ThinkFast: June 19, 2008
ThinkFast: June 19, 2008
House leaders in both parties struck a deal on a long-overdue war supplemental bill that includes billions for emergency flood relief, an extension of unemployment benefits and expanded GI Bill college benefits for veterans. The GI Bill is Sen. Jim Webb’s (D-VA) version, plus $10 billion to “allow career personnel to shift their benefits to their spouses or children.” President Bush is expected to sign the compromise.
Larry Sinclair was arrested after an appearance at the National Press club yesterday. Sinclair, who has a 27-year criminal record, held the press conference to continue spreading his unfounded rumors about Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL). He was “charged as a fugitive from justice” after 2 US Marshals presented him with a warrant from the state of Delaware.
In an interview with the New York Times, Lt. Cmdr. William C. Kuebler, the military lawyer for Guantánamo detainee Omar Khadr, said “the Bush administration’s war crimes system ‘is designed to get criminal convictions’ with ‘no real evidence’” and that military prosecutors “launder evidence derived from torture.” “You put the whole package together and it stinks,” Kuebler said.
Under a wiretapping bill set to be approved by the House, U.S. phone companies would receive immunity and “be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits.” As a “compromise,” the bill would also “allow a federal district court to dismiss a suit if the company was provided written assurances that Bush authorized their participation in the spy program and that it was legal.”
On the trail today: Barack Obama (D-IL) will meet with leaders of the AFL-CIO, Change to Win, and other unaffiliated unions to discuss the economy. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will survey the floods in Iowa.
The New York Times reports that there is currently a “shortage of ships used for deep-water offshore drilling,” meaning that any attempts to lift the offshore drilling ban would have little near-term effect. The “world’s existing drill-ships are booked solid for the next five years,” and shipbuilders have raised prices since last year “by as much as $100 million a vessel to about half a billion dollars.”
“Former Gov. Jeb Bush, who negotiated the federal-state compromise to keep drilling away from Florida shores, said in an email to the Miami Herald” that he now supports drilling off Florida with restrictions.
At a gay-rights panel discussion at the Center for American Progress Action Fund last week, Sen. Gordon Smith (R-OR) linked the issues of polygamy and same-sex marriage. He has since apologized. “My remarks referenced a point in time when a few of my ancestors were persecuted for not adhering to that belief,” Smith said. “It was an unfortunate reference, and I apologize for making it.”
“Six years and $16.5 billion later, the U.S. still lacks a solid plan to create a self-sustaining security force in Afghanistan,” according to an audit by the Government Accountability Office.
In an increasingly gloomy assessment of the U.S. economy, chief executives polled by Business Roundtable “expect employment at their companies to decline in coming months and rising costs to pinch their profits.” The group “whose outlook is usually relatively upbeat, has become pessimistic amid mounting energy prices and housing-market worries.”
And finally: Last week, President Bush made headlines while in Germany for praising the country’s asparagus after a dinner with Chancellor Angela Merkel. “The German asparagus are fabulous,” Bush said. In response, Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) and Rep. Doc Hastings (R-WA) have had 10 pounds of Washington state asparagus delivered to the White House. “Mr. President, if you liked the German variety, we guarantee you will love the Washington state variety,” Murray and Hastings wrote in their letter. Murray added that it is the “best in the world.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Iraq Deal With US To End Immunity For Foreign Contractors
The US has accepted that foreign contractors in Iraq will no longer have immunity from Iraqi law under a new security agreement now under negotiation, says the Iraqi Foreign Minister, Hoshyar Zebari. Mr Zebari said that if there was a further incident like the one in which 17 Iraqis were killed by workers from the Blackwater security company in Baghdad last September, the Iraqis would arrest and punish the contractors held responsible.
The American concession would have a serious effect in Iraq, where there are an estimated 160,000 foreign contractors, many of them heavily armed security personnel. The contractors, who outnumber the 145,000-strong US Army in the country, have become a vital if much-resented part of the military machine in Iraq.
Other shifts in US proposals being discussed are a joint Iraqi-American centre to co-ordinate operations against terrorists and the transfer of prisoners, currently numbering 21,000, to Iraqi custody. The Iraqi side has been investigating how other Sofas operate in other countries such as Japan, South Korea and Turkey, but in none of these are US troops involved in combat or the target of armed resistance.
Mr Zebari says Iraq still needs US troops’ support. Its security forces number 600,000 but lack training and logistical support. Mr Maliki’s government is more confident since it sent forces into Basra, Sadr City and Mosul earlier this year but it is not clear if they would have held their ground without US firepower, air support and advice.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/18/9704/
The only upside to this is Iraq will be able to prosecute US Contactors for breaking the law. This new security agreement is being worded so that it does not become a bilateral treaty with long-term commitments, because then it would require Senate approval. Which in my opinion, with 58 military bases and a unspecified amount of military soldiers that sounds like a long-term commitment to me. Plus with the UN mandate expiring in December, this new agreement, if signed, would legitimize the US invasion and control of Iraq.
What I can not rap my mind around; is how Maliki could even consider (or even entertain the thought) of allowing the US to continue being in his country after an illegal invasion. This Prime Minister would be traitor to his own people if he enters into an agreement with Bush’s new concessions. Hence, Bush & Cheney would get exactly what they invaded Iraq for and that is Oil, Profiteering and Iraqi Air Space.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:02 am‘Flight Risk’ and ‘Dangerous’ — But Judge Loosens Bail For CEO
Just days after a convicted CEO faked his own death and fled to avoid prison, a federal judge on Long Island reduced bail conditions for a separate CEO accused of a massive fraud even though prosecutors maintain he is a “flight risk” and “dangerous.” Judge Joanna Seybert reduced restrictive bail conditions for David Brooks, who ran DHB Industries — a company that sold bulletproof vests to the military. Brooks is accused of looting funds and committing securities fraud to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Prosecutors said he then funneled his ill-gotten gains to accounts overseas.
Even though Seybert called Brooks a “danger to the community” because of past threats he allegedly made, she agreed to loosen his home confinement. Her new order allows Brooks to leave his Manhattan home unescorted between the hours of 9 a.m. and 10 p.m. His reduced bail conditions come just days after convicted Bayou hedge fund CEO Samuel Israel fled. U.S. marshals said Israel faked his own death, pretending to jump off the Bear Mountain Bridge. Marshals and FBI agents are looking for Israel who is now believed to be on the run in an RV/motor-home type vehicle.
Federal Judge Colleen McMahon in White Plains had allowed Israel to turn himself in unescorted to the Federal Bureau of Prisons to begin serving his 20-year sentence. Israel never showed.
http://www.wnbc.com/investigations/16634682/detail.html
These men are criminals and the judges trust them to be honest now, why???? What about “flight risk” do they not understand.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:03 amLet the Asparagus Wars begin!
June 19th, 2008 at 9:07 amSurvey suggests U.S. research misconduct is common
Research misconduct at U.S. institutions may be more common than previously suspected, with 9 percent of scientists saying in a new survey that they personally had seen fabrication, falsification or plagiarism. Thirty-seven percent of cases of suspected misconduct were never reported to the institution involved for investigation, perhaps due to fear of reprisals for turning in a colleague or a desire to protect the flow of research money. The findings come at a time of concern among U.S. lawmakers and others about research integrity in the United States and abroad, financial conflicts of interest by scientists who get paid by drug companies, and study results being warped by the influence of pharmaceutical industry research funding.
For example, U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley accuses prominent Harvard University psychiatrist Dr. Joseph Biederman and others of failing to fully disclose payments from drug companies. The findings indicate that more than 2,300 cases of misconduct may be occurring each year at U.S. research sites. Examples of misconduct reported by the survey respondents include changing data to “improve” findings, submitting false data to win a grant and misrepresenting findings.
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1846626420080618?pageNumber=3&virtualBrandChannel=0
Big Pharma companies getting in the way of honest research and unbiased results, they are not looking out for the consumers of their products. Pharmaceutical industry needs to stop putting profits before consumer well being and health.
Boeing victory: GAO calls for new bids for Air Force tanker
The Government Accountability Office concluded Wednesday that the Air Force made “significant errors” in awarding a $35 billion contract for aerial-refueling tankers to a team that included a European aerospace company. In a major victory for Boeing, the GAO recommended that the Air Force reopen the competition and rewrite contract specifications.
“Our review of the record led us to conclude that the Air Force had made a number of significant errors that could have affected the outcome of what was a close competition between Boeing and Northrop Grumman,” the GAO said. “We therefore sustain the Boeing protest.” But some lawmakers on Capitol Hill suggested the GAO decision was such a “vindication” for Boeing that it ought to be awarded the contract outright without a new contract competition.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/41450.html
I’m very happy about this news. The thought of sending a $35 billion contract to another country, what in the hell was the Air Force thinking?? I agree with many of the Senators they should just give the contract to Boeing after putting them through the process of protesting and attorney fees they have encurred.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:08 amLarry Sinclair was arrested after an appearance at the National Press club yesterday. Sinclair, who has a 27-year criminal record, held the press conference to continue spreading his unfounded rumors about Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL).
Hmm… arresting someone for whom a warrant has been issued…
that’s an intriguing idea…
you listening, Congress?
June 19th, 2008 at 9:08 amSen. John McCain (R-AZ) will survey the floods in Iowa.
He’ll also hold a $1,000 a plate fundraiser here in MN. Our Boy King Governor, Tim Pawlenty, will be following him around like a lost puppy.
McCrash wants to be viewed as a ‘common man’, hence the leisure shirts, baseball cap & sunglasses.
He’s anything but common. If he & his wife are literally worth hundreds of millions, why is he charging $1,000 a plate to reach out to the ‘common man’?
More hypocrisy. More lies. More Flips. More Flops.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:09 amHouse leaders in both parties struck a deal on a long-overdue war supplemental bill that includes billions for emergency flood relief, an extension of unemployment benefits and expanded GI Bill college benefits for veterans.
I will be so happy once the Bush Crime Family is gone. It is ridiculous that the Democrats have to attach needed legislation like extended unemployment benefits in a failing economy, emergency food relief and the GI college bill to an obscene appropriation for the Occupation of Iraq.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:12 am“It would also provide about $165 billion to the Pentagon to fund military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan for about a year.”
Anybody want to bet that before the year is out there will be at least one more *war* funding bill?
June 19th, 2008 at 9:14 amOpening offshore waters to drilling will alleviate the price at the pump by 1.8 cents / gallon…in 20 years.
Oil companies own drilling / mineral rights to 93 million acres…most of which aren’t being drilled.
Let’s insure big oil drills what they have before giving them a green light on destroying America’s coastal shelves. They’re playing a waiting game, and won’t drill while prices keep rising, because they figure they would ‘lose potential profits’.
Monopolistic collusive practices are killing our economy. Bush is leading the way for big oil to reap even more profits before he leaves office. Say NO to offshore drilling!
June 19th, 2008 at 9:15 amWhat did we miss?
June 19th, 2008 at 9:15 amThe air tanker contract will be overturned. Looks like Boeing won. The fix is on!!
From Juan Cole:
The Great Torture Scandal
a snippet-
Recent reports, taken together, provide a chilling glimpse of a vast torture operation, deliberately planned out by serial torturers in Bush’s White House and possibly by the president himself.
Torture – the American Way?
June 19th, 2008 at 9:16 amI am so disappointed that the Democrats in Congress couldn’t stand up to Bush and do anything to stop the Occupation of Iraq. Considering the obscene amount of this appropriation bill, it is obvious that there is money in it to continue building permanent bases. The least the Democrats could have done would have been to strip out any money for these bases.
The Democrats have all along had the way to stop this madness. All they needed to do was to say that they would no longer fund the private contractors in Iraq. They should have said the only money they will appropriate would be to feed, cloth and house the troops and to provide them with the necessary equipment. But, the contractors would no longer be funded. Since Bush has contracted out so much of the Occupation, he would have been forced to bring the troops home. And, the public could not have said that Congress was not funding the troops.
Oh well, now it’s up to Obama to fix this mess.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:17 amLarry Sinclair was arrested after an appearance at the National Press club yesterday.
That is too funny. You can’t say that he didn’t ask for it! BTW, did you hear what proof he has that what he says is true? He has a couple of phone numbers. He said it’s now up to the Press to prove his contentions based on those phone numbers. That’s too funny. Just like our trolls here. They say something outrageous here and then they tell us it’s up to us to prove it’s not true. Oh yeah…Sinclair’s attorney showed up in a kilt. This reason for wearing it was that his sexual organs are too big to be comfortable in pants! What a pair, Sinclair and his disbarred attorney are.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:20 am“the Bush administration’s war crimes system ‘is designed to get criminal convictions’ with ‘no real evidence’”
Their other war crimes system is designed to start conflicts with no real evidence.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:21 amIn an interview with the New York Times, Lt. Cmdr. William C. Kuebler, the military lawyer for Guantánamo detainee Omar Khadr, said “the Bush administration’s war crimes system ‘is designed to get criminal convictions’ with ‘no real evidence’” and that military prosecutors “launder evidence derived from torture.”
Well duh. If they had any evidence against any of those guys in Guantanamo, they would have prosecuted them by now.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:22 amM. Collins: 911 Prediction Revealed at Lindauer Competency Hearing in New York City
Michael Collins
“Scoop” Independent New
Washington, D.C.
(June 17, NYC). A surprise development occurred at today’s hearing in the case of Susan Lindauer versus the United States. A long time associate of the accused, associate professor of computer science at Toronto’s York University, Parke Godfrey, Ph.D., testified that Susan Lindauer predicted an attack on the United States in the southern part of Manhattan. According to his testimony, she said that the attack would be very similar to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. Godfrey said that Lindauer made the prediction on several occasions, one as late as August 2001.
The testimony occurred in a hearing on Lindauer’s competence to stand trial held before U.S. District Court Judge Loretta Preska, Southern District of New York, in lower Manhattan. On March 11, 2004, Lindauer was arrested for acting as an “unregistered agent” for the nation of Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion. Prosecutors have delayed the trial for over four years claiming Lindauer was delusional for asserting that she was a U.S. intelligence asset over a period of nine years, including the period covered by the indictment.
This was Lindauer’s first real opportunity to argue her competence to stand trial and deny the delusions claimed by court psychiatrists. Lindauer asserts that she had been a U.S. intelligence asset since working on the Lockerbie case and subsequent antiterrorism efforts.
Appearing for the defense, Dr. Godfrey testified under oath that Lindauer told him of her specific concerns about an attack on the United States. She told him that a “massive” attack would occur in the southern part of Manhattan, involving airplanes and possibly a nuclear weapon. The witness said that she mentioned this in the year 2000, which coincided with the Lockerbie trial. And then in 2001, Lindauer mentioned the anticipated attack in the spring, 2001 and then August 2001. Godfrey said, at that time, Lindauer thought an attack was “imminent” and that it would complete what was started in the 1993 bombing (the original World Trade Center bombing).
Read all of this posting:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/M–Collins–911-Prediction-by-Michael-Collins-080618-302.html
**WOW! Times must be getting really close to the neo-con endgame. Why is it just now coming out after 4 years? And WHERE IS THE SCOTT MCCLELLAN SPIN????? Things just seem very calm in the neo-con camp! I wonder what will hit the fan ovr the next couple of days.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:24 amUnder a wiretapping bill set to be approved by the House, U.S. phone companies would receive immunity and “be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits.”
We all need to inundate Steney Hoyer and Nancy Pelosi with outrage regarding this. There is no reason why they have to do this now. All they need to do is to extend the current bill until Obama takes office and then let the new Democratic congress deal with it.
Maybe Harry Reid will show some balls and withhold the bill from going back to the Senate. If the House caves, that will be our only hope.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:24 amThe real purpose for the war. Keep in mind that these companies will need security while exploring and drilling in Iraq. The long-term security agreement sought by the Bush administration will ensure security…by OUR troops, and with our tax dollars.
BAGHDAD — Four Western oil companies are in the final stages of negotiations this month on contracts that will return them to Iraq, 36 years after losing their oil concession to nationalization as Saddam Hussein rose to power.
In an interview with Newsweek last fall, the former chief executive of Exxon, Lee Raymond, praised Iraq’s potential as an oil-producing country and added that Exxon was in a position to know. “There is an enormous amount of oil in Iraq,” Mr. Raymond said. “We were part of the consortium, the four companies that were there when Saddam Hussein threw us out, and we basically had the whole country.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/world/middleeast/19iraq.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
June 19th, 2008 at 9:26 amLAW SCHOOL TO ORGANIZE BUSH WAR CRIMES TRIAL
A conference to plan the prosecution of President Bush and other high administration officials for war crimes will be held September 13-14 at the Massachusetts School of Law at Andover .
“This is not intended to be a mere discussion of violations of law that have occurred,” said convener Lawrence Velvel, dean and cofounder of the school. “It is, rather, intended to be a planning conference at which plans will be laid and necessary organizational structures set up, to pursue the guilty as long as necessary and, if need be, to the ends of the Earth.” “We must try to hold Bush administration leaders accountable in courts of justice,” Velvel said. “And we must insist on appropriate punishments, including, if guilt is found, the hangings visited upon top German and Japanese war-criminals in the 1940s.”
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/34171
I very nice idea in theory, if only it would become reality.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:26 amSen. John McCain (R-AZ) will survey the floods in Iowa.
A little too late John. Obama was there days ago helping fill sandbags.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:27 amGerman asparagus? Jeez, he shoulda tried the bratwurst and beer! Those’re two of many gastronomic excellences of Germany, not asparagus. Germans also make great pretzels. He could have eaten some while riding one of the famous Holsteiner stallions.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:28 am“Under a wiretapping bill set to be approved by the House, U.S. phone companies would receive immunity and “be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits.” As a “compromise,” the bill would also “allow a federal district court to dismiss a suit if the company was provided written assurances that Bush authorized their participation in the spy program and that it was legal.”
And our founders are screaming at us from the grave. Our entire government is against the people right now. Unbelievable.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:29 am“Former Gov. Jeb Bush, who negotiated the federal-state compromise to keep drilling away from Florida shores, said in an email to the Miami Herald” that he now supports drilling off Florida with restrictions.
He supported drilling all along. But, since he was the governor of Florida he had to pretend he didn’t to keep his job. This is not going to play well in Florida. Obama is already ahead of McCain in Florida and he hasn’t even campaigned there yet. Now that Jeb and John McCain have both said they support off-shore drilling, Obama’s lead in Florida can only get bigger.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:29 amAt a gay-rights panel discussion at the Center for American Progress Action Fund last week, Sen. Gordon Smith (R-OR) linked the issues of polygamy and same-sex marriage. He has since apologized.
If the Democrats have any hope of beating Smith in Oregon, they need to start advertising now. I see a Gordon Smith advertisement every night on MSNBC. He even found a couple of “Democrats” who say they are voting for Smith because he is so fair and has a mind of his own. Unfortunately he only has a mind of his own for a year or so before he is up for re-election. The rest of the time he’s pretty much lock-step with Bush.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:31 amOn the trail today: Barack Obama (R-AZ) will meet with leaders of the AFL-CIO
Dang, when did Obama switch parties!?!? I guess he’s the Repugs best chance for a win in November…..
June 19th, 2008 at 9:34 amUnder a wiretapping bill set to be approved by the House, U.S. phone companies would receive immunity and “be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits.”
Are Nancy and Steney scared of the SHRUB still,or what.This is an outrage the telecoms deserve jail time right along with the SHRUB and his crime family,just let the old bill come back around.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:35 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says
June 19th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Now that Jeb and John McCain have both said they support off-shore drilling, Obama’s lead in Florida can only get bigger.
__________________________________________
Unless for some reason Floridians LIKE the idea of a “touch of accent sludge” lining their otherwise pristine white sandy beaches…
June 19th, 2008 at 9:35 amDvlsAdvocat Says
June 19th, 2008 at 9:34 am
On the trail today: Barack Obama (R-AZ) will meet with leaders of the AFL-CIO
Dang, when did Obama switch parties!?!? I guess he’s the Repugs best chance for a win in November…..
___________________________________________________
He apparently switched states as well. Hope McCain doesn’t mind the competition for “favorite son” status…
June 19th, 2008 at 9:37 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says
June 19th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Now that Jeb and John McCain have both said they support off-shore drilling, Obama’s lead in Florida can only get bigger.
__________________________________________
Unless for some reason Floridians LIKE the idea of a “touch of accent sludge” lining their otherwise pristine white sandy beaches…
They can visit the beaches in Texas for the great experience of tar balls leaving spots on their legs, feet, swimming suits, towels, etc.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:40 amBelieve me, I’m as outraged as you are, however this sentence gave me a moment of pause:
As a “compromise,” the bill would also “allow a federal district court to dismiss a suit if the company was provided written assurances that Bush authorized their participation in the spy program and that it was legal.”
I’m not going to hold my breath…but if such documentation were provided, and the companies are granted immunity i.e. they did something wrong/illegal but they’re getting off due to circumstances…that documentation could be used as evidence of clear violations of law by the Bush Administration. Just saying, it gets into the record that Bush said it was ok for phone companies to break the law. Could be useful.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:43 amLarry Sinclair was arrested after an appearance at the National Press club yesterday.
I expected him to get busted for the Pueblo,Co. charges, so Delaware wanted him too.
hahahahahaha
June 19th, 2008 at 9:43 amAnd rogerse banks another 10 cents.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:46 amUnder a wiretapping bill set to be approved by the House, U.S. phone companies would receive immunity and “be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits.” As a “compromise,” the bill would also “allow a federal district court to dismiss a suit if the company was provided written assurances that Bush authorized their participation in the spy program and that it was legal.”
This goes against everything this country is supposed to stand for. Immunity from the law because you have a note from the president is virtually the same as the president writing his own laws, completely bypassing the checks and balances that is the hallmark of our government.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 19th, 2008 at 9:50 amHey Roger2,
June 19th, 2008 at 9:50 amIs there any method to your madness, or are just totally and completely nuckin’ futz??
Mr Zebari says Iraq still needs US troops’ support. Its security forces number 600,000 but lack training and logistical support. Mr Maliki’s government is more confident since it sent forces into Basra, Sadr City and Mosul earlier this year but it is not clear if they would have held their ground without US firepower, air support and advice.
They don’t lack training and logistical support, they lack the will to defend their country. We have been training their security forces for 5 years now and they don’t have any kind of a working, functional system for defending themselves. The only way that is going to happen is if we leave.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:51 amralph the wonder llama Says:
And rogerse banks another 10 cents.
they can’t afford cash. they’re paying him off with these.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:54 amAnybody want to bet that before the year is out there will be at least one more *war* funding bill?
There may have to be. Obama may need one to get the funds to bring our troops home.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:55 am“Six years and $16.5 billion later, the U.S. still lacks a solid plan to create a self-sustaining security force in Afghanistan,” according to an audit by the Government Accountability Office.
When you think about it, it’s really Afghanistan’s fault. Everyone knows that it’s easier to create a self-sustaining security force when you country is built on top of an oil reserve.
/snark
June 19th, 2008 at 9:55 amupside99 Says:
Hey Roger2,
Is there any method to your madness, or are just totally and completely nuckin’ futz??
You gave him an either/or question. Now he will be hopelessly confused ( more than normal )
June 19th, 2008 at 9:56 amThe US has accepted that foreign contractors in Iraq will no longer have immunity from Iraqi law under a new security agreement now under negotiation,
Freedom
The only upside to this is Iraq will be able to prosecute US Contactors for breaking the law
If only, Freedom (thanks btw for all your contributions).
The US itself hasn’t even indicted any of its mercenaries (‘contractors’ would be civilian-duty personnel, not private paramilitary), having chosen to simply accept the mercenaries’ lawyers interpretations of US law as binding law.
In the few examples of just a simple investigation by the US and/or the Iraqis into claims of illegal actions the mercenaries in question have simply been returned to the US, out of reach of the Iraqis (and some of those have since returned to Iraq as employees of some other mercenary organization). Nor, to my knowledge, has the US Government even indicted any strictly civilian contractors that operated, or still operate, in Iraq.
Consider also the US treatment of its allies, notably the UK, in such relatively mundane events as friendly-fire incidents: During the invasion two ANG Warthog pilots misidentified a British motorized patrol and fired on them, killing 4.
The US not only refused to let them testify in England for the inquiry, they even refused to let them testify by video from the US.
Furthermore the US refused to release the gun camera tape and cockpit recordings for 4 years until they were somehow leaked to the UK press.
Given the “courtesy” afforded the British into a mere investigation, I imagine the US would be at least as uncooperative with the Iraqis, even, or perhaps especially, in a case involving US mercenaries.
The only way I can see the US agreeing to rescinding immunity is if they dictate the terms under which it applies, where the devil will be in the details—specific exclusions, vague wording and probably defining references to US legal precedents that they have invented absent judicial review or Congressional authority.
Remember, it is still the Bush Administration running the show, and look what they managed to do with ‘established’ US law.
The real test of this agreement, should it come to pass, will be the reaction of the mercenaries. If they start leaving then the agreement will have ‘teeth’, if they don’t then it will be a farce. Also of note would be which mercenary outfits leave (if any); if the Canadian Garda-World and the British Aegis leaves, but Blackwater, Caci and other US outfits stay, rest assured it will have been the US who has written the agreement in their favor, not the Iraqis, and it will be worthless.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:57 amAnd in other news, I don’t EVER want to hear another Fu(king troll tell me that liberals are in league with muslim extremists or that we want shari’a law, or that Blackwater is just dandy:
http://www.newsobserver.com/front/story/1112843.html
SERIOUSLY. IF YOU TROLLS READ THIS, I HOPE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY YOU SHOULD JUST STFU FROM HERE ON OUT AND LET THE ADULTS CLEAN UP THE MESS YOUR NEOCON CRIMINAL HEROES HAVE CREATED.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:57 amThe “world’s existing drill-ships are booked solid for the next five years,” and shipbuilders have raised prices since last year “by as much as $100 million a vessel to about half a billion dollars.”
And the oil companies who use their services on a daily basis knew this, before starting this little off-shore drilling “debate” in congress via their congressional mouthpieces. It was all a scam, and righties fell for it, in their typically panic-ed fashion.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:58 amBlackwater: Shoot First…That’s it, just shoot first. And oh yeah, we want Shari’a law to govern us…so long as it gets us out of a lawsuit.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:59 amLarry Sinclair was arrested after an appearance at the National Press club yesterday. Sinclair, who has a 27-year criminal record, held the press conference to continue spreading his unfounded rumors about Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL).
So arrogantly confident in their stranglehold by manipulation and influence is the Corporate Media that they can cavalierly parade such a mucus stain without fear of backlash from a benumbed and gullible public…funneled through the auspices of a ‘journalist’s’ social club, one founded on blatant racism and until as recently as 1970, sexism. Our pwned “press.”
Then they turn around and, for an encore, perform beatification for “good soldier” and showman Tim Russert who was a cheerleader for the Iraq war, replete with lopsided guest rosters and enough softballs to outfit several leagues.
When both bush and cheney, the worst war criminals in US history, offer warm tributes over your passing, you’re doing something wrong….
June 19th, 2008 at 10:11 amUnder a wiretapping bill set to be approved by the House, U.S. phone companies would receive immunity and “be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits.”
Goddammit, I’m just sick. The ONE THING the Dems have done right since taking Congress, and they’re just going to hand that victory right back to this incompetent idiot. We’ll never know the full extent of their criminality if this passes. I’ve already called my reps., but I’m sure it will be to no avail.
TO CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATIC LEADERS: YOU ARE COWARDS AND HYPOCRITES WHO HAVE SYSTEMATICALLY SOLD OUT THIS COUNTRY AND ITS PEOPLE TO TYRANTS FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL AND PARTY POWER. IF THIS BILL PASSES, YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE REPUBLICANS YOU CLAIM TO OPPOSE–YOU TOOK AN OATH OF OFFICE TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION; THIS PLAN EVISCERATES THAT DOCUMENT.
Call your Representatives and Senators, people. It appears the Dems are content to run out the clock on Dumbya, regardless of what sacrifices they have to make to do so.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:40 amIn an interview with the New York Times, Lt. Cmdr. William C. Kuebler, the military lawyer for Guantánamo detainee Omar Khadr, said “the Bush administration’s war crimes system ‘is designed to get criminal convictions’ with ‘no real evidence’” and that military prosecutors “launder evidence derived from torture.” “You put the whole package together and it stinks,” Kuebler said.
***********************************************************
Considering just how many people who’ve been on the inside of this travesty (currently or previously) have condemned it, I think it’s far to say that at least some of the criticism is justified. You know what they say…if ten people call you a good guy and one person calls you a jerk, you can probably afford to dismiss your critic as a crank. However, if ten people call you a jerk and one person calls you a good guy, that’s when anyone with any sense at all realizes that the criticism might have some credence.
Oh, wait…silly me! I don’t know how I could have forgotten that this is the Bush administration we’re talking about. Especially after the past seven-odd years, expecting them to even consider doing the sensible thing is patently absurd.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:48 am#46.Thank’s for posting…..I agree, let me add it has become painfuly clear in the past year and a half we have few real democrat’s in office and fewer representative’s willing to hold their oath of office to protect our constitution…Look’s like one big party of lier’s thieve’s,warmonger’s and enabeler’s to me…With the exception of Kucinich and a few other’s most in DC need to be jailed in both houses….It must be the water or maybe bank account’s….Blessings
June 19th, 2008 at 10:52 amImmunity likely for phone companies in spy bill
U.S. phone companies would be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits under an anti-terror spy measure that appears headed toward approval, congressional sources said on Wednesday.
House of Representatives Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer, a lead negotiator on the bill, said, “We’re very close to having an agreement,” and a House vote could come as early as Friday. (my emphasis)
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1828777720080618?loc=interstitialskip&pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
**A vote on immunity this Friday? The same day as Scott McClellan testifies? I am stil eaiting for the other shoe to drop with Scottie. I am waiting for anyone with the information grow a pair and give us another John Dean moment. The only problem with this scenario is that lawbreakers have to have some remore about what they have done and realize that we need the truth in all of this and we needed th truth yesterday.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:57 ameaiting=waiting
June 19th, 2008 at 10:57 amExcellent point. Years ago the world community rejected the “I was just following orders” defense at the Nuremburg War Crimes Tribunals.
Ben Fanklin once said we have a Republic, if we can keep it. Well, we’ve lost it. Only most people don’t know that yet.
As much as it might pain us to admit it, many comments by Hendler and MightyA were correct. Even with the Democrats in power, nothing has really changed. Bush’s wars have continued to be funded without restrictions. War crimes continue unabated. Impeachment is off the table.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:02 amI’m trying hard to believe that if Bush has no immunity after office, nothing he’s signed ‘on the side’ will hold up in court.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:06 amgood article about “curveball” (the patron saint of rw trolls everywhere) here.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:16 am#52..All of them will be protected from prosacution for any crime’s once they leave office, thank’s to the patriot act and it’s amendment’s…They all get to skate, free pass and no accountability….I’m getting sicker by the day at what this country has become and it went down with only one or two trying to save it…..Sad…Blessings…Peace.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:17 amUS military loses nuclear parts in fresh embarrassment: report
LONDON (AFP) – The US military has lost hundreds of sensitive nuclear missile components, in the latest embarrassment for The Pentagon, the Financial Times reported in its online version Thursday.
Citing US officials familiar with a Pentagon report, the British daily said the US Air Force could not account for many sensitive components previously in its nuclear inventory. One official put the number at over 1,000, it said.
The latest incident comes after blunders which saw live nuclear warheads transported over US skies, and an accidental shipment of nuclear triggers to Taiwan.
Anybody feel safer yet?
June 19th, 2008 at 11:27 amLarry Sinclair was arrested after an appearance at the National Press club yesterday. Sinclair, who has a 27-year criminal record, held the press conference to continue spreading his unfounded rumors about Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL). He was “charged as a fugitive from justice” after 2 US Marshals presented him with a warrant from the state of Delaware.
BWAAAHAHAHAHAH!
Hey, Daryll! Wanna go minister to your butt buddy Larry in DC jail?
June 19th, 2008 at 11:28 amYou work right around the corner, right>?
Money can’t buy this kind of karma!
At 10 AM eastern time I lost my internet and phone service. Comcast reset my modem and I got internet back but Comcast said ALL phone service they provide in Florida is down because of the storms in the state. Are there any other Comcast phone customers outside of Florida with phone troubles this morning?
June 19th, 2008 at 11:31 amOn the trail today, Happy Trails!
June 19th, 2008 at 11:36 amObama leads electoral race 344/194
#57 – The weather here today has been pretty yucky
June 19th, 2008 at 11:40 amOn the Boeing victory:
Freedom: The thought of sending a $35 billion contract to another country, what in the hell was the Air Force thinking??
It’s not that simple.
There were only two possible contenders for the new Tanker contract; Boeing and Airbus (the Russians haven’t made a new airliner/commercial cargo plane for about 30 years).
Boeing was caught bribing the USAF procurement officer for the project, so the only option then was the Airbus, by default.
The Airbus beats the Boeing marginally on range, loses marginally on speed, but has a 20% higher fuel capacity. The Airbus is also a newer, more advanced design by 10 years. Airbus also ran a live refueling demonstration of their tanker built to the USAF specs whilst the Boeing proposal was still on paper.
In manufacturing terms Airbus is no more a “foreign company” than Boeing—both have manufacturing facilities all over the world in other nations, and both subcontract to companies all over the world for specific components (avionics, undercarriage, engines etc.) Airbus’s bid included significant US-based manufacture of the plane, as one would expect.
Airbus is financially tied to EADS (European Aerospace and Defense Systems) which is really a transnational financial and manufacturing consortium.
Given your quote, you should be disturbed to know that about 50% of the MRAPs (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles) provided to the US Army and USMC are made by BAE Systems (an EADS partner)—because the US suppliers couldn’t meet the demand. The new ‘Lakota’ medium/light helicopter that is replacing the Hughes 500 and Bell OH -58 Kiowa (Jet-Ranger) is from Euro-Copter, also an EADS partner. The Accuracy International .50 caliber sniper rifle used by US Special Forces is British, and it is used because it is the best in the world. The MIA2 Abrams Tank smoothbore main barrel is a licensed design from Rheinmetall (because it is the best in the world). The Abrams also uses DU enhanced Chobham Armor (also from EADS). The standard US Army M119 105-mm howitzer is also from BAE (originally from the Royal Ordinance Factory and also the best of its type). The US Coast Guard uses HH-65s, the French-made Aerospatiale Dauphin. The US Navy replaced all its Rockwell T-2 “Buckeye” jet trainers with the T-45 ‘Goshawk’—made by BAE. And to top it all off, when Obama becomes President he will be flying around in a new Marine Corps One helicopter, not in a US-designed/built Sikorsky CH-3 Sea-King, but in a European EH-101 Merlin.
This list of foreign-sourced military hardware is by no means complete, but I trust you will find it informative.
Now EADS-North America, like any military industrial conglomerate, isn’t averse to making political contributions. Good old ‘maverick’ John McCain spoke out against Boeing when their bribery scheme surfaced, and so backed Airbus (the only alternative, remember?). Now from what I’ve been able to find-out McCain’s support for the Airbus tanker doesn’t seem to be tied to their contributions to his campaign—there doesn’t actually seem to be a cause and effect there.
Both Boeing and Airbus are facing a commercial market that’s shrinking much faster than they might have anticipated a few years ago when all this started—thanks to the gas price crisis. After crowing about Airbus’ A-380 delays, Boeing’s 787 DreamLiner has been equally delayed with similar problems (but importantly Airbus has still been first to market, though I’m not expert enough to hazard the future successes of these two quite different planes), but they both now clearly have an even larger interest in the Tanker contract than just its size—it would mean a lot to their respective survival. The contract itself may also be scaled down; after all, large air refueling tankers are for long-range combat missions as is the US going to really engage in those in the foreseeable future?
On paper (as far as I can tell) the Airbus is a better deal, but there are plenty of factors that have to be weighed (maintenance, projected use etc) that I sure as heck can’t judge, never mind the politics. The “foreign” argument provides no overarching reason that Boeing should be awarded the contract.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:41 amRUCerious Says:
BWAAAHAHAHAHAH!
Hey, Daryll! Wanna go minister to your butt buddy Larry in DC jail?
You work right around the corner, right>?
Money can’t buy this kind of karma!
Daryll had promised Larry was going to provide real proof of his charges about that dark-lipped drug-using gay candidate . . . but Daryll also promised us that Hucklebee was our next President. There’s some real interference in his direct line to God, apparently.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:41 am#57 St. Augustine:
I have ComCast Cable/Internet in NJ and stprms certainly afect the TV, but interestingly not my Internet. My phone provider is not ComCastd–that way no-one entity controls my communications, nor do all communication lines fail at the same time.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:53 amGUMMITCH:
I’m sure glad I’m not using Daryll’s god’s word to buy stocks…
June 19th, 2008 at 12:00 pmFreedom Rebel Says:
Iraq Deal With US To End Immunity For Foreign Contractors
Wanna bet any sleazeball blackwater mutts in jeopardy are long out of the country prior to this taking effect?
June 19th, 2008 at 12:07 pm#41 5th Estate Says:
The US has accepted that foreign contractors in Iraq will no longer have immunity from Iraqi law under a new security agreement now under negotiation,
Freedom
The only upside to this is Iraq will be able to prosecute US Contactors for breaking the law
If only, Freedom (thanks btw for all your contributions).
The only way I can see the US agreeing to rescinding immunity is if they dictate the terms under which it applies, where the devil will be in the details—specific exclusions, vague wording and probably defining references to US legal precedents that they have invented absent judicial review or Congressional authority.
Remember, it is still the Bush Administration running the show, and look what they managed to do with ‘established’ US law.
The real test of this agreement, should it come to pass, will be the reaction of the mercenaries. If they start leaving then the agreement will have ‘teeth’, if they don’t then it will be a farce. Also of note would be which mercenary outfits leave (if any); if the Canadian Garda-World and the British Aegis leaves, but Blackwater, Caci and other US outfits stay, rest assured it will have been the US who has written the agreement in their favor, not the Iraqis, and it will be worthless.
Good Morning 5th Estate :)
Sorry to be away had to take care of few things..
I agree with all of your points. The details of the agreement pertaining to the prosecution of the contractors will be the sticking point with the Iraqi government. Too many of the citizens are very outraged by the deaths of the 17 people that went unpunished.
The Bush administration I agree will probably put in exclusions in this agreement. Even though I don’t have complete faith in the Iraqi government, with all the corruption that has been going on. I believe they will hold firm on many issues, and make sure that there are not too many loopholes in which our government and the contractors can slide right through.
The reason I think that is because they haven’t caved in yet to Bush’s demands so far. Plus they have to save face with the Iraqi people and I believe the end result to be a serious uprising if they didn’t push this issue. It will be interesting to see how tough the negotations will be over this, personally I’m amazed Bush even made that major concession. But he wants that Oil and Iraqi Air Space so bad I think he will probably do anything to get it.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pmFreedom Rebel Says:
Boeing victory: GAO calls for new bids for Air Force tanker
I’m very happy about this news. The thought of sending a $35 billion contract to another country, what in the hell was the Air Force thinking?? I agree with many of the Senators they should just give the contract to Boeing after putting them through the process of protesting and attorney fees they have encurred.
Wasn’t Grampy McRibs instrumental in the awarding of this contract?
June 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pmUnder a wiretapping bill set to be approved by the House, U.S. phone companies would receive immunity and “be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits.” As a “compromise,” the bill would also “allow a federal district court to dismiss a suit if the company was provided written assurances that Bush authorized their participation in the spy program and that it was legal.”
This is no “compromise”. This is CAPITULATION!!!
See Glenn Greenwald’s excellent blogging on this (here and here, as well as other columns).
Then Go do the right thing: GO SUPPORT ACT BLUE’S CAMPAIGN to stop this monstrosity!
Cheers,
June 19th, 2008 at 12:15 pmLarry Sinclair was arrested after an appearance at the National Press club yesterday.
This totally made my day.
8-)
June 19th, 2008 at 12:22 pm#69 5th Estate….Guess I missed the bribary info on Boeing, do you have a link to the story?…Thank’s….Blessings
June 19th, 2008 at 12:38 pmSorry, hit the wrong key, should be #60 above…
June 19th, 2008 at 12:42 pmWitchyOne here’s the link
Air Force, Boeing scandal
June 19th, 2008 at 1:01 pm#60 5th Estate Says:
On the Boeing victory:
Freedom: The thought of sending a $35 billion contract to another country, what in the hell was the Air Force thinking??
It’s not that simple.
There were only two possible contenders for the new Tanker contract; Boeing and Airbus (the Russians haven’t made a new airliner/commercial cargo plane for about 30 years).
Boeing was caught bribing the USAF procurement officer for the project, so the only option then was the Airbus, by default.
Only 60% of the work is going to be in the US if Northrop Grumman gets to keep this contract. Boeing however has 9,000 people whose jobs are depending on this project, last I heard.
Plus add to that sensitive military research and development would be in the hands of a company that is foreign owned. I agree that most of it will be done in the US but still do we really want vital information in the hands of another country?
Because of the scandal with Boeing the Air Force modified or changed their critieria so that Northrop’s larger Tanker would be in the running and have two bidders. Plus the tanker is actual going to be more expensive for the Air Force to operate and it weighs 100,000 lbs more than Boeing. Which means there are less places to put the beast, so to speak.
Have a great day 5th Estate ;)
June 19th, 2008 at 1:03 pm#64 Exit Stage Left Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
Iraq Deal With US To End Immunity For Foreign Contractors
Wanna bet any sleazeball blackwater mutts in jeopardy are long out of the country prior to this taking effect?
Good point. Well there is always Interpol to track them down.
Good day Exit Stage Left :)
June 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pm#66 Exit Stage Left Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
Boeing victory: GAO calls for new bids for Air Force tanker
I’m very happy about this news. The thought of sending a $35 billion contract to another country, what in the hell was the Air Force thinking?? I agree with many of the Senators they should just give the contract to Boeing after putting them through the process of protesting and attorney fees they have encurred.
Wasn’t Grampy McRibs instrumental in the awarding of this contract?
The last one in 2005 I believe. When there was a big scandal. A former senior Air Force official went to prison, as did Boeing’s chief financial officer. Boeing was fined 600 million dollars also. Another day of corruption under the Bush Administration.
Have a good day Exit Stage Left:)
June 19th, 2008 at 1:10 pmFreedom: I believe they [the Iraqis] will hold firm on many issues…
( WHAT? You have things to do outside of posting at TP?! I am shocked! :D )
Yup, I agree with that and the rest of your points. Though Maliki’s government isn’t subject to the same kind of public pressures that the US Gov. is (yeah–I know; hilarious! ) I just can’t imagine they’d concede everything .
Re the Boeing/Airbus Tanker deal you are clearly much better-informed about the subject than I assumed from your (specifically quoted by me) reaction.
Plus add to that sensitive military research and development would be in the hands of a company that is foreign owned.
Umm…I don’t have the source handy right now, but the Pentagon contracted EADS to take care of the computer systems security last year (I think). As I said foreign ownership is not an overarching disqualification, though of course it is a factor.
It would appear to be back to square-one for Boeing and Airbus and the USAF. At this time I don’t know what Boeing is proposing now. If it’s a 787 version then Airbus has nothing new/equal to offer, or a if a 777 then Airbus has to go with an A340 derivative I guess. Either way the airplanes on offer then are much more distinct than before.
Frankly all this hoo-hah is working out quite well in one respect: military policy and needs are going to change in 2009 and I’d rather have the Dems (in general) involved in a $35 billion contract rather than the current administration, and I’d also trust the GAO’s influence on the decision more as well (assuming a reduction in partisan political influence). IMHO the GAO is one of those Government instituions that keeps my faith in Government,
Anywhoo…it’s a great pleasure to correspond with Freedom, and I hope the rest of the regulars get something out of this exchange too, despite it being rather tangential.
My best regards to you .
June 19th, 2008 at 2:45 pmThank’s RUCerious for the link..I had missed that all together..Guess I have been to busy with all the crap in this administration since day one and some stuff just float’s by me….Thank’s again….Blessings
June 19th, 2008 at 2:48 pmFreedom Rebel Says
A short sighted view about the Boeing – Northrop Grumman deal. Most of the NG money will stay in the US, and there will actually be more, or just as many jobs created from NG as from Boeing. And the aircraft is more flexible and a newer design.
The real problem is that now, because of our chauvinism, European companies will stop buying from the US, as they have in the past. US contracting law requires the NATO countriies be treated like US companies when contesting for contracts in both spheres. What you are really saying is that you would rather the money goes to Boeing than to other US companies who will lose in the long run.
Overall, the US will lose many contracts in Europe, and cause much ill will. Not that Chauvinists give a crap.
June 19th, 2008 at 2:59 pmI’m sure I’m not well versed on this Boeing thing since I just read about all the past deed’s but having said that wern’t the guilty partie;s held accountable.? Think I read they were….Has Boeing cleaned up their act.?…From the recent view’s of Patty Murry and other’s it seemed Boeing was not given the same speck’s or a change in plan’s was allowed Airbus….Bigge tanker mean’s bigger air strip’s ect;…What’s wrong with wanting 40,000 plus job’s to stay here.?..Just asking question’s….Any way it may be moot to even speculate since the Air Force can ignore the recent new’s and do as they please….Is this my tax dollar’s at work.?..If so how come the house and senate isn’t putting up a fuss,…Oh excuse me, this is bull shit bush world….Blessings
June 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm#75 5th Estate Says:
Frankly all this hoo-hah is working out quite well in one respect: military policy and needs are going to change in 2009 and I’d rather have the Dems (in general) involved in a $35 billion contract rather than the current administration, and I’d also trust the GAO’s influence on the decision more as well (assuming a reduction in partisan political influence). IMHO the GAO is one of those Government instituions that keeps my faith in Government,
Anywhoo…it’s a great pleasure to correspond with Freedom, and I hope the rest of the regulars get something out of this exchange too, despite it being rather tangential.
My best regards to you .
You are being far to kind. I wish I was more well versed on the issue, time is the factor. I have tried to keep on top of it as much as I could when I first posted about Northrop getting the award.
My best to you also :)
June 19th, 2008 at 3:26 pm#77 HighPlainsJoker Says:
Freedom Rebel Says
A short sighted view about the Boeing – Northrop Grumman deal. Most of the NG money will stay in the US, and there will actually be more, or just as many jobs created from NG as from Boeing. And the aircraft is more flexible and a newer design.
The real problem is that now, because of our chauvinism, European companies will stop buying from the US, as they have in the past. US contracting law requires the NATO countriies be treated like US companies when contesting for contracts in both spheres. What you are really saying is that you would rather the money goes to Boeing than to other US companies who will lose in the long run.
Overall, the US will lose many contracts in Europe, and cause much ill will. Not that Chauvinists give a crap.
You may very well be right HighPlainsJoker. I am looking at it from the perspective of what we so desperately need now in this country, that is jobs. My 9,000 quote for Boeing is only part of the project, they have not said how many other new jobs this will create if awarded this contract. Were as, Northrop is only going to have 60% of the project in the US.
Call me selfish, but this country has lost so many jobs overseas I don’t believe at this time we can afford to lose the 40% that will be taken outside the border. I know that Northrop is planning on building a plant in Alabama, I believe. It can be debated that if Northrop won the bid, Alabama, Ohio and North Carolina would see new jobs created. If Boeing wins then it is Washington and Kansas.
It could also hurt us in the future if it doesn’t go for Northrop, but it will cost the taxpayers more for that tanker in the long haul. It is much bigger than the Boeing one so to run it is going to be even more costly over time. Plus you have limited spaces that it can be put because of the l00,000 lbs difference. Bigger is not always better.
I am not saying I would rather see money go to Boeing versus other US companies, I’m saying I don’t want to lose the 40% that will go overseas which is what Northrop is expected to take away.
But I will give serious thought to your points and do even more research, have a good night :)
June 19th, 2008 at 5:21 pm#78
Witch1 Says:
I’m sure I’m not well versed on this Boeing thing since I just read about all the past deed’s but having said that wern’t the guilty partie;s held accountable.? Think I read they were….Has Boeing cleaned up their act.?…From the recent view’s of Patty Murry and other’s it seemed Boeing was not given the same speck’s or a change in plan’s was allowed Airbus….Bigge tanker mean’s bigger air strip’s ect;…What’s wrong with wanting 40,000 plus job’s to stay here.?..Just asking question’s….Any way it may be moot to even speculate since the Air Force can ignore the recent new’s and do as they please….Is this my tax dollar’s at work.?..If so how come the house and senate isn’t putting up a fuss,…Oh excuse me, this is bull shit bush world….Blessings
Good day Witchl, the parties were sent to jail one from Boeing and One former Senior Air Force Officer.
Patty Murray wants Boeing to get it because the Air Force changed the specs. Boeing had to pay alot of money protesting this and filing all the paperwork and attorneys fees. There are good arguments on both sides of the issue. I just didn’t want the 40% of the jobs going overseas if Northrop got awarded the contract. (that’s the short version)
June 19th, 2008 at 5:29 pmHave a great day Witch 1:)
Thank’s Freedom Rebel, sure don’t know how I missed this but then I was working full time and did not have a computer for personal use untill 2003..Most of my new’s was short clip’s and radio on my way home from hard day’s in a sweat shop..
Was given an old computer and then a newer one, learned a few basic’s and got back to being the activest I was when I was younger…Last fall I cashed in a tiny stock thingie and baught my new Mac book, still learning…Now that I am retired get lot’s of info from all kind’s of source’s, paper, cable and 50 plus email’s from all kind’s of site’s daily…Don’t post as much at TP as I did when they first started up, like the Zoo better…Less troll’s and a nice mix of music and good poster’s I now consider friend’s by extension and it’s like going home..They are good to me and over look my spelling flaw’s and baligerent attitude…LOL…Back at ya on having a great evening and thank’s for putting up with my little rant….Blessings
June 19th, 2008 at 6:23 pm