Sen. Reed castigates William Haynes: ‘You degraded the integrity of the U.S. military.’
Sen. Reed castigates William Haynes: ‘You degraded the integrity of the U.S. military.’
Testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday, former Pentagon counsel William Haynes tried to absolve himself of blame for detainee abuse in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay. “As the lawyer, I was not the decision maker. I was the adviser,” he said. With anger in his voice, Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) told Haynes that his advice had led American soldiers drastically astray:
You did a disservice to the soldiers of this nation. You empowered them to violate basic conditions which every soldier respects — the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, the Geneva Convention. … Don’t go around with this attitude of you’re protecting the integrity of the military. You degraded the integrity of the United States military.
Watch it:
Haynes was part of five-person team of high-level administration lawyers, dubbed the “War Council,” who hatched out the legal framework for torture in secret meetings. McClatchy reports, “The quintet did more than condone harsh treatment, however. It created an environment in which it was nearly impossible to prosecute soldiers or officials for alleged crimes committed in U.S. detention facilities.”
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Reed, yo GO, guy!
At Nuremberg, the defense of ” ordnung is ordnung”(orders are orders) are NOT a valid defense. Following illegal orders is INDEED a war CRIME.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:58 amIt’s about time these architects of evil get chastised in the light of day. They are still trying to defend their actions when anyone with a heart and mind knows it was indefensible behavior. The next logical step would be to prosecute these men and hold them accountable for their atrocities and illegal cruelty. Anything less would be criminal.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:00 pmYup, watched the whole show yesterday - pretty informative and nauseatingly pathetic at the same time. Gee, 6 years is so long ago. Gee, I had lots of conversations. Gee, I looked at a lot of stuff. Yeah, so did we all, but none as important as flushing the MCJ and the US Constitution down the toilet, I bet. Those conversations I’d be sure to remember, especially if I was an Administration lawyer. Why, you ask, because I’d know my neck is on the chopping block when throwing someone under the bus time comes.
My big question of the day - one that no one in the mainstream media seems interested in asking today — is what is Congress going to do about with what it knows now that Congress must admit that it knows it. In other words, now that you’ve had the oversight hearing and determined that the Unitary Executive is in dire need of oversight and accountability - WHAT WILL CONGRESS DO, both to those that allowed this to occur and to ensure it NEVER happens again?
The political points have been scored. It’s time to do you jobs.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:02 pmRhode Island, the smallest state in the union, can be proud of both of their representatives in the US Senate.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:03 pmAs long as Haynes as a yellow magnetic ribbon on the back of his SUV, he can get away with murder.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:03 pmAs I said in another thread, how do these people sleep at night. Are they all totally without conscience?
June 18th, 2008 at 12:08 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Rhode Island, the smallest state in the union, can be proud of both of their representatives in the US Senate.
We are. And we remember Chafee as a good guy too.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:18 pmWhen W was told of this hearing yesterday he said, “Oh, that’s the Uniformed Code of Military Justice? I thought it was the UN-INFORMED Code of Military Justice. My bad.”
June 18th, 2008 at 12:20 pmYou know I shake my head sometimes and wonder, “How did this happen? We are supposed to be the good guys!” We need to tell this administration that NOT IN OUR NAME do you not follow the Geneva Conventions! We are hurting our military by doing this. They should be ashamed, but I know they are not. Let’s take our country back!
June 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pmAnd you Senator Reed are a true patriot. Why don’t you tell those treasonous enablers around you to take their Chinese made flag pins and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pmI wish more people in Congress would show their outrage of the disgustingly immoral behavior that has gone on. Secret memos, meetings, and laws are not supportive of a democracy.
I imagine the Nazis slept well in the late 30s. They thought they were right and no one posed any significant opposition.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:23 pmDumb_Hussein_Fox:
June 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pmSorry to be off topic but do you know how the squid fishing off the party boats at Point Judith has been by any chance?
Got war crimes?
June 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pm“As the lawyer, I was not the decision maker. I was the adviser,”
So Haynes advocated for and provided legal cover for detainee abuse but because he wasn’t the “decider” then he’s not responsible. How can someone advocate mistreatment on the one hand and then run for cover when the truth comes out. It sounds like Haynes’ lack of integrity is matched by his lack of courage.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pmThis all happened because we the American people allowed it to happen. We should have all stormed DC years ago. The American that was once great died with a whimper instead of a bang because good people chose to do nothing.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pm‘with the advice of the entire cabinet to determine the applicability of the geneva conventions’
hmmm. that’s the first time i’ve heard that the depts of agriculture, interior, commerce, labor, education, transportation, health and human services, and treasury were complicit in that determination.
that’s quite the fount of expertise right there…
June 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pmReed has impressed me a number of times. RI also has Sheldon Whitehouse who is absolutely the f’in man. He was the one sitting there exasperated in a recent TP story about Republicans using rare procedural moves to block hearings on torture etc. Whitehouse is also the one who has sifted through all the “legal memos” written by John Yoo and company, and picked them apart to enumerate all the abuses and violations of law. Of course he was roundly ignored by the media, but I watched him on CSPAN and felt goosebumps I was so proud to have someone like that in Congress, and he’s not even my Rep.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:25 pmGive em Hell, Jack! That’s what they’re getting eventually, anyhoo.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:26 pmWe don’t need one hearing on this, we need half a dozen- break down all their bullshit passing the buck & “that was above my pay grade” crap.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:26 pmpo: The political points have been scored. It’s time to do you jobs
True enough. Trouble is the DOJ needs to be fumigated, and that can’t happen until January ‘09. If the Dems get the gains that look likely in both Houses and with Obama in the WH or Govt. and instutions can be restored to something like working order again and then all these people can be properly prosecuted. Question is of course, WILL THEY DO IT?
This is where Obama’s “reach across the aisle, healing and hope” rhetoric bothers me. If he really means that stuff (who knows, what’s said in campaigning is rarely followed through) and then there’s the likes of Reid and Pelosi and various Blue Dogs.
I think what is needed is a whole bunch of independent special prosecutors, each with a specific portfolio derived from all the investigations done thus far–most notably by Waxman. Obama needs to initate that, and then let them follow the evidence and make the cases.
I do not want to see any “healing”, I want to see the wounds excised and the infections purged–not some topical disinfectant applied to the syptoms.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:27 pmPaul W. @ 14
His argument doesn’t hold water anyway since he’s assuming the “decision maker” or “the decider” is responsible and will be held accountable for such decisions.
As we all know, GWB is never responsible for anything negative. Just as rogerse.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:27 pmadd on to my post @ 21:
Torture and such will eventually become Clinton’s fault…somehow.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:29 pmliberal traitor Says:
As we all know, GWB is never responsible for anything negative. Just as rogerse.
—
June 18th, 2008 at 12:30 pmIf we ask rogerse, we will just get a cut/paste response which may or may not be in context and with no critical, dare I say, a nail eh sis.
Wow:
http://www.motherjones.com/ news/ feature/ 2008/ 03/ am-i-a-torturer.html
READ.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:33 pmTurns out there is another hearing today on torture in a House Judiciary subcommittee. Will be on CSPAN3- live net feed available @ the link below; among the witnesses, lil’ Dougie Feith:
Wednesday 06/18/2008 - 2:00 PM
2141 Rayburn House Office Building
Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties
Hearing on: From the Department of Justice to Guantanamo Bay: Administration Lawyers and Administration Interrogation Rules, Part II
http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=454
June 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pmOne would hope that as a former constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago that this stuff pisses off Obama as much as it does the rest of us. While I still think Edwards would have been the best guy to go after this stuff Obama has to do better than McCain. Edwards for Attorney General!
June 18th, 2008 at 12:41 pmSeems to me, that you still committed a crime even if your lawyer says it’s OK to break the law. When are the Democrats going to show some intestinal fortitude and impeach Bush, Cheney and the rest of his crimal cohorts? Every day we see more evidence of the Bush Administration’s crimes, corruptions, immorality, and perfidity. How long, O’Lord, will we have to wait for the justice?
June 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
“Rhode Island, the smallest state in the union, can be proud of both of their representatives in the US Senate.”
Got that right, ralph!
June 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pmReally admire Reed and wish he had considered running as presidential candidate. Wouldn’t have been close! A true progressive with a distinguished military background.
dbadass Says:
Dumb_Hussein_Fox:
Sorry to be off topic but do you know how the squid fishing off the party boats at Point Judith has been by any chance?
It’s been okay I think - some really good days recently, but a bit patchy before. (Unfortunately I don’t live in Rhodie at the moment, so have to rely on the Projo and second hand reports from my old lobstering buddies.)
June 18th, 2008 at 12:52 pmWhen will they end the show trials? I am disturbed by a lack of concern about law among the democrats. Pointing fingers is bull Senator. Do something real.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:04 pm#29, Dumb_Hussein_Fox Says: dbadass Says:
If you’re ever up here in MN, I’ll show you how to catch our State fish…the tasty Walleye!
June 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pmDidn’t we used to find a tall tree and a short rope for guys like this?
June 18th, 2008 at 1:07 pmliberal traitor Says:
————————————————————-
Torture and such will eventually become Clinton’s fault…somehow.
Nah, they’ve finally moved on from that. Now it will be Obama’s fault.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pmHaynes and the “War Council” are war criminals as surely as those who performed the acts these creeps worked so hard to rationalize!
June 18th, 2008 at 1:37 pmZimzone Says:
——————————————————————————–
#29, Dumb_Hussein_Fox Says: dbadass Says:
If you’re ever up here in MN, I’ll show you how to catch our State fish…the tasty Walleye!
—
June 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pmThanks all. Cod fishing is the usual hit or miss in NH. Dogfish are in. It is hard to image just how much we have managed to damage the NE groundfisheries. Everyone please make responsible fish/seafood purchases!!!
Bear in mind, that low level national guard troops were imprisoned for doing what they were told to do based on the “advice” given by the “War Council.” Some remain jailed. That’s what happened to the scapegoated few. What will happen to the architects? To the enablers?
June 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
When members of the Administration conspire to commit torture, violate USMC and the Geneva Conventions, what do we have… ?
… Yet William Haynes defends this…
Does Haynes see some value to endorsing a rogue government?
.
June 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pmAnd once again, I have to ask the redundant question; WTF??????
Why is this only on C-Span, where was Faux, CBS, ABC, NBC?
Oh yea, too busy with their reality shows and telling us which bimbo got arrested/drunk/pregnant today.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:04 pmAs per comment @ 25- Guess what? Cowardly Dougie Feith told the HJC just this morning that he refuses to appear @ the hearing today because he’d have to be there with one of the other witnesses *cough Wilkerson cough*. Now they have to have a separate hearing just for lil’ DOugie.
Feith is afraid of Lawrence WIlkerson. What a chickenshit.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pmDumb Questions:
By criticizing the Lawyer, is he not criticizing Bush ?
Who invented the atmosphere where these 5 guys could come together and make this abhorrent plan take flight ?
Hope some of the lawyers roll over on the big cheese
June 18th, 2008 at 3:08 pmWilliam Haynes acts very feminine.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:12 pmJune 18th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Plenty of commentary on these hearings. The maladministration is trying to educate new 1-Ls at Regent University Law School on the fine points of jurisprudence (my commentary and lots of links).
Cheers,
June 18th, 2008 at 3:46 pmHaynes just implicated the President of the United States AND the entire cabinet in War Crimes…Can we impeach yet?
June 18th, 2008 at 4:46 pmWell, there you go.. in the final sentence he implicated the president. Impeach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 18th, 2008 at 5:45 pmI think George W. Bush once said, “You are either with us or against us.” Although that quote was covering the so-called “war on terror”, I think it also applies to the many crimes the Bush administration committed. Since Haynes not only did not speak out against this wrongdoing, but furthermore advised soldiers it was OK to violate basic codes of conduct and the Geneva Convention, he obviously was with the Bush administration in orchestrating prison abuses. Haynes’ role was to give his expert opinion on the law. He advised the Pentagon it was OK to break military law, so Haynes doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
June 18th, 2008 at 6:01 pmThat’s the spirit!! And that’s the only appropriate tone. They walk around with this disgusting holier-than-thou attitude of don’t-critize-the-military-you-leftwing-traitors –when in fact it is them who ordered war crimes.
I agree, sacopenapa: The Hague. Nothing less.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:05 amThe article is not quite right. Sen Reed made his comments as a response to Haynes’ “you’re not supporting our troops” comment. Haynes was asked about the lists of conditions an interrogator had to follow in order to utilize the torture techniques in a document approved by Rumsfeld. Instead of answering, Haynes stated that the questions raised by Sen. Reed MALIGNED the soldiers whose job it was to implement the interrogators.
Watching this slick lawyer and others squirming in front of that microphone just warms my heart.
These hearings should be played prime time and on all the major networks. It is the absolute best Reality TV ever and a major broadcast could perhaps cause the public to be more concerned about their own government than what bimbo will be chosen by a rock star as his next bedmate.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:04 pm