the real news about the US, not from our media, but from BBC? Remember the Downing Street memo?
Bush could care less about the taxpayer’s money, as long as it’s going to his buds. This kind of behavior exists on the blue side of the political aisle.
Now, let me get this straight, it’s somehow okay for known criminals to obstruct justice with EOs & gag orders ?!?
There’s something very wrong with this picture.
Now, let me get this straight, it’s somehow okay for known criminals to obstruct justice with EOs & gag orders ?!?
There’s something very wrong with this picture.
Welcome to Bush’s Amerikkka. Land of the greed, home of the depraved.
hmmm wondering what kind of united states gag order is legally binding to a UK company? we all know the Us doesnt beleive in international law so why is anyone outside a Us border afraid of speaking up?
spill it BBC. theres massive fraud in them thar hills, its our money, and SOMEBODY needs to talk about it..
just like the telecom spying, looks like we’ll need lawyers to get to the bottom of this.. got Qui Tam?
Congrats, Bush supporters.
Here is another of your legacy.
No accountability
No accountability
No accountabliity
Rinse
Repeat
Yep. It still amazes me that some citizens cannot see the things we see. If we have access to the same information, why are we fuming about it and they don’t seem to care? It’s their money too. Are they afraid of retaliation from the GOP or their neighbors? I don’t get their supprt of this obvious criminal enterprise.
Ask a taxpayer if they think that way; I doubt they would minimize the impact of embezzeling $3,000,000,000. I appreciate it is a small percentage, but that just underscores the vast cost of the illegal invasion and occupation. ITS OUR MONEY!!!!!!!WHERE IS IT????????
Yep. It still amazes me that some citizens cannot see the things we see. If we have access to the same information, why are we fuming about it and they don’t seem to care? It’s their money too. Are they afraid of retaliation from the GOP or their neighbors? I don’t get their supprt of this obvious criminal enterprise.
If you look closely at this, the Righties have been able to control the content of the media to make sure their base only gets the message they want them to hear. If Limpballs, Coultergeist, Nazis Beck and Savage weiner and Faux were gone, the 23%ers would be about 7%ers.
But there is too much money to be made for that to ever happen.
The nearly 5-year-old war, once billed as virtually paying for itself through increased Iraqi oil exports, has cost the U.S. Treasury $845 billion directly.
So $23b=about %3 lost.%3.
Rogers,
Thanx for reminding us all of the cost of the war but you left out the 4,000 dead and over 25,000 wounded, plus the ongoing costs over the next 50 years to care for all the veterans.
This is ridiculous! How can the War Criminal, the imbecil in chief, the TORTURER, have the power to gag investigation and inquire into his own crimes??????!!!!! The USA used to be a serious country…
Bush won’t sign the GI Bill which would cost about 2.5 billion per year but almost ten times that amount has been lost in Iraq. And that doesn’t even touch on the countless billions that have been wasted. Proving yet again that enriching their cronies at Haliburton is far more important than rewarding the poor souls who fight their wars for them.
32-
I agree! Great post! But it was also left out the number of dead iraqui civilians and the displaced population of Iraq. Not to mention the destrucion of that country and the dstruction of the US’s ecenomy!
And does anyone else find it sad that we seem to always get the real news about the US, not from our media, but from BBC? Remember the Downing Street memo?
Not to mention this little gem about McCain and his first wife:
WHEN is someone going to look at Bush and Cheney’s bank accounts? Especially the ones over in the Caymans? No? Maybe the ones in Switzerland? Just a guess…
You haven’t been following the multiple stories of “lost” money and equipment, have you rogerse.
Where did the, admitted, 190,000 weapons go? Who got paid? How many of those weapons have been turned against us and the government of Iraq?
Where did the pallets of cash, $6 billion dollars and many tons, go? How on Earth can one “lose” several tons of currency? how much of that currency is now funding hostile factions?
What percentage of the mayhem in Iraq is facilitated by weapons supplied by the U.S? How many foreign weapons have been purchased with funds “lost” by the U.S?
There is inevitable waste in war, but, the real issue in this story is that the “missing” money/equipment is, most likely, being used to fund the other side. And I think most impartial observers would agree that funding one’s enemies, intentionally or through incompetence, is a recipe for certain defeat.
According to Mr. Rogerse, if we were to just spend a few hundred billion more, then the 23 billion would only be 2%, which would of course, be much better.
Why do you hate your kids, who are going to have to pay this debt off eventually.
You too update? Surely you can appreciate the near certainty that anything “lost” in Iraq will be turned against us?
Nope. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy, even by “mistake”, is a serious offense. It’s bad enough Bushco invaded a country “by mistake”. To then supply our “enemies” is unforgivable treason. And I don’t consider treason a trivial matter.
And just in case anyone can’t connect these particular dots:
Some of the “missing” stuff has most certainly found it’s way directly into al Qaeda’s hands. If fighting them is your mission, it just makes irresponsible “losses” more serious.
backup Says:
Do you leave them there to declare victory, or do you fight them there, regardless of why they’re there in the first place?
After we leave, any Al Qaeda that don’t leave will probably be executed.
If you understood anything at all about the culture there, you would realize that as well.
And I concede that al Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq before we invaded, but they are there now.
I heard a report on NPR that described the situation this way…
“If you had a leaky faucet and the plumber you hired to fix it screwed up and you came home to a flooded house, would you then say ‘Oh well, wish I hadn’t hired this plumber, he only made the problem worse- but there’s a BIG problem now and I really need a plumber now and he’s here so let’s just let him keep working.’
No- that would be idiotic. You’d say- ‘Thanks for stopping by but you’ve made this problem worse with your incompetence and I want you to pay for it to be fixed by a competent plumber..’
Iraq needs a new plumber… we’ve lost all credibility and wishing it better just gets more people killed on all sides.
Sorry rogerse. The subject isn’t the Saudi role in international terrorism, though it’s a fascinating subject, the topic at hand is the irresponsible loss of an admitted $23 billion dollars.
I have pointed out, to those who have defended this incompetence, that it is a grave matter because the “lost” wealth is probably being used directly against us. I make no claims or assumptions about the relative contributions of other countries. I merely seek to disabuse people of the belief that “losing” anything in Iraq is trivial because it will be put to diabolical uses.
victory. I’ll declare victory when true democracy is the law of the land here again.
This administration is so completely immoral and it’s being exposed for the frauds they are.
The public has a right to know this information. I have a right to know how the money (my money) was spent. This administration can no longer hide behind the boogey man of fear. It’s an ironic twist of fate that the one’s being oppressed are the British at the hand of the vengeful Lady Liberty.
23 billion doesn’t just get lost. I have a right to know and the question needs to be answered by our representatives.
I’m sure you’ll agree rogers(e,r, or whatever tangent you’ve been using)
Saudi Arabia remains the world’s leading source of money for Al Qaeda and other extremist networks and has failed to take key steps requested by U.S. officials to stem the flow.
And who are the Saudi’s butt-buddies? Can you say the Bush Crime Family? Any idea how the Bin Laden family was flown out of the US after 9/11 when NO other aircraft were in the air?
Where did almost all the 9/11 hijackers came from?
So tell me again why we are in Iraq and not in Saudi (and Afghanistan in a major way)? And if you don’t say BushCo, ego, money and oil, ……….BRRRRRRRR – You Lose!
This is quite amusing.
23 billions of OUR money is lost,
Bush & CO. put a “gag” order such that WE cannot find out what happened,
and there are some who still defend this administration. (Well, it’s only 3%)
Ironic, these are the same nitwits who nearly blew a gasket (pun intended) during a former presidents consentual oral gratification with an adult. A private matter that should have had a gag order (again, pun intended). But noooooooooo! Money lost, countless dead and maimed, ever increasing debt to China? Sure, let it pass. An affair with an intern? Impeach! Impeach! Impeach!
Am I the only one who thinks this is just fcked up? That our priorities are also?
After we leave, any Al Qaeda that don’t leave will probably be executed.
If you understood anything at all about the culture there, you would realize that as well.
They’ll probably be lots of executions, not all Al Qaeda.
backup Says:
Do you leave them there to declare victory, or do you fight them there, regardless of why they’re there in the first place?
Do you realize how revealing that statement is? Guess what? When we leave, whether it’s with parades or under fire, the people of Iraq will declare victory. You can’t “win” an occupation so get over it. We WILL lose. Big deal.
There’s a great parallel in recent American history. Those who wished to continue our occupation of S. Vietnam made all sorts of dire predictions about how the communists would ride the tide of victory to conquer the globe.
Well. We left. The communists declared victory and… Without the impetus of a “Hot War” communism, as it was, meekly faded away. No new communist countries were formed and many of the old ones abandoned communism. Like many marginal political systems, communism, needs the driving force of a supreme goal, conflict, or enemy to give it vitality. Plus, communism is against human nature so, even if it’s been adopted eagerly, it’s abandoned in disillusionment. Humans don’t make good ants.
The whole point of the rant is to demonstrate that “declaring victory” in an isolated conflict does not, historically, provide much momentum for political movements. They are ultimately judged on their own merits. Allowing the “terrorists” to “declare victory” would not make their message any more palatable to peace loving, rational, people. And I don’t think you could find a whole lot of historical examples that would, under close scrutiny, belie that observation.
You put $23,000 in an account in your bank, when you go to draw it out, there is $22,310 in the account.
You tell the bank, they took $690 (3%) of your money and they say “Just a 3% loss, no Biggie, just the cost of doing business”, happens all the time in the banking world.
They’ll probably be lots of executions, not all Al Qaeda.
But, as long as we get our troops out…
There probably will be… the situation is f’ed.
Us staying doesn’t help though, it makes things worse.
We’ll be paying for Bush’s folly for a long time to come and the Iraqi’s will be paying more… but we need someone with some credibility to begin sorting out this mess and that someone ain’t us…
Ah b-kup. You come so close then turn away. You do realize that you are proposing?
Your saying that we should continue real violence to prevent hypothetical violence and you can’t get by your all or nothing thinking. You can’t get past the full immediate unconditional withdrawal. Which is silly because it’s impossible and no reasonable person with authority has suggested any such thing.
I say, “stop the real violence now deal with the hypothetical violence if and when it develops”. And here’s a hypothetical scenario to consider.
What if the U.S. forces declared a conditional unilateral cease fire and cessation of offensive patrols.
Here are the conditions: We would, obviously, return hostile fire. We would secure our bases and help with securing Iraqi facilities as needed. We would continue to provide technical and logistic support (which could include bomb detection/disposal)for LEGITIMATE Iraqi forces. We would continue to provide needed emergency support for LEGITIMATE Iraqi forces.
Now. What possible harm would such an experiment cause?
Though the United Kingdom and its empire emerged victorious from World War II, the effects of the conflict were profound, both at home and abroad. Much of Europe, a continent that had dominated the world for four hundred years, was now literally in ruins, and host to the armies of the United States and the Soviet Union, to whom the balance of global power had now shifted.[45] Britain itself was left virtually bankrupt, with insolvency only averted in 1946 after the negotiation of a $3.5 billion loan from the United States,[46] the last installment of which was repaid in 2006[47].
>And I concede that al Qaeda
> wasn’t in Iraq before we invaded,
> but they are there now
wow, the reality is strong in this one..hehe
from your article:
“According to the internal al Qaeda correspondence in the files, Iraqis have taken to, and effectively run, al Qaeda in Iraq. Foreign fighters’ roles seem mostly relegated to the canon fodder of suicide attacks.”
AQI is pretty much a group of iraqi nationalists, they were not our enemies before we started this, and I think its fair to say that virtually all of them will return to wholly iraqi affairs once we leave.
I dont think someone should get to commit 23 billion dollars of fraud simply in the name of fighting some group that wasnt around before we invaded..
Hitler was financed with only about 27 million and look at the damage that caused. 23 billion can finance a whole lot of terrorism and thats why this is important, RrOoGgEeRr, that we know where that money went.
This is the one article (war profiteering) that Kucinich introduced that should have legs. Waxman said in response to this article that it is the biggest fraud ever. Nancy is hiding under the table.
The $23 Billion missing in Iraq was loaned to us by the Communist Chinese as part of BushCo’s insane deficit-spending economic program over the past 7 1/2 years that has ballooned our federal deficit to close to $10 Trillion. (Which, I’m certain, our children, grand-children and great-grand-children will be glad to pay).
So, just wait until the Communist Chinese learn that BushCo lost all that money over in Iraq, their money that they loaned us by buying trillions in U.S. government bonds, presumably a safe investment bet, or at least, at one time, it was.
Hopefully, George W. Bush will make Communist China part of his farewell tour, at which time the Communist Chinese should demand to his face that he account for the missing billions in Iraq, which indirectly was theirs.
I’m currently in Kuwait, and if you could see the amount of money that is thrown around daily at this war it’s ridiculous. We’ve been here so long that SUSTAINMENT contracts are now in place, because it’s too expensive to run CONTINGENCY contracts for 10-20 years.
Because of all the corruption that took place in Kuwait since the beginning of the war GAO has a permamnent office down here and spends the whole time doing audits of contracts. In case you don’t remember two people who dealt in contracts in Kuwait committed suicide after being caught defrauding the government.
If it’s this controlled now, I can only imagine how it was in OIF 1 (first year of OIF for you non-military types)when shit was just off the hook and fairly unregulated.
I have buddies who were doing jobs outside their specialty in OIF 1 and they talk about going out with garbage bags full of cash and just handing it out to people and paying for things. I bet alot of that money just wound up in the hands of insurgents. It’s just lost.
Follow the money. It will lead you to the cave tht W and BinLaden hang out in together.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:33 pmHeckuva job, Dubya!
Worst.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:35 pmPresident.
EVER.
It’s OUR MONEY!!!!!! Why can’t WE know what happened to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 11th, 2008 at 2:35 pmPresident Obama will lift that gag order, and we’ll begin to find out that Bush/Cheney were so much worse than we thought.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:37 pmApparently not StratRat. Guess they might have to kill us if they told us.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:37 pmThis is how democracy ends
June 11th, 2008 at 2:41 pmThis is how democracy ends
This is how democracy ends
Not with a bang
but with a gag order
Now, just think about it….Paraguay ranch….23 billion in Swiss bank account… January 8 plane flight…
You can bet that Bush, Cheney, and their buddies have pocketed that money.
WORST, MOST CRIMINAL, STOLEN PRESIDENCY IN HISTORY
June 11th, 2008 at 2:42 pmWhy would we be interested in $26B that found its way (through war profiteering) into the pockets of the friends and family of our executive branch? We only paid it into the government through taxes – it’s not like it’s really ours.
This money could NOT be used to improve the economy or bring down the price of oil – you need a magic wand for those things.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:43 pmNow, just think about it….Paraguay ranch….23 billion in Swiss bank account… January 8 plane flight…
You can bet that Bush, Cheney, and their buddies have pocketed that money.
WORST, MOST CRIMINAL, STOLEN PRESIDENCY IN HISTORY
Yep…I believe it. Connect the dots and that is where you end up. God, do I wish we could get our country back.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:44 pmOooops – $23B. What’s $3B in unamrked bills amongst friends in Iraq anyway?
June 11th, 2008 at 2:44 pmBuckie Boy Says:
Now, just think about it….Paraguay ranch….23 billion in Swiss bank account… January 8 plane flight…
You can bet that Bush, Cheney, and their buddies have pocketed that money.
WORST, MOST CRIMINAL, STOLEN PRESIDENCY IN HISTORY
Maybe the last two renditions done by the US will be to Paraguay and Dubai. If so, I will have to say THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!
June 11th, 2008 at 2:45 pmIf they have nothing to hide, then they should welcome any inquiries. Since they have imposed a gag order and are stonewalling, one can not help but conclude they are trying to hide a whole rat’s nest of illegal shit.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:46 pmAnd does anyone else find it sad that we seem to always get the real news about the US, not from our media, but from BBC? Remember the Downing Street memo?
June 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pmBush could care less about the taxpayer’s money, as long as it’s going to his buds. This kind of behavior exists on the blue side of the political aisle.
http://peureport.blogspot.com/2008/06/obamas-vp-vetter-peu.html
The red and blue franchises compete for the right to send yachtloads of business to their friends. It’s time for the people to be very aware.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pmNow, let me get this straight, it’s somehow okay for known criminals to obstruct justice with EOs & gag orders ?!?
June 11th, 2008 at 2:49 pmThere’s something very wrong with this picture.
ninique Says:
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=Fp8IG8NKDK0&feature=related
juuuicy!
June 11th, 2008 at 2:49 pmKeith H. Says:
Now, let me get this straight, it’s somehow okay for known criminals to obstruct justice with EOs & gag orders ?!?
There’s something very wrong with this picture.
Welcome to Bush’s Amerikkka. Land of the greed, home of the depraved.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:50 pmremember Rumsfeld reported the Pentagon could not account
June 11th, 2008 at 2:52 pmfor 2.3 trillion on Sept.10,2001 the day before this Government attacked it’s own people.
Well thank goodness Bush saved all that money not giving us national healthcare so he could give it to a band of thieves. Whew, close call.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:55 pmYEAH! We don’t need no stinkin’ dictators!
June 11th, 2008 at 2:56 pmhmmm wondering what kind of united states gag order is legally binding to a UK company? we all know the Us doesnt beleive in international law so why is anyone outside a Us border afraid of speaking up?
spill it BBC. theres massive fraud in them thar hills, its our money, and SOMEBODY needs to talk about it..
just like the telecom spying, looks like we’ll need lawyers to get to the bottom of this.. got Qui Tam?
June 11th, 2008 at 2:57 pmShayne Says:
Well thank goodness Bush saved all that money not giving us national healthcare so he could give it to a band of thieves. Whew, close call.
It’s not funny, but it really was. Good job.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:57 pmWelcome to the Fascist States of America.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:58 pm.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:58 pmCongrats, Bush supporters.
Here is another of your legacy.
No accountability
No accountability
No accountabliity
Rinse
Repeat
June 11th, 2008 at 3:00 pm$23 billion here…
June 11th, 2008 at 3:03 pm$23 billion there.
.
Pretty soon it starts to add up to some real money!
DRxJ Says:
Congrats, Bush supporters.
Here is another of your legacy.
No accountability
No accountability
No accountabliity
Rinse
Repeat
Yep. It still amazes me that some citizens cannot see the things we see. If we have access to the same information, why are we fuming about it and they don’t seem to care? It’s their money too. Are they afraid of retaliation from the GOP or their neighbors? I don’t get their supprt of this obvious criminal enterprise.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:04 pmohhh, gee, I wonder why he feels the need to use a gag order, hmmm.. I wonder. what a f@#king evil bast*rd.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:07 pmSo $23b=about %3 lost.%3.
Ask a taxpayer if they think that way; I doubt they would minimize the impact of embezzeling $3,000,000,000. I appreciate it is a small percentage, but that just underscores the vast cost of the illegal invasion and occupation. ITS OUR MONEY!!!!!!!WHERE IS IT????????
June 11th, 2008 at 3:08 pmStratRat Says:
Yep. It still amazes me that some citizens cannot see the things we see. If we have access to the same information, why are we fuming about it and they don’t seem to care? It’s their money too. Are they afraid of retaliation from the GOP or their neighbors? I don’t get their supprt of this obvious criminal enterprise.
If you look closely at this, the Righties have been able to control the content of the media to make sure their base only gets the message they want them to hear. If Limpballs, Coultergeist, Nazis Beck and Savage weiner and Faux were gone, the 23%ers would be about 7%ers.
But there is too much money to be made for that to ever happen.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:08 pmrogerse Says:
http://www.reuters.com/ article/ topNews/ idUSN2921527420080302?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true
The nearly 5-year-old war, once billed as virtually paying for itself through increased Iraqi oil exports, has cost the U.S. Treasury $845 billion directly.
So $23b=about %3 lost.%3.
Rogers,
Thanx for reminding us all of the cost of the war but you left out the 4,000 dead and over 25,000 wounded, plus the ongoing costs over the next 50 years to care for all the veterans.
That was a very good post!
June 11th, 2008 at 3:12 pmThis is ridiculous! How can the War Criminal, the imbecil in chief, the TORTURER, have the power to gag investigation and inquire into his own crimes??????!!!!! The USA used to be a serious country…
June 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pmBush won’t sign the GI Bill which would cost about 2.5 billion per year but almost ten times that amount has been lost in Iraq. And that doesn’t even touch on the countless billions that have been wasted. Proving yet again that enriching their cronies at Haliburton is far more important than rewarding the poor souls who fight their wars for them.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pmRogers is A-OK with throwing away even 3% of taxpayer dollars. I thought republicans ran on having a deep concern for the taxpayer.
The repubs take up what looks better before their own eyes –either percentages or raw numbers — and uses that against their opponents.
Want the truth? $845 billion, or 100%, has been wasted.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pm32-
June 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pmI agree! Great post! But it was also left out the number of dead iraqui civilians and the displaced population of Iraq. Not to mention the destrucion of that country and the dstruction of the US’s ecenomy!
So, which Democratic rep or senator is going to have the spine to publicly cry foul?
Impeach Pelosi, Cheney, Bush.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:19 pmupside99 Says:
And does anyone else find it sad that we seem to always get the real news about the US, not from our media, but from BBC? Remember the Downing Street memo?
Not to mention this little gem about McCain and his first wife:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
PEACE
June 11th, 2008 at 3:20 pmThe 2.3 trillion found “missing” on Sept.10,2001
June 11th, 2008 at 3:21 pm(reported by Rummy) — I believe this was the payoff for 9/11.
sacopenapa Says:
And not to mention the complete loss of respect for the US by the rest of the world.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:21 pm…and on 9/11 everyone forgot about the 2.3 trillion reported missing from the Pentagon by Rummy… (they were counting on that)
June 11th, 2008 at 3:23 pmIs it not possible that Rep. Inhofe had mail room duty when the 23 billion was shipped? Maybe it’s safe, sound, and unclaimed in “Iraq, Africa”?
sarc/off
June 11th, 2008 at 3:27 pmwayne 37
June 11th, 2008 at 3:28 pmWe had so much hope when Pelosi came in… she stabed everybody’s hope in the back!
rogerse Says:
Total amount is another issue, but there’s hardly an issue of lost spending at %3 for warfare.
23 BILLION DOLLARS is “hardly an issue”?
rogers, you are an idiot if you think anyone falls for that BS.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pmI sent a letter to Pelosi today expressing my sadness at her not backing Kucinich’s Impeachment Bill.
Now it’s time to send her packing.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pmWelcome Cindy Sheehan.
At $4 a gallon, this Most Corrupt Administration in the history of this Great Country has…
surely taken us all for a ride…
June 11th, 2008 at 3:33 pmAt $4+ a gallon, this Most Corrupt Administration in the history of this Great Country has…
surely has taken us all for a ride…
June 11th, 2008 at 3:33 pmWHEN is someone going to look at Bush and Cheney’s bank accounts? Especially the ones over in the Caymans? No? Maybe the ones in Switzerland? Just a guess…
June 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm23 billion is a lot of money. But, if you believe in fighting al Qaeda, maybe it’s worth it.
Here’s a CNN piece that describes the fight with al Qaeda in Iraq:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/06/11/al.qaeda.iraq/index.html?iref=topnews
June 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pmYou haven’t been following the multiple stories of “lost” money and equipment, have you rogerse.
Where did the, admitted, 190,000 weapons go? Who got paid? How many of those weapons have been turned against us and the government of Iraq?
Where did the pallets of cash, $6 billion dollars and many tons, go? How on Earth can one “lose” several tons of currency? how much of that currency is now funding hostile factions?
What percentage of the mayhem in Iraq is facilitated by weapons supplied by the U.S? How many foreign weapons have been purchased with funds “lost” by the U.S?
There is inevitable waste in war, but, the real issue in this story is that the “missing” money/equipment is, most likely, being used to fund the other side. And I think most impartial observers would agree that funding one’s enemies, intentionally or through incompetence, is a recipe for certain defeat.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pmRogerse, you must be Roger2 from the sound of your dysfunctional posts.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pmbackup Says:
23 billion is a lot of money. But, if you believe in fighting al Qaeda, maybe it’s worth it.
I’m presuming you mean the Al Quaida which wasn’t in Iraq until we invaded? Is that who you are referring to? Kind ass backwards, if you ask me.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pmbackup Says:
23 billion is a lot of money. But, if you believe in fighting al Qaeda, maybe it’s worth it.
Here’s a CNN piece that describes the fight with al Qaeda in Iraq
The real Al Qaeda is still in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.
That propaganda is old and worn. Like the “Iranian” weapons captured, that were not.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pmAccording to Mr. Rogerse, if we were to just spend a few hundred billion more, then the 23 billion would only be 2%, which would of course, be much better.
Why do you hate your kids, who are going to have to pay this debt off eventually.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pmThis from the same people who wanted to bring ethics back into the white house. Kucinich has the right idea. Impeachment is needed.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pmYou too update? Surely you can appreciate the near certainty that anything “lost” in Iraq will be turned against us?
Nope. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy, even by “mistake”, is a serious offense. It’s bad enough Bushco invaded a country “by mistake”. To then supply our “enemies” is unforgivable treason. And I don’t consider treason a trivial matter.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:50 pmIf it’s propaganda, better tell CNN.
And I concede that al Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq before we invaded, but they are there now.
Do you leave them there to declare victory, or do you fight them there, regardless of why they’re there in the first place?
June 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pmAnd just in case anyone can’t connect these particular dots:
Some of the “missing” stuff has most certainly found it’s way directly into al Qaeda’s hands. If fighting them is your mission, it just makes irresponsible “losses” more serious.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pmbackup Says:
Do you leave them there to declare victory, or do you fight them there, regardless of why they’re there in the first place?
After we leave, any Al Qaeda that don’t leave will probably be executed.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pmIf you understood anything at all about the culture there, you would realize that as well.
And I concede that al Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq before we invaded, but they are there now.
I heard a report on NPR that described the situation this way…
“If you had a leaky faucet and the plumber you hired to fix it screwed up and you came home to a flooded house, would you then say ‘Oh well, wish I hadn’t hired this plumber, he only made the problem worse- but there’s a BIG problem now and I really need a plumber now and he’s here so let’s just let him keep working.’
No- that would be idiotic. You’d say- ‘Thanks for stopping by but you’ve made this problem worse with your incompetence and I want you to pay for it to be fixed by a competent plumber..’
Iraq needs a new plumber… we’ve lost all credibility and wishing it better just gets more people killed on all sides.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pmSorry rogerse. The subject isn’t the Saudi role in international terrorism, though it’s a fascinating subject, the topic at hand is the irresponsible loss of an admitted $23 billion dollars.
I have pointed out, to those who have defended this incompetence, that it is a grave matter because the “lost” wealth is probably being used directly against us. I make no claims or assumptions about the relative contributions of other countries. I merely seek to disabuse people of the belief that “losing” anything in Iraq is trivial because it will be put to diabolical uses.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:04 pmvictory. I’ll declare victory when true democracy is the law of the land here again.
This administration is so completely immoral and it’s being exposed for the frauds they are.
The public has a right to know this information. I have a right to know how the money (my money) was spent. This administration can no longer hide behind the boogey man of fear. It’s an ironic twist of fate that the one’s being oppressed are the British at the hand of the vengeful Lady Liberty.
23 billion doesn’t just get lost. I have a right to know and the question needs to be answered by our representatives.
I’m sure you’ll agree rogers(e,r, or whatever tangent you’ve been using)
June 11th, 2008 at 4:06 pmrogerse Says:
Saudi Arabia remains the world’s leading source of money for Al Qaeda and other extremist networks and has failed to take key steps requested by U.S. officials to stem the flow.
And who are the Saudi’s butt-buddies? Can you say the Bush Crime Family? Any idea how the Bin Laden family was flown out of the US after 9/11 when NO other aircraft were in the air?
Where did almost all the 9/11 hijackers came from?
So tell me again why we are in Iraq and not in Saudi (and Afghanistan in a major way)? And if you don’t say BushCo, ego, money and oil, ……….BRRRRRRRR – You Lose!
June 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pmThis is quite amusing.
23 billions of OUR money is lost,
Bush & CO. put a “gag” order such that WE cannot find out what happened,
and there are some who still defend this administration. (Well, it’s only 3%)
Ironic, these are the same nitwits who nearly blew a gasket (pun intended) during a former presidents consentual oral gratification with an adult. A private matter that should have had a gag order (again, pun intended). But noooooooooo! Money lost, countless dead and maimed, ever increasing debt to China? Sure, let it pass. An affair with an intern? Impeach! Impeach! Impeach!
Am I the only one who thinks this is just fcked up? That our priorities are also?
June 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pmThey’ll probably be lots of executions, not all Al Qaeda.
But, as long as we get our troops out…
June 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pmThe issue, as I see it, is that they are trying to cover it up, which means they know where it went.
As we were told when they started tapping, “Theres nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide.”
The same applies here. If they have nothing to worry about then they have nothing to hide.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pmbackup Says:
Do you leave them there to declare victory, or do you fight them there, regardless of why they’re there in the first place?
Do you realize how revealing that statement is? Guess what? When we leave, whether it’s with parades or under fire, the people of Iraq will declare victory. You can’t “win” an occupation so get over it. We WILL lose. Big deal.
There’s a great parallel in recent American history. Those who wished to continue our occupation of S. Vietnam made all sorts of dire predictions about how the communists would ride the tide of victory to conquer the globe.
Well. We left. The communists declared victory and… Without the impetus of a “Hot War” communism, as it was, meekly faded away. No new communist countries were formed and many of the old ones abandoned communism. Like many marginal political systems, communism, needs the driving force of a supreme goal, conflict, or enemy to give it vitality. Plus, communism is against human nature so, even if it’s been adopted eagerly, it’s abandoned in disillusionment. Humans don’t make good ants.
The whole point of the rant is to demonstrate that “declaring victory” in an isolated conflict does not, historically, provide much momentum for political movements. They are ultimately judged on their own merits. Allowing the “terrorists” to “declare victory” would not make their message any more palatable to peace loving, rational, people. And I don’t think you could find a whole lot of historical examples that would, under close scrutiny, belie that observation.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:25 pmRoger2,
Let’s try it this way:
You put $23,000 in an account in your bank, when you go to draw it out, there is $22,310 in the account.
You tell the bank, they took $690 (3%) of your money and they say “Just a 3% loss, no Biggie, just the cost of doing business”, happens all the time in the banking world.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:27 pmThey’ll probably be lots of executions, not all Al Qaeda.
But, as long as we get our troops out…
There probably will be… the situation is f’ed.
Us staying doesn’t help though, it makes things worse.
We’ll be paying for Bush’s folly for a long time to come and the Iraqi’s will be paying more… but we need someone with some credibility to begin sorting out this mess and that someone ain’t us…
June 11th, 2008 at 4:36 pmYes, Nancy… keep impeachment off the table.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:43 pmAh b-kup. You come so close then turn away. You do realize that you are proposing?
Your saying that we should continue real violence to prevent hypothetical violence and you can’t get by your all or nothing thinking. You can’t get past the full immediate unconditional withdrawal. Which is silly because it’s impossible and no reasonable person with authority has suggested any such thing.
I say, “stop the real violence now deal with the hypothetical violence if and when it develops”. And here’s a hypothetical scenario to consider.
What if the U.S. forces declared a conditional unilateral cease fire and cessation of offensive patrols.
Here are the conditions: We would, obviously, return hostile fire. We would secure our bases and help with securing Iraqi facilities as needed. We would continue to provide technical and logistic support (which could include bomb detection/disposal)for LEGITIMATE Iraqi forces. We would continue to provide needed emergency support for LEGITIMATE Iraqi forces.
Now. What possible harm would such an experiment cause?
June 11th, 2008 at 4:45 pmExactly who is being gagged by president dooshbag?
June 11th, 2008 at 4:49 pmThough the United Kingdom and its empire emerged victorious from World War II, the effects of the conflict were profound, both at home and abroad. Much of Europe, a continent that had dominated the world for four hundred years, was now literally in ruins, and host to the armies of the United States and the Soviet Union, to whom the balance of global power had now shifted.[45] Britain itself was left virtually bankrupt, with insolvency only averted in 1946 after the negotiation of a $3.5 billion loan from the United States,[46] the last installment of which was repaid in 2006[47].
No RrOoGgEeRr 23 billion isnt much money.
*shakes head, rolls eyes twice*
June 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pm>And I concede that al Qaeda
> wasn’t in Iraq before we invaded,
> but they are there now
wow, the reality is strong in this one..hehe
from your article:
“According to the internal al Qaeda correspondence in the files, Iraqis have taken to, and effectively run, al Qaeda in Iraq. Foreign fighters’ roles seem mostly relegated to the canon fodder of suicide attacks.”
AQI is pretty much a group of iraqi nationalists, they were not our enemies before we started this, and I think its fair to say that virtually all of them will return to wholly iraqi affairs once we leave.
I dont think someone should get to commit 23 billion dollars of fraud simply in the name of fighting some group that wasnt around before we invaded..
June 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pmExcellent point “Exit”. And, I might add, which Bush toady of a judge is signing the “gagging orders”?
June 11th, 2008 at 5:02 pmWhat senate committee has oversight responsibility for what department that lost the money? How is the inquiry and accountability working out?
June 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pmHitler was financed with only about 27 million and look at the damage that caused. 23 billion can finance a whole lot of terrorism and thats why this is important, RrOoGgEeRr, that we know where that money went.
June 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pmIs Nancy on vacation? How is Congress going to ignore this?
June 11th, 2008 at 9:01 pmThis is the one article (war profiteering) that Kucinich introduced that should have legs. Waxman said in response to this article that it is the biggest fraud ever. Nancy is hiding under the table.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:15 pmNothing to worry about.
The $23 Billion missing in Iraq was loaned to us by the Communist Chinese as part of BushCo’s insane deficit-spending economic program over the past 7 1/2 years that has ballooned our federal deficit to close to $10 Trillion. (Which, I’m certain, our children, grand-children and great-grand-children will be glad to pay).
So, just wait until the Communist Chinese learn that BushCo lost all that money over in Iraq, their money that they loaned us by buying trillions in U.S. government bonds, presumably a safe investment bet, or at least, at one time, it was.
Hopefully, George W. Bush will make Communist China part of his farewell tour, at which time the Communist Chinese should demand to his face that he account for the missing billions in Iraq, which indirectly was theirs.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:02 pmpete. I had to go but your posts were very reasonable.
A lot of what you are saying in #70 makes sense, with one caveat, apparently there were considerable atrocities after the Vietnam war, millions.
Are similar events possible after we leave Iraq. If they’re possible, can they be mitigated?
Your proposals in #74 also seem reasonable.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:08 pmBlogwhoring…so sorry.
You’re gonna love this!
Why are YOU voting Republican?
June 12th, 2008 at 12:38 amI’m currently in Kuwait, and if you could see the amount of money that is thrown around daily at this war it’s ridiculous. We’ve been here so long that SUSTAINMENT contracts are now in place, because it’s too expensive to run CONTINGENCY contracts for 10-20 years.
Because of all the corruption that took place in Kuwait since the beginning of the war GAO has a permamnent office down here and spends the whole time doing audits of contracts. In case you don’t remember two people who dealt in contracts in Kuwait committed suicide after being caught defrauding the government.
If it’s this controlled now, I can only imagine how it was in OIF 1 (first year of OIF for you non-military types)when shit was just off the hook and fairly unregulated.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:32 amI have buddies who were doing jobs outside their specialty in OIF 1 and they talk about going out with garbage bags full of cash and just handing it out to people and paying for things. I bet alot of that money just wound up in the hands of insurgents. It’s just lost.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:35 amImpeach Bush,Cheney & Pelosi…
June 12th, 2008 at 8:23 amIf you think that 23 Billion is alot. Take a look at this article about a Trillion dollars worth of corruption in this administartion.
June 12th, 2008 at 11:37 amhttp://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9288
Paying off the world to let Americans remain in a bubble and continue their lifestyles won’t fly forever.
June 12th, 2008 at 5:42 pm